KillFiles Needed
Mediacetnews
we are trying our best to filter out abuse and spam.
For this reason I would be most grateful if you could send me a copy
of your killfiles
Preferably you have been using this group for around 4 years or
longer but any help is appreciated.
Please note that what you may consider annoying may simply be
discussion and some people can be moderated and not entirely
blocked, what we are trying to eliminate is posts with no value
and/or disturbing content. More killfiles will help our automated
cross referencing technology's ability to flag users who have been
killfiled by a large number of people.
Once again thank you and if you are willing please post files to my
email. My provider is hotmail and my username is mediacetnews
(Please adjust accordingly, I've presented it that way to avoid Spam
bots). Also if possible send the corresponding group name(s) with
the mail.
We hope to provide a service free from abusive or disturbing posts.
Regards and thanks
--
--------------------------------- --- -- -
Posted with NewsLeecher v3.9 Final
Web @ http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet
------------------- ----- ---- -- -
montana wildhack
You do not have my permission to repost my usenet posts.
Kathleen
> Hi, I am part of a group importing posts from Usenet onto the web,
> we are trying our best to filter out abuse and spam.
I do not want my usenet posts reposted to the web in order to "fluff
out" forums with low traffic. You do not have my permission to
duplicate or re-publish anything I've written.
And, no, you can't copy my killfile.
Shelly
"Kathleen" <khhfmde...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:dQO1l.20465$R43....@newsfe08.iad...
Ha! My news provider thoughtfully filtered out the original post.
Speaking of filtering spam... Alsotoo, what Kathleen and Montana said.
--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
Nessa
> Hi, I am part of a group importing posts from Usenet onto the web,
> we are trying our best to filter out abuse and spam.
you do not have permission to repost my usenet posts.
Judy
news:gi8e7e$8be$1...@news.motzarella.org...
>
> "Kathleen" <khhfmde...@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:dQO1l.20465$R43....@newsfe08.iad...
>> Mediacetnews wrote:
>>> Hi, I am part of a group importing posts from Usenet onto the web, we
>>> are trying our best to filter out abuse and spam.
>>
>> I do not want my usenet posts reposted to the web in order to "fluff out"
>> forums with low traffic. You do not have my permission to duplicate or
>> re-publish anything I've written.
>>
>> And, no, you can't copy my killfile.
>
> Ha! My news provider thoughtfully filtered out the original post.
> Speaking of filtering spam... Alsotoo, what Kathleen and Montana said.
Mine also filtered it.
But, no, you cannot repost, duplicate or republish anything I have written.
And, no, you cannot copy my killfile.
Judy
Melinda Shore
Shelly <she...@cat-sidh.net> wrote:
>Ha! My news provider thoughtfully filtered out the original post.
Mine, too. If yours didn't, look for a new one!
>Speaking of filtering spam... Alsotoo, what Kathleen and Montana said.
Not me. I could give a crap.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
Janet Boss
"Judy" <dou...@cableracer.com> wrote:
>
> Mine also filtered it.
>
> But, no, you cannot repost, duplicate or republish anything I have written.
>
> And, no, you cannot copy my killfile.
>
> Judy
ditto
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Shelly
news:gi8esi$jhm$1...@panix2.panix.com...
> Not me. I could give a crap.
To be clear, I only care to the extent that I really, really, *really*
hate web-based portals crapping up Teh Usernets. And besides, there are
more than enough of them already, damnit.
Nessa
and i only did it to be a pita. I'm all over the web...
Melinda Shore
Shelly <she...@cat-sidh.net> wrote:
>To be clear, I only care to the extent that I really, really, *really*
>hate web-based portals crapping up Teh Usernets. And besides, there are
>more than enough of them already, damnit.
Yeah, I don't hold with people taking my "work" (HAHAHA) and
trying to profit from it, particularly without asking.
I went to my friend Google and took a look at the original
posting and while I have no interest in participating in a
Usenet blacklist myself (although it would be really funny
if someone were able to sell Usenet access as "improved"
because Paul was filtered out) I actually don't have a
problem with what they're proposing.
Shelly
> Yeah, I don't hold with people taking my "work" (HAHAHA) and
> trying to profit from it, particularly without asking.
Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike???
> although it would be really funny
> if someone were able to sell Usenet access as "improved"
> because Paul was filtered out)
ISAGN!
> I actually don't have a
> problem with what they're proposing.
I did not go the extra mile to hunt up the original post.
sighthounds & siberians
<PleaseR...@None.com> wrote:
>Hi, I am part of a group importing posts from Usenet onto the web,
>we are trying our best to filter out abuse and spam.
Don't "import" any of my posts; you specifically do not have my
permission to repost anything written by me.
>For this reason I would be most grateful if you could send me a copy
>of your killfiles
No.
Mustang Sally
Mediasetnews
usenet!!
How many web based portals have actually bothered to ask for a killfile? How many care do you
think? Fair enough for the suspicion I guess, but you could have factored that into your responses.
Secondly, we run lots of highly moderated on-topic forums with many MILLIONS of users a month.
We've never imported usenet due to the terrible level of aggression. It takes a while to develop a
proper community. It's a shame that some of you have dug in so hard, that typically everything
external has to be *fluff*.
We just wanted to save more nonsense, flaming, aggression & noise from reaching the net. I guess
we could have done what the 1000s of others have done, and not bother to even consult the people
in the groups. Import in bulk, and plaster it all over the net. No thanks.
There can't be many, if any, forums on the net that have bothered to do this… cut us some slack.
On a personal note I am responsible for going through and moderating (by hand) posts from a number
of groups and this is one of the groups on my station . I am actually ‘living’, so to speak 5 years
ago, and have had to delete hundreds of posts by the puppywizard person and other trolls… I have
found your posts informative and well thought out, I've learnt a lot about the subject from the
posts here. I recommended this group as it was on-topic, helpful and mostly pleasant.
Anyway, sorry for any inconvenience.
Peter
Shelly
news:vsqdncuPqbpYRNrU...@giganews.com...
> There can't be many, if any, forums on the net that have bothered to
> do this… cut us some slack.
As I said in my previous post, I didn't even see your original post
because my news provider filtered it out. Therefore, all I had to go on
were a couple of sentences quoted by other people. If you're doing
something different (and more useful) than the hundred and one other web
portals that tap into Usenet, then great. Filtering out Howedy is a
public service I can get behind.
> On a personal note I am responsible for going through and moderating
> (by hand) posts from a number
> of groups and this is one of the groups on my station .
I haven't a clue how you're extracting posts. Unless you're importing
them somehow into a newsreader, other people's killfile recipes aren't
going to help you, because the way posts are filtered will vary from one
newreader to another. If you're doing it by hand via something like
Google, then I think you're SOL.
Melinda Shore
Mediasetnews <PeterW...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Thanks for all the heavy responses ...The programmers told
>me not to ask a question like this in usenet!!
Always listen to the programmers.
Mediasetnews
Well basically they tell me there's a number of automatic filtering methods, mainly swearing,
aggressive language, overly weird text patterns, etc. etc.. (I don't get all of it TBH) Perhaps
I've got the terminology 'KillFile' wrong (i'm new to usenet as you may have guessed)
Basically I noticed that a lot of the posts by trolls kept on going for a long time.. If you look
through Google Groups, it's full of Howedy noise.. So I fugured going into the 'future' and getting
a list of usernames (killfile?) from some quality posters, would mean that we could avoid even
importing anything by him (and others) in the first place. Therefore we can hand check the rest
of the posts, without having to pointlessly remove 1000s of his.
Incedentally what does SOL mean?
Thanks for the feeback :)
Shelly
> Well basically they tell me there's a number of automatic filtering
> methods, mainly swearing,
> aggressive language, overly weird text patterns, etc. etc.. (I don't
> get all of it TBH) Perhaps
> I've got the terminology 'KillFile' wrong (i'm new to usenet as you
> may have guessed)
I think that may be the case. There are a lot of different variables
that can be combined when filtering Usenet, but as far as I know, "weird
text patters" isn't one of them.
> Basically I noticed that a lot of the posts by trolls kept on going
> for a long time.. If you look
> through Google Groups, it's full of Howedy noise..
Yep.
> So I fugured going into the 'future' and getting
> a list of usernames (killfile?) from some quality posters,
That may sound like a good plan, but then you're at the mercy of other
people's definition of "quality." For example, I've got a few people
filtered who others here would not have a problem with, but those folks
irritated the hell out of me one time too many, so into the Bozo Bin
they went.
> would mean that we could avoid even
> importing anything by him (and others) in the first place. Therefore
> we can hand check the rest
> of the posts, without having to pointlessly remove 1000s of his.
It seems to me that if you've got programmers who can filter on swearing
and weird text patterns, they should be able to figure out how to filter
Howedy for you.
> Incedentally what does SOL mean?
Shit out of Luck. Which will probably get this post filtered.
Melinda Shore
Shelly <she...@cat-sidh.net> wrote:
>It seems to me that if you've got programmers who can filter on swearing
>and weird text patterns, they should be able to figure out how to filter
>Howedy for you.
Usenet 101: if it's cross-posted to more than two newsgroups
it's probably not relevant to any of them.
Shelly
> Usenet 101: if it's cross-posted to more than two newsgroups
> it's probably not relevant to any of them.
I set that rule up so long ago on my other machine (the one with the
real newsreader), that I had forgotten about it. It's a Very Good Rule.
However, I'd be careful mentioning it, because Some Crazy People might
start multi-posting.
Mediasetnews
Infact you do raise a good point it's quite an ambitious project! we're trying to work through
usenet and retain the relevant informative posts to the given subjects. In the case of this group
anything that's not about helping or caring for dogs, is out. there's a lot of experienced answers,
but sometimes the other stuff overwhelmes people who don't have the know-how to filter.. that's
basically what we're trying to do.
Re: being impersonal, that's why I figured we'd need quite a few lists, to cross reference the
users and only mark those blacklisted accross the board (Not a tekky but in this buisness you have
to know a little of everything).
Eventually we hope to have more intellegent filtering software (as it learns about the content) but
it's a matter of balance for now (an example of current 'weird' text patterns is - HoWeDY') and we
err on the side of deletion. So for the moment me and others go over the posts and read (it's fun
incedentally).
well, thanks for your time and replies
Peter
Mediasetnews
Usenet 101: if it's cross-posted to more than two newsgroups
it's probably not relevant to any of them.
Noted!
Melinda Shore
Mediasetnews <PeterW...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Noted!
Note this (a programmer is telling you):
1) breaking threading is anti-social. Learn how to use
follow-ups properly
2) Enough of us who participate in Usenet still rely on
command-line interfaces in terminal emulators that
setting line length greater than 80 characters is
... anti-social. 70 is a nice number.
3) anti-social behavior gets you killfiled. And it would
crack me the hell up if your overly enthusiastic pursuit
of killfiles got you killfiled.
Shelly
> 1) breaking threading is anti-social. Learn how to use
> follow-ups properly
This is actually something he should seriously think about. (Not that
the rest isn't important.) If they're filtering out Howedy, fine,
because no one follows up to his posts with anything even remotely
useful. But, if they're filtering out great chunks from this group, I
wonder how appealing the end result will be.
And I'm still unclear on *why* a Swiss-cheesy web portal will be a
desirable alternative. If people want on-topic information without all
the wackos and thread drift, then they can already search Google's
archive.
Melinda Shore
Shelly <she...@cat-sidh.net> wrote:
>And I'm still unclear on *why* a Swiss-cheesy web portal will be a
>desirable alternative. If people want on-topic information without all
>the wackos and thread drift, then they can already search Google's
>archive.
One of the things I learned looking at Google this morning
is that Google splits up a thread into a certain number of
articles-per-page, and Jerry's posts are long. Really,
really, really long. Which means that if you go into an
unfiltered page-oriented webbie mess most of what you're
going to see is Jerry's. Plus, a lot of people don't know
how to specify filters or don't want to learn, etc.
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/store/imgs/regex_square_0.png). I'm
personally not interested but I think there's probably a
(small) market for this kind of thing. I think the bigger
challenge is the impending demise of Usenet, or whatever.
I'm not sure there are that many people that care about
Usenet anymore, except possibly as a way to transmit pirated
media.
Mediasetnews
good to be able to talk back after reading so many
posts!
Regarding why we think it's worth the effort, well
I guess most people wont search through the imports
unless they allready know what they want.
Believe me there is alot of c**p out there to get
through to find decent information.
Anyway, happy posting!
Shelly
> Which means that if you go into an
> unfiltered page-oriented webbie mess most of what you're
> going to see is Jerry's.
I don't see Jerry when using Google, because I use tree view with
collapsed posts. That said, they've recently done some really unhelpful
things to their search interface.
> Plus, a lot of people don't know
> how to specify filters or don't want to learn, etc.
> (http://imgs.xkcd.com/store/imgs/regex_square_0.png).
That's over my math-challenged head, but Google makes it pretty easy to
specify what you do and don't want. I think you'd have to try pretty
hard to get overwhelmed with Howespew, but maybe I underestimate typical
users?
> I think the bigger
> challenge is the impending demise of Usenet, or whatever.
It was a busy place when I first found it, but it's definitely gotten
kind of, um, cozy over the past few years.
> I'm not sure there are that many people that care about
> Usenet anymore, except possibly as a way to transmit pirated
> media.
And that's getting harder and harder, as more providers dump Usenet.
Most of the alternatives I know of don't carry binary groups.
Shelly
> maybe I underestimate typical users?
Or maybe I overestimate them. I guess it's a matter of perspective!
Wingnut
> In article <gi8pe0$bk2$1...@news.motzarella.org>,
> Shelly <she...@cat-sidh.net> wrote:
>>And I'm still unclear on *why* a Swiss-cheesy web portal will be a
>>desirable alternative. If people want on-topic information without all
>>the wackos and thread drift, then they can already search Google's
>>archive.
>
> One of the things I learned looking at Google this morning
> is that Google splits up a thread into a certain number of
> articles-per-page, and Jerry's posts are long. Really,
> really, really long. Which means that if you go into an
> unfiltered page-oriented webbie mess most of what you're
> going to see is Jerry's. Plus, a lot of people don't know
> how to specify filters or don't want to learn, etc.
> (http://imgs.xkcd.com/store/imgs/regex_square_0.png). I'm
> personally not interested but I think there's probably a
> (small) market for this kind of thing. I think the bigger
> challenge is the impending demise of Usenet, or whatever.
> I'm not sure there are that many people that care about
> Usenet anymore, except possibly as a way to transmit pirated
> media.
ISPs, and I use the term loosely 8^), are increasingly dropping their
newsgroup service, so anybody who doesn't find an independent service is
saying bye bye. So yeah, Usenet is probably going to be a shadow of its
former self.
Melinda Shore
Wingnut <throwt...@rottenspammers.com> wrote:
>ISPs, and I use the term loosely 8^), are increasingly dropping their
>newsgroup service, so anybody who doesn't find an independent service is
>saying bye bye.
Right. I've recently had several meetings with people from
"content providers" (film companies, basically) who are
interested in getting service providers to deploy technology
to detect protected content on the wire and do one of
several things in response when it's detected. They said
that they basically got Comcast and a few others to drop
Usenet entirely because of the way the binary newsgroups are
being used to transport copyrighted material.
Paul E. Schoen
> Just to say bye and thanks for the responses. It's
> good to be able to talk back after reading so many
> posts!
>
> Regarding why we think it's worth the effort, well
> I guess most people wont search through the imports
> unless they allready know what they want.
>
> Believe me there is alot of c**p out there to get
> through to find decent information.
>
> Anyway, happy posting!
I appreciate your efforts, but as you can see, there are a lot of people
who are very antagonistic to any compilation and republication of usenet
posts, even though they are freely available on the servers and on Google
archives. I know, because I am one of those who are on many regulars'
killfiles. I also included many posts (but mostly my own), in a document
that describes my early experiences with this NG. You may read it at
www.smart.net/~pstech/Muttley/MuttleyStory.htm. You can see what an effort
it was just to compile the information that I deemed relevant to the story
of my dog Muttley and me.
Perhaps you might consider creating a moderated newsgroup, but I doubt that
you will get much traffic. Part of the attraction of usenet is the lack of
censorship, except that which is selectively imposed by individuals. I
don't use killfiles, as I find it easy enough to MAR (Mark As Read) the
majority of JH's abusive and lengthy posts, although sometimes I read them,
as they can be entertaining. I see no reason to killfile any others, even
though they might sometimes be abusive and off-topic. It is enlightening to
see what people are saying, even if they are in a rage or meltdown mode.
It can be difficult to scan content for vulgarity. I once had a post
censored on a technical forum because I used the word "scrape", which was
censored to read "s****e".
BTW, perhaps SOL might mean "Swearing Out Loud".
Paul and Muttley
montana wildhack
> How many web based portals have actually bothered to ask for a
> killfile? How many care do you
> think? Fair enough for the suspicion I guess, but you could have
> factored that into your responses.
No, what web portals have done with Usenet posts, killfiles or no
killfiles factored heavily into my response.
If I want to participate in your endeavor, I would. But you wish to
harvest content.
I normally run request that my posts will not be archived.
Will you honor that?
Phyrie
"Janet Boss" <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote in message
news:janet-BC90F4....@news.individual.net...
What they said...
--
Phyrie
Kiba the Cav's Pics:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/phyrie/sets/72157602686758930/detail/
Ted Mittelstaedt
"Kathleen" <khhfmde...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:dQO1l.20465$R43....@newsfe08.iad...
> Mediacetnews wrote:
> > Hi, I am part of a group importing posts from Usenet onto the web,
> > we are trying our best to filter out abuse and spam.
>
> out" forums with low traffic.
You mean like this post was:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.pets.dogs.behavior/msg/c146992b1f560d80
> You do not have my permission to
> duplicate or re-publish anything I've written.
>
Better tell Google that.
You can't establish copyright on your Usenet posts because there's no way
you
can prove material in a particular posting came from "the real you" unless
your
reposting material you already published. It's trivially easy to forge
Usenet news
postings.
While I agree the OP is a spammer, his goal is to get your e-mail address so
he can sell it for money, he doesen't care about your news posts, his forums
are merely window dressing.
Ted
Ted Mittelstaedt
> In article <gi8r03$tap$1...@news.motzarella.org>,
> Wingnut <throwt...@rottenspammers.com> wrote:
> >ISPs, and I use the term loosely 8^), are increasingly dropping their
> >newsgroup service, so anybody who doesn't find an independent service is
> >saying bye bye.
>
> Right. I've recently had several meetings with people from
> "content providers" (film companies, basically) who are
> interested in getting service providers to deploy technology
> to detect protected content on the wire and do one of
> several things in response when it's detected. They said
> that they basically got Comcast and a few others to drop
> Usenet entirely because of the way the binary newsgroups are
> being used to transport copyrighted material.
As I am the chief technical head of an ISP I am pretty confident
in explaining this is unmitigated nonsense. Bittorrent today
transports an order of magnitude greater amount of copyrighted
content than Usenet ever could and that is what the film industry
is really worried about.
The film companies would have everyone believe the world revolves
around them. As for wire-sniffing technology, this is fantasy-land,
film industry people are some of the biggest BSers around. If they
knew anything at all about the Internet they wouldn't have problems
with illegal movie distribution they are having now.
The amounts of data that are processed by the major ISP's are
awesomly large. And I mean BIG. Not perhaps as big as your
typical film company executive's ego, but close. ;-)
In order to "detect" anything you have to examine all that data going
through the "wire" in the ISP. Well, the ISP's are currently MERELY
ROUTING that data (and all routing does is take the traffic from one
wire and send it out to another) with hardware that costs in the $100K
range - for a single device, not including the yearly service contracts -
and any ISP has to spare out routers, besides.
So to build this content filter, you START with at least of $100K of
hardware JUST TO MOVE THE TRAFFIC. Then add lots and lots
and lots of more CPU processing power to look inside the traffic
and examine it. And since this magical mythical filtering box that
doesen't currently exist isn't going to sell near as many units as a
major router model, it's a special-built device that's going to cost
quadruple.
Only governments have that kind of money - the only filtering of
this magnitude currently going on on the Internet are the secret black
boxes the NSA puts on the overseas Internet links to look for
spies sending data - and overseas links carry a far less amount of
data than domestic links.
The REAL reason a number of ISPs are dropping Usenet (more
specifically, the binary groups in Usenet) is simply that they consume
an enormous amout of bandwidth that is mostly wasted.
For example someone posts a DVD iso on Usenet. To do so they
have to break it up into, say 500 postings. If a couple of those get lost,
the entire group of 500 is worthless. But, that group of 500 is 4GB of
data right there - data that has done nothing for nobody - not even
the illegal pirates - all it's done is cost the service provider money to
relay!
So what happened is the service providers got together a few years back
with the State of New York and created this rubbish bullcrap cover story
about
fighting child porn. You can read about it here:
http://www.nystopchildporn.com/
A list of who's doing it and what is affected is here:
http://www.big-8.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=faqs:binary_problem
This allowed the ISP's to either chop out all binary groups or dump Usenet
entirely, while giving their pissed-off customers an excuse that would
somewhat mollify them.
Ted
Melinda Shore
Ted Mittelstaedt <te...@toybox.placo.com> wrote:
>As I am the chief technical head of an ISP I am pretty confident
>in explaining this is unmitigated nonsense.
They know that. This was a gesture on Comcast's part and
showboating on Andrew Cuomo's. The media companies are all
over them.
>In order to "detect" anything you have to examine all that data going
>through the "wire" in the ISP.
Well, yes and no. There are several different approaches to
the problem, only a few of which require observing all the
data in a given flow.
>Well, the ISP's are currently MERELY
>ROUTING that data (and all routing does is take the traffic from one
>wire and send it out to another) with hardware that costs in the $100K
>range - for a single device, not including the yearly service contracts -
>and any ISP has to spare out routers, besides.
I believe the argument is that ISPs are making money by
selling services that include allowing users to move data.
And if you're doing any firewalling at all you're already
filtering content.
>So to build this content filter, you START with at least of $100K of
>hardware JUST TO MOVE THE TRAFFIC. Then add lots and lots
>and lots of more CPU processing power to look inside the traffic
>and examine it. And since this magical mythical filtering box that
>doesen't currently exist [ ... ]
It does exist, actually, and we're working on applications
of fast filtering technology. We know how to do extremely
fast filtering. The issues here have less to do with
technology than it does with the business case and right now
there's not a business case for ISPs to do this. This may
or may not change depending on changes in the regulatory and
legal environment as well as whether or not ISPs want to get
into the business of selling content themselves (detect
protected content, offer the user the opportunity to buy it
legally with the ISP brokering it).
The regulatory situation is, clearly, very different in
other countries than in the US.
>Only governments have that kind of money - the only filtering of
>this magnitude currently going on on the Internet are the secret black
>boxes the NSA puts on the overseas Internet links to look for
>spies sending data - and overseas links carry a far less amount of
>data than domestic links.
Wow. Ted! That's a little incorrect, don't you think?
Melinda Shore
Ted Mittelstaedt <te...@toybox.placo.com> wrote:
>While I agree the OP is a spammer, his goal is to get your e-mail address so
>he can sell it for money, he doesen't care about your news posts, his forums
>are merely window dressing.
I doubt that, personally.
Ted Mittelstaedt
> In article <1m2n16-...@news.ipinc.net>,
> Ted Mittelstaedt <te...@toybox.placo.com> wrote:
> >As I am the chief technical head of an ISP I am pretty confident
> >in explaining this is unmitigated nonsense.
>
> They know that. This was a gesture on Comcast's part and
> showboating on Andrew Cuomo's. The media companies are all
> over them.
>
The media companies saw a good thing going and as usual are
attempting to leverage it to FUD the general public away from
piracy. But they are johnny-come-latelys to this party.
> >In order to "detect" anything you have to examine all that data going
> >through the "wire" in the ISP.
>
> Well, yes and no. There are several different approaches to
> the problem, only a few of which require observing all the
> data in a given flow.
>
A simplification. You must observe all packets in a link for
this to work, you may not have to inspect the entire contents
of each packet, only the ones of interest. But you do have to
examine every packet to see if it's a packet of interest.
Further, when you have redundant paths in the large backbones
there is no guarentee that all the packets in a given flow are going
to even be present on any given wire.
Also, most backbones engage extensively in peering. In a peering
arraingement much of the traffic on your wires isn't even owned
by you and you almost certainly don't have any contractural
permission to sniff it.
> >Well, the ISP's are currently MERELY
> >ROUTING that data (and all routing does is take the traffic from one
> >wire and send it out to another) with hardware that costs in the $100K
> >range - for a single device, not including the yearly service contracts -
> >and any ISP has to spare out routers, besides.
>
> I believe the argument is that ISPs are making money by
> selling services that include allowing users to move data.
> And if you're doing any firewalling at all you're already
> filtering content.
>
No backbones do any firewalling or filtering in the
core for the reasons I cited. Anyone doing filtering (ie: port 25
filters and suchlike) is doing it at the edges, both because
the reduced traffic volume makes it possible, and because
your only passing your own traffic there.
But that simply leads to a vast multiplication of these content
filters your talking about so the expense is even greater to
deploy something like this.
> >So to build this content filter, you START with at least of $100K of
> >hardware JUST TO MOVE THE TRAFFIC. Then add lots and lots
> >and lots of more CPU processing power to look inside the traffic
> >and examine it. And since this magical mythical filtering box that
> >doesen't currently exist [ ... ]
>
> It does exist, actually, and we're working on applications
> of fast filtering technology. We know how to do extremely
> fast filtering.
Not at the traffic flows present in the backbones. When Juniper
starts releasing product that will do it, I'll take notice, until
then, it's just wishful thinking, or end-node technology only.
> The issues here have less to do with
> technology than it does with the business case and right now
> there's not a business case for ISPs to do this. This may
> or may not change depending on changes in the regulatory and
> legal environment as well as whether or not ISPs want to get
> into the business of selling content themselves (detect
> protected content, offer the user the opportunity to buy it
> legally with the ISP brokering it).
>
That idea has been kicking around the industry for a
couple years now. If film people would quit being so
ego-centric they would understand that this would never
fly - with the possible exception of the cable company
ISPs. Frankly I'd love that - every time that Comcast
does another trick like this, we get more DSL subscribers
from people fleeing Comcast.
And, knowing the cable companies they will only
do this if the movie studios foot the bill for installation and
maintainence of the equipment and pay them some sort
of monthly fee. But I guarentee that people will get around it.
If nothing else, you will seeing people setting up a video camera
to record the movie off the HDTV which will introduce enough
fuzziness and deviate the work so far from the original that
your filtering won't pick it up.
Even today I'm starting to see more and more distribution of
encryption keys along with the locations on rapidfile.com and
others. Your not going to be able to detect a work if it's
encrypted.
But, fundamentally the reason this will never work is the
film industry basically wants ISP's to become movie
distributors - but everyone else and their dog now is
already a movie distributor. I stop at the gas station and
walk in to pay the bill and there's DVD's behind the counter.
I stop at a fast-food joint and theres Redbox spitting out
DVD's for a buck and used DVD's for seven bucks. I
pick up my dry cleaning and there's
a coupon for a free DVD. My kid's school fund raisers
sell DVDs among other things. And now the film business
wants the ISPs to compete against all of those other people.
Why would an ISP subscriber pulling down a bittorrent of
"WALL-E" be willing to pay an ISP $5 for it, when they
can pay $15 for the DVD which comes on media that
isn't dye-based (and thus vanishes in 5 years) and comes
in a nice box with a pretty picture that fits on the shelf?
And why would the Walmarts of the world tolerate the
film studios allowing the ISP's to so severely undercut
their prices?
> The regulatory situation is, clearly, very different in
> other countries than in the US.
>
> >Only governments have that kind of money - the only filtering of
> >this magnitude currently going on on the Internet are the secret black
> >boxes the NSA puts on the overseas Internet links to look for
> >spies sending data - and overseas links carry a far less amount of
> >data than domestic links.
>
> Wow. Ted! That's a little incorrect, don't you think?
Well, I forgot China and the Arab countries various political offices
and their filters, but I was speaking mainly of the US at that point.
But China is a whole nother can of worms - heck, their economy
runs off pirating I.P. I just don't see that they would be the least
interested in helping the movie studios get more legitimate copies of
their works out into the hands of the public. Rather, the reverse seems
to be the case.
My gut feeling is the film industry is going to have to rework the
way they distribute films entirely to where the profit is not made
in the distribution of the copies, but elsewhere in the system of
providing movies to the public. Years ago when the film studios
directly owned most of the movie theatres that was more the
case - then the studios sold off the theatres and decided to
make the money on the films. Just brainstorming here, but
why not allow every bona-fied purchaser of a movie to get a
code inside their DVD box that they can punch in to a website
that will paper-mail them a $5-off ticket price to the next
first-run movie in the theatre? Or allows them to login to
a special website that they can vote on possible storyboard
ideas for the sequel of the movie - and the majority votes
determine the movie story, rather than the movie director?
Ted
Melinda Shore
Ted Mittelstaedt <te...@toybox.placo.com> wrote:
>The media companies saw a good thing going and as usual are
>attempting to leverage it to FUD the general public away from
>piracy. But they are johnny-come-latelys to this party.
Well, they're losing a lot of revenue. They've made some
poor decisions about distribution models but that really
doesn't justify stealing from them. There's certainly
precedent for ISPs to be required by law to capture some
data and turn it over to law enforcement. I think that's
probably the correct model for dealing with pirates, but
whatever. I'm an arms dealer in this war and don't identify
with either side particularly strongly.
>A simplification. You must observe all packets in a link for
>this to work, you may not have to inspect the entire contents
>of each packet, only the ones of interest. But you do have to
>examine every packet to see if it's a packet of interest.
The expense associated with packet inspection on hardware
that does packet inspection comes from "deep packet"
inspection and stateful inspection at variable offsets. You
only perform that kind of inspection in a subset of a
particular stream before determining that it is or is not of
interest. There is more to it than that, in terms of the
capabilities of the hardware, but not that changes the basic
description.
>Further, when you have redundant paths in the large backbones
Well, that's your problem. Part of your problem, anyway.
There's no interest in putting these things on backbones.
You're making some architectural assumptions that are simply
incorrect. I wonder why you didn't think about the various
possibilities for sensor placement rather than jumping to
conclusions and focusing on one design that's flat wrong.
Kidding! I don't wonder.
I'll note that while you go on and on and on and on and on
and on and on and jesus christ do you go on and on, you
failed to identify the actual problem with the proposal. At
some point people involved in piracy are going to figure out
how to do encryption in a non-moronic way. Impressive,
*Ted!*
Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
"Mediacetnews" <PleaseR...@None.com> wrote in message
news:sKOdnQVqXva-BdrU...@giganews.com...
> Hi, I am part of a group importing posts from Usenet onto the web,
That's commendable, AIN'T IT <{}: ~ ) >
> we are trying our best to filter out abuse and spam.
You mean, LIKE THIS?:
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "CourteHOWES Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first
time, spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth
and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled with
this but just ignore him and continue your normal
behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"
-------------------------
AND LIKE THIS?:
Date: 1999/01/15
Subject: Re: Another mouthy lab
Get this book:
"The Art of Raising A Puppy," by the Monks of New Skete
If you can't find it locally, you can obtain it
through my Web site (see below).
You'll need it for more than just the usual puppy
"mouthing" problems, anyway.
And good luck with your Lab puppy!
--
Dogman
------------------------
From: Tara <taragre...@verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:58:51 GMT
Subject: Re: good dog training books?
I've personally seen their methods (as applied by
them) NOT work on dogs they themselves have bred.
IMO, their methods actually made the underlying
problems *worse*. In three cases, where they both
bred and trained the dogs, they subsequently washed
their hands of the dogs and suggested euthanasia....
and then promptly tried to talk the owners into taking
another one of their own pups.
<snip>
Since I have serious issues and doubts about the
practices and ethics of the Monks, I obviously
only support the latter two ;-)
Tara
------------------------
From: osi...@deltaville.net (Michael Erskine)
Date: 12 Aug 2004 10:09:05 -0700
Subject: My GSD bit me.
The question:
I have a four year old male GSD. He growls
at me sometimes. When he growls at me he
stares me in the face and lays his ears back.
The New Skete books say that the dog should not be
allowed to do that. They suggest shaking down the
dog by grabing the dog on the sides of his neck and
picking him off his front feet, then giving the dog the
same sort of treatment the dog would give another if
it were challenging him.
Namely getting in the dogs face and letting
the dog know you are the alpha dog.
Well, my dog bit me clearly he felt that I was not
convincing enough or he bit me out of fear.
Anyone got ideas on what to do with this dog that might
help him to decide that he wants to follow and that he
has nothing to fear from me?
----------------------
From: Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@users.easynews.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 17:21:14 GMT
Subject: Re: My GSD bit me.
You need to improve your acting skills. Get a werewolf
suit with blood-drenched fangs and claw gloves and THEN
go after your dog.
Knock the shit out of him and don't be afraid to crack
some ribs. Then yank the mask off and shout "SURPRISE!
IT'S ME!" I guarantee you and your dog will have a new
relationship based on mutual respect.
Keep in mind that the monks of New Skete
were pre-Lon-Chaney.
Charlie
-----------------------
AND LIKE THIS?:
"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:a3h5qn$mra$1...@uwm.edu...
> Di,
> I don't believe you mentioned a particular kind of
> training. If you are interested in training retrieval
> behavior than do consider our own Amy Dahl's:
> The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a Well-
> Mannered, Obedient and Enthusiastic Gun Dog
> in 10 Minutes a Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl
You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE":
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog
I Do Not Believe There Is A Single Circumstance
Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything But
Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want
to choke or beat a dog, or how any trainer could
possibly get a good working dog by making them
unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
frosty dahl.
"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.
BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!
> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.
> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the few
> regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
> ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
> --Marshall
amy lying frosty dahl continues:
"On the other extreme, the really ard dogs
we have trained require much more frequent
and heavy application of pressure (PAIN j.h.)
to get the job done,
This is continued resistance to your increasing
authority, and the job is not done until it is overcome
From: Amy Dahl
Date: Thurs, Sep 6 2001 11:52 am
Email: Amy Dahl a...@oakhillkennel.com
Jerry Howe wrote:
> You hurt dogs to train them. That makes some dogs
> aggressive or breaks them from their training, and
> ruins and kills dogs, dahl. You tell us you don't hit
> dogs to train them. What's CHIN CUFF mean, dahl?
> What does that 30"-40" Hickory switch do, wave off flies?
> No, you beat the Retriever dog to make him "really dig in."
> And then you deny it, and bring up another, less vicious
> beating method you use for "steadying" and try to pass it
> off as the disgusting "stick fetch" you teach, and deny
> teaching it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. For any newbies who need info, I have
never written the phrase "chin cuff" in any training advice.
***(Yeah, yeah, yeah... she sez "chin CHUCK", not cuff.
and "digs OUT", not "DIGS IN" to AVOID A BEATIN).
It's something Jerry Howe made up and attributes
to me. Ditto for "hickory switch,"
***(perhaps the choice of matterial is irrelevent? You could
use a Willow switch or a car antenna or riding crop.)
"really dig in," and his allegation that the dog is "beaten"
during steadying. And plenty of other crap, including a
paragraph he falsely attributes to me and has posted literally
thousands of times.
> See your posts about Pudge avoiding the riding
> crop, even when tied and knowing she can't escape it...
Again, Jerry has made up this business of Pudge being
"tied" and not able to escape. I have certainly never
posted saying that, because it's totally untrue.
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and gave the dog
two or three medium whacks on the rump with a training stick
while holding him partially off the ground. John then told Blackie
to sit, ran back to the line and cast him back to the dummies."
The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies to SAVE
THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE. We're gonna
teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...
> > entirely by reward-based training.
> I'd like to know dahl's definition of 'reward based' training.
Food treats and retrieves for rewards, end the session or
withhold the reward if some behavior is to be discouraged.
> What do you suppose they got a capital R in front of their
> name for?
They haven't. Labrador retriever, Chesapeake Bay retriever,
golden retriever, flat-coated retriever, curly-coated retriever,
Nova Scotia duck tolling retriever. Not a capital R in the
bunch.
Amy Dahl
---------------------
QUOTED from A.K.C: "The most distinguishing characteristics
of the Labrador Retriever are..."
QUOTED from page 1 at Dog Breed INFO.Com:
14 references: "The Labrador Retriever."
QUOTED from A.K.C.: 8 references page 1 "The Chesapeake Bay Retriever"
QUOTED from Dog Breed INFO.Com: 10 references:
"The Curly Coated Retriever"
QUOTED from A.K.C.: "The Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever (Toller)"
------------------
AIN'T YOU HAD ENOUGH IDIOCY LIES INSANITY and MALICE???
Subject: Re: Wow.
"Amy Dahl" <a...@oakhillkennel.com> wrote
John and I do get accosted, and have the law called on
us, for things that observers think cruel or inappropriate.
The biggest one is having the dogs on the truck on sunny summer
days. JQPublic doesn't understand the greenhouse effect, or
that our specially designed and constructed, insulated,
ventilated dog box is *not* the same as a car with glass
windows. Other people think training is unnatural, or keeping
dogs in a kennel is cruel. And as you know, we kill birds.
I am grateful that these misinformed do-gooders choose
to act within the law and not outside it. I worry about
animal-rights nuts and other self-righteous vigilante types
acting on the same impulses. People have a right to be
ignorant, and they have a right to be offensive, but I hope
they always stop short of stealing our customers' dogs.
I cannot fail to see someone who advocates theft as a first
course of action as a threat. How can people of diverse
opinions live together, and make a living, if the business of
imposing your will at your neighbor's expense, in disregard
of the law, catches on?
I never gave Leah much credit for supposed good
intentions either. Actions count.
Judith's getting angry at me or not liking
my posts isn't a factor.
> As for Shasta, the same. You have my sympathies, and
> I wouldn't even think to judge on what is Right or Wrong.
I figured as much. I didn't feel criticized; just like
discussing your statement.
Amy Dahl
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAAA!!!
lying frosty dahl wrote:
"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have
a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
less tractable dogs may require you to progress to
striking them more sharply.
REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.
Now you are ready to progress to what most
people think of as force-fetching: the ear pinch.
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually,
the dog will give in
With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'
Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.
Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear."
Gotta LOVE koehler. dahl makes
koheler look like St. Francis.
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL
Perhaps THAT'S HOWE COME she LIES abHOWET it?:
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A
Dog I Do Not Believe There Is A Single
Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A
Dog Is Anything But Destructive," dahl.
LUCKY thing CHIN CHUCK absolutely don't
mean slap the goddamned dog, we'd look like
a conspiracy of LIARS and DOG abusers if
CHIN CHUCK DID mean SLAP the dog.
"I don't see why anyone would want to choke or
beat a dog, or how any trainer could possibly get
a good working dog by making them unhapper,
fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying frosty dahl.
DOES THAT SOUND LIKE THE TRUTH?
lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:
"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.
BWEEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA!!!
"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
we have trained require much more
frequent and heavy application of pressure
(PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,
This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome
Borrowed from: "Puppy Raising Tips" from
professional trainers, John and Amy Dahl.
"Around four months many puppies can withstand a
correction. Unfortunately this is the time they start
teething and if their mouth hurts, they may act
generally sensitive. If this is the case, be patient and
wait for all those baby teeth to fall out.
In training, retrievers often respond to physical correction
better than verbal correction. While "NO!" is extremely
useful if puppy is about to bite an electrical cord or steal
food off the table, when you are teaching them something
(like obedience) a sharp jerk on their lead or swat with a
stick gets the message across with less emotion and less
effect on their confidence.
If they drop the dummy and act like their mouth hurts
when they are teething, stop all retrieving and wait for
their mouth to feel better. A correction should be just
severe enough to get the dog to respond.
Repeated weak corrections are very stressful to the dog."
--------------------------
Amy Dahl writes:
"From where I sit, there is a difference. I haven't noticed
any of the contingent who like Koehler trying to force
their method on everyone, or calling others names because
they do not use the method.
I personally believe the Koehler method is a more
humane way of teaching than any alternative I have
studied.
And I am not averse to learning--I have studied a
number of methods.
Koehler, of course, stops far short of the specialized
work I do with retrievers, and some of the things in his
book, such as making the dog walk behind the handler
on the "finish," are inappropriate for retriever work.
Why do I think Koehler's method is more humane than others?
First, I don't believe "corrections vs. no corrections" is as
significant to dogs as it is to people. Applied correctly,
Koehler's method uses *no* intimidation, fear, or emotional
manipulation. It is clear and definite, and the handler's
actions are always predictable. The method is masterfully
designed to prevent confrontation or vying for control in
any way. It places high demands of responsibility on the
trainer, and takes a great deal of commitment to do correctly,
so it is not for the casual "dabbler." When done well,very
few corrections are needed.
In brief, I think the clarity, predictability, and absence
of emotional blackmail weigh more strongly in the method's
favor, than the occasional brief unpleasantness of correction
weighs against it." lying frosty dahl.
----------------------------
YOU MEAN LIKE THIS?:
"Amy Dahl" <a...@oakhillkennel.com> wrote in message
news:44D8F590...@oakhillkennel.com...
> diddy wrote:
>> []
>> > They just aren't my thing. I DO like working with
>> > soft dogs. And I guess I've never met a soft Lab.
>> > They remind me of lumber wagons.
>
>> Well, there are many such Labs, but they probably
>> weren't field-bred.
IME there are lots of soft Labs, and some of the recent
field-bred dogs are among the worst. In the 60's, when
you worked with them, if I understand correctly, they
were probably more consistently tough and resilient.
That's the traditional nature of the breed.
Trainer Mike Lardy thinks we are getting the softer,
more sensitive dogs today because training methods
using modern e-collars are so much better and more
gentle than they used to be, it doesn't take a tough
dog to come through training in good shape. I think
it's a plausible argument.
Doesn't fit the stereotype the ignorant have of e-collars.
We still get a few that are happy and eager no
matter what we do to them.
Amy Dahl
----------------------
> For this reason I would be most grateful if you
> could send me a copy of your killfiles
Here's professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM NO! into ITS face
for five seconds and lock IT in a box for ten minutes contemplation"
dermer of the Department of ANAL-ytic Behavior at UofWI, pryor:
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?
Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),
--Marshall
Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@uwm.edu
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"
Subject changed: JUMPING / MOUTHING On PEOPLE (Ninnyboy)
26 From: Marshall Dermer -
Date: Tues, Aug 14 2001 8:15 pm
Email: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)
In article <2e501ccd.0108141341.7f18d...@posting.google.com>
mattburns...@yahoo.com (Matthew Burnside) writes:
Dear Matt:
Many have offered Jerry constructive advice but
Jerry has failed to profit from it.
My sincere advice is to filter out Jerry's posts.
--Marshall
> Preferably you have been using this group for
> around 4 years or longer but any help is appreciated.
PS: I have put "Ninnyboy" in the header for many of us filter
posts with this term. The term indicates that the post
is about Jerry.
I have read rpdb for about five years. Consequently, I urge
newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb
regulars from whom I have learned much. They include:
Ann (,Twzl, Sligo & Roy), Amy Dahl, Diane Blackman,
jdoee, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, Nancy
Holmes, Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, MaryBeth, Ruth
Mays, Cindy Tittle Moore, Robin Nuttall, Denna Pace,
John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, Jane
Webb, and Terri Willis.
*(EVERY WON of them got VERY LONG POSTED CASE}
HISTORIES of INCURABLE MENTAL ILLNESS an HURTIN
INTIMIDATIN an MURDERIN INNOCENT DEFENSELESS
DUMB CRITTERS an LYIN abHOWET IT.)
Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior Analysis
Specialty/ Department of Psychology/University of
Wisconsin--Milwaukee/Milwaukee, WI 53201
der...@uwm.edu http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me. But if I am only for
myself, what am I?" _The Talmud_
YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!
Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.
From: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer) -
Date: 1998/08/28
Subject: Re: Puppy growls and snaps
In article <6s6ea0$8c...@uwm.edu> der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall
Dermer) writes: In article <35E60819.65178...@pilot.msu.edu>
> >tami sutherland <suthe...@pilot.msu.edu> writes:
>> However, there have been incidences where she has
>> growled and snapped at us...for instance, when we
>> were trying to dry her off after bathtime.
>
> When your three-month old pooch growls or snaps, IMMEDIATELY
> pick her up ONLY by the skin at the back of her neck, for 5
> sec, and loudly say, "NO!" Alternatively, say "NO!" and hold
> her mouth shut for say 15 sec.
>
> If she so snaps that you can't do the above then you
> will have to find another way to administer a prompt
> correction, for example, throwing a can filled with
> pennies, or a tug on the collar. --Marshall
"Oops! I would start by only holing her mouth
shut for say 5 sec.
At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.
BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
P.S. Contacting Dr. P:
Please note that due to the large number of
requests I receive, I can no longer give free,
personal advice on problems related to dog
training and behavior.
In order for me to give such advice we would
have to "talk" about the problem at length.
That is, I would need detailed information about
the dog, it's environment and routine, the problem,
and the situation in which the problem occurs.
Thus, this type of consultation takes time which
I cannot afford to give away for free.
If you wish such advice, please see the information
I have provided about my K9 Behavioral Consulting
practice. Another alternative to obtaining personal
advice is to participate in e-mail, chat room, &
newsgroup discussions.
P.P.S. BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!
Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.
> Please note that what you may consider annoying may simply be
> discussion and some people can be moderated and not entirely
> blocked, what we are trying to eliminate is posts with no value
> and/or disturbing content.
You mean like animal abuse?
> More killfiles will help our automated cross referencing
> technology's ability to flag users who have been killfiled
> by a large number of people.
You mean, 'what you don't see won't hurt you'?
LIKE THIS?:
handsome happy jackass morrison aka dogman
aka the anonymHOWES tommy sorenson of
sorenson's Retrievers and SHOCK COLLAR
SALES sez:
"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use
a little "knee action," that is, as the dog goes
charging by you, just give the dog a little bop
with your knee and shin. Yep, really lean into it.
Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.
Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.
If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.
When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."
I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."
"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.
A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens
At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating
a dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin
does *not* constitute a "beating."
"Swatting a dog on the nose is
always the wrong thing to do."
From: qbt...@v1.arg (Dogman)
Date: 1997/01/24
Subject: Re: Over-Excited Lab
On a cold day in Hell, Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:53:10
Teaching a puppy to stop biting and nipping people is
probably the very easiest thing you will ever do as a dog
trainer. Don't make such a big deal out of it.
It's E-A-S-Y, but it won't be done in just one or
two lessons. You must be C-O-N-S-I-S-T-E-N-T.
And P-A-T-I-E-N-T.
Whenever your puppy bites or nips you (or anyone else
in your family), do any one of the following:
1.) At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm
voice, gently but firmly tap your puppy on its nose
with your index finger.
2.) At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm
voice, gently but firmly grasp your puppy's lower
jaw with your right hand (if you are right handed),
your right thumb stuck down and under her tongue,
your other fingers wrapped under her jaw, and gently
but firmly shake her jaw back and forth a couple of
times.
3.) At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm
voice, gently place a couple of fingers into her
mouth, trying to touch the back of her tongue with
them, initiating a gag reflex.
Immediately after doing any one of the above,
stop playing with her for at least 15-20 minutes
and completely IGNORE her.
Do not even make eye contact!
I promise you, Phil, that if you will be consistent
in the application of the above, your puppy will soon
stop nipping and biting people. Just how soon this
occurs depends upon the puppy, how well you execute
the above, and how C-O-N-S-I-S-T-E-N-T you are.
And no one should be allowed to play with the puppy
who is not capable of doing any of the above. Not
until she has first learned not to nip and bite people.
"At the very FIRST nip, tap your puppy on his nose with
your index finger, sharply, but not very hard, your face in
his face, and say "NO BITE!" in a firm but not loud voice."
"With your index finger, tap the puppy on her nose
firmly, but not harshly, then, at the very same time,
and nose to nose with her, tell your puppy in a firm
but not loud voice, "NO BITE!"
"At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm voice,
gently but firmly tap your puppy on its nose with your
index finger."
BUT NEVER HIT YOUR DOG~!
Swatting a dog on the nose is always the
wrong thing to do.
IMO, the *fastest* way to curb a mouthy puppy's
desire to bite hands (especially if other methods
have failed, because you don't want this habit to
become reinforced by too much success), etc., is
to take advantage of the pup's gag reflex:
Slowly reach over and around the pup's shoulder
(while you're sitting on the floor), coming up
to the pup's mouth from underneath it with your
right hand (that way he can't see your finger or
your hand), and stick your index finger into the
pup's mouth, at the very rear, then down the
pup's throat, and gently place some downward
pressure on the back of the tongue, until he
starts to gag. Use your left arm to hold him
close to you, while you're doing this.
Trust me, it's easier to demonstrate this
technique than to explain it, but it's fail-proof.
He'll quickly put 2 and 2 together.
Biting hands = gag.
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
-------------------
> You, on the other hand, must think that she's just
> a stupid bimbo who can't think for herself.
You mean, like THESE, tommy?:
Here's a couple of tommy's STUDENTS:
"Feisty, Humorous, Brave, Curious And
Playful. Full Of "Joie de Vivre," And DEAD.
> From: Laura Arlov (l...@wordfixers.no)
> Subject: Re: Chewie bit my husband !
> Date: 1999/01/20
> Well, we're doing as you say Dogman,
> and I'll keep you all posted.
> Laura in Oslo
You're quite the dog enthusiast, eh laura?
> The listener,
You didn't WANT to listen to The Puppy Wizard when
HE told you you couldn't PUNISH and INTIMIDATE
your dog or you'd make IT aggressive.
> the observer.
NHOWE you got a DEAD DOG HOWETA it.
> We do work were you sometimes have to observe people
Like laura, MURDERING her dog...
> and take notes.
INDEEDY!
> B. has amazing powers of observation and concentration.
RIGHT...
> Laura and Angel in Oslo
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
steve walker's DEAD DOG Sampson was a shelter / rescue
Golden. He begain TURNING on his daughter so he PUNISHED
IT. That seemed to have CURED Sampson's FEAR of steve's
daughter but TAUGHT IT to attack OTHER daddy's daughters,
and GOT HIM DEAD, despite all the EXXXPERTEASE of HOWER
fellHOWE dog lovers here and the BIG SHOT, john rogerson,
in the UK <{}: ~ ( >
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
From: Steve Walker <skwal...@btinternet.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 01:54:57 +0100
Subject: Sad news (Samson)
Hello everyone, hope you remember me. I've been quiet
here for ages, firstly because of a computer breakdown
that took ages to remedy, and then it's been difficult
to find the heart to write to the group again.
You see, on Sep 21, after much heart-searching, I took
Samson back to the RSPCA to be put to sleep. He was a
brilliant dog with his family, but was becoming more &
more fear reactive with people, especially small children,
and (apparently randomly) with other dogs, to the point
where we had to muzzle him when he went out and if we
had visitors (which is often), because we just couldn't
trust people to remember to leave him alone, so his
quality of life had become not much.
We put him through a rehab programme from John Rogerson's
practice - I gather he's pretty well-known, so some of
you might have heard of him - which did everything they
said it would (reliable recall, focused his attention much
more on us, etc - except reduce his tendency to react
suddenly and bite.
The vet had checked him and found nothing, but I'd still
have suspected a brain tumour or something if it hadn't
been for the fact that he was totally reliable with the kids
and us.
I called the RSPCA to let them know that the rehab programme
wasn't working, and they said that if we gave him back, they'd
assess him but he'd almost certainly be put down.
I couldn't let him be alone among strangers for his last
moments, so I asked if they'd let me take him immediately
and stay with him while it was done, and they agreed.
It was a sunny day, and he was happy enough on the drive to
the centre, but I could barely hold myself together. He was
nervous of going into the surgery and I had to coax him in,
and I felt like an utter traitor.
I stroked him as they prepared him, crying and telling him
how sorry I was, and nearly panicked and ran out with him
when they brought out the needle.
But I knew if I did it would only be delaying the inevitable,
and I'd be risking someone, probably a child, being injured,
which I couldn't do. So I went through with it, and in a few
seconds it was over and I'd killed my dog, who trusted me
to look after him.
I told a mailing list I'm on straight away, and they've been
fantastically kind. I was in a daze for days afterwards, and
still have the occasional flashback to that day, but I'm coping
a lot better now, and would love to give a home to another dog,
but my wife doesn't feel ready yet.
Soon, though, I hope. I miss Samson terribly, but while I
feel a lot of guilt for the decision I made, I know there
wasn't another way out, and at least I could make sure I was
with him at the end.
I owed him that.
I know there are some here who will gloat over this email,
but all I can say is that their opinion, their existence,
is irrelevant to me. For the rest of you, the good, decent
majority who frequent this group, I didn't want to just
disappear, and not tell you what had happened, after you
gave me so much support and help from the outset.
Samson was my first dog, and the help I got here made
life much better for him and us while we were together.
If the glad day comes when we do adopt another dog,
I'll let you know. I hope it's soon.
God bless,
--
Steve Walker
-------------
Seems steevie is in DEEP DENIAL~!
From: Steve Walker <skwal...@btinternet.com>
Date: 2000/10/09
Subject: Re: Sad news (Samson) = I'm GLAD You Killed Samson,
He Was A BAD GENETIC Choice. You Did The Right Thing. Turn
And Don't Look Back.
In article FJ6E5.62103$O95.4439...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com,
Jerry Howe <jh...@cfl.rr.com> writes
> Nor can I. Nor can Marilyn. She does the same kind of
> work I do. We KNEW this was going to happen, based
> on steve's original posts here...
Jerry, you're still in my killfile, but somehow this one
made it through, so I'll respond before I ignore you again.
You obviously have a very short memory. Samson was not
trained using aggressive, confrontational or harsh methods.
John Rogerson's rehab programme was based entirely on using
kind methods to get Samson's attention even more fixed on us
(which wouldn't have worked if they were not kind), with the
intention that Samson wouldn't even be interested in other
dogs and people, until we had such good control that we
could start to introduce others under controlled circumstances
that would persuade Samson it was great to have them around.
It worked, in so far as Samson became even more attached
to us, had a perfect recall etc. Unfortunately, this didn't
stop the fact that he might suddenly react aggressively to
even the proximity of a stranger or strange dog.
No aggressive methods were used in this programme. Not one.
But the problem was too deep-rooted, too instinctive, and
Samson just couldn't help himself.
He'd shake if a small child even entered the room, and if
they approached him he'd try to bite them. Not as a reaction
to aggression, but just because he had some deep-rooted fear
issue going back to before we ever had him.
We could not risk that he would injure someone, especially
a child, so we made the decision we did - not lightly, but
with tears.
You, however, are an idiot. Don't bother replying, because
even if one of your posts makes it past the killfile again,
you'll just be binned with the rest of the garbage.
Goodbye.
--
Steve Walker
-----------------
Naaaaah??
> Once again thank you and if you are willing
> please post files to my email.
You mean, maybe sumpthin LIKE THIS??:
LIKE THIS:
Subject: < BEFORE-- -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"
< AFTER ---> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.
'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.
> Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
> Date: 02/05/1999
> Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of shit you really are
Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?
Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you
insipid piece of cow dung!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman
> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus
<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>
> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:
I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.
This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.
The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.
To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.
Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.
"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.
Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.
> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.
> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.
Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get
to listen to the box first?)
-----------------
Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy, "you
insipid piece of cow dung!" Your "ADVICE"
GOT Robert's and laura's DEAD DOGS DEAD.
BWEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHaAAHAAA~!~!~!
Heh, heh, heh, eh, tommy?
tommy sez:
> Sucker.
Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy, "you insipid piece of cow dung!"
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAA~!~!~!
QUOTE FROM lyingdogDUMMY:
> "The only one I see acting like a fool is you, Crim, for
> buying into anything Howe ever has to say, about anything,
> and for not listening to me when it comes to dogs."
Ever hear the expression "sit rolls down hill?"
> but was becoming more & more fear reactive
> with people, especially small children,
That's it in a nutshell. You taught him through your own
actions, HOWE to deal with other, less capable beings.
Dogs copy our actions and attitudes. They mirror us. They
emulate us. And when we respond to their natural, innate,
instinctive, reflexive behaviors, with punishment, the dog
loses confidence in our judgement and leadership ability.
Seems I recall you mentioning the children were learning
to CORRECT Samson on lead, so THEY could enjoy walking with
him. Didn't you mention they were learning some alpha dominance
techniques as well?
Can't let that big lug pull down the children now, can we?
So you teach the children to violate the dog's trust with
a few good corrections. And YOU back up the children with
the HAMMERS OF HELL...
And it worked. Didn't it, just as I told you so.
Just as I told Robert Crim.
But you guys were too smart to be taken in by this con man.
You listened to our fear, force, and alpha dominance control
freaks, who learned ALL that they know about dog behavior from
the MADMAN, MONSTER, wm koehler.
So, it seems the only problem is that you didn't read
the back of the book. That's what our Gang Of Thugs fails
to mention, until it's too late.
That's the part that says when the dog is finally provoked
to act out on his trainer or other weaker family members,
that you've got to HANG the dog till his eyes roll back in
ITS head, ITS tongue turns thick and blue and falls out the
side of ITS mouth, and when you put IT back on the ground,
IT should stagger to IT'S feet, and PUKE.
That's the cure for this behavior problem, you just never asked.
I expect you'll enjoy your next dog as much as you enjoyed Samson.
Tell him HOWEDY for me, eh good buddy? Eh? Huh? Huh? Eh??? Eh???
Yours for responsible dog handling and training,
Jerry "Don't Confront The Dog," Howe.
From: Dogman <dog...@i1.net>
Date: 2000/10/08
Subject: Re: Sad news (Samson) = ninnyboy
"JohnK" <jo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> It's too late. I already know what a disgusting, vile
> human being you are. You are to be ignored now.
Come on, John.
It didn't really take that Sampson post for you to know
that Howe is a disgusting, vile human being, did it?
I hope not.
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman
SEE?
AND LIKE THIS:
Subject: Re: RIP Teena 1999 - 2004
"Handsome Jack Morrison" <me10...@privacy.net.invalid> wrote in
message news:p8sn1093e89a5202r...@4ax.com...
> On 31 Jan 2004 17:48:39 GMT, KWBrown arfenarfSPAMBL...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> Well.
> She tried to take a bite out of our trainer, and that was that.
> Teena the ESS made her last trip to the vet and, I hope,
> sleeps more peacefully than she has in years.
I'm very sorry to hear that, Kate.
But going by the information you posted here about her,
you had no choice.
Godspeed, Teena.
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
Hello Dogdirtforbirdbrains,
You ain't getting away with that any more. You are not going to get
away with blaming genetics for the behavior problems created
through abusive training methods recommended by thugs like you
and Koehler, that cause dogs to turn on their owners and families,
and die as a result!
People are getting smart around here, and fast! You becoming well
recognized for what you are. I don't need to elaborate on that
anymore. Everybody knows.
> What a piece of shit you are, Crim. Blaming me, or blaming
> Koehler, for poor Fritz's problem, is like blaming a doctor who
> couldn't save your child's life, and that's unconscionable.
You told Crim that Koehler was fantastic. He bought it hook, line,
and sinker, and it sank him. You must know the risk, just as I do.
I've seen this sort of thing happen repeatedly for over thirty years.
It will stop. I'm not going to allow you people to get away with it
anymore.
I will dog you, Koehler, and all of your kind right to the gates of
Hell, and I'll train Appallion to keep you there forever. Guaranteed.
The gates of Hell are guarded by a Wits' End trained dog.
> Your dog was almost certainly predestined by his *genes* to end
> up like he did, particularly since he had *you* as his thoroughly
> confused, ignorant and inconsistent doofus owner.
No, it was the Koehler method that killed Fritz. It was your advice
that killed Fritz. It was me, not being here sooner, that killed Fritz.
Crim was a victim, just like Fritz. Crim did everything by the book,
exactly as per the instructions. He followed your advice. He lost,
big time. I could have predicted the outcome, the percentage of this
kind of "collateral damage" is unacceptably high.
Those things, I am certain of. Those things, I am determined to stop.
> The only one I see acting like a fool is you, Crim, for buying into
> anything Howe ever has to say, about anything,
> and for not listening to me when it comes to dogs.
You are mad at me, because I forced Crim to examine exactly what
happened to Fritz, and he came to the correct conclusion. If I
hadn't, he'd be doing the same things he'd done before, but harder,
and faster, and maybe lost his next dog, faster and harder.
You now blame the genes, you now blame Crim for mishandling.
You said it was a good thing he destroyed his untrustworthy dog.
That is the kind of response you have given many people over the
years, isn't it? I know that for certain, I've been fighting you
Thugs all my life. It's almost over now, people are getting wise to
you, and Koehler, and Fraud Die, and the rest of the "in crowd" here.
Before, it was just me fighting for proper handling and training
methods. You've all ganged up on me, trying everything possible
to discredit and intimidate me. That didn't work. Not one of you
cretins have successfully discredited any of my methods. Keep trying,
please.
Now, there are several competent professional dog trainers, all with
somewhat different but nonetheless acceptable, non force, methods.
For the first time in my career, I've learned something from another
dog trainer. We've got a good thing going now, and you and our
Gang Of Thugs have to change, or go off into obscurity, in shame and
contempt.
You can't make up for the harm you've done, but you were an
innocent victim just like Crim, and you can be forgiven, and
rehabilitated, and you don't have to continue doing any more harm.
The choice is up to you. It's time to do or die.
> Dogman aka "Big Daddy"
> dog...@i1.net
===================
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> My provider is hotmail and my username is mediacetnews
> (Please adjust accordingly, I've presented it that way to avoid
> Spam bots).
You think someWON wants to steal your intellectual information?
> Also if possible send the corresponding group name(s)
> with the mail.
That's EZ~!
You got this at The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child,
Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Training Method
Manual Forums And Human And Animal Behavior Forensic
Sciences Research Laboratory <{}'; ~ ) >
I see you've met HOWER Gang Of Pathetic Miserable
Stinkin Rotten Lyin Animal Murderin Punk Thug
Coward Active Acute Chronic Life-Long INCURABLE
Malignant MaliciHOWES MENTAL CASES who jerk
choke shock bribe crate intimidate an surgically sexually
MUTILATE innocent defenseless dumb critters an LIE
abHOWET it, who's own dogs GOT THE SAME PROBLEMS
for the SAME REASONS <{}: ~ ( >
> We hope to provide a service free from abusive or disturbing posts.
You mean, LIKE THIS?:
From: dog...@i1.net (Dogman) Date: 1997/11/11
Subject: Re: Koehler's Usefulness--A Concluding Assessment
This, from a yellow-bellied coward who has TOTALLY refused
to engage me in debate, preferring mudslinging, hyperbole, distortion,
lies, exaggeration, and to take Koehler completely out of context,
instead.
What lying hypocrites these hand-wringers are!
The most consistent argument among Koehler's defenders is based
on a questionable assumption that such "drastic" measures are
effective in "extreme" cases where other methods fail.
------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
"The Koehler Method of Dog Training"
Howell Book House, 1996"
Koehler On Correcting The Housebreaking Backslider.
"If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these
"backsliders" will think they're winning and will
continue to mess in the house. An indelible impression
can sometimes be made by giving the dog a hard
spanking of long duration, then leaving him tied by
the mess he's made so you can come back at twenty
minute intervals and punish him again for the same
thing. (Dogs are REALLY stupid. J.H.)
In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog,
as well as the house, if you really pour it on him."
"Housebreaking Problems:
"The Koehler Method of Dog Training"
Howell Book House, 1996"
Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to
relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how
often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog
may require punishment. Make certain he is equipped
with a collar and piece of line so he can't avoid
correction.
When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to
the place of his error, and hold his head close enough
so that he associates his error with the punishment.
Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or
switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper.
It is important to your future relationship that you
do not rush at him and start swinging before you get
hold of him.
When he's been spanked, take him outside. Chances
are, if you are careful in your feeding and close
observation, you will not have to do much punishing.
Be consistent in your handling.
To have a pup almost house-broken and then force
him to commit an error by not providing an opportunity
to go outside is very unfair. Careful planning will
make your job easier.
The same general techniques of housebreaking apply
to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the house.
For the grown dog who was reliable in the house and
then backslides, the method of correction differs
somewhat. In this group of "backsliders" we have the
"revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by
messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed.
The first step of correction is to confine the dog
closely in a part of the house when you go away, so
that he is constantly reminded of his obligation. The
fact that he once was reliable in the house is proof
that the dog knows right from wrong, and it leaves
you no other course than to punish him sufficiently
to convince him that the satisfaction of his
wrongdoing is not worth the consequences. If the
punishment is not severe enough, some of these
"backsliders" will think they're winning and will
continue to mess in the house.
An indelible impression can sometimes be made
by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration,
then leaving him tied by the mess he's made so you
can come back at twenty minute intervals and punish
him again for the same thing.
In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment.
It will be better for your dog, as well as the house,
if you really pour it on him.
---------------------
> Regards and thanks
LikeWIZE~!
AIN'T GOT NO AGENDAS HERE, SEE??
LIKE THIS:
HOWE COME would these EXXXPERTS set their
INFORMATIVE POSTS to EXXXPIRE in six days
like HOWE matty a.k.a. Rocky, elegy, montana, diddler,
professora melanie chang, cindy title moore of k9web.com,
marquis de "READ KOEHLER FOR CONTENT" shaw
and not so happy, not so handsome, not so gentle jackass,not
even jack morrison, a.k.a. BIG DADDY a.k.a.DOGMAN
a.k.a. tommy sorenson of sorenson's Retriever PUPPY
MILL and SHOCK COLLAR SALES??
Are they EMBARRASSED by their own words, the
lyin animal murderin punk thug coward mental cases
frauds an SCAM ARTISTS?
matty aka Rocky EXXXPLAINS HOWE COME:
"Rocky" <2d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote
For reasons I'll only explain privately, I've gone no
archive, and it's a shame. Once in a while, while
looking for something else, I'll run into an old post
of mine.
What an idiotic response!
Whoops.
---------------------------
SEE??
BWEEEAAAHAHAAAHAAHAAA!~!~!
HERE'S HOWE COME:
From: Rocky <2dogsREM...@rocky-dog.com.invalid>
Date: 24 Jul 2004 04:00:53 GMT
Local: Fri, Jul 23 2004 11:00 pm
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Cam said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> Everything he preaches is very positive, no
> correction, no punishment, all praise and love.
You are very wrong.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky <2d...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 23 Nov 2003 02:40:42 GMT
Subject: Re: house training
steve braun said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I dont like the insinuations that i am abusing
> my dog when i am NOT.
Then you may want to ignore the Puppy Wizard/Jerry Howe.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky <3da...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Aug 2002 18:40:54 GMT
Subject: Re: training a dog...
nancyj wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> The pressure meant a GOOD possibility if she could
> just push up hard enough, I'd understand. I did
> eventually <G>. I switched to a light tap!
Yup, once a dog learns to sit, a light tap
works as a reminder when they "forget".
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
But "NEVER HIT your dog", eh, matty?
From: "Nevyn" <greatd...@badmama.com.au>
Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 20:05:45 +0800
Subject: Re: puppy wizzards training manual.
G'DAY STEVE.
I used to be like you.
Then I found a book...it was called... the
wits end dog training manual.... and then
there was light..and perfectly trained dogs.
--
Thankyou,
Nevyn
Nevyn E.D.
Veterinary Nurse & Animal Trainer
greatd...@badmama.com.au
"Yu agonna get whats comin' to you...for
all the bad bad things you to do your...dog"
________________________
"steve braun" <twopointerp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:2d60c10a.03112...@posting.google.com...
> twopointerp...@aol.com (steve braun) wrote in message
<news:2d60c10a.0311...@posting.google.com>...
> > Hello, Mr. puppy wizzard, how do i find a copy of
> > your manual. Do you have a link that takes me to it?
>
> > I think i would like to read it.
>
> > Now i have another question for you in regards to
> > walking your dog. How do you feel about the gentle
> > leader? I bought one for each of my pups and the
> > difference in walking them is unbelievable. If you are
> > not sure what the gentle leader is check out their web
> > site at www.premier.com. If you are as good as you say
> > you are i want to read your manual.
> > thanks,
> > Steve
> > P.s. by the way my pup doesnt pee as soon as i put
> > him in his crate its after he's been in for a while
> > and cant hold it anymore that he pee's
> Howdy, jerry,
> well i started reading your manual, Im going to
> perfectly honest with you I thought last night when
> i started reading your posts you were full of crap
> but the more i read the more i could tell that you
> really do care about dogs. That is why asked for
> a copy of your manual.
>
> I really like your analogy on barking that was very
> interesting and gave it a perspective i never even thought
> of. As far as your praising the dogs when they are
> misbehaving i still dont understand how that works (i
> didnt get all that far in the manual yet.
>
> But i must say my female was clawing at the couch so i
> praised her like you say to do, i praised her twice for
> it and she stopped and came over to me.
>
> So i think what you have to say has merit, And for one
> am anxious to finish the book and get started because
> i love my dogs and really am looking forward to interacting
> with them on a positive note all of the time.
>
> This may be a little premature jerry, but
> Thank you
> Steve
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
\
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have,
> Solo joined in and then lunged to the end of the
>leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
Sometimes my "voice of god" startles human
and dog, especially when the human didn't
see the inappropriate behaviour. --Matt.
Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92C1EC10BFE7au...@130.133.1.4...
Rosa Palmén wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> Anybody else got bilingual dogs?
Long ago my Hebrew was pretty good - but now I
only use "Chutza"(throat clearing 'ch') - "Out" when
it's reallyreally important that my dogs get away from
something.
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It A Sharp
Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack Wouldn't
Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't Take It. I Still
Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My
Cat," Melanie Lee Chang * mch...@lppi.ucsf.edu
Canine Behavioral Genetics Project
University of California, San Francisco
http://psych.ucsf.edu/K9BehavioralGenetics/
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about
> agility is that people seem to think that ALL dogs
> are fragile, shrinking flowers who cannot be
> corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take
correction so much to heart -- I'll try something
different. Right now, he's just getting the confidence
to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"I crate Rocky, even though he's 8.5 years old, but
only when I'm gone during summertime days -
maybe an hour at the most. (Other than hot days,
my dogs are always with me.)
While Friday has been totally reliable unsupervised
from the day I got him from a rescue, Rocky has not.
Rocky will go looking for food even in areas where
there's no possibility of food.
The good thing is that he likes his crate, runs for
it when I ask, and gets food when he's in it.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAAA!!!
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume
> that you are suggesting that the people knee the
> dog in the chest. If that's what you meant, just
> say it, instead of beating around the bush to avoid
> criticism from people like me. That kind of crap has
> got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods
> of dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking
> was to run faster than my dad and NOT GET
> CAUGHT. so what does that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my
pants. And sometimes my parents pretended not to
notice. In retrospect, that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training
> > MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
Oh? You mean LIKE THIS, matty?:
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 15 May 2005 16:03:05 GMT
Subject: Re: What does "bupkis" really mean
shelly said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> you've just described elliott. i don't think Lucy would
> have had a clue what to do with him, though. while he's
> easy and forgiving in terms of handling, i think his prey
> drive and dog aggression would've had her in tears.
Hmm. You've got a point. Rocky is dog-dominant, a
surprise to almost everyone - some of whom know him
very well. I wonder how well Lucy reads dog? If she
can't, she'd get some ugly surprises.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHHAHAAA!!!
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 24 Mar 2005 17:16:47
Subject: Re: help with identifing a dog breed
A mature dog comfortable in its surroundings often
won't need to physically assert its dominance.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 22 Dec 2004 16:58:38 GMT
A Useful Dog
... Rocky, OTOH, I crate when a new dog is introduced -
while he's quick to back off in times of trouble, he's
fairly dominant. -- --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAHAAAA!!!
"dallygirl" <kwickw...@hotmail.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many
> cases causing more harm than good.
Back at you with flat buckle collars. These are an
incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
with both hands.
It's a good thing that most of us are here because of
dogs' well-being and not an agenda.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------------
BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA~!~!~!
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Fri9927CEBBE142Aau...@rocky-dog.com...
Janet Boss <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I think a lot of dogs, particularly terrier breeds, don't
> belong in large group play environments. Actually, the
> more I think about dog parks and open day cares (not
> home situations and well organized care such as Matt
> provides),
I seem to get a lot of terriers here. Me and mine are great
with them - I set limits, Friday is the bad cop, Rocky is the
good cop.
> the less I like them and think they are recipes for
> disaster.
I've lost a couple of clients because my rules and
people skills are direct. I can envision disaster
and I'd rather not deal with it.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
Re: "Shit-Head" strikes again
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Fri988D833CAEB57au...@rocky-dog.com... "MauiJNP"
<jmh1...@ptd.net> said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>> I actually broke Kanyak, our GSD-Dobe mix, of
>> that habit. The second time he did it (it was the
>> buried guts of a slaughtered sheep) I grabbed him
>> by the collar and tossed him into the shower stall
>> yelling "banyo!" (the Turkish word for "bath!")
>> repeatedly as I washed him. Kanyak HATED baths.
>> Not too long afterwards he came across another
>> opportunity to roll in something vile and when I saw
>> him move towards it I shouted "banyo!" and that
>> stopped him cold. There were a few more chances to
>> reinforce the "conditioning" but never again did he
>> take a roll in the muck.
>
> that sounds like a great idea.
It works with the right conditioning, timing, and appropriate
correction. The right timing requires that you spend time
waiting for the action to occur naturally and then apply the
appropriate correction if your dog has already received
proper conditioning.
In OTW, do that kind of stuff only if you're extremely
confortable with your dog and he's extremely comfortable
with you.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "CourteHOWES Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first
time, spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth
and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled with
this but just ignore him and continue your normal
behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"
Borrowed from: "Puppy Raising Tips" from
professional trainers, John and Amy Dahl.
"Around four months many puppies can withstand a
correction. Unfortunately this is the time they start
teething and if their mouth hurts, they may act
generally sensitive. If this is the case, be patient and
wait for all those baby teeth to fall out.
In training, retrievers often respond to physical correction
better than verbal correction. While "NO!" is extremely
useful if puppy is about to bite an electrical cord or steal
food off the table, when you are teaching them something
(like obedience) a sharp jerk on their lead or swat with a
stick gets the message across with less emotion and less
effect on their confidence.
If they drop the dummy and act like their mouth hurts
when they are teething, stop all retrieving and wait for
their mouth to feel better. A correction should be just
severe enough to get the dog to respond.
Repeated weak corrections are very stressful to the dog."
================
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog
I Do Not Believe There Is A Single Circumstance
Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything But
Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want
to choke or beat a dog, or how any trainer could
possibly get a good working dog by making them
unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
frosty dahl.
lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:
"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.
lying frosty dahl, oakhill kennels wrote:
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.
CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.
When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished
If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"
(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.
terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
-------------------
LUCKY THING WE AIN'T GOT NO AGENDAS, eh??
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400
Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.
I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.
There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.
Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology
-------------------
Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:
"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.
From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.
You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
alert the world to animal abuse.
We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.
Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?
In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.
--Marshall Dermer
SEE?
THAT'S the SCIENCE of BEHAVIOR <{}; ~ ) >
Ted Mittelstaedt
>
> I'll note that while you go on and on and on and on and on
> and on and on and jesus christ do you go on and on, you
> failed to identify the actual problem with the proposal. At
> some point people involved in piracy are going to figure out
> how to do encryption in a non-moronic way. Impressive,
> *Ted!*
Uh, reread my last post:
"...Even today I'm starting to see more and more distribution of
encryption keys along with the locations on rapidfile.com and
others. Your not going to be able to detect a work if it's
encrypted...."
As for the rest of it - hey, have at it. Obviously you are positive
that the Internet works a particular way, you aren't interested in
finding out from people who actually run it how exactly it DOES
work, and you have a clear idea of what you want to build and
your slavering to build it. Great! Go do it! Then 3 years from now
when the idea has been ashcanned due to never working, maybe
Cisco will come along and buy the technology for pennies and
cherry pick the good bits out of it.
If you really want to build something that works, I would think
that you would want to put up your proposal in a public place
and beg very experienced people to pick it to pieces. Then
you would rework the parts that were explained wouldn't work,
and ask for the revised proposal to be picked apart again.
After a few iterations of that, you probably would have a
product that might actually work. But of course, it would be
a NIH product, and it sounds to me like that would be intolerable
to whoever is paying you to build this thing.
Ted
Melinda Shore
Ted Mittelstaedt <te...@toybox.placo.com> wrote:
>As for the rest of it - hey, have at it. Obviously you are positive
>that the Internet works a particular way, you aren't interested in
>finding out from people who actually run it how exactly it DOES
>work,
Hey, *Ted!*, I've written networking code you're almost
certainl running, I've chaired several working groups in the
IETF as well as the VoIP security group in the European
Telecommunications Standards Institute (where I also was a
member of the IP Camarilla in the TC SEC Lawful Intercept
Committee). Technology I developed has been standardized by
the ITU-T and PacketCable to support wiretap on cable
networks (thank you, thank you very much, I'm always pleased
to be of assistance to the community), and I work for a
company that basically prostitutes itself to its customers -
we pretty much don't build anything unless we've got
customers lined up in advance. I think we're in pretty good
shape on this one.
And, need I point out, I'm not the one who's working with
architectural models that range somewhere between faulty and
flat wrong, and that I'm not the one posting lengthy rants
based on incorrect assumptions. That is to say, I think I
have a lot better control over my argument than you've got
over yours, and if I were you I'd take my argument, sit it
down, and tell it to pull itself together. It's bordering
on the hysterical.
Third_Leg_Of_Satan_666
lyin animal murderin punk thug coward active acute chronic
life long incurable malignant maliciHOWES mental case,
"Melinda Shore" <sh...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:gigdl3$86m$1...@panix2.panix.com...
> In article <bags16-...@news.ipinc.net>,
> Ted Mittelstaedt <te...@toybox.placo.com> wrote:
>>As for the rest of it - hey, have at it. Obviously you are positive
>>that the Internet works a particular way, you aren't interested in
>>finding out from people who actually run it how exactly it DOES
>>work,
Oh, kinda just like HOWE these MENTAL CASES
resolve their DOG TRAININ an BEHAVIOR problems?
> Hey, *Ted!*, I've written networking code you're almost
> certainl running, I've chaired several working groups in the
> IETF as well as the VoIP security group in the European
> Telecommunications Standards Institute (where I also was a
> member of the IP Camarilla in the TC SEC Lawful Intercept
> Committee). Technology I developed has been standardized by
> the ITU-T and PacketCable to support wiretap on cable
> networks (thank you, thank you very much,
Yeah. All THAT just to hide her lifestyle
CHOICES from her momma <{}: ~ ( >
> I'm always pleased to be of assistance to the community),
Particularly when malinda got sumpthin to HIDE.
> and I work for a company that basically prostitutes itself to its
> customers -
SHAAAZZZAAAMMM~!~!~!
> we pretty much don't build anything unless we've got
> customers lined up in advance. I think we're in pretty
> good shape on this one.
For "prostitutes", that is <{}: ~ ( >
> And, need I point out, I'm not the one who's working with
> architectural models that range somewhere between faulty and
> flat wrong, and that I'm not the one posting lengthy rants
> based on incorrect assumptions.
Of curse not~!
> That is to say, I think I have a lot better control over
> my argument than you've got over yours, and if I were
> you I'd take my argument, sit it down, and tell it to pull
>itself together. It's bordering on the hysterical.
LIKE THIS:
"Students will modify their beliefs more when rewarded
for the way in which they carried out arguing for a
disagreeable position (role reward), than when rewarded
for the content of the argument," (Wallace, 1966).
======================
R.P.D.B. Syndrome
http://www.phule.net/mirrors/unskilled-and-unaware.html
http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf
UNSKILLED AND UNAWARE OF IT: HOW DIFFICULTIES
IN RECOGNIZING ONE'S OWN INCOMPETENCE LEAD
TO INFLATED SELF-ASSESSMENTS
Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants
scoring in the bottom quartile... grossly overestimated
their best performance and ability. Although their test
scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated
themselves to be in the 62nd.
- Never attribute to malice that which
can be adequately explained by stupidity.
- Sufficiently advanced incompetence is
indistinguishable from malice.
- Insufficiently advanced malice is
indistinguishable from incompetence.
------------------------
SEE?
Being WRONG ain't necessarily LYIN, like HOWE
*you* an your MENTAL CASE PALS prefer, malinda.
LIKE THIS:
From: sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore)
Date: 20 Aug 2006 14:35:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Purely Positive Luring for position
In article <1156095816.146530.143...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
beth...@nospam.goaway.con <beth...@aol.com> wrote:
> Wow, considering I live in Richmond VA,
> running across the crazy dog people in
> NYC is quite a feat.
Whoops, sorry. I'm so used to hearing
cockamamie stories about the people that
Tara runs across that I brain farted.
I'm sorry about that.
> I also tend not to know what to make of
> people who are deeply bugged by disapproval
> from any sort of stranger. or aquaintances
> too. If there are people that don't like
> the way my dogs are trained, well at least
> I can take my dogs out in public, have other
> people come to my house, know that my dogs
> are not the sort to bite children in the
> face, the list goes on.
That's what I figure. Jeff's not the only
person who seems really bothered by what
other people say - apparently at least some
of the sniffers of Jerry's butt got started
because Jerry said something offensive about
them and they can't get past it.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
------------------
So, here we got BRAIN FARTS & BLATANT LYING <{}: ~ ) >
SEE??
malinda wrote:
> I've never used a bark collar on any dog and I've never
> used any kind of electric/electronic collar, either.
True enough, PERHAPS, altHOWE malinda DOES ENDORSE
shockin chokin an MURDERIN innocent defenseless dumb critters..
LIKE THIS:
From: sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore)
Date: 5 May 2003 09:12:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Recomendations for Electronic collar traing?
In article <Xns93725C34240DEmbeauurkagurkasym...@130.133.1.4>,
Marcel Beaudoin <mbeaud...@caduceonlabs.com> wrote:
> What?? Please explain to me how an e-collar
> is a "quick-fix, damn-the-consequences method".
Some people do try to use them that way.
It's ill-informed, but it's inherent in
the nature of gizmo.
> Have you actually looked at how they work?
> have you investigated the methods that
> professional e-coller trainers use?
Have you? I've been doing this dog thing a
very long time, but I haven't investigated
electronic collars, myself, and am certainly
unqualified to discuss their use.
There are people here I respect a lot who
do use them and who I have every confidence
know what they're talking about and use them
skillfully, and I leave it up to them to talk about
how they're actually used in training.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
-------------
From: sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 18:41:54 -0400
Subject: Smart dogs and electronic fences
[]
This just came across the Siberian Husky
mushers mailing list:
"I used the Inotek invisible fence and it
worked well untill the sibes figured out
if they lie down within range to activate
the warning signal without the shock the
battery gets flat very quickly and then
they can go where they want!"
Hee.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
-------------
Hee, hee, eh, malinda?:
From: sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore)
Date: 27 Jun 2003 19:28:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Smart dogs and electronic fences
In article <bdijqn$svgf...@ID-87431.news.dfncis.de>,
jayjay <jjf...@notmail.com> wrote:
> Either way - they aren't a fool proof system.
I've never had any use for them - I just thought
this was a good story. Another good one is a
friend's Norwegian Elkhound who was also too
smart for her own good.
She used to twist the collar around so that
there was a lot of fur between the electrodes
and her skin, and then she'd blow right through
the fence.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
-------------
From: Maria Rost Rublee <mrub...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:30:36 GMT
Subject: Re: wireless containment
Kind2dogs <kind2d...@aol.com> wrote:
: Well, you seem to have your mind up but
: if you really want a very knowledgeable
: opinion they are *not so good* and your
: dog will probably end up dead.
: Paulette
???
What does this mean?
We have an invisible fence for our two dogs
and LOVE it. We could not have either dog
without it.
Maria
From: sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore)
Date: 7 Mar 2002 11:18:07 -0500
Subject: Re: wireless containment
In article <wILh8.1665$hi5.2...@grover.nit.gwu.edu>,
Maria Rost Rublee <mrub...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
>Kind2dogs <kind2d...@aol.com> wrote:
>" but if you really want a very knowledgeable
>: opinion they are *not so good* and your dog
>: will probably end up dead.
>
>???
>
>What does this mean?
It's a pretty radical overstatement of the
fact (and it is a fact) that many dogs run
through electronic fences and are hurt,
injured, or lost.
It's great that yours works for your dogs
and I certainly hope that continues, but
there are many dogs, and many breeds
of dogs (northern breeds, for example),
for which electronic fences are not the
safest option.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
--------
From: sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore)
Date: 7 Feb 2003 10:09:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Need ideas for preserving my electronic fence collar
In article <139d5a58.0302070654.47b63...@posting.google.com>,
Charles Gilley <cgil...@bravewc.com> wrote:
> Now she has learned that if she chews long
> enough on her collar and electronic fence
> attachment, she is free again. At $100 a
> pop, I cannot afford too many more of these
> adapters.
I have four Siberian Huskies and one Greta,
and I wouldn't rely on an electronic fence
to contain them.
Aside from the collar issue, a highly motivated
Siberian will run right through the fence and
then not be able to get back in.
I've got a 6' chain link fence that's been adequate
for keeping them in (I've never had an escape),
but people with good fences whose dogs nevertheless
go over or dig under tend to reinforce the fence with
poured concrete or buried railroad ties along the bottom
or pet grade (*not* livestock grade) hotwire at an
appropriate height.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
-------------
> And that's what happens when you get your information from Jerry.
You mean, like children learnin HOWE to become lyin animal
murderin CRIMINALLY INSANE MENTAL CASES from their
parents, malinda?
LIKE THIS?:
From: sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore)
Date: 11 Apr 2002 21:41:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Nortti Nortti Dogs
In article <rCpt8.47751$cN1.5...@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
Marie <m...@rogers.com> wrote:
> You Americans are making me *very*
> jealous, because even if I had something
> to trade in this swap meet, I wouldn't
> be able to get it across the border probably :-(
Good quality maple syrup, Peak Freen's ginger cookies,
Nanaimo bars, *good* tea (we get the same brands down
here but they put lower-quality tea in the bags), lots of stuff.
We will pay you, however, to keep poutine
out of the US.
When I was very young we used to smuggle
consumer electronics into Canada (gifts
for the family) and beer out of Canada
(Canadian beer wasn't yet being imported
into the US).
My parents would have my sisters and me sit
on the boxes, looking innocent as we drove
through customs.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
-------------
Hee, hee, eh, malinda you PATHOLOGICAL LIAR??
Abuse / Fear / Aggression / Hyperactivity / Shyness /
Depression / Suicide Attempts AIN'T Genetic Problems,
They're SPIRITUAL PROBLEMS,
Passed On From WON GeneratiHOWEN Of Abuser
To The Next,
Like The 100th Monkey Washin Fruit In The Stream.
After A While It's Not Just NORMAL, It's
-OBLIGATORY-
To Do OtherWIZE Would Be
DISRESPECTFUL
Of Your Parental Teachins.
The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME Is the Perfect Synergy Of
Love, Pride, Desire, Shame, Greed, Ego, Fear, Hate, Reflex,
Self Will, Arrogance, Ignorance, Predjudice, Cowardice,
Disbelief, Jealousy, Embarrassment, Embellishment, Guilt,
Anger, Hopelessness, Helplesness, Aversion, Attraction,
Inhibition, Revulsion, Repulsion, Change, Permanence,
Enlightenment, Insult, Attrition And Parental / ReligiHOWES /
Societal CONDITIONING;
*YOU ARE*
THE CRITTER YOU WAS TRAINED.
It Is The Perfect Fusion Of The Word..., In The Physical.
There Are NO GRAY AREAS
Between
RIGHT And WRONG.
"Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action
as separate, not the wise.
If any man knows one, he enjoys the fruit of both.
The level which is reached by wisdom
is attained
through right action as well.
He who perceives that the two are one knows the truth."
"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
indeed all creatures act according to their natures.
What is the use of compulsion then?
The love and hate which are aroused
by the objects of sense arise from Nature,
do not yield to them.
They only obstruct the path," -
- Bhagavad Gita,
adapted by Krishna with permission
from His OWN FREE copy of The Simply
Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE Wits' End
Dog Training Method manual <{) ; ~ ) >
ALL Temperament And Behavior Problems Are
CAUSED BY MISHANDLING
SEE?
> If you're concerned about getting your message across you
> might try to find some way to frame it that doesn't make you
> look like a walking illustration of the nature of the
> intelligence bell curve (somebody's got to be below
> average).
Oh, you mean, LIKE THIS?:
From: sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 10:06:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Suggestion for an electonic fence system
In article <dy3md.510092$mD.201895@attbi_s02>,
Julia Altshuler <jaltshu...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I can think of one better. That's a real
> fence with an invisible fence running along
> side it. If you have a jumper, a climber,
> a digger or an adventurer, the invisible
> fence keeps the dog from getting close
> enough to think about alternatives.
A hotwire is generally more reliable.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
------------
From: sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 10:48:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Suggestion for an electonic fence system
In article <Xns95A24D629CF9arfenarfhotmail...@130.133.1.4>,
KWBrown <arfenarfNOS...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Melinda, can you string a hot wire along
> the *bottom* of a chain-link fence to
> dissuade a dog from trying to go under?
>
> Our fence has a few small gaps in the bottom
> where the ground undulates a bit. Storm isn't
> remotely intersted, but the eventual puppy
> probably will be. Since he's likely to
> remain intact, I *really* want him to stay in.
No, you need to make sure that the wire doesn't ground
(which also means keeping weeds from growing around the wire).
Lots of people bury railroad ties, pour concrete, or bury
hardware cloth. If I have to go that route I would tend
to go with a hotwire or with concrete or hardware cloth.
railroad ties don't give you much of an advantage over
concrete and they're a lot of work to bury (although if you've
got some big, brawny men with a backhoe you're in
business [and lucky!]).
My other concern with railroad ties is that
they're treated with crap like creosote, which
I'd rather not bury on my property, especially
around my dogs.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
---------------
From: sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore)
Date: 15 Nov 2004 11:49:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Suggestion for an electonic fence system
In article <gP4md.99735$R05.71202@attbi_s53>,
Julia Altshuler <jaltshu...@comcast.net> wrote:
> But wouldn't the hotwire be something that
> could be touched by an unknowing human
> stranger?
Generally not. For one thing, it's run
inside the fence, about 9" off the ground,
and strung on an insulator.
For another thing a pet-grade hotwire is
lower voltage than a livestock-grade hotwire.
I've accidentally bumped up against a
livestock-grade hotwire and while it was
unpleasant it wasn't much more than unpleasant.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
----------------
From: sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore)
Date: 19 Aug 2006 07:14:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Purely Positive Luring for position
In article <pan.2006.08.19.03.33.17.507...@jdege.visi.com>,
Jeff Dege <jd...@jdege.visi.com> wrote:
> I only object to those who object to others
> using techniques that they choose not to use.
I know a heck of a lot of dog people and the
only "purely positive" people I've run across
are on this newsgroup.
They've been people like Leah, who I believe
has been an enthusiastic everything, and Jerry,
who aside from being mentally ill isn't actually
PP, and a small number of people with no dog
training background who don't understand what
they're talking about.
I once took a class where I arrived late on the first day,
walked in, and found everybody sitting on their dogs.
I choose not to sit on my dogs but I have
to say that I object to other people using
sitting on their dogs as a pre-emptive
exercise to show them who's boss, and I
don't think I'm being unreasonable.
I think we should avoid doing things that
create problems that wouldn't otherwise exist.
It's not that I'm following the sit-on-your-dog advocates
around and telling them I think they suck, but rather I'm
avoiding them.
I still can't figure out who you're talking
about. When I asked you to be specific you
went back into "some people" mode and now
you're in "you're not the boss of me" mode.
The only soi-disant PPers I can come up with
are a handful of meatheads who post here and
who seem to be almost universally disrespected.
Why you think that you need to post several
times about someone like Lucy Afar not being
the boss of you escapes me, frankly.
I think it's a given that people like Lucy
aren't the boss of you.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
-------------------------
From: sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore)
Date: 19 Aug 2006 14:45:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Purely Positive Luring for position
In article <1156011822.659443.21...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
beth...@nospam.goaway.con <beth...@aol.com> wrote:
> Unfortunatly I have had to deal with several
> "purely positive" people n the flesh.
With all due respect, it sounds like you've
run across every crazy dog person in NYC.
I enjoy your stories, but I'm not sure how
typical they are. I'd expect to see more
PPers here if it were that pervasive, and
I really have no use for the whole "some
people say" thing.
I also tend not to know what to make of
people who are deeply bugged by disapproval
from inconsequential strangers.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
-------------
From: sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore)
Date: 19 Aug 2006 16:51:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Purely Positive Luring for position
In article <wgKFg.143306$1i1.47293@attbi_s72>,
Robin Nuttall <robi...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> As Melinda says, I really know very few
> people who identify themselves as "pure
> positive" trainers, and to a one they're
> nuts and also wrong,
I have never, ever, ever run across a
musher who identifies as PP, but I'll
bet you could have guessed that.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
----------------------------
Hee, hee AGAIN, eh, malinda?
An NHOWE I'll "make you look like a walking illustration
of the nature of the intelligence bell curve (somebody's got
to be below average)." <{}'; ~ ) >
HOWEDY malinda you pathetic miserable stinkin lyin
animal murderin punk thug coward active acute chronic
life long incurable malignant maliciHOWES mental case,
"Melinda Shore" <sh...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:ggv1c7$iim$1...@panix2.panix.com...
> In article
> <612fe59e-d347-429c...@a12g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
> gayle <rosi76i...@ymail.com> wrote:
>> A dog's natural instinct is to please you
INDEEDY~!
ALL TEMPERAMENT And BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS
ARE CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
ALL Critters Only Respond In PREDICTABLE INNATE
NORMAL NATURAL INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.
>> so when you use positive reinforcement method,
>> you're giving your dog more time and probability
>> to use the dog's own mind.
That's CORRECTO~!:
"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.
Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At
UofOH Oxford That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive
Dogs Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC.
Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific
Management Of Doggies.
"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS
were moved to a delayed contingency the behavoir and
learning immediately deteriorated."
"Valette 1966 is a complete trivialization of
scientific findings. It overstates the case for
reinforcement theory. No careful researcher
would contend that operant techniques CAN
ANY THING MORE than modify SHORT
TERM BEHAVIOR in a highly controlled
and limited environment with a large number
of skillful experimenters.
Certainly the most elaborate studies have shown
that the withdrawal or temprary inefficiency of
the reward system is immediately followed by
CESSATION of the programmed behavior.
-------------------
> On the upside, she's probably not the original
> author of that extremely unusual sentence.
Yeah. OTOH, she's probably NOT the author of THIS IDIOCY:
Here's what happens when a TOURIST observes malinda
driving her HIGHLY TRAINED competitioin sled dog team:
From: sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore)
Date: 25 Nov 2007 10:09:41 -0500
Subject: Re: prong collar caution
In article Vu92j.7651$r81.6487@trndny05,
filly <fi...@verizan.net> wrote:
> Don't you love it when the dogs do everything right and
> someone is actuallywatching!
Well, it's going to take a lot of doing everything right and
frankly a lot of training to make up for early last week,
where someone was walking her Australian Shepherd
cross along the road as we came up the section of trail that
paralleled it. My dogs went nuts, pulling towards them and
barking their heads off (and they rarely bark). Ideally I'd
be able to park the rig and pull the dogs around, but even
though I had the brakes locked on the rig they were still
pulling it. So, I knew that if I got off the dogs would
take off after her.
I dropped the snow hook, which I've been using as a ground
brake, but it landed prong-side up and that only compounded
the problem because as the dogs were pulling us forward the
snow hook was coming under the rig and the prongs were
inching towards the tires, which would have been shredded
(snow hooks:
http://www.nooksackracing.com/dog_sled_brakes_hooks.html).
This poor woman was clearly trying to pretend that a team
of four dogs wasn't barking their heads off at her, trying to
pretend that they weren't trying to come over for a visit,
trying to pretend it was just a normal walk down the road.
And in the meantime my dogs effectively got away with really
bad behavior.
So, a friend is coming over today to be an attractive
nuisance on the trails while we work on "on by," and yes,
I was pleasantly surprised when the dogs didn't try to go
visit Tom, standing in the hedgerow.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
BWEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
>> This method ensures your dog to learn lessons that
>> are more meaningful and it will be more attached to
>> what is being taught.
INDEEDY~!
> Or that one.
LikeWIZE, THIS WON:
Subject: ALERT: Help save Iditarod dogs from ignorant idiots
Re: Musher dog beater, Ramy Brooks (www.ramybrooks.com)
HOWEDY malinda you pathetic miserable stinkin pathological
lyin dog abusing punk thug coward active acute chronic long term
incurable mental case,
"Melinda Shore" <sh...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:etr16h $ms...@panix2.panix.com...
> In article <14618-460094F2-...@storefull-3253.bay.webtv.net>,
> Judith Althouse <judyaltho...@webtv.net> wrote:
>> Thanks for posting this information.
>
> *Thanks?* The guy is a shithead
The ***"SHITHEAD"*** didn't BEAT his dog, malinda.
> who has no participation here beyond showing
> up here every March trying to stir up anti-Iditarod
> sentiment.
You mean he posts every year when the IDIOTarod injury /
death figures and incidents of cruelty are published <{): ~ ( >
> If you want to talk about what happened
The "NON SHIT HEAD" DOG ABUSER BEAT
HIS DOG an got CAUGHT, malinda <{}: ~ ( >
> that's probably a good thing
Then HOWE COME do you DEFEND it?
> but do it in a new thread.
You mean where the ORIGINAL TEXT won't be noticed, malinda?
You got a very long posted case history of hurtin
intimidatin an murderin innocent defenseless dumb
critters an LYIN abHOWET it.
---------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> I think it scans rather like text out of a
> translation program (Babelfish, etc.).
Rather nicely done; I'll have to look into it <{}'; ~ ) >
> The weird use of the infinitive ("ensures your dog to learn")
> and the not-very-idiomatic use of some common words tends
> to suggest that this isn't a native English speaker,
Ahhhh, a EXXXCELLENT REASON to use Babblefish, eh, malinda??
> as opposed to someone who are dum.
You mean, "DIMWITS" from "STUPIDLAND":
"jeebus but you're a selfish, inconsiderate dimwit."
> obDog: I think it's safe to say that we
> all want puppy reports from Katie.
No, we all wanna SEE malinda's own POSTED CASE
HISTORY of HURTIN INTIMDIATIN an MURDERIN
innocent defenseless dumb critters an LYIN abHOWET
it <{}: ~ ( >
LIKE THIS:
Here's you MURDERIN your own horse due
to your colossal ignorameHOWES malignant
self defensive idiocy:
Equusite.com
Navicular Problems
"Navicular problems are not a disease, they are man-made."
Melinda Shore wrote:
> In article <Xns97E06728444B7amesnatlzooyahoo...@130.133.1.4>,
> Mary Healey <mhhea...@iastate.edu> wrote:
>"Around here?"?!? Where would that be, the universe?
> Lameness and horses are like peas and carrots, Mutt'n
> Jeff, oxy and moron.
Yeah, but when I moved back here after a few years in the
SF Bay Area I was pretty surprised by the difference in
frequency.
> From foot soreness to stifle injuries to bruises and
> seromas, stringhalt and tendonitis, he tried them
> all. It's very educational, if somewhat frustrating.
I'll bet! Most of the lameness I've had to deal with myself
were pretty obvious - arthritis, navicular disease, etc.
The last horse I had was pretty much the last straw and
drove me out of horses - she was intermittently off with
what looked like neurological problems and we tried pretty
much everything to try to figure out what was going on but
kept coming up empty. Eventually she went into one episode
that was so bad and so persistent that I ended up having her
euthanized.
---------------
BWEEEAAAAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!
Navicular Problems
WRITTEN BY: Cheryl Sutor [October 7, 2002]
The most common cause of locomotor lameness in horses is
found in the navicular area of the horse's hoof. The "hows"
and "whys" of navicular problems are often written-off as
"un-known". I have decided to write this article to clear up
the confusion that is commonly spread about this problem,
which has grown to epidemic proportions.
I will define navicular problems, discuss how and why they
exist and give advice on preventing and treating these
problems in your horse.
The terms "Navicular Disease" or "Navicular Syndrome" are
often used to define navicular problems a horse may have.
However, neither of these terms should be used to define
navicular problems. Using the word "disease" has never
been justly defined when referring to navicular problems.
Navicular problems are not a disease, they are man-made.
The word "syndrome" is defined as: a commonly recurring
group of symptoms of unknown cause. The cause of navicular
problems IS known, and therefore, the word "syndrome" also
is not a correct identifier.
So, for the purpose of this article, I will use the term
"navicular problems" throughout.
Navicular problems are completely man-made through
improper trimming, short-term or long-term shoeing,
and/or inadequate natural environment throughout a
horse's life. This improper care can cause problems in
the navicular area of the hoof, not to mention a plethora
of problems within the entire horse.
--------------
From:
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laborat...@HotMail.Com
Date: 7 Nov 2006 16:07:07 -0800
Subject: Re: Eats Everything, Sticks, Rocks
HOWEDY malinda you miserable stinkin lyin animal
abusin punk thug coward active acute chronic long
term incurable mental case,
Melinda Shore wrote:
> In article <2006110614034416807-montana@wildhackcominvalid>,
> montana wildhack <mont...@wildhack.com.invalid> wrote:
> > Teach your dog what "leave it" and "drop it" mean.
Buggy Sky means AFTER the dog has STOLEN STUFF to swallow.
> > I'd Google those and read through the articles.
Yeah. We'll find YOUR OWN dogs destroyin an swallowin STUFF.
> > Different people have different ideas
> > about how to train these commands
INDEED? Apupriate handlin an trainin AIN'T a matter
of PREFERENCE or OPINION, it's SCIENTIFIC FACT.
> > and it can be helpful to recognize what
> > those differences are.
Those "DIFFERENCES" are the DIFFERENCES
between LIFE or DEATH <{): ~ ( >
> Pica is a psychological/neurological disorder
Pica is an OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE DISORDER
CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
> and "drop it" doesn't really help very much.
INDEEDY. Looks like that's all there is to it, eh malinda???
> I knew one very nice dog who had to have surgery
> (rocks in the gut) a couple of times and ultimately
> the owners decided that there really wasn't anything
> they could do and the third time they had her euthanized.
Oh? Oh, you mean like HOWE you MURDERED your horse for
a similar "INCURABLE PROBLEM" caused by MISHANDLING.
> This was in a medium-sized mushing kennel.
EXXXPERTS, eh malinda???
Like yourself!
BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAAAAA!!!
> They kept her on sand but as soon as they let her off her
> tieout for play time she'd make a beeline to the rocks.
> Worse, she'd scoop rocks when they were out training.
Yeah, and the ignorameHOWESES didn't know HOWE to TRAIN
their dog like you didn't know HOWE to pupperly handle your DEAD
HORSE an MURDERED IT JUST LIKE HOWE YOU DONE <{}: ~ ( >
REMEMBER malinda???
> I'd think, though,
No you wouldn't you pathetic miserable stinkin lyin simpleton.
> that in a one-dog household it should be manageable as
> long as the owner accepts that they're going to have to
> be a lot more vigilant than they'd have to be with a
> more typical dog.
Oh? You mean MANAGE, AVOID an SUPERVISE, malinda?
Here's someMOORE "DEEPLY UNCOOL" f
rom malinda's CASE HISTORY:
Subject: semi OT- water dish
From: Melinda Shore
malinda wrote:
> They're heavy when full and they're one of the few
> things that Eclipse hasn't seen fit to relocate within
> the house
Well HOWE COME would she WANT to what with all the
other GOOD STUFF you provide for her to play with?
> (last week I found a lightbulb in her crate,
Like THAT for EXXXAMPLE. NHOWE THAT'S CREATIVITY.
You should encourage your dogs to do more play / learnin / trainin
activities. Dogs are like wet sponges, don't you know!
HOWEver, The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard
can't think of ANYTHING MOORE DANGERHOWES
for a doggy to PLAY with, malinda. Perhaps you should
offer her an alternate?
Try TRADING UP for sumpthin of higher value. Perhaps
you can offer to let her make her own choice of say,
ANY TWO items from your bedroom in EXXXCHANGE?
> for pete's sake -
Ahhh, yes, Pete. That's Laura's dog you was tellin
abHOWET HOWE to post through The Freakin Simply
Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Forums <{): ~ ) >
> I have no idea where she got it from).
Perhaps she got it from your bedroom, malinda?:
http://www.employees.org/~shore/trashedbedroom2.jpg
You might wanna ask janet or matty HOWE to manage
and supervise your doggys so they won't steal STUFF
from your garbage?
> I think it would be kind of an effort
> to tip one of those over.
You mean instead of just trainin them not to do it?
--------------
Welcome to REALITY you miserable lying dog abusing mental case:
From: lucyaa...@claque.net
Date: 22 Jul 2005 13:13:04 -0700
Subject: Re: For Handsome Jack Morrison:
Collars - belated reply
Melinda Shore wrote:
> In article <fii2e19ad371r3kq9t1nvkbfrmog2v3...@4ax.com>,
> shelly <scouvre...@bluemarble.net> wrote:
> > you're being disingenuous. i have no desire to
> > train my dog not to raid the trash or counter surf.
> > i've no doubt i could train her not to do either,
> > but i simply don't care enough to be bothered. so,
> > what, exactly, is your point?
>
> I do have a desire to have my dogs not raid the trash or
> counter surf, and guess what? They don't. Being dogs,
> however, they had to learn.
But you have no desire to train your dogs not to
ruin your bedroom in your absence, obviously.
http://www.employees.org/~shore/trashedbedroom2.jpg
It's what the trained dogs of our friend Melinda
have done, when left alone at home.
Lucy.
> --
> Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - s...@panix.com
> Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
---------------------------
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
Thurs,Jun 16 2005 4:17 am
Subject: Re: Puppy Wizard - Report, Day Two
HOWEDY malinda,
Melinda Shore wrote:
> In article <robin4joy-49BEBF.23045015062.....@news.west.cox.net>,
> Robin <robin4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> [nothing of value]
"Success!" is what Robin wrote, malinda.
Robin wrote that she CURED her 12 year old dogs
separation anXXXIHOWESNESS NEARLY INSTANTLY
using her FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{);~ ) >
> jeebus but you're a selfish, inconsiderate dimwit.
That so? Didn't you want to know HOWE she done it, malinda?
> Plonk.
---------------------------
HOWEDY matty,
Rocky wrote:
> Robin said in rec.pets.dogs.health:
> > Jerry, you give the lying dog abusing punk thug coward
> > mental cases too much credit for the ability to influence
Naaah, The Amazing Puppy Wizard was just BAITING
these lying dog abusing punk thug coward mental
cases again <{); ~ ) >
> You really are a piece of work.
INDEEDY, matty. Robin studied and followed the
INSTRUCTIONS in her FREE COPY of The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual and REPORTED
her 100% NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS RIGHT
HERE on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Forums And SCHOOL Of HARD KNOCKS And
HUMAN BEHAVIOR RESEARCH LABORATORIES,
matty <{); ~ ) >
You're settin in it <{); ~ ) >
> Keep this out of the health groups, 'kay?
Dogs DIE from separation anXXXIHOWESNESS, matty, JUST
LIKE HOWE your own DEATHLY ILL dog Rocky is DYIN from
STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE aka The Puppy
Wizard's SYNDROME, on accHOWENT of you're a lyin dog
abusin punk thug coward MENTAL CASE, matty, and you
can't post your lies and idiocy here abHOWETS
nodoGgamenedMOORE <{); ~ ) >
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHHAHAAAA!!!
Subject: Re: advice needed on severely neglected Eskie
HOWEDY malinda, you pathetic miserable stinkin rotten
lyin slanderin dog abusin punk thug coward active acute
chronic life long incurable malignant maliciHOWES MENTAL
CASE, FRAUD an SCAM ARTIST,
"Melinda Shore" <sh...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:g64cut$ngg$1...@panix2.panix.com...
> In article <48858bfc$0$25521$ecde...@news.coretel.net>,
> Paul E. Schoen <pst...@smart.net> wrote:
>>I am sharing my experiences [ ... ]
paulie jerked choked and intimidated his "rescue" dog
Muttley to make IT pals with his DEAD KAT Photon
TILL IT WENT INSANE. THEN he "rescued" his second
only ever dog Lucky and then DUMPED IT at a KILL
SHELTER, where IT was "placed in a forever HOWES"
within WON WEEK, despite bein a shy Pit Bull <{}: ~ ( >
> Paul, there's no reason whatsoever to think that Muttley's
> problems have anything to do with what's going on with
> the Eskie.
Of curse not. The new poster PROBABLY don't jerk an choke
and intimidate his dogs like HOWE you and your PALS here
PREFER.
LIKE THIS:
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss
Here's janet's CUSTOME MADE pronged spiked pinch choke collar:
http://tinyurl.com/5m6ppt
AND LIKE THIS:
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...
He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
Janet Boss
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
Do you think the citronella collar is CRUEL
cause the SMELL LINGERS after the dog's
been sprayed in the face and the dog won't
know HOWE COME IT was MACED?
janet CONtinues:
> > My dogs are not human children wearing fur- they are DOGS.
> > I don't have anything against electronic bark collars, but they
> > should be used in conjunction with actually working at training
> > your dog(s).
They're DUMB ANIMALS these MENTALLY ILL LYING
DOG ABUSERS HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER.
-------------------
LIKE THIS:
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote
<snip>
If I did not have to worry about my cat, I would
probably keep him, and I am certain I could avoid
any more dangerous episodes. I probably would
not have taken him to obedience classes at this time
if that was not such a difficult issue, and if people
here had not essentially shamed me into doing so.
Then he would only be a bratty dog with a mind of
his own, but he would not have been identified as
dangerous.
--------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA~!~!~!
Here's janet's REAL LIFE IN PERSON "student" paul:
#2 - 6/05/07
>> When I was training him under Janet's supervision
>> I was instructed to give it a ? firm yank as a correction.
>
> I advised you to use a prong collar, not give firm
> yanks on a chain choke collar. I hate the things.
>
>> She was able to get his attention with
>> just a quick tug, but I had to yank on it
>> hard enough to lift him off his feet to get
>> him to respond. Looking back now, I think
>> it was based on his fear, which he had for
>> her (as an unknown), but not for me
>> (whom he had learned to trust).
> He wasn't afraid of me. He knew I was a
> confident trainer. Fear has no place in dog
> training, as I told you THEN.
> Janet
It seems to me that applying stern corrections, by
popping a choker chain, prong collar, or whatever,
is a way to ensure compliance by instilling a fear
of further punishment.
Sure, if it is administered very consistently
by a confident trainer, the dog soon learns
to obey. There was no positive reinforcement,
so what remains is negative.
Also, I recall the time you were going to show me
how I could get Muttley to take his rawhide treat
from me without lunging for it. When you offered
it to him, he refused to take it. This IMHO is likely
a fear behavior.
Things have changed a lot since then, and I have
learned a lot, and Muttley has settled down quite
a bit. I probably still give him too much freedom
to think on his own, but that's just my way of
doing things, and that's probably not going to
change much. He may never win an obedience
medal, but I don't think he is dangerously out
of control, either.
Paul and Muttley
"I thought I was told that the way to get the dog to go
down was to make him sit and then step onthe leash.
That was awkward and didn't seem to work.
I will confess that I only tried the "down" position
once or twice at home, and I also often used it
instead of "Off" when I wanted him to stop
jumping on me or elsewhere I didn't want him to be.
I had to give him corrections every few seconds,
and also just about kick him, to keep him at my
left side.
Muttley is really a very sweet and loving dog, but
he needs more socialization with other dogs. However,
it is very likely that I will have him put down in a week."
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote
It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday),
-----------------------
> You don't have either the experience or the expertise to
> have even the wildest hope of recognizing parallels and
> differences.
Oh, you mean, LIKE THIS?:
R.P.D.B. Syndrome
http://www.phule.net/mirrors/unskilled-and-unaware.html
http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf
UNSKILLED AND UNAWARE OF IT: HOW DIFFICULTIES
IN RECOGNIZING ONE'S OWN INCOMPETENCE LEAD
TO INFLATED SELF-ASSESSMENTS
Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants
scoring in the bottom quartile... grossly overestimated
their best performance and ability. Although their test
scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated
themselves to be in the 62nd.
- Never attribute to malice that which
can be adequately explained by stupidity.
- Sufficiently advanced incompetence is
indistinguishable from malice.
- Insufficiently advanced malice is
indistinguishable from incompetence.
------------------------
SEE?
> A new poster has no way of knowing that you're
> bone-ignorant about dogs.
You mean, instead of just bein a lyin sneaky arrogant
incompetent cruel viciHOWES and pathetic sociopath,
like yourself and your PALS here, malinda?:
From: michael <c...@dogtv.com>
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 01:01:53 GMT
Subject: Re: Training with Wits End
Melinda Shore wrote:
> In article 3e60d...@clear.net.nz,
> Paul B <NOS...@clear.net.nz> wrote:
>> People are invited to read Jerry's manual and draw
>> their own conclusions, just as they are entitled to
>> naively attend a Koehler dog training course and
>> draw their own conclusions.
>
> By stating the choice like this you're implying, perhaps
> deliberately, that the choice is between Jerry and Koehler,
> that if you're not following Jerry's mish-mash of stolen
> material then you're necessarily hanging your dog. This
> ridiculous construction is why people really dislike Jerry
> rather than simply ignoring him. Aside from people taking
> personal affront, it's a lie.
You tell lies about Jerry every time you open your fat mouth you
stupid ugly despicable defamating c#@t from heel. You just said
he has no dogs and that he's not a dog trainer. Both massive
defamatory lies, designed to defame and discredit, you dumbfucking
fugly fatass ugly dumb fucking c&#t from heel.
What the fuck planet do you live on that you think you
can get away with this crap and then turn around and
call somebody a liar ???
You and your pals lie and slander every time you say Jerry stole
his methods and you lie every time you talk about the "original
sources" that you never provide.
You tell lie upon lie upon lie until you suffocate in your own
bullshit. There's not a dog trainer alive with a mOORe original
and a mOORe unique and un"stolen" methodogy than Jerry Howe.
It's not our fault that you can't get a date! Take your lies and
bitterness and poison somewhere else. YOu have nothing to
offer here but LIES, SLANDER, INNUENDO, BITTERNESS,
and SELF-HATE.
Jerry is a SAINT compared to you.
At least he does SOMETHING good for people.
You do nothing. You are wretched and despicable
and beneath the most lowly of contempt.
You disgust me utterly.
As liars come, you're about the best that Usenet has to offer.
You have no shame and you have no conscience.
Here's a newsgroup for you:
rec.old.bitter.lonely.jewish.BUSH(as in
George)loving.lesbian.SUVdriving.terrorist.supporters
go there Malinda, Queen of Snakes.
Begone and trouble us noMOORE
--
this is michael
reporting live...
http://dogtv.com
with the all
new & exciting
dogtv.com couchcam
------------------
> It would cost you absolutely nothing to keep your trap
> shut and it would demonstrate a little maturity and
> self-control on your part, and I expect that's what the
> problem is.
INDEED? Perhaps CON-TROLL is YOUR problem, eh, malinda?
You know, it's said that we FEAR and HATE MOST in others of
which WE SEE IN HOWERSELVES <{}: ~ ( >
Here's malinda's SUCCESS trainin her own dogs not to
attack innocent defenseless dumb critters. malinda can't
even CON-TROLL her "sled dog team" to go past a
innocent defenseless puppy on leash with his owner or
try to MURDER her other dogs or her own kat:
Subject: Re: prong collar caution
In article <Vu92j.7651$r81.6487@trndny05>, filly
<fi...@verizan.net> wrote:
> Don't you love it when the dogs do everything
> right and someone is actually watching!
Well, it's going to take a lot of doing everything
right and frankly a lot of training to make up for
early last week, where someone was walking her
Australian Shepherd cross along the road as we came
up the section of trail that paralleled it.
My dogs went nuts, pulling towards them and
barking their heads off (and they rarely bark).
Ideally I'd be able to park the rig and pull the dogs
around, but even though I had the brakes locked on the
rig they were still pulling it.
So, I knew that if I got off the dogs would take off after her.
I dropped the snow hook, which I've been using as a ground
brake, but it landed prong-side up and that only compounded
the problem because as the dogs were pulling us forward the
snow hook was coming under the rig and the prongs were
inching towards the tires, which would have been shredded
(snow hooks:
http://www.nooksackracing.com/dog_sled_brakes_hooks.html).
This poor woman was clearly trying to pretend that a team
of four dogs wasn't barking their heads off at her, trying to
pretend that they weren't trying to come over for a visit,
trying to pretend it was just a normal walk down the road.
And in the meantime my dogs effectively
got away with really bad behavior.
So, a friend is coming over today to be an attractive
nuisance on the trails while we work on "on by," and yes,
I was pleasantly surprised when the dogs didn't try to go
visit Tom, standing in the hedgerow.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
BWEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Seems pullin the dogs arHOWEND when they GO INSANE and
try to ATTACK innocent passersbye is more PRACTICAL and
EFFECTIVE than actually TRAININ them. HOWE COME do
you suppHOWES malinda didn't SING to them <{}: ~ ) >
From: DelusionalDimensionsRecoveryDDR @i-love-dogs.com
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 06:08:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Traveling with your dog
<me19...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:cf2a7026-e03d-4cdb-
b4d3-0fea16f8b...@y43g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 6, 1:13 am, sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore) wrote:
> In article <6b1b18f8-b528-46d8-b020-
> 63e5133f4...@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> <chm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Has anyone usedwww.imaspammer.netto book either a flight or a
>> vacation package? My husband and I want to go on vacation with
>> our 2 labs and just found this company. They're the only
>> company I've ever seen that let's you fly with your dogs in
>> the cabin.
> It was an unbelievable nightmare. Never again!
Please IGNORE malinda and her entourage of pathetic miserable
stinkin lyin animal murderin punk thug coward active accute
chronic life long incurable malignant maliciHOWES mental cases
and dog trainin obfuscationists.
>> Have you expanded upon your reasons for saying that
>> using that business "was an unbelievable nightmare" ?
malinda has never heard of the company and if she ever
DARED to travel with her dogs in the cabin of a plane
she'd cause everyWON to be in FEAR of her dogs GOIN
INSANE and attackin each other some more <{}: ~ ( >
LIKE THIS:
From: Melinda Shore
Date: Fri, May 6 2005 9:08 am
Email: s...@panix.com (Melinda Shore)
[]
I realized that the new dog honeymoon period was over last
Thursday when Crow attacked Image and did enough damage to
require a visit to the vet (deep puncture wound on the left
foreleg).
Image is a stoic but this one left her crying.
Dog fights make me nauseous, and it turned out to be a
queasy weekend when Crow attacked Eclipse on Friday and
Cinder on Saturday. I was feeling a little panicky,
wondering whether or not we'd be able to get the situation
in hand and prevent this from becoming a continuing problem,
and thinking about the logistics of keeping Crow separated
from the others when I'm not there.
Then I realized: 1) Crow had attacked each female exactly
once and hadn't attacked any of them again (or even raised a
lip), 2) she hadn't attacked any of the males, and 3)
several days had passed, not only without incident but with
everybody frolicking together as they had before. Crow had
apparently decided where she wanted to be in the pack (on
top) and she had deliberately and methodically gone about
communicating her intentions, and it was settled quickly and
that was that. I've never seen a dog do anything that looks
quite so organized, and while I was quite distressed while
it was going on I'm still kind of impressed at her
deliberateness.
--
> Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - s...@panix.com
> Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
Perhaps malinda would calm the other distraught
passengers her dogs PAINICKED with her SINGIN?:
LIKE THIS:
"I'm also a fan of picking up the rear end of one of the
dogs, not only because it's a distraction (although if the
dog is really overwrought it simply won't notice at first -
another reason I have my doubts about the thumb-up-the-butt
technique) but also because the dog partially loses traction
and mobility.
I like to sing "The Girl From Ipanema" while I'm holding
onto a dog's hind end during a fight - it keeps my breathing
regular and helps me stay calm, plus it's just a really great
song." [That's my favorite. The image of Melinda singing "The
Girl From Ipanema" while holding a dog's rear end will always
spring before my eyes from now on, whenever I'll be thinking of
what bliss being a mainstream trainer must be]
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.pets.dogs.behavior/msg/a61c39..
> It seems to me that a situation in which injury is a highly
> possible outcome is one in which you ought to take extra
> care in providing responsible advice.
Oh? You mean LIKE THIS, malinda?:
lucyaa...@claque.net wrote:
> Melinda Shore wrote:
> In article <PiVCe.9349$2h1.6011@trnddc05>,
> Christy <easily.amu...@gtenospam.net> wrote:
> > > Ahhhh. I didn't catch that, 'cos I have that name
> > > in my killfile. Very, very good catch, Paula. Guess
> > > that's another sock puppet revealed...
> This kind of thing is pretty easy to check. Most news
> interfaces stick the poster's IP address somewhere in the
> header. Google constructs an "Injection-Info" header.
> In this case Jerry was posting from 24.110.196.12 and Loser
> from 217.132.121.111. Other fields in the header are
> consistent with the two posts coming not just from different
> addresses but from different continents. I think that in
> this case what probably happened is that Jerry gave a
> virtuoso display of his complete inability to master an
> editor.
> I realize that Lucy is such a bonehead that you can't help
> thinking that it's not possible for someone to be such a
> dolt and there must be some other explanation, but as I've
> said before, it's in the nature of averages that somebody/
> something has to be below average, and thus it is that we
> have Lucy.
Sure. Not all of us are gifted enough to sing "The
Girl of Ipanema" while simultaneously holding a dog's
rear end (how do you do it with a Great Dane or a
Saint Bernard, Melinda?
THAT must be a sight to see!),
so a simple-minded person like me needs
a simple working method like Jerry's.
Lucy
> As nearly as I can tell from this post and others,
> you've never dealt with a serious behavior problem
Oh? You mean LIKE THIS, malinda?:
Welcome to YOUR OWN REAL LIFE REALITY you
pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lying dog abusing mental
case:
From: Melinda Shore
Date: Sat, Dec 15 2001 10:51 am
Email: s...@panix.com (Melinda Shore)
In article <2tpS7.272$4O....@news1.bloor.is>,
Marie <m...@rogers.com> wrote:
> The first night, I fed them beth at the same time, [ ... ]
I'd suggest that Beth should have some say in this.
Anyway, in my pack I do allow negotiation but I do not
allow fighting. I also don't allow them to raid one another's
food. Aside from the fact that I want to be able to keep an
eye on how each is doing, one is on a veterinary diet and
another receives medication on her food. So, I crate feed
them. It doesn't sound to me like you've got a problem.
I'd just keep them separate during meals, and if a fight
does break out I'd reprimand each and give both a timeout.
It takes two to fight.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
From: Jerry Howe
Date: Sat, Dec 15 2001 2:24 pm
Email: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
So, you're gonna teach them not to fight by
reprimanding them both... BRILLIANT.
That's where allelomimetic behavior comes in...
Bye! j;~(
Perhaps she learned THAT from YOU malinda? THAT'S
called ALLELOMIMETIC BEHAVIOR. THAT'S HOWE
COME we DON'T PUNISH and INTIMIDATE dogs for
FEAR AGGRESSION.
LIKE THIS:
From: Melinda Shore
Date: Fri, May 6 2005 2:26 pm
Email: s...@panix.com (Melinda Shore)
In article <rcan71lebvnqnbo7qiqvb6t2rjbtrcj...@4ax.com>,
sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com> wrote:
> Melinda didn't say whether the other bitches fought
> back much, or whether she (Melinda) stopped the
> altercation before they had a chance to.
Combination. The other dogs really didn't fight back (I
was quite surprised that Image gave up, but she's 9 (holy
cow - how'd that happen?) and is slowing down a bit.
I did break up all the fights and after the last one
(Cinder) came down hard on Crow, pinning her to the
floor until she calmed down.
> I'm not suggesting that Melinda should have let them "fight it out",
I really think that letting them do that would tend to make
things a lot worse and is more likely to lead to escalations.
You can get a decent read on the dogs without
letting them duke it out, in my experience.
Cinder has always been submissive but Image was very much
in charge, and that's clearly changed from what I've seen
around things like waiting to go in and out, who sits where
when we do group treats, and so on.
At any rate, any dominance displays much beyond
a head fake are not tolerated here.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - s...@panix.com
Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
-------------
In malinda's "REALITY BASED-COMMUNITY" the truth
and facts AIN'T so much important as their FEELINS abHOWET
HOWE she and her MENTAL CASE PALS WISH things actually
were, and based on those WISHES they fabricate their fantasy
EXXXPERIENCES which they can never achieve in REAL LIFE
and relate them to their equally incomptent mentally ill pals on my
forums.
IN OTHER WORDS, malinda and company are
INSANE LYIN DOG ABUSIN COWARDS <{}: ~ ( >
malinda's dogs are too HOWETA CON-TROLL to be
taken with her on board a airplane. She can't even safely
walk WON of them in the park withHOWET molestin a
innocent defenseless dumb critter.
LIKE THIS:
From: Melinda Shore
Date: Tues, May 9 2006 2:21 pm
Email: s...@panix.com (Melinda Shore)
In article <e3qldc$g4...@naig.caltech.edu>,
Ilja Friedel <i...@clyde.caltech.edu> wrote:
> You can never stress enough what dangers threaten
> the average dog (cougars, bears, snakes to name a few).
Many, many years ago I used to take my (I thought)
well-behaved, well-trained dog out on the trail off-
leash.
One evening as it was getting dark she saw
a deer she wanted to chase and took off.
As in gone.
So there we were, wandering around in the dark for several
hours trying to find a dog that could have run 20 or more
miles in the time it took to finally find her.
That was the end of off-leash hiking for us.
It doesn't even have to be an attack for
bad things to happen to your dog.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - s...@panix.com
Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
-------------
BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
Do they allHOWE kats on board? That'd be the
coupe de gras for the kats AND the airline:
Tues,Apr 19 2005 6:54
Subject: Re: Introducing New Dog to Household Cats
sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com> wrote:
> I was going to ask how cat things were coming
> with Crow and Eclipse.
Not great! I had been just closing off the upstairs bedroom
(a baby gate with the door fixed ajar about six inches keeps
the dogs out better than you'd expect), but the cats like to
hide in the wall of the linen closet (gotta love these old
houses!) when they're nervous and Crow and Eclipse tore
apart the linen closet to try to get to them.
That's when I closed off the upstairs entirely. They're
also a bad influence on Cinder, who started out thinking
of the cats as dinner but who had learned to live with
them in peace until her sisters arrived.
I think it's possible but, frankly, improbable that
they're eventually going to be safe with the cats.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - s...@panix.com
Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
---------------
<<In article <uvhovd6ct4i...@corp.supernews.com>,
BethF<d...@alaska.com> wrote:
> What sort of punishment would you suggest? I hesitate
> to recommend any because I have very little firsthand
> experience with this sort of thing.
Depends on the dogs, etc. When I've been bitten breaking up
a dog fight I've been so angry that clearly the best thing was
for the dog and I to be in different spaces, so effectively he
was punished by isolation (which also kept him away from
the other dogs). I also made a *lot* of noise (yelling, cursing,
etc.) and the dogs don't like that.
I'm usually very, very quiet (yes, really). >>
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.pets.dogs.behavior/msg/
0444b7...
<<The safest way to break up a fight is to throw water on them,
although they sometimes don't notice and it's not practical if
you're indoors.>> [Yeah, must be kinda wet and messy]
> Second, dogs may or may not hurt each other resolving
> dominance issues, and it's not a question of size. Females
> are more likely to resort to violence and I think they're
> more likely to carry a grudge, but it's not guaranteed.
Like your "trainin methods", eh malinda?:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.pets.dogs.behavior/msg/a61c39...
<<This is actually one area where I found the Dunbar stuff
to be extremely helpful, even though he tended to focus on
aggression against strange dogs and Saber was having problems
with the other dogs in the house. Dunbar gives objective
criteria for evaluating how serious the problem is.
Once I realized that the dogs really weren't trying to kill
each other I found the situation to be something I was more
able to deal with calmly, myself.
>> [Now that's a relief!]
> Third, submissive females are called bitches, too. Naaah?
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.pets.dogs.behavior/
msg/bd42f1...
<< One thing that I've found very helpful is to keep notes -
when the fight started, where they were, and what set it
off. A log will be particularly useful if you decide to
seek professional help.>> [For the dog, or for the trainer?]
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.pets.dogs.behavior/msg/5ad625...
<< When my dogs hear one of my cats retching, all 4 of them run
over and stand in a circle around the cat waiting for him to
finish puking. I think it's really cute but I've found that
there's a limited number of people who think so, too.>>
[Yeah, some people just don't have a sense of humor]
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.pets.dogs.breeds/msg/df9c116a...
<<diddy <d...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote:
> there are never any winners in a fight. Only losers
I think the loser here is the person who
asked about dog fighting.
>> [Silly diddy! What does she know about the fun of carrying
>> around buckets of water, waiting for an opportunity to throw
>> them on fighting dogs?]
-------------------
I don't think the new airline company will benefit
by takin on business from this Gang of DOG LOVERS.
In malinda's REALITY-BASED COMMUNITY women
function with women as MEN and THAT makes
everyWON VERY VERY HAPPY:
From: michael <c...@dogtv.com>
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 01:01:53 GMT
Subject: Re: Training with Wits End
Melinda Shore wrote:
> In article <3e60d...@clear.net.nz>,
> Paul B <NOS...@clear.net.nz> wrote:
>> People are invited to read Jerry's manual and draw
>> their own conclusions, just as they are entitled to
>> naively attend a Koehler dog training course and
>> draw their own conclusions.
>
> By stating the choice like this you're implying,
> perhaps deliberately, that the choice is between
> Jerry and Koehler, that if you're not following
> Jerry's mish-mash of stolen material then you're
> necessarily hanging your dog.
>
> This ridiculous construction is why people really
> dislike Jerry rather than simply ignoring him.
> Aside from people taking personal affront, it's a lie.
You tell lies about Jerry every time you open your
fat mouth you stupid ugly despicable defamating c#@t
from heel.
You just said he has no dogs and that he's not a dog
trainer. Both massive defamatory lies, designed to
defame and discredit, you dumbfucking fugly fatass
ugly dumb fucking c&#t from heel. What the fuck planet
do you live on that you think you can get away with
this crap and then turn around and call somebody a
liar ???
You and your pals lie and slander every time you say
Jerry stole his methods and you lie every time you
talk about the "original sources" that you never
provide.
You tell lie upon lie upon lie until you suffocate in
your own bullshit. There's not a dog trainer alive with
a mOORe original and a mOORe unique and un"stolen"
methodogy than Jerry Howe.
It's not our fault that you can't get a date! Take your
lies and bitterness and poison somewhere else. YOu have
nothing to offer here but LIES, SLANDER, INNUENDO,
BITTERNESS, and SELF-HATE.
Jerry is a SAINT compared to you. At least he does
SOMETHING good for people.
You do nothing. You are wretched and despicable and
beneath the most lowly of contempt. You disgust me
utterly. As liars come, you're about the best that
Usenet has to offer. You have no shame and you have
no conscience.
Here's a newsgroup for you:
rec.old.bitter.lonely.jewish.B--USH (as in George)
loving.lesbian. SUVdriving.terrorist.supporters
go there Malinda, Queen of Snakes.
Begone and trouble us noMOORE
--
this is michael
reporting live...
http://dogtv.com
> --
> Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
> Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
Here's MORE of malinda's REALITY:
It's refreshing to see you and mary are as INCOMPETENT
ignorameHOWESES with horses as you are with your dogs.
You MURDERED your horse on accHOWENTA
you're a ignorameHOWES:
Equusite.com
Navicular Problems
"Navicular problems are not a disease, they are man-made."
Melinda Shore wrote:
> In article <Xns97E06728444B7amesnatlzooyahoo...@130.133.1.4>,
> Mary Healey <mhhea...@iastate.edu> wrote:
>"Around here?"?!? Where would that be, the universe?
> Lameness and horses are like peas and carrots, Mutt'n
> Jeff, oxy and moron.
Yeah, but when I moved back here after a few years in the
SF Bay Area I was pretty surprised by the difference in
frequency.
> From foot soreness to stifle injuries to bruises and
> seromas, stringhalt and tendonitis, he tried them
> all. It's very educational, if somewhat frustrating.
I'll bet! Most of the lameness I've had to deal with myself
were pretty obvious - arthritis, navicular disease, etc.
The last horse I had was pretty much the last straw and
drove me out of horses - she was intermittently off with
what looked like neurological problems and we tried pretty
much everything to try to figure out what was going on but
kept coming up empty. Eventually she went into one episode
that was so bad and so persistent that I ended up having her
euthanized.
Navicular Problems
WRITTEN BY: Cheryl Sutor [October 7, 2002]
The most common cause of locomotor lameness in horses is
found in the navicular area of the horse's hoof. The "hows"
and "whys" of navicular problems are often written-off as
"un-known". I have decided to write this article to clear up
the confusion that is commonly spread about this problem,
which has grown to epidemic proportions.
I will define navicular problems, discuss how and why they
exist and give advice on preventing and treating these
problems in your horse.
The terms "Navicular Disease" or "Navicular Syndrome" are
often used to define navicular problems a horse may have.
However, neither of these terms should be used to define
navicular problems. Using the word "disease" has never
been justly defined when referring to navicular problems.
Navicular problems are not a disease, they are man-made.
The word "syndrome" is defined as: a commonly recurring
group of symptoms of unknown cause. The cause of navicular
problems IS known, and therefore, the word "syndrome" also
is not a correct identifier.
So, for the purpose of this article, I will use the term
"navicular problems" throughout.
Navicular problems are completely man-made through
improper trimming, short-term or long-term shoeing,
and/or inadequate natural environment throughout a
horse's life. This improper care can cause problems in
the navicular area of the hoof, not to mention a plethora
of problems within the entire horse.
---------------
Seems malinda's REALITY changes like the weather <{}: ~ ( >
LIKE THIS:
malinda wrote:
"I lost a horse to Lyme disease about 10 years ago, although
we didn't know it at the time. She would have regular bouts
of neurological weirdness that we couldn't diagnose, despite
a really concerted effort to find out what was going on
(Cornell, chiropractors, etc.).
Eventually she had to be put down and during the autopsy Cornell
found Lyme in her synovial fluid. We contacted the person I'd
bought her from and it turned out that creep knew the horse had
developed Lyme in her original home in NJ but didn't bother to
tell me when I bought her.
Live and learn.
It was a really sad experience, though.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -sh...@panix.com
Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
SEE?
HOWEDY malinda you lyin dog abusing animal murderin mental case,
Melinda Shore wrote:
> In article <0bid32hese5r0g4sst35iutqqb2db3j...@4ax.com>,
> sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com> wrote:
> > Not to pick nits, but that stuff about talking to the toy
> > is - - for lack of a better word - - original, isn't it?
Yeah. The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Puppy Wizard came up with the idea while trainin
a MENTAL PATIENT who's dog was havin destructive separation
anXXXIHOWESNESS problems when she left for THERAPY sessions.
NON PHYSCIAL C-HOWENTER CONditioning aka The
Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Puppy
Wizard's Surrogate Toy Separation AnXXXIHOWESNESS /
Bed Time Calming / Fear Of Thunder / Car Sickness / Submissive
Urination / Obsessive Compulsive Masturbation / Chronic Urinary
Tract / Bladder / Irritable BHOWEL / Obsessive Compulsive
Marking / Self Mutilation / Spraying / Defecating Syndrome /
Door Bolting Technique works JUST LIKE FREAKIN MAGICK
for LOTS of CONditions <{); ~ ) >
> > I can't recall reading/hearing it anywhere else.
Of curse you can. You've READ IT in DOZENS of CASE HISTORY
REPORTS from The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students from ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD
WORLD which you call STUPIDLAND whom you call SELFISH
INCONSIDERATE DIMWITS and LIARS.
LIKE THIS:
Here's malinda tellin TWO dog owners who JUST CURED their
elderly dogs of DESTRUCTIVE SEPARATION ANXXXIHOWESNESS that
they're "DIMWITS" from "STUPIDLAND": "jeebus but you're a
selfish, inconsiderate dimwit."
BWEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
From: Your Conscience Your Last Innocent Honest Question Answered
Date: Thurs, Jun 16 2005 12:02 pm
HOWEDY diannes,
diannes wrote:
> Melinda Shore <s...@panix.com> wrote:
> > Robin <robin4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > [nothing of value]
Nuthin of VALUE to lying dog abusing punk
thug coward active acute long term incurable
MENTAL CASES, like yourself, diannes.
Robin REPORTED CURING separation anXXXIHOWESNESS
in her 12 year old dog INSTANTLY, JUST LIKE HOWE all them
other 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual Students ALL OVER the WHOWEL WILD WORLD
who REPORT their 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT
SUCCESS RIGHT HERE on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Forums And
SCHOOL Of HARD KNOCKS And HUMAN BEHAVIOR
RESEARCH LABORATORIES, diannes.
You're settin in it <{); ~ ) >
> > jeebus but you're a selfish, inconsiderate dimwit. Plonk.
You mean, for REPORTING her 100% TOTAL INSTANT SUCCESS
CURING separation anXXXIHOWESNESS in a 12 year old dog,
diannes?
DOGS DIE from separation anXXXIHOWESNESS, diannes.
> What took you so long?
Oh, malinda was PLAYIN glue / rubber with Robin...
LIKE THIS:
From: s...@panix.com (Melinda Shore)
Date: 14 Jun 2005 06:31:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Paging Puppy Wizard
Robin <robin4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Melinda, to attack me says much more about you than it does me.
>
> Did they teach you "I'm rubber and you're glue" in graduate
> school?
> Dianne
Evidently Robin MISSED that class, diannes... LUCKY
THING you an malinda was settin in class like HOWE
you was SUPPOSED to be doin while The Amazing Puppy
Wizard was busy learnin HOWE to teach university
behavior professors HOWE to pupperly handle and train
ALL critters NEARLY INSTANTLY.
Maybe FASTER.
HOWEDY malinda,
Melinda Shore wrote:
> In article <hPM9f.4545$yX2.3...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> Jodi <breme...@earthslink.net> wrote:
> > What do you all give your strong (STRONG) chewers?
> Marrow bones, although occasionally they break or splinter
That could KILL your dogs or break their teeth, malinda.
> at which point they go into the trash immediately.
At which point it's TOO LATE.
Perhaps you should stick to givin your
dogs your bedroom to chew on.
> --
> Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware
> brevis - s...@panix.com
> Prouder than ever to be a member of the
> reality-based community.
Welcome to REALITY you miserable lying dog abusing mental case:
From: lucyaa...@claque.net
Date: 22 Jul 2005 13:13:04 -0700
Subject: Re: For Handsome Jack Morrison:
Collars - belated reply
Melinda Shore wrote:
> In article <fii2e19ad371r3kq9t1nvkbfrmog2v3...@4ax.com>,
> shelly <scouvre...@bluemarble.net> wrote:
> > you're being disingenuous. i have no desire to
> > train my dog not to raid the trash or counter surf.
> > i've no doubt i could train her not to do either,
> > but i simply don't care enough to be bothered. so,
> > what, exactly, is your point?
>
> I do have a desire to have my dogs not raid the trash or
> counter surf, and guess what? They don't. Being dogs,
> however, they had to learn.
But you have no desire to train your dogs not to
ruin your bedroom in your absence, obviously.
http://www.employees.org/~shore/trashedbedroom2.jpg
It's what the trained dogs of our friend Melinda
have done, when left alone at home.
Lucy.
Thurs,Jun 16 2005 4:17 am
Subject: Re: Puppy Wizard - Report, Day Two
HOWEDY malinda,
Melinda Shore wrote:
> In article <robin4joy-49BEBF.23045015062.-....@news.west.cox.net>,
> Robin <robin4...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> [nothing of value]
"Success!" is what Robin wrote, malinda.
Robin wrote that she CURED her 12 year old dog's separation
anXXXIHOWESNESS NEARLY INSTANTLY using her FREE
COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual <{);~ ) >
> jeebus but you're a selfish, inconsiderate dimwit.
That so? Didn't you want to know HOWE she done it, malinda?
> Plonk.
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
> --
> Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
> Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
----------------
Welcome to REALITY you miserable lying dog abusing mental case.
Here's someMOORE "DEEPLY UNCOOL" from malinda's
own POSTED CASE HISTORY:
Subject: semi OT- water dish
From: Melinda Shore
malinda wrote:
> They're heavy when full and they're one of the few
> things that Eclipse hasn't seen fit to relocate within
> the house
Well HOWE COME would she WANT to what with all
the other GOOD STUFF you provide for her to play with?
> (last week I found a lightbulb in her crate,
Like THAT for EXXXAMPLE. NHOWE THAT'S CREATIVITY.
You should encourage your dogs to do more play / learnin /
trainin activities. Dogs are like wet sponges, don't you know!
HOWEver, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Puppy Wizard can't think of ANYTHING MOORE
DANGERHOWES for a doggy to PLAY with, malinda.
Perhaps you should offer her an alternate?
Try TRADING UP for sumpthin of higher value. Perhaps
you can offer to let her make her own choice of say, ANY
TWO items from your bedroom in EXXXCHANGE?
> for pete's sake -
Ahhh, yes, Pete. That's Laura's dog you was tellin abHOWET
HOWE to post through The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Forums <{): ~ ) >
> I have no idea where she got it from).
Perhaps she got it from your bedroom, malinda?:
http://www.employees.org/~shore/trashedbedroom2.jpg
You might wanna ask janet or matty HOWE to manage
and supervise your doggys so they won't steal STUFF
from your garbage?
> I think it would be kind of an effort
> to tip one of those over.
You mean instead of just trainin them not to do it?
--------------
Welcome to REALITY you miserable lying dog abusing mental case:
malinda CONtinues burying herself in LIES and DISINFORMATION:
> Maybe I'm misremembering *(toy talking technique)
> but I don't think so.
Or maybe you're LYIN JUST LIKE HOWE all them other 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students ALL
OVER the WHOWEL WILD WORLD who've REPORTED their
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS RIGHT
HERE on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual Forums And SCHOOL Of HARD
KNOCKS And HUMAN BEHAVIOR RESEARCH LABORATORIES.
LIKE THIS:
From: Hoku Beltz
To: The Puppy Wizard
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Mahalo
Aloha Jerry,
Just wanted to let you know that the surrogate toy
technique is working wonders. I have not had a
shredded sheet for over a week now. It is nice
to be able to leave the bed made and come home
to a made bed.
Your program is awesome, but you already know
that. Keep up the good work!
Hoku
-------------
AND LIKE THIS:
Dave Cohen <coh...@total.net writes:
Re: Barking Deterrants Needed...
Hi.
Please understand that I do not know Jerry and have
spoken with him briefly once by email.
I have no stake or interest in the success of his business.
I simply want to thank him publicly for one of his tips, with
regards to separation anxiety.
I thought it seemed far fetched to praise a stuffed animal
and then say good bye to my own dog, but I am usually a
very open minded person, so I tried it. Well, lo and behold-
the damn trick worked!
I think Jerry has some intriguing techniques, and
personally I think everyone who constantly criticizes
him is not understanding his logic.
Thank you Jerry!
----------------
AND LIKE THIS:
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Professional
Trainer, 33 Years Experience.
-------------
AND LIKE THIS:
Date: 2001-11-14 09:13:21 PST
"Yves Dussault" <ydussa...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3b1110ff...@news1.on.sympatico.ca...
> Hi!
> I have downloaded Wit's End Dog Training Method...
> In there there is that trick with a toy about
> "Separation anxiety surrogate toy technique."
> Anybody has tried that... I would like to give it
> a try with my GSP (German shorthair.....pointer)
> Comments? Yves Dussault
Yves,
I for one have tried it... in fact I use this all the time.
I just used it last evening while my husband and I went out
to see "The Mummy Returns" (a horrible turkey of a movie,
but at least the house wasn't chewed from end to end in the
meantime).
Yes, it really works. :-) So do the other
distraction/praise techniques described therein.
If you are interested in the manual, you will
probably want to begin the exercises as well.
Regards,
Lisa
-------------
AND LIKE THIS:
From: "nicole" <>
To: "Jerald D. Howe"
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 10:46 AM
Subject: Off to a good start!
Hi Jerald,
Just wanted to tell you we read your manual and have
started working with the dogs...
"Chloe" (the one we adopted--a.k.a. "The Destroyer")
has already shown great improvement! (In Just 1 DAY!)
She responds even better than our other
(better-behaved) dog "Poe".
We tried out the surrogate toy technique, and not a thing
was touched when we got back! We were both surpised
because Chloe isn't that interested in toys and was still very
uptight about us reaching for the door...anyway, it seemed
to work. We both work all day today so we'll see how that
goes...
Regardless, we will be cool as cukes when we get home! ;)
I'm just so thankful we might have a chance to get
through to her! We're very excited about her progress
thus far...
Thank You!
Nicole, Michael, Poe and especially Chloe!
-----------------
AND LIKE THIS:
From: "LEE " <>
To: <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 6:11 AM
Subject: Wits end training in England
HOWEDY Lee,
> Hi,
> I have stumbled across your training method on the internet
EXCELLENT!
Nuthin happens by accident or coincidence.
> and I am pleased to say, one part of it has worked
> already after only 3 days of training.
Wonderful! Please follow the method entirely and
PRECISELY. It NEVER FAILS, but it's very unforgiving
of mistakes and doesn't play well with other methods.
> I own two boxers, one of which is a rescue dog who
> sufferred from 'seperation anxiety'
SA usually takes no more than WON day or two, to break.
> and would constantly chew his bedding in his crate
> when in the house alone. After only 2 sessions of
> praising his favourite nylon bone and leaving it in
> front of the crate before leaving, the behaviour is gone!
> Lee.
HOWETSTANDING!
-------------
AND LIKE THIS:
Chris Williams writes:
"The FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual
I do find valuable. Much of it I recognize as what
I've always done without thinking of it as "training".
New stuff, I've used. His anchoring technique erased
the last of Mac's fireworks trauma,"
-----------
AND LIKE THIS:
From: "LESPERANCE/DEAKIN" <madea...@total.net>
Date: 1999/10/06
Subject: Re: Separation Anxiety
Well Jerry, I have to hand it to you. It worked!
Our dog was very well behaved until I had to go on the
road for my work this summer. I was gone twice for 10
long days each time. Although there were still people
home, I am the "primary care-giver" to my dog, so he
became destructive (shoes, books, rugs, papers etc)
We have a crate, but I believe it is too small for him
now - he is a cross golden/gsd and when he sits or stands
he cannot hold his head up as the top is too low, so I
didn't want to crate him while I went to work for sometimes
8 hours.
Anyway, I decided to try your method with the toy.
I would find a toy, tell it to be good and place it in
his crate. After just 3 days, there was no more destruction
in the house - even when daughter or hubby forgot to put
their shoes away! Now the toy stays in the crate all day,
and he even crawls in to be with the "good toy" when I leave.
He seems quite proud when we come home.
I have not tried the can thing - don't quite understand
that, so I think my dog may be confused too!
Marcie (Winslow's mom)
------------------
AND LIKE THIS:
"Anthony Testa" <testa52> wrote in message
We came home to almost $1,000 in damage.
Furniture, the blinds were all chewed and torn
down, etc. The next day we put her in the crate
again. This time we came home to a nice 2' x 3'
hole in our carpet in the middle of the living room,
right down to the cement.
I told my wife that we cannot afford to keep this dog.
We should go out and get a puppy.
<SNIP>
First, at no cost he sent us his manual. We started
doing exactly what he said to do in the manual.
Exactly as we did was was written, the results were
exactly as he said it would be. Then we purchased
the DDR.
This is an amazing god send to us.
First of all, Jerry sent it to us without paying. (thanks
for that gesture) This has such and AMAZING effect.
This testimonial is kind of winded so I will say this......
Jerry's product literally saved this dogs life.
Angel can be left alone during the day. NO CRATE. The
dog shows absolutely no sign of anxiety at all. Jerry
told us the product works immediately and it did! She
does not bark at all during the day except when the
mailman drops mail into the slot on the door.
The manual for training works exactly as it says!
<SNIP>
Jerry, after reading some of the threads in the news
group, I can't for the life of me understand why this
many people are so dang blind or ignorant.
You just keep plugging away at what you do, because
you my friend are a life saver!!!
Anytime you need someone to speak about the results
of your product, you have my number. We would galdly
talk to them.
Thank you very much for all your help.
God bless you...
Anthony & Linda Testa
Jacksonville, Florida
----------
AND LIKE THIS:
"nesskay" <ness...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1156529540.1...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
It has been a couple of months since we have initiated Jerry Howe's
recommendations for resolving the separation anxiety in our 8 y.o.
chocolate lab.
We have seen remarkable results.
She can now be left on our houseboat and we can return with
all of the wood trim and/or blinds intact. Before we spoke with
Jerry and started the training, we could not leave her without
her barking in a high pitch incessantly.
I had resorted to "building her a pen" with pieces of chair
railing, putting chairs in front of windows, and moving the
bed so that she could not get to the blind (again!). It would
take about 10-15 minutes of planning and moving things before
we could leave.
Even with that, she would find something to destroy. We NOW
use the surrogate toy method and can go out, shop, go to dinner
or whatever, without any problems.
She is glad to see us when we return, but no longer frantic.
I am so happy that this seems to be the norm now.
Another problem that we had with her was although she would
not destroy the house, she would leave us runny poop in several
places.(kind of the same as destroy I guess). I tried to blame this
on her diet, but realized that her anxiety level was so high that
she just had no control. Now, the only time that she has done
that is when she devoured a diaper from the trash!!!
Jerry's methods work. I found him by typing in separation
anxiety+orlando florida into Google, otherwise I don't want
to speculate what could have happened with Amelia.
We were at our Wit's End!!!!!! Thanks so much Jerry.
We have given your URL to everyone we know with a dog.
Your methods work. The others that we tried did not.
It is that simple!
Thank you, Thank you Thank you!
Nancy and Amelia
----------------------
AND LIKE THIS:
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME The
Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33 Years
Experience.
Subject: To Jerry
1 From: MarilynRammell
Date: Tues, Aug 3 1999 3:00 am
Email: "MarilynRammell" <marilynramm...@hotmail.com>
Hello Jerry,
A client of mine asked to say a 'big thank you' to you.
They have a 8 month spaniel that they were about to get
rid of.
In fact they had put her into kennels for a few day while
they 'thought it through'. They rang me the day before
they were due to collect her.
She had wrecked their home - everytime they left her she
destroyed something else. The walls, the cabinets, the
carpets, table legs, chair legs, - anything and everything.
They collected her and brought her to me. I gave them some
routine training exercises, and also I wrote out your advice
(I will say at this point that I was not sure about it at all,
and felt a little embarrassed - it was the advice about the
'toy dog that gets the praise for not making a mess'.
Anyway, this was 11 days ago and I heard nothing. Yesterday
they turned up at the new Monday evening class. They were
absolutely delighted.
They told me that after just one attempt, (your toy suggestion)
she 'stopped all the destruction'. They were in tear of happiness
while telling me.
Thank you Jerry.
Respectfully,
Marilyn
----------------
AND LIKE THIS:
From: Marilyn Rammell (marilynramm...@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: Separation anxiety (?) help needed!
Date: 1999/10/13
Hi Steve,
Just want to second Jerry's method for dealing with this -
I've suggested it to quite a few clients now and it's worked
'every' time.
It sounds a little 'amusing' I agree, but it really works.
Two of the occasions it's worked have been when the
owners were almost at the point of giving up (one had
actually put their dog into kennels for a few days so
that they could re-decorate the demolition done by the dog).
They rang me while the dog was still in kennels and were
not yet decided whether to collect the dog or not.
The very first time they tried Jerry's method, it worked.
Best of luck,
Marilyn Rammell
--------------------
AND LIKE THIS:
From: AIMEE (countrygirl0...@yahoo.com)
Subject: House training and such...
Date: 2003-10-08 16:18:56 PST
I've been having a problem with my dog, Axel,
relieving himself in the house while I'm away
from home.
I've used TPW method's, and yesterday I was out
for 12 hours, and Axel didn't have one single "accident".
Today, I had hoped that the results would
be just as good - and they were (I was out
for 11 hours).
The problem began when, as a puppy, Axel would
relieve himself in the house and I would point
at the mess and tell him "NO" or "Bad Dog".
That made him afraid to relieve himself
in the house or infront of me.
After I got TPW's training manual, I
corrected my mishandling of these instances.
When I came home to an "accident", I would
simply drop a can near the area and ask Axel
"What's that?" Then I would clean it up -
with out showing him I was the least bit
upset about the mess, and when he looked
at the spot I would tell him "Good boy,
you're a good dog".
This has been an ongoing problem, and thanks
to the Puppy Wizard, we've finally got it
taken care of...
Also, Axel LOVES the cat's litter box... He
enjoys the "snacks" he can find in there...I
followed TPW's methods by alternating sounds
and praising him while or before he sticks
his nose in it, and today, he's been going
into the room with the cat box and barking.
That's because he's thinking about getting
into the box, but he knows he shouldn't.
Thank you, Jerry, for all you help.
You've been a blessing to all of us.
AIMEE
-----------------------
From: AIMEE (countrygirl0...@yahoo.com):
I own a black an tan coonhound. We got him
as a puppy, and due to constant mishandling
(pulling on his lead, negative corrections, and
the occasional use of a bark collar) I ended
up with a very anxious dog.
I couldn't leave him home alone, I couldn't
crate him, I couldn't even take my dog for
walks because he feared EVERYTHING.
I was going to have to get rid of him if things
didn't turn around.
My husband and I searched the internet for
answers - AND WE FOUND THE PUPPY WIZARD.
For all of you disbeliveers out there HIS METHODS WORK!
I've followed his manual, and we now have a
dog that can be left home alone, that heels
on command, that can go outside and NOT
be afraid of everything he sees.
Not only have his methods helped our dog, but
our marriage has gotten better. We had fallen
into a rut - constant bickering and tension, we
never laughed or had FUN together - but now,
with the same mindset used in THE PUPPY
WIZARDS dog training, our communications
channels have opened, and we now work
together instead of against one another.
For all the "Literalists" out there, NO
WE DID NOT TEACH EACH OTHER TO SIT, STAY,
OR HEEL.
We simply eliminated the nagging and the acting out}
to get NEGATIVE attention from one another since we
weren't getting the POSITIVE attention we wanted.
So, it's been proven -
THE PUPPY WIZARDS METHODS WORK.
It's up to you to accept them. Yes, there's
alot of blame that we have to accept, but once
we realize that we've caused these problems to
arise, we can strive to make things better.
AIMEE
*****************************
I THINK YOU GET THE POINT.
DON'T YOU.
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA!!!
HOWEDY matty,
Rocky wrote:
> Robin said in rec.pets.dogs.health:
> > Jerry, you give the lying dog abusing punk
> > thug coward mental cases too much credit
> > for the ability to influence
Naaah, The Amazing Puppy Wizard was just
BAITING these lying dog abusing punk thug
coward mental cases again <{); ~ ) >
> You really are a piece of work.
INDEEDY, matty. Robin studied and followed
the INSTRUCTIONS in her FREE COPY of The
Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual and REPORTED
her 100% NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS RIGHT HERE
on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual Forums And
SCHOOL Of HARD KNOCKS And HUMAN BEHAVIOR
RESEARCH LABORATORIES, matty <{); ~ ) >
You're settin in it <{); ~ ) >
> Keep this out of the health groups, 'kay?
Dogs DIE from separation anXXXIHOWESNESS,
matty, JUST LIKE HOWE your own DEATHLY ILL
dog Rocky is DYIN from STRESS INDUCED AUTO-
IMMUNE DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME,
on accHOWENT of you're a lyin dog abusin punk
thug coward MENTAL CASE, matty, and you can't
post here abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE <{); ~ ) >
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
--------------
BWEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
--Marshall Dermer
"The day may come when the rest of
the animal creation
may acquire those right
which never could have been withholden from them
but by the hand of tyranny.
The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?" -
- Jeremy Bentham
"A Cheerful Heart Is Good Medicine, But
A Crushed Spirit Dries Up The Bones,"
Proverbs 17:22
Disciple Paulie Sez:
"No One Understands How Wits End Training
Really Works; They Assume It's All Nicey Nicey
And don't Realise It's A Very Disciplined Method
That Deals With Any Situation And The Foundation
Is Built On Trust And Understanding.
I've never forced my dogs to do anything,
I tell them they are good dogs and they
seem to follow me, onceI told them they
were bad dogs and they ran away from me,
now I only ever tell them they are good dogs
and they always are, always.
Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and say
"good dog" sincerely at the end of the request and
I bet you'll find your dog thinking then responding
everytime.
A Bit Of Respect Works Wonders,
The Same Rule Applies
To Every Aspect Of
The Relationship With Your Dog.
Obedience And Affection Are Not Related,
if They Were Everyone Would Have
Obedient Dogs.
I Have Found Giving Dogs "Payment" In Advance i.e.
"Sam sit goodboy" Makes The Dogs WANT TO RESPOND,
After All, All Dogs Want To Be "Good Dogs" And If
You Tell Them They Are Good Then They Feel An
Obligation To Obey Your Request.
Telling Sam He's A Good Dog AFTER He Sit's
Apart From Being Too Late Is Also A Gamble
Because If He Doesn't Sit Then There's No
Positive Interaction.
Paul
-------------------------
ANY QUESTIONS, People?
"Ye shall know the truth,
and the truth shall make you mad." -
~Aldous Huxley.
All Truth Passes Through Three Stages.
First, It Is Ridiculed.
Second, It Is Violently Opposed.
Third, It Is Accepted As Being Self-Evident
-Arthur Schopenhauer-
"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.
"If you've got them by the balls their
hearts and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.
"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
"Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain!"
-Friedrich Schiller.
INDEEDY.
AND THAT'S HOWE COME THEY GOT ME NHOWE!
In Love And Light,
I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours
The WORLD'S CRUELEST Trainer,
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
*M-A-J-E-S-T-I-C*
*G-R-A-N-D*
*M-A-S-T-E-R*
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Ferret, Goat,
Monkey SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard <{) ;~ ) >
HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >
Sincerely,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092 (Call ANY TIME)
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard
E-mail:
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
@HotMail.Com
Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
@HotMail.Com
TheSimplyAmazingPuppyWizard @HotMail.Com
MSN, AT&T Or AIM Messenger @:
TheSimplyAmazingPuppyWizard @HotMail.Com
ThePuppyWizard @BellSouth.Net
Ted Mittelstaedt
> In article <bags16-...@news.ipinc.net>,
> Ted Mittelstaedt <te...@toybox.placo.com> wrote:
> >As for the rest of it - hey, have at it. Obviously you are positive
> >that the Internet works a particular way, you aren't interested in
> >finding out from people who actually run it how exactly it DOES
> >work,
>
> Hey, *Ted!*, I've written networking code you're almost
> certainl running,
Heh - I've never seen your name on any of -my- IOS loads.
And no, we don't run Lawful Intercept. The 12.3/12.4
code is terribly bloated. I keep trying it every once in a
while, but so far 12.2 still works better on our stuff. We only
run the 12.4 on 1800/2800 stuff at customer sites.
> I've chaired several working groups in the
> IETF as well as the VoIP security group in the European
> Telecommunications Standards Institute (where I also was a
> member of the IP Camarilla in the TC SEC Lawful Intercept
> Committee). Technology I developed has been standardized by
> the ITU-T and PacketCable to support wiretap on cable
> networks (thank you, thank you very much, I'm always pleased
> to be of assistance to the community),
Ah yes. Cisco loves those cable companies. My employer doesen't
sell cable they sell DSL. Nor are they a phone company nor do they sell
dialtone.
I'm sure it would make life easier for
a lot of people if the Internet collapsed into 4 or 5 "retail" ISPs
run by the RBOCS and the cable companies. No wonder you don't
like my posts.
> and I work for a
> company that basically prostitutes itself to its customers -
> we pretty much don't build anything unless we've got
> customers lined up in advance.
Why did Cisco buy Linksys, then?
> I think we're in pretty good
> shape on this one.
>
Except that Cisco lost the core router market to Juniper
years ago. The company is losing it's focus on what
the Internet really is. At one time they understood the
Internet was a community. Now they just want to bleed
money out of it.
> And, need I point out, I'm not the one who's working with
> architectural models that range somewhere between faulty and
> flat wrong, and that I'm not the one posting lengthy rants
> based on incorrect assumptions. That is to say, I think I
> have a lot better control over my argument than you've got
> over yours,
And, what is your argument, exactly? It seems to be that
somehow your employer is going to figure out how to
bribe/lobby the US government to require all ISPs who
aren't running voice (and thus subject to wiretapping requirements)
to pay lots of money to your employer for black boxes
that will make the MPAA real happy. And this is a Good Thing!
Ted
Melinda Shore
Ted Mittelstaedt <te...@toybox.placo.com> wrote:
>Heh - I've never seen your name on any of -my- IOS loads.
I've never written IOS code. I'm referring to BSD code that
was picked up for inclusion in other Unix distributions and
eventually in Windows.
>Ah yes. Cisco loves those cable companies.
We love our customers.
>My employer doesen't
>sell cable they sell DSL. Nor are they a phone company nor do they sell
>dialtone.
What does that have to do with anything?