Account Options

  1. Sign in
The old Google Groups will be going away soon, but your browser is incompatible with the new version.
Google Groups Home
« Groups Home
Howling Wolf and Bob Dylan
There are currently too many topics in this group that display first. To make this topic appear first, remove this option from another topic.
There was an error processing your request. Please try again.
flag
  14 messages - Collapse all  -  Translate all to Translated (View all originals)
The group you are posting to is a Usenet group. Messages posted to this group will make your email address visible to anyone on the Internet.
Your reply message has not been sent.
Your post was successful
 
From:
To:
Cc:
Followup To:
Add Cc | Add Followup-to | Edit Subject
Subject:
Validation:
For verification purposes please type the characters you see in the picture below or the numbers you hear by clicking the accessibility icon. Listen and type the numbers you hear
 
really real  
View profile  
 More options Nov 17 2012, 5:20 pm
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
From: really real <reallyr...@shaw.ca>
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 14:20:38 -0800
Local: Sat, Nov 17 2012 5:20 pm
Subject: Howling Wolf and Bob Dylan
Gemjack had an interesting analysis of the similarity of lifestyle and
vocal properties of Howling Wolf and Bob Dylan, but I lost the thread so
I'll respond here.

It all started with me chiding someone in the Beatles group for not
liking Dylan's voice, so I asked him if he liked Howling Wolf. Gemjack
wondered if both these singers had ruined their voices through a life of
hard smoking and drinking.

I think Howling Wolf always had a rough voice, where Bob, of course,
used to sing like an angel. Tom Waits always had a rough voice, though
it did get rougher through his hard times. Rod Stewart had an
interestingly rough voice, at least a sand-papery voice, but it got
smoothed out when he went to Vegas.

Bob's voice has definitely changed, though of course, it always used to
change. But I don't think it will ever get sweet again, despite Tempest
having some much sweeter sounding singing than the last albums.

It would be like a bald man growing hair again. Only Paul Simon could do
that.


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
gemjack  
View profile  
 More options Nov 19 2012, 7:41 am
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
From: gemjack <geminijackso...@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 07:41:29 -0500
Local: Mon, Nov 19 2012 7:41 am
Subject: Re: Howling Wolf and Bob Dylan
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 14:20:38 -0800, really real <reallyr...@shaw.ca>
wrote:

>Gemjack had an interesting analysis of the similarity of lifestyle and
>vocal properties of Howling Wolf and Bob Dylan, but I lost the thread so
>I'll respond here.

>It all started with me chiding someone in the Beatles group for not
>liking Dylan's voice, so I asked him if he liked Howling Wolf. Gemjack
>wondered if both these singers had ruined their voices through a life of
>hard smoking and drinking.

Was listening to 'How Many More Years' just the other day and it
really has that late-term Bobortion delivery.
-gj

 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Google at EDLIS  
View profile  
 More options Nov 20 2012, 8:03 am
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
From: Google at EDLIS <eduardomonteverdirica...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 05:03:52 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues, Nov 20 2012 8:03 am
Subject: Re: Howling Wolf and Bob Dylan
http://www.howlinwolf.com/articles/dylan/dylan.htm


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Google at EDLIS  
View profile  
 More options Nov 20 2012, 8:06 am
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
From: Google at EDLIS <eduardomonteverdirica...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 05:06:20 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues, Nov 20 2012 8:06 am
Subject: Re: Howling Wolf and Bob Dylan
http://dylanchords.info/00_misc/smokestack_lightning.htm


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Google at EDLIS  
View profile  
 More options Nov 20 2012, 8:15 am
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
From: Google at EDLIS <eduardomonteverdirica...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 05:15:56 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues, Nov 20 2012 8:15 am
Subject: Re: Howling Wolf and Bob Dylan
Cynthia Gooding

You’re a very good friend of John Lee Hooker's, aren’t you?
Yeah, I’m a friend of his.
Do you sing any of his songs at all?
Well, no I don’t sing any of his really. I sing one of Howlin’ Wolf’s. You wanna hear that
one again?
Well, first I wanna ask you, um, why you don’t sing any of his because I know you like
them.
I play harmonica with him, and I sing with him. But I don’t do, sing, any of his songs
because, I might sing a version of one of them, but I don’t sing any like he does, ‘cause I
don’t think anybody sings any of his songs to tell you the truth. He’s a funny guy to sing
like.
Hard guy to sing like too.
This is, I’ll see if I can find a key here and do this one. I heard this one a long time ago.
This is one, I never do it.
This is the Howlin’ Wolf song
Yeah.

You like that?
Yeah, I sure do. You’re very brave to try and sing that kind of a howling song.
Yeah, it’s Howlin’ Wolf.


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Google at EDLIS  
View profile  
 More options Nov 20 2012, 8:22 am
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
From: Google at EDLIS <eduardomonteverdirica...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 05:22:46 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues, Nov 20 2012 8:22 am
Subject: Re: Howling Wolf and Bob Dylan
Howlin’ Wolf [1910 - 1976] Chester Arthur Burnett
was born on June 10, 1910 in West Point, Mississippi:
a small town 30 miles south of Tupelo,
and from there another 75 miles to Memphis. He
moved west with his parents to the heart of the
Delta when he was 13, and farmed on a plantation
at Ruleville, close to CHARLEY PATTON’s home-base
near Cleveland, Mississippi, on Highway 61, driving
a plough pulled by mules. Except for a spell in
the army, he continued to farm, while performing
at fish fries and juke joints through the 1930s and
early 40s, turning professional only in the late
1940s.
In the blues-structured ‘Man of Peace’ (1983),
when Bob Dylan comes in the seventh stanza to
invoke images of imminent annihilation, he draws
on the blues to do so for him. The opening line,
‘Well, the howling wolf will howl tonight, the
king snake will crawl’, fuses two creatures long
since appropriated into blues poetry: the howling
wolf—which refers both to the mythic creature
from the backwoods feared by rural blacks when
darkness fell, and the fierce blues singer who took
its name for his own, the great Howlin’ Wolf himself—
and the king snake that will crawl, which
Dylan twists around but slightly out of BIG JOE
WILLIAMS’ threatening ‘Crawlin’ King Snake’,
made in 1941. Or perhaps the snake too comes to
Dylan via Howlin’Wolf, whose ‘New Crawlin’ King
Snake’ came out in 1966.
That Dylan’s images here might have come directly
from the old rural blues songs—balancing
the Big Joe Williams ‘Crawlin’ King Snake’ there
are two J.T. Funny Papa Smith cuts of ‘Howlin’
Wolf Blues’ from 1930, one of which was a hit—but
might equally have come to Dylan via their more
modern incarnations by Howlin’ Wolf himself,
tells us something about the special value of the
latter, and about the myth that there is a sharp
divide between the acoustic rural blues and the
electric city ‘Chicago’ blues.
Though he was one of the four or five real giants
of the tough, electric Chicago blues, and certainly
the roughest and vocally most ferocious, he grew
up in the pre-war country blues world, and was a
prime conduit through which much of this older
blues music passed across into the new. While he
was taught harmonica by SONNY BOY WILLIAMSON
II,Wolf learnt the guitar and much repertoire
from one of the most influential figures in the
history of the blues, CHARLEY PATTON, and even
played some dates with ROBERT JOHNSON in 1930.
His importance as a custodian, as much as a moderniser,
of this pre-war material is in part explained
by the fact that he didn’t record at all
until he was 41 years old. His early sides were
made at Sun Records in Memphis, blues capital of
the South in which he had lived his whole life.
HOWLIN’ WOLF
Most rural blacks who migrated north did so either
in their teens or early 20s. It was exceptional
that a man who had lived so long in the South
should then move to Chicago, blues capital of the
North, but Howlin’ Wolf did so within two years
of Sun Records’ Sam Phillips leasing some of his
first sides to Chess Records in Chicago. (MUDDY
WATERS, his great rival, and five years his junior,
was recorded as early as 1941, and moved to Chicago
in the 40s.) Accepting a cash advance from
Chess Records, he drove to Chicago: ‘the onliest
one drove out of the South like a gentleman,’ he
is quoted as saying.
A southern gentleman he remained. Wolf ’s
1952 ‘Saddle My Pony’ is based in detail on Patton’s
1929 ‘Pony Blues’, and Wolf ’s ‘Spoonful’ on
Patton’s ‘A Spoonful Blues’; 1952’s ‘Color and
Kind’, its remake ‘Just My Kind’ and 1968’s ‘Ain’t
Goin’ Down That Dirt Road’ all build on Patton’s
1929 ‘Down the Dirt Road Blues’. Even Howlin’
Wolf ’s biggest hit, 1956’s ‘Smokestack Lightnin’’,
a remake of his own earlier ‘Crying at Daybreak’,
was in turn a restatement of Patton’s 1930 ‘Moon
Going Down’. A later 1956 session yielded ‘I Asked
for Water’, based on Tommy Johnson’s 1928 ‘Cool
Drink of Water Blues’, and ‘Natchez Burning’, a
remake of a song recorded earlier by Gene Gilmore
and Baby Doo Caston about a dance-hall fire of 1940.
Wolf ’s 1952 ‘Bluebird (Blues)’, which he rerecorded
in 1957 and re-fashioned two years later
as ‘Mr. Airplane Man’, is a 1938 Sonny Boy Williamson
I song (quite possibly via nearby Yazoo City
singer Tommy McClennan: a singer whose vocal
fierceness prefigured Wolf ’s and whose personal
fierceness greatly exceeded it); 1952’s ‘Decoration
Day (Blues)’ is also from Sonny Boy Williamson I
(though written by CURTIS JONES). In 1957 Wolf
cut a splendid version of the 1930 MISSISSIPPI
SHEIKS standard ‘Sittin’ on Top of the World’,
which Bob Dylan was to record first with Big Joe
Williams; in 1966, the same year Wolf turned Big
Joe’s ‘Crawlin’ King Snake’ into his own ‘New
Crawlin’ King Snake’, he also recorded ‘Poor Wind
(That Never Change)’, which, to the tune of W.C.
Handy’s classic ‘Careless Love’, incorporated elements
of BLIND LEMON JEFFERSON’s 1926 ‘See
That My Grave Is Kept Clean’, Papa Harvey Hull &
Long Cleve Reed’s 1927 ‘Hey! Lawdy Mama—The
France Blues’ and/or Fred McMullen’s 1933 ‘Wait
and Listen’, and of the standard ‘St. James Infirmary
Blues’. The following year, Wolf cut ‘Dust My
Broom’, which comes, via Elmore James or not,
from Robert Johnson, who in turn had taken his
title phrase from the lyric of Kokomo Arnold’s ‘I’ll
Be Up Someday’.
You get some sense of how ‘country’ Wolf looked
in person too, through the eyes of these northern
city record executives, when you read Marshall
Chess recalling his sheer physical size: ‘Whenever
we shook hands, mine was a little nothing inside
his huge hand. He could never buy shoes that were
wide enough and he would cut the sides of his
new shoes with a razor. You could see his socks
sticking out.’
From 1959 or 1960 onwards, Chess was pressuring
Wolf into recording not his own material but
songs by the prolific Willie Dixon—but many of
these, like the material Dixon had recorded as a
member of the Big Three Trio in the 1940s, were
also strongly based on country blues songs from
the 1920s and 30s. While the label credits Dixon
with having composed Wolf ’s 1961 hit ‘The Red
Rooster’, Wolf himself said that the credit belonged
to Patton.
When Howlin’ Wolf ’s career and influence was
at it peak, therefore, which was from the mid-
1950s till the mid-1960s, he was as synonymous
with Chicago as Muddy Waters—and yet he never
really sounded like the city. The world he invoked,
in his uniquely spooky, surreal way, was in essence
that of the back roads, the Mississippi swamplands
made mythic and primeval, not far from Robert
Johnson’s crossroads, in the nighttime of country
soul. What he was bringing forward thunderously
into the 1950s and 60s, and making accessible to
the likes of ELVIS PRESLEY on through to THE
ROLLING STONES, and thus to the pop-buying public,
was a rich meld of country blues lyric poetry.
Wolf ’s 1954 side ‘Evil’ was transmuted into Elvis’
‘Trouble’ just four years later. In 1964, ‘Smokestack
Lightnin’’, reissued in Britain, reached the
charts, and Wolf appeared on the TV series ‘Ready
Steady Go!’ while he was over in Europe as part of
the American Folk Blues Festival. In 1965, as special
guest of the Rolling Stones, who performed
‘Little Red Rooster’, Wolf performed his early-
1950s Sun record ‘How Many More Years?’ on the
US ‘Shindig’ TV show.
By this time, Bob Dylan had already long been
familiar with his work: which is why at times it is
both impossible to tell, and perhaps unimportant
to know, whether Dylan takes a line, or an image,
or a flavour, from Howlin’ Wolf himself or from
somewhere in the earlier country blues, as Wolf
had done in turn. In early 1962, on the unedited
tape made for a New York radio, Dylan tells CYNTHIA
GOODING that he knows the work of both
Muddy Waters and Howlin’ Wolf: and goes on to
perform a country blues version of ‘Smokestack
Lightnin’’ that sounds closer in style to Charley
Patton than Wolf’s does. This says much for Dylan’s
recognition that Wolf was essentially a country
wolf in city clothing.
If Dylan had gained nothing from Howlin’ Wolf
except an early piece of repertoire, that would be
interesting. However, it seems as clear as such
things ever can be that there is some direct inspiration.
First, it’s unlikely that Dylan’s absorption
of the Charley Patton legacy was never through
Wolf, his last great pupil. Second, there must have
been a time in Dylan’s youth when, as for so many,
the comprehensible beat, electricity and audible
recording quality ofWolf and MuddyWaters made
for a far easier way into much of the blues than
the ‘old-fashioned’, gruesomely lo-fi recordings of
their pre-war country blues predecessors.
So, musically as well as lyrically,Wolf was a conduit.
His early band included Ike Turner and JUNIOR
PARKER—whose elegant, cool ‘Mystery Train’
was to be transformed in the same Sun studio, via
Elvis, into a founding classic for rock’n’roll—while
the main guitarist Wolf used from 1954 onwards
was the consummate Hubert Sumlin, whose best
work is amongst the finest electric guitar playing
in the universe. He plays solos of divine, deranged
descending notes, tense as steel cable, grungy as
hot-rod cars crashing, and as piercing as God
cracking open the sky. Howlin’ Wolf brought Sumlin
up to Chicago from the south. He hailed from
the Delta too: from Greenwood, Mississippi (where
Robert Johnson was murdered in 1937 and where
Bob Dylan commemorated the murder of MEDGAR
EVERS by singing ‘Only a ...

read more »


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Google at EDLIS  
View profile  
 More options Nov 20 2012, 8:28 am
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
From: Google at EDLIS <eduardomonteverdirica...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 05:28:49 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues, Nov 20 2012 8:28 am
Subject: Re: Howling Wolf and Bob Dylan
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rec.music.dylan/VuXCxRTdpZQ/discussion


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
gemjack  
View profile  
 More options Nov 20 2012, 10:06 am
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
From: gemjack <geminijackso...@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 10:06:16 -0500
Local: Tues, Nov 20 2012 10:06 am
Subject: Re: Howling Wolf and Bob Dylan
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 05:28:49 -0800 (PST), Google at EDLIS

<eduardomonteverdirica...@gmail.com> wrote:
>https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rec.music.dylan/VuXCxRTdpZQ/discussion

>On Saturday, 17 November 2012 22:20:23 UTC, really real  wrote:
>> Gemjack had an interesting analysis of the similarity of lifestyle and
>> vocal properties of Howling Wolf and Bob Dylan, but I lost the thread so

lol, I have no memory of that.  But this should mean that I have the
tracks... somewhere.
-gj

 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Just Walkin'  
View profile  
 More options Nov 20 2012, 3:39 pm
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
From: "Just Walkin'" <kensh...@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 12:39:17 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues, Nov 20 2012 3:39 pm
Subject: Re: Howling Wolf and Bob Dylan
On Nov 20, 9:06 am, gemjack <geminijackso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 05:28:49 -0800 (PST), Google at EDLIS

> <eduardomonteverdirica...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rec.music.dylan/VuXCxRTdpZQ/discussion

> >On Saturday, 17 November 2012 22:20:23 UTC, really real  wrote:
> >> Gemjack had an interesting analysis of the similarity of lifestyle and
> >> vocal properties of Howling Wolf and Bob Dylan, but I lost the thread so

> lol, I have no memory of that.  But this should mean that I have the
> tracks... somewhere.
> -gj

Did howl like a wolf the other night at 11 when I fell and broke my
collarbone out on Nicollet.

He blames himself, but it's a small price to pay to have dinner with
my brother.

Don't believe me? Come, sit down, we'll have another...


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
chris  
View profile  
 More options Nov 20 2012, 3:47 pm
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
From: chris <cpyle4...@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 12:47:11 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues, Nov 20 2012 3:47 pm
Subject: Re: Howling Wolf and Bob Dylan

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 3:39:17 PM UTC-5, Just Walkin' wrote:
> Did howl like a wolf the other night at 11 when I fell and broke my collarbone out on Nicollet.

  He blames himself, but it's a small price to pay to have dinner with my brother.

> Don't believe me? Come, sit down, we'll have another...

awh, so sorry to hear about the collarbone........won't be carrying any turkey platters anytime soon!  my moms never healed right, but my son's healed up just fine....i think age is a factor there.
as for taking WHATEVER the gods send your way just so you can visit with a brother is a concept i well know.  my brother's gone now, but woowee, things just seem to happen around that guy, and always to someone else...lol.

um, and to the original post, yes, lifestyles can affect voice quality.  but i think both bob and the wolf like/liked their scratchy ole voices.


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
gemjack  
View profile  
 More options Nov 21 2012, 7:38 am
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
From: gemjack <geminijackso...@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 07:38:33 -0500
Local: Wed, Nov 21 2012 7:38 am
Subject: Re: Howling Wolf and Bob Dylan
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 12:39:17 -0800 (PST), "Just Walkin'"

Damn!  Sorry to hear that!

>He blames himself, but it's a small price to pay to have dinner with
>my brother.

Well then let's hope you only dine together on rare occasions.
-gj

 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Just Walkin'  
View profile  
 More options Nov 21 2012, 11:35 am
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
From: "Just Walkin'" <kensh...@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 08:35:31 -0800 (PST)
Local: Wed, Nov 21 2012 11:35 am
Subject: Re: Howling Wolf and Bob Dylan
On Nov 21, 6:38 am, gemjack <geminijackso...@yahoo.com> wrote:

First time up in 8 years; I guess (barely) escaping Sandy's surge on
the sound in CT made him feel his mortality. (Or maybe it was my 60th
year coming to pass that did that.)

In any case, I told baby brother I've got another shoulder if he's
thinking of coming back anytime soon...


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
really real  
View profile  
 More options Nov 30 2012, 10:54 am
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
From: really real <reallyr...@shaw.ca>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 07:54:04 -0800
Local: Fri, Nov 30 2012 10:54 am
Subject: Re: Howling Wolf and Bob Dylan

> Did howl like a wolf the other night at 11 when I fell and broke my
> collarbone out on Nicollet.

> He blames himself, but it's a small price to pay to have dinner with
> my brother.

> Don't believe me? Come, sit down, we'll have another...

Admittedly, it's been half a decade since I was a young 60 years old,
and my memory is shot, but why am I getting a deja vu about you slipping
on ice and breaking something in your body? Didn't this happen last
year? Or is this new icing on the cake of human frailty?

 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Just Walkin'  
View profile  
 More options Nov 30 2012, 7:33 pm
Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan
From: "Just Walkin'" <kensh...@comcast.net>
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 16:33:12 -0800 (PST)
Local: Fri, Nov 30 2012 7:33 pm
Subject: Re: Howling Wolf and Bob Dylan
On Nov 30, 9:54 am, really real <reallyr...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> > Did howl like a wolf the other night at 11 when I fell and broke my
> > collarbone out on Nicollet.

> > He blames himself, but it's a small price to pay to have dinner with
> > my brother.

> > Don't believe me? Come, sit down, we'll have another...

> Admittedly, it's been half a decade since I was a young 60 years old,
> and my memory is shot, but why am I getting a deja vu about you slipping
> on ice and breaking something in your body? Didn't this happen last
> year? Or is this new icing on the cake of human frailty?

I must have joined the accident of the year club somewhere along the
way. This year I won a steel plate and 9 screws to hold my collarbone
together.

Right out on front of The Dakota of all places. Night before Bruce
played too. Forever keeps me in stories.

No time for another verse though; looks like some kind of ship has
come in...


 
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
End of messages
« Back to Discussions « Newer topic     Older topic »