[ORIGINS] and Twilight Rebellion
Kevin M.
As Twilight Rebellion's release date is May 28th, and Origins begins on
May 25th, can we get an exemption and have TR legal beginning May 25th? I
am asking because having the set legal for the few convention days before
the Qualifier allows the players to practice their "new" decks and decide
what to use for the qualifier. I realize that this may allow someone else
in the world to run a TR tournament 3 days early, but I believe that the
benefits greatly outweigh any negatives.
Also, it would mean a lot to us if you said 'yes'. =)
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
The Lasombra
>LSJ,
>As Twilight Rebellion's release date is May 28th, and Origins begins on
>May 25th, can we get an exemption and have TR legal beginning May 25th?
Prerelease events are not sanctioned.
If you can get Oscar to provide product, you can run an event.
Frederick Scott
news:JGMWj.28694$UM3....@newsfe15.phx...
> As Twilight Rebellion's release date is May 28th, and Origins begins on
> May 25th,
Oh, wow! Origins is now over Memorial Day? weekend!? Since when
did this start?
Fred
Frederick Scott
news:k97n24ppf06teskr9...@4ax.com...
As I understand it, prerelease events _can_ be sanctioned if they're run
as legal limited tournaments. It even mentions this in rule 4.3. You
can't do some of the odd special rules like the 40/40 rule and still have
it sanctioned but otherwise it's perfectly OK.
Why do people not know this? Even Robyn assumed my 3E pre-release
tournament last year wasn't sanctioned.
Fred
Obtenebration
(games starting at 8 a.m.) running 'till 8 p.m. on the 29th.
Registration is open from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. Wednesday - Saturday (and
'till 4 p.m. on Sunday) and though game-playing is 24 hours a day,
games tend to be between 8 a.m. and Midnight. The Exhibit Hall is open
10 a.m. to 6 p.m. on Thursday - Saturday and 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. on
Sunday."
http://www.originsgamefair.com/
I think he fat fingered the Origins date, and would like a waiver to
run a sanctioned tournament since it falls just shy of 1 month after
release.
Kevin M.
> "Kevin M." wrote:
>
>> LSJ,
>> As Twilight Rebellion's release date is May 28th, and Origins begins
>> on May 25th, can we get an exemption and have TR legal beginning
>> May25th?
>
> Prerelease events are not sanctioned.
> If you can get Oscar to provide product, you can run an event.
Damnit, I meant June 25th, of course. :)
Rehlow
There used to be something about playtesters couldn't play in
Sanctioned Limited events for at least 30 days. I don't see that in
the Tournament Rules. Maybe its in some sort of playtester agreement
or maybe it doesn't exist anymore.
Later,
~Rehlow
LSJ
When most people say "sanctioned" they mean "rated".
Pre-release events, no matter the form, are not rated.
Peter D Bakija
> Prerelease events are not sanctioned.
> If you can get Oscar to provide product, you can run an event.
Kevin accidentally ng date. It is June 25th. I'm pretty sure he is
trying to get special dispensation for Twilight Rebellion to be
tournament legal at Origins, which means making the set tournament
legal 3 days early.
-Peter
mat...@gmail.com
Twilight Rebellion will be legal at Origins. If TR is released May28
it will be legal June27 or 28. Sat June 28 will be the qualifier. No
one will play an anarch deck (the guantlet has been thrown)
Matt
Frederick Scott
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:seUWj.3157$ah4....@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...
Eh? Why would they be sanctioned but not rated? I'm not sure it matters
a ton or anything, but is there a rule or something I'm missing?
Fred
...thinks "sanctioned but not rated" is a distinction that's probably
not worth having
John P.
> Twilight Rebellion will be legal at Origins. If TR is released May28
> it will be legal June27 or 28. Sat June 28 will be the qualifier. No
> one will play an anarch deck (the guantlet has been thrown)
>
> Matt
But if you go back to Kevin's original post, and excuse the date
error, in it he requests TR to be legal for the start of Origins (June
25) so that participants could become accustomed to the new cards in
an event or two before the qualifier.
John P
Winnipeg
Sadly not going to Origins.... yet ;)
mat...@gmail.com
> But if you go back to Kevin's original post, and excuse the date
> error, in it he requests TR to be legal for the start of Origins (June
> 25) so that participants could become accustomed to the new cards in
> an event or two before the qualifier.
>
> John P
> Winnipeg
> Sadly not going to Origins.... yet ;)
I understand that but I like the idea of a set becoming legal in the
middle(end?) of event. I do not think this set will change change the
game that much, but it could be an interesting study on the impact of
a set coming into play.
If I were going I would play decks that wanted(could use) cards form
the new set then make the changes to see performance impact. Of
course, this would be more interesting if sets are legal on friday.
But I play the game for fun, not just to win. Wish I was going.
Matt
Peter D Bakija
> Eh? Why would they be sanctioned but not rated? I'm not sure it matters
> a ton or anything, but is there a rule or something I'm missing?
"Sanctioned" means that the event is following official rules (i.e.no
funny house rules or variants or whatever).
"Rated" means that it generates rating points.
Something can be sanctioned but not rated (like a official
prerelease). I'm pretty sure that something can't be rated but not
sanctioned.
It seems likely that most sanctioned events are rated events, but in
the case of something like a prerelease (which does not use rating due
to the brand new cards), you got sanctioned (following the official
rules) but not rated.
-Peter
Jozxyqk
> Pre-release events, no matter the form, are not rated.
The VEKN rules imply otherwise:
-----
4.3. New Releases
New V:TES cards and rules (new expansions, new editions of the basic set, new
rules released in expansions or basic sets, and promotional cards) are allowed
in Constructed tournament play beginning 30 days after their retail release
date. V:EKN announcements confirm the exact date that each new card set enters
tournament play before the set is released.
New cards or rules are allowed in Limited tournament play immediately, including
before the release date (for example, at a Prerelease tournament).
-----
Frederick Scott
"Peter D Bakija" <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote in message news:1acb62aa-7723-4cd6...@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On May 15, 12:16 pm, "Frederick Scott" <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> wrote:
> > Eh? Why would they be sanctioned but not rated? I'm not sure it matters
> > a ton or anything, but is there a rule or something I'm missing?
>
> "Sanctioned" means that the event is following official rules (i.e.no
> funny house rules or variants or whatever).
>
> "Rated" means that it generates rating points.
>
> Something can be sanctioned but not rated (like a official
> prerelease). I'm pretty sure that something can't be rated but not
> sanctioned.
I understood the semantics. My question was about, "Where does it say
this in the rules, web pages, or other wellsprings of authorized
official-dom?"
I sure hope this is not another "ruling" which is "documented" through Usenet
archival. :-P
Fred
(just search, "tournament + sanction + prerelease + LSJ" :-P)
LSJ
How does that imply that pre-release events are rated?
Frederick Scott
Per "Introduction" of this document:
"The Vampire: Elder Kindred Network (V:EKN) Tournament Rules help maintain fair
and consistent worldwide sanctioned tournament play for all Vampire: The Eternal
StruggleTM (V:TES) games."
This would appear to me to imply that all tournaments described in this document
are considered "sanctioned tournaments". Then...
From the White Wolf web page documenting the rating system, under "Computing Rating",
second paragraph, first sentence:
"Each player's rating is based only on sanctioned tournaments attending in the
preceding 18 months."
So we see sanctioned tournament are used to compute ratings. Voila! Implication.
Fred
Peter D Bakija
> I understood the semantics. My question was about, "Where does it say
> this in the rules, web pages, or other wellsprings of authorized
> official-dom?"
>
> I sure hope this is not another "ruling" which is "documented" through Usenet
> archival. :-P
Huh. I didn't think it was something that needed to be said anywhere.
Or ruled on. It is just something that is--you can have a sanctioned
event that isn't rated (i.e. pre-release; they are sanctioned if they
are using the offical rules, but they don't generate rating points,
due to being outside the realm of things that get rated). Or maybe I
am misunderstanding you.
-Peter
Frederick Scott
Well, it kind of needs to be said somewhere what is "outside the realm of
things that get rated" and what is not. Don't you think?
> Or maybe I am misunderstanding you.
Apparently. Or at least say, I'm not understanding why "things that are
rated" vs. "things that are not" seems to be an obvious distinction to
you but not to me. People like me need these things written down
somewhere.
Fred
Peter D Bakija
> Well, it kind of needs to be said somewhere what is "outside the realm of
> things that get rated" and what is not. Don't you think?
I thought it did say that pre-release events were not rated. As they
are using cards that are not yet legal for sanctioned tournaments
(i.e. cards that are less than 1 month old).
> Apparently. Or at least say, I'm not understanding why "things that are
> rated" vs. "things that are not" seems to be an obvious distinction to
> you but not to me. People like me need these things written down
> somewhere.
The only things that aren't rated, as far as I am aware are things:
A) That are not sanctioned (events with homemade rules).
B) That are using cards that are not legal for rated play (pre-
release?)
And I'm pretty sure it says somewhere that pre-release events are not
sanctioned. Although I probably couldn't find it if I needed to.
-Peter
Jozxyqk
> Jozxyqk wrote:
> > 4.3. New Releases
> >
> > New cards or rules are allowed in Limited tournament play immediately, including
> > before the release date (for example, at a Prerelease tournament).
> > -----
> How does that imply that pre-release events are rated?
If a prerelease tournament uses a standard Limited format, and doesn't include
playtesters, where in the VEKN rules does it differentiate this format from any
other Limited format? 4.3 seems to treat them the same.
I also found this message, where you said that prerelease tournaments are
able to be "rated" if they follow the correct sanctioning procedures:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/1fbbaf97e627c9ed
Jozxyqk
At least this is better than arguing about pronouns
LSJ
> LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> Jozxyqk wrote:
>>> 4.3. New Releases
>>>
>>> New cards or rules are allowed in Limited tournament play immediately, including
>>> before the release date (for example, at a Prerelease tournament).
>>> -----
>
>> How does that imply that pre-release events are rated?
>
> If a prerelease tournament uses a standard Limited format, and doesn't include
> playtesters, where in the VEKN rules does it differentiate this format from any
> other Limited format? 4.3 seems to treat them the same.
Ah. With the addition of a few unstated caveats.
Thanks.
Jozxyqk
> > If a prerelease tournament uses a standard Limited format, and doesn't include
> > playtesters, where in the VEKN rules does it differentiate this format from any
> > other Limited format? 4.3 seems to treat them the same.
> Ah. With the addition of a few unstated caveats.
> Thanks.
Right.
But you had just said:
> Pre-release events, *no matter the form*, are not rated.
(emphasis mine)
which I was trying to prove incorrect.
That's all.
Frederick Scott
> The only things that aren't rated, as far as I am aware are things:
>
> A) That are not sanctioned (events with homemade rules).
Sure.
> B) That are using cards that are not legal for rated play (pre-
> release?)
Ah, we're squirming around with the semantics again. If (B), then
where do I find a list of the "cards that are not legal for rated
play"? In fact, there's a specific clause negating the 30-day
waiting period for limited tournaments in the tournament rules, so
this isn't the reason pre-releases don't qualify.
> And I'm pretty sure it says somewhere that pre-release events are not
> sanctioned. Although I probably couldn't find it if I needed to.
In fact, the snipped James quoted implies otherwise. That's probably
why you can't find it.
Fred
Peter D Bakija
> Ah, we're squirming around with the semantics again. If (B), then
> where do I find a list of the "cards that are not legal for rated
> play"? In fact, there's a specific clause negating the 30-day
> waiting period for limited tournaments in the tournament rules, so
> this isn't the reason pre-releases don't qualify.
I'm really not attempting to squirm around anything, semantic or
otherwise. I have always been under the impression, for whatever
reason I cannot currently identify, that pre-release events (much like
story line events), are not rated. But if they follow the rules as
presented by the VEKN, they are sanctioned. As that seems to be the
case, it had to have been made clear at some point by someone.
> In fact, the snipped James quoted implies otherwise. That's probably
> why you can't find it.
Maybe? I dunno.
-Peter