A Silly Question About Disciplines
Chris Berger
I'm wondering - is the list of disciplines printed on rules cards (and
possibly in the rulebook? I don't have one handy to check if it's
printed there) an exclusive list? If I have an effect that allows me
to pick a discipline, can I choose an arbitrary, even non-existent
discipline? If my prey has not discarded anything yet, and has
Huitzilopochtli in play with 1 blood and a 10 counter Call the Great
Beast, can I Temptation him, then add a counter to the Beast, choosing
Bardo, Mortis, and... umm... I dunno, Hypothermia? Just to make sure
that I don't accidentally give him a discipline that he can use?
I know it's unlikely to ever come up in play, and I'm not sure what
the point would be of putting Agent of Power on Ian Forestal and then
using Sanguine Instruction to create an army of vampires with a non-
existent discipline. But I was just wondering what the rule is.
The Baron was originally, I believe, printed as a promo before
Bloodlines came out. When he was printed, did he simply have a
useless shadow-hand symbol on him? Did he automatically define a
discipline called Thanatosis, or was there just a temporary ruling in
place that defined Thanatosis as a discipline until the set actually
came out with a rules card that defined the discipline, meaning for a
time, you could possibly Infernal Pact for superior in a discipline
that had no cards printed for it (but can no longer do so)?
So, yeah, basically, if a discipline is not listed in the rules, does
that make it not a discipline? Or could it still be a discipline that
just has no use?
LSJ
> I'm wondering - is the list of disciplines printed on rules cards (and
> possibly in the rulebook? I don't have one handy to check if it's
> printed there) an exclusive list?
It's an exhaustive list, yeah.
> If I have an effect that allows me
> to pick a discipline, can I choose an arbitrary, even non-existent
> discipline? If my prey has not discarded anything yet, and has
> Huitzilopochtli in play with 1 blood and a 10 counter Call the Great
> Beast, can I Temptation him, then add a counter to the Beast, choosing
> Bardo, Mortis, and... umm... I dunno, Hypothermia? Just to make sure
> that I don't accidentally give him a discipline that he can use?
No.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/6636312ad8467b93
Obtenebration
rule book. Based on The Great Beasts text, is simply says "choose 3
disciplines." It doesn't say choose 3 different or 3 unique
disciplines. So would it be legal to hose someone by choosing the
same discipline 3 times in this highly unlikely scenario? Great Beast
with MEL three times, fear it!
Cardtype: Action
Clan: Baali
Cost: 1 blood
+1 stealth action.
Put this card on the acting Baali and put X ritual counters on it,
where X is the capacity of this Baali. This Baali may put a ritual
counter on this card as a +1 stealth action. When this card has more
than 10 ritual counters, burn this Baali and choose three Disciplines.
This card becomes a unique clanless independent infernal vampire with
9 capacity, 4 strength and 3 bleed. The Great Beast has the chosen
three Disciplines at superior. Move 9 blood to him from the blood
bank. The Great Beast can enter combat with any ready minion
controlled by another Methuselah as a (D) action and can prevent 1
damage each combat.
Chris Berger
wrote:
> I can't seem to find any other example of this, or anything in the
> rule book. Based on The Great Beasts text, is simply says "choose 3
> disciplines." It doesn't say choose 3 different or 3 unique
> disciplines. So would it be legal to hose someone by choosing the
> same discipline 3 times in this highly unlikely scenario? Great Beast
> with MEL three times, fear it!
>
Reckless Agitation, for one. It doesn't say "2 other distinct
methuselahs", but obviously can't be interpreted as choosing the same
methuselah twice, without ridiculously twisting the language. If it
said something like "choose a discipline, 3 times", which would be a
weird way to word that, then I would say you could choose the same
discipline, but "choose 3 disciplines" clearly implies that the
disciplines be different from each other.
If you actually ran into the situation where you could use this, it
would still be relatively easy to hose the Great Beast by choosing
disciplines that no deck would reasonably choose... Melpominee, for
one. Valeran, Thanatosis, Temporis, Mytherceria, Chimerstry, Spiritus
seem like pretty good choices, too. They may be good disciplines, but
unlikely to be played in a Great Beast deck. Animalism, Celerity,
Vicissitude, Abombwe, Presence might work too. Depends on what you
expect from that player.
LSJ
> I can't seem to find any other example of this, or anything in the
> rule book. Based on The Great Beasts text, is simply says "choose 3
> disciplines." It doesn't say choose 3 different or 3 unique
> disciplines. So would it be legal to hose someone by choosing the
> same discipline 3 times in this highly unlikely scenario? Great Beast
> with MEL three times, fear it!
No. Similarly, you can't choose the same Blood Brother 20 times for Coagulated
Entity to get +20 strength. Similarly Walk of Caine (!), Gestalt, and
Revolutionary Council (!).
Xexyz
> Obtenebration wrote:
> > I can't seem to find any other example of this, or anything in the
> > rule book. Based on The Great Beasts text, is simply says "choose 3
> > disciplines." It doesn't say choose 3 different or 3 unique
> > disciplines. So would it be legal to hose someone by choosing the
> > same discipline 3 times in this highly unlikely scenario? Great Beast
> > with MEL three times, fear it!
In addition, vampires may only have 0, 1 (inferior), or 2 (superior)
levels of a discpline. I believe in the Great Beast's case trying to
give him Melpominee twice would be giving him 4 levels of a
discipline, which is illegal.
Chris Berger
I'm pretty sure it's not illegal to give a vampire extra levels of a
discipline, unless the card says so (which discipline cards do). But
moot in this case.
James Coupe
That's fine.
For example, you can give a vampire without Obfuscate an Obfuscate
master card (+1 level). Then you can give it a Changeling Skin Mask (2
levels). 3 levels. But it maxes out at 2. Levels beyond that are
simply irrelevant.
I guess, in theory, you could have a card where you lost one or more
levels of a discipline (without getting rid of the master card,
equipment etc.) and still have superior in a situation like the above,
but I don't think that's possible with current cards.
--
James Coupe
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