[LSJ] Some Imbued-related card questions
Petri Wessman
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-Maman Boumba (Martyr): "During a referendum, Maman may burn a conviction
[1 CONVICTION] to get 3 votes against the referendum. You may tap Maman
before range is determined in a combat between two monsters to end that
combat."
Can the "burn conviction for 3 votes" effect be used multiple times per
referendum? I'd say no, since it seems to fit into the general "during X,
may do Y" template, but would like confirmation.
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Expiate and Left for Dead
Expiate: "Requires an imbued with 5 conviction. Only usable before range
is determined on the first round.
If two consecutive rounds of combat occur at close range and this imbued
remains ready, this imbued burns 5 conviction [5 CONVICTION] during the
press step of that second round to burn himself or herself and the opposing
monster. Otherwise, this imbued burns 1 conviction [1 CONVICTION] when
combat ends."
Left for Dead: "Master: out-of-turn. Only usable as an ally is burned in
combat. Combat ends. Put this card on that ally; that ally is not burned.
Put 1 life on the ally from the blood bank if he or she has no life. Tap
the ally. If the ally with this card enters combat, he or she is burned.
Burn this card instead of untapping the ally during his or her next untap
phase."
Now, if the ally takes enough damage during second round to push it to
incap, LfD cannot be played, since the "ally is burned" clause does not
activate, right? In this case, Expiate does not activate, since the Imbued
is no longer ready at the 2nd round press step.
But what about the case where Expiate does activate? Say Imbued A blocks
vampire V. Expiate is played in 1st round, combat continues to 2nd round, A
is still ready at 2nd round press step. A burns 5 conviction to burn
himself and V. Fine. But what happens if LfD is now played on A?
Seems to me that LfD would save the A, the Imbued. But what about vampire V,
does it still get burned or does the "combat ends" clause in LfD nullify
that effect?
Secondary question, just to make sure: from Expiate wording, I assume that
the imbued *must* activate the Expiate effect if he still has the 5
conviction at 2nd round press step, it's not a matter of choice. Right?
----
Are Conviction cards "cards that require Imbued"?
This is more a theoretical question, prompted by the card Unity: "Master:
unique hunter-list. Tap this card and burn 1 pool to move
two cards that require an imbued (or a creed or a virtue) from your ash
heap to the top of your library. You may then cut your library once."
So can Unity be used to bring Conviction cards from the ash to your library?
I have no idea why on earth you'd want to do this, like I said this is more
a theory question :)
----
Determine: "Play when a monster controlled by your predator is bleeding
you. Tap this reacting imbued. The monster is now bleeding your predator's
predator.
Or play when a monster controlled by your predator or prey plays an action
card. Tap this reacting imbued and cancel that action card as it is played
(no cost is paid, and the monster doesn't tap). That monster cannot play
the same action card again this turn."
Can Determine be used to cancel political actions, i.e. are political
actions classed as "action cards" for this purpose?
----
That's all for now, all info (or educated guesswork from non-LSJs :)
appreciated. ;)
//Petri
LSJ
> -Maman Boumba (Martyr): "During a referendum, Maman may burn a conviction
> [1 CONVICTION] to get 3 votes against the referendum. You may tap Maman
> before range is determined in a combat between two monsters to end that
> combat."
>
> Can the "burn conviction for 3 votes" effect be used multiple times per
> referendum? I'd say no, since it seems to fit into the general "during X,
> may do Y" template, but would like confirmation.
No, per the template, correct.
> Expiate and Left for Dead
>
> Expiate: "Requires an imbued with 5 conviction. Only usable before range
> is determined on the first round.
> If two consecutive rounds of combat occur at close range and this imbued
> remains ready, this imbued burns 5 conviction [5 CONVICTION] during the
> press step of that second round to burn himself or herself and the opposing
> monster. Otherwise, this imbued burns 1 conviction [1 CONVICTION] when
> combat ends."
>
> Left for Dead: "Master: out-of-turn. Only usable as an ally is burned in
> combat. Combat ends. Put this card on that ally; that ally is not burned.
> Put 1 life on the ally from the blood bank if he or she has no life. Tap
> the ally. If the ally with this card enters combat, he or she is burned.
> Burn this card instead of untapping the ally during his or her next untap
> phase."
>
> Now, if the ally takes enough damage during second round to push it to
> incap, LfD cannot be played, since the "ally is burned" clause does not
> activate, right? In this case, Expiate does not activate, since the Imbued
> is no longer ready at the 2nd round press step.
Correct. Indeed, the press step of the second round is never reached,
since combat ended when the imbued was incapacitated.
> But what about the case where Expiate does activate? Say Imbued A blocks
> vampire V. Expiate is played in 1st round, combat continues to 2nd round, A
> is still ready at 2nd round press step. A burns 5 conviction to burn
> himself and V. Fine. But what happens if LfD is now played on A?
>
> Seems to me that LfD would save the A, the Imbued. But what about vampire V,
> does it still get burned or does the "combat ends" clause in LfD nullify
> that effect?
He still burns.
> Secondary question, just to make sure: from Expiate wording, I assume that
> the imbued *must* activate the Expiate effect if he still has the 5
> conviction at 2nd round press step, it's not a matter of choice. Right?
Correct.
> Are Conviction cards "cards that require Imbued"?
>
> This is more a theoretical question, prompted by the card Unity: "Master:
> unique hunter-list. Tap this card and burn 1 pool to move
> two cards that require an imbued (or a creed or a virtue) from your ash
> heap to the top of your library. You may then cut your library once."
>
> So can Unity be used to bring Conviction cards from the ash to your library?
>
> I have no idea why on earth you'd want to do this, like I said this is more
> a theory question :)
Yes.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/3ad090dd472def3d
> Determine: "Play when a monster controlled by your predator is bleeding
> you. Tap this reacting imbued. The monster is now bleeding your predator's
> predator.
> Or play when a monster controlled by your predator or prey plays an action
> card. Tap this reacting imbued and cancel that action card as it is played
> (no cost is paid, and the monster doesn't tap). That monster cannot play
> the same action card again this turn."
>
> Can Determine be used to cancel political actions, i.e. are political
> actions classed as "action cards" for this purpose?
Yes. They're action cards for all purposes. See also Direct
Intervention.
Petri Wessman
>> Can Determine be used to cancel political actions, i.e. are political
>> actions classed as "action cards" for this purpose?
>
> Yes. They're action cards for all purposes. See also Direct
> Intervention.
Thanks for all the answers. I just realized that by reading the rulebook,
the term "action card" seems to cover quite a lot. So, the following are
all "action cards" and can be zapped by Determine (with cancel rulings
working like with Direct Intervention) (?)
- Action Cards (duh :)
- Political Actions
- Retainers
- Allies
- Equipment
This makes Determine more powerful than I had initially supposed.
//Petri
LSJ
Petri Wessman wrote:
> LSJ wrote:
>
> >> Can Determine be used to cancel political actions, i.e. are political
> >> actions classed as "action cards" for this purpose?
> >
> > Yes. They're action cards for all purposes. See also Direct
> > Intervention.
>
> Thanks for all the answers. I just realized that by reading the rulebook,
> the term "action card" seems to cover quite a lot. So, the following are
> all "action cards" and can be zapped by Determine (with cancel rulings
> working like with Direct Intervention) (?)
DI has "untap the actor" based on whether or not the canceled card was
an "action card". That's the only reason it was a "see also" above.
But, yes, the cancel rulings for one match the cancel rulings for all
(subject to card text regarding the non-payment of cost, etc.)
> - Action Cards (duh :)
> - Political Actions
> - Retainers
> - Allies
> - Equipment
Correct. Powers are also "action cards", but are unlikely to be
zappable by Determine, since monsters don't usually qualify to play
them.
Petri Wessman
> DI has "untap the actor" based on whether or not the canceled card was
> an "action card". That's the only reason it was a "see also" above.
Ah, thanks. Missed that connection.
//Petri
Ankur Gupta
> (subject to card text regarding the non-payment of cost, etc.)
A quick question:
What is the default meaning of "cancel", barring specific card text? In
other words, what is the meaning of "cancel". I am trying to understand
which phrases are reminder text and which alter the default behavior of
cancelling effects.
Ankur Gupta
Prince of West Lafayette
LSJ
Default is that cost is paid.
Ankur Gupta
>>
>> What is the default meaning of "cancel", barring specific card text? In
>> other words, what is the meaning of "cancel". I am trying to understand
>> which phrases are reminder text and which alter the default behavior of
>> cancelling effects.
>
> Default is that cost is paid.
What about with regard to whether a minion can play the card again (if
such restrictions would otherwise apply), or whether the minion acting
(with an action card) is untapped. . . . Is it equivalent to "card is
played, but has no effect"?
Ankur
LSJ
> What about with regard to whether a minion can play the card again (if
> such restrictions would otherwise apply)
Default is no change.
If the rules or uncanceled card text specifies that a card cannot be
played, then it cannot.
>, or whether the minion acting
> (with an action card) is untapped. . . . Is it equivalent to "card is
> played, but has no effect"?
Default is no change.
In the particular case of action cards, the default is not to start the
action -- don't tap.
tzimisce_dragon
Petri Wessman wrote:
>
> This makes Determine more powerful than I had initially supposed.
>
well, it is a very good card which can be used in two ways, both useful
and
powerful :)
take a closer look to Champion, this one is quite powerful too.
as you can make a +34 stealth +82 bleed fail with just 2 convictions
and
then you enter combat with the acting minion... This is not
neccessarily bad,
as in most cases you'll use champion to make a bleed or political
action fail,
thus there good chances that the acting minion will not be someone you
cannot
handle in combat... :)
Greg
tzimisce_dragon wrote:
> take a closer look to Champion, this one is quite powerful too.
>
> as you can make a +34 stealth +82 bleed fail with just 2 convictions and
> then you enter combat with the acting minion... This is not neccessarily bad,
> as in most cases you'll use champion to make a bleed or political action fail,
You cannot use Champion to nuke a Political Action. It must be a (D)
action against you or any Imbued.
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- Gregory Stuart Pettigrew