[LSJ] out of play and Kerrie
Reyda !
just a simple question :
Karsh opposes the kikiyaon in combat.
The kikiyaon manoeuvers to long and uses his kerry to strike at
strength damage. The kerrie is now "out of play". Karsh plays body of
sun, and then amaranth to diablerize the kikiyaon.
i assume that karsh cannot retrieve the kerrie.
i also assume that the kerrie, despite being out of play, was still on
the kikiyaon so it goes to the ash heap when the kikiyaon is burned.
Am i right or is there something i didn't compute ?
thank you.
James Coupe
>Karsh opposes the kikiyaon in combat.
>The kikiyaon manoeuvers to long and uses his kerry to strike at
>strength damage. The kerrie is now "out of play".
Not yet. It goes out of play after strike resolution.
>Karsh plays body of
>sun, and then amaranth to diablerize the kikiyaon.
>
>i assume that karsh cannot retrieve the kerrie.
The question is when does Amaranth get played.
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=outline
Damage resolution is part of strike resolution (6.3.2.2). Moving a
vampire to torpor is part of damage resolution (7.2). The vampire
"should go to torpor" during damage resolution. So Amaranth appears to
be being played during damage resolution.
Strike resolution hasn't yet finished, so Kerrie is in play.
>i also assume that the kerrie, despite being out of play, was still on
>the kikiyaon so it goes to the ash heap when the kikiyaon is burned.
>Am i right or is there something i didn't compute ?
If there was an out-of-play Kerrie on the burning vampire (say, this is
a second round or an additional strike and the Kerrie went out of play
already), the Kerrie would go to the ash heap when the minion it was on
burned. This follows the parallel for other out of play cards on a
burned minion, such as a contested Fame.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
Reyda !
> Reyda ! <Rey...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Karsh opposes the kikiyaon in combat.
> >The kikiyaon manoeuvers to long and uses his kerry to strike at
> >strength damage. The kerrie is now "out of play".
>
> Not yet. It goes out of play after strike resolution.
>
> >Karsh plays body of
> >sun, and then amaranth to diablerize the kikiyaon.
>
> >i assume that karsh cannot retrieve the kerrie.
>
> The question is when does Amaranth get played.
>
> http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=outline
>
> Damage resolution is part of strike resolution (6.3.2.2). Moving a
> vampire to torpor is part of damage resolution (7.2). The vampire
> "should go to torpor" during damage resolution. So Amaranth appears to
> be being played during damage resolution.
>
> Strike resolution hasn't yet finished, so Kerrie is in play.
i simply assumed that, if the damage is applied, the strikes were
resolved. Ok, now i assume this ruling handles this, so ok, the kerrie
would still be face up.
so if the kikiyaon went to torpor due to another effect (say, an
additional ranged strike from karsh), then the kerrie would be out of
reach.
thank you for the quick input.
LSJ
> Reyda ! <Rey...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Karsh opposes the kikiyaon in combat.
>> The kikiyaon manoeuvers to long and uses his kerry to strike at
>> strength damage. The kerrie is now "out of play".
>
> Not yet. It goes out of play after strike resolution.
Correct.
>> Karsh plays body of
>> sun, and then amaranth to diablerize the kikiyaon.
>>
>> i assume that karsh cannot retrieve the kerrie.
>
> The question is when does Amaranth get played.
>
> http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=outline
>
> Damage resolution is part of strike resolution (6.3.2.2). Moving a
> vampire to torpor is part of damage resolution (7.2). The vampire
> "should go to torpor" during damage resolution. So Amaranth appears to
> be being played during damage resolution.
>
> Strike resolution hasn't yet finished, so Kerrie is in play.
Strike resolution finishes before you start looking for vampire to go to torpor.
After strike resolution, Amaranth can be played, but the Kerrie is out of play.
>> i also assume that the kerrie, despite being out of play, was still on
>> the kikiyaon so it goes to the ash heap when the kikiyaon is burned.
>> Am i right or is there something i didn't compute ?
>
> If there was an out-of-play Kerrie on the burning vampire (say, this is
> a second round or an additional strike and the Kerrie went out of play
> already), the Kerrie would go to the ash heap when the minion it was on
> burned. This follows the parallel for other out of play cards on a
> burned minion, such as a contested Fame.
Correct.
James Coupe
>James Coupe wrote:
>> The question is when does Amaranth get played.
>> http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=outline
>> Damage resolution is part of strike resolution (6.3.2.2). Moving a
>> vampire to torpor is part of damage resolution (7.2). The vampire
>> "should go to torpor" during damage resolution. So Amaranth appears to
>> be being played during damage resolution.
>> Strike resolution hasn't yet finished, so Kerrie is in play.
>
>Strike resolution finishes before you start looking for vampire to go to torpor.
The V:TES Complete Rules Reference says otherwise. Damage resolution
is part of strike resolution:
- VI.C.2.c
Moving vampires to torpor is part of damage resolution:
- VII.B.2
How is VII.B.2 happening after strike resolution when it occurs as part
of strike resolution?
Is the outline wrong?
Reyda !
> LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> >Strike resolution finishes before you start looking for vampire to go to torpor.
>
> The V:TES Complete Rules Reference says otherwise. Damage resolution
> is part of strike resolution:
>
> - VI.C.2.c
>
> Moving vampires to torpor is part of damage resolution:
>
> - VII.B.2
>
> How is VII.B.2 happening after strike resolution when it occurs as part
> of strike resolution?
>
> Is the outline wrong?
i would like to know, yes :)
Juggernaut1981
>
> - Show quoted text -
LSJ: I'm very keen to know as I have a deck that features Kerries...
*Waits to hear what ways my !Salubri "Light Sabre" deck could be
screwed...
.oO[still nothing as enjoyable as striking for 7 undodgeable agg for
no pool cost (thankyou Powerbase:Tshwane) and no blood cost (thankyou
Path of Retribution) and still probably prevent 4 damage (thankyou
Valeren combat cards...)]
For those who don't know... the text of Kerrie is:
Kerrie
Type: Equipment
Requires: laibon
Cost: 1 pool
Melee weapon. Requires a Laibon.
Strength+1 damage each strike. Alternatively, inflict strength ranged
damage as a strike and, after strike resolution, turn this weapon face
down (out of play) until the end of the action.
Blooded Sand
> For those who don't know... the text of Kerrie is:
>
> Kerrie
> Type: Equipment
> Requires: laibon
> Cost: 1 pool
> Melee weapon. Requires a Laibon.
> Strength+1 damage each strike. Alternatively, inflict strength ranged
> damage as a strike and, after strike resolution, turn this weapon face
> down (out of play) until the end of the action.
OT, but anyway. Kerrie combines with Strike at the true flesh, even
when striking at long, correct?
Chris Berger
Yes, but more importantly, it combines with Baal's Blood Talons, in an
awesome non-burning way.
Juggernaut1981
Yeah, but Qui doesn't help with my Val deck... and my agg doesn't burn
it either!
Blooded Sand
I need to make Izhim Laibon then...
Matthew T. Morgan
> Yeah, but Qui doesn't help with my Val deck... and my agg doesn't burn
> it either!
That's where you've gone terribly wrong. QUI/VAL is one of the strongest
combos out there. Ask anybody.
Matt Morgan
James Coupe
>LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>>James Coupe wrote:
>>> The question is when does Amaranth get played.
>>> http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=outline
>>> Damage resolution is part of strike resolution (6.3.2.2). Moving a
>>> vampire to torpor is part of damage resolution (7.2). The vampire
>>> "should go to torpor" during damage resolution. So Amaranth appears to
>>> be being played during damage resolution.
>>> Strike resolution hasn't yet finished, so Kerrie is in play.
>>
>>Strike resolution finishes before you start looking for vampire to go
>>to torpor.
>
>The V:TES Complete Rules Reference says otherwise. Damage resolution
>is part of strike resolution:
>
>- VI.C.2.c
>
>Moving vampires to torpor is part of damage resolution:
>
>- VII.B.2
>
>
>How is VII.B.2 happening after strike resolution when it occurs as part
>of strike resolution?
>
>Is the outline wrong?
Any chance of a clarification here? Your statement here contradicts
the apparent description of the events in the Complete Rules Reference.
Which is right? And can the Complete Rules Reference be updated if it's
LSJ
> James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote:
>> LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>>> James Coupe wrote:
>>>> The question is when does Amaranth get played.
>>>> http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=outline
>>>> Damage resolution is part of strike resolution (6.3.2.2). Moving a
>>>> vampire to torpor is part of damage resolution (7.2). The vampire
>>>> "should go to torpor" during damage resolution. So Amaranth appears to
>>>> be being played during damage resolution.
>>>> Strike resolution hasn't yet finished, so Kerrie is in play.
>>> Strike resolution finishes before you start looking for vampire to go
>>> to torpor.
>> The V:TES Complete Rules Reference says otherwise. Damage resolution
>> is part of strike resolution:
>>
>> - VI.C.2.c
>>
>> Moving vampires to torpor is part of damage resolution:
>>
>> - VII.B.2
>>
>>
>> How is VII.B.2 happening after strike resolution when it occurs as part
>> of strike resolution?
>>
>> Is the outline wrong?
>
> Any chance of a clarification here? Your statement here contradicts
> the apparent description of the events in the Complete Rules Reference.
The clarification is given above.
Strike resolution finishes before you start looking for vampire to go to torpor.
> Which is right? And can the Complete Rules Reference be updated if it's
> wrong?
Of course.
Juggernaut1981
> James Coupe wrote:
> > James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
So, to double check...
Since the Kerrie leaves play after strike resolution AND vampires go
to torpor after strike resolution...
Which of these is true:
#1 The controller of the acting minion can play Amaranth before the
Kerrie leaves play.
#2 The controller of the Kerrie must turn it face down and out of play
before any discretionary actions are taken (akin to the Mandatory
Actions rule)
#3 Something else entirely?
LSJ
> So, to double check...
> Since the Kerrie leaves play after strike resolution AND vampires go
> to torpor after strike resolution...
> Which of these is true:
> #1 The controller of the acting minion can play Amaranth before the
> Kerrie leaves play.
> #2 The controller of the Kerrie must turn it face down and out of play
> before any discretionary actions are taken (akin to the Mandatory
> Actions rule)
> #3 Something else entirely?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/5d3b1e712c1246d5
Juggernaut1981
LSJ: The reason for the question is that both effects are "after
strike resolution".
Amaranth because the vampire needs to be "going to torpor" (which
happens during damage resolution)
Kerrie because "and, after strike resolution, turn this weapon face
down (out of play) until the end of the action."
So, does the Kerrie take a precendence over the Amaranth because it is
"Mandatory" (like Mandatory actions during the minion phase)?
LSJ
> On Apr 20, 9:37 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> Juggernaut1981 wrote:
>>> So, to double check...
>>> Since the Kerrie leaves play after strike resolution AND vampires go
>>> to torpor after strike resolution...
>>> Which of these is true:
>>> #1 The controller of the acting minion can play Amaranth before the
>>> Kerrie leaves play.
>>> #2 The controller of the Kerrie must turn it face down and out of play
>>> before any discretionary actions are taken (akin to the Mandatory
>>> Actions rule)
>>> #3 Something else entirely?
>> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/5d3b...
>
> LSJ: The reason for the question is that both effects are "after
> strike resolution".
?
From that link:
Strike resolution finishes before you start looking for vampire to go to torpor.
Juggernaut1981
>
> - Show quoted text -
If there were other "after strike resolution" effects (other than
"checking for going to torpor"), how do you sequence them?
LSJ
> If there were other "after strike resolution" effects (other than
> "checking for going to torpor"), how do you sequence them?
If there are effects that occur "at the same time" you use the sequencing rules.
Reyda !
this is quite clear and simple :)
thank you !