Promos for KoT
as...@hotmail.com
you think?
House of Sorrow
Cardtype: Master
Cost: 1 pool
Master: unique location
Tap to untap any card you control that is not a minion. If you do so,
neither that card nor this location untap as normal on your next untap
phase.
Subdued by the Blood
Cardtype: Master
Master: out-of-turn. Trifle.
Play when a vampire diablerizes a vampires of more that twice his or
her capacity (before the blood hunt referendum, if any). Usable on
your own turn. Move the victim from the ash heap to his or her owner's
ready region, any move all blood from the diablerist to him or her.
Remove the diablerist from the game.
(Cool I think!)
Two Wrongs
Cardtype: Master
Master: out-of-turn. Trifle.
Play when a minion controlled by a Methuselah other than your predator
is bleeding you. That minion is now bleeding his or her prey. The next
card that would change the target of this bleed is canceled as it is
played.
(Powerful I think!)
Lay Low
Cardtype: Action Modifier
Cost: 1 blood
Requires an anarch.
Only usable when a blood hunt referendum passes and would burn this
anarch. Move this anarch to the uncontrolled region (breaking any
temporary control effects). Any cards and counters on this vampire
remain with him or her (but are out of play as long as the vampire
remains uncontrolled).
Blooded Sand
> I have not seen any discussion about the new promos here... What do
> you think?
>
> House of Sorrow
> Cardtype: Master
> Cost: 1 pool
> Master: unique location
> Tap to untap any card you control that is not a minion. If you do so,
> neither that card nor this location untap as normal on your next untap
> phase.
Seems very strong when used correctly. Could make for incredible
lunges, for example with Enkil Cog.
>
> Subdued by the Blood
> Cardtype: Master
> Master: out-of-turn. Trifle.
> Play when a vampire diablerizes a vampires of more that twice his or
> her capacity (before the blood hunt referendum, if any). Usable on
> your own turn. Move the victim from the ash heap to his or her owner's
> ready region, any move all blood from the diablerist to him or her.
> Remove the diablerist from the game.
>
> (Cool I think!)
But wallpaper as most cards that have Diablerie as their main focus...
>
> Two Wrongs
> Cardtype: Master
> Master: out-of-turn. Trifle.
> Play when a minion controlled by a Methuselah other than your predator
> is bleeding you. That minion is now bleeding his or her prey. The next
> card that would change the target of this bleed is canceled as it is
> played.
>
> (Powerful I think!)
Very strong indeed, will make a significant difference to bounce.
Along with disciplineless bounce, this is nearly enough for a non DOM/
AUS deck to not be a bleed sinkhole.
Orpheus
> I have not seen any discussion about the new promos here... What do
> you think?
I think the main reason is that most of us hadn't read those texts yet...
> House of Sorrow
> Cardtype: Master
> Cost: 1 pool
> Master: unique location
> Tap to untap any card you control that is not a minion. If you do so,
> neither that card nor this location untap as normal on your next untap
> phase.
Wow !!
I've dreamt of such a card for a long time. The possibilities are endless...
Ok, there's a counterpart, but well timed it can be quite good.
> Subdued by the Blood
> Cardtype: Master
> Master: out-of-turn. Trifle.
> Play when a vampire diablerizes a vampires of more that twice his or
> her capacity (before the blood hunt referendum, if any). Usable on
> your own turn. Move the victim from the ash heap to his or her owner's
> ready region, any move all blood from the diablerist to him or her.
> Remove the diablerist from the game.
>
> (Cool I think!)
Cornercase at best. Probably just plain wallpaper.
> Two Wrongs
> Cardtype: Master
> Master: out-of-turn. Trifle.
> Play when a minion controlled by a Methuselah other than your predator
> is bleeding you. That minion is now bleeding his or her prey. The next
> card that would change the target of this bleed is canceled as it is
> played.
>
> (Powerful I think!)
Excellent for non-redirecting decks, if they don't want to become the
table's bleed sink !! Very good. Can work also in a redirecting deck
sometimes.
> Lay Low
> Cardtype: Action Modifier
> Cost: 1 blood
> Requires an anarch.
> Only usable when a blood hunt referendum passes and would burn this
> anarch. Move this anarch to the uncontrolled region (breaking any
> temporary control effects). Any cards and counters on this vampire
> remain with him or her (but are out of play as long as the vampire
> remains uncontrolled).
Nice ! Now Diablerie becomes a good reason for Anarchy, and in aggro decks
you've got the blood (from the diablerie) to come back into "controlness".
Could be too good for weenies ?
All in all, good cards, Subdued is the only one I don't want.
Orpheus
--
"Cynicism isn't maturity. Callousness isn't strength. Pretending you
don't care so you don't have to try isn't "winning" What you do with
your life matters."
Luther Manning.
as...@hotmail.com
> as...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Subdued by the Blood
> > Cardtype: Master
> > Master: out-of-turn. Trifle.
> > Play when a vampire diablerizes a vampires of more that twice his or
> > her capacity (before the blood hunt referendum, if any). Usable on
> > your own turn. Move the victim from the ash heap to his or her owner's
> > ready region, any move all blood from the diablerist to him or her.
> > Remove the diablerist from the game.
>
> > (Cool I think!)
>
> Cornercase at best. Probably just plain wallpaper.
I disagree. Isn´t it quite good to get his Arika instead of your Nik?
(Alright, that wouldn´t happen very often, but when it does... sweet.)
Obtenebration
> Cardtype: Master
> Cost: 1 pool
> Master: unique location
> Tap to untap any card you control that is not a minion. If you do so,
> neither that card nor this location untap as normal on your next untap
> phase.
Hmm, Dreams, untap, Dreams, burns(ideally), play new Dreams.
tobiasopdenbr...@notsocoldmail.com
No can do.
Jozxyqk
> Two Wrongs
> Cardtype: Master
> Master: out-of-turn. Trifle.
> Play when a minion controlled by a Methuselah other than your predator
> is bleeding you. That minion is now bleeding his or her prey. The next
> card that would change the target of this bleed is canceled as it is
> played.
Hmm.
Two Wrongs is a card that might theoretically cancel a card played
by another Methuselah, and might theoretically cancel a card played
by the Methuselah who played it, and might never cancel a card at all.
So, if Dark Influences is in play (after canceling some other card),
and a Methuselah plays Two Wrongs, is TW instantly canceled?
as...@hotmail.com
Hardy Range
> Cardtype: Master
> Cost: 1 pool
> Master: unique location
> Tap to untap any card you control that is not a minion. If you do so,
> neither that card nor this location untap as normal on your next untap
> phase.
I use a card like Elysian Fields (that gives stealth) or a media
location (for intercept).
I then use House of Sorrow to untap the first card.
Can I use the effect of the first card again immediately - e.g., to
get +2 stealth for the same acting Lasombra with Elysian Fields, or to
get +2 intercept for a minion from the same KRCG News Radio?
Regards,
Hardy
Orpheus
> On 19 Nov, 11:57, "tobiasopdenbr...@notsocoldmail.com"
> <tobiasopdenbr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 19 Nov, 10:47, as...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 19 Nov, 10:43, "Orpheus" <orpheus...@NOSPAMfree.fr> wrote:
>>
>>>> as...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>> Subdued by the Blood
>>>>> Cardtype: Master
>>>>> Master: out-of-turn. Trifle.
>>>>> Play when a vampire diablerizes a vampires of more that twice his
>>>>> or her capacity (before the blood hunt referendum, if any).
>>>>> Usable on your own turn. Move the victim from the ash heap to his
>>>>> or her owner's ready region, any move all blood from the
>>>>> diablerist to him or her. Remove the diablerist from the game.
>>
>>>>> (Cool I think!)
>>
>>>> Cornercase at best. Probably just plain wallpaper.
>>
>>> I disagree. Isn´t it quite good to get his Arika instead of your
>>> Nik? (Alright, that wouldn´t happen very often, but when it does...
>>> sweet.)
>>
>> No can do.
>
> I have misunderstood the text?
I'm afraid so.
What it does is : the diablerized vampire goes back into his ready region
with all the diablerist's blood. And the diablerist burns (well, it's worse
than that actually as he is removed from the game).
Very, very cornercase, although devastating when it does work.
--
as...@hotmail.com
I thought the control changed! Hehe.
Merlin
I guess it's more protection against Tariq, as if Carlton wasn't
awesome enough for that. I guess this can't be contested at least...?
> > Two Wrongs
> > Cardtype: Master
> > Master: out-of-turn. Trifle.
> > Play when a minion controlled by a Methuselah other than your predator
> > is bleeding you. That minion is now bleeding his or her prey. The next
> > card that would change the target of this bleed is canceled as it is
> > played.
>
> > (Powerful I think!)
>
> Excellent for non-redirecting decks, if they don't want to become the
> table's bleed sink !! Very good. Can work also in a redirecting deck
> sometimes.
>
This card is way too useful and way too utility to be a freakin'
promo. It opens up a lot of doors. I guess I'll just have to go to a
lot of KoT release events. . .:p
-Merlin
John Flournoy
You mean 'keep your Arika instead of him keeping his Nik'.
Reread the wording - the victim stays in posession of his owner, and
the diablerist is destroyed; you don't get anybody else's vampire via
this card.
-John Flournoy
Frederick Scott
news:cfc2bec2-95bb-4bc2...@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Two Wrongs
> Cardtype: Master
> Master: out-of-turn. Trifle.
> Play when a minion controlled by a Methuselah other than your predator
> is bleeding you. That minion is now bleeding his or her prey. The next
> card that would change the target of this bleed is canceled as it is
> played.
>
> (Powerful I think!)
Powerful when you can play it, sure. But is it really worth packing?
It's dead weight when your predator has no bounce. And really not
worth much if your grandpredator isn't amping his bleeds.
Your metagame would have to be really stealth-bleedy to make this
worthwhile, IMHO.
Fred
Peter D Bakija
> Powerful when you can play it, sure. But is it really worth packing?
> It's dead weight when your predator has no bounce. And really not
> worth much if your grandpredator isn't amping his bleeds.
I dunno--I suspect that bounce is common enough that putting one or
two of these in, like, every deck ever (certainly every deck ever that
doesn't have bounce in it) isn't out of the realm of reason. Which,
ironically, makes me unclear on why it is a promo and not, like, a
common...
> Your metagame would have to be really stealth-bleedy to make this
> worthwhile, IMHO.
Seems like it would come up enough for me, although much like most
other OOT, prayer card defense masters, it would probably be just
better off as a DI (to DI the bounce). But at least this one is free
and a trifle. And very likely to be playabe in any given instance.
And 'cause it is funny, I'll further point out that having *this* card
be a (theoretically) hard to get promo (although it is certainly
possible that they will flood the market like, say, Botched Move...)
strikes me as far more problematic than, say, Heart as a hard to get
3rd Rare.
-Peter
Orpheus
In a tournie it would be worth it in most metagames if you know you can stop
a predator (or outbloat him) but not 2.
The sort of card I'd pack in a breed'n'boon deck I think. And for sure in an
Ani cept.
John Flournoy
> <as...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:cfc2bec2-95bb-4bc2...@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Two Wrongs
> > Cardtype: Master
> > Master: out-of-turn. Trifle.
> > Play when a minion controlled by a Methuselah other than your predator
> > is bleeding you. That minion is now bleeding his or her prey. The next
> > card that would change the target of this bleed is canceled as it is
> > played.
>
> > (Powerful I think!)
>
> Powerful when you can play it, sure. But is it really worth packing?
> It's dead weight when your predator has no bounce. And really not
> worth much if your grandpredator isn't amping his bleeds.
Or if your grandprey is playing either My Enemy's Enemy or Determine,
technically.
> Your metagame would have to be really stealth-bleedy to make this
> worthwhile, IMHO.
I think the likelihood of this card being playable is certainly worth
putting one copy of it into a deck - if your prey is clearly playing
no bounce, discard it. It's almost certainly a bad idea to put a -
bunch- of these into a single deck, but sticking one into most decks
isn't a terrible idea, IMO.
> Fred
-John Flournoy
brandons...@yahoo.com
thinking of decks that they fit into or enable.
Salem
think someone got overly snippy at some point...]
Peter D Bakija wrote:
> On Nov 19, 9:34 am, "Frederick Scott" <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> wrote:
>> Powerful when you can play it, sure. But is it really worth packing?
>> It's dead weight when your predator has no bounce. And really not
>> worth much if your grandpredator isn't amping his bleeds.
>
> I dunno--I suspect that bounce is common enough that putting one or
> two of these in, like, every deck ever (certainly every deck ever that
> doesn't have bounce in it) isn't out of the realm of reason. Which,
> ironically, makes me unclear on why it is a promo and not, like, a
> common...
I'm not sure if I would, actually. DI1 would be a better choice most
times, just due to it's utility. Unless DI2 is showing up a lot...
at worst, these cards that do stuff but screw other cards that do the
same thing make metagaming more challenging! :)
> And 'cause it is funny, I'll further point out that having *this* card
> be a (theoretically) hard to get promo (although it is certainly
> possible that they will flood the market like, say, Botched Move...)
> strikes me as far more problematic than, say, Heart as a hard to get
> 3rd Rare.
Does anyone know if these are promo-only-ever cards, or if they will
pass into a set or other means of distribution in the future?
--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)
"In *my* Assamite deck, this would pwn you in teh FAEC, so shut up."
"Thats only cos u've never sene mi Gionavvi PUNCHnMUCNH u asshat."
- James Coupe
Salem
> On Nov 19, 8:34 am, "Frederick Scott" <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> wrote:
>> <as...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:cfc2bec2-95bb-4bc2...@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > Two Wrongs
> I think the likelihood of this card being playable is certainly worth
> putting one copy of it into a deck - if your prey is clearly playing
> no bounce, discard it.
you mean predator, right?
Peter D Bakija
wrote:
> I'm not sure if I would, actually. DI1 would be a better choice most
> times, just due to it's utility. Unless DI2 is showing up a lot...
Yeah, that is certainly an issue. But as it is free and a trifle, and
you get bleeds bounced into you a lot most of the time (I mean, yeah,
ok, I can't speak for all play environments, but it strikes me as
reasonable to say that you get a bleed bounced into at some point you
most games), a card that saves you from that seems very playable. I
mean, like, I wouldn't put 10 in a deck or anything, but having 1 or 2
in many decks isn't at all out of the realm of reasonable in my thinking.
> Does anyone know if these are promo-only-ever cards, or if they will
> pass into a set or other means of distribution in the future?
Historically speaking, most promos are left as promos, and eventually
fall out of circulation. Most promos, however, get pretty wide
circulation after not to long, so it isn't that hard to get them.
Usually.
Peter D Bakija
pd...@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html
"It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?"
-Gaff
headle...@gmail.com
I think the key words on this card are "Usable on your own turn."
So it's about as cornercase as a Soul Gem.
Peter D Bakija
<acec34e2-04d2-4358...@d23g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
headle...@gmail.com wrote:
> I think the key words on this card are "Usable on your own turn."
>
> So it's about as cornercase as a Soul Gem.
Well, kind of?
Soul Gem works when *you* make it work (i.e. you burn your own guy by
Force of Willing or something). Subdued by Blood works when your
*opponent* deablerizes you. So if someone blocks you and deablerizes
you, that tou can play Subdued by Blood on your turn is handy, but you
still need someone to be deablerizing you. Which is something you have
zero control over, and doesn't happen frequently enough, generally
speaking, to warrant including specific anti-Diablere tech in your deck
most of the time (unless, say, you are playing, like, some sort of Force
of Will/Regeneration/Minion Tap tech, where Subdued by Blood might be
pure gold, but most of the time, not so much).
witness1
> In article
> <acec34e2-04d2-4358-b489-9af36b15a...@d23g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
>
> headlessr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I think the key words on this card are "Usable on your own turn."
>
> > So it's about as cornercase as a Soul Gem.
>
> Well, kind of?
>
> Soul Gem works when *you* make it work (i.e. you burn your own guy by
> Force of Willing or something).
You can diablerize your own vampires, Pete.
-witness1
John Flournoy
> On Nov 19, 9:50 am, as...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > I have not seen any discussion about the new promos here... What do
> > you think?
>
> > House of Sorrow
> > Cardtype: Master
> > Cost: 1 pool
> > Master: unique location
> > Tap to untap any card you control that is not a minion. If you do so,
> > neither that card nor this location untap as normal on your next untap
> > phase.
>
> Seems very strong when used correctly. Could make for incredible
> lunges, for example with Enkil Cog.
Yeah, definitely nasty possibilities there.
Also, to shift over from a previous thread, it would also work very
well with Gather.
-John Flournoy
Chris Berger
> In article
> <acec34e2-04d2-4358-b489-9af36b15a...@d23g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > I think the key words on this card are "Usable on your own turn."
>
> > So it's about as cornercase as a Soul Gem.
>
> Well, kind of?
>
> Soul Gem works when *you* make it work (i.e. you burn your own guy by
> Force of Willing or something). Subdued by Blood works when your
> *opponent* deablerizes you. So if someone blocks you and deablerizes
> you, that tou can play Subdued by Blood on your turn is handy, but you
> still need someone to be deablerizing you. Which is something you have
> zero control over, and doesn't happen frequently enough, generally
>
own minion as a roundabout way of rescuing... Smudge diablerizes your
empty Enkidu, Enkidu comes back to controlled region with 1 blood,
untapped, Smudge burns. Hardly seems worth it though...
headle...@gmail.com
> In article
> <acec34e2-04d2-4358-b489-9af36b15a...@d23g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > I think the key words on this card are "Usable on your own turn."
>
> > So it's about as cornercase as a Soul Gem.
>
> Well, kind of?
>
> Soul Gem works when *you* make it work (i.e. you burn your own guy by
> Force of Willing or something). Subdued by Blood works when your
> *opponent* deablerizes you. So if someone blocks you and deablerizes
> you, that tou can play Subdued by Blood on your turn is handy, but you
> still need someone to be deablerizing you. Which is something you have
> zero control over, and doesn't happen frequently enough, generally
> speaking, to warrant including specific anti-Diablere tech in your deck
> most of the time (unless, say, you are playing, like, some sort of Force
> of Will/Regeneration/Minion Tap tech, where Subdued by Blood might be
> pure gold, but most of the time, not so much).
>
> Peter D Bakija
>
> "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?"
> -Gaff
You can diablerize your own big vampire with a 1 or 2 cap weenie. Play
Subdued by the Blood, they return from the ash heap, and have no
memory of bleeding, voting etc. It can only be done once a turn, but
it can be a quick alternative to setting up the Soul Gem combo.
Peter D Bakija
<a6acd95c-e89b-4242...@g38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
headle...@gmail.com wrote:
> You can diablerize your own big vampire with a 1 or 2 cap weenie. Play
> Subdued by the Blood, they return from the ash heap, and have no
> memory of bleeding, voting etc. It can only be done once a turn, but
> it can be a quick alternative to setting up the Soul Gem combo.
Yeah, I suppose. But seems wildly convoluted, costs you a minion, and
usually won't be much more useful than, say, a Freak Drive...
Peter D Bakija
pd...@lightlink.com
Peter D Bakija
<fcb86ac8-4860-46a0...@j32g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
Yes, you can. But you still lose a minion. And to get more blood on your
guy, you need a bigger minion, making the trade more costly. Seems
wildly, wildly in efficient.
witness1
>
> witness1 <jwnewqu...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > You can diablerize your own vampires, Pete.
>
> Yes, you can. But you still lose a minion. And to get more blood on your
> guy, you need a bigger minion, making the trade more costly. Seems
> wildly, wildly in efficient.
I think the point is that you can do it in combination with a Soul
Gem.
-witness1
chr...@comcen.com.au
> House of Sorrow
> Cardtype: Master
> Cost: 1 pool
> Master: unique location
> Tap to untap any card you control that is not a minion. If you do so,
> neither that card nor this location untap as normal on your next untap
> phase.
What is the effect with Coven? If there are two players left and you
have Coven and you tap House of Sorrow to use Coven twice will Coven
untap on your next untap phase? I think yes because the loss of
control at the end of your turn removes any lingering effects.
Chris.
Peter D Bakija
<0fdfcbe2-d614-437d...@v4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
witness1 <jwnew...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> I think the point is that you can do it in combination with a Soul
> Gem.
Hmm. Yeah, I suppose. But that seems like even *more* work. But ok.
Shockwave
Sadly, unlike a Soul Gem, it isn't a new copy of the Vampire, it's the
same Arika / Fattie, so NRA prevents some truly awful ideas forming in
my brain.
My thought (until I read it again and noted this) was a Week of
Nightmares style weebie swarm with Force of Will, 2nd Trad / Embrace /
Creation Rites & Subdued. Build swarm for half the game, Force of
Will, Diablerise with Progeny, Subdued by the Blood Force of Will,
Diablerise with Progeny....
witness1
> Sadly, unlike a Soul Gem, it isn't a new copy of the Vampire, it's the
> same Arika / Fattie, so NRA prevents some truly awful ideas forming in
> my brain.
A trip to the ash heap removes all memory of a vampire's prior status.
-witness1
bwross
Oh, yeah... it's great when you don't care about the fact that the
target card won't untap as normal. Like say, with Bleeding the Vine.
Brent Ross
librarian
> In article
> <fcb86ac8-4860-46a0...@j32g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
> witness1 <jwnew...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> You can diablerize your own vampires, Pete.
>
> Yes, you can. But you still lose a minion. And to get more blood on your
> guy, you need a bigger minion, making the trade more costly. Seems
> wildly, wildly in efficient.
Temptation.
best -
chris
--
Super Fun Cards
www.superfuncards.com *NEW Website!*
auct...@superfuncards.com
John Flournoy
> >> > Two Wrongs
> > I think the likelihood of this card being playable is certainly worth
> > putting one copy of it into a deck - if your prey is clearly playing
> > no bounce, discard it.
>
> you mean predator, right?
Yep. (oops.)
> --
> salem
-John Flournoy
JH
Yeah, reading the card text on the House of Sorrow the does not untap
as normal affects only you, not the new controller of the Coven. So
you can get double mileage out of it, but you can't prevent others
from using it.
Shockwave
Is this correct? I'd like to know for definite, because that has
some.... 'comedy' possibilities.
James Coupe
s.com>, Shockwave <d_know...@hotmail.com> writes:
>On 20 Nov, 00:55, witness1 <jwnewqu...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> A trip to the ash heap removes all memory of a vampire's prior status.
>
>some.... 'comedy' possibilities.
Trips through the ash heap wipe a minion's memory, yes.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/2432661ebf5e16f8
And various other threads.
Typically, most cards says something like "Play when a minion would be
burned... Move them to your controlled region *instead*." This one
appears to pop via the ash-heap and get retrieved, however, so the usual
rules on ash-heap forgetfulness should apply.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
LSJ
> In message <d4c53cc4-0595-4cc5...@a12g2000yqm.googlegroup
> s.com>, Shockwave <d_know...@hotmail.com> writes:
>> On 20 Nov, 00:55, witness1 <jwnewqu...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>> A trip to the ash heap removes all memory of a vampire's prior status.
>> Is this correct? I'd like to know for definite, because that has
>> some.... 'comedy' possibilities.
>
> Trips through the ash heap wipe a minion's memory, yes.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/2432661ebf5e16f8
>
> And various other threads.
>
> Typically, most cards says something like "Play when a minion would be
> burned... Move them to your controlled region *instead*." This one
> appears to pop via the ash-heap and get retrieved, however, so the usual
> rules on ash-heap forgetfulness should apply.
Right. Also, any blood, other counters, and cards on the diablerized vampire are
lost ("forgotten") as well when you use Subdued by the Blood to retrieve the
victim from the ash heap.
jcrossn...@gmail.com
> > What is the effect with Coven? If there are two players left and you
> > have Coven and you tap House of Sorrow to use Coven twice will Coven
> > untap on your next untap phase? I think yes because the loss of
> > control at the end of your turn removes any lingering effects.
>
> > Chris.
and there was an answer:
> Yeah, reading the card text on the House of Sorrow the does not untap
> as normal affects only you, not the new controller of the Coven. So
> you can get double mileage out of it, but you can't prevent others
> from using it.
You're missing the question. If there are only 2 players left in the
game, you always have Coven on your own turn, meaning that if at any
point you untap it with House of Sorrows, you will control it in your
next untap phase. In this case, it does not untap. Control changes do
not erase memory of lingering effects. House of Sorrow triggers in
your next untap phase, telling a specific card not to untap. If you
don't control that card at the time, the effect fizzles, but if you do
then it does not matter if someone else controlled it in the interim.
Such issues have existed with vampires and similar lingering effects
for quite some time, and work exactly the same way.
Cantila
> [what the hell are we talking about? oh yeah! the card Two Wrongs.... i
> think someone got overly snippy at some point...]
>
> times, just due to it's utility. Unless DI2 is showing up a lot...
I would say it's a _really_ good card. People seem to have missed out
that it cancels possibly *two* redirecting cards, not jsut one (which
DI would). Against a heavy bounce deck that's pure gold. It also stops
nasty Kindred Spirits bleeds across the table against you as an added
bonus (good for Tupdog decks for example and Malkavians tend to really
want them out of the table).
Cantila
Nullifies the effect of possibly two redirecting cards it should
say...as the first one isn't a cancel effect...but well you get the
idea.
Chris Berger
But extremely, highly unlikely to cancel a second redirecting card.
More like it keeps him from playing the second one (more or less),
though if he has it in hand, he's free to use it on the next bleed
action.