Archon Investigation Vs declining to block question (LSJ)
Stone
confirmation here.
A vampire bleeds for 4. Prey plays Archon Investigation. AI is cancelled via
Sudden Reversal.
Can the target of the bleed still try to block, or has the play of AI
implied she declined it ?
card text included for reference.
Stone
Name: Archon Investigation
[VTES:U, CE:U, KMW:PG, Third:U]
Cardtype: Master
Cost: 3 pool
Master: out-of-turn.
Only usable when a minion is attempting to bleed you for more than 3. The
action is not successful. Burn the acting minion.
Artist: Peter Bergting; Lawrence Snelly
Bram Vink
There's basically two ways to go. Official confirmation will have to
see to this, I guess.
Common sense tells us: Playing an AI does not mean in any way you
decline to block.
We've been told before: You're implicitly declining to block by
attempting to close the blocking window. Wether that attempt is
successful or not, the declination is final.
Cheers
B
LSJ
Hmm. A bit hazy there.
The effect of AI is to burn the acting minion. The bit about the action not
being successful could therefore be seen to be just reminder text.
If that were true, then playing AI doesn't close the blocking window. That is,
there could be an effect like Reform Body that was an action modifier and left
the vampire ready rather than in torpor which could allow the bleed to continue
through an AI.
But in realty (hypothetically, that is), card text on AI would lead to the
result that the action is indeed ended, even though the acting minion has
managed to survive the burn effect of AI.
So it must be the case that AI is played only after the blocking window is
closed (like Deflection), since attempting to end the action (without blocking)
implies that you have decided not to block.
Reyda !
LSJ a écrit :
> Stone wrote:
> > I've heard this has come up on some forum, but would like an official
> > confirmation here.
> > A vampire bleeds for 4. Prey plays Archon Investigation. AI is cancelled via
> > Sudden Reversal.
> > Can the target of the bleed still try to block, or has the play of AI
> > implied she declined it ?
> > card text included for reference.
> > Stone
> >
> > Name: Archon Investigation
> > [VTES:U, CE:U, KMW:PG, Third:U]
> > Cardtype: Master
> > Cost: 3 pool
> > Master: out-of-turn.
> > Only usable when a minion is attempting to bleed you for more than 3. The
> > action is not successful. Burn the acting minion.
>
> Hmm. A bit hazy there.
>
> The effect of AI is to burn the acting minion. The bit about the action not
> being successful could therefore be seen to be just reminder text.
it may simply be a text clarifying the fact that the vampire is burned
right away. No chances to play modifiers, tap masters or stuff like
that...
> If that were true, then playing AI doesn't close the blocking window. That is,
> there could be an effect like Reform Body that was an action modifier and left
> the vampire ready rather than in torpor which could allow the bleed to continue
> through an AI.
why imply that "there could be an effect" where in fact there is no
card with such effect ?
> But in realty (hypothetically, that is), card text on AI would lead to the
> result that the action is indeed ended, even though the acting minion has
> managed to survive the burn effect of AI.
Yes, the card text of AI says "the action is not succesful".
But if this card is suddened, then its card text is ignored
completely.
Why can't we then resume with the block stuff ?
> So it must be the case that AI is played only after the blocking window is
> closed (like Deflection), since attempting to end the action (without blocking)
> implies that you have decided not to block.
It has never been the case, and i'm pretty sure it's never been played
that way by any person on the ng : why induce change on such critical
stuff ?
Why remove the only weapon against big bleeds for clans with little
intercept / no acess to deflections ?
And, oh why make Wash so powerful ? After the deflection case last
month, it's just some more trouble :/
Joshua Duffin
Doesn't this contradict your rulings on the timing of Archon
Investigation going back as far as 1998? See:
groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/a9886358658e940c
which puts the play of Archon Investigation in the same window as the
declaration of block attempts. I'm not sure why it would need changing
now. Plus, forcing people to close the blocking window before playing
AI seems like a pretty unnecessary reduction in the strength of Archon
Investigation.
Josh
several weeks (if not years) out of the loop
LSJ
Not that I can tell.
> groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/a9886358658e940c
>
> which puts the play of Archon Investigation in the same window as the
> declaration of block attempts.
No. It puts it in the "before resolution" window. Actually, card text puts it
there -- the post cited simply confirms that.
> I'm not sure why it would need changing
> now. Plus, forcing people to close the blocking window before playing
> AI seems like a pretty unnecessary reduction in the strength of Archon
> Investigation.
If it were a reduction, perhaps. Every change can be labeled "pretty
unnecessary", even R2I and so forth. Some of the changes that aren't actually
necessary were/are still good ideas.