Rules Questions for LSJ
echia...@yahoo.com
#1. When Sonja Blue blocks as an ally, her card text does not specify
what type of ally she is. So since she is not blocking as a mortal or
animal ally, then she's still technically a "monster" ally (for the
purpose of Imbued cards). Right?
#2. Bond states: "Move an incapacitated imbued to his or her
controller's ready region. That imbued gains a life (not to exceed his
or her starting amount)." Rules state: "Note that an imbued gains a
life (not to exceed his starting life) if he leaves the incapacitated
region by any other effect, as well." Is the card text in Bond just
reminder text, or does an Imbued get an additional life from the Bond
(in addition to what she normally gets for leaving the incapacitated
region)? (i.e. Imbued has no life and Bond is played. Does she come
back with 1 or 2 life?).
#3. Zelios cannot pay the partial cost of a location, right? (I have 3
pool and Zelios has 2 blood. I can't play Club Zombie, paying 2 pool
and 2 blood from Zelios). Card text does not seem to allow it, but
just doublechecking.
#4. The Erciyes Fragment can foil your prey's attempt to continue an
action (e.g. Form of Mist), right? So my prey plays an action card and
it is blocked (so the card goes to the ash heap). During combat, I can
tap the Erciyes Fragment to remove the action card from his ash heap,
preventing him from continuing the action. This issue was alluded to
in one of the threads involving Massassi's Honor but I want to make
sure.
#5. A --> B --> C
Methuselah A controls Charriger the Axe. Methuseleh B has Kherebutu.
During Methuselah C's turn, Kherebutu burns. Is he shuffled into his
library (with no soul counter added) or is he removed from the game
(adding a soul counter)? Since C is the acting player, I'm guessing he
would get to decide whether A's Charriger effect or B's Kherebutu
effect works first?
#6. White Nights Massacre states: "During your next discard phase, you
must burn this card, and you may either burn a vampire in torpor or,
by tapping a ready werewolf ally you control or discarding a White
Nights Massacre from your hand, burn all vampires in torpor." Does the
"you may either" mean you can choose A or B or neither? Or does it
mean you are forced to choose either A or B (you can't choose
neither)?
#7. In the last printing of Terror Frenzy (Legacies of Blood), card
text was ""Opposing vampire burns an additional blood when playing
combat cards this combat." Currently online text shows "<Combat cards
cost the opposing vampire> an additional blood this combat." Does this
affect the previous ruling stating that even with Dragos or Path
cards, Terror Frenzy still requires burning blood?
#8. In combat, Methuselah A (acting) has his minion strike with hands
(or a gun). Methuselah B strikes with the Ivory Bow. Methuselah A then
attempts to play Claws of the Dead or Dragon's Breath Rounds. Can
Methuselah B respond with a Rotschreck (they still haven't reached
strike resolution) or is it too late?
#9. Some cards/effects give stealth only if the action is directed or
undirected (Creepshow Casino, Mirror's Visage, etc.) Do these effects
check the condition only once or are they constantly checking? The
main reason I'm asking is that if the directedness of an action
changes during the action, do these effects recheck the state? For
example:
A. I perform an undirected action, tapping Creepshow Casino for +1
stealth. During the action, it becomes a directed action (probably due
to a change in control). Does the Creepshow stealth suddenly disappear
(since it is now directed) or does it only check when first used?
B. Similarly, I perform a directed action and play Mirror's Visage
at superior for +1 stealth. If the action later becomes undirected, do
I suddenly get an additional +1 stealth (due to Mirror's Visage which
was previously played)?
Thanks!
Frederick Scott
<echia...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c194a95f-6200-4e1d...@k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> #4. The Erciyes Fragment can foil your prey's attempt to continue an
> action (e.g. Form of Mist), right? So my prey plays an action card and
> it is blocked (so the card goes to the ash heap). During combat, I can
> tap the Erciyes Fragment to remove the action card from his ash heap,
> preventing him from continuing the action. This issue was alluded to
> in one of the threads involving Massassi's Honor but I want to make
> sure.
Although I wouldn't know if there's any hinky angles that might make
the answer come out different than I'd expect, I can at least point
you to the ruling on this (the link is up near the top of the WW
"rulings page", so it's easy to find):
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/2d8a664119fb45a3
One would think your take on it is perfect.
Fred
Wilsoros
text which shuffles you back to the library doesn't happen since you
are RFG instead of being burned.
Not RFG instead of going to the ash heap.
so would he cause Sac Lamb to fail?
Klaital
wrote:
1# I would believe that yes she is still considered a monster.
2# I would think they get an extra from bond.
3# Looks like your right about this.
4# No idea about this one.
5# Chariggers card text seems to indicate that they are removed from
the game instead of being burned so I would say that they aren't
shuffled back.
6# I think you need to choose either or, although not sure what
happens if there are no vampires in torpor and you choose the burn a
vampire in torpor.
7# Main difference in those two wordings is that 'cost additional
blood' can't be played if you don't have the blood to spend, while
'burns additional blood' can.
8# Yes you can play rotschreck any time before strike resolution.
9# I can't think of any effect that would change an action from
undirected to directed, but creepshow casino only checks when you use
it (you can only use it on undirected), Mirror's Visage probably also
checks it only when its played, but not sure of that.
JH
wrote:
> Time for some fun!
>
> #1. When Sonja Blue blocks as an ally, her card text does not specify
> what type of ally she is. So since she is not blocking as a mortal or
> animal ally, then she's still technically a "monster" ally (for the
> purpose of Imbued cards). Right?
She's a monster even as an ally, because she's not a mortal or an
animal.
> #2. Bond states: "Move an incapacitated imbued to his or her
> controller's ready region. That imbued gains a life (not to exceed his
> or her starting amount)." Rules state: "Note that an imbued gains a
> life (not to exceed his starting life) if he leaves the incapacitated
> region by any other effect, as well." Is the card text in Bond just
> reminder text, or does an Imbued get an additional life from the Bond
> (in addition to what she normally gets for leaving the incapacitated
> region)? (i.e. Imbued has no life and Bond is played. Does she come
> back with 1 or 2 life?).
Gains an additional life (come back with 2 life more).
> #3. Zelios cannot pay the partial cost of a location, right? (I have 3
> pool and Zelios has 2 blood. I can't play Club Zombie, paying 2 pool
> and 2 blood from Zelios). Card text does not seem to allow it, but
> just doublechecking.
Correct.
> #4. The Erciyes Fragment can foil your prey's attempt to continue an
> action (e.g. Form of Mist), right? So my prey plays an action card and
> it is blocked (so the card goes to the ash heap). During combat, I can
> tap the Erciyes Fragment to remove the action card from his ash heap,
> preventing him from continuing the action. This issue was alluded to
> in one of the threads involving Massassi's Honor but I want to make
> sure.
>
> #5. A --> B --> C
>
> Methuselah A controls Charriger the Axe. Methuseleh B has Kherebutu.
> During Methuselah C's turn, Kherebutu burns. Is he shuffled into his
> library (with no soul counter added) or is he removed from the game
> (adding a soul counter)? Since C is the acting player, I'm guessing he
> would get to decide whether A's Charriger effect or B's Kherebutu
> effect works first?
Both effects fire regardless (assuming Charigger's controller makes
the choice). Kherebutu tries to shuffle himself into library as he is
burned, but Charigger says he is removed instead. So Kherebutu goes
out of the game.
> #6. White Nights Massacre states: "During your next discard phase, you
> must burn this card, and you may either burn a vampire in torpor or,
> by tapping a ready werewolf ally you control or discarding a White
> Nights Massacre from your hand, burn all vampires in torpor." Does the
> "you may either" mean you can choose A or B or neither? Or does it
> mean you are forced to choose either A or B (you can't choose
> neither)?
Keyword *may*. You don't have to harm any vampires in torpor if you
don't want to.
> #7. In the last printing of Terror Frenzy (Legacies of Blood), card
> text was ""Opposing vampire burns an additional blood when playing
> combat cards this combat." Currently online text shows "<Combat cards
> cost the opposing vampire> an additional blood this combat." Does this
> affect the previous ruling stating that even with Dragos or Path
> cards, Terror Frenzy still requires burning blood?
If the online text is accurate, then Dragos and Path would affect the
increased cost. Don't have a Legacies of Blood version at hand, so
can't double check that, but if it's really "burns an additional
blood" then Dragos and Path won't affect the cost, but you can play
free combat cards even if you have 0 blood.
> #8. In combat, Methuselah A (acting) has his minion strike with hands
> (or a gun). Methuselah B strikes with the Ivory Bow. Methuselah A then
> attempts to play Claws of the Dead or Dragon's Breath Rounds. Can
> Methuselah B respond with a Rotschreck (they still haven't reached
> strike resolution) or is it too late?
It's not too late to play Rötschreck.
> #9. Some cards/effects give stealth only if the action is directed or
> undirected (Creepshow Casino, Mirror's Visage, etc.) Do these effects
> check the condition only once or are they constantly checking? The
> main reason I'm asking is that if the directedness of an action
> changes during the action, do these effects recheck the state? For
> example:
> A. I perform an undirected action, tapping Creepshow Casino for +1
> stealth. During the action, it becomes a directed action (probably due
> to a change in control). Does the Creepshow stealth suddenly disappear
> (since it is now directed) or does it only check when first used?
> B. Similarly, I perform a directed action and play Mirror's Visage
> at superior for +1 stealth. If the action later becomes undirected, do
> I suddenly get an additional +1 stealth (due to Mirror's Visage which
> was previously played)?
Of Mirror's Visage I'm not certain but would say stays at +2 stealth.
Creepshow Casino's stealth would stay.
> Thanks!
No problem.
echia...@yahoo.com
> 5# Chariggers card text seems to indicate that they are removed from
> the game instead of being burned so I would say that they aren't
> shuffled back.
Yeah I think you're right. It does look like Charriger's effect has
precedence (since it takes place instead). However, this does mean
that Charrigger largely negates your prey's pool loss for Tension in
the Ranks (he still loses pool for torpored vampires, but his minions
never get burned), right?
On Nov 17, 12:29 pm, JH <jhatt...@tenerdo.org> wrote:
> If the online text is accurate, then Dragos and Path would affect the
> increased cost. Don't have a Legacies of Blood version at hand, so
> can't double check that, but if it's really "burns an additional
> blood" then Dragos and Path won't affect the cost, but you can play
> free combat cards even if you have 0 blood.
Well, even with the original Sabbat wording: ""Opposing minion pays an
additional blood when playing combat cards during this combat." it was
still ruled that Dragos would have to burn a blood. So even if the
wording was changed (to something closer to the original), it still
seems like the older ruling would still hold unless explicitly
overturned.
> #9. Some cards/effects give stealth only if the action is directed or
> undirected (Creepshow Casino, Mirror's Visage, etc.) Do these effects
> check the condition only once or are they constantly checking? The
> main reason I'm asking is that if the directedness of an action
> changes during the action, do these effects recheck the state? For
> example:
> A. I perform an undirected action, tapping Creepshow Casino for +1
> stealth. During the action, it becomes a directed action (probably due
> to a change in control). Does the Creepshow stealth suddenly disappear
> (since it is now directed) or does it only check when first used?
> B. Similarly, I perform a directed action and play Mirror's Visage
> at superior for +1 stealth. If the action later becomes undirected, do
> I suddenly get an additional +1 stealth (due to Mirror's Visage which
> was previously played)?
There seems to be some confusion regarding an action changing its
directedness, so let me explain:
A. During your minion phase, you take a directed action at a vampire
but during the action you burn Temptation counters to take control of
that vampire (since you now control the target, the action becomes
undirected).
B. Similarly, during your prey's turn, you take an undirected action
(Enkil Cog / Madness Network) targeting one of your own vampires but
then your prey takes control of the target with Temptation (now the
action is directed).
C. There may also be situations where you take an undirected action
with multiple targets, but during the action one or more of the
targets are no longer valid (i.e. leave play), so the only remaining
target is controlled by another player (making the action directed).
Eliseu Angelo
wrote:
Hummm....
I think that temptation should be rulled. Not be used in the middle of
any action... it disrupts the game...
Juggernaut1981
> with multiple targets, but during the action one or more of the
> targets are no longer valid (i.e. leave play), so the only remaining
> target is controlled by another player (making the action directed).
This concept has been changed generally. Any action that targets
multiple targets is treated as a (D) action against the controllers of
each of the targets. So any Methuselah with a target may react as if
it was a (D) action against them.
LSJ
> On Nov 17, 6:41 am, "echiang...@yahoo.com" <echiang...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> #1. When Sonja Blue blocks as an ally, her card text does not specify
>> what type of ally she is. So since she is not blocking as a mortal or
>> animal ally, then she's still technically a "monster" ally (for the
>> purpose of Imbued cards). Right?
>
> She's a monster even as an ally, because she's not a mortal or an
> animal.
She's still technically a vampire (and a monster). She's just blocking as an
ally (a monster ally, at that, yes, since it doesn't say mortal ally or animal
ally, right).
>> #2. Bond states: "Move an incapacitated imbued to his or her
>> controller's ready region. That imbued gains a life (not to exceed his
>> or her starting amount)." Rules state: "Note that an imbued gains a
>> life (not to exceed his starting life) if he leaves the incapacitated
>> region by any other effect, as well." Is the card text in Bond just
>> reminder text, or does an Imbued get an additional life from the Bond
>> (in addition to what she normally gets for leaving the incapacitated
>> region)? (i.e. Imbued has no life and Bond is played. Does she come
>> back with 1 or 2 life?).
>
> Gains an additional life (come back with 2 life more).
Reminder text. (Comes back with the 1 life more specified).
>> #3. Zelios cannot pay the partial cost of a location, right? (I have 3
>> pool and Zelios has 2 blood. I can't play Club Zombie, paying 2 pool
>> and 2 blood from Zelios). Card text does not seem to allow it, but
>> just doublechecking.
>
> Correct.
Right.
>> #4. The Erciyes Fragment can foil your prey's attempt to continue an
>> action (e.g. Form of Mist), right? So my prey plays an action card and
>> it is blocked (so the card goes to the ash heap). During combat, I can
>> tap the Erciyes Fragment to remove the action card from his ash heap,
>> preventing him from continuing the action. This issue was alluded to
>> in one of the threads involving Massassi's Honor but I want to make
>> sure.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/173210c5ed106356
>> #5. A --> B --> C
>>
>> Methuselah A controls Charriger the Axe. Methuseleh B has Kherebutu.
>> During Methuselah C's turn, Kherebutu burns. Is he shuffled into his
>> library (with no soul counter added) or is he removed from the game
>> (adding a soul counter)? Since C is the acting player, I'm guessing he
>> would get to decide whether A's Charriger effect or B's Kherebutu
>> effect works first?
>
> Both effects fire regardless (assuming Charigger's controller makes
> the choice). Kherebutu tries to shuffle himself into library as he is
> burned, but Charigger says he is removed instead. So Kherebutu goes
> out of the game.
Correct.
>> #6. White Nights Massacre states: "During your next discard phase, you
>> must burn this card, and you may either burn a vampire in torpor or,
>> by tapping a ready werewolf ally you control or discarding a White
>> Nights Massacre from your hand, burn all vampires in torpor." Does the
>> "you may either" mean you can choose A or B or neither? Or does it
>> mean you are forced to choose either A or B (you can't choose
>> neither)?
>
> Keyword *may*. You don't have to harm any vampires in torpor if you
> don't want to.
Correct.
>> #7. In the last printing of Terror Frenzy (Legacies of Blood), card
>> text was ""Opposing vampire burns an additional blood when playing
>> combat cards this combat." Currently online text shows "<Combat cards
>> cost the opposing vampire> an additional blood this combat." Does this
>> affect the previous ruling stating that even with Dragos or Path
>> cards, Terror Frenzy still requires burning blood?
>
> If the online text is accurate, then Dragos and Path would affect the
> increased cost. Don't have a Legacies of Blood version at hand, so
> can't double check that, but if it's really "burns an additional
> blood" then Dragos and Path won't affect the cost, but you can play
> free combat cards even if you have 0 blood.
It's cost.
>> #8. In combat, Methuselah A (acting) has his minion strike with hands
>> (or a gun). Methuselah B strikes with the Ivory Bow. Methuselah A then
>> attempts to play Claws of the Dead or Dragon's Breath Rounds. Can
>> Methuselah B respond with a Rotschreck (they still haven't reached
>> strike resolution) or is it too late?
>
> It's not too late to play R�tschreck.
Correct.
>> #9. Some cards/effects give stealth only if the action is directed or
>> undirected (Creepshow Casino, Mirror's Visage, etc.) Do these effects
>> check the condition only once or are they constantly checking? The
>> main reason I'm asking is that if the directedness of an action
>> changes during the action, do these effects recheck the state? For
>> example:
>> A. I perform an undirected action, tapping Creepshow Casino for +1
>> stealth. During the action, it becomes a directed action (probably due
>> to a change in control). Does the Creepshow stealth suddenly disappear
>> (since it is now directed) or does it only check when first used?
>> B. Similarly, I perform a directed action and play Mirror's Visage
>> at superior for +1 stealth. If the action later becomes undirected, do
>> I suddenly get an additional +1 stealth (due to Mirror's Visage which
>> was previously played)?
>
> Of Mirror's Visage I'm not certain but would say stays at +2 stealth.
> Creepshow Casino's stealth would stay.
Creepshow stays (card text).
Mirror's Visage mirrors Foreshadowing's text (and result): it continuously checks.
Petri Wessman
> >> #4. The Erciyes Fragment can foil your prey's attempt to continue an
> >> action (e.g. Form of Mist), right? So my prey plays an action card and
> >> it is blocked (so the card goes to the ash heap). During combat, I can
> >> tap the Erciyes Fragment to remove the action card from his ash heap,
> >> preventing him from continuing the action. This issue was alluded to
> >> in one of the threads involving Massassi's Honor but I want to make
> >> sure.
>
Followup question on this one: if in the above scenario the prey had a
second (older) copy of the action card in question already in their
ash heap, would that let them continue the action? Or does action
continuation need & check for the specific copy of the action card?
LSJ
The specific card.