Art design of VTES
x5m...@gmx.de
disaster" (called Players Guide), where we can see all the wonderful
changes VTES has gone through, i have some wishes to the art designers
of VTES for the next expansions:
- We really need a new typo for the card names. It is a good tradition
to change it every second edition. Maybe now we could use Garamond
italic?
- After the Baali and other clans that were introduced with a new
background in BLs it is now time to change some new introduced
backgrounds of CE. Maybe we could start with the Brujah. They now have
all vampires reprinted with the background from CE, so there is really
some diversion needed.
- The typo of the card text needs to get smaller, especially by cards
that have only one line of text. We are used to cards like Mythic Form,
but we really need card texts like "+1 intercept" written so small,
that they are not longer readable.
- The place of the discipline symbols could be more varied. It is
really not nice to have some cards on the hand, and all symbols are at
the same heigth. And the size of the discipline symbols has to get
smaller. We all loved the argument in CE that we needed bigger symbols
after WW had made them smaller beginning in SWs.
- Maybe the whole design of the cards can be changed. We have now four
different designs: The Jyhad design (1 edition: Jyhad), the VTES design
(7 editions: VTES, AH, DS, Sabbat, SW, FN, BL), the CE design (1
edition: CE) and the revised CE design (=title going to the left; 4
editions: Anarchs, BH, Gehenna, KMW, LoB). So it really is time for the
next radical change of the card look.
Fabio Ciccone
Because if you aren't, I must say, I couldn't disagree more with every
single word you wrote. Nothing personal.
Cheers
Fabio Ciccone
Wes
<x5m...@gmx.de> wrote
>
<snip great ideas>
I am in favour of having new cards having completely unpronouncable names
such as the recent Mayapatrisnaa, Huitzoptooey, Rastacouerre etc.
Soon, I will be able to achieve my objective of timing out a game simply by
announcing an action featuring all the hardest to pronounce cards and
repeating the words until I get them all right, which, I estimate, should
take at least two hours.
Then, I will sell my cards and retire from this great game.
Cheers,
WES
Johannes Walch
Don´t forget to add:
- Make a lot of reprints as rares, preferrably mostly useless cards.
Draft tournaments are so much more interesting when you have to figure
out a way to play BL disciplines with you vampires.
- Change rarities on reprints frequently to keep collectors busy and the
market in nice motion. Probably War Ghoul could be a common for the next
expansion? Why not? It´s a card that is very sought after and a lot of
players are needs of a lot of copies ...
- Keep changing the good artworks to bad ones (Look at CE for examples)
and leave the crappy ones (like the 10 times color copied Taste of
Vitae) forever. And more Photoshop edited photo art please, it suits the
modern times better.
- The background color for Master cards could be changed to, hmm, purple
yellow? At least we didnt´ have that one yet. And use the green color
for something else then, no color should be wasted by not reusing it for
something completely different.
- Foil cards have been a huge success in other card games. I guess we
are ready for shiny Vampires.
--
johannes walch
Orpheus
You forgot : Keep Ken Meyer Jr around forever ! After all, he's been
making crappy eyesore art until now, I don't see why he shouldn't
continue.
pd...@lightlink.com
Man. Y'all wanna complain much?
-Peter
x5m...@gmx.de
> Are you being Ironic?
Yes. The times i am dissapointed have gone, i am now only ironic.
But i am also inspired. Take for example a look at p. 221 of the
Players guide. All the beauty of the art design in its greatness.
"Changeling" with the old design, "Circumspect revelations" with
another typo for the name, "Command" and "Command of the beast" show
the different size of the discipline symbols, "Conditioning" in the CE
design etc.
Orpheus
Only when it can have a chance of improving things (in my opinion of
course). There have been some outstanding artists in VTES art, among
whom some recent additions like Rick Martin or Alejandro Colucci, not
to mention milestones like Christopher Shy. I just don't understand why
Ken Meyer is still allowed to massacre more illustrations.
Orpheus
Emmit Svenson
Orpheus wrote:
> pd...@lightlink.com wrote:
> > Orpheus wrote:
> > > You forgot : Keep Ken Meyer Jr around forever ! After all, he's been
> > > making crappy eyesore art until now, I don't see why he shouldn't
> > > continue.
> >
> > Man. Y'all wanna complain much?
>
> course).
Well, since you've never once complained about any previous sets, I'm
sure LSJ will sit right up and take notice of your current complaints
in a way he wouldn't for some habitual whiner.
Fabio Ciccone
complainig about things that happened before CE, since this can't be
changed. IMHO, since Anarchs the design is fine and consistent. The
only change is the typo of the card name in KMW, which came for the
best.
This doesn't change the fact that some backgrounds sucks :P
I think the design team is now doing a great job. And I'm only talking
about graphic design here. I have no opinion about reprints and
stuff...
Cheers
Fabio C.
Ankur Gupta
> names such as the recent Mayapatrisnaa, Huitzoptooey, Rastacouerre etc.
Mayaparisatya is trivially easy to pronounce. Course, I kinda speak
Sanskrit so I guess I'd say that. . . .
But it's easy!
Ankur
Johannes Walch
> Well, since you've never once complained about any previous sets, I'm
> sure LSJ will sit right up and take notice of your current complaints
> in a way he wouldn't for some habitual whiner.
Well, to my current knowledge LSJ isn´t exactly the guy that picks the
art for the cards. He is picking the text ;-)
--
Johannes Walch
Orpheus
Well, since you've never read one of the numerous posts about "which
artists are better or worse" where I've already stated this opinion
several times, I don't know how you can make such a false statement.
Orpheus, not a necrowhiner
Orpheus
Lol. Sure is !! And Wes is going to enjoy LoB a lot !! Not that names
are particularly hard to pronounce, but they are very unusual for
non-africans and therefore may be hard to remember (not that I'm
complaining really, because I think opening up to other cultures is
good, if these names have any local reality to them).
Orwyprhzeuqxs
Chris Berger
x5m...@gmx.de wrote:
>
> - We really need a new typo for the card names. It is a good tradition
> to change it every second edition. Maybe now we could use Garamond
> italic?
>
like Catherine du Boise, Physchic Projection, and Caitiff with group
and capacity reversed. ;)
Incidentally, I like Ken Meyer, Jr. Reminds me of the Drew Tucker
arguments of yore, though KMJ's art is a lot less abstract than Drew's.
pd...@lightlink.com
Orpheus wrote:
> Only when it can have a chance of improving things (in my opinion of
> course).
Sure. But claiming that Ken Meyer is "massacre"-ing illustrations isn't
likely to actually get you listened too. Sure, *you* might not like Ken
Meyer, but other folks do, and I don't think anyone could make a
particularly valid claim that he is an incompetent artist. And as he
produces stuff on a regular basis, it is likely that he'll keep being
used.
>I just don't understand why
> Ken Meyer is still allowed to massacre more illustrations.
Likely 'cause he is reasonably good, has an established relationship
with the company, and probably gets stuff in on time when they need it.
-Peter
Robert Goudie
p...@lightlink.com wrote:
> Orpheus wrote:
> > Only when it can have a chance of improving things (in my opinion of
> > course).
>
> Sure. But claiming that Ken Meyer is "massacre"-ing illustrations isn't
> likely to actually get you listened too. Sure, *you* might not like Ken
> Meyer, but other folks do, and I don't think anyone could make a
> particularly valid claim that he is an incompetent artist. And as he
> produces stuff on a regular basis, it is likely that he'll keep being
> used.
I'm a big fan of Ken Meyer's work. We have several of his pieces in our
collection (Barbaro, Gwendolyn, etc.).
-Robert
x5m...@gmx.de
Fabio Ciccone wrote:
> I think they finally got to a good design. I don't see the point in
> complainig about things that happened before CE, since this can't be
> changed. IMHO, since Anarchs the design is fine and consistent. The
> only change is the typo of the card name in KMW, which came for the
> best.
Yes.
And the changing of the background of the Baali (introduced in BL by WW
- and Ferox ADV got no change, so it was obviously not necessary), the
wrong place of some discipline symbols and the miniature typos.
And on top:
Printing all those embarassing mistakes in the Players guide, that we
can see them side by side.
x5m...@gmx.de
Chris Berger wrote:
> x5m...@gmx.de wrote:
> >
> > - We really need a new typo for the card names. It is a good tradition
> > to change it every second edition. Maybe now we could use Garamond
> > italic?
> >
> I think you mean new typeface. Although we do need more new typos,
> like Catherine du Boise, Physchic Projection, and Caitiff with group
> and capacity reversed. ;)
You are rigth. English is not my first language ...
pd...@lightlink.com
Robert Goudie wrote:
> I'm a big fan of Ken Meyer's work. We have several of his pieces in our
> collection (Barbaro, Gwendolyn, etc.).
I'm vero pro many of Ken Meyer's illustrations--Gwendolyn, for
instance, is one of my favorite portraits.
-Peter
Orpheus
Okay, looks like I'm in minority right here and now, lol. But really, I
find his paintings flat and often anatomically incorrect, and that
above any "question of taste" is a big con in my book. And some of my
least favourite art comes from him. Well, OMMV.
James Coupe
x5m...@gmx.de writes:
>- We really need a new typo for the card names. It is a good tradition
>to change it every second edition. Maybe now we could use Garamond
>italic?
Erm, "typo" typically means "typing error" and not "font".
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
David Zopf
"Orpheus" <orphe...@free.fr> wrote in message
news:1129220545....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> pd...@lightlink.com wrote:
>> Robert Goudie wrote:
>> > I'm a big fan of Ken Meyer's work. We have several of his pieces in our
>> > collection (Barbaro, Gwendolyn, etc.).
>>
>> I'm vero pro many of Ken Meyer's illustrations--Gwendolyn, for
>> instance, is one of my favorite portraits.
>>
>> -Peter
>
> Okay, looks like I'm in minority right here and now, lol. But really, I
> find his paintings flat and often anatomically incorrect,
http://www.angelfire.com/nc/gaekuri/picasso/picasso_weeping.jpg
> and that above any "question of taste" is a big con in my book.
One man's 'big con'...
DZ
AW
jeff...@pacbell.net
This looks like a good place to say...
MORE DREW TUCKER! ;)
Jeff
Peter D Bakija
> Okay, looks like I'm in minority right here and now, lol. But really, I
> find his paintings flat and often anatomically incorrect, and that
> above any "question of taste" is a big con in my book. And some of my
> least favourite art comes from him. Well, OMMV.
Yeah, I mean, like, no one is saying you have to *like* Ken Meyer's stuff
(and in fact, I have not been super fond of his most recent work, like,
what, Netchurch and Carna or whoever), but I think it can be objectively
said that he is at the least reasonably competent, and at the best,
occasionally really good.
Like, I've never found his work flat, and the anatomical incorrectness is
questionable, but ya know, whatever. There certainly are some arguably bad
pieces of VTES art, at least in my opinion (like, I'll not even *use* Ambush
'cause I think the illustration is so bad. The same goes for the new Fake
Out.), but I don't think Meyer is responsible for many, if any of them.
Peter D Bakija
pd...@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6
"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
Peter D Bakija
> This looks like a good place to say...
>
> MORE DREW TUCKER! ;)
Amen to that.
On a vaguely related note, I was totally psyched back in the day when famed
80's Marvel artist and clear Drew Tucker inspiration, Bill Senkevich (whose
name I can't even begin to spell right) did a few CCG cards (a couple Magic
cards, and the most powerful of XXXenophile cards that, when popped, allowed
you to "Splee Three Frooks"). Man. Can't we get him to do some VTES stuff?
His Black Widow comic just came out recently, and it was fantastic,
artistically speaking.
Chris Berger
> This looks like a good place to say...
>
> MORE DREW TUCKER! ;)
>
Incidentally, read this thread if you've never seen it before:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.misc/browse_frm/thread/244f280b086191e2/6a4e32fcb19295c2?hl=en#6a4e32fcb19295c2
My favorite part is where Quinton Hoover chimes in that he likes Drew
Tucker.
salem
<pd...@lightlink.com> scrawled:
>(like, I'll not even *use* Ambush
>'cause I think the illustration is so bad. The same goes for the new Fake
>Out.),
because, you know, the original jyhad fake out was soooo cool. ;)
oh no, that arrow faked out my skull thing!
salem
http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
pd...@lightlink.com
salem wrote:
> because, you know, the original jyhad fake out was soooo cool. ;)
Well, ya know, not the best piece ever or anything, but I so dislike
the current illustration that I only use Jyhad Fake Outs. But that is
me.
-Peter
Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
> And the changing of the background of the Baali (introduced in BL by WW
> - and Ferox ADV got no change, so it was obviously not necessary), the
> wrong place of some discipline symbols and the miniature typos.
>
How lucky for you that you know that the Baali background art was drawn on
the reverse side of the Gargoyle background art and was perfectly
compatible with the new card layout. If only White Wolf knew what you
knew.
There are many reasons why the Baali art could have been changed while the
Gargoyle art remained the same.
salem
did they change it again since sabbat? i'm picturing the 'new art' as
the sabbat one, some guy in sunglasses, i think, standing with his
arms out as if to balance himself, or something.
Daneel
<johanne...@vekn.de> wrote:
Unfortunately well put. I can't really add anything. Except, maybe:
- Speed up the pace in which expansions are released. Especially cut
the lead times for art design, card playtesting and final version
proofreading.
--
Bye,
Daneel