[LSJ] Confused with ending/canceling actions and NRA
Ector
"never performed", so the acting minion can play another action of the
same type (bleed or political action) regardless of NRA. Now I'm
trying to answer the question of my players, and I found this:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_thread/thread/c03a510c386ab298/cb852128ff067dfa
//------------------------------------
> So if an action is attempted and then cancelled, by say Psychomachia,
> and there is no text on the card stating that the action can't be taken
> again (like on Change of Target), the action can be attempted again
> even if it was one of the defined "cannot repeat" actions like
> bleeding??
No. If the action reaches resolution (like it does in order for
Psychomachia to be played), then the acting minion becomes unable to
perform the restricted action again (assuming the action is one that
is
restricted, like bleeding).
//------------------------------------
Can you specify when the action "reaches resolution"? As long as it's
blocked (or not blocked)? Does this mean that a minion performing the
cardless bleed CANNOT attempt to bleed with Govern after Red Herring
because of NRA? Red Herring also works when the minion is blocked,
like Psychomachia.
2. Is a minion considered "blocked" after Change of Target or Red
Herring? Does No Secrets from the Magaji burn after attempting to
block? Does the blocking vampire burns a blood for Forced Awakening or
not?
Sorry for the stupid questions, but I really need the clarification
Yours,
Ector
Jeff Kuta
> 1). I was thinking that canceling an action means that the action was
> "never performed", so the acting minion can play another action of the
> same type (bleed or political action) regardless of NRA. Now I'm
> trying to answer the question of my players, and I found this:
>
>
> > So if an action is attempted and then cancelled, by say Psychomachia,
> > and there is no text on the card stating that the action can't be taken
> > again (like on Change of Target), the action can be attempted again
> > even if it was one of the defined "cannot repeat" actions like
> > bleeding??
>
> No. If the action reaches resolution (like it does in order for
> Psychomachia to be played), then the acting minion becomes unable to
> perform the restricted action again (assuming the action is one that
> is
> restricted, like bleeding).
> //------------------------------------
>
> Can you specify when the action "reaches resolution"? As long as it's
> blocked (or not blocked)? Does this mean that a minion performing the
> cardless bleed CANNOT attempt to bleed with Govern after Red Herring
> because of NRA? Red Herring also works when the minion is blocked,
> like Psychomachia.
"Reaches resolution" means the action is either blocked or unblocked
and successful.
NRA restricts bleeds, so you can't bleed again, with a card or not, if
you Red Herring after a blocked bleed.
Red Herring has card text preventing the action from being taken
again. Psychomachia "cancels" the action, so it can be taken again.
Same like Tangle Atropos' Hand.
> 2. Is a minion considered "blocked" after Change of Target or Red
> Herring? Does No Secrets from the Magaji burn after attempting to
> block? Does the blocking vampire burns a blood for Forced Awakening or
> not?
Yes, "blocked." No, the "block" was successful, and is in fact
necessary for CoT and RH to be played at all. No, a vampire who FA's
and blocks still blocked. BUT, if a vampire FA's and gets Tangled,
they do burn a blood (but not from Psychomachia). Psychomachia
specifies "successful block" whereas Tangle specifics "attempting to
block" which means it hasn't happened yet.
Jeff
LSJ
> On Jul 8, 11:57 pm, Ector <E...@mail.ru> wrote:
>> 1). I was thinking that canceling an action means that the action was
>> "never performed",
No. It means something more like canceling a check -- the check was still
written. Canceling an action menas the action is prematurely terminated.
>> so the acting minion can play another action of the
>> same type (bleed or political action) regardless of NRA.
Only if the action that was canceled hadn't reached resolution.
>> Now I'm
>> trying to answer the question of my players, and I found this:
>>
>> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_t...
>>
>>> So if an action is attempted and then cancelled, by say Psychomachia,
>>> and there is no text on the card stating that the action can't be taken
>>> again (like on Change of Target), the action can be attempted again
>>> even if it was one of the defined "cannot repeat" actions like
>>> bleeding??
>> No. If the action reaches resolution (like it does in order for
>> Psychomachia to be played), then the acting minion becomes unable to
>> perform the restricted action again (assuming the action is one that
>> is
>> restricted, like bleeding).
>> //------------------------------------
>>
>> Can you specify when the action "reaches resolution"? As long as it's
>> blocked (or not blocked)? Does this mean that a minion performing the
>> cardless bleed CANNOT attempt to bleed with Govern after Red Herring
>> because of NRA? Red Herring also works when the minion is blocked,
>> like Psychomachia.
>
> "Reaches resolution" means the action is either blocked or unblocked
> and successful.
Correct. [6.2.3]
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec6_2_3
So if you resolve the successful action or enter block-combat (or play some
other effect that is played when the action succeeds or when the action is
blocked), then the action has reached resolution.
> NRA restricts bleeds, so you can't bleed again, with a card or not, if
> you Red Herring after a blocked bleed.
> Red Herring has card text preventing the action from being taken
> again.
Well, that's dealing with "same action". i.e., "Computer Hacking".
All the minions controlled by the vampire who played Red Herring cannot perform
the same action (e.g., computer hacking) that turn, and the vampire himself
cannot bleed in any manner again that turn.
> Psychomachia "cancels" the action, so it can be taken again.
No. The action reached resolution in order for Psychomachia to be played.
Therefore the minion cannot repeat the action.
> Same like Tangle Atropos' Hand.
Tangle is played before resolution and cancels the action, so resolution is
never reached. That's why the minion can repeat the action.
>> 2. Is a minion considered "blocked" after Change of Target or Red
>> Herring? Does No Secrets from the Magaji burn after attempting to
>> block? Does the blocking vampire burns a blood for Forced Awakening or
>> not?
>
> Yes, "blocked." No, the "block" was successful, and is in fact
> necessary for CoT and RH to be played at all. No, a vampire who FA's
> and blocks still blocked. BUT, if a vampire FA's and gets Tangled,
> they do burn a blood (but not from Psychomachia). Psychomachia
> specifies "successful block" whereas Tangle specifics "attempting to
> block" which means it hasn't happened yet.
Correct.