Turd
christian
> On Dec 3, 11:05 am, markste...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > The fact I make design seem easy,
>
> Sure, it's easy to design a pile of shit!!
>
> Go to it...
Here's my new game "Turd". It is played on an 8x8 board. Each player
has two pieces, one has "Bills", the other "Coreys". Bills start on A1
and H1, Coreys on A8 and H8.
Bills and Coreys move like Queens. They may not move onto or over a
square that is occupied by another piece or by a "Turd".
Bills move first after which turns alternate.
On his turn a player moves one of his pieces Queenwise and leaves a
"turd" on the square it starts from, or any intermediate square.
First to get stuck in the shit loses.
Have fun :)
marks...@gmail.com
On 5-Dec-2010, christian <chri...@mindsports.nl> wrote:
> The troll formerly known as w.ta...@math.canterbury.ac.nz wrote:
>
> > It's easy to design a pile of shit!!
>
> Here's my new game "Turd". ... Each player has two pieces, one
> has "Bills", the other "Coreys".
___________________________________________
___________________________________________
__###___________###########____###_________
__###__________#############___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__##########___#############___##########__
__##########____###########____##########__
___________________________________________
> Bills and Coreys move like Queens. They may not move onto or over a
> square that is occupied by another piece or by a "Turd".
___________________________________________
___________________________________________
__###___________###########____###_________
__###__________#############___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__##########___#############___##########__
__##########____###########____##########__
___________________________________________
> Bills move first after which turns alternate.
___________________________________________
___________________________________________
__###___________###########____###_________
__###__________#############___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__##########___#############___##########__
__##########____###########____##########__
___________________________________________
> On his turn a player moves one of his pieces Queenwise and leaves a
> "turd" on the square it starts from, or any intermediate square.
___________________________________________
___________________________________________
__###___________###########____###_________
__###__________#############___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__##########___#############___##########__
__##########____###########____##########__
___________________________________________
> First to get stuck in the shit loses.
___________________________________________
___________________________________________
__###___________###########____###_________
__###__________#############___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__###__________###_______###___###_________
__##########___#############___##########__
__##########____###########____##########__
___________________________________________
Perfect! lol Just what the doctor ordered! lol Fucking Bill Taylor and
Corey Clark leaving a trail of shit behind them and eventually getting stuck
in it! lol
Oh glorious major SMACK down!! All in the context of a game related
discussion! lol
marks...@gmail.com
the fact that he's plainly and publicly stated as much, and now this
blistering ridicule of you and Bill Taylor :D
Jackspritz
it's obvious he's talking about Corey Haim.
Bill Taylor
> Here's my new game "Turd". It is played on an 8x8 board. Each player
> has two pieces, one has "Bills", the other "Coreys". Bills start on A1
> and H1, Coreys on A8 and H8.
You forgot to mention the "Freeling" piece, so-called because it
can be Freely introduced onto the board by any player,
but if any other piece comes near it, it explodes on
the slightest contact!
b
marks...@gmail.com
The touchy infant formerly known as w.ta...@math.canterbury.ac.nz wrote:
> On Dec 5, 9:58 pm, christian <christ...@mindsports.nl> wrote:
>
> > Here's my new game "Turd". It is played on an 8x8 board. Each player
> > has two pieces, one has "Bills", the other "Coreys".
>
> You forgot to mention the "Freeling" piece, so-called because it
> can be Freely introduced onto the board by any player,
The "Freeling piece" in Bill's twisted logic is any world renowned abstract
game designer, and the "board" is rec.games.abstract. Yes, the Freeling
piece can be freely introduced here. In fact, it doesn't even need an
introduction. It can just show up unannounced.
The Freeling piece has no obligation to pay homage to group oaf, Bill
Taylor.
The Freeling piece can talk freely about whatever it wants in
rec.games.abstract, including games of its own design, games of other
designers, and parody games such as Turd that happen to feature "Bills"
leaving a trail of shit behind them. Even you can see the irony in that,
right Bill? :D
No? Too touchy?? lol
> but if any other piece comes near it, it explodes on
> the slightest contact!
Bill, the only thing exploding around here is you exploding into your
already shit filled diaper. Your exhaustive struggle to whip up drama in
rec.games.abstract is flagging.
You tried to subjugate Christian Freeling and he kneed you in the groin.
End of story. Nobody feels sorry for you, Bill. Oh the abuses you've
suffered at the brutal hand of Christian Freeling! lol
christian
> Sure, it's easy to design a pile of shit!!
>
> Go to it...
>
shit.
There's an obvious flaw in it: black can play symmetrically, so I've
reduced the board 7x7, intoduced more accepable actors: monkeys
dropping coconuts, and changed the name to Monkey Trap.
http://mindsports.nl/index.php/the-pit/573-monkey-trap
It is now half the size of Amazons and has half the number of pieces,
pieces that are also more limited in their move options, because the
number of 'move & shoot' options is far greater than the number of
'(move) drop & move' options.
So it makes a fast and interesting game for the younger ones with an
unusual source of inspiration.
Thanks Bill :)
christian
> There's an obvious flaw in it: black can play symmetrically ...
I've not been able to find anything concerning that in the assorted
Amazons rules, but can't black move rotational symmetric?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_the_Amazons
christian
why not", that's to say: how I 'invented' it :)
http://mindsports.nl/index.php/how-i-invented-games-and-why-not/late-arrivals-a-final-whispers#monkeytrap
marks...@gmail.com
On 7-Dec-2010, christian <chri...@mindsports.nl> wrote:
>
> I've not been able to find anything concerning that in the assorted
> Amazons rules, but can't black move rotational symmetric?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_the_Amazons
Good point, Christian. Mirroring is a source of trouble in games like
Amazons with too much symmetry. Dipole has the same problem.
There are mirror-countering schemes in both games. In Amazons for example
Player 1 (White) can move onto the main diagonal and shoot an arrow along
the main diagonal, crossing the center point of the board. Black can't
mirror that. But that's only in the opening game. A symmetric position can
arise unexpectedly (for at least one of the players) at some point in the
game where there are not any such mirror-defeating moves available. Then
it's an automatic win for one of the players.
I hate mirroring. There has to at least be a counter-mirroring scheme
available.
For stone placement games on odd sized boards, Player 1 can mirror Player 2
after first moving to the center point of the board. This can be simply
countered by invoking the pie rule.
I think the pie rule should be assumed to be an unwritten part of any game
that it can be. If it isn't needed, it isn't used. It sure isn't hurting
anything. If Player 1 is greedy with his initial move selection, I believe
Player 2 is well within his rights to say, "I'll take that. Thanks for
making such a good first move for me."
christian
> Player 1 (White) can move onto the main diagonal and shoot an arrow along
> the main diagonal, crossing the center point of the board. Black can't
> mirror that.
> I hate mirroring. There has to at least be a counter-mirroring scheme
> available.
The above holds for 8x8 Monkey Trap too, maybe I'll change it back to
the chess board.
christian
> The above holds for 8x8 Monkey Trap too, maybe I'll change it back to
> the chess board.
In fact, I did.
marks...@gmail.com
On 7-Dec-2010, christian <chri...@mindsports.nl> wrote:
Awesome :) Thanks Christian. Man you are on fire!
Bill, you're fidgeting.
Jackspritz
Christian I'd appreciate it if you took my name out of the description
of Monkey Trap. Heck, I'm not even fighting with Mark anymore. I'm not
sure how I became the victim of your Monkey Trap in the first place,
the only thing I said that you'd take offense to that I can think of
is that Query is your worst game. Buck up Christian! There are
designers out there with worse best games. Besides I thought you
already forgave me for saying that on iggamecenter and then you pull
this shit! (pun intended). Besides, do you really want people coming
to your site and reading about how you made a game purely as an insult
to some people you weren't getting along with online?
christian
> Christian I'd appreciate it if you took my name out of the description
> of Monkey Trap. Heck, I'm not even fighting with Mark anymore. I'm not
> sure how I became the victim of your Monkey Trap in the first place,
> the only thing I said that you'd take offense to that I can think of
> is that Query is your worst game. Buck up Christian! There are
> designers out there with worse best games. Besides I thought you
> already forgave me for saying that on iggamecenter and then you pull
> this shit! (pun intended). Besides, do you really want people coming
> to your site and reading about how you made a game purely as an insult
> to some people you weren't getting along with online?
On Dec 5, 10:31 pm, Jackspritz <schackow...@live.com> wrote:
> > > I couldn't bear to read the description. Here's Christian
> > > Freeling, a once respectable man talking about a game
> > > where pieces leave turds behind.
>
> > lol, Clark, it was a joke! Good GOD stop being so touchy!!
>
> and you thought I was serious? Still, I was a bit surprised.
A few points here:
It was a joke.
You didn't think it was seriuous.
You were surpised.
You became the 'victim' mainly because I needed an opponent for Bill.
I don't think you're such a bad guy, you just easily get carried away.
You mention Query. I never said I was unlocking a new universe there.
But it isn't Quax rotated. Just as with "The Game Previously Known As
Turd", you fail to read the description (ah, you couldn't bear it, the
pain, the suffering :).
Not to put too fine a point on it, but my thread about Sygo@mindsports
didn't get a reaction at all. Since Query I invented 5 games, 8 if you
count variants, 11 if you take the alternative object in the three
Charybdis variants into account. Gonnect is such an 'alternative
object' game and it is commonly considered a game in its own right. So
are these.
I've gone through a productive period, and you didn't comment on any
of it. That's ok for other posters, but you claim the ownership of a
group that orbits around abstract games. You ignore my work or at best
misrepresent it. Why shouldn't I be allowed to joke about that?
The essay is called "How I invented games and why not". This is how I
invented Monkey Trap, why should I lie? I posted the game at the LG-
BLOG _without_ the nature of its genesis. Then, in the first comment,
a poster asks about my motivation (he seemed to have the impression
that I consciencely had simplified Amazons to make a kind of
'springboard' to that game).
Should I have answered with a lie to shield you against the fall-out
of a mild joke?
Bill Taylor of course has mentioned my genitalia la lot more often
than any games, but then, he's an expert on the former and knows shit
(pun intended) about the latter.
Just concentrate on games and I'm sure we'll get along fine.
marks...@gmail.com
On 8-Dec-2010, christian <chri...@mindsports.nl> wrote:
> Bill Taylor of course has mentioned my genitalia la lot more often
> than any games, but then, he's an expert on the former and knows shit
> (pun intended) about the latter.
Bonobo Taylor, bagged in a monkey trap. You can't make this shit up! :D
Jackspritz
> Just concentrate on games and I'm sure we'll get along fine.
I am. I'm concentrating on a game on your site where the design
process is described as an act of revenge against me for all the wrong
I've done against you. Now this is an outright lie, I pretty much
stayed out of the dispute you were having with Bill Taylor. At least
be honest about the design process. I figured you just needed an
opponent for Bill Taylor. Great, say that. Don't say I'm one of two
posters who doesn't like you very much. And don't use my damn name!
You might as well write Corey Clark, there is no other "Corey" in the
abstract games community that I'm aware of.
Jackspritz
oh bravo
> I've gone through a productive period, and you didn't comment on any
> of it. That's ok for other posters, but you claim the ownership of a
> group that orbits around abstract games. You ignore my work or at best
> misrepresent it. Why shouldn't I be allowed to joke about that?
*loud, pronounced "bullshit" sound* Come on Christian, you know this
is bullshit, so why did you say it? You're just trying to justify this
childish crap rather than set it right. I tried to get people to talk
about your remarkable journey and nobody did, that's not my fault.
> The essay is called "How I invented games and why not". This is how I
> invented Monkey Trap, why should I lie? I posted the game at the LG-
> BLOG _without_ the nature of its genesis. Then, in the first comment,
> a poster asks about my motivation (he seemed to have the impression
> that I consciencely had simplified Amazons to make a kind of
> 'springboard' to that game).
that's the other thing, you ended up making a pretty pointless game
that maybe there wasn't any point putting on your site in the first
place. Amazons is already made, this is on the same level as Twrs.
> Should I have answered with a lie to shield you against the fall-out
> of a mild joke?
It's not a mild joke Christian, it's my reputation. Everyone is going
to think I dissed the great one Chris Freeling and I don't doubt at
least a few people will shun me and any games I might create over
this.
christian
>
> It's not a mild joke Christian, it's my reputation. Everyone is going
> to think I dissed the great one Chris Freeling and I don't doubt at
> least a few people will shun me and any games I might create over
> this.
On Nov 14, 10:10 pm, Jackspritz <schackow...@live.com> wrote:
> On Nov 14, 2:07 pm, christian <christ...@mindsports.nl> wrote:
>
> > (Description of Query: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.abstract/browse_thread/thread/ef4e4ec1e0ad530d#).
>
> great it's Quax rotated 45 degrees. I would be nicer about it but not
> if it's rec.bile.insult.
On Nov 14, 3:21 pm, christian <christ...@mindsports.nl> wrote:
> On Nov 14, 11:02 pm, Jackspritz <schackow...@live.com> wrote:
> > > > It's a game and it should be nicer indeed if you judged it on its merits.
> > > Merits? Where?
> > Don't you think that's cheap?
> Yes but I don't need to hold my posts to a very high standard on rec.bile.insult
> > > I'm implying that it's not very interesting.
> > Then why waste words on it?
> because you brought it up and I have bile and insult to expel about it. That's what we do at rec.bile.insult
So what reputation are we talking about? If you can't stand the heat,
stay out of the kitchen.
marks...@gmail.com
On 8-Dec-2010, Jackspritz <schac...@live.com> wrote:
> On Dec 8, 6:07 am, christian <christ...@mindsports.nl> wrote:
> > Just concentrate on games and I'm sure we'll get along fine.
>
> I pretty much stayed out of the dispute you were having with
> Bill Taylor.
lol, Is this for the imaginary readership who didn't witness you ripping
Christian's game to shreds? Etc., etc., etc., for the past few weeks?
I'm all for truces, Corey, but it was agreed upon in the context of you
saying you were "getting out" and then later considering making game related
posts here. Not in the context of you coming back two days later to make
ridiculous, self-serving claims in rec.games.abstract.
> And don't use my damn name!
It's not too late for the truce, as far as I'm concerned, but it needs to be
extended to all respected members of the abstract games community, including
most notably Christian Freeling. Tone it down.
Personally, I think you got off easy, Corey. I don't know how, but I
suspect Christian could have done worse. Monkey Trap represents restraint
on Christian's part, not excess.
> There is no other "Corey" in the abstract games community
> that I'm aware of.
Corey is not all that uncommon. In the apartment building I used to live in
before I moved into a house there was a guy named Corey. His wife was kinda
hot but they moved away. My point being that your incarceration in a monkey
trap is only an issue because you're making it an issue. Nobody would even
think twice about it. "Ha ha. Bills and Coreys leaving turds behind in a
harmless, light hearted children's game." Not "Let's see... Christian is
ridiculing Corey, therefore I need to blacklist all games designed by people
named Corey."
Jackspritz
> On 8-Dec-2010, Jackspritz <schackow...@live.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 8, 6:07 am, christian <christ...@mindsports.nl> wrote:
> > > Just concentrate on games and I'm sure we'll get along fine.
>
> > I pretty much stayed out of the dispute you were having with
> > Bill Taylor.
>
> lol, Is this for the imaginary readership who didn't witness you ripping
> Christian's game to shreds? Etc., etc., etc., for the past few weeks?
>
> Not in the context of you coming back two days later to make
> ridiculous, self-serving claims in rec.games.abstract.
I hardly call an entreaty to, who I thought was a reasonable person,
Christian Freeling that he not use my name in the description of a
game in which I shit all over the board self-serving.
> It's not too late for the truce, as far as I'm concerned, but it needs to be
> extended to all respected members of the abstract games community, including
> most notably Christian Freeling. Tone it down.
lol it's not like the truce was a huge relief for me or anything.
Flame away if you want. Christian Freeling needs to "tone it down" now
he's moved this dispute elsewhere on the internet, that's bad enough
but he's dragged me in to it just to facilitate the joke which is
pretty lame in the first place. I think I'll just make a game called
Christian Freeling Loses His Shit and let this dispute go.
Christian you need to think CRITICALLY about what you are doing. I
apologized for my insulting remarks directed towards Query and as I
recall you accepted that apology. Even if I hadn't apologized or you
hadn't accepted my apology this goes beyond some flaming in a news
group, it's practically defamation of character. What's so bad about
leaving my name out of the description of the design process for this
game? Can you tell me that? It's not lying if you simply leave my name
out of the description. I'm not even that upset that you provided a
link here, at least people might see me trying to defend myself then.
christian
Jackspritz
> "Dodgson! We got Dodgson here"
lol
Jackspritz
so now you're presenting yourself as the bad guy from Jurassic Park?
o_o
Jackspritz
owns a group orbiting around abstract games, yet fails to discuss them
seriously, or even cares to read the rules."
I can't say this is much better, not only did I read the rules but I
dutifully read through the account of your design process that led you
to Sygo. And it's true that I don't post there often but I established
the site to give other members of the community a forum discuss
abstract games on a technical level after Nick Bentley led me to
believe Mark's attitude had had a significant effect on the traffic of
this site.
christian
> Christian Freeling needs to "tone it down" now
> he's moved this dispute elsewhere on the internet, that's bad enough
> but he's dragged me in to it just to facilitate the joke which is
> pretty lame in the first place.
There's this clip where he collects turds to arrange them neatly on a
much frequented footbridge, early in the morning, before people go to
work. Hilarious!
But I didn't move the dispute. I posted Monkey Trap at LG without its
genesis. But Thnikkaman asked the why and how, so I gave the why and
how.
Now the point: Nobody cares.
There has been no single reference to its genesis, only posts about
the game itself.
>I think I'll just make a game called
> Christian Freeling Loses His Shit and let this dispute go.
That would be a good idea! Only problem may be to' just make a game',
but I'd be surprised if you hadn't anything lying on the shelf. You
could even make it an entry for the contest: Freeling Loses His Shit
wins contest! ;-)
marks...@gmail.com
On 8-Dec-2010, Jackspritz <schac...@live.com> wrote:
> I established the site to give other members of the community
> a forum
A magnanimous giving of yourself then. How does that explain the month of
non-stop vitriol that landed you in a monkey cage?
> Nick Bentley led me to believe Mark's attitude had had a
> significant effect on the traffic of this site.
If you really want to know what happened here before, just look at what's
happening now. When I saw Christian's account of how his game announcements
are almost always ignored - exept when they're getting complained about - I
thought I was reading my own story. Eventually you're like, "Hey people.
Fuck off. I'm the only one contributing decent games and it's like I have a
disease."
Then the dogpiling begins. Only instead of Bill and Corey, keepers of the
turd, dogpiling on Christian, it was Bill and five other morons dogpiling on
me. Same Billy the bully. Different ant.
Jackspritz
some truce this turned out to be. Maybe we can have another one for
Christmas, y'know in the yuletide spirit.
marks...@gmail.com
On 8-Dec-2010, Jackspritz <schac...@live.com> wrote:
lol, ok. Sorry :)
May I just say though that, and not directing this to you in particular,
Corey, ill will toward any notable designer, including Christian, here in
rec.games.abstract will be taken personally by me. I have a particular
aversion to the game, Dogpile on the Designer.
Jackspritz
christian
> I'll take any insult directed at me personally.
> I don't know if I want inbred cannibals on RGC. It's bad mojo for our
profit structure.
> P.S. all new posts from me will be final and most decidedly
undiplomatic. I encourage reciprocation.
> Just some spam I came up with on the fly:
(Several posts with ridiculous random info)
> Well nobody here had anything to say about it... Okay, I take that
back, you did, but that just ended up being a front to plug your
games
again.
(On Sygo)
> Wow Michael I had no idea you were an asshole as well as groveling
sniveling little shit. Just goes to show, you learn something new
with
each passing day.
(On Michael Howe)
> I deleted his post that did nothing but escalate a disagreement
with Bill Taylor. It was ridiculous actually. Leaving Shangri La,
give
me a break. Unlike Omar Syed, I have the balls to erase bullshit from
my forum.
(On my leaving 'Shangri La')
> But really what the fuck are you talking about? Mediocrity!
Rec.bile.insult is mediocre, at best. No, there's no post too stupid,
inane, pointless or absurd for RBI. Now that's mediocre. I mean You
old guys in your ivory towers! It's hilarious what you come up with.
(On me and?)
> yeah this is a group dedicated to "the struggle to discuss games in an
environment of spam and extreme insults".
(As provided by Bill Taylor?)
> Who the fuck said anything about bypass, wow you old guys are so
paranoid.
(But I don't take every insult personally :)
>And what the fuck are you doing Christian? Allying
yourself with a goofball who still hasn't gotten over the formative
years when scatological subjects are still funny.
I'm not allying myself and I speak for myself. But you invited Bill
into your group, who excells in rants involving genitalia, especially
mine. I'm not taking that personally - it would lead to indigestion -
but you're _tainted_ by Bill. You never object to any of his insults
(real insults, not mild ridicule) and most of all: never object to his
frequent use of "We all ...".
marks...@gmail.com
On 9-Dec-2010, christian <chri...@mindsports.nl> wrote:
> On Dec 8, 11:40 pm, Jackspritz <schackow...@live.com> wrote:
>
> > ...a front to plug your [Christian Freeling] games again.
>
> > I deleted [Christian Freeling's] post that did nothing but
> > escalate a disagreement with Bill Taylor.
>
> > You old guys in your ivory towers! It's hilarious what you
> > come up with.
>
> > wow you old guys are so paranoid.
>
> >And what the fuck are you doing Christian?
>
> You're _tainted_ by Bill. You never object to any of his insults
> (real insults, not mild ridicule) and most of all: never object to his
> frequent use of "We all ...".
Might as well get comfortable in your monkey trap, Corey.