Emerson Electric
azotic
States is not a good place to manufacture and it will continue moving its
assets offshore.
The federal government is "doing everything in [its] manpower [and]
capability to destroy U.S. manufacturing," says David Farr, chairman and CEO
of Emerson Electric Co., in a presentation at the Baird 2009 Industrial
Conference in Chicago Ill., on Nov. 11. In comments reported by Bloomberg,
Farr added that companies will continue adding jobs in China and India
because they are "places where people want the products and where the
governments welcome you to actually do something. I am not going to hire
anybody in the United States. I'm moving. They are doing everything possible
to destroy jobs."
In his Powerpoint presentation available on the Emerson Electric Web site,
Farr notes that the federal government is damaging prospects for U.S.
economic growth with a $1.41 trillion federal deficit (10 percent of GDP);
$12 trillion in government debt that will grow to $20 trillion in 10 years;
a policy of printing money; a "non-targeted $800-billion stimulus"; bailouts
for Wall Street and the automobile companies; the prospect for cap and trade
legislation; a "government takeover" of health care to the tune of more than
$1 trillion; increasing taxes and regulations; and a "lack of U.S. $
support" for manufacturing. The global stimulus "soon will fade," says Farr.
http://www.manufacturingnews.com/news/09/1117/EmersonElectric.html
Best Regards
Tom.
Buerste
"azotic" <azo...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:h64Sm.79021$Xf2....@newsfe12.iad...
Yep, sounds about right. The Democrats can't get everybody dependent on
Gov. cheese-checks if there are wealth-creating jobs available from
independent business. Therefore, the Democrats must destroy businesses that
they can't own or control completely. Look at the businesses the Democrats
have destroyed, commandeered, stolen or driven overseas. Notice how Obama
didn't have representatives from small businesses at his "Job Talk" thing.
Then he blamed small businesses for not hiring more employees. What a fool!
Can the Conservatives turn around this blatant power grab when they take
back Congress in 2010 and the WH in 2012? American citizens are already fed
up with the Democrats, I can't wait until they are tossed out.
Ignoramus26134
i
Cydrome Leader
> Emerson Electric is where I bought two Syncrowave 250s for $150 each.
I bought a cookie yesterday, I ate it after lunch. I am proud of myself.
Ignoramus26134
Considering the apparent lack of more interesting things that you have
reported, you have every reason to be proud of that.
i
F. George McDuffee
wrote:
<snip>
>Can the Conservatives turn around this blatant power grab when they take
>back Congress in 2010 and the WH in 2012?
============
It appears to be very late in the game for any such turnaround.
It increasingly appears that the "establishment's" idea of
economic recovery and development is the [re]inflation of asset
bubbles rather than the [re]establishment of a solid base of high
value added manufacturing.
For one thing the trained workforce has been dissipated, and for
another, much of the physical plant, infrastructure and
supporting businesses have been liquidated.
Even if there was the political will to again stress domestic
high value added manufacturing, the workforce must be
[re]trained, the plants, machines, and processes reconstructed,
and the supporting businesses reconstituted.
In any event, the RINOs and neo-con/closet fascists, even with a
new Republican/Conservative cost of camouflage paint won't/can't
get the job done.
Cydrome Leader
I bought a drill bit at Ace Hardware once. I am very proud of my
accomplishment.
Too_Many_Tools
Hmmm...Bush had eight years to change the situation and he didn't.
The Republican Congress had many more years and they didn't.
And now "F*ckhead Farr" (his nickname within EE) is whining about it.
Sounds like someone is worried that the many years of Emerson
offshoring its production may not continue.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
I am passing on a question that I was just asked about this post.
If Emerson will not hire any Americans (" I am not going to hire
anybody in the United States."), why should any American consumer or
business buy a product that contains Emerson content?
TMT
Ignoramus26134
> Ignoramus26134 <ignoram...@nospam.26134.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2009-12-04, Cydrome Leader <pres...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
>>> Ignoramus26134 <ignoram...@nospam.26134.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Emerson Electric is where I bought two Syncrowave 250s for $150 each.
>>>
>>> I bought a cookie yesterday, I ate it after lunch. I am proud of myself.
>>
>> Considering the apparent lack of more interesting things that you have
>> reported, you have every reason to be proud of that.
>
> I bought a drill bit at Ace Hardware once. I am very proud of my
> accomplishment.
Wow!
What is a drill bit?
i
Buerste
"Ignoramus26134" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.26134.invalid> wrote in message
news:3s2dneAYg6PLx4TW...@giganews.com...
A spoonerism for "Bill Drit", a guy I knew in college.
Buerste
"Too_Many_Tools" <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:872a06b0-09e6-4e11...@o10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
TMT
**********************
Why should any manufacturer care about the US markets? The rest of the
world has some sane governments, friendly to manufacturing and have huge
markets for manufactured goods. The US is broke, heavily in debt, with
shrinking markets and rapidly becoming a third-world country. Enjoy your
libtard Utopia!
dca...@krl.org
> I am passing on a question that I was just asked about this post.
>
> If Emerson will not hire any Americans (" I am not going to hire
> anybody in the United States."), why should any American consumer or
> business buy a product that contains Emerson content?
>
> TMT
Easy. Emerson products will be made by people that work and should be
rewarded for working. You seem to have a very provincial mind.
Dan
Cydrome Leader
my bad, I meant I bought welder from a company. I'm so proud of myself- I
just have to tell everybody!
Pete C.
Possibly because there isn't any American company that makes the
product?
pyotr filipivich
about Fri, 4 Dec 2009 11:40:58 -0800 (PST) did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
I have a question for the TMT types. If Emerson moves production
outside the US, because the US Government seems to be opposed to
people who actually hire people and produce things, with what will
they buy products which have Emerson content? Government IOUs? Food
ration cards?
The US is headed towards (God willing) a short term as a "soft"
currency. Meaning that the US Dollar will not be a preferred currency
except locally, and then maybe not even then. (I'll give an example
of what having a "soft" currency means. Negotiating in the cashbah in
Tangiers, the guy would not go below six dinar. Till my friend pulled
out a US dollar bill - then going for four dinar at the exchange.
Ended the haggling, closed the deal, everybody got the better end.)
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
Ignoramus26134
product. I would not expect anyone to stop buying goods with Emerson
products just because its CEO threw a hissy fit at some conference.
I would also expect firms like Emerson to reconsider moving their
production abroad, in case if dollar continues to decline in value
against other currencies and approaches a more realistic exchange
rate.
i
Rich Grise
> One of the country's most important industrial companies says the United
> States is not a good place to manufacture and it will continue moving its
> assets offshore.
>
> The federal government is "doing everything in [its] manpower [and]
> capability to destroy U.S. manufacturing," says David Farr, chairman and
> CEO of Emerson Electric Co., in a presentation at the Baird 2009
> Industrial Conference in Chicago Ill., on Nov. 11.
By protecting the unions, who have caused the problem. Companies simply
can't afford to pay $50.00/hr for work that's only worth $20.
Cheers!
Rich
F. George McDuffee
<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I am passing on a question that I was just asked about this post.
>
>If Emerson will not hire any Americans (" I am not going to hire
>anybody in the United States."), why should any American consumer or
>business buy a product that contains Emerson content?
>
>TMT
=============
This seems to yet another example where the US legal structure,
policy and regulations are at least a generation behind reality.
I also find it hard to imagine a Japanese, Korean, Chinese, or
German CEO making such a public statement.
At one time, apparently up through the mid to late 80s, a
more-or-less accurate , albeit unconscious, syllogism summarized
the American economy.
When American companies do well, America does well,
. and when America does well, Americans do well.
About the mid to late 80s, a wave of internationalism swept
through America's corporations with the result that the
corporations (and indeed their officers and directors) no longer
regard themselves as American corporations, but rather as
international corporations that happened to be, more-or-less by
historical accident, domiciled/chartered in the US.
FWIW -- this shift in corporate outlook has not stopped these
"international" companies from running to the Federal government
for assistance and "muscle" in trade disputes, nor has it slowed
down their avid and eager sucking on the Federal tit in the
slightest.
Unka George
(George McDuffee)
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).
John R. Carroll
> Let the Record show that "dca...@krl.org" <dca...@krl.org> on or
> about Fri, 4 Dec 2009 11:40:58 -0800 (PST) did write/type or cause to
> appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>> On Dec 4, 6:51 pm, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I am passing on a question that I was just asked about this post.
>>>
>>> If Emerson will not hire any Americans (" I am not going to hire
>>> anybody in the United States."), why should any American consumer or
>>> business buy a product that contains Emerson content?
>>>
>>> TMT
>>
>> Easy. Emerson products will be made by people that work and should
>> be rewarded for working. You seem to have a very provincial mind.
>>
>> Dan
>
> I have a question for the TMT types. If Emerson moves production
> outside the US, because the US Government seems to be opposed to
> people who actually hire people and produce things,
LOL
They are moving to their markets. A global economy is served locally. It
couldn't be otherwise.
"the US Government" has nothing to do with that fact of life.
>with what will
> they buy products which have Emerson content? Government IOUs? Food
> ration cards?
Why do you support the creation or promotion of "government" that would have
you embrace a five dollar per day standard of living?
Just head off to China, or Viet Nam. You are unemployed anyway. Go and do
somethin'!
Take Gummer with you. He's ripped of his fellows beyond his time.
The both of you need skills you don't have to be worth anything as
employees.
> pyotr filipivich
> We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
> It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
Obviously true in your case.
--
John R. Carroll
pyotr filipivich
about Fri, 04 Dec 2009 13:41:34 -0800 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Paying $20.05 for work worth $20.00 is merely a slow way to ruin.
As we said in the machine shop "If the spindle ain't turning,you
ain't earning."
-
Wes
>Emerson products usually are not immediately visible to a buyer of any
>product. I would not expect anyone to stop buying goods with Emerson
>products just because its CEO threw a hissy fit at some conference.
IIRC, Emerson made the Rigid brand of power tools for Homedespot and other box stores.
They also make a lot of motors.
When your competition is moving to China and our current government thinks business is
still the cash cow to milk, I'd have similar views.
I really hate corporate taxes, those get paid by the consumers but we the consumers don't
see how those taxes empty our pockets.
This is a distinction between the Dems and the Republicans. Dems like taxing corporations
so consumers don't see how it affects them. Republicans don't like taxing corporations
since that is where jobs exist.
Eventually we have to pay for everything but I truly believe, the Republicans want the guy
or gal working for a living to see what government is costing him. The Dems, the party of
government, doesn't want you to see how the parasitic constituency empties your pocket.
Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
Too_Many_Tools
> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Says a winger whose largest market is in the United States.
Hypocrite.
How's that massive company expansion working for you?
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
So you are saying that only the Chinese should buy Emerson products?
So why is Emerson even in the United States?
Are the Chinese paid enough to buy them?
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
> Buerste wrote:
>
> > "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ever hear of going without?
And other AMERICAN companies who DO hire Americans do make comparable
products.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
> Let the Record show that "dcas...@krl.org" <dcas...@krl.org> on or
Answer my question...that you are avoiding to answer.
The CEO has publicly stated that he WILL NOT HIRE AMERICANS.
So he has publically stated that he only expects Americans to pay him
through buying his Chinese products and WILL NOT HIRE AMERICANS
thereby not creating wealth here in the United States.
Sounds like an economic domestic terrorist to me who is feeding upon
the wealth of the United States.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
You are so full of BS.
So why isn't Emerson requiring currency instead of the American
dollar?
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
As usual Ig is correct.
The CEO is throwing his typical fit because we now actually have an
Adminstration.....a Democratic Adminstration...that is not rubber
stamping corporate interests.
The man actually will have to start earning his pay.
Cry me a river winger....
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
Another BS statement.
Do you get paid by the shovel?
TMT
dca...@krl.org
> So you are saying that only the Chinese should buy Emerson products?
No
>
> So why is Emerson even in the United States?
Ask Emerson.
>
> Are the Chinese paid enough to buy them?
Yes
>
> TMT
Buerste
Hypocrite.
TMT
***********************************************
How's that job search going? Do you want me to review you resume? Don't
give up, even though you receive an Obammy cheese-check, you NEED to get out
of your mom's basement. (I'm STILL running overtime!)
Too_Many_Tools
> pyotr filipivich wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Likely he wants it because his economic situation is five dollars a
day.
But one must wonder why he and Gunner don't move to China?
But then again they would have to actually work wouldn't they?
And all their BS Usenet postings would come to a screeching halt.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
Making CEO compensation a function of USA (labor and content) sales
would go a long ways to adjusting attitude.
TMT
John R. Carroll
I think Pyotr would be willing and able to put in an honest days work.
He's described his job here a couple of times and it isn't gravy.
That description, however, is the problem. I could replcae him with a robot
and an optical scanning inspection station.
It would be more reliable than any human and be without the costs related to
employment.
He needs to train out of a discipline that supports this as a smart business
descision.
His competition isn't some Chinaman, it's GE Fanuc Robotics.
--
John R. Carroll
Too_Many_Tools
>
> - Show quoted text -
So why isn't Emerson totally in China...production and sales?
And why does the CEO still live in the USA...can't find a house in
China?
Does the door have to hit them in the butt before the CEO quits
whining?
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
>
> - Show quoted text -
LOL...I was right on target.
The only OT you are running is posting on Usenet because business
sucks.
Better pray that Obama saves you.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
And the Chinese programmers that GE has doing the programming.
TMT
Ignoramus26134
> Ignoramus26134 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.26134.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Emerson products usually are not immediately visible to a buyer of any
>>product. I would not expect anyone to stop buying goods with Emerson
>>products just because its CEO threw a hissy fit at some conference.
>
> IIRC, Emerson made the Rigid brand of power tools for Homedespot and other box stores.
> They also make a lot of motors.
I believe that Ridgid is Ridge tool in Pennsylvania.
> When your competition is moving to China and our current government
> thinks business is still the cash cow to milk, I'd have similar
> views.
>
> I really hate corporate taxes, those get paid by the consumers but
> we the consumers don't see how those taxes empty our pockets.
>
> This is a distinction between the Dems and the Republicans. Dems
> like taxing corporations so consumers don't see how it affects them.
> Republicans don't like taxing corporations since that is where jobs
> exist.
>
> Eventually we have to pay for everything but I truly believe, the
> Republicans want the guy or gal working for a living to see what
> government is costing him. The Dems, the party of government,
> doesn't want you to see how the parasitic constituency empties your
> pocket.
1
I think that we should separate the "what" from "why".
Republicans like corporations and "the wealthy" to pay less income
taxes.
I think that you are right by saying so.
The next question is why exactly they do so. Maybe it is because they
like downtrodden people? Or maybe it is accidental? Or, perhaps, maybe
it is because Republicans get donations from those welthy people?
In any case, as you pointed out, eventually we have to pay for
everything.
i
Ed Huntress
"Ignoramus26134" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.26134.invalid> wrote in message
news:-t2dnRkESNtIVoTW...@giganews.com...
> On 2009-12-05, Wes <clu...@lycos.com> wrote:
>> Ignoramus26134 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.26134.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>Emerson products usually are not immediately visible to a buyer of any
>>>product. I would not expect anyone to stop buying goods with Emerson
>>>products just because its CEO threw a hissy fit at some conference.
>>
>> IIRC, Emerson made the Rigid brand of power tools for Homedespot and
>> other box stores.
>> They also make a lot of motors.
>
> I believe that Ridgid is Ridge tool in Pennsylvania.
Ridge Tool is owned by Emerson.
Emerson is widely diversified in industrial, home, medical, and other
industries, and they're always looking for growth.
What's going on here is that they're planning to move to high-growth parts
of the world and their CEO is trying to make them look like heroes for doing
so, rather than like the heels they'll be seen as, as they close their US
plants.
Among the many ironies is that Dave Farr is bitching about the US embarking
on a universal health care system, while he's planning to move a lot of
plant to China, where they embarked on an even more extreme nationalization
of health care in January of this year. The rest of his complaint is of
similar substance and character.
China and India will have growth rates that the West is not likely to see
again. My impression of Emerson has always been that they talk a good line
about long-term growth, while they make tactical moves to enhance short-term
profit. They seem to have their eyes on nothing so much as the value of
their stock, quarter-to-quarter. They are loyal to nothing and to nobody.
So, Farr is following the money, heading for parts of the world that are
digging out of the middle ages and growing at twice the West's growth rate.
Expect some surprise plant closings and trucks moving in and out in the
middle of the night.
--
Ed Huntress
Ignoramus26134
>
> "Ignoramus26134" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.26134.invalid> wrote in message
> news:-t2dnRkESNtIVoTW...@giganews.com...
>> On 2009-12-05, Wes <clu...@lycos.com> wrote:
>>> Ignoramus26134 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.26134.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Emerson products usually are not immediately visible to a buyer of any
>>>>product. I would not expect anyone to stop buying goods with Emerson
>>>>products just because its CEO threw a hissy fit at some conference.
>>>
>>> IIRC, Emerson made the Rigid brand of power tools for Homedespot and
>>> other box stores.
>>> They also make a lot of motors.
>>
>> I believe that Ridgid is Ridge tool in Pennsylvania.
>
> Ridge Tool is owned by Emerson.
yep, you are right.
i
Too_Many_Tools
> "Ignoramus26134" <ignoramus26...@NOSPAM.26134.invalid> wrote in message
I agree.
F*ckhead Farr has worked hard to earn his nickname.
A real Republican hypocrite.
TMT
Gunner Asch
<gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote:
>On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 04:25:42 -0500, "Buerste" <bue...@wowway.com>
>wrote:
><snip>
>>Can the Conservatives turn around this blatant power grab when they take
>>back Congress in 2010 and the WH in 2012?
><snip>
>============
>It appears to be very late in the game for any such turnaround.
>
>It increasingly appears that the "establishment's" idea of
>economic recovery and development is the [re]inflation of asset
>bubbles rather than the [re]establishment of a solid base of high
>value added manufacturing.
>
>For one thing the trained workforce has been dissipated, and for
>another, much of the physical plant, infrastructure and
>supporting businesses have been liquidated.
>
>Even if there was the political will to again stress domestic
>high value added manufacturing, the workforce must be
>[re]trained, the plants, machines, and processes reconstructed,
>and the supporting businesses reconstituted.
>
>In any event, the RINOs and neo-con/closet fascists, even with a
>new Republican/Conservative cost of camouflage paint won't/can't
>get the job done.
>
Indeed.
Gunner, Independant
"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone.
I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout"
Unknown Usnet Poster
Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls.
Keyton
Cydrome Leader
> On Dec 4, 6:51?pm, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I am passing on a question that I was just asked about this post.
>>
>> If Emerson will not hire any Americans (" I am not going to hire
>> anybody in the United States."), why should any American consumer or
>> business buy a product that contains Emerson content?
>>
>> TMT
>
> Easy. Emerson products will be made by people that work and should be
> rewarded for working. You seem to have a very provincial mind.
>
> Dan
Emerson has absorbed quite a few respected companies that make good
products over the years.
They're pretty much the Vishay of the electrical world. If you don't know
what Vishay is, just look at their website http://www.vishay.com/
every type of product they make is from one of more companies they
absorbed. It's truly impressive.
pyotr filipivich
or about Fri, 4 Dec 2009 14:44:38 -0800 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>
>> I have a question for the TMT types. If Emerson moves production
>> outside the US, because the US Government seems to be opposed to
>> people who actually hire people and produce things,
>
>LOL
>They are moving to their markets. A global economy is served locally. It
>couldn't be otherwise.
>"the US Government" has nothing to do with that fact of life.
>
>
>>with what will
>> they buy products which have Emerson content? Government IOUs? Food
>> ration cards?
>
>Why do you support the creation or promotion of "government" that would have
>you embrace a five dollar per day standard of living?
>Just head off to China, or Viet Nam. You are unemployed anyway. Go and do
>somethin'!
Why should I go to a third world country, where I don't speak the
language, whenthe Demcorats are blithely attempting to transform the
US into athird world country, where I still don't speak the language?
-
Gunner Asch
The big question I ask you Comrade,,,,is the Government supposed to
provide that magic "everything" you keep talking about?
Gunner
"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.
This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
Buerste
TMT
*************************************************
Is Obammy -Wee-Wee going so send me some money? Yep, I'm broke, black and a
Democrat, I'll hire a Democrat accountant, they know how to cook the books
real good!. You'll testify for me, won't you? I know you have the time,
it's re-run season. When do I get my cheese-check? You know all the scams,
teach me, oh master!
Ignoramus12571
No, but we will pay eventually for all government expenses, even if
funded by government debt. It is better to start paying earlier, than
later.
I have always been supportive of taxes that reflect the level of
government spending. Unlike you, for example, I pay considerable
amount of taxes, so this support is not because I want others to pay
for something.
i
Wes
>The next question is why exactly they do so. Maybe it is because they
>like downtrodden people? Or maybe it is accidental? Or, perhaps, maybe
>it is because Republicans get donations from those welthy people?
>
I believe the idea that wealthy people are the major source of Republican funding is an
often repeated fallacy.
>In any case, as you pointed out, eventually we have to pay for
>everything.
That is true. I want to know just how much I am paying for that everything.
There is an art of hiding the knife in politics when it comes to taxes. They want the
money, they just don't want you to see where it came from for fear you will revolt.
Wes
--
The most dangerous tyrant in America is a 'Policy Wonk'.
F. George McDuffee
============
High volume high value added anything will do, including
agriculture and mining, however manufacturing is easier.
The well known axion "If you want more -- make more" continues to
be correct, with the stipulation that you must make stuff that
people want/need, e.g. GM/Chrysler cars.
An important qualification is that a significant portion of the
[received] value added must go to paying down governmental,
corporate and individual debts, not be skimmed by the
suits/taxman, or used to justify more borrowing.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9CD8LL80&show_article=1&catnum=1
<snip>
An Associated Press analysis of the economic state of more than
3,100 U.S. counties shows that conditions in manufacturing
counties have been improving since March while the average county
continues to get worse.
Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
Gunner Asch
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.12571.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>In any case, as you pointed out, eventually we have to pay for
>>>everything.
>>>
>>>i
>> The big question I ask you Comrade,,,,is the Government supposed to
>> provide that magic "everything" you keep talking about?
>
>No, but we will pay eventually for all government expenses, even if
>funded by government debt. It is better to start paying earlier, than
>later.
>
So rather than put a halt to what the government pays for, growing in
size like the old Soviet..taking control of all busines...we should just
cough up the money and feed it to them so they can turn into the Soviet?
>I have always been supportive of taxes that reflect the level of
>government spending. Unlike you, for example, I pay considerable
>amount of taxes, so this support is not because I want others to pay
>for something.
>
>i
Of course Comrade. You came to America and want to change it to the very
nation you escaped from.
One strongly recommends you read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights
again and again until you see the flaws in your world view.
F. George McDuffee
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.12571.invalid> wrote:
======
Don't dump on Gunner. He is simply acting like a corporation.
The technical name for this is "cost externalization," and from a
business sense it is perfectly rational. Why pay for anything
that you can get some one else to pay for?
In current usage, "cost externalization" generally means
environmental damage, but it is shifting the cost for anything of
value received to someone else, including the next generation.
One example of non-environmental cost shifting is the
proliferation of tax increment financing [externalizing costs to
the general taxpaying public] for infrastructure improvements
such as roads, sewers, power lines, that almost totally benefits
a single business, and which they would otherwise have to pay
for. Another example is "economic development" grants. [Why not
a 5 million dollar unrestricted state grant to Gunner for
"research?"]
Note that some of the following articles seem to have confused
"cost externalization" with "out sourcing." If you pay for it,
its "out sourcing," if you get someone else to pay for it, its
"cost externalization." [google on <cost externalization> for
4.3K hits.]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_externalizing
http://www.ilo.org/public/english/protection/safework/papers/ecoanal/wr_chp1.htm
http://faculty.plattsburgh.edu/richard.robbins/political_economy_of_twinkies.htm
http://www.pcdf.org/1997/PKortenresponsibility.htm
As I point out in a response to another thread, "cost
externalization" is diametrically opposed to the basic concepts
of a "free market" economy because it distorts the relationship
between what the consumer must pay up front for a product or
service [what they perceive it costs], and what it actually costs
them in total. A prime example of this is that "cheap" pump
price of 2.69$US/gal for gasoline.
Eregon
4456-b557-5...@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
> Ever hear of going without?
>
> And other AMERICAN companies who DO hire Americans do make comparable
> products.
>
Ever hear of REALITY?
The Average American Consumer couldn't care less where a product is made
so long as it doesn't cost him very much.
This is proven by the failure of the many "Buy American" campaigns that,
with few exceptions, have failed miserably.
The FACT is that large US manufacturers are laying off American workers
in favor of paying a tenth of the over-bloated Union wages to workers who
happen to live where the taxes are cheap.
You can thank the Unions for the destruction of America.
Buerste
"Ignoramus12571" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.12571.invalid> wrote in message
news:CKadnaVjgMw5x4fW...@giganews.com...
I don't mind paying taxes, I mind paying for "Murtha Airport", "Bridges to
Nowhere" and other absolute CRAP that the government spends my money on and
the people that they let steal it.
Buerste
"Ignoramus26134" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.26134.invalid> wrote in message
news:-t2dnRkESNtIVoTW...@giganews.com...
<snip>
> Republicans like corporations and "the wealthy" to pay less income
> taxes.
Interesting, most of Obama's cabinet were caught with "mistakes" on their
returns.
> The next question is why exactly they do so. Maybe it is because they
> like downtrodden people? Or maybe it is accidental? Or, perhaps, maybe
> it is because Republicans get donations from those wealthy people?
Interesting, do you know that Wall Street donated to Democrats by something
like a 4-to-1 ratio? The falacy is that the "wealthy" are Republicans when
the fact is the "wealthy" are largely Democrats.
Don't be blinded by your bias.
Ed Huntress
"Buerste" <bue...@wowway.com> wrote in message
news:hfedn0$q37$1...@aioe.org...
Wall Street goes with the winner, and they're smart enough to realize it
would be a Democrat that would win in 2008.
You can look up the final figures if you're interested, but as of Mar. 2008,
it looked like this, counting the securities and investment industry; their
employees; and their PACs:
Clinton: $6.29 million
Obama: 6.03 million
McCain: 2.59 million
But they don't care which party the winner is coming from; they just want to
be on board with the winner. Here's how it's looked in other recent
presidential elections:
2004:
Bush: $8.8 million
Kerry: 4.3 million
2000:
Bush: $4.0 million
Gore: 1.4 million
They're neither Democrats nor Republicans. What they are is Winners -- or
whores, as you prefer.
> Don't be blinded by your bias.
And don't be blinded by yours, Tom.
--
Ed Huntress
Gunner Asch
<gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote:
> Another example is "economic development" grants. [Why not
>a 5 million dollar unrestricted state grant to Gunner for
>"research?"]
Ooooh! I like it! Tell me more! And Id be perfectly happy with just
2.5 million for "research"
Gunner Asch
True indeed.
Just keep in mind..that Iggy is in fact an ex communist from Russia..and
as such...his entire mental background has been formed on the Soviet
ideal.
I cut him slack because of this defect in his thinking. He really cant
help it..its so deeply engrained into his world view that it colors
everything he sees and do.
Ignoramus12571
>
> "Ignoramus12571" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.12571.invalid> wrote in message
>> government spending. Unlike you, for example, I pay considerable
>> amount of taxes, so this support is not because I want others to pay
>> for something.
>
> Nowhere" and other absolute CRAP that the government spends my money on and
> the people that they let steal it.
>
I agree with that. In such a case, I would direct my ire at those
projects, as opposed to the taxes that they necessitate.
i
Buerste
"Gunner Asch" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:gmqlh59u5br75a80a...@4ax.com...
All the "imports" I have known have embraced conservatism with gusto. But,
they moved away from really bad situations.
Buerste
TMT
**************************************
Your fantasy of the Government owning everything and paying everyone's wages
has been tried many times and it doesn't work. When you rob Peter to pay
Paul, peter says "Screw you" and stops being robbed. You and all your Paul
buddies are a drain on us Peters and YOU guys shouldn't let the door hit you
in the butt before Gunner's solution comes to fruition.
Buerste
On Dec 4, 4:22 pm, F. George McDuffee <gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us> wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 10:51:32 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
>
> <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >I am passing on a question that I was just asked about this post.
>
> >If Emerson will not hire any Americans (" I am not going to hire
> >anybody in the United States."), why should any American consumer or
> >business buy a product that contains Emerson content?
>
> >TMT
>
> This seems to yet another example where the US legal structure,
> policy and regulations are at least a generation behind reality.
> I also find it hard to imagine a Japanese, Korean, Chinese, or
> German CEO making such a public statement.
>
> At one time, apparently up through the mid to late 80s, a
> more-or-less accurate , albeit unconscious, syllogism summarized
> the American economy.
>
> When American companies do well, America does well,
> . and when America does well, Americans do well.
>
> About the mid to late 80s, a wave of internationalism swept
> through America's corporations with the result that the
> corporations (and indeed their officers and directors) no longer
> regard themselves as American corporations, but rather as
> international corporations that happened to be, more-or-less by
> historical accident, domiciled/chartered in the US.
>
> FWIW -- this shift in corporate outlook has not stopped these
> "international" companies from running to the Federal government
> for assistance and "muscle" in trade disputes, nor has it slowed
> down their avid and eager sucking on the Federal tit in the
> slightest.
>
> Unka George
>
> (George McDuffee)
>
> The past is a foreign country;
> they do things differently there.
> L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
> The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).
Making CEO compensation a function of USA (labor and content) sales
would go a long ways to adjusting attitude.
TMT
*****************************************************
.
If you don't like a company's methods, don't buy their products. If a
company's products cost too much due to a CEO's pay, they won't be
competitive. Your communist ways don't work.
Ignoramus12571
>> Just keep in mind..that Iggy is in fact an ex communist from Russia..and
>> as such...his entire mental background has been formed on the Soviet
>> ideal.
>>
>> I cut him slack because of this defect in his thinking. He really cant
>> help it..its so deeply engrained into his world view that it colors
>> everything he sees and do.
>
> they moved away from really bad situations.
I used to fit this description, until Bush attacked Iraq. This opened
my eyes.
i
Buerste
"Ignoramus12571" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.12571.invalid> wrote in message
You do mean Bush AND Congress, don't you? They ALL screwed up. But, blame
Bush alone if it makes you happy.
Gunner Asch
I think you just became confused.
Ignoramus19850
>
> "Ignoramus12571" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.12571.invalid> wrote in message
> news:WMWdnQOM87klrobW...@giganews.com...
>> On 2009-12-06, Buerste <bue...@wowway.com> wrote:
>>>> Just keep in mind..that Iggy is in fact an ex communist from Russia..and
>>>> as such...his entire mental background has been formed on the Soviet
>>>> ideal.
>>>>
>>>> I cut him slack because of this defect in his thinking. He really cant
>>>> help it..its so deeply engrained into his world view that it colors
>>>> everything he sees and do.
>>>
>>> All the "imports" I have known have embraced conservatism with gusto.
>>> But,
>>> they moved away from really bad situations.
>>
>> I used to fit this description, until Bush attacked Iraq. This opened
>> my eyes.
>>
>> i
>
> You do mean Bush AND Congress, don't you? They ALL screwed up. But, blame
> Bush alone if it makes you happy.
>
I place blame squarely on the Republican party and Bush for that one.
i
ATP*
paying taxes and you are leeching off the system, getting free government
services and free healthcare. Kind of ironic.
ATP*
"azotic" <azo...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:h64Sm.79021$Xf2....@newsfe12.iad...
> One of the country's most important industrial companies says the United
> States is not a good place to manufacture and it will continue moving its
> assets offshore.
>
>
motors in Mexico:
Emerson Motor Technologies' operations in Monterrey, Mexico, has reached 50
years of service. Founded in 1955, the Motores U.S. de Mexico facility
started with just 18 employees and now employs over 1,000 people.
"We are extremely proud of the administration, staff and employees at our
Motores U.S. de Mexico plant for their tireless commitment to producing high
quality U.S. motor products year after year after year," said Jim Lindemann,
chairman of Emerson Motor Co. "They continue to demonstrate excellence in
customer service by ensuring that our distributors, OEMs and end-user
customers have a consistent, high quality supply of U.S. Motors products
available to ...
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-143724197.html
The Emerson burner motor on a Beckett oil burner is a good example of the
"high quality supply of U.S. Motors products"
Gunner Asch
wrote:
Free government services? Which ones? And free healthcare? Ive paid
for those many many times in the past 45 yrs in taxes alone.
But hey...spew all you want. Im now a Democrat..and as such, deserve
everything the Party gives me. And you are bitching about it? Talk to
your masters in the DNC and complain.
Laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh!!
<plink>
Too_Many_Tools
12571.invalid> wrote:
> On 2009-12-05, Gunner Asch <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:56:21 -0600, Ignoramus26134
> ><ignoramus26...@NOSPAM.26134.invalid> wrote:
>
> >>On 2009-12-05, Wes <clu...@lycos.com> wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Spoken like a responsible American.
Gunner could learn much from Ig.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
So is that how George Bush ran up a TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT?
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
> On Sat, 05 Dec 2009 07:05:40 -0600, Ignoramus12571
>
Hey...I think I agree with Gunner about cutting government spending.
Let's start first with all the welfare that Gunner has been getting.
Next let get all the back taxes that he hasn't paid for decades.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
> Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:a5cc7a67-5ce7-
> 4456-b557-50938cd8d...@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Ever hear of going without?
>
> > And other AMERICAN companies who DO hire Americans do make comparable
> > products.
>
> Ever hear of REALITY?
>
> The Average American Consumer couldn't care less where a product is made
> so long as it doesn't cost him very much.
>
> This is proven by the failure of the many "Buy American" campaigns that,
> with few exceptions, have failed miserably.
>
> The FACT is that large US manufacturers are laying off American workers
> in favor of paying a tenth of the over-bloated Union wages to workers who
> happen to live where the taxes are cheap.
>
> You can thank the Unions for the destruction of America.
Better pay attention.
Americans DO CARE where a product is made.
Otherwise why do companies go to incredible lengths to hide where
their products come from?
And why are companies fighting the labeling of food origin?
Give Americans the information they need and they will vote with their
dollars.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
> Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:a5cc7a67-5ce7-
> 4456-b557-50938cd8d...@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
>
>
> > And other AMERICAN companies who DO hire Americans do make comparable
> > products.
>
> Ever hear of REALITY?
>
> The Average American Consumer couldn't care less where a product is made
> so long as it doesn't cost him very much.
>
> This is proven by the failure of the many "Buy American" campaigns that,
> with few exceptions, have failed miserably.
>
> The FACT is that large US manufacturers are laying off American workers
> in favor of paying a tenth of the over-bloated Union wages to workers who
> happen to live where the taxes are cheap.
>
> You can thank the Unions for the destruction of America.
And you can thank George Bush for the destruction of America.
And you helped him do it.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
> "Ignoramus26134" <ignoramus26...@NOSPAM.26134.invalid> wrote in message
Wall Street started donating to Democrats because they decided that
the Republicans were destroying the Country.
LOL...yeah...your own friends turned on you.
Just like Cheney shooting his friends in the face.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
> "Buerste" <buer...@wowway.com> wrote in message
>
> news:hfedn0$q37$1...@aioe.org...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Ignoramus26134" <ignoramus26...@NOSPAM.26134.invalid> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well said.
TMT
Ed Huntress
Jeez, Gunner, the way you're plonking everyone who makes you look foolish,
you'll soon be able to fit your whole little group into a couple of body
bags.
But no, you've never paid a fraction of your own healthcare. You've never
even paid the interest on it. What's actually happened is that you've just
become what you once despised, and now you're flopping like a flounder
trying to justify yourself.
Don't think you have anyone fooled. And don't fight it so hard. If you think
about what's happened to you, you may even come to realize why what you
*were* is the thing that really should be despised. Now that you're on the
other side of that coin, you ought to take the opportunity to think about
what it all means.
--
Ed Huntress
Too_Many_Tools
> On Sat, 5 Dec 2009 14:53:50 -0500, "Buerste" <buer...@wowway.com> wrote:
>
> >"Ignoramus26134" <ignoramus26...@NOSPAM.26134.invalid> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sad attempt by Gunner to smear Ig noted.
It didn't work.
Ig is a credit to America.
Gunner is a smear of roadkill.
The end result of a Conservative Cull that is currently occurring.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
LOL Still trying to avoid answering the question?
TMT
Rich Grise
> "Gunner Asch" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
>> On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 22:42:34 -0500, "ATP*" <waxwin...@azurepane.com>
>>>paying taxes and you are leeching off the system, getting free
>>>government services and free healthcare. Kind of ironic.
>>>
>> Free government services? Which ones? And free healthcare? Ive paid
>> for those many many times in the past 45 yrs in taxes alone.
>>
>> But hey...spew all you want. Im now a Democrat..and as such, deserve
>> everything the Party gives me. And you are bitching about it? Talk to
>> your masters in the DNC and complain.
>>
>> Laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh!!
>
> you'll soon be able to fit your whole little group into a couple of body
> bags.
Liberals don't recognize sarcasm either?
Thanks,
Rich
Too_Many_Tools
> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't buy many products because of certain practices.
Many companies would not be competive because of CEO compensation if
they were being responsible corporate citizens.
Do you enjoy paying taxes to support their employees with no health
care while the CEO makes hundreds of millions of year in bonuses?
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
12571.invalid> wrote:
A sign of an intelligent individual.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
> "Ignoramus12571" <ignoramus12...@NOSPAM.12571.invalid> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
You mean Bush and the Republican Congress.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
> >news:WMWdnQOM87klrobW...@giganews.com...
> >> On 2009-12-06, Buerste <buer...@wowway.com> wrote:
> >>>> Just keep in mind..that Iggy is in fact an ex communist from Russia..and
> >>>> as such...his entire mental background has been formed on the Soviet
> >>>> ideal.
>
> >>>> I cut him slack because of this defect in his thinking. He really cant
> >>>> help it..its so deeply engrained into his world view that it colors
> >>>> everything he sees and do.
>
> >>> All the "imports" I have known have embraced conservatism with gusto.
> >>> But,
> >>> they moved away from really bad situations.
>
> >> I used to fit this description, until Bush attacked Iraq. This opened
> >> my eyes.
>
> >> i
>
> > You do mean Bush AND Congress, don't you? They ALL screwed up. But, blame
> > Bush alone if it makes you happy.
>
> I place blame squarely on the Republican party and Bush for that one.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
As do millions of fellow Americans.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
> "Gunner Asch" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
>
> news:gmqlh59u5br75a80a...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>
> >>"Ignoramus26134" <ignoramus26...@NOSPAM.26134.invalid> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
And completely true.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
> On Sun, 6 Dec 2009 22:42:34 -0500, "ATP*" <waxwingsl...@azurepane.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >"Gunner Asch" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
> >news:gmqlh59u5br75a80a...@4ax.com...
>
> >>>"Ignoramus26134" <ignoramus26...@NOSPAM.26134.invalid> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Gunner the Parasite of America
TMT
Ed Huntress
"Rich Grise" <rich...@example.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.12.07....@example.net...
You'd have to ask a liberal to be sure, Rich, but the body bag analogy was,
as you'll notice, sarcasm in its own right.
Gunner is indeed being sarcastic, but he's not making a joke when he says
he's paid for his $300,000-plus in healthcare ($275,000 in this round, and I
think it was $21,000 or $27,000 back in '04, when he had his first heart
attack and the stents). He wants people to believe it. Just ask him if he's
joking about that, or if he's serious.
--
Ed Huntress
dca...@krl.org
Most Americans are not as prejudiced against other countries as you
are. Many believe that buying products from third world countries
helps those countries to develop economies that pay a decent wage.
TMT apparently wants Americans to only buy products made in America.
Does this describe TMT?
"A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her
own opinions and prejudices.
The correct use of the term requires the elements of obstinacy,
irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing devotion.
The origin of the word bigot and bigoterie in English dates back to at
least 1598, via Middle French, and started with the sense of
"religious hypocrite". Forms of bigotry may have a related ideology or
world views."
Dan
F. George McDuffee
>Too_Many_Tools <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:a5cc7a67-5ce7-
>4456-b557-5...@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Ever hear of going without?
>>
>> And other AMERICAN companies who DO hire Americans do make comparable
>> products.
>>
>
>Ever hear of REALITY?
>
>The Average American Consumer couldn't care less where a product is made
>so long as it doesn't cost him very much.
>
>This is proven by the failure of the many "Buy American" campaigns that,
>with few exceptions, have failed miserably.
>
>The FACT is that large US manufacturers are laying off American workers
>in favor of paying a tenth of the over-bloated Union wages to workers who
>happen to live where the taxes are cheap.
>
>==>You can thank the Unions for the destruction of America.<==
============
While this may sound plausible, the workforce at AIG and Lehman
Brothers were not unionized, particularly in their offshore
operations where most of their troubles (and profits) seemed to
originate, and they did not go into bankruptcy because of
excessive labor costs.
It is not logical to blame the current economic and long-term
industrial/manufacturing problems of the United States on the
high wages paid to one group of corporate employees [blue collar]
while characterizing attempts to limit the wages of another group
of corporate employees [officers, managers and directors] as some
sort of communist plot or socialism.
It is well to remember that when the wages of employees are cut,
you also largely cut the taxes that they pay by the same amount.
Even the main stay of local government, the real estate property
tax, will be hit because the individuals and their families can
no longer afford to live in houses, and the revenue from the
state sales and income tax will also drop by about the same
amount.
Cutting wages not only reduces tax revenues, which the remaining
producers must attempt to make up through higher rates, but also
greatly increases the demand for governmental services such as
food stamps, WIC and low income (subsidized) housing.
The city of Detroit and the state of Michigan are prime examples
of what happens with significant wage reductions.
In general, cheap labor is too expensive for the majority of
citizens, although it may benefit the few, and this only until
their tax bills arrive, or they need a public service such as
police or fire.
While shells of these organizations still exist, the Teamsters,
the Steel Workers, and the UAW have all been operationally
broken, but the promised economic "rapture" has still not
arrived. This strongly indicates the operation of the old adage
"I cut it off twice and its still too short."
While exceptions do exist, it appears that organizations
generally get [or got] the [type of] union they asked for and
deserved, and the executives that howl the loudest about union
excesses are the same ones the unions are most closely imitating
in extracting excessive compensation, including wages, from the
company, regardless of personal performance.
Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
F. George McDuffee
>Ignoramus26134 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.26134.invalid> wrote:
>
>>The next question is why exactly they do so. Maybe it is because they
>>like downtrodden people? Or maybe it is accidental? Or, perhaps, maybe
>>it is because Republicans get donations from those welthy people?
>>
>
>I believe the idea that wealthy people are the major source of Republican funding is an
>often repeated fallacy.
>
>>In any case, as you pointed out, eventually we have to pay for
>>everything.
>
>That is true. I want to know just how much I am paying for that everything.
>
>There is an art of hiding the knife in politics when it comes to taxes. They want the
>money, they just don't want you to see where it came from for fear you will revolt.
>
>Wes
=========
This goes to the heart of the free enterprise system in that a
consumer can make a rational choice only if they know what the
total product/service cost is.
wmbjk...@citlink.net
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>"Gunner Asch" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
>news:t93ph5to5ogr62uhc...@4ax.com...
>> Free government services? Which ones? And free healthcare? Ive paid
>> for those many many times in the past 45 yrs in taxes alone.
>> Gunner
>
>Jeez, Gunner, the way you're plonking everyone who makes you look foolish,
>you'll soon be able to fit your whole little group into a couple of body
>bags.
>
>But no, you've never paid a fraction of your own healthcare. You've never
>even paid the interest on it. What's actually happened is that you've just
>become what you once despised, and now you're flopping like a flounder
>trying to justify yourself.
Perhaps you missed the part of gummer's post where he demonstrated yet
again that he should have paid more attention in grade school. He said
he's been paying taxes for 45 years, which would make him 11 when he
started. So he'd have readers believe that he was so civic-minded that
he paid taxes on his paper route and lemonade stand income. Or maybe
he's talking about the taxes on his smokes? Anyway, it seems that he
paid so much back then that 2 decades ago he decided that it would
only be fair if he skipped out on his property taxes in perpetuity.
Even funnier is this thread.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics/msg/9806c5ec3716c02c.
Gummy's ranch "acreage" (which turns out to be ~56' X 126' according
to the dimensions on his county's online map) has grown yet again!
Only a week or so ago he claimed to "lease" <snorf> some lots other
than the one he lives on. But now land baron gummer declares: "I own a
quarter of an entire block". Never mind that it would take 7 of the
average lots on his street to make a single acre. But then, perhaps he
"owns" some larger parcels in Beverly Hills as well. :-)
Wayne
Ed Huntress
<wmbjk...@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:a9fqh51l0oihebhh5...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 00:47:04 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
> <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Gunner Asch" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
>>news:t93ph5to5ogr62uhc...@4ax.com...
>
>>> Free government services? Which ones? And free healthcare? Ive paid
>>> for those many many times in the past 45 yrs in taxes alone.
>
>>> Gunner
>>
>>Jeez, Gunner, the way you're plonking everyone who makes you look foolish,
>>you'll soon be able to fit your whole little group into a couple of body
>>bags.
>>
>>But no, you've never paid a fraction of your own healthcare. You've never
>>even paid the interest on it. What's actually happened is that you've just
>>become what you once despised, and now you're flopping like a flounder
>>trying to justify yourself.
>
> Perhaps you missed the part of gummer's post where he demonstrated yet
> again that he should have paid more attention in grade school. He said
> he's been paying taxes for 45 years, which would make him 11 when he
> started.
<g> No, I didn't miss it. I just don't waste time getting involved with
his...ah, stories anymore. If you wanted a good whopper, you may have
noticed in the past week how he had to drop his insurance in October 2008,
which means, if you followed closely and believed his many other statements
on the subject, he had medical insurance for no more than 11 months of the
past 8 years and now is rueing his ill fortune at having had a heart attack
just three months after his insurance terminated. Have you heard the one
about the gang-bangers at the desert pistol range? That one was far more
imaginative. d8-)
I only become annoyed at the constant bigotries and put-downs -- political,
geographical, etc. If that's what he needs to inflate his own self-image,
there's an entire literature on that subject and far be it from me to tell
him what to do about it in his private life. When it becomes public and it
sours the atmosphere, as it does here, I'll say something. Otherwise, you'll
have to catch his whoppers on your own. There certainly are enough of them
flying by to keep you busy.
--
Ed Huntress
Yooper
says...
>
> Have you heard the one about the gang-bangers at the desert pistol
range? That one was far more
imaginative. d8-)
I think my favorite was his snow camping at minus 60 deg. I was born
up here, been here 62 years, and it's never hit -60.
Ed Huntress
"Yooper" <yoope...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.25873a65f...@news.charter.net...
Mmm.. he musta used a different scale. <g>
--
Ed Huntress
Ignoramus8601
>> Perhaps you missed the part of gummer's post where he demonstrated yet
>> again that he should have paid more attention in grade school. He said
>> he's been paying taxes for 45 years, which would make him 11 when he
>> started.
There is two possibilities of his statement being true:
1) He may be referring to sales taxes
2) Maybe during childhood, he had some investments in his name and had
to pay taxes on capital gains and income.
2 seems highly unlikely and 1 is questionable as to whether it
qualifies as taxes.
><g> No, I didn't miss it. I just don't waste time getting involved with
> his...ah, stories anymore. If you wanted a good whopper, you may have
> noticed in the past week how he had to drop his insurance in October 2008,
> which means, if you followed closely and believed his many other statements
> on the subject, he had medical insurance for no more than 11 months of the
> past 8 years and now is rueing his ill fortune at having had a heart attack
> just three months after his insurance terminated. Have you heard the one
> about the gang-bangers at the desert pistol range? That one was far more
> imaginative. d8-)
I have not heard that one.
> I only become annoyed at the constant bigotries and put-downs -- political,
> geographical, etc. If that's what he needs to inflate his own self-image,
> there's an entire literature on that subject and far be it from me to tell
> him what to do about it in his private life. When it becomes public and it
> sours the atmosphere, as it does here, I'll say something. Otherwise, you'll
> have to catch his whoppers on your own. There certainly are enough of them
> flying by to keep you busy.
I personally disagree with him trying to discount my political views
by bringing up where I came from. It makes it difficult to have a
meaningful discourse.
i
Ed Huntress
"Ignoramus8601" <ignora...@NOSPAM.8601.invalid> wrote in message
news:bLednWrNEsW0FoDW...@giganews.com...
> On 2009-12-07, Ed Huntress <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>> Perhaps you missed the part of gummer's post where he demonstrated yet
>>> again that he should have paid more attention in grade school. He said
>>> he's been paying taxes for 45 years, which would make him 11 when he
>>> started.
>
> There is two possibilities of his statement being true:
First off, that wasn't me you quoted. I don't call him gummer.
>
> 1) He may be referring to sales taxes
In 1963, Michigan's sales tax was raised to 6%. So maybe if was spending,
oh, say $90,000/year. That would be $5,400. Then the tax would go to pay for
all of the things in Michigan's budget that are paid for by sales tax.
Hmmm....maybe if he spent $900,000/year.
That's one hell of an allowance, or a really big paper route.
> 2) Maybe during childhood, he had some investments in his name and had
> to pay taxes on capital gains and income.
Iggy, Iggy...please. d8-)
>
> 2 seems highly unlikely and 1 is questionable as to whether it
> qualifies as taxes.
>
>><g> No, I didn't miss it. I just don't waste time getting involved with
>> his...ah, stories anymore. If you wanted a good whopper, you may have
>> noticed in the past week how he had to drop his insurance in October
>> 2008,
>> which means, if you followed closely and believed his many other
>> statements
>> on the subject, he had medical insurance for no more than 11 months of
>> the
>> past 8 years and now is rueing his ill fortune at having had a heart
>> attack
>> just three months after his insurance terminated. Have you heard the one
>> about the gang-bangers at the desert pistol range? That one was far more
>> imaginative. d8-)
>
> I have not heard that one.
It was a beauty. Maybe it's still on Google Groups.
>
>> I only become annoyed at the constant bigotries and put-downs --
>> political,
>> geographical, etc. If that's what he needs to inflate his own self-image,
>> there's an entire literature on that subject and far be it from me to
>> tell
>> him what to do about it in his private life. When it becomes public and
>> it
>> sours the atmosphere, as it does here, I'll say something. Otherwise,
>> you'll
>> have to catch his whoppers on your own. There certainly are enough of
>> them
>> flying by to keep you busy.
>
> I personally disagree with him trying to discount my political views
> by bringing up where I came from. It makes it difficult to have a
> meaningful discourse.
I was waiting for you to react to that. I had one hell of a message
pre-written, in case Gunner and Tom continued to gang up on you. d8-)
--
Ed Huntress
Too_Many_Tools
>
> - Show quoted text -
I have no problem buying products from different countries.
I want to know where it was made so I can choose.
Don't you?
Or would you rather be a sheeple led around by your master?
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
> >4456-b557-50938cd8d...@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well said.
It took me a few years to come to the same realization.
The union red herring that others like to parade out doesn't work on
me anymore.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
>
> - Show quoted text -
Agreed.
And the fact that companies hard to hide that information should be a
big red flag for every consumer.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
> "Yooper" <yooper1...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:MPG.25873a65f...@news.charter.net...
>
> > In article <4b1d4759$0$31258$607ed...@cv.net>, huntre...@optonline.net
> > says...
>
> >> Have you heard the one about the gang-bangers at the desert pistol
> > range? That one was far more
> > imaginative. d8-)
>
> > I think my favorite was his snow camping at minus 60 deg. I was born
> > up here, been here 62 years, and it's never hit -60.
>
> Mmm.. he musta used a different scale. <g>
>
> --
> Ed Huntress
Like when he tells the girls about his male enhancement. ;<)
TMT
dca...@krl.org
>
> Or would you rather be a sheeple led around by your master?
>
> TMT
Typical ad hominem argument.
Dan