Incandescent Light Bulb Ban Pushed Back

[Robin Sisler]

This is great news! More time to hoard!


http://www.ecogeek.org/component/content/article/3663


http://www.facebook.com/Numismatist

[CoolBreeze]

The enviomentalists are just shills for Al Gore's millions. These light
bulbs dont even last as long as regular bulbs and cost $25.

"All the waste in a year from a nuclear power plant can be stored under a
desk."
Ronald Reagan

"Approximately 80% of our air pollution stems from hydrocarbons released by
vegetation, so let's not go overboard in setting and enforcing tough
emission standards from man-made sources."
Ronald Reagan

On top of that you have other natural emissions. Forest fires, most from
lightening, volcanic activity both above and below ground and oceans around
the world, natural disasters,(earth quakes kick up poisons) and dust from
space, and meteors and more.

So what do they want you to do? Go out and buy Omamma contributer GE
produced mercury laced light bulbs. destroy "clunkers" and buy goverment
produced cars. Legalized robbery. it's a massive redistribution of wealth.
"Robin Sisler" <pres...@compugrade3d.com> wrote in message
news:jcsade$33p$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

[Jerry Dennis]

"Robin Sisler" and "CoolBreeze" wrote a bunch of drival.

And what about our coinage? Does anyone else remember irradiated
dimes? It was horrible! Those poor dimes were subjected to intense
radiation, then released into circulation! Oh, the humanity!

Jerry

[Paul Ciszek]

In article <1de5a64a-fad4-4dff...@n6g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>,

What, exactly, were they exposed to? If they were bombarded with
neutrons, releasing them into circulation without testing them
first would be very irresponsible.


--
Please reply to: | "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is
pciszek at panix dot com | indistinguishable from malice."
Autoreply is disabled |

[Paul Ciszek]

In article <jcsb06$4is$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,

CoolBreeze <coolb...@freedomworks.com> wrote:
>The enviomentalists are just shills for Al Gore's millions. These light
>bulbs dont even last as long as regular bulbs and cost $25.

You need to find a better store; I pay a fraction of that,
and I haven't had to replace any since I switched the current apartment
over. (Before that, I was replacing incandescents pretty frequently.)

>"Approximately 80% of our air pollution stems from hydrocarbons released by
>vegetation, so let's not go overboard in setting and enforcing tough
>emission standards from man-made sources."
>Ronald Reagan

Are you actually quoting that non-ironically?

--
"Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS
crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in
TARP money, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in
bonuses, and paid no taxes? Yeah, me neither."

[Rick O]

Just seems unbelievable that such a ban would be accepted by the public... I
am amazed that a groundswell of outrage did not simply cause this to die
long ago.


"Paul Ciszek" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jcst1j$5ic$4...@reader1.panix.com...

[Bill Jones]

"Robin Sisler" <pres...@compugrade3d.com> wrote in news:jcsade$33p$1
@speranza.aioe.org:

> This is great news! More time to hoard!
>
>
> http://www.ecogeek.org/component/content/article/3663
>
>
> http://www.facebook.com/Numismatist
>

The incandescent light bulb ban is one more example of governmental
arrogance. Consumers should have the choice as what kind of light bulbs
they can use.

[Chris Clinkinbeard]

"CoolBreeze" <coolb...@freedomworks.com> wrote in message
news:jcsb06$4is$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> The enviomentalists are just shills for Al Gore's millions. These light
> bulbs dont even last as long as regular bulbs and cost $25.
>

Unfortunately, the last facility manufacturing these bulbs ceased operating
last year in anticipation of the coming ban. Hopefully they can get "back up
and running" if it is not cost prohibitive.

Yes, once again, the idiots in Washington, D.C., with the help of their
environmental terrorist group, the E.P.A. has made us less free. I'll stop
now before I go on a REALLY long rant about the state of leadership in this
country

[Mike Benveniste]

On 12/21/2011 10:08 AM, Paul Ciszek wrote:

> What, exactly, were they exposed to? If they were bombarded with
> neutrons, releasing them into circulation without testing them
> first would be very irresponsible.

http://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/medalsmementoes/dimes.htm

--
Mike Benveniste -- (Clarification Required)
Its name is Public opinion. It is held in reverence. It settles
everything. Some think it is the voice of God. -- Mark Twain

[mazorj]

"Mike Benveniste" <m...@murkyether.com> wrote in message
news:9lejus...@mid.individual.net...

I remember seeing the irradiated dimes at the 1964 World's Fair in NY. I
may have gotten one, but if I did it's gotten lost somewhere along the way.

I don't recall that the extremely short half-life was explained. Most
potential customers might have just walked away if they had known that the
"specialness" of their coin would be virtually gone in the next few
minutes.

[oly]

On Dec 21, 10:12 am, "Chris Clinkinbeard"
<chris.clinkinbe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "CoolBreeze" <coolbre...@freedomworks.com> wrote in message

The U.S. incandescent light bulb factories were simply disassembled,
put on railroad trains, moved to and reassembled in Mexico. The
regular 100 Watt light bulbs still sold at Lowes today are all labeled
"Mexico".

oly

[Steve Brownlee]

The CFL bulbs are made in China and they hurt my eyes. Also the CFLs are
way more dangerous to the environment than incandescents. People are not
properly disposing of these CFLs. Landfills will be filled with mercury.
President OBongo has no right to tell me what kind of light bulb to use.


"oly" <oly...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0d813db4-845f-4134...@n13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

[Jmski52]

It's ok for GE to ship all their production over to China and pay no taxes,
such that Jeff Immelt is made the jobs czar by the administration as reward
for his unwaivering support.

I keep wondering what it's going to take to get people in this country to
boot them all out and start with a new batch of politicians.

[Brian Schneider]

The Incandescent Light Bulb Ban is just another example of the decline of
America. Letting a group of monkeys tell everyone what they must do.

[First. Post]

On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 15:12:51 +0000 (UTC), nos...@nospam.com (Paul
Ciszek) wrote:

>
>In article <jcsb06$4is$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,
>CoolBreeze <coolb...@freedomworks.com> wrote:
>>The enviomentalists are just shills for Al Gore's millions. These light
>>bulbs dont even last as long as regular bulbs and cost $25.
>
>You need to find a better store; I pay a fraction of that,
>and I haven't had to replace any since I switched the current apartment
>over. (Before that, I was replacing incandescents pretty frequently.)

Just don't break one unless you are fond of mercury.
That's just great ain't it? CFLs may end up in dumps and landfills
depositing mercury into the soil but at least it will save you a few
bucks each month and make you feel great about saving the environment
yes? Well, at least until the mercury from the spent CFLs finally
soaks down into the ground water.

[Dr. Jean Tant]

"First. Post" <OccupiersDu...@invalid.net> wrote in message
news:58e4f7l4e4g7qv2il...@4ax.com...

> On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 15:12:51 +0000 (UTC), nos...@nospam.com (Paul
> Ciszek) wrote:
>
>
> Just don't break one unless you are fond of mercury.
> That's just great ain't it? CFLs may end up in dumps and landfills
> depositing mercury into the soil but at least it will save you a few
> bucks each month and make you feel great about saving the environment
> yes? Well, at least until the mercury from the spent CFLs finally
> soaks down into the ground water.
>

Far more mercury is released into the atmosphere by the burning of fossil
fuels to provide the
wasted electricity that standard bulbs use, which convert 90% of the energy
into heat.

[IHC08]

I've tried 3 CFL bulbs. Here were my results:



a.. 2 years ago - My circuit breaker blew as soon as I turned the lamp on. I
reset the breaker, plugged in a 100w bulb, and ignored CFLs for almost 2
years.

a.. 6 months ago - Decided to try CFLs again so I bought one and plugged it
into a newer lamp. Nothing blew up, but the bulb died inside a week. Chinese
quality control and I was out $5 bucks for 1 bulb.

a.. 2 months ago - Well the ban didn't go away like I was hoping so I tried
again. Dropped the damn thing while putting it into a chandelier. It broke.
I called the CDC and they said to evacuate my house until a team arrived.

[LibsFib]

Libtards has chased all manufacturing out of the country to their own
dismay. I forbid any of those "obama bulbs" in my house! I will stockpile
Incandescents if this goes any further. I'd like to see them hatch chickens
under those Dim and Twisted obama Bulbs. LibsFIB!

RON PAUL 2012!!!!

[Alabama Pete]

Efficient or not, it is insanely horrifying that liberal dummycrats think
goverment can make a law that is a better decision than people's OWN
decision. It’s the position that they are the parent and you the child and
these knot-heads are our employees!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For those who don‘t
understand that here’s another way of saying it; Obongo and the dummycrats
arent good enough to clean the toilets of the rest of us, much less make
decisions!!!!!

[Okpulot Taha]

OSHA, the FDA and the EPA set maximum safe levels of mercury exposure at
thresholds thousands of times less than this amount of mercury contained
in a CFL bulb. An example is for air 0.05 milligram per cubic meter
(roughly a cubic yard) is the maximum limit. A CFL bulb contains 1.0
milligram of mercury which, when exposed to air, far exceeds this
"safe" limit.

A pregnant mother drops and breaks a CFL bulb. She is instantly exposed
to a dose of mercury hundreds of times beyond a level considered safe.
She inhales and her baby in her belly is also exposed. Mercury exposure
to a fetus is devastating. Mercury both destroys and inhibits growth of
a nervous system in an unborn baby, specifically a spinal cord and a
brain. Chances of her baby surviving this exposure are very low. By some
miracle her baby survives, her baby will be born, essentially, brain
dead.

CFL bulbs are extremely dangerous to all people and extremely more
dangerous to developing babies in a mother's belly. Making this more
insidious is autism is directly linked to mercury poisoning. Autism can
develop after birth in young children through exposure to dangerous
levels of mercury, such as inhaling mercury vapor from a CFL bulb.
Mercury poisoning also destroys and inhibits brain growth in young
children.

Democrats, left liberals, environmentalists, will almost never speak
this truth. Those people more value their political agendas and their
environmental agendas, more value their agendas than they value the
health and welfare of babies and children along with all people. Those
leftist greenies will deliberately kill people in horrific ways to push
forward with their socialist agenda, and this includes Barack Obama who
is well aware of this extreme danger of CFL bulbs.

As I type, literally as I type, there are workers in China, which
include child laborers, who are dying from mercury poisoning simply so
left liberal greenies can have their CFL bulbs to satiate their toxic
and deathly socialist agenda.

In this thread I read many left liberals ranting about how stupid are
conservatives, how we are tyrants and ranting about we conservatives
wanting to destroy our environment. None of those left liberals in this
mention they are baby killers and homosexualists, never mention they
cause harm to children and bring tragedy to families. No, their agendas
are more important no matter the horrific price people must pay.

CFL bulbs are another thalidomide tragedy and another environmental
disaster at the hands of socialist greenies.

These are truths Barack Obama keeps well hidden from America and from
our world, in the name of socialism.

Okpulot Taha - Choctaw Nation

[Jack Bauer]

"Dr. Jean Tant" <jt...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:jctel2$vao$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

>
> Far more mercury is released into the atmosphere by the burning of fossil
> fuels to provide the
> wasted electricity that standard bulbs use, which convert 90% of the
> energy into heat.

Your a CRETIN........ Even if everything you thinks is TRUE about the
INFERIOR light-producing, mercury filled crappy new bulbs....(and it is NOT)
then surely the FREE MARKET doesn't need a GOVERNMENT BAN on the competition
right?....... These CFL's are so damned good they need a MONOPOLY...
right..... But eco-fascists want to control everything a person does,
doncha, fascist?................. You'll be sniffing around our shittting
habits soon..... Oh... and seeing you're THAT CONCERNED about "foreign
oil"... ....... then no doubt you are truly incensed about the dumbest
President in history punting a PIPELINE that not only provides thousands of
Americans with much needed JOBS, but also guarantees a massive new supply of
reliable and regular OIL imports..... You just cannot talk to lieberals....
they really are just too stooopid to live

[Okpulot Taha]

[Okpulot Taha]

CFL bulbs contain toxic mercury which is introduced into our environment,
foods and water. CFL bulbs makers in China suffer very high rates of toxic
mercury poisoning causing death. CFL bulbs require HAZMAT equipment for
cleanup after breakage. CFL bulbs do cause some to suffer epileptic
seizures. CFL bulbs cause some with sensitive skin to suffer "sunburn" -
think skin cancer. CFL bulbs when aged frequently explode into flames and
smoke. CFL bulbs emit infrared radiation which interferes with remote
controls and hell fire missiles. CFL bulbs radiation causes sun blocking
window film to glow in the dark. CFL bulbs dim to unusable at 40% of stated
lifetime; less than half of advertised lifetime. CFL bulbs cause harmonic
distortion which disrupts our electric power grids. CFL bulbs cost 50% more
in wages to produce so no American companies make those. CFL bulbs are not
made in America rather in China by children who die of mercury poisoning.
CFL bulbs being mandatory is a socialist assault upon our freedom of
choice. CFL bulbs are too dim for me to see to read. I HATE CFL BULBS!

[Gary]

Nothing gets the Luddite coin fossils to post here than a chance to
rant about a law signed by and praised by
George W Bush, blame it on President Obama, and call him racist names
like "Omammy."

The truth is that Energy independence and Security Act of 2007
increased the efficiency standards for light bulbs by 30% from
2012-2014. The new energy standards begin with 100 watt bulbs in 2012,
and end with 45 watt bulbs in 2014. There is also a list of exempt
bulb types that includes appliance lamps, rough service bulbs, 3-way,
colored lamps, and plant lights. In 2020 a second set efficiency
raising standards will take effect.

It is not going to be illegal to own incandescent bulbs. No one is
going to come to your house and take them away, or put you in jail for
owning them. There is no ban. America is simply moving to a more
efficient light bulb. You will still be able incandescent bulbs for
uses that are exempt from the new standards. Here’s the real kicker.
The Energy Independence and National Security Act was signed into law,
not by the “nanny state loving socialist Obama,” but by Republican
free market champion George W. Bush. When President Bush signed the
bill into law on December 19, 2007, he praised the energy efficiency
standards, “The bill also includes revisions to improve energy
efficiency in lighting and appliances. It adopts elements of the
executive order I signed requiring federal agencies to lead by example
in efficiency and renewable energy use.” This bill came into being as
the legislative response to George W. Bush’s Twenty in Ten challenge
during his 2007 State of the Union. In the address, Bush called on the
United States to improve fuel economy, and increase alternative fuels.
His goal was to cut gasoline consumption by 20% in 10 years. All of
the current right wing outrage over light bulbs is due to a proposal
by their own Republican president. It was their idea. Instead of
trying to pass this plan off as Democratic big government, they need
to look in the mirror. If they don’t like the new bulbs, they should
be blaming themselves, not Obama or the Democrats. It is typical that
Fox News would try to frame Republicans as fighting the heroic fight
against big government, without telling their viewers that they
themselves created the big government that they are now so outraged
about, so the next time you come across a right winger who is moaning
about the light bulb ban, let them know that could have all the
incandescent bulbs that they wanted if they would not have voted for
Republican George W. Bush, the energy efficient light bulb president.

Gary Dorman

[Bernice Durdan-Rowland]

I've had enough already of goverment getting into our personal lives. By the
time these curly bulbs come up with the full amount of light, I'm ready to
leave the room - and they NEVER give you the amount of light as the regular
bulbs! The led flashlights give you more light than the curly bulbs!!
Besides that, we are keeping the Chinese employed !!

Get Obama the hell out of the White House and take his liberal, communistic
friends and czars with him. That Cass Susteen, the regulation czar ought to
go out and "dig ditches" - maybe he can do that right !!!!!!! Disgusted
!!!!!!!

[Tommy Ezell]

I was listening to Glenn Beck the other day, and he was going on about what
an incredibly stupid idea those new, poisonous light bulbs are. His monolog
reminded me to go out and buy about 6 more boxes of 100-watt bulbs before
the ban went into effect on January 1. I went to the Dollar Store, and
there wasn’t one 100-watt bulb in the store. So I went to Wal-Mart. They
had two boxes left, and I snatched them up. When I mentioned it to the
cashier, she said: "It’s amazing. We put out ten cases of them this
morning, and they’re all gone. And it’s not even noon yet."

That was good to know. Apparently, the American people aren’t as stupid and
uninformed as they think we are. Either that, or a whole lot of people are
paying attention to The Man On The Radio.

[Arizona Conservative]

I think I should reiterate things here by throwing in my two cents. The
government has absolutely no business involving itself in my personal life
to such an extent! Our rights are being carved away right beneath us by the
very people who we have foolishly elected decade after decade. Wake up
America!

[Steve Truitt]

This entire light bulb issue has got to be one of the dumbest and most
corrupt moves by our government that I have ever seen. IF these babbling
idiotic so called congressional wizards would just THINK for a change they
would come to the conclusion that the curly cue bulbs should be a summertime
usage as it does not emit any heat, and the incandescent bulb a wintertime
usage as it helps to heat. I change my bulb where I sit each evening to do
some sewing or reading with the seasons. Summer…the sun is shining later and
the dimmer lightbulb can be turned on earlier to crank it up. Winter…it’s
dark early and I want LIGHT and HEAT, thus the incandescent. Now…what is so
difficult about this.

We certainly DO NOT NEED LAWS and bureaucrats telling us which is better
when and making a fortune off of insider trading in the process. Very few of
these people are looking out for their citizenry. They are a bunch of lying
buffoons making money off of the people they are supposed to be helping.

"Tommy Ezell" <tez...@southwesternbell.net> wrote in message
news:jctlg9$gdf$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

[Dano]

How much testing�s been done on these bulbs anyway?

I was at my Grandmas the other week and she insisted she smelled something
like burning mercury, so it turn's out one of these new bulbs had burned
out, and on the material where one tube goes in the base was a brownish
black char that comes from overheating.Also, the tube, about a half inch
from the base, had a little MELTED hole in it, as if someone stuck it with
a super hot penny nail and we all know how much heat it takes to melt
glass. I talked to some older electricians in the city (Tunica,
Mississippi) and they say these bulbs are suspected of causing a number of
fires.

[Tzion]

BUSH DID NOT MAKE THIS LAW. PRES. BUSH STAND'S FOR FREEDOM

[Tzion]

Here's what I'd like to know. Why do so many enviromentalists support the
CFL? Sure it's more efficient but it's also more expensive and less
disposable. There filled with mercury for crying out loud! Why is President
Obama trying to poison us? I predict that the incandesent light bulb
factorys will reopen and we will have American bulbs that the people want.

[Jason]

"Bill Jones" <bills...@tampa.rr.com> wrote in message
news:jcsvqm$ouv$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>
>
> The incandescent light bulb ban is one more example of governmental
> arrogance. Consumers should have the choice as what kind of light bulbs
> they can use.



choice only applies to aborting babies, not buying lightbulbs.

My Ebay Auctions
http://www.ebay.com/sch/relicsncoins/m.html

[Gary]

On Dec 21, 4:06 pm, "Bernice Durdan-Rowland" <patrio...@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

>
> Get Obama the hell out of the White House and take his liberal, communistic
> friends and czars with him. That Cass Susteen, the regulation czar ought to
> go out and "dig ditches" - maybe he can do that right !!!!!!! Disgusted
> !!!!!!!

President Bush Signs H.R. 6, the Energy Independence and Security Act
of 2007
12-19-2007.


THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, all. Mr. Secretary, thank you for that
introduction. We're all pleased to be here at the Department of
Energy. I particularly want to thank the employees here for their
daily efforts to help our country meet its energy needs. Thanks for
your hard work. Sam, thank you for your leadership.

As Sam mentioned, I firmly believe this country needs to have a
comprehensive energy strategy, and I appreciate the members of
Congress for understanding that as well. Two years ago I was pleased
to stand with members -- many of whom are here -- to sign a bill that
was the first major energy security legislation in more than a decade.
At the time I recognized that we needed to go even further. And so in
my State of the Union I proposed an aggressive plan to reduce oil
consumption of gasoline by 20 percent over 10 years.

Today we make a major step with the Energy Independence and Security
Act. We make a major step toward reducing our dependence on oil,
confronting global climate change, expanding the production of
renewable fuels and giving future generations of our country a nation
that is stronger, cleaner and more secure. (Applause.)

I do welcome members of the Cabinet who've joined us. I particularly
want to thank the Speaker and the Leader. I appreciate your leadership
on this important issue. (Applause.) Speaker Pelosi is here with
Congressman Steny Hoyer, House Majority Leader; welcome, Mr. Leader.
(Applause.) Leader Reid has brought members of the Senate with him:
Senator Inouye, Senator Bingaman, Senator Stevens -- I think that's
Senator Domenici there is disguise -- (laughter and applause) --
looking pretty handsome, isn't he? (Applause.) I appreciate
Congressman Dingell and Congressman Markey, Congressman Gordon --
these are all leaders on their respective committees that help bring
this bill to my desk. I also want to welcome all the other members of
Congress who have joined us. (Applause.)

One of the most serious long-term challenges facing our country is
dependence on oil -- especially oil from foreign lands. It's a serious
challenge. And members of Congress up here understand the challenge
and so do I. Because this dependence harms us economically through
high and volatile prices at the gas pump; dependence creates pollution
and contributes to greenhouse gas admissions [sic]. It threatens our
national security by making us vulnerable to hostile regimes in
unstable regions of the world. It makes us vulnerable to terrorists
who might attack oil infrastructure.

The legislation I am signing today will address our vulnerabilities
and our dependence in two important ways. First, it will increase the
supply of alternative fuel sources. Proposed an alternative fuel
standard earlier this year. This standard would require fuel producers
to include a certain amount of alternative fuels in their products.
This standard would create new markets for foreign products used to
produce these fuels. This standard would increase our energy security
by making us less vulnerable to instability -- to the instability of
oil prices on the world market.

The bill I sign today takes a significant step because it will require
fuel producers to use at least 36 billion gallons of biofuel in 2022.
This is nearly a fivefold increase over current levels. It will help
us diversify our energy supplies and reduce our dependence on oil.
It's an important part of this legislation, and I thank the members of
Congress for your wisdom. (Applause.)

Second, the legislation also -- will also reduce our demand for oil by
increasing fuel economy standards. (Applause.) Last January, I called
for the first statutory increase in fuel economy standards for
automobiles since they were enacted in 1975. The bill I'm about to
sign delivers on that request. It specifies a national standard of 35
miles per gallon by 2020, which will increase fuel economy standards
by 40 percent and save billions of gallons of fuel. This bill also
includes an important reform that I believe is essential to making
sure that we realize this strategy. It allows the Department of
Transportation to issue what are known as "attribute-based standards,"
which will assure that increased fuel efficiency does not come at the
expense of automobile safety. This is an important part of this bill,
and again I thank the members for taking the lead. (Applause.)

The bill also includes revisions to improve energy efficiency in
lighting and appliances. It adopts elements of the executive order I
signed requiring federal agencies to lead by example in efficiency and
renewable energy use.

Taken together, all these measures will help us improve our
environment. It is estimated that these initiatives could reduce
projected CO2 emissions by billions of metric tons. At the U.N.
climate change meeting in Bali last week our nation promised to pursue
new, quantifiable actions to reduce carbon emissions. Today we're
doing just that. The legislation I'm signing today will lead to some
of the largest CO2 emission cuts in our nation's history. (Applause.)

The legislation I'm about to sign should say to the American people
that we can find common ground on critical issues. And there's more we
can accomplish together. New technologies will bring about a new era
of energy. So I appreciate the fact that Congress, in the omnibus
spending bill that I'm going to sign later on, recognizes that new
technologies will help usher in a better quality of life for our
citizens. And so we're going to spend money on new research for
alternative feedstocks for ethanol. I mean, we understand the hog
growers are getting nervous because the price of corn is up. But we
also believe strongly that research will enable us to use wood chips
and switchgrass and biomass to be able to develop the ethanol
necessary to help us realize the vision outlined in this bill.

I appreciate very much the fact that we're going to fund additional
research on new battery technologies to power plug-in hybrids. We're
spending money on innovative ways to capture solar power. We're making
-- providing incentives for nuclear energy. If we're serious about
making sure we grow our economy and deal with greenhouse gases, we
have got to expand nuclear power. (Applause.)

It is going to take time to transition to this new era. And we're
still going to need hydrocarbons. And I hope the Congress will
continue to open access to domestic energy sources -- certain parts of
the outer continental shelf in ANWR. And to protect us against
disruptions in our oil supply, I ask Congress to double the current
capacity of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve.

With these steps, particularly in the bill I'm about to sign, we're
going to help American consumers a lot. We'll help them by
diversifying our supplies, which will help lower energy prices. We'll
strengthen our security by helping to break our dependence on foreign
oil. We'll do our duty to future generations by addressing climate
change.

And so I thank the members of Congress. I appreciate the fact that
we've worked together, that we can show what's possible in addressing
the big issues facing our nation. This is a good bill and I'm pleased
to sign it.

(The bill was signed.) (Applause.)

[Rav]

The Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007, which is the source of
the phase out of incandescent light bulbs, was signed into law by George
W. Bush, a Republican. Barack Obama was not president then. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Independence_and_Security_Act_of_2007

[Dr. Jean Tant]

But it's OK for the government to tell a woman she must continue with an
unwanted pregnancy?

Ok for the government to tell a husband that GOVERNMENT, not the husband,
has the right to
disconnect his hopeless vegetable wife from life support (Remember Terry
Schavio)

It's OK for the government to decide who a gay or lesbian person can marry?


"Alabama Pete" <psm...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:jctjca$avh$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

[PatriotfromTN]

Rav <Pa...@cais.com> wrote in news:jcto89$4vi$1...@dont-email.me:

This is a lie. President Bush would not of signed this opressice law.

[AlamoTeaParty]

"Dr. Jean Tant" <jt...@flash.net> wrote in message

news:jctpd9$p74$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> But it's OK for the government to tell a woman she must continue with an
> unwanted pregnancy?
>
> Ok for the government to tell a husband that GOVERNMENT, not the husband,
> has the right to
> disconnect his hopeless vegetable wife from life support (Remember Terry
> Schavio)
>
> It's OK for the government to decide who a gay or lesbian person can
> marry?
>

The goverment has a right to stop the killing of babys and stopping
homosexuality which
God has deemed a DEATH PENALTY crime.



http://www.sanantonioteaparty.us/

[First. Post]

According to the cite the bill was written by a democrat, passed by
all but 4 democrats and lauded by liberals everywhere.

And why is it that you ignorant sycophants believe that conservatives
agrteed with every single thing Bush ever did?
Personally I never cared for that bill, the first bailout (also
authored by a democrat and lauded by democrats and liberals
nationwide), "No Child Left Behind" (also written by a democrat and
cheered by the left when signed initially into law) and Bush's stance
on illegal immigration.
You see we aren't like you simple minded drones that blindly follow
lock step with every single thing your glorious leader or party does.
Funny how you jerks always claim to be so "open minded" and "free
thinking" when apparently you can't wipe your own asses unless you
think the party would approve of it.

[American Quilter]

This is great! I’ve been stockpiling incandescents for two years, thinking
they’d be unavailable starting next year. I can’t believe the Republicans
worked this around the Democrat Nazis!

[R.L. Morel]

"LibsFib" <Lib...@nationalvanguard.org> wrote in
news:jctj0c$a8k$1...@speranza.aioe.org:

I dont have an issue with the lights themselves. If people want to use
them then that is there business if they want to pay the money and a
manufacturer thinks they can make money by producing them. What I take
issue with is goverment bureaucrats taking my money via confiscatory
taxes, TELLING me how to spend the money they leave me, then passing
legislation to DRIVE up the cost of energy so we are FORCED to spend
more money to drive our cars, heat our homes and turn on our lights,
whether they be incadesent or CFL. These bastards think they are doing
us a big favor because they think they know best, and are trying to
twist our arms to accept their utopian crap. The libtards think if
energy costs go up high enough, their plans to harness unicorn
flatulence or whatever will become economically viable.

Well I dont care to take part in their damned experiments. If people
want these CFL lights in the marketplace as an alternative to make their
homes more energy efficient then I think is is fine and would never say
boo to anyone so inclined. Actually, my issue is not even residential
lighting. Making citizens purchase stuff we don't want and don't need is
NOT going to solve any kind of energy shortage. It is the equivalent of
selling carbon credits or putting a magnetic sticker on the back of a
car. It is Jimmy Carter wearing sweaters and telling us to turn our
thermostats down.

So to make my point that forcing all of us to use these things, have to
pay MORE money to buy them (even though most of us have found they don't
last nearly as long as the goverment says they do)

[TeapartyFred]

Bush may of signed the law but it doesn't matter. Anything I do NOW that is
anti govt. is anti Obongo because he's in the WH now. Illegally, but there
until he's either voted out, arrested or put in a straight jacket and
carried out. Bush did a lot of things in his 2nd term that made me regret
voting for him, but the other option was Kerry and knowing then what I know
now I would of made the same choice. Bush was a total lazy, incompetent 2nd
term president. He caved to the liberals on everything. Now we find out Lara
Bush was really a fake conservative.I don't believe there is one single
politician that I like or trust right now. None!!!!! I do trust Sarah Paline
and Allen West, but they aren't running, at least not yet. Dr Paul is good
on the FED and the Jews but I dont think he can be elected.



"First. Post" <OccupiersDu...@invalid.net> wrote in message
news:u0r4f79fimfd10a68...@4ax.com...

[Sand88]

"LibsFib" <Lib...@nationalvanguard.org> wrote in
news:jctj0c$a8k$1...@speranza.aioe.org:

Eliminate the Dept of Energy, Education, Interor, Transportation, Home
land Security, Commerce, Federal Reserve. Fire all Federal parasites
that work at the goverment. . How much would that save? These un-
Constitutional Departments and their czars and parasite employees
deserve to suffer.

The pain and suffering brought on by goverment at all levels is
destroying our Republic and crushing the spirit of hard working
Americans. It's about time the goverment class (i.e. parasites) have the
stress of unemployment thrown into there laps.

The richest counties in America are around D.C. They are rich not
because they earned it. Quite the contrary. They are rich because they
pass laws to STEAL from the rest of the citizenry.

To add insult, the goverment class does not stop at stealing, no. They
take joy in creating endless rules and regulations to control every
aspect of our lives. You see, they are smarter and better than
"regular" Americans.

I pray to Jesus this insanity will start to end, starting January 21,
2013.

[Alabama Pete]

The day the light bulb Nazis decided to try to force me to use those pos
bulbs was the day I began buying 100 watt bulbs by the case. Buy one get one
free, a good sale, I bought everything on the shelf. I have enough bulbs to
last 3 generations. I won’t say how many I have now in storage but I can
assure you, the number is astronomical. I detest those other bulbs. I’m
stocked up up on enough 60, 75 and 100 watt to last for generations.
It just made me feel good to buy them. Each time I paid I said to myself....
Fuck you Barrack Hussein Obama!!!

[rcrngroup]

"TeapartyFred" <fred...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:jctrfk$tf7$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> Bush may of signed the law but it doesn't matter. Anything I do NOW that
> is anti govt. is anti Obongo because he's in the WH now. Illegally, but
> there until he's either voted out, arrested or put in a straight jacket
> and carried out. Bush did a lot of things in his 2nd term that made me
> regret voting for him, but the other option was Kerry and knowing then
> what I know now I would of made the same choice. Bush was a total lazy,
> incompetent 2nd term president. He caved to the liberals on everything.
> Now we find out Lara Bush was really a fake conservative.I don't believe
> there is one single politician that I like or trust right now. None!!!!! I
> do trust Sarah Paline and Allen West, but they aren't running, at least
> not yet. Dr Paul is good on the FED and the Jews but I dont think he can
> be elected.
>
>
>

Dumber than dirt, pandering, capitulating dumb ass GW Bush strikes again.
Fortunately we had enough Tea Party winners in 2010 and should complete take
over in 2012 to hopefully negate & overturn some of the socialist gubmint
fiascos like this.

Outside of OMammy & Carter, GW Bush is in a tight 3-way race for the most
damage inflicted on America by their socialist big gubmint, globalist
policies. IMO, GW Bush could of gone down as one of our greatest presidents,
if only he of had the intelligence to govern as a conservative and not
pandering & appeasing to demoRATs & Moslems.

[Cherokee1]

I layed in a 20 year supply but I’m not bummed about it. I started laying
in extras back around 2005 when I started seeing GE bulbs made in China. I
bought only US and Mexican made bulbs and now GE has closed their last US
plant. I figured that 20 years would give me enough time to set up some
tools to make my own bulbs if Congress couldn’t get it right.

So my plan is still operable since I have no intention of buying Chinese
freeking bulbs.

[sherriemae]

I’m still going to buy some more before the end of the year just in case. So
far here in northern Alabama we haven’t had quality problems yet. The
grocery store has a generic brand that only costs $1.15 for a pack of 4
bulbs. Walmart has a generic brand and the GE brand. I never buy the ones
made by GE because they are completely sold out to and supporting Obummer.

[NoGreens]

The Green Movement is essentially a religion. The problem is this religion
gets a seat on the Cabinet and Omammy is the mesiaash.

This religion gets to dictate to other religions who don't believe as it
does.

America is freedom of religion, which the dummycrats abhore.

What's most troubling to me, outside of the loathesome tactics the Greenies
use, is their total contempt for private property rights.
As they say, Green (environmentalist) is the new Red (Communist).

[Nobama]

Jmski52 <Jms...@collectors.com> wrote in
news:jctcjl$qc0$1...@speranza.aioe.org:

> It's ok for GE to ship all their production over to China and pay no
> taxes, such that Jeff Immelt is made the jobs czar by the
> administration as reward for his unwaivering support.
>
> I keep wondering what it's going to take to get people in this country
> to boot them all out and start with a new batch of politicians.
>

Nothing speaks of the hypocrisy of Obongo and the libs as much as their
global warming religious fervor. these fools laugh at those with faith
in Jesus, and yet live and die by their faith in something even more
ridiculous...their god-like government.

Given the choice between worshipping Jesus or worshipping the likes of
Al Gore, it speaks volumes that the libs choose the latter. at least
those choosing the former can say it can't be proven their god is a fat,
disgusting politician who's more interested in his own wallet than the
fate of the country.

[Mike Benveniste]

On 12/21/2011 1:33 PM, mazorj wrote:

> I remember seeing the irradiated dimes at the 1964 World's Fair in NY. I
> may have gotten one, but if I did it's gotten lost somewhere along the way.

I have one purchased from Ken Barr:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.collecting.coins/msg/8d7a572fe2555f74

--
Mike Benveniste -- m...@murkyether.com (Clarification Required)
You don't have to sort of enhance reality. There is nothing
stranger than truth. -- Annie Leibovitz

[Nigger]

"Gary" <garydor...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:f742c6ec-0ec3-4ba7...@g41g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>Nothing gets the Luddite coin fossils to post here than a chance to
>rant about a law signed by and praised by
>George W Bush, blame it on President Obama, and call him racist names
>like "Omammy."

now you all listen up ya here, I'ses getting fed up of all this here
stereotyping ya boys and gals is directing towards us blacks - you white
honkey trailer trash crackers needs to stop being so goddman racist ya here?
now when does you ever here one of us blacks going racist on your white
asses? never that's when - why? cause we is bigger than that ya hear me - oh
yeah you better believe it suckers. Now don't you go trying to accuse me of
no racist shit, cracker - no siree, I is just a concerned citizen who is
getting sick and tired off your loud white-trash "humor" - which is as funny
as a bullfrog humping a turtle, if you know I means. Now I ain't gonna rant
no more, I just wanted to evil sons of bitches to know how damaging your
racist comments can be - we done nothing to you, you ugly rednecks
sons-of-bitches. fo' sure.

[Terry Pogue]

"Paul Ciszek" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jcst1j$5ic$4...@reader1.panix.com...
>
> In article <jcsb06$4is$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,
> CoolBreeze <coolb...@freedomworks.com> wrote:
>>The enviomentalists are just shills for Al Gore's millions. These light
>>bulbs dont even last as long as regular bulbs and cost $25.
>
> You need to find a better store; I pay a fraction of that,
> and I haven't had to replace any since I switched the current apartment
> over. (Before that, I was replacing incandescents pretty frequently.)
>
>>"Approximately 80% of our air pollution stems from hydrocarbons released
>>by
>>vegetation, so let's not go overboard in setting and enforcing tough
>>emission standards from man-made sources."
>>Ronald Reagan
>
> Are you actually quoting that non-ironically?
>
> --
Here's what Reagan said, in September 1980: "Approximately 80 percent of our
air pollution stems from hydrocarbons released by vegetation, so let's not
go overboard in setting and enforcing tough emission standards from man-made
sources.''
A month later, he denied what he had said: "First of all, I didn't say 80
percent. I said 92 percent, 93 percent, pardon me. And I didn't say air
pollution, I said oxides of nitrogen, And I am right. Growing and decaying
vegetation in this land are responsible for 93 percent of the oxides of
nitrogen.''

OK. In the first place, hydrocarbons are not an air pollution problem. Trees
decay into nitrous oxide, which are not a serious health threat. On the
other hand, oxides of nitrogen are a serious problem, and are regulated by
the EPA. But, of course, Reagan's "facts'' had little to do with the truth.
Industrial sources -- not trees -- are responsible for 65 percent to 90
percent of the oxides of nitrogen in this country.

Source: Ronald Reagan's Reign of Error, based on information gleaned from
the Sierra Club, the L.A. Times, and the Environmental Defense Fund.

[Paul Ciszek]

In article <jctrrb$u42$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,

Sand88 <sa...@freerepublic.com> wrote:
>"LibsFib" <Lib...@nationalvanguard.org> wrote in
>news:jctj0c$a8k$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>
>> Libtards has chased all manufacturing out of the country to their own
>> dismay. I forbid any of those "obama bulbs" in my house! I will
>> stockpile Incandescents if this goes any further. I'd like to see them
>> hatch chickens under those Dim and Twisted obama Bulbs. LibsFIB!
>>
>> RON PAUL 2012!!!!
>
>Eliminate the Dept of Energy, Education, Interor, Transportation, Home
>land Security, Commerce, Federal Reserve. Fire all Federal parasites
>that work at the goverment. . How much would that save? These un-
>Constitutional Departments and their czars and parasite employees
>deserve to suffer.

Where do you intend to get nuclear weapons once you have eliminated
the Department of Energy? The ones we have now go bad over time and
need continuous replacing. If you expect the private sector to make
them for sale to the Federal government, well, it may turn out that
there are other customers willing to buy them as well. And you
wouldn't want the government interferring with a business deal, right?

--
"Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS
crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in
TARP money, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in
bonuses, and paid no taxes? Yeah, me neither."

[Jerry Dennis]

On Dec 21, 4:58 pm, Gary <garydorman8...@sbcglobal.net> wrote, in
part:

> Nothing gets the Luddite coin fossils to post here than a chance to
> rant about a law signed by and praised by
> George W Bush, blame it on President Obama, and call him racist names
> like "Omammy."

Gary, aren't you one of us "coin fossils?" The OP cross-posted to us
and alt.fan.rush.limbaugh. I only responded, initially, to bring some
humor into the discussion. From the looks of things, I set off a
political flame war. I should have trimmed the header and just left
it with us. Next time...

Jerry
One of the "coin fossils."

[Lee Curtis]

How does one "stop" homosexuality?

[oly]

"Luddite coin fossil" - I resemble that remark.

All Hail King Ludd!!! Let's throw our sabots in the machinery!!!
Where's my pitchfork!!!

oly

[TexasProf]

"Lee Curtis" <clee...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:YeydndPxHuNJ8G7T...@giganews.com...

One stops homosexuality by not pandering to it, addressing the sin,
and seeking spiritual and emotional help to those afflicted.

Nowadays, it is culturally acceptable to include homosexuals in
television shows and work places. President Obama panders to the
homosexual community, and the final straw is allowing homosexuals
in the military. Heterosexuals are now confined
to the ordinance of man-made laws to protect the so-called rights of
these deluded creatures. Our sit coms and various other media formats
are riddled with their seductive and sensual influences. On the American
Broadcasting Company, a "comedy" titled "Modern Family" makes mirth of a
two homosexuals who have adopted a child! How
confusing this must be to our children!

If you are a normal person who dares make a joke about homosexuals, you
are likely to be sued for slander. If you are an employer, the excessive
law and authority of men will have you pinched between a rock and a hard
place. Now, we have laws that protect the ungodly and restrict the wise
and prudent! Judges in the courtrooms are told they can't keep the Ten
Commandments posted publicly because it is an offense to so many! What?
Oh say it isn't true! We are living in the shadow of the Beast upon
which the harlot has seated herself!


In his letter to the Romans, Apostle Paul writes,

For even though they knew GOD, they did not honor Him as GOD or give
thanks; but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish
heart was darkened.

Professing to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the
incorruptible GOD for an image in the form of corruptible man and of
birds, four footed animals and crawling creatures.

Therefore, GOD gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity,
that their bodies might be dishonored among them. They exchanged the
truth of GOD for a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather
than the Creator, who is blessed forever. AMEN

Employers and Government today are forced to protect the rights of the
sinful and immoral, disarming them of their right to uphold what is
right and just in God's view. In a land where men boast of Pride and
Freedom, the perverted and ungodly ones gain strength and solidarity. We
continue to make concessions with the ungodly all the while their kind
increases by choice rather than procreation. Their increasing numbers
diminish any chances of survivability for the human race. Therefore, it
is logical to accept God's Judgments of their alternative lifestyles and
recognize the necessity for uncompromising adherence to God's statutes
and ordinances. They have diminished any hope remaining for us who are
called because they have thoroughly muddied the waters. Should the
unnatural replace the natural? Should cloning replace sex?


The freedoms that we have in America have become the very source of our
undoing. While the disillusionment of reality, hypocrisy, heresy and
blasphemy are on the rise; those with a feeble faith are barely able to
lift up their standard. They're too overwhelmed and too weak to stand
against perversions of truth. They have laid down their swords
(principles) and have allowed their enemies to invade and march over
them. Most carry on believing the lies dictated to them by their chosen
stewards (authority).


Rather than recognizing that homsexuality comes from SIN, perverted
influence and environment, they declare they were born that way! Some
claim that their homosexuality IS A GIFT FROM GOD! BLASPHEMY!


If the Called and Chosen, the godly ones tolerate ungodliness then what
was the point of Jesus sacrifice? How can anyone possibly justify
unnatural function over the natural? Do you not know that you who
believe this crap bring judgment and plagues upon us all! Jesus said,
Love your enemies. He did not say, 'sleep with them!' God created Adam
and Eve - not Adam and Steve!


It is not the Father's will that you should practice what is unnatural
but that you should accept what is natural. No man is perfect and
neither is the female kind. We are created as opposites like the glove
and hand. We were created in such a way that without practicing what is
natural, we would simply cease to exist. No tangible, philosophical view
can justify homosexuality yet; it has existed long before Christ and
even until now. For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge, His wrath has been
decreed.

[Gary]

On Dec 22, 11:22 am, Jerry Dennis <JDen1...@aol.com> wrote:

Indeed. The same topic was posted in the PCGS forum, but as you can
see, when it was pointed out that BUSH
signed the bill, and commented how this was a national security issue
to have a national policy to minimize how much
energy dollars are sent to countries that hate America, pandemonium
erupted.

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=840629

[Lee Curtis]

TexasProf wrote:

>
> "Lee Curtis" <clee...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:YeydndPxHuNJ8G7T...@giganews.com...
> > AlamoTeaParty wrote:
> >
> > >
> >>"Dr. Jean Tant" <jt...@flash.net> wrote in message
> > > news:jctpd9$p74$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> >>> But it's OK for the government to tell a woman she must continue
> >>> with an unwanted pregnancy?
> > > >
> >>> Ok for the government to tell a husband that GOVERNMENT, not the
> >>> husband, has the right to disconnect his hopeless vegetable wife
> >>> from life support (Remember Terry Schavio)
> > > >
> >>> It's OK for the government to decide who a gay or lesbian person
> >>> can marry?
> > > >
> > > The goverment has a right to stop the killing of babys and
> > > stopping homosexuality which God has deemed a DEATH PENALTY crime.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > How does one "stop" homosexuality?
> >
> >
> One stops homosexuality by not pandering to it, addressing the sin,
> and seeking spiritual and emotional help to those afflicted.

That was apparently tried in biblical times and
even THEY could not eliminate homosexuality.

>
> Nowadays, it is culturally acceptable to include homosexuals in
> television shows and work places.

That is because gay people exist and excluding
them from the media didn't make them go away.

> President Obama panders to the
> homosexual community, and the final straw is allowing homosexuals
> in the military.

Gays have always been in the media - all we
are doing now is not kicking them out and losing
all the money spent on their training.

> Heterosexuals are now confined
> to the ordinance of man-made laws to protect the so-called rights of
> these deluded creatures. Our sit coms and various other media formats
> are riddled with their seductive and sensual influences. On the
> American Broadcasting Company, a "comedy" titled "Modern Family"
> makes mirth of a two homosexuals who have adopted a child! How
> confusing this must be to our children!
>
> If you are a normal person who dares make a joke about homosexuals,
> you are likely to be sued for slander. If you are an employer, the
> excessive law and authority of men will have you pinched between a
> rock and a hard place. Now, we have laws that protect the ungodly and
> restrict the wise and prudent! Judges in the courtrooms are told they
> can't keep the Ten Commandments posted publicly because it is an
> offense to so many! What?

How would you react if a judge posted an Islamic
or Hindu document on his courtroom wall? Or had witnesses
swear on a Quran?

[Jerry Dennis]

I love this group. Merry Christmas to all.

Jerry
Screw the ACLU.

[Gary]

Why the remark against the ACLU?

[Jim_Higgins]

Time to do a keyword KF on this way, way, way OT subject.

[Dr Jean Tant]

Looks like Jerry has been watching Fox News. There is no ACLU "war against
Christmas." This is fiction
made up by Fox News and talk radio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBig928zYgY


"Jerry Dennis" <JDen...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:5f2abea5-2cf9-437d...@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com...

[Craig Chilton]

On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 13:34:39 -0600,
"TexasProf" <inv...@baylor.edu> wrote:

> Nowadays, it is culturally acceptable to include homosexuals in
> television shows and work places.

Gee! JUST as much as it is to include left-handed people, who
ALSO are in the minority.

> President Obama...

...is moderately fair to...

> ...the homosexual community...

...but needs to do a lot MORE.

But -- KUDOS to him for...

> ...allowing homosexuals in the military.

That was EXCELLENT -- as NBC Nightly News PROVED last night
in a very well-done segment that made it clear that there has been
nothing but POSITIVE response to that!

> On the American Broadcasting Company, a comedy entitled,
> "Modern Family," makes mirth of a two homosexuals who have
> adopted a child!

Good for them. It's FUN to watch BIGOT like you getting *omelet*
on your faces on ALL fronts!

> If you are a normal person who dares make a joke about homo-
> sexuals, you are likely to be sued for slander. If you are an employ-
> er, the ... law ... will have you pinched between a rock and a hard
> place.

GOOD!! The SAME fairness was done on behalf of the blacks, who
ALSO had been discriminated-against by BRAINLESS lowlifes like you.

> Now, we have laws that protect the ungodly...

"Ungodly?!?" Since WHEN, in this FREE country, does *anyone*
have to believe in God? And what in the world difference does it
make WHAT any person happens to believe or not believe pertaining
to religion? You TRULY are FAR from being the brightest birthday-
cake candle in the Searchlight Shop!

> Judges in the courtrooms are told they can't keep the Ten
> Commandments posted publicly because it is an offense to so many!

ACTUALLY, that would be because such a posting would comprise
an UNconstitutional ENDORSEMENT of Judeo-Christianity (9 of the
10 Commandments were repeated in the NEW Testament) on PUBLIC
grounds. HOWEVER -- if those SAME Ten Commandments were to be
displayed on ALL of the nation's PRIVATE lands and buildings, they
would be so abundant that trying to get out of view of them would
be as difficult as it would be to get out of sight of corn in the Iowa
countryside in July! And NO one, including the ACLU, would complain.
And it would be TOTALLY Constitutional! But the BUTTINSKYINSH
RRR Cultists are too bone-DUMB to be able to comprehend something
as OBVIOUS as that!

> Oh say it isn't true! We are living in the shadow of the Beast upon
> which the harlot has seated herself!

ROTFL!!! You are FUNNIER than hell !!

<Biblical references flushed. You need to be aware that
about ONE-FOURTH of Americans are NOT Christians, and
to them, the Bible is *meaningless*, and they owe it abso-
lutely NOTHING!>

BTW... I am a FAIR-minded and NON-obtrusive Christian.

Try reading THIS. You might actually LEARN something! ---

http://www.ChristianEgalitarian.com/Lie.html

> Employers and Government today are forced to protect the

> rights of the...

...ALL people, EQUALLY -- except that they still need to
pass ENDA (Employment Non-Discrimination Act), reinstate the
Fairness Doctrine for the media, and END that hateful and irra-
tional EXCLUSION of same-sex couples from marriage in ALL 50
states!

> In a land where men boast of Pride and Freedom...

..FAIRNESS should prevail. And I can GUARANTEE you that
there are enough egalitarians like me working to accomplish that,
that it WILL soon be the case!

> We continue to...

...be SENSIBLE enough to regard sex to be as much (and actually
much MORE!) for RECreation than for...

> ...procreation.

> [The] increasing numbers [of egalitarians]...

...ensure that America WILL *soon* become a Bigotry-FREE Zone!

> Should cloning replace sex?

THAT'LL **never** happen!! Sex is the world's GREATES and
FAVORITE form of recreation!! But it is very PROBABLE that human
cloning WILL soon be a reality, and that it will JOIN the ranks of the
many other ways that people who choose to -- gay OR straight --
can have kids. Such as surrogate mothers, IVF, artificial insemination,
etc.

> The freedoms that we have in America have become the very

> source of our...

GREATNESS as a nation. And the envy of much of the rest
of the world, *except* for the even FREER and more-advanced
countries in Northern Europe. And Canada!! WE still need to get
RID of the last vestiges of Puritanical bigotry and prudishness
that still to varying degrees plague and INFEST the USA.

FORTUNATELY, now that they are *vastly* OUTNUMBERED,
the loathsome and ignorant RRR Cultists are...

> ...too overwhelmed and too weak to stand against [the] truth.

> They have laid down their swords ([bigoted] principles) and have
> allowed their enemies...

...i.e., FAIR-minded and SENSIBLE people...

> ...to invade and march over them.

> Rather than recognizing that homsexuality...

...is every bit as NORMAL as heterosexuality is, they KNOW
that...

> they were born that way!

For example... THOUGHT QUESTION: At what age did *you*
CHOOSE to be heterosexual? It's NO different for the gays.
Just like the straights, they all were BORN either gay or bisexual.
ALL sexual orientations are variations of NORMALCY.

> What was the point of Jesus' sacrifice?

To forgive us for ACTUAL sins, and to grant eternal life to all
who believe in Him.

[Jerry Dennis]

Hey, Jim. Haven't seen you for a while. How are you doing?

Jerry
We're already OT, why not really go OT.

[Jerry Dennis]

No, no, my friends. I subscribe to the Founding Fathers' idea that
the government will not ESTABLISH a national religion, "Congress shall
make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting
the free exercise thereof..." The ACLU will dump all over a school
district for invocations during a graduation ceremony (attempting to
stifle the "free exercise thereof") but doesn't have the gonads to
attack Congress or the Supreme Court when they open their official
sessions with a prayer. And because Christmas is the celebration of
the birth of Jesus, it bothers the ACLU to be reminded of that fact.
They're not interested in protecting Americans' rights; they're only
interested in their own agendas.

Jerry
That's my opinion, and I approve this message.

[Jerry Dennis]

On Dec 22, 10:26 pm, "Dr Jean Tant" <jt...@flash.net> wrote:
> Looks like Jerry has been watching Fox News. There is no ACLU "war against
> Christmas."  This is fiction
> made up by Fox News and talk radio.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBig928zYgY
>

> "Jerry Dennis" <JDen1...@aol.com> wrote in message

>
> news:5f2abea5-2cf9-437d...@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> >I love this group.  Merry Christmas to all.
>
> > Jerry

> > Screw the ACLU.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Breathe, good Doctor, breathe. I can and have disagreed on political
points we discuss here, but I don't think I've ever been mean, nasty,
or resorted to name-calling. I enjoy a good CIVIL debate. And if
Merry Christmas bothers you, allow me to wish you and your family a
very Happy Holiday season.

Jerry

[oly]

> Jerry- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

I somehow think that "Dr. Jean Tant" is some kind of dirty sexual
reference, although just exactly what it is escapes or eludes me.

oly

[oly]

> Jerry- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

And speaking of potentially naughty wordplay, I just got a spam e-mail
entitled "Get Your Cut Rate Viagra and Cialis - CHRISTMAS IS COMING!"

oly

[mazorj]

"Jerry Dennis" <JDen...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:772f63a9-283a-405f...@n6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com...

================================

We've got a semantics/grammar problem here, Jerry.

The word "establishment" can be taken two ways. You take it to mean a
gerundive form, "the act of establishing something". However,
"establishment" is most commonly used as a noun form, "something that has
been established" as in "I created/built/own/run this here establishment,
and I'm telling you to leave it now."

The former has a much more limited scope than the latter. Using the
former, it is clear that Congress cannot do anything to create, or aid and
abet in the creating, of any particular form of religion. However, a
strict reading of that interpretation means that once a religion has been
"established," there is no prohibition (specific or implied) against aiding
and abetting it, even to the exclusion of other "established" religions.

But using the latter interpretation covers not only the above situation
(the "act of establishing") but also aiding and abetting any already
"established" religion. It does not seem logical that the Founding Fathers
intended only to prohibit the former but allow the government to create
laws and spend money that favors one established religion over the other -
or even designate an *already established* religion as the official state
religion.

As to the ACLU, did you even bother to watch the link? The author
delivered a calm, factual refutation of the Fox canards regarding ACLU and
Christmas. If you have an equally factual refutation of their refutation,
now is the time to pony up with facts and not just the warped descriptions
and opinions of professional demagogues like O'Reilly and Limbaugh.

[Richard L. Hall]

"oly" <oly...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1b26011a-d7e4-4ba3...@z1g2000vbx.googlegroups.com...

========

Viagra and Cialis! When I was a kid we had some great stuff that was a
combination of Viagra + Cialis. Shorten the names, replace the "+" with a
look-alike "t" and you get Vi-t-alis. I put some on my brush cut and it
stood right up. And the girls used to love it too!

Merry Christmas everyone!


--
Richard
"Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and
leave a trail."

[mazorj]

"Jerry Dennis" <JDen...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:5c63e2d3-3713-43ea...@z17g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...

=================================

Where was she mean or nasty or resorting to name calling?

If anyone is, you're the mean & nasty one here - "Screw the ACLU"???

[oly]

On Dec 23, 1:28 pm, "Richard L. Hall" <richllhal...@richlh.com> wrote:
> "oly" <oly2...@aol.com> wrote in message

> leave a trail."- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Vitalis is still available. My dad always put some in his hair over
all these years, and when he went to the nursing home this year, I
went out to Walgreens and got him some to have for his use at the old
folks home. Brylcream too (they even make a special variety for
silvery-haired folks).

oly

[Jerry Dennis]

> oly- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

A little dab 'ill do ya.

Jerry

[Jerry Dennis]

On Dec 23, 2:30 pm, "mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Jerry Dennis" <JDen1...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:5c63e2d3-3713-43ea...@z17g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 22, 10:26 pm, "Dr Jean Tant" <jt...@flash.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Looks like Jerry has been watching Fox News. There is no ACLU "war
> > against
> > Christmas." This is fiction
> > made up by Fox News and talk radio.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBig928zYgY
>
> > "Jerry Dennis" <JDen1...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:5f2abea5-2cf9-437d...@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>
> > >I love this group. Merry Christmas to all.
>
> > > Jerry
> > > Screw the ACLU.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Breathe, good Doctor, breathe.  I can and have disagreed on political
> points we discuss here, but I don't think I've ever been mean, nasty,
> or resorted to name-calling.  I enjoy a good CIVIL debate.  And if
> Merry Christmas bothers you, allow me to wish you and your family a
> very Happy Holiday season.
> Jerry
> =================================
>
> Where was she mean or nasty or resorting to name calling?
>

> If anyone is, you're the mean & nasty one here - "Screw the ACLU"???- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

I never inferred the good Doctor to be mean and nasty. When
discussing issues here I do my best to refrain from doing so. There
are some things that really get my goat, though, and the ACLU's
selectivity on various issues is one of them. For example, they go to
battle for Freedom of Speech but only when it fits their agenda.
Where were they when Juan Williams was fired from PBS?

Jerry

[Jerry Dennis]

On Dec 23, 2:26 pm, "mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Jerry Dennis" <JDen1...@aol.com> wrote in message

I can agree with your points, Oly. My own view of "establish" is the
verb form which I believe was what the Founding Fathers' intended.
They didn't want the government to establish a Church of the United
States like Henry VIII did with the Church of England. As for the
noun form, I would consider that meaning covered in "free exerise
thereof."

Concerning the ACLU's representative on Fox News, I may or may not
have seen that particular segment. In truth, there have been some
guests from the ACLU that have been very civil and convincing. It's a
pleasure and informative to hear opposing views without rudeness,
interruptions (on both sides) and name calling, as we do here
(sometimes, at least).

Jerry.

[Jerry Dennis]

On Dec 23, 2:26 pm, "mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> wrote:

> "Jerry Dennis" <JDen1...@aol.com> wrote in message

Oops, sorry, Maz. I was reading one of Oly's responses and had him on
my mind. My response above was to your reply. Again, my apologies.

Jerry

[Dr. Jean Tant]

"Jerry Dennis" <JDen...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:fd946905-9d07-47bf...@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.comI

>never inferred the good Doctor to be mean and nasty. When
>discussing issues here I do my best to refrain from doing so. There
>are some things that really get my goat, though, and the ACLU's
>selectivity on various issues is one of them. For example, they go to
>battle for Freedom of Speech but only when it fits their agenda.
>Where were they when Juan Williams was fired from PBS?

>Jerry

Juan Williams was fired for violating corporate policies. The ACLU protects
the Constitution, which exists to protect citizens from the GOVERNMENT.
Companies can routinely monitor employee emails, listen in on phone
calls, fire people at will for any or no reason, and other activities which
the
government cannot do (without a warrant.)

The ACLU DID defend Rush LImbaugh when the GOVERNMENT tried to seize his
medical records to use as evidence to convict him of "doctor shopping"
(looking for
a doctor willing to prescribe the prescription drugs he wanted.)

You might be surprised to know that the ACLU opposes Hate Crime laws:

Christopher Anders, ACLU Senior Legislative Counsel:


"It has been our experience that the fight for better and stronger civil
rights protections

is more successful when free speech and association are protected along the
way.

Fierce protection of free speech rights has historically created the space
for the improvement

of civil rights protections. Unless amended to block evidence of speech and
association

not specifically related to a crime, the Senate hate crimes amendment could
chill

constitutionally protected speech and association. An otherwise unremarkable
violent

crime should not become a federal hate crime simply because the defendant
visited the

wrong website, belonged to a group espousing bigotry, or subscribed to a
magazine

promoting discriminatory views, however wrong and repugnant those beliefs
may be."

[mazorj]

"Jerry Dennis" <JDen...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:fd946905-9d07-47bf...@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...

===========================

There was no context to indicate anyone else whom you inferred to be mean
and nasty.

As to ACLU, their "agenda" is *civil rights* so they presumably were at the
same place when Howard Stern, O'Reilly and other employees of
non-government employers got the heave-ho: The expectation not to be fired
by a private employer for violating their standards that relate to speech
is not a civil right.

OTOH, ACLU defended the KKK when their civil rights were infringed. Hardly
the hallmark of a bleeding liberal outfit.

So what it is about ACLU that really (and legitimately) sticks in your
craw? I have my own conjectures but you should be the source.

[mazorj]

"Jerry Dennis" <JDen...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:6aac0a9a-26ca-485d...@p42g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...

=====================

Re your view on the noun form, forbidding anything that prevents the "free
exercise thereof" does nothing to curb the "aiding and abetting any already
'established' religion" that I noted would be perfectly legal using the
verb form interpretation. If the government gives $100 million to Islamic
mosques, that in no way infringes on your right to freely practice your
flavor of religion. That can hardly be the intent of the First Amendment.

[Jerry Dennis]

Their defense of hate speech under any of its guises. The classic
example of my dislike for the ACLU is from the recent Supreme Court
decision, Westboro Baptist Church v. Al Snyder. In that case the SC
ruled that the WBC had the right to protest at military funerals with
some of the most insensitive and abhorrent speech and sign-waving. No
respect whatsoever for the deceased or their grieving families. The
ruling was, basically, that they had that right under the First
Amendment.

Mr. Snyder originally filed charges against the WBC for emotional
distress (and other charges). He won his case in his local court.
The ACLU got involved and helped the WBC appeal that decision. The
Appellate Court overturned the lower court's decision. Mr. Snyder
then filed an appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. Even though the WBC
are all primarily lawyers and represented themselves, the ACLU was
there, providing assistance.

What the Courts have ALWAYS ignored is the fact that when this type of
free speech is abused, it can reasonably be considered to incite a
riot (similar to yelling "fire" in a theater when there is no fire).
There are other minor instances that I can't remember right now.

Jerry

[mazorj]

"Jerry Dennis" <JDen...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:f4197bee-b0e7-49e8...@dp8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...

=============================

Re "Their defense of hate speech under any of its guises," and the
probability of it inciting a riot, their defense of the KKK's right to hold
a demonstration most certainly fits both descriptions. You skipped right
past that part, but no matter.

Let me first say that the WBC demonstration was one of the sickest and most
sickening demonstrations I have had the misfortune to see in the news. The
only remotely positive thing I can say about this is that it illustrates
that the First Amendment is one of our dearest rights ("dear" as in costly)
because this is part of the price we pay for it.

Second, I do not agree with what I perceive to be your legal line of
reasoning. For example, if there were any riots or even violent
demonstrations against the WBC and its hateful actions, I must have missed
them. Nor do I think that the WBC's actions were as likely to cause them
compared to the much higher probability arising from the KKK demonstration.
My analysis would take us into the SCOTUS case that was the origin of "You
can't shout 'Fire!' in a crowded theater," the government's prohibition
only being applicable to exercising prior censorship, and the many
post-speech torts (defamation, libel, infringement of copyrights and
trademarks, etc.) and criminal penalties for violations of law (perjury,
giving false information to a law enforcement officer, et al.) that
infringe on our right to say anything we damn please, any time and
anywhere.

However, while I'm not averse to OT postings, as I noted, this thread is
careening way off into the weeds. We should either take it off-line
(e-mail me if you're interested) or say we have reached a point to agree
that we disagree.

In closing. it's been interesting, Jerry. And not in spite of but because
of our differing views on some subjects, it's always been a welcomed
opportunity to conduct a civil, focused Internet discussion.

P.S. - Shamelessly pathetic attempt to inject some on-topic: To my
knowledge, ACLU has not taken a stand on dollar coins replacing bills.

[Jerry Dennis]

> knowledge, ACLU has not taken a stand on dollar coins replacing bills.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Maz, just two points. I submit we have opposing views and neither of
us is going to change the other's mind. Good points have been
presented by both of us. I, too, enjoyed a civil debate.

And point 2, also to attempt to inject some on-topic discussion, I
know of no actions or any stance taken by the ACLU concerning the
recent 1099 issue that affects a significant number of collectors.

Jerry

[mazorj]

"oly" <oly...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:45d3d3d9-764c-406f...@z25g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...

======================

Oy, another rcc stroll down Memory Lane!

Brylcream, a little dab will do ya,
Brylcream, for healthy handsome hair.
Brylcream, the girls will all pursue ya,
They love to run their fingers through your hair.

I don't remember any brand names, but we also had crew cut wax to keep that
militaristic style of macho hirsuteness stiffly standing up, much like
moustache wax for fancy handlebar versions.

Hmmm... aids in a bottle (or jar) to keep manly hair stiff... were we
being sold the Freudian tonsorial predecessors to Viagra and Cialis?

"Viagra, a little pill will do ya..."

[mazorj]

"Steve Brownlee" <st...@bigstatecoinco.com> wrote in message
news:jctce8$q5q$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> The CFL bulbs are made in China and they hurt my eyes. Also the CFLs are
> way more dangerous to the environment than incandescents. People are not
> properly disposing of these CFLs. Landfills will be filled with mercury.
> President OBongo has no right to tell me what kind of light bulb to use.

The ban originated in a bill passed in 2007. If you are having trouble
doing the math, that was nearly two years before Obama took office. Which
means it was passed with bipartisan support and signed by Genial Dunce II,
AKA Georgie Boy, AKA Rove's Hand Puppet.

[mazorj]

"Alabama Pete" <psm...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:jctjca$avh$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> Efficient or not, it is insanely horrifying that liberal dummycrats think
> goverment can make a law that is a better decision than people's OWN
> decision. It's the position that they are the parent and you the child
> and
> these knot-heads are our employees!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For those who
> don't
> understand that here's another way of saying it; Obongo and the
> dummycrats
> arent good enough to clean the toilets of the rest of us, much less make
> decisions!!!!!

[mazorj]

"LibsFib" <Lib...@nationalvanguard.org> wrote in message
news:jctj0c$a8k$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
> Libtards has chased all manufacturing out of the country to their own
> dismay. I forbid any of those "obama bulbs" in my house! I will stockpile
> Incandescents if this goes any further. I'd like to see them hatch
> chickens under those Dim and Twisted obama Bulbs. LibsFIB!
>
> RON PAUL 2012!!!!

[mazorj]

"Jack Bauer" <jack...@freerepublic.com> wrote in message
news:jctk2c$cul$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>
> "Dr. Jean Tant" <jt...@flash.net> wrote in message
> news:jctel2$vao$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>
>> Far more mercury is released into the atmosphere by the burning of
>> fossil fuels to provide the
>> wasted electricity that standard bulbs use, which convert 90% of the
>> energy into heat.
> Your a CRETIN........ Even if everything you thinks is TRUE about the
> INFERIOR light-producing, mercury filled crappy new bulbs....(and it is
> NOT) then surely the FREE MARKET doesn't need a GOVERNMENT BAN on the
> competition right?....... These CFL's are so damned good they need a
> MONOPOLY... right..... But eco-fascists want to control everything a
> person does, doncha, fascist?................. You'll be sniffing around
> our shittting habits soon..... Oh... and seeing you're THAT CONCERNED
> about "foreign oil"... ....... then no doubt you are truly incensed about
> the dumbest President in history punting a PIPELINE that not only
> provides thousands of Americans with much needed JOBS, but also
> guarantees a massive new supply of reliable and regular OIL imports.....
> You just cannot talk to lieberals.... they really are just too stooopid
> to live

First, the ban originated in a bill passed in 2007. If you are having

trouble doing the math, that was nearly two years before Obama took office.
Which means it was passed with bipartisan support and signed by Genial

Dunce II, AKA Rove's Hand Puppet.

Second, the pipeline does come with environmental risks, not to mention the
hazards to persons who happen to be nearby when pipelines blow up. More
important are the economic impacts. The pipeline would give Canada a
convenient outlet to sell their oil to foreign buyers, which would decrease
Canadian sales to us and raise prices to American industries. We'd be
trading a small short-term economic shot in the arm for a significant,
long-term drag on our industrial output. (Which also means slowing job
creation or even adding to the unemployment rate.)

Third, I use CFLs in many places around the house but don't buy the cheap
Chinese ones. I tried one, it failed very quickly. By sticking to the
pricier ones (apparently they have better materials, designs. and/or
construction) I have had completely acceptable results. The only exception
is outdoor lamps in cold weather, which take minutes instead of seconds to
reach full output.

[mazorj]

"Okpulot Taha" <Okpul...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:jctkee$dlk$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>
> CFL bulbs contain toxic mercury which is introduced into our environment,
> foods and water. CFL bulbs makers in China suffer very high rates of
> toxic
> mercury poisoning causing death. CFL bulbs require HAZMAT equipment for
> cleanup after breakage. CFL bulbs do cause some to suffer epileptic
> seizures. CFL bulbs cause some with sensitive skin to suffer "sunburn" -
> think skin cancer. CFL bulbs when aged frequently explode into flames and
> smoke. CFL bulbs emit infrared radiation which interferes with remote
> controls and hell fire missiles. CFL bulbs radiation causes sun blocking
> window film to glow in the dark. CFL bulbs dim to unusable at 40% of
> stated
> lifetime; less than half of advertised lifetime. CFL bulbs cause harmonic
> distortion which disrupts our electric power grids. CFL bulbs cost 50%
> more
> in wages to produce so no American companies make those. CFL bulbs are
> not
> made in America rather in China by children who die of mercury poisoning.
> CFL bulbs being mandatory is a socialist assault upon our freedom of
> choice. CFL bulbs are too dim for me to see to read. I HATE CFL BULBS!
>
> Okpulot Taha - Choctaw Nation

Many moons ago, the government banned lead paint, including the
maufacturing of it and its use on interior walls and trim.

How dare they! Imposing socialistic limitations on the free market's
ability to make and sell this stuff!

As if that weren' enough, they invaded the privacy of your home, dictating
that you cannot use any (often cheaper and nicer-looking) lead paint in
your infant's nursery room or on trim that ankle-biters are prone to bite!
This blatant encroachment on our rights was yet another sneak attack to
shove us out onto the slippery slope to socialism.

As if all that weren't enough, they banned lead from gasoline. Same
anti-socialism objections as with lead paint, plus losing the benefit that
leaded gas was cheaper and better for the expected lifetime of engines
being produced at the time, plus the cost of all the retooling that had to
be done to produce engines that performed acceptably without the benefit of
lead. How dare they!

As to the harm caused in the manufacturing of CFLs, the average American
wears, ingests, or uses many products made under the same level of
hazardous conditions that exploit workers in their factories and farms.
Unless you can accurately certify that that you, your family, and home are
completely free of the use of all such products, your anti-Obama CFL rant
reeks of politically based hypocracy.

[mazorj]

"Gary" <garydor...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:f742c6ec-0ec3-4ba7...@g41g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 21, 3:55 am, "Robin Sisler" <presid...@compugrade3d.com> wrote:
> This is great news! More time to hoard!
>
> http://www.ecogeek.org/component/content/article/3663
>
> http://www.facebook.com/Numismatist

Nothing gets the Luddite coin fossils to post here than a chance to
rant about a law signed by and praised by
George W Bush, blame it on President Obama, and call him racist names
like "Omammy."

The truth is that Energy independence and Security Act of 2007
increased the efficiency standards for light bulbs by 30% from
2012-2014. The new energy standards begin with 100 watt bulbs in 2012,
and end with 45 watt bulbs in 2014. There is also a list of exempt
bulb types that includes appliance lamps, rough service bulbs, 3-way,
colored lamps, and plant lights. In 2020 a second set efficiency
raising standards will take effect.

It is not going to be illegal to own incandescent bulbs. No one is
going to come to your house and take them away, or put you in jail for
owning them. There is no ban. America is simply moving to a more
efficient light bulb. You will still be able incandescent bulbs for
uses that are exempt from the new standards. Here’s the real kicker.
The Energy Independence and National Security Act was signed into law,
not by the “nanny state loving socialist Obama,” but by Republican
free market champion George W. Bush. When President Bush signed the
bill into law on December 19, 2007, he praised the energy efficiency
standards, “The bill also includes revisions to improve energy
efficiency in lighting and appliances. It adopts elements of the
executive order I signed requiring federal agencies to lead by example
in efficiency and renewable energy use.” This bill came into being as
the legislative response to George W. Bush’s Twenty in Ten challenge
during his 2007 State of the Union. In the address, Bush called on the
United States to improve fuel economy, and increase alternative fuels.
His goal was to cut gasoline consumption by 20% in 10 years. All of
the current right wing outrage over light bulbs is due to a proposal
by their own Republican president. It was their idea. Instead of
trying to pass this plan off as Democratic big government, they need
to look in the mirror. If they don’t like the new bulbs, they should
be blaming themselves, not Obama or the Democrats. It is typical that
Fox News would try to frame Republicans as fighting the heroic fight
against big government, without telling their viewers that they
themselves created the big government that they are now so outraged
about, so the next time you come across a right winger who is moaning
about the light bulb ban, let them know that could have all the
incandescent bulbs that they wanted if they would not have voted for
Republican George W. Bush, the energy efficient light bulb president.

Gary Dorman
===========================

Excellent post, I wish I had seen it before firing off my much shorter
retorts, which your post made completely redundant WRT the CFL rants.
Thanks.

I do wish you hadn't trimmed the Limbaugh zoo from the header's list.
Having made similar cuts to froup lists, I understand the reasons why one
might do so. However, your analysis was so definitively factual and
dispositive (not to mention civil and focused) that it's a shame that the
foaming ditto-heads won't have their noses rubbed in it.

[mazorj]

Thank you again for documenting the facts. There was none of the hemming
and hawing and hinting at loopholes that often peppered his signing
speeches. It was a complete, enthusiastic buy-in from a president not
noted for endorsing additional regulatory limitations or for being
eco-friendly to proposals from tree-huggers that cut consumption.

And since you left the Limbaugh lemmings in the header for this gem, I'll
conclude my response with: Mega-dittoes for *everyone* who is reading this
thread being confronted with actual, accurate facts WRT this discussion!
Including the fact that the ban was part of a bill happily signed into law
by Obama's predecessor! What a concept!

"Gary" <garydor...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message

news:9dc88469-cb1c-48ff...@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 21, 4:06 pm, "Bernice Durdan-Rowland" <patrio...@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
>
> Get Obama the hell out of the White House and take his liberal,
> communistic
> friends and czars with him. That Cass Susteen, the regulation czar ought
> to
> go out and "dig ditches" - maybe he can do that right !!!!!!!
> Disgusted!!!!!!!

President Bush Signs H.R. 6, the Energy Independence and Security Act
of 2007
12-19-2007.


THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, all. Mr. Secretary, thank you for that
introduction. We're all pleased to be here at the Department of
Energy. I particularly want to thank the employees here for their
daily efforts to help our country meet its energy needs. Thanks for
your hard work. Sam, thank you for your leadership.

As Sam mentioned, I firmly believe this country needs to have a
comprehensive energy strategy, and I appreciate the members of
Congress for understanding that as well. Two years ago I was pleased
to stand with members -- many of whom are here -- to sign a bill that
was the first major energy security legislation in more than a decade.
At the time I recognized that we needed to go even further. And so in
my State of the Union I proposed an aggressive plan to reduce oil
consumption of gasoline by 20 percent over 10 years.

Today we make a major step with the Energy Independence and Security
Act. We make a major step toward reducing our dependence on oil,
confronting global climate change, expanding the production of
renewable fuels and giving future generations of our country a nation
that is stronger, cleaner and more secure. (Applause.)

I do welcome members of the Cabinet who've joined us. I particularly
want to thank the Speaker and the Leader. I appreciate your leadership
on this important issue. (Applause.) Speaker Pelosi is here with
Congressman Steny Hoyer, House Majority Leader; welcome, Mr. Leader.
(Applause.) Leader Reid has brought members of the Senate with him:
Senator Inouye, Senator Bingaman, Senator Stevens -- I think that's
Senator Domenici there is disguise -- (laughter and applause) --
looking pretty handsome, isn't he? (Applause.) I appreciate
Congressman Dingell and Congressman Markey, Congressman Gordon --
these are all leaders on their respective committees that help bring
this bill to my desk. I also want to welcome all the other members of
Congress who have joined us. (Applause.)

One of the most serious long-term challenges facing our country is
dependence on oil -- especially oil from foreign lands. It's a serious
challenge. And members of Congress up here understand the challenge
and so do I. Because this dependence harms us economically through
high and volatile prices at the gas pump; dependence creates pollution
and contributes to greenhouse gas admissions [sic]. It threatens our
national security by making us vulnerable to hostile regimes in
unstable regions of the world. It makes us vulnerable to terrorists
who might attack oil infrastructure.

The legislation I am signing today will address our vulnerabilities
and our dependence in two important ways. First, it will increase the
supply of alternative fuel sources. Proposed an alternative fuel
standard earlier this year. This standard would require fuel producers
to include a certain amount of alternative fuels in their products.
This standard would create new markets for foreign products used to
produce these fuels. This standard would increase our energy security
by making us less vulnerable to instability -- to the instability of
oil prices on the world market.

The bill I sign today takes a significant step because it will require
fuel producers to use at least 36 billion gallons of biofuel in 2022.
This is nearly a fivefold increase over current levels. It will help
us diversify our energy supplies and reduce our dependence on oil.
It's an important part of this legislation, and I thank the members of
Congress for your wisdom. (Applause.)

Second, the legislation also -- will also reduce our demand for oil by
increasing fuel economy standards. (Applause.) Last January, I called
for the first statutory increase in fuel economy standards for
automobiles since they were enacted in 1975. The bill I'm about to
sign delivers on that request. It specifies a national standard of 35
miles per gallon by 2020, which will increase fuel economy standards
by 40 percent and save billions of gallons of fuel. This bill also
includes an important reform that I believe is essential to making
sure that we realize this strategy. It allows the Department of
Transportation to issue what are known as "attribute-based standards,"
which will assure that increased fuel efficiency does not come at the
expense of automobile safety. This is an important part of this bill,
and again I thank the members for taking the lead. (Applause.)

The bill also includes revisions to improve energy efficiency in
lighting and appliances. It adopts elements of the executive order I
signed requiring federal agencies to lead by example in efficiency and
renewable energy use.

Taken together, all these measures will help us improve our
environment. It is estimated that these initiatives could reduce
projected CO2 emissions by billions of metric tons. At the U.N.
climate change meeting in Bali last week our nation promised to pursue
new, quantifiable actions to reduce carbon emissions. Today we're
doing just that. The legislation I'm signing today will lead to some
of the largest CO2 emission cuts in our nation's history. (Applause.)

The legislation I'm about to sign should say to the American people
that we can find common ground on critical issues. And there's more we
can accomplish together. New technologies will bring about a new era
of energy. So I appreciate the fact that Congress, in the omnibus
spending bill that I'm going to sign later on, recognizes that new
technologies will help usher in a better quality of life for our
citizens. And so we're going to spend money on new research for
alternative feedstocks for ethanol. I mean, we understand the hog
growers are getting nervous because the price of corn is up. But we
also believe strongly that research will enable us to use wood chips
and switchgrass and biomass to be able to develop the ethanol
necessary to help us realize the vision outlined in this bill.

I appreciate very much the fact that we're going to fund additional
research on new battery technologies to power plug-in hybrids. We're
spending money on innovative ways to capture solar power. We're making
-- providing incentives for nuclear energy. If we're serious about
making sure we grow our economy and deal with greenhouse gases, we
have got to expand nuclear power. (Applause.)

It is going to take time to transition to this new era. And we're
still going to need hydrocarbons. And I hope the Congress will
continue to open access to domestic energy sources -- certain parts of
the outer continental shelf in ANWR. And to protect us against
disruptions in our oil supply, I ask Congress to double the current
capacity of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve.

With these steps, particularly in the bill I'm about to sign, we're
going to help American consumers a lot. We'll help them by
diversifying our supplies, which will help lower energy prices. We'll
strengthen our security by helping to break our dependence on foreign
oil. We'll do our duty to future generations by addressing climate
change.

And so I thank the members of Congress. I appreciate the fact that
we've worked together, that we can show what's possible in addressing
the big issues facing our nation. This is a good bill and I'm pleased
to sign it.

(The bill was signed.) (Applause.)

[First. Post]

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 06:03:11 -0500, "mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net>
wrote:

If you look up H.R. 6 you see that your "bipartisan" vote was heavily
partisan as 159 Republicans voted against it and it was passed by the
then supermajority democrat congress. 214 votes was a simple
majority. The democrats passed the bill with 228 votes. Republicans
gave it 36 votes.
Your attempt to spin it into something seriously supported by
Republicans is weak as the info is freely available on the web.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2007-40
And you'll be hard pressed to find any conservatives that agreed with
Bush's signing of that bill. But being faced with a hostile majority
congress he pretty much had no choice but to sign it. At that point
in time he was trying to make peace with the democrats which
coincidentally coincided with his approval falling. The more he gave
to the left the less the voters cared for him.

And like so many other things that you stupid bastards blame the
Republicans for, why hasn't Obama done a damned thing to correct any
of the great evils you claim were passed by Republicans?

The Patriot Act that you howled over being unconstitutional has now
been expanded by your leader with your full approval by you.
Gitmo remains open even though you all bitched and whined over it for
7 years and now you have no problem with the facility at all even
though nothing has changed in the way it is ran.
Virtually everything you whined about when a Republican was in office
is now instantly OK for a democrat to continue.
Even the tax cuts you cried over for years suddenly became necessary
once Obama was in office. In fact the middle class tax cut that you
all preached didn't exist suddenly became real and needed to be
continued.
What Bush policies has Obama overturned since taking office?
Answer: Virtually none.

Liberals; lying hypocritical narcissistic megalomaniacs that change
their own ideaology to suit whomever they view as their leader.
See also "lemming" in the dictionary.

[First. Post]

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 06:35:36 -0500, "mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net>
wrote:

continuing to copy and paste the same drivel over and over makes you
look like nothing but a stupid bot.

>
>Second, the pipeline does come with environmental risks, not to mention the
>hazards to persons who happen to be nearby when pipelines blow up. More
>important are the economic impacts. The pipeline would give Canada a
>convenient outlet to sell their oil to foreign buyers, which would decrease
>Canadian sales to us and raise prices to American industries. We'd be
>trading a small short-term economic shot in the arm for a significant,
>long-term drag on our industrial output. (Which also means slowing job
>creation or even adding to the unemployment rate.)

The pipeline is to feed refineries in the US which happen to be
concentrated near the Gulf. Your fantasy argument that more oil to
the US would result in less oil to the US is ignorant and illogical.

>
>Third, I use CFLs in many places around the house but don't buy the cheap
>Chinese ones. I tried one, it failed very quickly. By sticking to the
>pricier ones (apparently they have better materials, designs. and/or
>construction) I have had completely acceptable results. The only exception
>is outdoor lamps in cold weather, which take minutes instead of seconds to
>reach full output.

So you like the thought of throwing mercury into land fills.
A "green" bulb that just happens to be full of deadly toxin that
doesn't biodegrade with accumulative effects on all living organisms.
Easy to see why stupid assed liberals are so in love with the things.

[First. Post]

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 07:18:46 -0500, "mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net>
wrote:

What a complete load of rhetorical bullshit. You are defending a
deadly poison being used in a device that for decades contained no
toxins whatsoever.
And to answer your stupid assed allegations, NO most folks don't have
a speck of mercury in a goddamned thing they use in their home.
Like lead in paint, mercury was pretty much done away with in regards
to consumer products years ago. You don't see mercury filled
thermometers being sold in drug stores and even AC thermostats that
used mercury in the balance switches have virtually been phased out
due to the hazard.
And now you morons want it in every household and trying to excuse it
by saying people have other deadly toxins in their homes and one more
won't matter?

Indeed. It is you that is the hypocritical imbecile. Environmentalist
raised hell for years bitching about mercury in the ocean affecting
the food chain and now, for political reasons only, you turn all of
that on its' head.

Fucking idiot.

[Bremick]

"Paul Ciszek" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jcuosi$asa$5...@reader1.panix.com...
>
> In article <jctrrb$u42$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,

> Sand88 <sa...@freerepublic.com> wrote:
>>"LibsFib" <Lib...@nationalvanguard.org> wrote in

>>news:jctj0c$a8k$1...@speranza.aioe.org:

>>
>>> Libtards has chased all manufacturing out of the country to their own
>>> dismay. I forbid any of those "obama bulbs" in my house! I will
>>> stockpile Incandescents if this goes any further. I'd like to see them
>>> hatch chickens under those Dim and Twisted obama Bulbs. LibsFIB!
>>>
>>> RON PAUL 2012!!!!
>>

>>Eliminate the Dept of Energy, Education, Interor, Transportation, Home
>>land Security, Commerce, Federal Reserve. Fire all Federal parasites
>>that work at the goverment. . How much would that save? These un-
>>Constitutional Departments and their czars and parasite employees
>>deserve to suffer.
>
> Where do you intend to get nuclear weapons once you have eliminated
> the Department of Energy? The ones we have now go bad over time and
> need continuous replacing. If you expect the private sector to make
> them for sale to the Federal government, well, it may turn out that
> there are other customers willing to buy them as well. And you
> wouldn't want the government interferring with a business deal, right?

And we would propose to use these nuclear weapons when? First strike?
Retaliation? MAD is 1960's history. Do you really feel protected in 2012
by our patrolling SSBN's with multi-megatons of nuclear ammo?

[oly]

On Dec 29, 9:18 pm, "Bremick" <rem...@cox.net> wrote:
> "Paul Ciszek" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>
> news:jcuosi$asa$5...@reader1.panix.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> > In article <jctrrb$u4...@speranza.aioe.org>,
> > Sand88  <s...@freerepublic.com> wrote:
> >>"LibsFib" <Libs...@nationalvanguard.org> wrote in

> >>news:jctj0c$a8k$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>
> >>> Libtards has chased all manufacturing out of the country to their own
> >>> dismay. I forbid any of those "obama bulbs" in my house! I will
> >>> stockpile Incandescents if this goes any further. I'd like to see them
> >>> hatch chickens under those Dim and Twisted obama Bulbs. LibsFIB!
>
> >>> RON PAUL 2012!!!!
>
> >>Eliminate the Dept of Energy, Education, Interor, Transportation, Home
> >>land Security, Commerce, Federal Reserve.  Fire all Federal parasites
> >>that work at the goverment. . How much would that save? These un-
> >>Constitutional Departments and their czars and parasite employees
> >>deserve to suffer.
>
> > Where do you intend to get nuclear weapons once you have eliminated
> > the Department of Energy?  The ones we have now go bad over time and
> > need continuous replacing.  If you expect the private sector to make
> > them for sale to the Federal government, well, it may turn out that
> > there are other customers willing to buy them as well.  And you
> > wouldn't want the government interferring with a business deal, right?
>
> And we would propose to use these nuclear weapons when?  First strike?
> Retaliation?  MAD is 1960's history.   Do you really feel protected in 2012

> by our patrolling SSBN's with multi-megatons of nuclear ammo?- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

I have to laugh, Fukusima is probably the worst thing that has ever
happened nuclear-wise, and nobody dares to say "BOO". We need to shut
down the electric power plants based upon nuclear ASAP, even if it
means some rationing of electricity.

The U.S. Federal Government has never added a single strand of hay to
this nation's total wealth, not at any time in our history; the Feds
maybe helped to ensure "justice" or "just outcomes" when I was very
very young; they certainly don't do so anymore.

oly

[Jerry Dennis]

On Dec 29, 7:18 am, "mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Okpulot Taha" <OkpulotT...@aol.com> wrote in message

Maz, let's not forget lead being removed from solder for domestic
water copper and brass pipes. It's still available but is only to be
used in heating and drainage applications. The nerve.

Jerry
Hey, we agree on something!

[Bremick]

"mazorj" <maz...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:jdhgsl$ifp$1...@dont-email.me...

Vitalis probably was killed by the blow dryer for men. I used Vitalis for a
while because dad had some. For crew cuts, (for some reason in Rhode Island
we called them "rah-rah"s") I tried the wax stick but my head just wasn't
the right shape for a flat-top haircut. Dad had Mennen aftershave lotion,
too, and a stiptic (sp?) pencil to rub over shaving wounds. Mennen may have
disappeared from the market when 1960's hippies discovered what was in it
that made it evaporate so fast.

[beekeep]

Let's use them for hunting whales. Then we could go back to burning
whale oil and eliminate all light bulbs.

beekeep

[Bremick]

"beekeep" <hon...@radix.net> wrote in message
news:4efdbc5a....@usenet.radix.net...

Hunting whales with a nuclear weapon probably wouldn't produce much whale
oil.

Nothing wrong though with cranking up a few of those kerosene lamps and
lanterns some of our rural ancestors surely felt comfortable with. Many of
these fine folks lived to a ripe old age, even after a lifetime of being
exposed to "fumes" from their lamps that today's huggers would gasp over.