Erik Weihenmayer to speak at Bay Area Climbing Gym
Bill Wright
8th at 8pm at the Concord gym.. This is a fabulous opportunity to see
Erik speak. He is in VERY high demand and is doing this show as a
favor to us. All the gate money goes to benefit the Access Fund.
I hope you will help spread the word to everyone in the community
about this special occasion.
For more information on Erik you can direct people to:
http://www.touchthetop.com
For directions to the gym:
http://www.touchstoneclimbing.com/tours_con.html
Tickets are $10 in advance and likely won't be available at the door.
( but are $20 on the day of the show)
Adam S.
>The Concord Climbing Gym will be hosting Erik Weihenmayer on November
>8th at 8pm at the Concord gym.. This is a fabulous opportunity to see
>Erik speak. He is in VERY high demand and is doing this show as a
>favor to us. All the gate money goes to benefit the Access Fund.
Hi all,
Just wanted to comment on the event Bill so kindly posted about.
First off, Erik gave a very interesting slide show. He is very
personable, has nice sense of humor and like many men of
accomplishment, was rather self-effacing. He often spoke of his
friends (who he had on his trips) and the team. I had never heard of
him (don't get out much) until Bill's post so I was fascinated to see
gorgeous slides and interesting short videos of Erik on various
mountaineering and trad climbing trips. He also has a book out which
probably would do better justice to all his adventures than I can
summarize here.
I must admit that my first reaction was a typically unthoughtful one:
why would a blind guy want to summit when he can't even see the views?
A certain r.c.'er when told of this event made some comment about how
can he onsite a climb, etc. But even Erik made jokes like that last
night! What Erik made clear is how he enjoys these adventures with
so many other senses. From what he said, my conclusion is that like
many explorers he is driven by a sense of adventure. Since the
"adventure" is the journey: the training and the incredible physical
challenges many of you have also experienced also constitute the
experience for him. Additionally he spoke of the feeling of space,
the wind and sound, the echoes off the rocks, even the tastes and
smells in the air... All these give him a sense of his environment.
His talk reminded me of the Daredevil (comic book character), where
senses are so heightened that sight was not needed. And while Erik
might not go that far, it is amazing, from his descriptions, of how
much he has experienced, understood, "seen" as it were without the use
of his eyes.
For example, he described rock climbing (he's climbed with Hans
Florine, the sponsor of this event). He described how he just feels
his way forward... And for him climbing is the same physical motion,
struggle we experience but I imagine he feels especially closely the
tactile qualities of each crack, knob, etc. He said this "climbing by
feel" is particularly easy with cracks and such but he also described
getting "off route" on a 5.8 and getting into some very thin, hard
territory and making it. And that segued into his observation that
(I'm paraphrasing from memory here) one of the challenges was in fact
going for it when you don't know what's out there, facing the
unknown...
He gave another example that I liked: namely, he decided to get into
ice climbing. Naysayers said (as it seems they've said to him all his
life, esp, re: Everest), no you can't do that - ice is known by
various colors (paraphrasing here, personally I never touch the
stuff), and other visual queues and if you hit the wrong stuff a
refrigerator sized chunk can come raining down on you. Well he
figured he'd try it anyhow. The joy is he enjoys these challenges of
finding ways to make it happen. So taking his ice ax he'll thump
around. He then gave descriptions of what the bad ice sounds like and
then a clear sound of what "good for climbing" ice sounds like. So he
"thumps" his way up.
Other interesting examples were of how difficult navigating the ice
boulder field up Everest had been for him whereas skirting along on
crampons on ladders that bridge crevasses came naturally to him since
it is like walking anywhere unknown.
For the Everest trip I guess he broke a lot of records (largest team,
father/son pair, oldest guy (I think the father of the pair), and of
course "blindest man" to summit. But the thing that interested me was
all the naysayers' accusation that he'd be having others just haul him
up. From the slides and his description, it is clear he did it
himself (as a full part of the team). I don't want to give the
impression he harped on naysayers because in fact he mentioned more
how important encouragement had been to him and should be to all and
he ended on some quotes to that effect.
That is not to say he isn't above using sighted people to "lead the
way." In the Q&A I had asked (knowing nothing about Mountaineering)
if he used GPS, maps (e.g. braille topos, audible compasses, or
something) to navigate and he said he uses sighted friends. Makes
sense to me. His latest endeavor has been parasailing. He has a
sighted friend direct him as he takes off and then on radio someone
will talk him through the directions to safely land. Here too he's
learned tricks, like trailing a bell below him so he has a heads-up
early-warning device to tell him when he is about to hit the ground.
Anyhow he was an interesting speaker and seemed like a nice guy. Also
nice was Hans Florine. It was interesting to finally see this person
after having heard about him and read about him here. While the
event was low-budget and not slickly organized, it was interesting to
see Hans in his new role in Concord. I asked one of the staff (Hans
was too busy being everywhere at once) and they said he had no fixed
position but was on staff to promote the gym. Anyhow seemed like a
nice guy, had a nice way of interacting with us when giving out prizes
and promoting the gym Erik's book, and in a very low-key way his own
(I wanted to buy a copy but he only found 1 copy for someone else!).
Anyhow, I think Melissa's comments about him in the "potter vs.
florine" thread does the best job of summing up my one-time impression
of him:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3d582e5f%241%40eCompute.org
Lastly I wanted to make some minor comments about the gym itself, so
pardon me if you hate or are violently opposed to gyms. While I
would prefer to climb outdoors, once winter comes I thaw my membership
at MC to "stay in shape" by doing mellow climbing one day a week.
Yeah I'm not even up to bool's training regime, but then again I don't
want to be either. Most climbers I know who have injured themselves
have done so at the gym. I go to practise movements and a little
strength.. Anyhow, this is just my opinion of this gym as compared to
other SF Bay Area gyms. First, there are are no climbing cracks in
this gym. I think that was a bad choice but after hurting my finger
in the wide MC crack I can imagine they just decided to erase such
liabilities from the design. What you don't know is missing you can't
miss.
Secondly, the routes are even softer than the already overrated routes
at IronWorks and MissionCliffs (itself a conscious marketing
decision?). There were some very strong kids leading in the gym, so
maybe the ratings get serious at routes levels I didn't try. While
the overhanging 10b I did was pumpy it wasn't as hard as the 10b's
I've done at IW or MC. In short, I don't think a consensus of
climbers would have called it a 10b or the 9's I did 9's, etc.
Everything I clmbed felt 1-2 grades easier.
One nice thing about this gym (and I found out the Sacto and Marin
sister-gyms do this as well) is that on Fridays non-member entry is
$5. So I guess if you live close it would be good for laps, training,
etc. A second nice thing is that the staff was very nice. Avery,
formerly of MC and pretty nice/mellow, was the more senior person on
staff that night and then the others seemed like nice, friendly and
knowledgeable high school kids.
So thumbs up for Erik and Hans, if you are a gym-rat check it out but
don't get your hope up...
thanks for listening,
Adam
D a v i d E m r i c h
...
> First, there are are no climbing cracks in
> this gym. I think that was a bad choice but after hurting my finger
> in the wide MC crack I can imagine they just decided to erase such
> liabilities from the design. What you don't know is missing you can't miss.
Several of the people I climb with complained about the lack of crack.
The staff are all apologetic about it except for the woman who seems to be
in charge, who almost seemed hostile when I discussed it with her. She has
a list of complaints against gym cracks. BTW, your finger injury issue wasn't
one of them. Do you *really* think gym cracks are a hazard? I think
finger cracks in general can cause knuckle inflamation, but that's one crack
size, and a fairly minor injury.
> Secondly, the routes are even softer than the already overrated routes
> at IronWorks and MissionCliffs (itself a conscious marketing
> decision?).
How many of them did you climb? They have some routes that are softer
than Ironworks, and some that are stiffer. Perhaps the most interesting route
there, and the most like outdoor climbing (and it's mostly naturals, so it's
not going anywhere soon), climbs a pillar above a little roof to your right as
you enter. The first three holds are just above the roof. Then you climb the
vertical corners of the pillar to the finish hold at the top. I can't recall a 5.11c
that hard at Ironworks. I've seen a couple guys who climb 5.13 who didn't
complete it. I've seen a few other climbs there in the 5.11a to c range that
were harder than climbs of a similar grade I've done at Ironworks. I've also
seen several that were pretty soft, including a 5.7 that was 4th class.
I think lots of gyms do that though.
David
Brian in SLC
> "Adam S." <p...@post.here> wrote in message news:nhgrsu07op4975ano...@4ax.com...
> ...
> > First, there are are no climbing cracks in
> > this gym.
>
>
> > at IronWorks and MissionCliffs (itself a conscious marketing
> > decision?).
>
> How many of them did you climb? They have some routes that are softer
> David
I've been twice. I think some of the ratings are inconsistant which
will probably settle out over time.
Especially in the bouldering area. There were two V1's I couldn't
hardly even start, yet I "sent" on site several V2's (good ego boost,
but, I'm not kiddin' myself!).
Couple of comments. I wish they'd add more holds to the bouldering
area and make a few more, uhh, "warm up" type problems (especially
long easy traverses). A bunch of V0 and V0-, especially open handed
holds for less chance of finger injury, would be nice. When I'm
tired, still want to have something interesting to play and work out
on! And, instead of harder problems with crimpier holds, try setting
more awkward open handed stuff (again, finger injuries).
Lead routes. Be nice if they had a couple of really steep absolute
jug hauls. OK, a bunch. And...why not down into the 5.8 or 5.9 range
(the 5.10a's seemed to be maybe 5.9's anyhoo)? The lead areas
(especially off to the left) in the gym are underutilized. Especially
self limiting due to bringing your own rope and a lead test tied to a
specific grade which I disagree with. As long as a person is belayed
and clips safely, who cares what grade they lead at?
I thought some of the bolt spacing on the lead routes was a tad sporty
(ground fall potential, or at least hitting a person walking or
bouldering underneath). Better to be safe and add more clips. Save
the headspace for the finishing jug rather than have folks get hurt if
a hold spins.
Complaints against cracks? Ugh. Be great if there was a smooth sided
parallel jam crack (2.5 or 3 friend size) to pump out on. No texture,
smooth (like planet granite) so wouldn't require tape to prevent a
skin tear if you got tired and slipped out. 2 by 4 smooth (I miss the
Body Shop in SLC, they had a staight up 2 by 6(?) wooden hand jam
crack, fun!). Would be very easy to add something like this on the
back wall...
Still a fun spot. Can five buck Fridays be beat? And...Elephant Bar
post gym is a nice option. Are there any others??
Brian in SLC
Adam S.
> Several of the people I climb with complained about the lack of crack.
Since my guess didn't even make their list can you tell me what
reasons were on their list for ommitting a crack or two?
>Do you *really* think gym cracks are a hazard?
For newer climbers like myself on the Class 5 thin crack with a lip on
it that could easily catch your knuckle, maybe. But that wasn't the
point of my comment. It's not whether I think they are dangerous but
whether the gym thinks cracks might be an additional liability or even
worth the money/hassle given (speculatively) that their bread and
butter is newbies/kids parties.
>How many of them did you climb? They have some routes that are softer
>than Ironworks, and some that are stiffer.
Only had time for 3 routes before Erik's talk - I apologize that my
sample size wasn't mentioned in the final draft (I had it in a
previous draft of the post). Yes, I realize 3 is an unfairly small
sample. I made the comment because I am curious to hear others
comments. That night I spoke to a couple of other people who have
been going more regularly and they agreed the ratings were "soft."
Since the routes themselves are supposed to be peer-reviewed, I
figured asking my peers would help my assessment. Then again I spoke
to one of the routesetters this weekend and he said (like you) that
some were harder and some easier. His spin was this is because of
the inconsistency of the route setters themselves. The people I spoke
to were also climbing at my 9/10x level. Whereas I mentioned that
"There were some very strong kids leading in the gym, so maybe the
ratings get serious at routes levels I didn't try" - which keys into
the 11c's and up you mentioned as being challenging. I was speaking
of the less rarified world of 9's and 10's but failed to make that
clear enough.
Interestingly a former route setter I met this weekend brought a
completely different perspective to the whole art of route setting:
height. She climbs more at the level you were talking about and said
that for her many 10c routes end up having one 12a type move on them
because the setter didn't take into account height etc. When I
mentioned that one of the harder routesetters (Rowan) was pretty short
she said yes but he has a positive ape index and is so powerful that
he often has a dyno or power move somewhere in on his routes (other
climbers that night said the same thing about his routes but I'd never
noticed maybe cuz I'm tall so never have had to dyno at my grade
levels). In short, he routesets for his own attributes and abilities
and forgets that he is route setting for a wider audience. I
countered "aren't the climbs supposed to be peer reviewed before a
rating is assigned" (hence a colleague might catch such an oversight)
and she said "*should* yes, but usually one other climber just climbs
it and then rubber stamps it because management does not emphasize
good route setting." She also gave the counter example of a City Rock
route setter who had a short girlfriend who would give him hell if he
set a route that was height biased. He then began observing her
outdoors as well and became a lot more attentive to setting
intermediary footholds, etc. that in no way would detract from the
rating or experience of a climb for a tall person. In fact a tall
person such as myself probably would just pass that one hold by.
A conclusion/opinion she offered for all this was that the gym is a
business and they've figured out that the money they make is (mostly)
from newbies so why would they spend all that time setting carefully
thought out routes? I'd previously heard kids programs and birthday
parties are a staple of the business and at Mission Cliffs the number
of first-time climber classes happening each time I go there are
amazingly high. Clearly not all these people stick with it, otherwise
the already crowded MC would be 10-times more packed. So just from my
own observations, I think she might be right about the stream of
newbies or one-time climbers being their corporate focus, hence the
soft routes, lack of cracks, etc. But your mileage may vary.
Adam
D a v i d E m r i c h
"Adam S." <p...@post.here> wrote in message news:gmnvsu8pdpd5e980f...@4ax.com...
> "D a v i d E m r i c h" <emr...@bigfoot.extrastuff.com> wrote:
> > Several of the people I climb with complained about the lack of crack.
> > BTW, your finger injury issue wasn't one of them.
>
> Since my guess didn't even make their list can you tell me what
> reasons were on their list for ommitting a crack or two?
Difficult to maintain.
I don't think she was familiar with or remotely interested in the hand crack
between concrete panels at PG. Fun climbing with zero maintainance. She
told me about the problems they had trying to modify a crack at MC (I've never
been there BTW).
Nobody uses them.
When I go to a gym with cracks I usually see several people using them. More than
I see climbing 5.13 sport routes, of which Concord has a few. I even see climbers
using the OWs. In one of my two visits to PG Belmont, I met (former?) r.c.er Karl Lew,
and he gave me great coaching on their hard OW.
Other than that, she indicated that overhanging sport climbing is what most people
want, and she made it sound like we were lucky to get *anything* less than vert
at all, and I think she said she met opposition when she insisted on a little "slab".
Not sure about this. Of course they have to have less-than-vert for the kids. Maybe
she meant that had to push the route setters to put honest 5th class routes there.
David
Melissa
Adam,
Thanks for posting your comments on the Erik W. show. I'd have liked to
attend myself. I remember thinking that his trip to the top of Everest was
entirely irresponsible. Then I read an article about him in one of the mags
about a year ago, and my attitude was totally changed. I often think of
people like Erik or Wayne Willoughby (spelling?) when doing the "daily affirmation"
part of my physical therapy.
There is a scene in 'Masters of Stone V' where 3 handicapped guys (Erik and
I think Wayne and someone else) use each others abilities to compensate for
their own disabilities and the three of them are able to summit a desert
spire. Erik goes right to the top and stands on it. Especially without
seeing the view, can you imagine standing blindfolded on a 2 sq. ft. platform
that drops off into the void on all sides. You wouldn't see void, but, man,
I bet you'd feel it!
*******
As for cracks at the gym...The cracks at IronWorks are very rarerly uses.
I doubt the gym makes much of there money off of us trad types, and it's
possible that it wasn't worth the cost of putting in the cracks. I know
that they've had problems with the plaster stuff in the cracks at MC and
IW breaking away, so maybe they're considered a liablility or hard to maintain?
Not justifying, just speculating. Unfortunately, I've actually made my
nightly gym selection based on which width of crack I wanted to practice.
(MC = hands, fingers; IW = fist, OW, off-fingers) Planet Granite definately
has the best indoor cracks around.
If you guys want to complain about the gym construction to someone who has
any control over it, I'd bypass the manager of a particular gym that is already
as constructed as it will ever be, and talk to either the owner or the manager
of Touchstone Inc. At least the next gym that they build might have more
of the things that you're looking for.
Melissa
Melissa
Adam S. wrote:
>A conclusion/opinion she offered for all this was that the gym is a
>business and they've figured out that the money they make is (mostly)
>from newbies so why would they spend all that time setting carefully
>thought out routes?
This is absolutely not the mentality of the coursesetters at all. In fact,
if the person you talked to was who I suspect, her husbans WAS in charge
of coursesetting for a lot of years. Make of that statement what you will.
>I'd previously heard kids programs and birthday
>parties are a staple of the business and at Mission Cliffs the number
>of first-time climber classes happening each time I go there are
>amazingly high.
Right. They are A staple, but not THE staple. At IW membership is still
the bread and butter and keeping memberships as well as getting new ones
is one of their top priorities. If there are problems in the execution of
this, it's not for lack of intent.
However, at the new gym (I'm only speculating), membership recruitment very
well could be aimed more at the newbie crowd since it takes a while to build
up a core of experienced climbers who tend to keep going to their old gyms
for quite a while while the newbie factor is high at the new gym. In particular
I've heard a lot of experienced South Bay climbers who are closer to Belmont
say that they continue to go to PG Santa Clara because of the gumby factor
and resulting management attitude at PG Belmont.
Melissa
D a v i d E m r i c h
"Melissa" <iamthew...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3dd00929$1...@eCompute.org...
> If you guys want to complain about the gym construction to someone who has
> any control over it, I'd bypass the manager of a particular gym that is already
> as constructed as it will ever be
A few of us asked for cracks when we toured the gym before it opened.
The main walls were built, but the bouldering area wasn't. I asked them to at
least give us a roof crack in the bouldering area. No dice.
>, and talk to either the owner or the manager
> of Touchstone Inc.
You're right. I spoke to several people who cared, and one who seemed to be a
decision-maker, but I guess it only helps if you talk to a decision-maker who cares.
Such a person may not exist.
David
Dave
<<snippage>>
> In particular
> I've heard a lot of experienced South Bay climbers who are closer to
Belmont
> say that they continue to go to PG Santa Clara because of the gumby factor
> and resulting management attitude at PG Belmont.
Can't speak for those climbers, but I joined up at PG after a couple of
years of putting up with spotty route quality at MC, and a slightly
down-my-nose-at-you management attitude. I like the routes at Belmont, and
so far have not had any problems with the gym managment. What management
attitude at PG Belmont are you speaking of? Perhaps I'm one of the gumby
factors. FWIW I climb early a.m., so there's never a crowd.
Dave
bbense+rec.cli...@telemark.stanford.edu
In article <H5FHsA.E...@lynxgen.com>,
- - I'm not sure what you're talking about either, but of course
there is probably a picture of me next to gumby in the
dictionary. If you show up early (like 5pm or so) yes you
will run into kid parties, but that's true at SC as well.
So far I much prefer the Belmont gym and can detect no
difference in management.
- - Booker C. Bense
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Ricardo Lagos
angled so that the rope can jump over itself and act like a brake.. couple
that with the fact that you have to use their gri-gris .. and it makes for a
frustrating belay ...
.. last week i actually climbed 1/2 of a route on their tall wall (top half)
while my belayer was fussing trying to get the rope to feed through (it was
stuck at the top) .. i noticed when i got to the top and had alot of rope
underneath me .. :-) .. my belayer eventyally cought up ..
.. oh, and i hope they get someone to fix their leaky roof
-- ricardo
"D a v i d E m r i c h" <emr...@bigfoot.extrastuff.com> wrote in message
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