Interview with Jobst Brandt
bicycle_disciple
I had conducted with Jobst Brandt some weeks back. An introduction to
the series can be read here : http://bit.ly/bR977b
Hope you enjoy it whether you agree or disagree with his opinions.
Stay tuned.
-Ron George
http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com
Andre Jute
> FYI : In the upcoming days, I'll be publishing a series of interviews
> I had conducted with Jobst Brandt some weeks back. An introduction to
> the series can be read here :http://bit.ly/bR977b
In the famous admonition of Ecclesiastes, "Now let us praise famous
men"! Excellent idea, Ron.
> Hope you enjoy it whether you agree or disagree with his opinions.
If one didn't disagree with Jobst at least some of the time, and if
some didn't disagree with him all the time, it is doubtful that he
would have left such a mark, be such a distinguished engineer, even be
worth listening to. Jobst does a good line in self-pity about the less
well-accomplished not appreciating him, something you've picked up on,
but the kibitzing of ankle-nippers is a necessary precondition to
being Jobst.
> Stay tuned.
>
> -Ron Georgehttp://cozybeehive.blogspot.com
I'm looking forward to reading the rest of it -- and to the inevitable
flame war when Jobst can't keep his mouth shut and starts swatting the
gnats! My money, as always, is on Jobst, not the little people.
Thanks, Ron.
Andre Jute
"The brain of an engineer is a delicate instrument which must be
protected against the unevenness of the ground." -- Wifredo-Pelayo
Ricart Medina, designer of the all-conquering interwar Alfa-Romeo
grand prix cars, putting down Enzo Ferrari, who had the temerity to
enquire why Ricart, otherwise a foppish dresser, always wore shoes
with such inordinately thick rubber soles.
bicycle_disciple
Andre,
Thanks for the encouragement. I have stated the objectives of this
interview in my introduction piece. Part II will go live in a few
hours!
bicycle_disciple
bicycle_disciple
sergio
> Here's part III :http://bit.ly/cBOdMV
I don't know if this is a problem with my screen or what but ... .
Would it be possible to have the text shown against a white
background?
I see a brown one and, frankly, it is horrible.
Sergio
Pisa
Sergio Moretti
For me it shows up as black text on white background -- no problem
reading, and quite interesting too!
Sergio Moretti
sergio
> For me it shows up as black text on white background -- no problem
> reading, and quite interesting too!
Then it may be that it gets a tan while crossing over the ocean.
Sergio
Pisa
andre...@aol.com
I am getting the tan background but the text is black over a white
background in front of the tan background. Somehow your computer is
not distinguishing the tan and the white backgrounds as separated. Try
increasing the resolution of our monitor. It is obvious that the
Italian technology is not up to par since you seem to get your
building crooked.
sergio
. It is obvious
that the
> Italian technology is not up to par since you seem to get your
> building crooked.
Hold it (as Jobst would say)!
I just discovered that lookiong at it from my home computer everything
is in order.
Yesterday I had connected from work, so I was punished.
National pride saved.
Sergio
Pisa
andre...@aol.com
>
> National pride saved.
>
Avanti Italia!
bicycle_disciple
Thanks for the humor, Sergio.
To all others : I want to apologize for the bickering going on in the
comments section to Part III. It seems some folks have taken some sour
memories of their interactions with Jobst on these newsgroups. Some
stories don't seem to be substantiated well enough, so it looks to be
more of exaggeration than any real "hurt" at this point to me.
What do you feel? Please go over comments to this interview here :
Dan O
Dan O
(Just to be clear, I'm honored to appear with Jobst - not for anything
in the comments.)
Tim McNamara
<3da7187a-8fe8-41df...@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
bicycle_disciple <1.crazy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 13, 12:25 pm, sergio <serva...@df.unipi.it> wrote:
> > On 13 Mar, 15:34, "andresm...@aol.com" <andresm...@aol.com> wrote:
> > . It is obvious
> > that the
> >
> > > Italian technology is not up to par since you seem to get your
> > > building crooked.
> >
> > Hold it (as Jobst would say)! I just discovered that lookiong at it
> > from my home computer everything is in order. Yesterday I had
> > connected from work, so I was punished.
> >
> > National pride saved.
> >
> > Sergio Pisa
>
>
> Thanks for the humor, Sergio.
>
> To all others : I want to apologize for the bickering going on in the
> comments section to Part III. It seems some folks have taken some
> sour memories of their interactions with Jobst on these newsgroups.
> Some stories don't seem to be substantiated well enough, so it looks
> to be more of exaggeration than any real "hurt" at this point to me.
Since this is the driver for much of the dudgeon Jobst receives in the
newsgroup, and since you're advertising your interview in the newsgroup,
there's no surprise here.
Jobst has a declarative and authoritative writing style with little
compunction about telling people they are full of crap, so he's ruffled
a few feathers over the years. I think there are a lot of people who
have felt very stung by that and have nursed a grudge against him,
perhaps even seeing him as malicious towards them, and waste no
opportunity to attack him.
From Jobst's writing, he seems to interpret this as people being mad
that he's shot their sacred cows but I think it's more personal than
that for his antagonists. I think that at least some of them have felt
hurt and perhaps even publicly humiliated, even if that was not Jobst's
intent, and react towards him from that basis.
--
Faith is believing what you know ain't so.
-Mark Twain
sergio
> From Jobst's writing, he seems to interpret this as people being mad
> that he's shot their sacred cows but I think it's more personal than
> that for his antagonists. I think that at least some of them have felt
> hurt and perhaps even publicly humiliated, even if that was not Jobst's
> intent, and react towards him from that basis.
I would second your interpretation and, in fact, I might suggest a
test.
Suppose Jobst wrote a some posts anonimously, he wouldn't get such a
large turn out.
What a 'gedanken experiment' !
Sergio
Pisa
bicycle_disciple
> In article
> <3da7187a-8fe8-41df-91f7-b301affd2...@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
Tim,
Your interpretation makes sense, knowing human nature and newsgroups.
Its more frequent for people to overreact rather than accept something
unchangeable and move on (and that includes me too).
Thanks for the good comment.
sergio
Whatever happened to Bruce Hildenbrand who used to be so present in
rec.bicyles.rides/tech?
I seem to recall some heated arguments he had with Jobst.
Am I correct or having a senior moment?
I exchanged quite a few @-mail with Bruce and through him I was able
to contact his well known friend in Castagneto.
So where is Bruce? Does he still ride the Dolomites?
Sergio
Pisa
Tim McNamara
<bcfa40c6-082b-44af...@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
sergio <serv...@df.unipi.it> wrote:
> Whatever happened to Bruce Hildenbrand who used to be so present in
> rec.bicyles.rides/tech? I seem to recall some heated arguments he had
> with Jobst. Am I correct or having a senior moment?
I don't recall a blowout with Bruce and Jobst; Jobst mentions crossing
paths with Bruce on some of his rides in the Sierras. I do recall Bruce
announcing that he wouldn't be participating in rec.bikes any more
because he got a job writing for a bike magazine, and I remember him
writing about training in the mountains with Indurain and the Banesto
squad when they came to the States for some pre-Tour training.
Jobst Brandt
> Not being able to contribute to the blog, I ask a question here.
> Whatever happened to Bruce Hildenbrand who used to be so present in
> rec.bicyles.rides/tech?
> I seem to recall some heated arguments he had with Jobst. Am I
> correct or having a senior moment?
Bruce wrote mainly to rec.bicycles.racing and occasionally to .tech.
He and I rode on many interesting tours together and I haven't heard
from him in a while. When he did not write to the newsgroup my first
thought was he had gotten older and wiser and felt he didn't need to
write in any different tone than when we talked face to face. He also
signed his writings.
> I exchanged quite a few @-mail with Bruce and through him I was able
> to contact his well known friend in Castagneto.
> So where is Bruce? Does he still ride the Dolomites?
I don't know. I haven't seen him in a while.
Jobst Brandt
carl...@comcast.net
> In article
> <3da7187a-8fe8-41df-91f7-b301affd2...@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
Dear Tim,
Here's a fairly typical example of the problem:
#45 Carl Fogel wrote:
I used to think that bare bicycle rims with no spokes flattened quite
easily, but posts on RBT and turn-of-the century factory claims that a
man could stand on a bare no-spoke highwheeler rim have made me wonder
about this.
***
#48 Jobst replied:
They lied. Even though those were steel rims, many were U-shaped flat
material. You can sit on a bare MA-2 but it deforms enormously (about
1.5"). . . . I don't have any deep-V rims either . . . Well, my MA-2
did not take a set after I sat on it.
***
#49 Carl Fogel replied:
Sigh . . . What a nice post, except for where you call people you
don't know liars about something that you've never tested.
Here's what Rudge wrote about their 1887 highwheeler:
"The FELLOES are of the Clement hollow pattern, consisting of one
piece of steel tubing rolled and pressed into the proper shape, and
capable of bearing a weight of two hundred pounds, even before a
single spoke has been inserted."
http://tallbike.com/tall/87rudge.html
Why not consider the possibility that you may not know everything?
And why not consider what readers will think when you call Rudge liars
when I mention that their bare highwheel would support the weight of a
man, but then go on to state that your aluminum MA2 supported your 180
pound weight without taking a set, dropping a whole inch and a half
when you sat on it?
For all I know, you might even be right, but it's awfully hard to
credit you when you take such a bizarre approach.
***
Jobst replied:
Where did I mane Rudge as liars? I find your application of
translation to what others post unseemly and an obvious personal
attack. I also notice that you don't write such responses to those
who pass disinformation to the newsgroup in rudest manner.
***
Carl Fogel replied:
Er, don't you remember writing "They lied"?
***
The whole thread:
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
sergio
wrote:
Dear Carl,
you are confusing issues, if not plainly lying about
the whole matter.
In my Archives you lived around 1887.
So, who cares?
Yours faithfully.
Sergio
Pisa
Bad Idea
> In article
> <3da7187a-8fe8-41df-91f7-b301affd2...@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Right, it can't be that jobst is arrogant, or petty, or wrong . . .
Simon Lewis
Tom Sherman °_°
It would not be the first time that "Dear Carl" has made false accusations.
--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
sergio
It's been quite a few years since I ran across the story of some
'Bicycle Ttrip 19XX', when I instantly realized that the man knew well
the Alps.
Afterr noticing his competence in geography a direct exchange of tips
and advice followed.
I was even able to suggest to him deviations from the course he was
used to, which surely led him astray.
Never again did he ask me for help. But the point is that the first
time he did follow my advice.
So you see, Jobst is indeed an open person.
Point is that he has strongly rooted general knowledge and feelings;
so he would, after gauging the alternatives, very quickly go back to
his beaten path.
So does he, when planning trips, as in discussing bicycles, and, for
that matter, the mechanics of any machine. You name it.
Is he stubborn?
Maybe, but who is not he who has deep knowledge, if not faith?
Surely he was very amiable that time, over twenty years ago when I
called him up on the telephone from the Stanford University.
I rang the phone:
'Jobst', That was the answer.
Straight to the point. to anticipate, and so save, a possible insult
had I gone on to ask:
'Hello, is Job-st there?'
Yes, we shortly met in LA.
He was very nice and kind to us, the whole Servadio family. He showed
us around, handed over a book of photographs and even treated us to
chocolate at Ghirardelli's.
What more can you expect of a stranger, a frugal man himself, in a
country where, to my experience, generosity is not such a common
virtue?
We kept in contact, from time to time, through the years. He would
send me picture postcards from places like Giau and Stelvio, not
forgetting Xmas and New Year's Greetings.
From the very beginning was he aware that I am a rider, though
recreational, that cycles the Alps. Nevertheless, when I proposed to
meet together at Passo Gran San Bernardo, where he would pass by with
Brian Tomlin if I recall, he played shy, shunned me answering: 'But I
fly by ... '.
So is the man.
You can't take him off his course so easily.
However, I must again note and praise his generosity. He barely knew
me from internet when I asked him about his book, being interested in
it myself and my friend, a mechanical engineer.
We received two complimetary copies in the mail.
So, be nice to Jobst.
In real life he never bites.
Sergio
Pisa
Tim McNamara
Simon Lewis <simonle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Right, it can't be that jobst is arrogant, or petty, or wrong . . .
>
> Not in Tim's eyes. He seems to worship the man.
Respect, yes. Worship, nah. As a skeptic I don't worship anything.
But he has been one of the most informative participants in the
rec.bikes newsgroups. His technical posts have been far more often
correct than otherwise. The hoi polloi have chased out many of the
other writers with good technical knowledge. Jobst, Andy Muzi, Chalo
and Mike J in particular remain and are generous with their information
and knowledge. I for one am grateful.
bicycle_disciple
Here's the next installment in my interview with Jobst : http://bit.ly/bYF9Ge
There are lots more questions and answers in this one so I hope you
enjoy it!
Ben C
[...]
> Jobst has admitted error in the newsgroup when someone has proved him
> wrong, BTW.
He has?? Citation needed.
Tim McNamara
Ben C <spam...@spam.eggs> wrote:
The one that springs to mind was an experiment one of the posters did
regarding chain cleaning, testing Jobst's method of removing the chain
and soaking it in kerosene versus wiping down and lubing the chain on
the bike. The removed chain didn't wear any less quickly. Jobst
accepted the findings.
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Tim,
Is this post what you have in mind?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/13931948bb3a73ed?dmode=source
If so, you seem to be remembering it wrong.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
Lou Holtman
Are you all realizing that you are discussing a person who is not dead
yet? Embarrasing for Jobs, pathetic for everyone else. Another
discussion with a persons name in the subject line.....
Lou
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Lou,
So Ron should have waited until after the funeral to interview Jobst?
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
Jay Beattie
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:53:16 -0500, Tim McNamara
>
> <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> > Ben C <spams...@spam.eggs> wrote:
>
> >> On 2010-03-14, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote: [...]
> >> > Jobst has admitted error in the newsgroup when someone has proved
> >> > him wrong, BTW.
>
> >> He has?? Citation needed.
>
> >The one that springs to mind was an experiment one of the posters did
> >regarding chain cleaning, testing Jobst's method of removing the chain
> >and soaking it in kerosene versus wiping down and lubing the chain on
> >the bike. The removed chain didn't wear any less quickly. Jobst
> >accepted the findings.
>
> Dear Tim,
>
> Is this post what you have in mind?
>
>
> If so, you seem to be remembering it wrong.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel
I remember one about 10 or so years ago that had something to do with
headset race dimpling (not going to use brinelling) and the
orientation of the bearings and where the dimples should be (vague,
eh?). There was a pleasant exchange, and Jobst recognized that he had
gotten it wrong. I think if he is proved wrong, he relents -- like
most of us do. The deal is that we persist in areas where there is no
right and wrong, at least not an easily demonstrable right or wrong
(e.g. politics, lane stripes, bike color -- although red is faster).
Jobst will never give up his giant black truck conspiracy.-- Jay
Beattie.
Ben C
After he's dead we'll have to be nicer about him. Nil de mortuis nisi
bonum.
Ben C
> On Mar 15, 12:05 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:53:16 -0500, Tim McNamara
>>
>> <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>> >In article <slrnhprs10.3mf.spams...@bowser.marioworld>,
>> > Ben C <spams...@spam.eggs> wrote:
>>
>> >> On 2010-03-14, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote: [...]
>> >> > Jobst has admitted error in the newsgroup when someone has proved
>> >> > him wrong, BTW.
>>
>> >> He has?? Citation needed.
> I remember one about 10 or so years ago that had something to do with
> headset race dimpling (not going to use brinelling) and the
> orientation of the bearings and where the dimples should be (vague,
> eh?). There was a pleasant exchange, and Jobst recognized that he had
> gotten it wrong. I think if he is proved wrong, he relents -- like
> most of us do. The deal is that we persist in areas where there is no
> right and wrong, at least not an easily demonstrable right or wrong
He was very demonstrably wrong about his claim in a recent thread that
it was impossible to ride a 16:1 gear (or something about that size) on
rollers. Carl produced a video of someone doing just that and he started
suggesting there was a hidden electric motor driving the wheels.
But actually, now I come to think of it, he did admit that he was wrong
about ERD, and I was quite surprised by that.
The deal is you have to get him to understand that he was wrong, which
is much harder than merely proving it and explaining it repeatedly in
language a child could undersatnd.
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Jay,
When I looked, I couldn't find a post in which Jobst recognized that
he had gotten dimple-orientation wrong.
The closest thing that I found was this 2003 post:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/e0db35cc0d0afa5d
As far as I can tell, this doesn't match what you have in mind, a post
in which Jobst recognizes that he got dimple-orientation wrong.
Maybe I missed what you have in mind while I was browsing that long
2003 thread:
Or maybe it was in another thread?
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
Andrew Price
<tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
[---]
>The hoi polloi have chased out many of the
>other writers with good technical knowledge. Jobst, Andy Muzi, Chalo
>and Mike J in particular remain and are generous with their information
>and knowledge. I for one am grateful.
Ditto
Ben C
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:58:38 -0700 (PDT), Jay Beattie
><jbea...@lindsayhart.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mar 15, 12:05 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
>>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:53:16 -0500, Tim McNamara
>>>
>>> <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
>>> >In article <slrnhprs10.3mf.spams...@bowser.marioworld>,
>>> > Ben C <spams...@spam.eggs> wrote:
>>>
>>> >> On 2010-03-14, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote: [...]
>>> >> > Jobst has admitted error in the newsgroup when someone has proved
>>> >> > him wrong, BTW.
>>>
>>> >> He has?? Citation needed.
> Dear Jay,
>
> When I looked, I couldn't find a post in which Jobst recognized that
> he had gotten dimple-orientation wrong.
>
> The closest thing that I found was this 2003 post:
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/e0db35cc0d0afa5d
>
> As far as I can tell, this doesn't match what you have in mind, a post
> in which Jobst recognizes that he got dimple-orientation wrong.
>
> Maybe I missed what you have in mind while I was browsing that long
> 2003 thread:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_frm/thread/8e1fbb09d74a0027/bceaa006b7a92bf2#bceaa006b7a92bf2
>
> Or maybe it was in another thread?
This dimple thread was before my time. But here is the post I was
thinking of:
It even starts with the words "I was wrong about that".
This of course means _I_ was wrong to say he never admits he's wrong...
sergio
> Are you all realizing that you are discussing a person who is not dead
> yet?
Me too?
I know full well he is still with us.
By the way Jobst, since you read me, I am planning a one week bike
trip this coming summer.
Any chance we come across each other?
Sergio
Pisa
Lou Holtman
> On 15 Mar, 20:19, Lou Holtman<lhollaatditmaar...@planet.nl> wrote:
>> Are you all realizing that you are discussing a person who is not dead
>> yet?
>
> Me too?
No you from Italy ;-) and you actually met him.
Lou
Frank Krygowski
I recall Jobst admitting his mistake in visualizing the motion of the
brake shoes with Shimano's parallelogram-linkage V-brake. Sheldon
Brown explained Jobst's error, and Jobst immediately accepted the
explanation.
- Frank Krygowski
Andre Jute
> Op 15-3-2010 14:53, Tim McNamara schreef:
>
> > Ben C<spams...@spam.eggs> wrote:
>
> >> On 2010-03-14, Tim McNamara<tim...@bitstream.net> wrote: [...]
> >>> Jobst has admitted error in the newsgroup when someone has proved
> >>> him wrong, BTW.
>
> >> He has?? Citation needed.
>
> > The one that springs to mind was an experiment one of the posters did
> > regarding chain cleaning, testing Jobst's method of removing the chain
> > and soaking it in kerosene versus wiping down and lubing the chain on
> > the bike. The removed chain didn't wear any less quickly. Jobst
> > accepted the findings.
>
> Are you all realizing that you are discussing a person who is not dead
> yet? Embarrasing for Jobs, pathetic for everyone else. Another
> discussion with a persons name in the subject line.....
>
> Lou
Anyone who still expects good manners on the net hasn't been paying
attention...
I was shocked about ten years ago when I first realized the amount of
hatred out there on the net. The distinguished magazine Hi-Fi News and
Record Review (HFN&RR) gave my then audio netsite (much bigger than
the present one) a rave review. The editor who wrote the review was
immediately inundated with abuse from the hate merchants demanding
that he take back anything nice he said about me. The editor wrote to
one of these hate-merchants, Michael LaFevre of Philadelphia: "My call
recorder shows that I have had six calls from the US today, and I have
received no less than eleven emails from the USA all basically full of
childish pathetic backbiting trivia which simply does not interest me
- please kindly stop pestering me in this way." (He copied the letter
to me and gave me permission to publish it.) Six international calls!
They filled up his message machine, over a hundred dollars worth of
hatred spewed out to a machine! Plus 11 lengthy e-mails! When I -- no
shrinking violet either! -- publicly confronted them with their
psychopathic behaviour
http://groups.google.ie/group/rec.audio.tubes/browse_thread/thread/8ba8288fb330b95f/6177b11af92e62df?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=%22Stuart+Perry%22+%2BLaFevre#6177b11af92e62df
they weren't even embarrassed; there's a lot of scum out there on the
net.
So no, I'm not surprised when all the comments on one of Ron's earlier
blogs consisted only of disgruntled fools spewing their hatred of
Jobst, or discovering that on RBT there is not a single comment about
the extraordinary things Jobst has done, as vividly reported by Ron,
only vapid, petty squabbling about whether Jobst ever admitted he got
some small thing wrong.
Jesus wept.
Makes one appreciate Sergio's balance all the more, but as you say a
bit later on, he's an Italian.
Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information for the tube audio
constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site containing vital gems of
wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Ben,
Nice find--thanks.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Frank,
Good memory--that thread was in 1998:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/c8ae027e65d8d987
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Ben,
For anyone curious about Jobst's motor hidden in the roller stand
claim:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/f4347a248e65c17b
The gearing is 232 inches. In the 1986 BBC video, Le Grys goes 126.6
mph to break a 102 mph roller record set in 1982. The fellow bending
over and steadying the frame is obviously not lifting Le Grys in the
air. You can see the front tire moving slightly from side to side
around 2:55. And so on.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
Jay Beattie
>
> Or maybe it was in another thread?
Maybe. I didn't look through all of he posts, but it was something to
do with the number of bearings and orientation of dimples. I thought
it was longer ago, though. Looking through the older posts makes me
sad that we have lost so many people who were informed and
interesting. -- Jay Beattie.
Frank Krygowski
Good grief. I'm obviously wasting too much brain space on r.b.tech!
- Frank Krygowski
Jobst Brandt
>>>>>>> Jobst has admitted error in the newsgroup when someone has
>>>>>>> proved him wrong, BTW.
>>>>>> He has?? Citation needed.
>>>>> The one that springs to mind was an experiment one of the
>>>>> posters did regarding chain cleaning, testing Jobst's method of
>>>>> removing the chain and soaking it in kerosene versus wiping down
>>>>> and lubing the chain on the bike. The removed chain didn't wear
>>>>> any less quickly. Jobst accepted the findings.
>>>> Is this post what you have in mind?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/13931948bb3a73ed...
>>>> If so, you seem to be remembering it wrong.
>>> I remember one about 10 or so years ago that had something to do
>>> with headset race dimpling (not going to use brinelling) and the
>>> orientation of the bearings and where the dimples should be
>>> (vague, eh?). There was a pleasant exchange, and Jobst recognized
>>> that he had gotten it wrong. I think if he is proved wrong, he
>>> relents -- like most of us do. The deal is that we persist in
>>> areas where there is no right and wrong, at least not an easily
>>> demonstrable right or wrong (e.g. politics, lane stripes, bike
>>> color -- although red is faster). Jobst will never give up his
>>> giant black truck conspiracy.
>> When I looked, I couldn't find a post in which Jobst recognized
>> that he had gotten dimple-orientation wrong.
>> The closest thing that I found was this 2003 post:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/e0db35cc0d0afa5d
>> As far as I can tell, this doesn't match what you have in mind, a
>> post in which Jobst recognizes that he got dimple-orientation
>> wrong.
>> Maybe I missed what you have in mind while I was browsing that long
>> 2003 thread:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_frm/thread/8e...
>> Or maybe it was in another thread?
> Maybe. I didn't look through all of he posts, but it was something
> to do with the number of bearings and orientation of dimples. I
> thought it was longer ago, though. Looking through the older posts
> makes me sad that we have lost so many people who were informed and
> interesting.
Because the dimples are caused by tilting the plane of the races with
respect to each other because the steertube flexes (on bicycles larger
that 20" or so) the dimples will be mainly in the fore and aft
quadrant in both acing races when they are in the straight ahead
position.
I think all this was discussed at length at the time when I said that
these dimples were fretting wear rather than Brinelling. As proof, I
cited that no one has seen Brinelling in BB's where cotters were
hammered into the cranks on installation.
Some threads never die!
Jobst Brandt
thirty-six
Steerer threads will live forever.
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Frank,
Think of the alternative:
The First Step Is Admitting You Have a Problem. We Forget What the
Second Step Is.
"Absent-Mindedness is a Middle-Aged Male Problem, Research
Shows"--headline, Guardian (London), March 12
http://tinyurl.com/ylx7mt3
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
Ben C
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:48:08 -0500, Ben C <spam...@spam.eggs> wrote:
>>This dimple thread was before my time. But here is the post I was
>>thinking of:
>>
>>http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_thread/thread/f9883119d92f6aaa/79088375db2c5cb6?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=#79088375db2c5cb6
>>
>>It even starts with the words "I was wrong about that".
>>
>>This of course means _I_ was wrong to say he never admits he's wrong...
>
> Dear Ben,
>
> Nice find--thanks.
It was such a rare and remarkable moment of lucidity I saved the whole
post.
bicycle_disciple
Thank you for the kind reception from rec.bicycles.tech! And also a
big thank you to Jobst!
-Ron George
http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com