Chain Lubricant Options
Jay Richolson
generally in dry conditions??
Richard Tack
> Any thoughts on the best choice of chain lubricant for a road bike ridden
> generally in dry conditions??
Oh, boy! We're not even done with the
"Barium Grease Wars" yet.
Dave Thompson
"Richard Tack" <tickyta...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:6NXcd.1671$gq2.661@trnddc01...
Larry
Lighting. The rest are real messy and don't do a better job. I have tried
most of them over the last 10 years. Must be Original, Race Day and the
newer one (Epic I think is the name) are also very messy.
"Jay Richolson" <inns...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:1BXcd.17692$54.3...@typhoon.sonic.net...
Werehatrack
wrote:
>Any thoughts on the best choice of chain lubricant for a road bike ridden
>generally in dry conditions??
This has been discussed to death here.
Rest assured that you will get divergent answers, sometimes wildly so.
The economically-minded tend to use inexpensive lubricants like motor
oil, chain saw oil, gear lubricant, etc. Others swaer by one boutique
chain lube or another. Then there's a group (loosely speaking) in
which various things like paraffin wax, spray lubes not sold for this
purpose and various other products are employed.
Every user who is happy with their current lubricant is likely to
recommend it.
Choose what you think will work for you. Change to something else if
it doesn't. Measure your chain wear regularly enough to catch it
before it goes too far, and remember that chains are (usually) just an
inexpensive wear item, not something that you have to expend
tremendous effort safeguarding lest your pocket get picked severely
when it needs replacing.
(There are almost as many divergent opinions about the need for, and
correct way to perform, periodic chain cleaning...and the same advice
as above is probably applicable.)
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
Werehatrack
I decided to take that thread literally, and buried it unread.
Bob Wheeler
> Any thoughts on the best choice of chain lubricant for a road bike ridden
> generally in dry conditions??
>
>
started riding as an adult, some 45 years ago. It's clean, and I've
never had any sort of chain trouble. As far as I can tell, my chains
last as long as anyone's.
--
Bob Wheeler --- http://www.bobwheeler.com/
ECHIP, Inc. ---
Randomness comes in bunches.
B.B.
"Jay Richolson" <inns...@sonic.net> wrote:
>Any thoughts on the best choice of chain lubricant for a road bike ridden
>generally in dry conditions??
I use chainsaw bar and chain oil, but it's really really messy.
--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail.net
d...@florence.edu
wrote:
>On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:22:39 GMT, Werehatrack
><rau...@earthWEEDSlink.net> wrote:
>
>>Measure your chain wear regularly enough to catch it
>>before it goes too far, and remember that chains are (usually) just an
>>inexpensive wear item, not something that you have to expend
>>tremendous effort safeguarding lest your pocket get picked severely
>>when it needs replacing.
>
>Actually, (dare I dwelve into beaten territory) you've hit the key
>point. Who cares about a chain? I expect I'll always be able to buy
>a chain or recycle one from a lesser used bike when they are extinct.
>But chainwheel wear... that worries me. So the question would be: what
>lube will reduce wear on my chainwheels? (now you can say "same
>discussion" :-)
>
Good point some chains have softer rollers yet still have hard pins
and sidelinks. The KMC Z50 chain i'm currently using appears to be
this design. After 3000 miles there is only a 1/16 " of stretch but
the rollers are starting to look concave? The Falcon freewheel the
chain has been running on still has not worn through the nickel
plating on the teeth after 5000 miles and this is a very inexpensive
freewheel.
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
> Any thoughts on the best choice of chain lubricant for a road bike
> ridden generally in dry conditions??
http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8d.2.html
Jobst Brandt
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
B.B.
Bob Wheeler <bwhe...@echip.com> wrote:
>Jay Richolson wrote:
>> Any thoughts on the best choice of chain lubricant for a road bike ridden
>> generally in dry conditions??
>>
>>
>I've used paraffin (the wax kind not coal oil) since shortly after I
>started riding as an adult, some 45 years ago. It's clean, and I've
>never had any sort of chain trouble. As far as I can tell, my chains
>last as long as anyone's.
Any chance of recycled candle wax working? Or is that a hopeless
venture? I have a "brick" of wax I made from miscellaneous old candle
remains a long while ago just for the hell of it. Would be nice if I
could find a use, but I suspect this isn't one....
Jacobe Hazzard
I remember reading somewhere that candle wax has additives that make it
unsuitable for chain lubrication, I think it's brittle and flakes out too
easily. I'm not certain about this one but I doubt it would work. Try it
and see.
Jeff Wills
> generally in dry conditions??
Jay, as the others have pointed out, you should search the archives
(try "chain lube") before asking such questions. This is a subject
that has been covered many times before in minute detail.
In geek terms, STFW! (Search The Freakin' Web!)
Jeff
carl...@comcast.net
<rau...@earthWEEDSlink.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:50:42 GMT, Richard Tack
><tickyta...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
>>Jay Richolson wrote:
>>
>>> Any thoughts on the best choice of chain lubricant for a road bike ridden
>>> generally in dry conditions??
>>
>>Oh, boy! We're not even done with the
>>"Barium Grease Wars" yet.
>
>I decided to take that thread literally, and buried it unread.
>
Dear Werehatrack,
My hero! Best pun of the year!
Admiringly,
Carl Fogel
Ron Hardin
--
Ron Hardin
rhha...@mindspring.com
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
Bob Wheeler
I've used candle wax. It seems to work.
Chain wear occurs mostly because dirt gets inside on the rollers.
Paraffin provides no transport mechanism, so that is good. It does not,
however, lubricate as well as oil, because it is not replenished. It is
a trade off: I have always opted for a clean chain, and if it makes for
a shorter chain life, which I do not know happens, I'm willing to pay
the price of a new chain.
SuperSlinky
> Any thoughts on the best choice of chain lubricant for a road bike ridden
> generally in dry conditions??
Jay, while it is true that this has been done many times here, I think
it is a little bit sad that most people took the time to make an
obnoxious response, but didn't bother to share what they thought. Many
people here will tell you that motor oil or chain saw bar oil is the way
to go to lube a chain. I have tried this and it works well as a
lubricant, but the problem is that it gets horribly dirty and messy
blazingly fast. This can be a problem if, for example, you have a new
bright yellow Assos jacket that you paid over $100 for and would like to
keep it looking decent for a while. Wax based lubes like Finish Line
stay the cleanest and driest, but IMO their value as a lubricant is
questionable. Still you may want to try different ones to see if you
like any of them. That's what I'm doing. The lube I like best so far is
Pro Link Gold. It does its job as a lube and isn't as messy as oil, but
it still gets dirty, as will everything else to different degrees.
I clean my chains about once every 150 miles or so by soaking them in
naptha, a somewhat hard to find solvent. Nothing else I have tried
compares for instantly dissolving chain gunk. A little bit on a paper
towel is also excellent for cleaning grease off derailleurs and other
parts. I'm out of naptha now and plan to try Coleman fuel next to see if
it works as well since it appears to be just a less refined version of
naptha.
Jeff Starr
wrote:
>WD40 when it squeaks or gets wet. Leave it alone otherwise.
This is not good advice. WD-40 is not really a lubricant, it is
designed to displace moisture. It is really great if your spark plug
wires or distributor cap get wet. If you wait for it to squeak, you
are putting more wear on all the other related components, like the
cassette and chainwheels.
For the OP, go to your LBS and get what they recommend. If they have a
variety, then try which ever one appeals to you. All the lubes
designed for chain use will do a decent job.
For a spray on lube, try Finish LineTeflon Plus Dry Lube. I used it on
one bike and it does an ok job, definitely superior to WD-40. I'm now
using Pro Link Chain Lube. If used on a clean chain, it goes on clear.
If applied to a dirty chain, it will run off black. Either way, it
will lube your chain. Overall, I like it a lot and it is reasonably
priced. It sells for $7.50 list, for a 4oz bottle, which should last
you all year.
I use Shimano's best chain for 9-speed, their Dura-Ace/XTR CN-7701, I
get them on sale for $19.95, with other discounts, as little as $15.
So at that price, I keep them clean and lubed, but I don't obsess over
them.
WD-40, is better than nothing, but there are so many other options. If
you do a search in rec.bicycle.tech, you will find, long threads on
this subject, with advice from many of our respected members.
Life is Good!
Jeff
Dan Daniel
wrote:
>Any thoughts on the best choice of chain lubricant for a road bike ridden
>generally in dry conditions??
>
For years I used TriFlo oil. Drip it on each roller, spin the chain,
then wipe off as much as possible. Depending on mood, I'd add new oil
or do a complete removal/solvent dip/reoil every couple of hundred
miles. One nice thing is that the small bottle of TriFlo is convenient
to carry on a tour. It is also usable on pivots, cables, etc. Add a
tube of Phil Wood grease and some WD-40 for cleaning and my biking
petrochemical needs are set for a couple of years.
In the last year I started using ProLink on the chain. It is thinner
than TriFlo and collects less dirt. Life of the chains seem about the
same. It doesn't hold up in the rain like the TriFlo so relubing after
rain is necessary.
Maybe I should have technical reasons for my choices, lots of
experiments and tests, etc. But I don't. The reasons for my choices
are based on other things. I don't want to have to decant motor oil
into containers that are usable on a bicycle. Nor do I want a tub of
grease sitting around for fifteen years, with the typical cracked lid
and coating of sand embedded in grease on all surfaces. Small bottles
and tubes that are easy to use are worth a few dollars to me.
I like the smell of Phil Wood grease. I like the look of my chain
using ProLink- cleaner, but I miss the smell of TriFlo when lubing the
chain.
If your chain doesn't squeak and it stays reasonably clean of heavy
caked dirt, your lube is probably doing just fine.
neil0502
> I miss the smell of TriFlo when lubing the
> chain.
Yeah, what is that? Banana bread?? Mmmmm.
On a slightly more serious note, ProLink must be puttin' nicotine in
their lube . . . cuz I'm hooked, too.
Started on the road bike, transitioned over to the mtb. It does do a
straight-up job of keeping that metal . . . what's the word I'm
searching for? Effulgent. Yeah, that's it.
Also seems to keep the drivetrain silent through water and filth.....
Long live the chain lube threads!
Terry Morse
> I clean my chains about once every 150 miles or so by soaking them in
> naptha, a somewhat hard to find solvent.
Naptha's a pretty hazardous material to be using it as a solvent.
Vapors are harmful, and the flash point is 122F. There are safer
alternatives. Wear gloves, use in well ventilated areas only, and
keep the container closed.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
Alex Rodriguez
bwhe...@echip.com says...
>I've used paraffin (the wax kind not coal oil) since shortly after I
>started riding as an adult, some 45 years ago. It's clean, and I've
>never had any sort of chain trouble. As far as I can tell, my chains
>last as long as anyone's.
I too use to wax. Worked well for me. The only problem is that you need
to re-wax fairly often. Getting caught in the rain meant re-waxing or riding a
squeeky chain. One summer I kept getting caught in the rain, so I just stopped
waxing and went to oil. Oil will last through a few rainy rides.
--------------
Alex
Alex Rodriguez
DoNotSpa...@airmail.net.com.org.gov.tw.ch.ru says...
> Any chance of recycled candle wax working? Or is that a hopeless
>venture? I have a "brick" of wax I made from miscellaneous old candle
>remains a long while ago just for the hell of it. Would be nice if I
>could find a use, but I suspect this isn't one....
Yes, that will work.
-------------
Alex
TBGibb
"B.B." <DoNotSpa...@airmail.net.com.org.gov.tw.ch.ru> writes:
>In article <1BXcd.17692$54.3...@typhoon.sonic.net>,
> "Jay Richolson" <inns...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>>Any thoughts on the best choice of chain lubricant for a road bike ridden
>>generally in dry conditions??
>
> I use chainsaw bar and chain oil, but it's really really messy.
Use very small amounts. Home Depot has an oiler that dispenses an
appropropriate amount.
Tom Gibb <TBG...@aol.com>
Alex Rodriguez
says...
>Any thoughts on the best choice of chain lubricant for a road bike ridden
>generally in dry conditions??
What comes on the chain out of the package is great stuff. Wipe off the excess
from the outside of the chain. When you clean the chain and you have to add
lube, good old motor oil works great. If you want to splurge, get synthetic
motor oil. A quart bottle will last a really, really long time. Once again,
wipe off the excess oil from the outside of the chain.
-------------
Alex
Frank Krygowski
>
> I too use to wax. Worked well for me. The only problem is that you need
> to re-wax fairly often. Getting caught in the rain meant re-waxing or riding a
> squeeky chain. One summer I kept getting caught in the rain, so I just stopped
> waxing and went to oil. Oil will last through a few rainy rides.
If you use paraffin wax that has a bit (maybe 5%) oil blended into it,
it lasts much longer and doesn't squeak after a rainy ride. That's what
I've used for years.
--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com.
Substitute cc dot ysu dot
edu]
Frank Krygowski
>
> I like the smell of Phil Wood grease.
:-) Maybe this really is the best way to choose a chain lube? Maybe
they should be marketed based on smell?
"Lemon fresh scent" for the people who keep their polished bikes in the
living room. "Skunk Oil" for the off-road crew.
Mmmm, mmm! Hot paraffin! Yum! ;-)
Frank Krygowski
>
> I clean my chains about once every 150 miles or so...
Wow.
Paul Kopit
<DoNotSpa...@airmail.net.com.org.gov.tw.ch.ru> wrote:
>Any chance of recycled candle wax working?
Candle wax contains stearic acid. It's there to make the candle
harder and to keep the candle shape in hot weather. The wax is more
brittle. Should you choose to use candle wax, it will chip off the
chain and be an even poorer lubricant than plain canning wax.
I hot wax my chains.
rcoder
most hardware stores very cheaply, and while you definitely don't want
to inhale too many fumes, it's not nearly as dangerous as petrochemical
solvents. I've found it to be a great general-purpose solvent, and
unlike naptha, et. al., I can use it on and around painted areas of the
bike without fear of softenening or stripping the paint.
Weisse Luft
Naptha is a light C6-C10 mix of hydrocarbons, originally used by varnish
makers and painters, hence its common industry name of VM&P naptha. It
dries more rapidly than regular paint thinner but is almost equal to
low odor mineral spirits. It should not soften modern bike finishes
but could soften older alkyd based paints on classic bicycles. Low
odor paint thinner is a great substitute and is inexpensive. I use
regular paint thinner as it is cheap and safer than gasoline. It dries
fast enough but a chain needs a bit of forced heating to remove all
traces. I heat the chain with a 50W lightbulb and it dries in about 30
minutes.
Alcohols do not cut oil and grease as well as naptha and will not touch
most synthetics. Acetone will work but its dangerous. forget Coleman
stove fuel, its just white gasoline. Diesel is also out because it
evaporates at a snails pace and is quite smelly.
--
Weisse Luft
Rick Warner
>
> I remember reading somewhere that candle wax has additives that make it
> unsuitable for chain lubrication, I think it's brittle and flakes out too
> easily. I'm not certain about this one but I doubt it would work. Try it
> and see.
Ahh, but you can have that nice vanilla, cinammon, gardenia, or
whatever scent to your chain ;-)
- rick
Frank Krygowski
Like I said, pick your chain lubricant based on scent! It's as good a
method as any!
Mark D
Maptha is easily gotten from places like Home Depot/Lowes in the Paint
Section. (Works great for filling the Zippo Lighters too, and is cheaper
buying in bulk!)
Now Acetone, is another matter. Essentially this was what Nail Polish
Remover was made of. Not only that, Acetone is very highly toxic.
Denatured Alcohol is a good metal cleaner (Good for cleaning Tape Heads)
but as far as removing grease/crud, the Naptha will be a better choice.
Mark D.
(Pete Cresswell)
>I've used paraffin (the wax kind not coal oil) since shortly after I
>started riding as an adult, some 45 years ago. It's clean, and I've
>never had any sort of chain trouble. As far as I can tell, my chains
>last as long as anyone's.
Do you have a dedicated pot full of the stuff that you just drop the chain on
and heat? If so, what do you use as a heat source? I was doing it for
awhile, heating over a propane burner out in the back yard - far away from
anything flammable...but quit once it dawned on me that eventually I'd walk away
from it and forget it was on...
--
PeteCresswell
Dan Daniel
<frkr...@mousepotato.com> wrote:
>Dan Daniel wrote:
>
>>
>> I like the smell of Phil Wood grease.
>
>:-) Maybe this really is the best way to choose a chain lube? Maybe
>they should be marketed based on smell?
>
Seems as good as any from all I've seen around here.
>"Lemon fresh scent" for the people who keep their polished bikes in the
>living room. "Skunk Oil" for the off-road crew.
>
>Mmmm, mmm! Hot paraffin! Yum! ;-)
Hey, I thought we were talking smell here, not taste!
Hmmmm... do they still make those wax candies filled with sugar water?
Or those wax lips for Halloween? Could be a whole years supply in the
leftovers on All Saint's Day.
Steve Knight
>Any thoughts on the best choice of chain lubricant for a road bike ridden
>generally in dry conditions??
>
I have been playing with lubes and had planned to post my results. getting
whacked by a car delayed things (G) so far the longest lasting lubes I have
found are purple extreme dumonde? I can't remember how it's spelled voo dew. all
work well and you can get about 400 miles between applications. purple extreme
would not work well the way I usually lube my chains. that's but cleaning
thoroughly off the bike applying to the lings moving the links around and wiping
off the excess and installing. I would get chain squeak after a few miles. I
don't know if this was because the temps were about 90 or what. the instructions
say apply and for best results wait overnight. I did find if I used it on a
space chain and let it sit for a month and wipe it down I got almost no black on
the chain in that 400 miles. that's fantastic. not sure how it would last in the
rain as I was riding in the rain when I got hit (G) the other two worked just as
well but tended to attract black. though not as bad as most stuff sold in the
bike shop.
http://www.voodew.com/
http://www.purpleextreme.com/
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
>> Any thoughts on the best choice of chain lubricant for a road bike
>> ridden generally in dry conditions??
> I have been playing with lubes and had planned to post my results.
> Getting whacked by a car delayed things (G) so far the longest
> lasting lubes I have found are purple extreme dumonde? I can't
> remember how it's spelled voo dew. All work well and you can get
> about 400 miles between applications. Purple extreme would not work
> well the way I usually lube my chains. That's but cleaning
> thoroughly off the bike applying to the lings moving the links
> around and wiping off the excess and installing. I would get chain
> squeak after a few miles. I don't know if this was because the
> temps were about 90 or what. The instructions say apply and for
> best results wait overnight. I did find if I used it on a space
> chain and let it sit for a month and wipe it down I got almost no
> black on the chain in that 400 miles. That's fantastic. Not sure
> how it would last in the rain as I was riding in the rain when I got
> hit (G) the other two worked just as well but tended to attract
> black. Though not as bad as most stuff sold in the bike shop.
> http://www.voodew.com/
> http://www.purpleextreme.com/
Recently an experiment was made to determine whether cleaning a chain
before re-oiling improves durability and the results posted here in
this newsgroup. The chain was marked and split in two for cleaning
only one half, before reassembling and lubricating. Each time the
elongation (pitch wear) was measured. The cleaned portion showed more
wear than the one that was only re-oiled. I have no way of verifying
the measurements but there is no reason to doubt the results.
However, I reviewed the process.
What I found was that sloshing the chain in solvent externally cleans
the chain but on putting the "cleaned" chain in clean solvent and
sloshing it around while lying on its side, substantial fine grit came
out of the apparently clean chain.
I also tried this by agitating the chain under water with dishwater
detergent and achieved the same result. My conclusion is that unless
the chain is thoroughly cleaned internally, cosmetically cleaning with
solvent does no good and probably is worse than not cleaning.
Therefore, testimonials that praise one or another lubricant may not
have anything to do with chain wear since that has more to do with
cleaning or leaving caked grit where it is. Thin, solvent like
lubricants may be the worst offenders by that test.
Jobst Brandt
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
Tim McNamara
> Recently an experiment was made to determine whether cleaning a
> chain before re-oiling improves durability and the results posted
> here in this newsgroup. The chain was marked and split in two for
> cleaning only one half, before reassembling and lubricating. Each
> time the elongation (pitch wear) was measured. The cleaned portion
> showed more wear than the one that was only re-oiled. I have no way
> of verifying the measurements but there is no reason to doubt the
> results. However, I reviewed the process.
I remember that post, and I remember being surprised by the results
since they were counter to the canonical recommendations.
> What I found was that sloshing the chain in solvent externally
> cleans the chain but on putting the "cleaned" chain in clean solvent
> and sloshing it around while lying on its side, substantial fine
> grit came out of the apparently clean chain.
>
> I also tried this by agitating the chain under water with dishwater
> detergent and achieved the same result. My conclusion is that
> unless the chain is thoroughly cleaned internally, cosmetically
> cleaning with solvent does no good and probably is worse than not
> cleaning.
Interesting. Many of us use the two chain method of alternating
chains, swapping a cleaned on for the dirty one to be cleaned, and so
forth. Soaking and agitating the chain in solvent isn't enough,
obviously, and a second cleaning in fresh solvent shows this to be the
case. Is it even possible to clean out a chain adequately by
agitating it in solvent? How does one clean the chain thoroughly
internally without spending an inordinate amount of time?
> Therefore, testimonials that praise one or another lubricant may not
> have anything to do with chain wear since that has more to do with
> cleaning or leaving caked grit where it is. Thin, solvent like
> lubricants may be the worst offenders by that test.
We've been cautioning against "washing in" crud into the links with
lubes for years (and cleaning chains in solvent to prevent this).
Since that post was published, I've taken to just wiping down the
chain as throughly as I can before relubing, and thus far have not
seen my chains wearing out any faster than with the solvent method. I
don't track the mileage closely, though. I've been using ProLink with
good results, regardless of the accuracy of their claims, although not
obviously better results than motor oil which is at least 20X cheaper.
Matt O'Toole
This makes perfect sense.
I've been able to get a chain perfectly clean (ie, solvent runs clear) via three
methods. One, strong solvents like electrical contact cleaner used in a jar.
This works great but is environmentally noxious. Two, a pressure washer.
Finally, an ultrasonic cleaning unit works great, and is a lot simpler/cheaper
than you might think. Brand new they're several hundred dollars, but you can
get used or surplus ones really cheap. I wish I hadn't gotten rid of mine.
Recently I've been using automotive parts cleaner in a parts washer can, because
it's a neat, self-contained system. However, the chain is still giving off
black stuff when I relube it, so obviously it's not working well.
I haven't tried the dishwasher/laundry detergent, but it seems like a good idea.
How clean are you able to get your chain, and by what method?
> Therefore, testimonials that praise one or another lubricant may not
> have anything to do with chain wear since that has more to do with
> cleaning or leaving caked grit where it is. Thin, solvent like
> lubricants may be the worst offenders by that test.
Yup.
However, thin, solvent like lubes loosen dirt and keep it from caking on so
stubbornly, allowing it to be blasted away with a hose or pressure washer. With
this method, I used thin oil or ATF.
Matt O.
Bob Wheeler
Put a pot of water on the kitchen stove. Put the chain in a can with the
paraffin and set it in the water and bring to a boil. Let it cook for
a while. Fish the chain out and hang it over a coat hanger. I generally
throw the can and paraffin away to avoid a mess.
Steve Knight
>What I found was that sloshing the chain in solvent externally cleans
>the chain but on putting the "cleaned" chain in clean solvent and
>sloshing it around while lying on its side, substantial fine grit came
>out of the apparently clean chain.
I use acetone it works really well inside and out. takes 3 or 4 times to get all
of it.
I had been wanting to test the reoiling part too.
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
>> Recently an experiment was made to determine whether cleaning a
>> chain before re-oiling improves durability and the results posted
>> here in this newsgroup. The chain was marked and split in two for
>> cleaning only one half, before reassembling and lubricating. Each
>> time the elongation (pitch wear) was measured. The cleaned portion
>> showed more wear than the one that was only re-oiled. I have no
>> way of verifying the measurements but there is no reason to doubt
>> the results. However, I reviewed the process.
> I remember that post, and I remember being surprised by the results
> since they were counter to the canonical recommendations.
>> What I found was that sloshing the chain in solvent externally
>> cleans the chain but on putting the "cleaned" chain in clean
>> solvent and sloshing it around while lying on its side, substantial
>> fine grit came out of the apparently clean chain.
>> I also tried this by agitating the chain under water with liquid
>> detergent and achieved the same result. My conclusion is that
>> unless the chain is thoroughly cleaned internally, cosmetically
>> cleaning with solvent does no good and probably is worse than not
>> cleaning.
> Interesting. Many of us use the two chain method of alternating
> chains, swapping a cleaned on for the dirty one to be cleaned, and
> so forth. Soaking and agitating the chain in solvent isn't enough,
> obviously, and a second cleaning in fresh solvent shows this to be
> the case. Is it even possible to clean out a chain adequately by
> agitating it in solvent? How does one clean the chain thoroughly
> internally without spending an inordinate amount of time?
That depends on the chain and its cost. The SRAM 8-speed chains I use
now and buy in large quantities are probably not worth the effort both
because they are inexpensive and because they don't last long. In
contrast the Regina CX-S chains had about 5-6 time the life and were
worth cleaning. I still have one or two of these and am considering
just saving them for putting them on some antique bicycle, just as we
should have done with the last Diamond brand block chains.
>> Therefore, testimonials that praise one or another lubricant may
>> not have anything to do with chain wear since that has more to do
>> with cleaning or leaving caked grit where it is. Thin, solvent
>> like lubricants may be the worst offenders by that test.
> We've been cautioning against "washing in" crud into the links with
> lubes for years (and cleaning chains in solvent to prevent this).
> Since that post was published, I've taken to just wiping down the
> chain as throughly as I can before relubing, and thus far have not
> seen my chains wearing out any faster than with the solvent method.
> I don't track the mileage closely, though. I've been using ProLink
> with good results, regardless of the accuracy of their claims,
> although not obviously better results than motor oil which is at
> least 20X cheaper.
I usually don't do anything to my chains over the summer, here where
it rarely rains in that time, however, when touring in the Alps, rain
is common and that is where I became aware of the cleansing of water.
If the chain squeaks when dried after a longer run in rain, it is not
only devoid of lubricant but also of most grit. When that occurs, I
use motor oil from a discarded oil container found in the trash at a
gas station, pouring it carefully on the bottom run of the chain as I
turn the pedals backwards.
Jobst Brandt
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
> How clean are you able to get your chain, and by what method?
Clean enough that I cannot elicit any more "grey matter" from the
chain. I believe the chain is about as clean as it can get in the
realm of visible and effective grit. If you take a "modern" chain
apart, all elements fall apart so that you can rub a clean cloth over
their surfaces. You could try that with a white paper towel and see
if you can get any dirt. I doubt that there will be any after a
cleaning with hot water and liquid detergent.
I should add that I first scrub the chain, coiled flat on its side,
with a stiff brush to remove external dirt.
Jobst Brandt
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
carl...@comcast.net
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
[snip]
>I
>use motor oil from a discarded oil container found in the trash at a
>gas station, pouring it carefully on the bottom run of the chain as I
>turn the pedals backwards.
>
>Jobst Brandt
>jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
Dear Gene,
I see that--
Oh. Sorry, Jobst, I mistook you for someone else.
Never mind.
Carl Fogel
Frank Krygowski
>
> Put a pot of water on the kitchen stove. Put the chain in a can with the
> paraffin and set it in the water and bring to a boil. Let it cook for a
> while. Fish the chain out and hang it over a coat hanger. I generally
> throw the can and paraffin away to avoid a mess.
>
Alternately, do it with the chain on the bike. Put the bike on a
workstand, and heat chain in it's lower free span, using a propane torch
on low flame.
More detail: Warm the 8" of chain; use a chunk of the solid wax/oil
mixture as a crayon, and crayon it onto the chain; warm the chain again
until the wax/oil melts and flows into the chain pivots; backpedal 8"
and repeat.
When done, wipe excess off with paper towels. Before beginning, protect
the floor with newspapers. Takes about 5 minutes, lasts many hundreds
of miles.
Paul Kopit
wrote:
>Put a pot of water on the kitchen stove. Put the chain in a can with the
> paraffin and set it in the water and bring to a boil. Let it cook for
>a while. Fish the chain out and hang it over a coat hanger. I generally
>throw the can and paraffin away to avoid a mess.
IMHO, a double boiler doesn't get the chain hot enough to displace the
surface moisture, which is not soluble in the parrafin. The result is
that you get a chain with excess wax on sideplates and little wax into
the surface of the pin part of the link.
I use a small electric fry pan, that was some sort of fondue pot and
heat the wax to ~300 degrees, covered and outdoors. A find to do the
same thing is one of "Fry Babies". Garage sales and flea markets are
excellent sources.
Living in SoCal, it rains infrequently and chains and cassettes last
thousands of miles.
Paul Kopit
<frkr...@mousepotato.com> wrote:
>Alternately, do it with the chain on the bike. Put the bike on a
>workstand, and heat chain in it's lower free span, using a propane torch
>on low flame.
>
>More detail: Warm the 8" of chain; use a chunk of the solid wax/oil
>mixture as a crayon, and crayon it onto the chain; warm the chain again
>until the wax/oil melts and flows into the chain pivots; backpedal 8"
>and repeat.
>
>When done, wipe excess off with paper towels. Before beginning, protect
>the floor with newspapers. Takes about 5 minutes, lasts many hundreds
>of miles.
Wouldn't it be easier to just use a removable link in the chain and
remove the chain before using the wax concoction? I'd think that
heating with a propane torch might change the temper of the metal of
the chain.
Douglas Landau
> jobst....@stanfordalumni.org writes:
>
> > What I found was that sloshing the chain in solvent externally
> > cleans the chain but on putting the "cleaned" chain in clean solvent
> > and sloshing it around while lying on its side, substantial fine
> > grit came out of the apparently clean chain.
> >
> > I also tried this by agitating the chain under water with dishwater
> > detergent and achieved the same result. My conclusion is that
> > unless the chain is thoroughly cleaned internally, cosmetically
> > cleaning with solvent does no good and probably is worse than not
> > cleaning.
>
> Interesting. Many of us use the two chain method of alternating
> chains, swapping a cleaned on for the dirty one to be cleaned, and so
> forth. Soaking and agitating the chain in solvent isn't enough,
> obviously, and a second cleaning in fresh solvent shows this to be the
> case. Is it even possible to clean out a chain adequately by
> agitating it in solvent? How does one clean the chain thoroughly
> internally without spending an inordinate amount of time?
I have always assumed that when people refer to cleaning a chain by
agitation in solvent, that they mean repeatedly, using fresh solvent
each time, until the solvent stops changing color. I would think it
would be pointless to stop short of this.
It doesn't take long. I used to shake it in a pie pan until I read here
about using a wide-mouth plastic bottle. This really lets you agitate it
a lot better. It consistently takes 4 iterations, and I do it a fifth
time just to make sure. Using about about a half litre of solvent each
time. But doing it 5 times only takes a few more minutes than doing
it once. I use paint thinner and don't bother letting it soak.
Whoever mentioned using the wide-mouth plastic bottle, thanks. You
also mentioned tying a string/floss to the chain to retrieve it. I
tried that but now I just let the funnel stop the chain when pouring
out the dirty solvent.
dkl
Matt O'Toole
> Wouldn't it be easier to just use a removable link in the chain and
> remove the chain before using the wax concoction? I'd think that
> heating with a propane torch might change the temper of the metal of
> the chain.
Not if it's only hot enough to melt the wax.
Matt O.
Matt O'Toole
> Bob Wheeler wrote:
>
>>
>> Put a pot of water on the kitchen stove. Put the chain in a can with
>> the paraffin and set it in the water and bring to a boil. Let it
>> cook for a while. Fish the chain out and hang it over a coat hanger.
>> I generally throw the can and paraffin away to avoid a mess.
>>
>
> Alternately, do it with the chain on the bike. Put the bike on a
> workstand, and heat chain in it's lower free span, using a propane
> torch on low flame.
>
> More detail: Warm the 8" of chain; use a chunk of the solid wax/oil
> mixture as a crayon, and crayon it onto the chain; warm the chain
> again until the wax/oil melts and flows into the chain pivots;
> backpedal 8" and repeat.
>
> When done, wipe excess off with paper towels. Before beginning,
> protect the floor with newspapers. Takes about 5 minutes, lasts many
> hundreds of miles.
How much oil do you put in your wax? I don't think plain wax lubricates enough.
I've used waxy lubes from a bottle, and the only ones I like are the ones with
more oil in them -- Pedros Extra Dry, Finish Line Dry, Boeshield, etc. I don't
think White Lightening (plain wax) lubricates worth a damn. My firends use it
and their chains seem to last as long as mine, but the noise from their
drivetrains drives me nuts. Also, wax seems to make a mess of the drivetrain,
becoming caked all over everything.
Matt O.
Charlie
I've used the following chainwax method for the past ten years.
Obtain a Fry Daddy from the local thrift store or the basement. Since
the Dr put me on a low fat diet / cholestrol diet it wasn't too much
of a hardship. You'll also need a thermometer capable of 400 degrees,
a couple of blocks of wax from the grocery and a pint of motor oil
(any brand). Plug in the Fry Daddy with the wax and motor oil and heat
to 250-300 degrees. Then VERY CAREFULLY lower your chain into the
brew. You'll want to use a method that prevents it from tangling when
removed. I usually allow the chains to remain there 10 - 15 minutes to
assure full penetration of the mix in to the links. This also boils
out any water after that ride in the rain. It really cracks and pops
till the water is gone.
Using an old spoke with a hook bend pull the chain out of the wax/oil
allowing the excess to drip back into the Fry Daddy. When it stops
dripping the chain is then wiped down with a rag to remove excess
wax/oil. After cooling for a few minutes the chain is replaced on the
bike. I have also installed it immediately wearing a pair of gloves
when the road was calling.
Previously I had used only wax and as noted by another poster also
concluded that rain would easily wash out the wax. With the motor oil
I no longer have a problem with rain.
Charlie Myer
Weisse Luft
Back when I couldn't afford wonder lubes, I would mix my own using
regular parifin wax with enough red lithium grease added to give it
some "plasticity" like modeling clay. I would then dissolve this in
hexane from the lab (we used gallons every week and I would recover it
from the Rotavap as it was quite reusable but due to purity, we sent it
to the recyler). This was a great lube because I didn't need to melt
it. It did require two applications on a dry chain but it worked for
at least 100 miles.
Now that the hexane supply is gone, I just buy original White Lightning
as my time is money.
--
Weisse Luft
SuperSlinky
> Naptha's a pretty hazardous material to be using it as a solvent.
> Vapors are harmful, and the flash point is 122F. There are safer
> alternatives. Wear gloves, use in well ventilated areas only, and
> keep the container closed.
> --
> terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
Well, any organic solvent or fuel is going to share some basic hazards
like flammability and exposure to fumes. Naptha should be among the
least vapor harmful, but among the most flammable, partly because of its
fast evaporation rate. This is a very nice property to have when it
comes to its use for chains. You just need to use common sense and keep
it away from sources of ignition.
Bob Wheeler
for $15, which is cheap enough to devote to this.
Paul Kopit wrote:
SuperSlinky
Agree that alcohol doesn't compare to naptha and I use naptha on just
about every part of my bike with no problem. I won't say that it could
never damage paint or decals, but it hasn't for me using it sparingly. I
found acetone to be utterly useless for dissolving chain gunk. Doesn't
put a dent in it. Acetone is also murder on plastics of most kinds in my
experience. Might be a real bad idea to get any on a carbon fiber part.
SuperSlinky
> Wow.
I assume you mean that sounds like a lot. It is probably more like 300
miles now that I think about it, but naptha really does make it easy. I
always take off the derailleur pulleys and clean and lube them too. If
it needs it, I will take a wire brush to the cassette to remove excess
gunk there.
neil0502
If my drivetrain hears what kind of care you take of your drivetrain, I'm
gonna' have a mutiny on my hands ;-)
Matt O'Toole
> Agree that alcohol doesn't compare to naptha and I use naptha on just
> about every part of my bike with no problem. I won't say that it could
> never damage paint or decals, but it hasn't for me using it
> sparingly. I found acetone to be utterly useless for dissolving chain
> gunk. Doesn't put a dent in it. Acetone is also murder on plastics of
> most kinds in my experience. Might be a real bad idea to get any on a
> carbon fiber part.
Watch the alcohol around rubber parts like seals, it can cause them to swell and
deform. Otherwise you're right, alcohol is one of the safest solvents you can
use, and a pretty effective one.
Matt O.
H. M. Leary
Frank Krygowski <frkr...@mousepotato.com> wrote:
> Bob Wheeler wrote:
>
> >
> > Put a pot of water on the kitchen stove. Put the chain in a can with the
> > paraffin and set it in the water and bring to a boil. Let it cook for a
> > while. Fish the chain out and hang it over a coat hanger. I generally
> > throw the can and paraffin away to avoid a mess.
> >
>
> Alternately, do it with the chain on the bike. Put the bike on a
> workstand, and heat chain in it's lower free span, using a propane torch
> on low flame.
>
> More detail: Warm the 8" of chain; use a chunk of the solid wax/oil
> mixture as a crayon, and crayon it onto the chain; warm the chain again
> until the wax/oil melts and flows into the chain pivots; backpedal 8"
> and repeat.
>
> When done, wipe excess off with paper towels. Before beginning, protect
> the floor with newspapers. Takes about 5 minutes, lasts many hundreds
> of miles.
WOW! is right, Frank.
I cannot believe a man of your inteligence would do this.
The Youngstown Fire Department must love it.
HAND
Ride Safe!
Frank Krygowski
>
> How much oil do you put in your wax? I don't think plain wax lubricates enough.
I agree, plain wax doesn't lubricate enough. I tried plain wax when I
first read about this method back in the 1970s. It started squeaking
soon after a rainy ride.
How much oil do I blend into the wax? I've been saying "about 5%," but
that's not measured. I simply melted some paraffin in a pan and poured
in a little oil and stirred. I blended this concoction only twice in my
life - a pan lasts a long, long time. And my memory tells me nothing
more than "it looked about right."
One time I used motor oil, another time I used SAE 90 gear lube. I
think it's the gear lube that's in my current supply, but I'm not even
sure about that. Both work well.
>Also, wax seems to make a mess of the drivetrain,
> becoming caked all over everything.
With the addition of the oil, the chain doesn't stay _perfectly_ clean,
but it stays way, way cleaner than any oil-based lube I've used. After I
do the torch lube job, I wipe off all the excess by backpedaling through
a rag or paper towels. I don't get any significant "caking."
If I want to improve cleanliness between lube jobs, I can wipe the chain
and big chainring down with paper towels in about two minutes, and it
won't leave chain tattoos on my legs or work clothes. I do this
whenever I feel an urge for unusual cleanliness. That's about once
every six months! ;-)
Frank Krygowski
Hmmm. You say that as if it were known to cause some problem. If
you've heard of a single fire ever caused this way, be sure to let me know!
But I'll admit, I'm a hell of a risk taker. Evidence: We actually heat
our house by using a gas flame. Same for our hot water. Not only that,
we have naked gas flames right there in our kitchen, under the very food
we eat!
And then in our living room... you guessed it: Candles!! And a
fireplace! And we don't even put the candles in the fireplace before we
light them!
Yep. We live on the edge, all right! ;-)
Pat Lamb
> Alternately, do it with the chain on the bike. Put the bike on a
> workstand, and heat chain in it's lower free span, using a propane torch
> on low flame.
>
> More detail: Warm the 8" of chain; use a chunk of the solid wax/oil
> mixture as a crayon, and crayon it onto the chain; warm the chain again
> until the wax/oil melts and flows into the chain pivots; backpedal 8"
> and repeat.
>
> When done, wipe excess off with paper towels. Before beginning, protect
> the floor with newspapers. Takes about 5 minutes, lasts many hundreds
> of miles.
Frank,
You've given this advice several times now. I wonder, though, how do
you deal with the plastic or rubber pulleys on the rear derailer? Do
you worry about them deforming or even melting?
Pat
Weisse Luft
Jockey wheels are made of a toughened Nylon that is pretty heat
resistant.
Even so, this method isn't the best because you get wax on the cogs
where it does no good. Yes, lube on the cogs is useless because the
sliding surfaces are within the chain. The rollers do not slide on the
cogs.
Since I remove my chain for cleaning, I also lubricate the chain off
the bike. No problems with the dreaded White Lightning buildup on the
jockey wheels. I heard some people say WL cannot be removed off jockey
wheels as it becomes permanent.
--
Weisse Luft
TBGibb
<tim...@bitstream.net> writes:
>jobst....@stanfordalumni.org writes:
>
>> Recently an experiment was made to determine whether cleaning a
>> chain before re-oiling improves durability and the results posted
>> here in this newsgroup. The chain was marked and split in two for
>> cleaning only one half, before reassembling and lubricating. Each
>> time the elongation (pitch wear) was measured. The cleaned portion
>> showed more wear than the one that was only re-oiled. I have no way
>> of verifying the measurements but there is no reason to doubt the
>> results. However, I reviewed the process.
>
>I remember that post, and I remember being surprised by the results
>since they were counter to the canonical recommendations.
It was my project and I was surprised too.
>> What I found was that sloshing the chain in solvent externally
>> cleans the chain but on putting the "cleaned" chain in clean solvent
>> and sloshing it around while lying on its side, substantial fine
>> grit came out of the apparently clean chain.
When I cleaned the solvent sloshed chain I did just what you described here. I
kept using fresh solvent until there was no visible grit in the last wash.
Tom Gibb <TBG...@aol.com>
Douglas Landau
> >>
> >>More detail: Warm the 8" of chain; use a chunk of the solid wax/oil
> >>mixture as a crayon, and crayon it onto the chain; warm the chain again
> >>until the wax/oil melts and flows into the chain pivots; backpedal 8"
> >>and repeat.
> >>
> >
> > I cannot believe a man of your inteligence would do this.
> >
> > The Youngstown Fire Department must love it.
>
> Hmmm. You say that as if it were known to cause some problem. If
> you've heard of a single fire ever caused this way, be sure to let me know!
>
> But I'll admit, I'm a hell of a risk taker. Evidence: We actually heat
> our house by using a gas flame. Same for our hot water. Not only that,
> we have naked gas flames right there in our kitchen, under the very food
> we eat!
>
I'm picturing the scene from It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World where Sid
Ceasar leaves a propane torch pointed carelessly, and starts a fire
in the basement...
Matt O'Toole
> Jockey wheels are made of a toughened Nylon that is pretty heat
> resistant.
Actually, I think the lastest upscale Shimano ones are some kind of ceramic.
Matt O.
SuperSlinky
Oops. Actually I meant a plastic brush. A wire brush would be needlessly
harsh.
g.daniels
i hear luft cycles on a billyard table!
g.daniels
but the inspection care rises with the oil's viscosity, different
oil, lower temp.
even a clean rinse bath post wash may produce a chain with grit
inbetween the side plates and i suppose inside the rollers then.
that's a good check: do the side plates, try several at different
lengths, CRUCNHCRUNCH when wiggled?
that's where the grit hides after a bath.
soak soak then swirl some more. a good soak of 20 minutes should
dissolve the oil holding the grits in there.
Frank Krygowski
Not a bit. I heat only the bottom strand of chain. After heating it
for the wax to flow into the pivots, I backpedal. The warm chain goes
around the front chainrings. By the time it gets back to the freewheel,
it's barely above room temperature.
In fact, sometimes in the past I tried to tell where I started (to see
if I'd lubed all the links) by feeling for warm links, and decided I
couldn't reliably tell. (I now sometimes mark the "first" link with chalk.)
Frank Krygowski
>
> Even so, this method isn't the best because you get wax on the cogs
> where it does no good.
Not so. Try it and see. The cogs stay pretty clean.
After many, many miles, you may build up a small amount of wax on the
cogs, but it's certainly not troublesome.
g.daniels
stream
BUT!
the stuff emulsifies oil, does it not?
that leaves emulsified oil particles inside the inbetween areas
holding, I guess grit particles.
If one uses thinner, the thinner can be rebottled and then the grit
will settle to the bottom over a week's time and will not pour back
out ifn ur careful.
the energy cost associated with recycled thinner may be less than say
citric acid that comes on stage thru a lengthy boiling process? or
with detergents?
ON DETERGENT'S: i ahve read that soap and water and detergent is a
minus when applioed to lubricated bearing surfaces. that clean with a
like substance cleaner-oil based-is a better deal. think about the
"this crap bonds to the chain rollers so you gotta buy it NOW NOW at
$25/oz" statements that roll past.
Gee, anyway, how clean does the chain need to be. get the grit outa
the insides! but towelish clean? 100 yards down the drive and you pick
up more tyhan that..
see "DIY chainguard $2" in bike.tech archives if your that compulsive.
g.daniels
the oil has several components and one or two does not rinse out with
acetone but solidifies into film(s) holding grit particles.
Steven Scharf
> Any thoughts on the best choice of chain lubricant for a road bike ridden
> generally in dry conditions??
1. Foaming chain-lube. Available at motorcycle parts stores
2. Chain saw oil.
These two choices have a unique and amazing advantage--they are
designed to lubricate chains. They also happen to be very inexpensive.
The foaming chain lube is especially convenient as it is easy to apply
without removing and soaking the chain.
30W oil (not 10W30) is also okay, but less tenacious than chain
lubricants.
Avoid any kind of wax; it keeps the chain clean, but it lubricates
very, very poorly.
The Big Pedalnut
"Jay Richolson" <inns...@sonic.net> wrote:
> Any thoughts on the best choice of chain lubricant for a road bike ridden
> generally in dry conditions??
Hi Jay,
I've gone through 14 of the 76 posts on this thread, and so far, haven't
seen anyone advocating Phil Woods Oil.
I swear by this stuff, as it's kept my road bike going since 1987.
Then, I'm very careful to keep the chaining running as straight as
possible over the cogs/chainrings. I don't tolerate chain deflection,
and neither is my dear old bike likely to either, nowadays.
My understanding is that Phil Woods Oil is much like the chain saw oil
combination mentioned here.
The nice thing about it, is that you don't need to experiment in mixing
two components together. I've also found Phil Woods Oil to be about the
cheapest in LBSs.
One trick, is to keep your drivetrain as clean as possible, regardless
of lube used. This is why I prefer silver coloured chains, as the
buildup of gunk is easily noticed, and I know to wipe it down. with an
old rag or paper towel. Once done, I put one small drop of oil on each
bushing of the chain, on the inside of the chain where it runs from the
pulley wheels back to the chain-rings. Once oiling the whole chain is
completed, I work it into the chain by running my fingers along the
chain while spinning the cranks backwards. Once I've worked the oil
into the chains' bushings, I wipe off the excess with a rag/paper towel.
When finished, you should find a thin film of oil on your finger tips
after running them over the oiled surface of the chain.
This is how I was taught to do it in bike shops as an employee, and it's
worked for me for years, keeping my baby running smoothly.
Hope this helps
The Big Pedalnut
Terry Morse <tmo...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> SuperSlinky wrote:
>
> > I clean my chains about once every 150 miles or so by soaking them in
> > naptha, a somewhat hard to find solvent.
>
> Naptha's a pretty hazardous material to be using it as a solvent.
> Vapors are harmful, and the flash point is 122F. There are safer
> alternatives. Wear gloves, use in well ventilated areas only, and
> keep the container closed.
> --
> terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
Another option, perhaps less expensive, is paint thinner. Use golves
though, because it can really get into your skin. And simple laytex
gloves just disolve in it, so you'll need good think rubber ones.
Once I've gone over the parts with an old toothbrush, to get the gunk
and grit out, I through them into a bucket of warm water with a strong
dose of dish soap. This way, I get the paint thinner off. Swish this
'concoction' around thoroughly, and then rise with warm water.
I find when I can put the parts up to my nose, and no longer smell any
paint thinner, I know I've got them clean.
A simple process, but can be pain-stakingly boring - but it sure gets
them parts clean!
Matt O'Toole
I actually use Phil Oil most of the time. But honestly, a thinner, less sticky
oil would be better. No matter how sparing I am with the Phil, gooey strings
come off the cogs and derailer pulleys and fall all over everything, including
my rim. Even with lots of wiping, this doesn't go away until I ride for a
couple of hours.
Phil Oil is indispensible for some other bike things, like Judy forks and
Shimano freehubs, but for chains it's a little goopy. Thinner oil, even motor
oil, would be better for chains. But I happen to have the Phil handy, in a
convenient drip bottle, so that's what I use.
IOW, what I really think is: it doesn't really matter that much.
I've found it good practice to wipe the chain both before and after riding.
After goes without saying -- to remove any grit that's collected during the
ride. But wiping before removes oil that's seeped out of the chain since the
last ride, and helps keep new dirt from sticking. A couple of revolutions
through an old terry washcloth does the trick.
Matt O.
Michel Bernier
does not attract dirt. I have tried Phil Woods Oil and A Teflon Lube
Product prior to using White Lighting Product. It is a little pricey but it
gets the job done. For the first use of White Lighting ensure that your
chain is compleetly dergreased and dry. Apply the White Lighting and let
sit for a couple of hours and remove the excess. I hope this helps you out.
Mike.
"Matt O'Toole" <ma...@deltanet.com> wrote in message
news:2vdkrhF...@uni-berlin.de...