Can citizens detain for ICE illegal aliens (citizens arrest)?
walt tonne
and town across America.
Would be cost effective.
Walter
http://www.illegalaliens.us/ Illegal Aliens USA
betweentheeyes
news:1bf87a8f-c112-40a4...@v18g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
Knock yourself out (suggest obtaining legal counsel prior to trying):
United States
Each state, with the exception of North Carolina, permits citizen arrests if
the commission of a felony is witnessed by the arresting citizen, or when a
citizen is asked to assist in the apprehension of a suspect by police. The
application of state laws varies widely with respect to misdemeanors,
breaches of the peace, and felonies not witnessed by the arresting party.
American citizens do not carry the authority or enjoy the legal protections
held by police officers, and are held to the principle of strict liability
before the courts of civil- and criminal law including but not limited to
any infringement of another's rights.[31]
Though North Carolina General Statutes have no provision for citizens'
arrests, detention by private persons is permitted and applies to both
civilians and police officers outside their jurisdiction.[32] Detention is
permitted where probable cause exists that one has committed a felony,
breach of peace, physical injury to another person, or theft or destruction
of property.[33] Detention is different from an arrest in that in a
detention the detainee may not be transported without consent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen's_arrest
*us*
>
>From The Associated Press, 6/3/10:
>http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/jun/03/ap-impact-us-mexico-border-isnt-so-dangerous/
>
>AP Impact: US-Mexico border isn't so dangerous
>
>By MARTHA MENDOZA, Associated Press Writer
>
>MEXICO CITY —
>
>It's one of the safest parts of America, and it's getting safer.
>
>It's the U.S.-Mexico border, and even as politicians say more federal
>troops are needed to fight rising violence, government data obtained
>by The Associated Press show it actually isn't so dangerous after all.
>The top four big cities in America with the lowest rates of violent
>crime are all in border states: San Diego, Phoenix , El Paso and
>Austin, according to a new FBI report.
>
>And an in-house Customs and Border Protection report shows that Border
>Patrol agents face far less danger than street cops in most U.S.
>cities.
>
>The Customs and Border Protection study, obtained with a Freedom of
>Information Act request, shows 3 percent of Border Patrol agents and
>officers were assaulted last year, mostly when assailants threw rocks
>at them.
>
>That compares with 11 percent of police officers and sheriff's
>deputies assaulted during the same period, usually with guns or
>knives.
>
>In addition, violent attacks against agents declined in 2009 along
>most of the border for the first time in seven years.
>
>So far this year assaults are slightly up, but data is incomplete.
>
>"The border is safer now than it's ever been," said U.S. Customs and
>Border Protection spokesman Lloyd Easterling.
>
>He said one factor is that with fewer jobs available amid the U.S.
>recession, illegal immigration has dropped.
>
>And responding to security concerns after 9-11, the Border Patrol has
>doubled the number of agents in the region since 2004.
>
>Nonetheless, border lawmakers and governors say their region is under
>siege and needs more troops.
>
>"Violence in the vicinity of the U.S.-Mexico border continues to
>increase at an alarming rate. We believe that this violence represents
>a serious threat to the national security of the United States as well
>as a serious threat to U.S. citizens that live along the 1,969-mile
>long border," a dozen bipartisan members of Congress from border
>states wrote President Obama.
>
>In Arizona , a stringent new immigration law takes effect next month,
>requiring police to question suspects' immigration status if officers
>believe they're in the country illegally.
>
>Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer said in a televised interview last weekend:
>
>"We are out here on the battlefield getting the impact of all this
>illegal immigration, and all the crime that comes with it."
>
>In response to the concerns from the border states, Obama pledged to
>send 1,200 National Guard troops to help and spend an extra $500
>million on border security.
>
>His one-time rival for the presidency, Arizona Sen. John McCain, said
>he should send at least 6,000 troops, which are needed because he said
>Arizona leads the nation in marijuana seizures, suffered 368
>kidnappings in 2008 and has the highest property crime rates in the
>U.S.
>
>But FBI crime reports for 2009 says violent crime in Arizona declined.
>And violent crimes in southwest border counties are among the lowest
>in the nation per capita - they've dropped by more than 30 percent in
>the last two decades.
>
>Of America's 25 largest cities, San Diego - with one out of four
>residents an immigrant - has the lowest number of violent crimes per
>capita.
>
>Opponents of increased border security are frustrated by descriptions
>of a wave of violence when the statistics show the region to be
>relatively safe.
>
>"Politicians are hyping up this incredible fear across the country
>about the border, but these numbers show these are lies being
>perpetrated on the American public," said immigrant advocate Isabel
>Garcia at Tucson-based Derechos Humanos.
>
>"The warnings about violence are just an excuse to crack down on
>migrants who want to work and be with their families."
>
>Even residents of the border region who want more security are
>surprised by the talk of violence.
>
>"I have to say, a lot of this is way overblown," said Gary Brasher of
>Tuboc, Arizona, who is president of the Coalition for a Safe and
>Secure Border.
>
>_________________________________________________________
>
>Harry
Thanks for posting that.
Patriot Games
<tonnew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Citizen participation not only along the border but in every village
>and town across America.
>Would be cost effective.
Short answer: Yes.
Longer answer: Yes, but very risky. If you throw a citizen's arrest
on somebody you THINK is a criminal beaner YOU BETTER BE CORRECT or
you'll get sued and lose your shirt...
Also, to be completely safe you better detain them and call your local
law enforcement and NOT call ICE or FBI, etc.
Also, to be completely safe you better have some other reason for
detaining them besides you THINK they are criminal beaners...
----------------------------
The DemocRATs Hall of Shame!
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Movies updated 5/25/10!
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Learn the TRUTH about:
Bob LeChevalier,
Freestyle,
Gandalf Grey,
Iarnrod,
Kevin Cunningham,
Lickin Ass' and Fakin' Names,
Major Debacle,
Michael Coburn,
Mitchel Holman,
Peter Principle,
Ramon Herrera,
Rightardia,
Rod Speed,
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richard
Yes.
Arizona law gives that authority to it's citizens.
Ranchers who live near the border routinely patrol their property and when
they find illegal aliens, hold them until the BP or police arrive.
--
I learned my lesson well. You can't please everyone, so you got to please
yourself.
- Ricky Nelson from "Garden Party"
Ramon F Herrera
It has been tried. They call themselves The Minutemen. Their actions
have produced killings, such as that of a rancher, and this girl:
http://www.economicrefugee.net/?tag=neo-nazi
It is not a coincidence that when JFK was assassinated, the first
suspects were also called "Minutemen". Visit the Six Floor Museum in
Dallas.
-Ramon
Ramon F Herrera
> dangerous. Better be 101% SURE, and be able to
> prove it or somebody will turn the tables on you.
While we are at it, let's not forget to make citizen arrests on:
- Drug consumers
- Speeding drivers
- Tax evaders
- other miscellaneous
Let me know when you'all do that, so I can pack my bags and go back to
Venezuela.
-Ramon
Ramon F Herrera
> Would be cost effective.
As long as we are concerned about efficiencies, consider that we need
to dissolve the employer-employee link. Let's say that a company hires
50 illegals. We can:
- Detain one illegal immigrant at a time (50 citizen arrests)
or
- Detain the business owner//manager who hires illegal immigrants (1
citizens arrest)
The latter seems much more cost effective.
-Ramon
Matt
Simple answer: Yes. Arizona allows for citizen arrests.
More complicated answer: Maybe. Depends on whether you are detaining
for a felony (legal) or a misdemeanor (not ok). Worse, you may get in
trouble if you are wrong, and are liable for a lawsuit.
Basic response: It is a reasonable response IF you are sure.
matt
The PHANTOM
You need help packing your bags little fat tanclan racist?
*us*
>Citizen participation ...
What's the matter, did your maid ask for a raise?
richard
Understand what is meant by "felony".
So no, you can't make a citizen's arrest on a speeding driver.
The actual crime has to be witnessed by the citizen. Tax evasion is
generally not witnessed by another citizen.
Wayne
"Ramon F Herrera" <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in message
news:93e654bd-242e-4e7a...@c13g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
-
Do the googling yourself, and you will easily find that citizen's arrests
have been done on speeders. NOW...follow through with your promise to pack
and leave. Assuming that was an idle promise, the least you can do is to
try to assimilate.
Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
<tonnew...@gmail.com> wrote:
How about citizen's arrests for:
-- George Bush for lying to start a war?
-- John Loo for ordering torture in violation of US and international
law?
-- Officials at AGI, GM, Lehman, Goldman-Sachs, and the rest of them
for destroying the US eoconomy?
-- Gleen Beck for perjury?
-- Rush Limbo for drug possession and trafficking?
Fred B. Brown
"Ramon F Herrera" <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in message
news:93e654bd-242e-4e7a...@c13g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
> walt tonne <tonnewalt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Citizen participation not only along the border but in every village
> >and town across America.
> >Would be cost effective.
>
> >Walter
>
> >http://www.illegalaliens.us/ Illegal Aliens USA
>
> It's within the law ... but it's also legally
> dangerous. Better be 101% SURE, and be able to
> prove it or somebody will turn the tables on you.
>While we are at it, let's not forget to make citizen arrests on:
- Drug consumers
- Speeding drivers
- Tax evaders
- other miscellaneous
Getting rid of the illegal aliens will take care of the above.
Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
>Let me know when you'all do that, so I can pack my bags and go back to
Venezuela.
Hurry up, Hugo is waiting with open arms.
-Ramon
RD Sandman
news:1i479ikf88pd.bsnmeyrusrxx$.d...@40tude.net:
> On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:27:47 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne wrote:
>
>> Citizen participation not only along the border but in every village
>> and town across America.
>> Would be cost effective.
>>
>> Walter
>>
>> http://www.illegalaliens.us/ Illegal Aliens USA
>
> Yes.
>
> Arizona law gives that authority to it's citizens.
> Ranchers who live near the border routinely patrol their property and
> when they find illegal aliens, hold them until the BP or police
> arrive.
>
>
And some of them face charges when that holding is at gunpoint.
--
Sleep well tonight,
RD (The Sandman)
Life is like a bowl of habeneros...what you do today
may well burn your ass tomorrow.
Ramon F Herrera
> On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 07:26:30 -0700 (PDT), Ramon F Herrera wrote:
> > On Jun 1, 8:07 am, Mr.B1ack <b...@barrk.net> wrote:
> >> walt tonne <tonnewalt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>Citizen participation not only along the border but in every village
> >>>and town across America.
> >>>Would be cost effective.
>
> >>>Walter
>
>
> >> It's within the law ... but it's also legally
> >> dangerous. Better be 101% SURE, and be able to
> >> prove it or somebody will turn the tables on you.
>
> > While we are at it, let's not forget to make citizen arrests on:
>
> > - Drug consumers
> > - Speeding drivers
> > - Tax evaders
> > - other miscellaneous
>
> > Let me know when you'all do that, so I can pack my bags and go back to
> > Venezuela.
>
> > -Ramon
>
> Understand what is meant by "felony".
>
> So no, you can't make a citizen's arrest on a speeding
> driver. The actual crime has to be witnessed by the citizen.
> Tax evasion is generally not witnessed by another citizen.
Generally, being in the country WOP (WithOut Paper) is a misdemeanor.
Attempts to make it a crime (Sensebrenner, 2007) led to the largest
demonstrations in the history of the US. About 1 million people
marched in each LA, Dallas and other cities. The law had to be
dropped.
So, today the score looks like this:
Anti-Immigrants: 1 (Kennedy/McCain defeated)
Pro-Immigrants: 1 (Sensebrenner defeated)
-Ramon
Ramon F Herrera
> On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:27:47 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne wrote:
> > Citizen participation not only along the border but in every village
> > and town across America.
> > Would be cost effective.
>
> > Walter
>
> >http://www.illegalaliens.us/ Illegal Aliens USA
>
> Yes.
>
> Arizona law gives that authority to it's citizens.
> Ranchers who live near the border routinely patrol their
> property and when they find illegal aliens, hold them until
> the BP or police arrive.
AG Gates said in Faux News that ICE will not accept illegal immigrants
given to them by the State of Arizona. It is considered a rogue state,
at least in that respect.
Hey, Arizona: Who is the illegal now? :-)
-Ramon
Keith
[ misc.legal ]:
> Citizen participation not only along the border but in every village
> and town across America.
> Would be cost effective.
A person can not make a citizen arrest for a violation of Federal Law. If
someone trespasses on your private property then you tell them to leave
and they refuse then in *some* States you could execute a citizens arrest.
However, if you do arrest someone they may sue you in State or Federal
court for a civil rights violation or other torts. The cost of defending
yourself in such a lawsuit starts at about $25,000 and if you lose the
winning party could put a lien on your private property to collect.
--
Best Regards, Keith
http://home.comcast.net/~kilowattradio/
America's Debt. The greatest Ponzi scheme ever Devised.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
wir sind wahr
David W
Eric Coomes
> richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote in
> news:1i479ikf88pd.bsnmeyrusrxx$.d...@40tude.net:
>
>
>>On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:27:47 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Citizen participation not only along the border but in every village
>>>and town across America.
>>>Would be cost effective.
>>>
>>>Walter
>>>
>>>http://www.illegalaliens.us/ Illegal Aliens USA
>>
>>Yes.
>>
>>Arizona law gives that authority to it's citizens.
>>Ranchers who live near the border routinely patrol their property and
>>when they find illegal aliens, hold them until the BP or police
>>arrive.
> And some of them face charges when that holding is at gunpoint.
Can you give me a few examples as to who was charged VS convicted with
that "crime", when the holders were indeed lawful gun/property owners,
keeping criminals at bay on their own land?
You said some are, So I really am interested in those cases that you
heard about, and what the outcome was.
Is "at knife point" any different?
I need the same info.
AT "what point?" can ANY US citizen 'detain' a criminal caught in the
act, and hold them until the paddy wagon arrives, to cart them away?
How about if I just sit on their head as they lay face down in the
dirt, and I fart a lot after a great Chimmichanga dinner with extra
black beans, goat meat chilli, with a pickled prune-n-cabbage salsa with
peanut butter, as I wait a few days for the police to EVENTUALY show up?
Me: "Damn! What's that # for 911?
(Fart!)
Crimminal invader: "EEEEK!"
Me: It's starts with a 9, right?
(Fart!)
Crimminal invader: "My God! You ate something dead, and it's soul is
trying to come out yer ass!"
<Criminal is now getting the warm ups of my gastromical delights, and
begging me to kill him!)
Me: "Yessir! My anal vapors are a spendid mix of nasty and "YER FUCKED!"
RM v2.0
-Ramon
ICE for publicly declaring they will not do the job they were hired to do.
They should all be fired upon the first refusal.
Not Sure
Hey, this thread scared the shit and piss out of you, huh? Continue
panicking :)
RD Sandman
$607e...@cv.net:
> RD Sandman wrote:
>
>> richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote in
>> news:1i479ikf88pd.bsnmeyrusrxx$.d...@40tude.net:
>>
>>
>>>On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:27:47 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Citizen participation not only along the border but in every village
>>>>and town across America.
>>>>Would be cost effective.
>>>>
>>>>Walter
>>>>
>>>>http://www.illegalaliens.us/ Illegal Aliens USA
>>>
>>>Yes.
>>>
>>>Arizona law gives that authority to it's citizens.
>>>Ranchers who live near the border routinely patrol their property and
>>>when they find illegal aliens, hold them until the BP or police
>>>arrive.
>
>> And some of them face charges when that holding is at gunpoint.
>
> Can you give me a few examples as to who was charged VS convicted with
> that "crime", when the holders were indeed lawful gun/property owners,
> keeping criminals at bay on their own land?
>
> You said some are, So I really am interested in those cases that you
> heard about, and what the outcome was.
Look up Roger Barnett.
RD Sandman
ad51-a0b...@40g2000vbr.googlegroups.com:
John Morton, head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) has stated
that his group MAY not accept SOME of the illegal immigrants given to
them by the State of Arizona. Now, if the real Attorney General Holder
(not Secretary of Defense Gates) really wants someone to go after for
failure to follow the law, he can try ICE for not doing its job.
> Hey, Arizona: Who is the illegal now? :-)
You don't even know who is who in that arena, Ramon.
RD Sandman
news:eTRNn.708817$FK3.4...@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com:
>
> "Ramon F Herrera" <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in message
> news:2553634b-dacc-42e2...@40g2000vbr.googlegroups.com..
> . On Jun 3, 8:46 am, richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:27:47 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne wrote:
>> > Citizen participation not only along the border but in every
>> > village and town across America.
>> > Would be cost effective.
>>
>> > Walter
>>
>> >http://www.illegalaliens.us/ Illegal Aliens USA
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>
>> Arizona law gives that authority to it's citizens.
>
> > Ranchers who live near the border routinely patrol their
> > property and when they find illegal aliens, hold them until
> > the BP or police arrive.
>
> AG Gates said in Faux News that ICE will not accept illegal immigrants
> given to them by the State of Arizona. It is considered a rogue state,
> at least in that respect.
>
> Hey, Arizona: Who is the illegal now? :-)
>
> -Ramon
>
> ICE for publicly declaring they will not do the job they were hired to
> do. They should all be fired upon the first refusal.
In the first place, Gates is NOT Attorney General, that is Eric Holder.
Gates is Secretary of Defense and John Morton is the head of ICE.
Buster Norris
You should be arrested for lying, stolen valor and impersonating a
woman-
Courtesy of Buster Norris:
( http://tinyurl.com/34gkx2j )
BUSTED -
http://tinyurl.com/39lk68t
Message-ID: <part1of1.1.Y...@ue.ph>
Subject: Re: Rightwing hero, Chuck Norris, never heard a shot fired in
his direction
From: Buster Norris <bus...@buster.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 15:06:29 GMT
Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names <PopUlist...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Message-ID: <r5b4t5pbg76llsle2lhgh1lbkcd22ut...@4ax.com>
>Chuck Norris for example.
Disclosure: I am not related to Chuck Norris........
>Oh, I know -- Norris served two years in the Air Force -- two years at
>Osan AB, Korea. Where the only shots he knew anything about were the
>shots of watered-dwon Johnny Walker at Miss Kim's Long Branch Saloon
Freakshow! YER BUSTED!!!!
1. There is NO bar called that at that base in South Korea!
2. Go ahead and Google "Miss Kim's Long Branch Saloon" and see what
you get:
3. A couple of hits about the old Gunsmoke TV show.
4. And THIS: http://www.angelfire.com/ga/beverlyann1/
5. GO THERE IF YOU DARE!!!
6. Its Freakshow Kickin and she is a he who's a she, or a fucking it!
I kid
you not!
7. Here's what "it" says - "Hi, my name is Beverly Ann and in case you
haven't
figured it out yet, I am Transgendered. I'm not going to try to
explain what
that means; other more qualified people can do that. All I'm going to
try and
do here is give a little information about the gender community and of
course,
post the obligatory bio and pictures. Who said we don't like to show
off. :-) "
8. I dare you to go look at the pics!
9. So Freakshow makes up some ignorant anti-patriot, anti-American
story about
a patriotic American hero Chuck Norris. Everybody already seen
Patriot Games
stomp Freakshow for lying on Chuck Norris before. So Freakshow makes
up some
name of some bar pretending He-She-It been there. Nope, Freakshow
never was in
the military, been documented, but He-She-It made up a name, coulda
been ANY
name, coulda been ANYTHING!
10. What the fuck are the odds Freakshow would make up a name out of
thin air
that does exist? Zero. What the fuck are the odds Freakshow would
make up a
name that CAN ONLY BE A FREAK SITE? Zero.
11. Freakshow Kickin used a real name from memory, HER OWN SITE!
Freakshow! YER FUCKING BUSTED!!!!
>But, what the hell, the rightwingers just love him.
Freakshow! YER FUCKING BUSTED!!!!
==================================
Post more pics on your website:
Your comment - "I love this picture"
http://www.angelfire.com/ga/beverlyann1/images/Bevburgandyvelvet.JPG
Posted from:
The DemocRATs Hall of Shame!
http://www.democrathallofshame.com/
Gray Ghost
news:Xns9D8C95591...@216.196.97.130:
> Eric Coomes <let...@bass.gov> wrote in news:4c07e0ee$0$31270
> $607e...@cv.net:
>
>> RD Sandman wrote:
>>
>>> richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote in
>>> news:1i479ikf88pd.bsnmeyrusrxx$.d...@40tude.net:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:27:47 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Citizen participation not only along the border but in every village
>>>>>and town across America.
>>>>>Would be cost effective.
>>>>>
>>>>>Walter
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.illegalaliens.us/ Illegal Aliens USA
>>>>
>>>>Yes.
>>>>
>>>>Arizona law gives that authority to it's citizens.
>>>>Ranchers who live near the border routinely patrol their property and
>>>>when they find illegal aliens, hold them until the BP or police
>>>>arrive.
>>
>>> And some of them face charges when that holding is at gunpoint.
>>
>> Can you give me a few examples as to who was charged VS convicted with
>> that "crime", when the holders were indeed lawful gun/property owners,
>> keeping criminals at bay on their own land?
>>
>> You said some are, So I really am interested in those cases that you
>> heard about, and what the outcome was.
>
> Look up Roger Barnett.
>
>
>
A miscarriage of justice if ever I saw one. Since when do criminals get to sue
the peole that catch them. Oh wait Barnett had money.
--
"Laws are made for men of ordinary understanding and should, therefore, be
construed by the ordinary rules of common sense. Their meaning is not to be
sought for in metaphysical subtleties which may make anything mean everything
or nothing at pleasure."
�Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 1823
Conan the Barabarian
a0b113...@40g2000vbr.googlegroups.com:
You are wetback.
--
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation
of their women.
Gray Ghost
What do you want to bet Ramon got the lowest possible grade on his citizenship
test?
Conan the Barabarian
3330b3...@c13g2000vbr.googlegroups.com:
> On Jun 1, 8:07�am, Mr.B1ack <b...@barrk.net> wrote:
>> walt tonne <tonnewalt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >Citizen participation not only along the border but in every village
>> >and town across America.
>> >Would be cost effective.
>>
>> >Walter
>>
>> >http://www.illegalaliens.us/�Illegal Aliens USA
>>
>> � �It's within the law ... but it's also legally
>> � �dangerous. Better be 101% SURE, and be able to
>> � �prove it or somebody will turn the tables on you.
>
>
> While we are at it, let's not forget to make citizen arrests on:
>
> - Drug consumers
> - Speeding drivers
> - Tax evaders
> - other miscellaneous
>
> Let me know when you'all do that, so I can pack my bags and go back to
> Venezuela.
>
> -Ramon
>
>
let's get rid of the wetbacks and the rest of the crtime will take care of
itself.
Gray Ghost
a31d0b...@d12g2000vbr.googlegroups.com:
> On Jun 3, 7:27�am, walt tonne <tonnewalt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Citizen participation not only along the border but in every village
>> and town across America.
>> Would be cost effective.
>>
>> Walter
>>
>> http://www.illegalaliens.us/�Illegal Aliens USA
>
> It has been tried. They call themselves The Minutemen. Their actions
> have produced killings, such as that of a rancher, and this girl:
>
> http://www.economicrefugee.net/?tag=neo-nazi
>
> It is not a coincidence that when JFK was assassinated, the first
> suspects were also called "Minutemen". Visit the Six Floor Museum in
> Dallas.
>
> -Ramon
>
>
Yeah I beleive unquestioningly a website called Economic Refugee. Uncle hugo
is waiting for you.
Harry Callahan
news:hu8mb...@news1.newsguy.com:
> On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:27:47 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne
><tonnew...@gmail.com> wrote in [ misc.legal ]:
>
>> Citizen participation not only along the border but in every village
>> and town across America.
>> Would be cost effective.
>
>
> A person can not make a citizen arrest for a violation of Federal Law. If
> someone trespasses on your private property then you tell them to leave
> and they refuse then in *some* States you could execute a citizens arrest.
> However, if you do arrest someone they may sue you in State or Federal
> court for a civil rights violation or other torts. The cost of defending
> yourself in such a lawsuit starts at about $25,000 and if you lose the
> winning party could put a lien on your private property to collect.
>
Seems like a good enough reason for a gunshot and a throwdown piece.
--
"I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to
tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But
being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and
would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I
feel lucky? Well, do ya punk?"
RD Sandman
news:Xns9D8CEF7C432E6We...@216.196.97.142:
And had to pay some out on 6 counts.
richard
> Eric Coomes <let...@bass.gov> wrote in news:4c07e0ee$0$31270
> $607e...@cv.net:
>
>> RD Sandman wrote:
>>
>>> richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote in
>>> news:1i479ikf88pd.bsnmeyrusrxx$.d...@40tude.net:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:27:47 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Citizen participation not only along the border but in every village
>>>>>and town across America.
>>>>>Would be cost effective.
>>>>>
>>>>>Walter
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.illegalaliens.us/ Illegal Aliens USA
>>>>
>>>>Yes.
>>>>
>>>>Arizona law gives that authority to it's citizens.
>>>>Ranchers who live near the border routinely patrol their property and
>>>>when they find illegal aliens, hold them until the BP or police
>>>>arrive.
>>
>>> And some of them face charges when that holding is at gunpoint.
>>
>> Can you give me a few examples as to who was charged VS convicted with
>> that "crime", when the holders were indeed lawful gun/property owners,
>> keeping criminals at bay on their own land?
>>
>> You said some are, So I really am interested in those cases that you
>> heard about, and what the outcome was.
>
> Look up Roger Barnett.
Barnett was sued by the illegals he captured because Barnett denied them
their constitutional rights. Barnett was never charged with a crime.
A bleeding heart liberal jury sided with the illegals.
--
I learned my lesson well. You can't please everyone, so you got to please
yourself.
- Ricky Nelson from "Garden Party"
richard
Ok fine. Then since the Arizona state border also is on the same Mexcian
border, you guys don't mind if we take them to the border and while you're
watching, release them do you? Because if you fail to arrest them now, we
can arrest you for failure to do your job.
They want a war? They've got one.
Guess who's gonna win? It ain't gonna be ICE.
Ramon F Herrera
I obviously meant "AG Holder".
-RFH
Ramon F Herrera
> ICE for publicly declaring they will not do the job
> they were hired to do.
> They should all be fired upon the first refusal.
Read again. The Law of The Land, The Boss of ICE, who speaks for the
White House is the one who made the statement (BTW: I just bent the
truth a little, he really said "ICE MIGHT refuse to accept the illegal
immigrants handed to them").
For all we know, ICE authorities learned about the potential refusal
the same way I did: by reading the (disgusting) Faux site.
ICE has not publicly declaring anything. The challenge comes from The
House That Used To Be White.
Just like anything Alberto Gonzales said, came from the White House.
The AG is the White House's lawyer.
-Ramon
Ramon F Herrera
wrote:> > "RM v2.0" <B...@spamsux.com> wrote in
> >news:eTRNn.708817$FK3.4...@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com:
>
> >> "Ramon F Herrera" <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in message
> >>news:2553634b-dacc-42e2...@40g2000vbr.googlegroups.com..
> >> . On Jun 3, 8:46 am, richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:27:47 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne wrote:
> >>> > Citizen participation not only along the border but in every
> >>> > village and town across America.
> >>> > Would be cost effective.
>
> >>> > Walter
>
>
> >>> Yes.
>
> >>> Arizona law gives that authority to it's citizens.
>
> >> > Ranchers who live near the border routinely patrol their
> >> > property and when they find illegal aliens, hold them until the BP or
> >> > police arrive.
>
> >> AG Gates said in Faux News that ICE will not accept illegal immigrants
> >> given to them by the State of Arizona. It is considered a rogue state,
> >> at least in that respect.
>
> >> Hey, Arizona: Who is the illegal now? :-)
>
> >> -Ramon
>
> >> ICE for publicly declaring they will not do the job they were hired to
> >> do. They should all be fired upon the first refusal.
>
> > In the first place, Gates is NOT Attorney General, that is Eric Holder.
> > Gates is Secretary of Defense and John Morton is the head of ICE.
>
> What do you want to bet Ramon got the lowest possible grade
> on his citizenship test?
Nope, I got a perfect score.
Just for the sake of argument, even if I got the lowest grade, it is
infinitely higher than that of most native-born.
We immigrants are better citizens than you natives. I can prove it.
-Ramon
Ramon F Herrera
> Ramon F Herrera <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in news:2553634b-dacc-42e2-
>
>
>
> > On Jun 3, 8:46 am, richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:27:47 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne wrote:
> >> > Citizen participation not only along the border but in every village
> >> > and town across America.
> >> > Would be cost effective.
>
> >> > Walter
>
> >> >http://www.illegalaliens.us/ Illegal Aliens USA
>
> >> Yes.
>
> >> Arizona law gives that authority to it's citizens.
>
> > > Ranchers who live near the border routinely patrol their
> > > property and when they find illegal aliens, hold them until
> > > the BP or police arrive.
>
> > AG Gates said in Faux News that ICE will not accept illegal immigrants
> > given to them by the State of Arizona. It is considered a rogue state,
> > at least in that respect.
>
> John Morton, head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement
> (ICE) has stated that his group MAY not accept SOME of the
> illegal immigrants given to them by the State of Arizona.
It is good to know that they have consistent press releases and
declarations. The first one I read was from Eric Holder, our great and
proud AG.
It is also good to know that we won the "illegal immigrant" lexical
war and youse anti-immigrants are defeated and using it.
It is bad to know that youse anti-immigrants won the "amnesty"(*)
lexical war. :-(
-Ramon
(*) Which is -per Webster unabridged- nothing of the sort. An amnesty
does not include sanctions. "Amnesty" and "punishment" are mutually
exclusive terms.
Gray Ghost
Not likely wetback.
>
> -Ramon
Wayne
<-Ramon
-
"Better citizens" don't ignore the law, and they don't support immigrants
who ignore the law.
Gray Ghost
RD Sandman
$.1cn82j62...@40tude.net:
Bottom line is that he had to pay on six counts. The point was that I
made a comment about some having to pay for their citizen's arrest
attempt. Roger Barnett was one of them. That was true regardless of
whether you believe illegals should have constitutional rights or not.
RD Sandman
8304-c06...@k31g2000vbu.googlegroups.com:
Nope, the AG is the Attorney General. He is the top federal law
enforcement officer in the country. White house lawyers and counsel
belong to a different category although all of them are in the Executive
branch. The current White House Counsel is Bob Bauer. He is a
presidential appointee.
RD Sandman
If you are trying to claim I am anti immigrant, you lose again. You
really aren't doing very well.
Gray Ghost
news:p12j065j3hfskeqea...@4ax.com:
> On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 12:04:22 -0600, richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>>Barnett was sued by the illegals he captured because Barnett denied them
>>their constitutional rights. Barnett was never charged with a crime.
>>
>>A bleeding heart liberal jury sided with the illegals.
>
> I guess anyone who believes in the constitution is a bleeding hear
> liberal.
>
> That about sum it up, st00pid?
Speaking of stupid, illegals, not being US citizens, do not have
Constitutional rights. Illegals, being here illegally are criminals.
The jury should be expelled to Mexico, Cuba or other paradise or killed.
You should shut up.
Gray Ghost
903861...@u7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
Um, you are a moron. We are not anti-immigrant. We are anti-(criminals who
violate US law by entering this country in a manner that is not lawful and
without permission from the US)-immigrant.
I guarantee if I was pres i'd revoke your citizenship and ship you back to
Uncle Hugo.
Ramon F Herrera
> "Ramon F Herrera" <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in messagenews:557152c8-03ea-465b...@j4g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 3, 10:33 pm, grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com (Gray Ghost)
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > RD Sandman <rdsandman@comcast[remove].net> wrote
> > innews:Xns9D8C96FA...@216.196.97.130:
>
> > > "RM v2.0" <B...@spamsux.com> wrote in
> > >news:eTRNn.708817$FK3.4...@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com:
>
> > >> "Ramon F Herrera" <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in message
> > >>news:2553634b-dacc-42e2...@40g2000vbr.googlegroups.com..
> > >> . On Jun 3, 8:46 am, richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> > >>> On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:27:47 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne wrote:
> > >>> > Citizen participation not only along the border but in every
> > >>> > village and town across America.
> > >>> > Would be cost effective.
>
> > >>> > Walter
>
>
> > >>> Yes.
>
> > >>> Arizona law gives that authority to it's citizens.
>
> > >> > Ranchers who live near the border routinely patrol their
> > >> > property and when they find illegal aliens, hold them until the BP or
> > >> > police arrive.
>
> > >> AG Gates said in Faux News that ICE will not accept illegal immigrants
> > >> given to them by the State of Arizona. It is considered a rogue state,
> > >> at least in that respect.
>
> > >> Hey, Arizona: Who is the illegal now? :-)
>
> > >> -Ramon
>
> > >> ICE for publicly declaring they will not do the job they were hired to
> > >> do. They should all be fired upon the first refusal.
>
> > > In the first place, Gates is NOT Attorney General, that is Eric Holder.
> > > Gates is Secretary of Defense and John Morton is the head of ICE.
>
> > What do you want to bet Ramon got the lowest possible grade
> > on his citizenship test?
>
> <Nope, I got a perfect score.
>
> <Just for the sake of argument, even if I got the lowest grade, it is
> <infinitely higher than that of most native-born.
> <
> <We immigrants are better citizens than you natives. I can prove it.
>
> <-Ramon
> -
> "Better citizens" don't ignore the law, and they
> don't support immigrants who ignore the law.
While you prefer conformity, and have no problem with mediocrity (aka
"Better citizens"): that's your prerogative. Some of us have the push
to excel and be like Washington, Jefferson, Madison and the other
founders.
We prefer to be "Best Americans" who modify and create laws, for youse
lowly pedestrians to follow.
-Ramon
Ramon F Herrera
> On Jun 3, 10:33 pm, grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com (Gray Ghost)
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > RD Sandman <rdsandman@comcast[remove].net> wrote
> > innews:Xns9D8C96FA...@216.196.97.130:
>
> > > "RM v2.0" <B...@spamsux.com> wrote in
> > >news:eTRNn.708817$FK3.4...@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com:
>
> > >> "Ramon F Herrera" <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in message
> > >>news:2553634b-dacc-42e2...@40g2000vbr.googlegroups.com..
> > >> . On Jun 3, 8:46 am, richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> > >>> On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:27:47 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne wrote:
> > >>> > Citizen participation not only along the border but in every
> > >>> > village and town across America.
> > >>> > Would be cost effective.
>
> > >>> > Walter
>
"Those of us whose ancestors risked everything as illegal immigrants,
and in the process helped found a nation, owe our forebears a debt of
gratitude, too. Without their daring disregard of immigration laws, we
might not be here today. "
http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20061228/news_lz1e28hogelan.html
-Ramon
deadrat
> Evan Platt <ev...@theobvious.espphotography.com> wrote in
> news:p12j065j3hfskeqea...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 12:04:22 -0600, richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Barnett was sued by the illegals he captured because Barnett denied them
>>>their constitutional rights. Barnett was never charged with a crime.
>>>
>>>A bleeding heart liberal jury sided with the illegals.
>>
>> I guess anyone who believes in the constitution is a bleeding hear
>> liberal.
>>
>> That about sum it up, st00pid?
>
> Speaking of stupid, illegals, not being US citizens, do not have
> Constitutional rights.
Wow! Does it hurt to be that ignorant?
No?
Too bad.
Didja miss the civics class when they covered rights protected by the
Constitution? Or did you sleep through all the classes? Everybody has
certain rights as the result of their humanity. "We holds these truths to
be self evident ..." Ring a bell?
That's the basis for our system, and the Constitution is written to require
that the state not violate those rights. Check out the Bill of Rights.
Look for the word "citizen." It's not there.
> Illegals, being here illegally are criminals.
So they are. But even criminals have rights.
> The jury should be expelled to Mexico, Cuba or other paradise or killed.
You're the one who doesn't like our system. Perhaps you'd be happier
elsewhere. Why don't you leave? Sounds like a win-win to me.
> You should shut up.
You, on the other hand, should just piss off.
Naughtius
wrote:
> Evan Platt <e...@theobvious.espphotography.com> wrote innews:p12j065j3hfskeqea...@4ax.com:
>
> > On Fri, 4 Jun 2010 12:04:22 -0600, richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> >>Barnett was sued by the illegals he captured because Barnett denied them
> >>their constitutional rights. Barnett was never charged with a crime.
>
> >>A bleeding heart liberal jury sided with the illegals.
>
> > I guess anyone who believes in the constitution is a bleeding hear
> > liberal.
>
> > That about sum it up, st00pid?
>
> Speaking of stupid, illegals, not being US citizens, do not have
> Constitutional rights. Illegals, being here illegally are criminals.
Yes... Let's Speak of "Stupid"...
EVEN The ORIGINAL "st00pid" Acknowledges, Albeit *Grudgingly*, that
"Illegals" have Constitutional Rights...
Granted, Owing To st00pid's SHORT Attention Span and LIMITED Powers
of Retention, that "Education" in Long-Settled Constitutional Law,
Principles & Precedent may well have Evaporated like the Beer and Pork
Rinds in his 12-Volt Kool-a-Tron...
Nevertheless, HOW does it feel to Alternate Between Being st00pider
than st00pid and being his Intellectual Equal?
>
> The jury should be expelled to Mexico, Cuba or other paradise or killed.
IN Violation Of The Constitutional Rights They DON'T Have, I
Presume...
>
> You should shut up.
You Should "CATCH Up"...
Naughtius "Always REMEMBER: Bull Connor Was A *DIXIEcrat..." Maximus
Ramon F Herrera
> "Ramon F Herrera" <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in messagenews:93e654bd-242e-4e7a...@c13g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
> > >Citizen participation not only along the border but in every village
> > >and town across America.
> > >Would be cost effective.
>
> > >Walter
>
>
> > It's within the law ... but it's also legally
> > dangerous. Better be 101% SURE, and be able to
> > prove it or somebody will turn the tables on you.
>
> <
> <While we are at it, let's not forget to make citizen arrests on:
> <
> < - Drug consumers
> < - Speeding drivers
> < - Tax evaders
> < - other miscellaneous
> <
> <Let me know when you'all do that, so I can pack my bags and go back to
> <Venezuela.
> <
> <-Ramon
> Do the googling yourself, and you will easily find
> that citizen's arrests have been done on speeders.
> NOW...follow through with your promise to pack and leave.
Wayne (drooling a lot of saliva): "Hey gang! I am a genius! I
discovered a way to force Ramon to leave! All we have to do is make a
citizen's arrest on one speeder! Who wants to be the speeder?".
> Assuming that was an idle promise, the least you
> can do is to try to assimilate.
Well, let's see. Assimilate? That means that I would become a typical
American, correct?
The only way to accomplish that is by having a frontal lobotomy. Hmm,
I wonder whether ObamaCare would cover it?
Not!!!
-Ramon
Gray Ghost
> On Jun 5, 10:27�am, "Wayne" <mygarbage...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> "Ramon F Herrera" <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in
>> messagenews:557152c8-03ea-465b...@j4g2000yqh.googlegroups.
>> com... On Jun 3, 10:33 pm, grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com (Gray
Do not profane thier memory by comparing yourself to them.
Ramon F Herrera
wrote:
We are better than the founders (*), and that's the way they wanted
it.
Heck, at least I don't own slaves, let alone rape them.
-RFH
(*) Some of us are, anyway.
Ray Fischer
>Evan Platt <ev...@theobvious.espphotography.com> wrote in
>> I guess anyone who believes in the constitution is a bleeding hear
>> liberal.
>>
>> That about sum it up, st00pid?
>
>Speaking of stupid, illegals, not being US citizens, do not have
>Constitutional rights.
Another America-hating bigot who hasn't read the Constitution.
In fact the constitution protects the rights of PEOPLE, and not just
citizens.
> Illegals, being here illegally are criminals.
Wrong again, bigot.
>The jury should be expelled to Mexico, Cuba or other paradise or killed.
>You should shut up.
The mentality of the fascist: "Obey without question or be executed".
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
> grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com (Gray Ghost)
> > What do you want to bet Ramon got the lowest possible grade
> > on his citizenship test?
>
>Nope, I got a perfect score.
Not saying much, though, is it? Dead easy.
>Just for the sake of argument, even if I got the lowest grade, it is
>infinitely higher than that of most native-born.
Indeed most natives haven't the first clue how thier own government is
run.
>We immigrants are better citizens than you natives. I can prove it.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
Ramon F Herrera
> Ramon F Herrera <ra...@conexus.net> wrote:
>
> > grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com (Gray Ghost)
> > > What do you want to bet Ramon got the lowest possible grade
> > > on his citizenship test?
>
> >Nope, I got a perfect score.
>
> Not saying much, though, is it? Dead easy.
>
> >Just for the sake of argument, even if I got the lowest grade, it is
> >infinitely higher than that of most native-born.
>
> Indeed most natives haven't the first clue how thier own government is
> run.
>
[Ramon's challenge:]
>>We immigrants are better citizens than natives.
>> I can prove it.
When I see the sad but true widespread support for the Arizona laws;
when polled people say they don't have trouble with the law despite
the fact that they are aware it may lead to racial profiling and
violation of citizen's rights...
When I see all that, my admiration grows toward James Madison, The
Father of the Constitution, and his visionary efforts to avoid "Mob
Rule" in this great country of ours.
-Ramon
RD Sandman
$742e...@news.sonic.net:
> Gray Ghost <grey_ghost47...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>Evan Platt <ev...@theobvious.espphotography.com> wrote in
>
>>> I guess anyone who believes in the constitution is a bleeding hear
>>> liberal.
>>>
>>> That about sum it up, st00pid?
>>
>>Speaking of stupid, illegals, not being US citizens, do not have
>>Constitutional rights.
>
> Another America-hating bigot who hasn't read the Constitution.
> In fact the constitution protects the rights of PEOPLE, and not just
> citizens.
Per the USSC in Knauff, US ex rel. v Shaunessy 338 US 537 (1950), non-
resident aliens - those who are not actually residing in the US - are
entitled to none of the protections in the Bill of Rights, including
procedural due process right to a hearing. See also Shaunessy v US ex
rel. Mezei 345 US 206 (1953).
Aliens residing in the US (resident aliens) are entitled to both Fifth
Amendment and Fourteenth Amendment protections.
The denials of rights to aliens started to change in Takahasi v Fish &
Game Commission in 1948, The Court then struck down laws prohibiting
aliens from practicing law, or denying aliens positions in a state's
competitive civil service. The states, however, have more leeway against
illegal aliens, though any person within a state, lawfully present or
not, is entitled to a minimum of due process and cannot be jailed or
deported without a hearing. See Lwon Hai Chew v Colding, 344 US 590
(1953) and Yamamaya v Fisher (Any relation?), 189 US 86 (1903). However,
the states cannot deny all benefits merely because of a person's status
as an illegal alien. In one case in Texas, the Court ruled that
Texas could not refuse to provide free public education to "undocumented
school-age children" minor children of aliens who had unlawfully crossed
the border. See Plyler v Doe, 457 US 202 (1982).
The Court has also acknowledged that "overriding national interests may
provide a justification for a citizenship requirement in the federal
service, although an identical requirement may not be enforced by a
state. See Lombard v Louisiana 373 US 267 (1963). In addition,,
Congress may refuse to let nonpermanent resident aliens receive Medicare
benefits and may require resident aliens to have lived continuously in
the country for five years before being eligible for benefits. See
Matthews v Diaz, 426 US 67 (1968).
Hope this helps...... ;)
>> Illegals, being here illegally are criminals.
>
> Wrong again, bigot.
>
>>The jury should be expelled to Mexico, Cuba or other paradise or
killed.
>>You should shut up.
>
> The mentality of the fascist: "Obey without question or be executed".
>
--
RD Sandman
aef1-cd0...@5g2000yqz.googlegroups.com:
> On Jun 5, 2:05�pm, rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>> Ramon F Herrera �<ra...@conexus.net> wrote:
>>
>> > grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com (Gray Ghost)
>> > > What do you want to bet Ramon got the lowest possible grade
>> > > on his citizenship test?
>>
>> >Nope, I got a perfect score.
>>
>> Not saying much, though, is it? �Dead easy.
>>
>> >Just for the sake of argument, even if I got the lowest grade, it is
>> >infinitely higher than that of most native-born.
>>
>> Indeed most natives haven't the first clue how thier own government is
>> run.
>>
>
> [Ramon's challenge:]
> >>We immigrants are better citizens than natives.
> >> I can prove it.
>
> When I see the sad but true widespread support for the Arizona laws;
> when polled people say they don't have trouble with the law despite
> the fact that they are aware it may lead to racial profiling and
> violation of citizen's rights...
Excuse me, Ramon, but just exactly what part of SB1070 may lead to racial
profiling or violation of citizen rights that don't already exist under
federal law? Take all the screens you need but be specific.
> When I see all that, my admiration grows toward James Madison, The
> Father of the Constitution, and his visionary efforts to avoid "Mob
> Rule" in this great country of ours.
When you see what? You haven't even read the damn law.
Ramon F Herrera
> Ramon F Herrera <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in news:41c3fe02-67a6-402f-
> aef1-cd02ba38c...@5g2000yqz.googlegroups.com:
and neither I intend to...
I haven't read Mein Kampft either.
I have not read the equations that lead to E = MC^2 (*) either.
I haven't read all the laws and books in the world, either.
If Mr. Holder, The Law of The Land, has not read that egregious
attempt at law (don't read it Eric!!) I don't see why I should read
it.
-Ramon
(*) Actually, I have derived such equations, but for the sake of this
fun argument, let's pretend I have no clue what our dear Albert (who
held two citizenships) meant.
Gray Ghost
b9f364...@w12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com:
So... you haven't read it, don't intend to but feel perfectly qualified to
comment on it.
The very defintion of moron.
deadrat
> On Jun 5, 2:05�pm, rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>> Ramon F Herrera �<ra...@conexus.net> wrote:
>>
>> > grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com (Gray Ghost)
>> > > What do you want to bet Ramon got the lowest possible grade
>> > > on his citizenship test?
>>
>> >Nope, I got a perfect score.
>>
>> Not saying much, though, is it? �Dead easy.
>>
>> >Just for the sake of argument, even if I got the lowest grade, it is
>> >infinitely higher than that of most native-born.
>>
>> Indeed most natives haven't the first clue how thier own government is
>> run.
>>
>
> [Ramon's challenge:]
> >>We immigrants are better citizens than natives.
> >> I can prove it.
>
> When I see the sad but true widespread support for the Arizona laws;
> when polled people say they don't have trouble with the law despite
> the fact that they are aware it may lead to racial profiling and
> violation of citizen's rights...
>
> Father of the Constitution, and his visionary efforts to avoid "Mob
> Rule" in this great country of ours.
>
It's often noted that the greatest political minds in history put the
Constitution together but also that we've seen precious little of the
species since then.
deadrat
> Ramon F Herrera <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in news:41c3fe02-67a6-402f-
> aef1-cd0...@5g2000yqz.googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Jun 5, 2:05 pm, rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>> Ramon F Herrera <ra...@conexus.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> > grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com (Gray Ghost)
>>> > > What do you want to bet Ramon got the lowest possible grade
>>> > > on his citizenship test?
>>>
>>> >Nope, I got a perfect score.
>>>
>>> Not saying much, though, is it? Dead easy.
>>>
>>> >Just for the sake of argument, even if I got the lowest grade, it is
>>> >infinitely higher than that of most native-born.
>>>
>>> Indeed most natives haven't the first clue how thier own government is
>>> run.
>>>
>>
>> [Ramon's challenge:]
>> >>We immigrants are better citizens than natives.
>> >> I can prove it.
>>
>> When I see the sad but true widespread support for the Arizona laws;
>> when polled people say they don't have trouble with the law despite
>> the fact that they are aware it may lead to racial profiling and
>> violation of citizen's rights...
>
> federal law? Take all the screens you need but be specific.
>
>> Father of the Constitution, and his visionary efforts to avoid "Mob
>> Rule" in this great country of ours.
>
Well, I have. It's not as bad as many right-thinking people worry, and it's not
as bad as many frightened ignoramuses hope.
In the first place, the query about citizenship status must be connected with
other violations of the law. Which happens now. The "reasonable suspicion"
isn't supposed to be tied to racial profiling, but of course, how else is the
law supposed to be begin to be effective?
Part of our tradition is recognition of universal rights and pride in not having
to justify our presence to the state; another part is enslaving black people,
annihilating Indians, interning Japanese, disenfranchising Chinese coolies, and
screaming bloody murder about immigrants while exploiting their labor.
The law is almost perfect in its disregard of our prouder traditions and its
consonance with our baser. This does not mean that the Arizona law is the
equivalent of slavery, annihilation, internment, or disenfranchisement, and it's
silly to pretend otherwise. But that observation doesn't change the fact that
the law caters to that part of our tradition we should be least proud of.
deadrat
> On Jun 5, 4:27�pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman@comcast[remove].net> wrote:
>> Ramon F Herrera <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in news:41c3fe02-67a6-402f-
Ignorant and proud of it.
>
> I haven't read Mein Kampft either.
First you'll have to figure out how to spell it.
> I have not read the equations that lead to E = MC^2 (*) either.
>
> I haven't read all the laws and books in the world, either.
Who's asking you to? Is it to much to expect that you actually know
something about the topic you're bloviating upon?
<snip/>
Naughtius
> RD Sandman <rdsandman@comcast[remove].net> wrote:
> > Ramon F Herrera <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in news:41c3fe02-67a6-402f-
As Have I...
Well... The The "Pre-Enactment" Legislative Bill that would *become
law*, anyway...
> It's not as bad as many right-thinking people worry, and it's not
> as bad as many frightened ignoramuses hope.
No... It's Not...
And when Viewed In Light of Brown v Texas... Terry v Ohio...
Kolender v Lawson, et al... It's More of a BUMBLING, INeffective,
Horde-of-Ignorami-Pleasing Bureaucratese Schlock than anything "good"
or "bad"...
"No Responder Su Preguntas"...
>
> In the first place, the query about citizenship status must be connected with
> other violations of the law. Which happens now. The "reasonable suspicion"
> isn't supposed to be tied to racial profiling, but of course, how else is the
> law supposed to be begin to be effective?
A Quick Observation: Oftentimes Legislators will Enact HOPELESSLY
Flawed/UNenforceable/UNconstitutional Law in order To Distract The
MASSES Of ASSESS whom they Hold In The Highest of Thinly-Veiled
Contempt, but never-the-less Must Placate at least until The Next "Our
SAVIOUR, The SHORT Attention Span" Election...
>
> Part of our tradition is recognition of universal rights and pride in not having
> to justify our presence to the state; another part is enslaving black people,
> annihilating Indians, interning Japanese, disenfranchising Chinese coolies, and
> screaming bloody murder about immigrants while exploiting their labor.
>
> The law is almost perfect in its disregard of our prouder traditions and its
> consonance with our baser. This does not mean that the Arizona law is the
> equivalent of slavery, annihilation, internment, or disenfranchisement,
No...
But it's Damn Sure tryin'...
>and it's
> silly to pretend otherwise. But that observation doesn't change the fact that
> the law caters to that part of our tradition we should be least proud of.
Naughtius "Quayshtuns? We Don' Ahnsur No STEENKIN' Quayshtuns..."
Maximus
Scout
"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4c0aa064$0$1655$742e...@news.sonic.net...
Odd, that's not what the US Code of Law says.
Section 8 as a clue.
Ray Fischer
That is exactly what the US code says, rightard.
>Section 8 as a clue.
Read it, dumbass.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Gray Ghost
Um, yes they are.
Matt
wrote:
> rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote innews:4c0aa064$0$1655$742e...@news.sonic.net:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Gray Ghost <grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>Ramon F Herrera <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in
>
> >>> On Jun 3, 4:49 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman@comcast[remove].net> wrote:
> >>>> Ramon F Herrera <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in news:2553634b-dacc-42e2-
> >>>> ad51-a0b11337a...@40g2000vbr.googlegroups.com:
>
> >>>> > On Jun 3, 8:46 am, richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> >>>> >> On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:27:47 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne wrote:
> >>>> >> > Citizen participation not only along the border but in every
> >>>> >> > village and town across America.
> >>>> >> > Would be cost effective.
>
> >>>> >> > Walter
>
The relevant section is Section 8, 1325 of the US Code, which reads:
(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;
misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States
at any time or place other than as designated by immigration
officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration
officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United
States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the
willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or
imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or
imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to
enter) the United States at a time or place other than as
designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil
penalty of -
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or
attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of
an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under
this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not
in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be
imposed.
(c) Marriage fraud
Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the
purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be
imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than
$250,000, or both.
(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud
Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise
for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws
shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance
with title 18, or both.
If you read it, you are both right, kind of. There are no criminal
penalties
spelled out here, all are civil. However, there is prison time
associated with
it (potentially) which is normally considered only a criminal outcome.
The
law itself, however, only states civil.
matt
Morebella Morbid
<ra...@conexus.net> wrote:
>On Jun 3, 10:33 pm, grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com (Gray Ghost)
>wrote:
>> RD Sandman <rdsandman@comcast[remove].net> wrote innews:Xns9D8C96FA...@216.196.97.130:
>>
>>
>>
>> > "RM v2.0" <B...@spamsux.com> wrote in
>> >news:eTRNn.708817$FK3.4...@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com:
>>
>> >> "Ramon F Herrera" <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in message
>> >>news:2553634b-dacc-42e2...@40g2000vbr.googlegroups.com..
>> >> . On Jun 3, 8:46 am, richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>> >>> On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:27:47 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne wrote:
>> >>> > Citizen participation not only along the border but in every
>> >>> > village and town across America.
>> >>> > Would be cost effective.
>>
>> >>> > Walter
>>
>> >>> >http://www.illegalaliens.us/Illegal Aliens USA
>>
>> >>> Yes.
>>
>> >>> Arizona law gives that authority to it's citizens.
>>
>> >> > Ranchers who live near the border routinely patrol their
>> >> > property and when they find illegal aliens, hold them until the BP or
>> >> > police arrive.
>>
>> >> AG Gates said in Faux News that ICE will not accept illegal immigrants
>> >> given to them by the State of Arizona. It is considered a rogue state,
>> >> at least in that respect.
>>
>> >> Hey, Arizona: Who is the illegal now? :-)
>>
>> >> -Ramon
>>
>> >> ICE for publicly declaring they will not do the job they were hired to
>> >> do. They should all be fired upon the first refusal.
>>
>> > In the first place, Gates is NOT Attorney General, that is Eric Holder.
>> > Gates is Secretary of Defense and John Morton is the head of ICE.
>>
>
> > What do you want to bet Ramon got the lowest possible grade
> > on his citizenship test?
>
>Nope, I got a perfect score.
>
>Just for the sake of argument, even if I got the lowest grade, it is
>infinitely higher than that of most native-born.
>
>We immigrants are better citizens than you natives. I can prove it.
>
>-Ramon
You are a hateful piece of trash and nothing more. We really don't
need your kind in this country.
I do not believe that you got a perfect score at all. In fact, I would
be willing to bet that you cheated, like you have through most of your
life. You hate America and it used to stand for and that is the only
reason you are here, to hurt the country as much as you can.
RD Sandman
IOW, you would rather flap your gums and dither about something you
nothing about.
> I haven't read Mein Kampft either.
>
> I have not read the equations that lead to E = MC^2 (*) either.
>
> I haven't read all the laws and books in the world, either.
>
> If Mr. Holder, The Law of The Land, has not read that egregious
> attempt at law (don't read it Eric!!)
He is also a moron. How can one definitively argue about something they
know nothing about?
I don't see why I should read
> it.
If you are going to whine about it don't you think it would be a good
ideas of what you are whining about? The biggest problem with SB1070 is
that the vast majority of those complaining about have no idea what it
really says. Do you feel that ignorance should be your strong suit?
RD Sandman
news:8e9a54e8-e189-4fd4...@31g2000prc.googlegroups.com:
> On Jun 6, 1:01�am, grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com (Gray Ghost)
> wrote:
>> rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote
>> innews:4c0aa064$0$1655$742ec2ed@ne
Matt, Title 18 of the United States Code is the criminal and penal code
of the federal government of the United States. It deals with federal
crimes and criminal procedure.
There is also this statement in the cite you posted:
"*Civil* penalties under this subsection are *in addition to*, and *not
in lieu of*, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be
imposed." [emphasis mine]
IOW, it is first and primarily a criminal offense not a civil one.
Ray Fischer
Wayne
"Ramon F Herrera" <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in message
news:a61c4ef1-373e-4b57...@s9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 5, 10:27 am, "Wayne" <mygarbage...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "Ramon F Herrera" <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in
>
> > > "RM v2.0" <B...@spamsux.com> wrote in
> > >news:eTRNn.708817$FK3.4...@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com:
>
> > >>news:2553634b-dacc-42e2...@40g2000vbr.googlegroups.com..
> > >> . On Jun 3, 8:46 am, richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> > >>> On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:27:47 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne wrote:
> > >>> > Citizen participation not only along the border but in every
> > >>> > village and town across America.
> > >>> > Would be cost effective.
>
> > >>> > Walter
>
>
> > >>> Yes.
>
> > >>> Arizona law gives that authority to it's citizens.
>
> > >> > Ranchers who live near the border routinely patrol their
> > >> > property and when they find illegal aliens, hold them until the BP
> > >> > or
> > >> > police arrive.
>
> > >> AG Gates said in Faux News that ICE will not accept illegal
> > >> immigrants
> > >> given to them by the State of Arizona. It is considered a rogue
> > >> state,
> > >> at least in that respect.
>
>
> > >> -Ramon
>
> > >> ICE for publicly declaring they will not do the job they were hired
> > >> to
> > >> do. They should all be fired upon the first refusal.
>
> > > In the first place, Gates is NOT Attorney General, that is Eric
> > > Holder.
> > > Gates is Secretary of Defense and John Morton is the head of ICE.
>
> > on his citizenship test?
>
> <Nope, I got a perfect score.
>
> <infinitely higher than that of most native-born.
> <
>
> <-Ramon
> -
> "Better citizens" don't ignore the law, and they
> don't support immigrants who ignore the law.
-
****since Ramon the Retard left a space in front of his post,
causing the formatting to be hosed, for clarity, I have marked his response
with "<"******
-
<While you prefer conformity, and have no problem with mediocrity (aka
<"Better citizens"): that's your prerogative. Some of us have the push
<to excel and be like Washington, Jefferson, Madison and the other
<founders.
<
<We prefer to be "Best Americans" who modify and create laws, for youse
<lowly pedestrians to follow.
<
<-Ramon
-
So now you refer to "better citizens" as "mediocrity"
If you are going to discuss this, at least be rational.
Scout
"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4c0b38e3$0$1654$742e...@news.sonic.net...
Improper entry by alien
(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;
misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who
(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other
than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully
false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material
fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under
title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a
subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or
imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
8USC1325
Now, of the illegal aliens currently in the country how many submitted to
examination or inspection by immigration officers?
Point, Set, & Match
Matt
> Matt <matttel...@sprynet.com> wrote innews:8e9a54e8-e189-4fd4...@31g2000prc.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 6, 1:01 am, grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com (Gray Ghost)
> > wrote:
> >> rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote
> >> innews:4c0aa064$0$1655$742ec2ed@ne
> > ws.sonic.net:
>
> >> > Gray Ghost <grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >>Ramon F Herrera <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in
> >> >>news:62c79d4b-9b95-43b9-8ab6-
> >> >>90386161c...@u7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> >>> On Jun 3, 4:49 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman@comcast[remove].net>
> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >>>> Ramon F Herrera <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in
> >> >>>> news:2553634b-dacc-42e2
> > -
> >> >>>> ad51-a0b11337a...@40g2000vbr.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> >>>> > On Jun 3, 8:46 am, richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> >> >>>> >> On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:27:47 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne wrote:
> >> >>>> >> > Citizen participation not only along the border but in
> >> >>>> >> > every village and town across America.
> >> >>>> >> > Would be cost effective.
>
> >> >>>> >> > Walter
>
I realize this. I also realize that it does specify certain civil
crimes as well
as criminal ones.
>
> There is also this statement in the cite you posted:
>
> "*Civil* penalties under this subsection are *in addition to*, and *not
> in lieu of*, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be
> imposed." [emphasis mine]
>
> IOW, it is first and primarily a criminal offense not a civil one.
I read that and have to admit to confusion there. In a legal sense,
the
statement says these are civil crimes, not criminal ones. In addition
to
would require an outside law (which I couldn't find, if you can point
it
out, I'd be happy to read it).
I understand your point, and really don't disagree, but it appears
that
there are civil penalties specified, and not criminal ones. Then
again,
this is our government, so why should I be surprised? To be honest,
I tended to agree with GG to begin with, there most certainly are
criminal
offenses involved. It was only when I went looking it up that it
became
unclear.
Matt
>
> --
> Sleep well tonight,
>
> RD (The Sandman)
>
> Life is like a bowl of habeneros...what you do today
> may well burn your ass tomorrow.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
RD Sandman
news:72914c66-8392-4360...@s6g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
> On Jun 6, 11:14�am, RD Sandman <rdsandman@comcast[remove].net> wrote:
>> Matt <matttel...@sprynet.com> wrote
>> innews:8e9a54e8-e189-4fd4-ae37-f96c7d
> 44f...@31g2000prc.googlegroups.com:
Yes, as being in addition to the criminal penalties.....not in lieu.
>> There is also this statement in the cite you posted:
>>
>> "*Civil* penalties under this subsection are *in addition to*, and
>> *not in lieu of*, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be
>> imposed." �[emphasis mine]
>>
>> IOW, it is first and primarily a criminal offense not a civil one.
>
> I read that and have to admit to confusion there. In a legal sense,
> the
> statement says these are civil crimes, not criminal ones.
No, it doesn't. Title 18 specifically covers criminal acts not civil
ones. It also states, quite plainly, that any civil action is in
addition to the criminal penalty not in lieu of it.
In addition
> to
> would require an outside law (which I couldn't find, if you can point
> it
> out, I'd be happy to read it).
No, it doesn't. It only means that if civil penalties are involved they
are in addition to the criminal penalties not in lieu of them.
> I understand your point, and really don't disagree, but it appears
> that
> there are civil penalties specified, and not criminal ones. Then
> again,
> this is our government, so why should I be surprised? To be honest,
> I tended to agree with GG to begin with, there most certainly are
> criminal
> offenses involved. It was only when I went looking it up that it
> became
> unclear.
--
RD Sandman
Criminal Law
1. The plaintiff is always the state or federal government.
2. Punishment may be fine and/or imprisonment.
3. State or federal statutes always establish criminal law.
4. The jury decision in a criminal trial must be unanimous.
5. The burden of proof in a criminal trial is "beyond a reasonable
doubt."
6. Only the defendant may appeal in a criminal case.
7. In a criminal case, the defendant is either guilty or not guilty.
Civil Law
1. Both parties may be anybody, including governments, corporations and
individuals.
2. The loser in a civil case cannot be imprisoned, even if he or she
cannot pay the damages.
3. Civil law is established both through state and federal statutes and
through court decisions.
4. In Missouri, the jury decision must be 9-3 for the plaintiff to win.
States vary. Federal courts do require an unanimous verdict.
5. The burden of proof in a civil trial is "preponderance of the
evidence," which sometimes is defined as "more likely than not."
6. Either party may appeal in a civil case.
7. In a civil case, the plaintiff and the defendant may both be found
partially right and partially at fault.
Ray Fischer
RD Sandman
$742e...@news.sonic.net:
Not if incarceration is involved.
Gray Ghost
$742e...@news.sonic.net:
Improper entry by alien
(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;
misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who
(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other
than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully
false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material
fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under
title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a
subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or
imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
8USC1325
Is being a complete asshole a fulltime or parttime job?
Scout
"Matt" <mattt...@sprynet.com> wrote in message
news:8e9a54e8-e189-4fd4...@31g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
Doesn't sound like a civil penalty to me, and since the overwhelming
majority of illegal aliens currently in the country can be charged with
eluding examination or inspection by immigration officers...........
I suggest Matt that you need to read your own cite a little closer.
Gray Ghost
news:p4TOn.36702$mi.1...@newsfe01.iad:
Not to mention the identity theft crimes they committ in order to work.
Scout
"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4c0bf2a9$0$1667$742e...@news.sonic.net...
I have already cited otherwise.
Scout
"Matt" <mattt...@sprynet.com> wrote in message
news:72914c66-8392-4360...@s6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
So just to be clear, you would consider the statement " Immigration
violations are not, as a rule, criminal offenses" to be false?
Ray Fischer
You have cited that, in most cases, it is a civil offense.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
No surprise that rightard bigot chooses to ignore the section of law
that show when it is a civil offense.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Gray Ghost
$h57....@newsfe22.iad:
This is what's wrong with this country. We can never reach a common ground
when morons refuse to accept reality for what it is. If the butthead were to
say, I din't think it should be illegal, but I acknowledge that as of today it
is, then you might have something to discuss. But as usual the liars and
morons will simply deny that any reality that contradicts thier agenda and
world view simply don't exist.
Aside from the collateral crimes.
1) Identity theft.
2) Taxes
a) either they will file a tax return using someone else's id
or
b) they won't file at all.
Gee where do I sign up?
deadrat
> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in
>> news:8e9a54e8-e189-4fd4...@31g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Jun 6, 1:01 am, grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com (Gray Ghost)
>>> wrote:
>>>> rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > Gray Ghost <grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >>Ramon F Herrera <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in
>>>> >>news:62c79d4b-9b95-43b9-8ab6-
>>>> >>> On Jun 3, 4:49 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman@comcast[remove].net>
>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>> >>>> Ramon F Herrera <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in
>>>> >>>> news:2553634b-dacc-42e2-
>>>> >>>> ad51-a0b11337a...@40g2000vbr.googlegroups.com:
>>>>
>>>> >>>> > On Jun 3, 8:46 am, richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>> >> On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:27:47 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne wrote:
>>>> >>>> >> > Citizen participation not only along the border but in every
>>>> >>>> >> > village and town across America.
>>>> >>>> >> > Would be cost effective.
>>>>
>>>> >>>> >> > Walter
>>>>
>> majority of illegal aliens currently in the country can be charged with
>> eluding examination or inspection by immigration officers...........
>>
>> I suggest Matt that you need to read your own cite a little closer.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Not to mention the identity theft crimes they committ in order to work.
Very few illegal aliens commit identity theft crimes when they work here
illegally. Identity theft requires more than using a SSN that you know isn't
yours. You must actually know that the SSN you're using belongs to another
person.
deadrat
> "Scout" <me4...@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote in news:wkUOn.52819
> $h57....@newsfe22.iad:
>
>>
>>
>> "Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote in message
>> news:4c0bf2a9$0$1667$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>>>>news:4c0bd7e3$0$1650$742e...@news.sonic.net:
>>>>
>>>>> Gray Ghost <grey_ghost47...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in
>>>>>>news:4c0aa064$0$1655$742e...@news.sonic.net:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Ramon F Herrera <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>news:62c79d4b-9b95-43b9-8ab6-
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 3, 4:49 pm, RD Sandman <rdsandman@comcast[remove].net>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Ramon F Herrera <ra...@conexus.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> news:2553634b-dacc-42e2-
>>>>>>>>>> ad51-a0b11337a...@40g2000vbr.googlegroups.com:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> > On Jun 3, 8:46 am, richard <mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >> On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:27:47 -0700 (PDT), walt tonne wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >> > Citizen participation not only along the border but in every
>>>>>>>>>> >> > village and town across America.
>>>>>>>>>> >> > Would be cost effective.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> > Walter
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Criminal Law
>>>
>>> Blah, blah, blah.
>>>
>>> The actual statute says it's a civil violation.
>>
>> I have already cited otherwise.
>>
>
> This is what's wrong with this country. We can never reach a common ground
> when morons refuse to accept reality for what it is. If the butthead were to
> say, I din't think it should be illegal, but I acknowledge that as of today it
> is, then you might have something to discuss. But as usual the liars and
> morons will simply deny that any reality that contradicts thier agenda and
> world view simply don't exist.
>
> Aside from the collateral crimes.
>
> 1) Identity theft.
You might apply your own rules to your own behavior. Very few illegal aliens
commit identity theft.
> 2) Taxes
> a) either they will file a tax return using someone else's id
> or
> b) they won't file at all.
Failure to file is a crime with penalties calculated on the amount you failed to
pay. The IRS rarely recommends criminal prosecution for failure to file: they
just want the money. It's hard to say how many illegals work in the underground
economy and how many just leave money to the gov in the form of withholding and
FICA.
> Gee where do I sign up?
Gee, most illegal aliens work at hard jobs in bad conditions for low pay. Jobs
you wouldn't last 20 minutes doing. Stop pretending you're about to sign up for
one of those jobs.
Scout
"Ray Fischer" <rfis...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4c0c1ae1$0$1659$742e...@news.sonic.net...
I see, so I cite a criminal offense and explain how it applies to most
cases.....and you simply ignore the proof presented.
So what do you have besides your empty assertions?