104 Tamil ancient sacred verses in Grantha script - Prof. T. P. Meenakshisundaranar's research book

[N. Ganesan]

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 8:10 PM, Nagarajan Vadivel <radius.co...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The assertion that Tamil Bhakti texts were written in a mixed mode of using

> Tamil and Grantham needs data.

> Nagarajan

>

 

Prof. Nagarajan,

 

Here are some references that members of the list will find useful

on Tamil sacred texts and inscriptions written in Grantha script.

Grantha proposal was first written so that sacred texts in Dravidian

languages do not get wrong letters in Unicode as that will lead to

loss and confusing semantics in the Web for all time to come.

i.e., The multi-language script, Grantha, has to have Dravidian/Tamil

letters to properly handle with the primary languages of south India

& not incorrectly represent the non-Indo-Aryan sacred texts, dear to

the hearts of millions of south Indians. Pl. read Thevaram verses

in http://thevaaram.org/

When Grantha comes to Unicode, we can and plan to create Thevaram properly

in Grantha plain-text web pages. This will be a teaching tool for those

interested to learn Grantha script because for Tamils (or Telugus or Kannadigas),

their native script can be compared with Grantha script.

 

This is all the more important because Grantha script will basically

remain an academic script among enthusiasts all over the World, and many

Sanskrit students of Europe, USA, Canada, Japan, SE Asia, ... and students from all over

the world who study classical Indian languages, grammars, lexicography,

orthography, evolution of Grantha to write various South East Asian

languages will learn Grantha script once it gets to the web, in addition

to those from south India who want to use it. So, in such a classical

script to be encoded in Unicode, we do not want classical texts

of south India incorrectly written without proper characters

which we are afraid will happen if Unicode does not possess these

letters. Important semantics will be lost to the students of Grantha,

if Tamil or Malayalam nouns are wrongly written.

 

(a) Recently we found out an early instance in Tamil written in Grantha text.

This is so far the earliest example of the Tamil Grantha text writing that I've

come across.

 

[Begin Quote]

 

" Curiously enough we find a copper-plate grant containing an inscription having Sanskrit and Tamil sections both written in the Grantha script [11]. The date of the record falls in 1289 AD. The Tamil portion is entirely transliterated in Grantha script following only the written form and not the form of pronunciation."

 

[11] Ep. Ind., XXXVII, pp. 175 ff

 

[End Quote]

 (pg. 243. “Convertibility of surds and sonants”—historical evidence,

KG Krishnan - Indo-Iranian Journal, 1972)

 

Dr. Krishnan, then at Epigraphy office, Mysore obviously shows

an early case of transliteration of Tamil into Grantha script.

This is followed by Tamil bhakti texts and social and property

documents written in Grantha script in Palghat region of Kerala, and also

near Kangeyam (Cf. Prof. S. Raasu's letter to UTC, Professor Emeritus

& Dept. Head (Retd.), Epigraphy & Archaeology, Tamil University).

Also, Quatrich Wales recorded many bhakti texts (in 1821 AD) being

written in Grantha script in Thailand.

 

So, like Tamil written in Arabic script called Tamil Arabic,

or Tamil written in Latin script (for Tamil Latin, refer ISO 15919 standard

- initiated by scholars like Rev. Caldwell in the middle of 19th century),

we have Tamil Grantha  (i.e., Tamil in Grantha script) starting in the 13th century.

Brahmin priests carried to neighboring lands in Kerala and S. E. Asia

in the centuries afterwards. 

 

(b) This book by Filliozat/N. Sarma also should be consulted for
Dravidian sacred texts written in Grantha script.

Textes sanskrits et tamouls de Thaïlande
Author: Neelakanta Sarma; Jean Filliozat
Publisher: Pondichéry : Institut français d'indologie ;
Paris : diffusion A. Maisonneuve, 1972

In this, Neelakanta Sharma wrote Tamil
texts in Grantha script in his own way.
But consideration of the mss. gives
little different data.

BTW, an example of Dravidian sacred texts
printed from writing in Pondicherry, s. India

quite recently.

 

(c) For an example of Dravidian letter & its

Chillu form, take a look & study this paper:

J. R. Marr, "Some Manuscripts in Grantha Script in Bangkok-II," 

Journal of the Siam Society 60, no. 2 (1972): 71-76.

 

(d) 104 Tamil sacred verses (written in Grantha script in Thailand)

will send the scans from Prof. T. P. Meenakshisundaranar's

book. 1961. (II ed., 1978), Taylantil Tiruvempavai Tiruppavai

(Contributions to the External History of the Tamils).

 

Prof. TPM (first VC, Madurai University) lists a total of 104 Tamil verses 

as Appendixes I - VII that he studied were written in Grantha script.

 

Prof. TPM's book, pp. 71-94.

 

Appendix

I Tiruppavai

II Tiruvempavai

  Uyyakkondar Arulicceyta Taniyan (also)

III Tiruvaymoli (Nammalvar)

IV Tevaram (Sambandar)

        Pumpavai Pathikam (Mylapore)

V Tevaram (Sambandar)

        Todudaiya Seviyan (Shiyali)

VI Tevaram (Sundarar)

        Pitta piRaicUDii

VII Tevaram (Appar)

       Kurrayinavaru 

 

It is interesting that these 104 sacred verses have

an order different from normal print editions we have.

 

will send in the scans from prof. TPM's important research.

N. Ganesan

[N. Ganesan]

A reply to Munaivar Sinnathurai Srivas, Tamil Araichi list:

Re: Keep or not to kee ஜ்ஹ்ஸ்ஷ்XsRi

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 6:42 PM, Sinnathurai Srivas
<sisr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> This is a request for analytical suggestions.
>
> Please write why and why not those characters should continue to be in Tamil
> block. (A separate analysis on how best to provide for archaic Grantham keeping
> will be done later).
>
> nantry
> Sinnathurai
>

I've seen many in e-lists saying the 5 Grantha letters in Tamil block
need to
be taken out. That cannot be done as there is need for transliterating
non-Tamil
words in Tamil script. Take the converse example: Govt. of India, upon
the advice
of Tamil Grantha experts, has asked for 5 Dravidian/Tamil letters
since
words like pazhan2i, paalaaRu, ten2n2an2, tolkaappiyam etc., need to
be transcribed properly and without loss of semantics.

So, Grantha in Tamil or Tamil in Grantha are essentials, and need to
be present.

Have a good day!
N. Ganesan

[N. Ganesan]

Interactions between Tamil, English and Tamil Grantha scripts
in Tamil culturescape.

As a student of Grantha script, people like Jean-Luc C. & others will
find
ஶ and its uyirmey letters very useful for transliterating non-Tamil
Indian script texts into Tamil script. That is the primary purpose
of ஶ series in Tamil block. A converse example: Govt. of India
proposal
that includes Dravidian letters, zha, Ra, n2a, short e & o are done
in accord with Brahmi principles. Just like you take ஶ to be
important,
the epigraphists and Tamil Grantha scholars consulted advised
to have the Dravidian letters, in parallel with 5 Grantha letters in
Tamil block, Why? The reason: to write names like tolkaappiyam,
ten2n2an2,
pazhan2i, paalaaRu. properly in Tamil Grantha.

A note on pathogen model. I think in recent e-mails it's derived from
a paper
by Hal Schiffman (1996). In that, Harold S. explains how many Tamils
take
Hindi script: Hindi is the virus, English is "virus protection" for
Tamil/s.
Over time, we need to modify Schiffman's model a bit more.
English is Latin script, we need to have a Brahmic script for virus
protection as well, for Hindi script as virus model, English script
supplemented by Grantha can be used as "virus protection",

N. Ganesan

[N. Ganesan]

The beautiful Tamil Grantha script needs to have Dravidian letters also in its
repertoire in the web so as to have the capacity to write names like ten2n2an,
tolkaappiyam, pazhan2i, aaziyaaRu, ... J. R. Marr (1969: BSOAS, 1972:
J. Siam Soc.) has given examples of ன plentiful. As you know well,
in old Tamil literature Siam was called சீயணம்.

Here is a special example of Dravidian special Zha letter inside
Saamaveda, I thank my friend, Prof. Asko Parpola (Helsinki, Finland)
for sending a nice scan from a grantha book printed in 1924. Asokan Parpola
wrote:

"Thank you for your message. In my opinion it is useful to include the
extra Tamil letters in the Grantha unicode. I am appending a scan of
page 145 of the Jaiminiiya-prayoga-vivaraNa by A. Rangasvaami
Ayyangaar, printed in grantha and Tamil scripts at Kumbhakonam in
1923. Here you see a Jaiminiiya Saamaveda saaman printed in grantha.
The entire text on this page is in Sanskrit and grantha, but because
in the Jaiminiiya branch of Saamaveda surviving only in South India,
the Sanskrit word iDaa is rendered iZaa, it is necessary to use the
corresponding Tamil-Malayalam letter ழ to express this. You see it in
the middle of the third line from the bottom on this page.

With best regards, Asko Parpola"

Two aavaNam-s that I wrote on this subject are:
(a) "Dravidian Letters in Tamil Grantha Script
- Some Notes in Their History of Use" - by Dr. N. Ganesan
(b) "Diacritic Marks for Short e & o Vowels (Dravidian and Vedic) in
Devanagari (North India) and Grantha (South India)" - by Dr. N.
Ganesan

More Dravidian/Tamil letters inside Grantha script books are most welcome!

Anbudan,
N. Ganesan

2011/1/28 N. Ganesan <naa.g...@gmail.com>:

[N. Ganesan]

அன்பின் அண்ணாகண்ணன்,

வல்லமை மின்னிதழியில் பேரா. தெய்வசுந்தரத்தின் கருத்தை
வாசித்தேன். அவருக்கு அனுப்பிய கேள்வி இணைத்துள்ளேன்.

will send you documents (a) & (b). Thanks, ~ ng

--------------

Dear Dr. Deivasundaram,

The proposal for Grantha encoding was done in ISCII model taking into
account the script's ability to write many languages in its history.
From 1289 CE, we have evidence of Tamil written in Grantha script in
the Chola region. Dravidian texts of the Bhakti era, held sacred by
millions, have been written in Tamil Grantha script. Like other
classical languages, Tamil and other Dravidian languages have been
written in various scripts. There is Malayalam Arabic and Tamil Arabic
(aRapit tamiz) written in Arabic script of the Middle East. Tamil like
other Indian languages have an ISO standard to be written in Latin
script. Based on the model of Unicode encoding for Tamil Brahmi
script, Tamil Grantha is proposed to be encoded. Vedas also require
short e & o vowels. For disambiguation, we used the old diacritic,
puLLi, to produce short e & o. In Rgveda itself, the goddess iZhaa,
needs LLL in Unicode terminology. I've seen alveolar n (NNN in Unicode
terminology, I helped add NNN for Malayalam Unicode).

For example,
http://groups.google.com/group/mintamil/msg/4f47d51a8632d98c


For Tamil old texts in Grantha
script, pl. read the documents:

(a) Dravidian Letters in Tamil Grantha Script
- Some Notes in Their History of Use

(b) Diacritic Marks for Short e & o Vowels (Dravidian and Vedic) in
Devanagari (North India) and Grantha (South India)

So far, we have not seen any answer to deal with all this old usages
of Grantha script? And, why should Dravidian/Tamil letters be removed
given Dravidian names will lose the accuracy in semantics if Unicode
makes it as a single-language (Sanskrit) script? Its history shows
as a multi-language script. If Grantha Unicode is made incapable
of writing Dravidian, simple names of south Indian Dravidian languages
cannot be written correctly in Tamil Grantha script.


N. Ganesan

[N. Ganesan]

Grantha will work like all major scripts of Indian languages such as
Tamil, Hindi, Malayalam, etc.,
in ISCII model which I wanted in the design of Grantha in computers
and the web.
Note that Grantha is the only script in SMP working in an ISCII model
which I wanted,
originally designed by the guru of computer technology in India in
early 70s, prof. V. Rajaraman.
Grantha has been voted and the first step is in progress as we can see
in the pipeline:
http://www.unicode.org/alloc/Pipeline.html

More later,
N. Ganesan

[Maravanpulavu K. Sachithananthan]

Early Pallava Grantha paved the way for many East Asian scripts.

Grantha is part of our heritage. The day it becomes available in
unicode, all the 18,268 hymns of Panniru Thirumurai will progressively
be available in Grantha. Also we will work out a Grantha to Devanagari
transcription / transliteration base in the site, like what we have
for other scripts. I am eagerly awaiting the availability of Grantha
in unicode.

I am meeting Prof. S. Kothandaraman from Thiruvaiyaaru this evening at
Tambaram in connection with the transcription of Grantha to
Devanagari. He will help in transcribing the Grantha text of Upamanyu
Baktha Vilasam by Seenivasa Dikshithar (16th century) to Devanagari
for typing and uploading in the site www.thevaaram.org

Short supply of computer keyboard typists in Grantha and Devanagari
with knowledge of Tamil language is a major hurdle.

Please help in identifying such typists, proof readers and editors.

[Chandrasekaran]

> Short supply of computer keyboard typists in Grantha and Devanagari
with knowledge of Tamil language is a major hurdle.

Please help in identifying such typists, proof readers and editors.

------------------------------------------------------

Sir,

I can read Devanagiri and also Tamil, type them in Unicode.

Chandrasekaran J

944444 1181

in Chennai.

To save culture & heritage visit:

www.conserveheritage.org
http://templesrevival.blogspot.com
http://reachhistory.blogspot.com
join http://groups/yahoo.com/temple_cleaners

to do your bit to uplift the society visit
www.dreamindia2020.org

[N. Ganesan]

On Aug 13, 10:19 pm, "Maravanpulavu K. Sachithananthan"

<tamiln...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Early Pallava Grantha paved the way for many East Asian scripts.
>

Not East Asian scripts. East Asia scripts CJK (Chinese, Japanese,
Korean) are
picture based logograms.

Pallava Grantha gave birth to many South East Asian scripts from
Sinhalese to
Phillipino scripts. Interestingly, in Phillipines a Christian
missionary
introduced the concept of Virama/PuLLi & he gave the Cross sign
as viraama! in 19th century. Not knowing that Virama existed in
Brahmi scripts such as Tamil or Grantha 1000+ years before him.

NG

[baran...@gmail.com]

ஐயா,

வணக்கம்..

நாங்கள் கிரந்தம், தேவநாகிரி மற்றும் இதர தென் இந்திய மொழிகளை சிறந்த முறையில் கணினியில் அச்சிட்டு தருகிறோம்.

கிரந்தம் எழுத்துக்கள் பழைய புத்தகங்களில் இருப்பது போல் அச்சிட்டு தருகிறோம்.

மாதிரிக்கு தொடர்பு கொள்ளவும்
baran...@gmail.com


தொடர்புக்கு
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