Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Clone Space
9 views
Skip to first unread message
OldGuy
Nov 23, 2012, 5:56:06 PM11/23/12
to
So I now have too many clone recommendations to sort through.
Any best for both:
Boot from CD to restore entire Win XP Pro + apps from external USB
clone data.
Boot from CD to restore entire Win XP Pro + apps from a clean clone
partition (E: as defined below).
A dedicated USB drive is pretty cheap but a lot slower than partition
to partition so a USB drive would be a last resort.
If it turns out that I can create a clone on a DVD, will any of the
clone tools boot, then let me put in the DVD and proceed to restore
from there? (Will Win XP Pro cloned image with minimal apps fit on
DVD? ). Or this this a exercise in futility. My laptop does not
support DL.
Several have suggested I clone to a partition on the C: drive of my
laptop and others to a USB Drive. Both sound good to me BUT ...
When I do a fresh install of Win XP Pro and all my apps, what is the
recommended size of the C: partition? (and therefore the size of my
clone partition?). My HD is 120 GBytes.
So based on recommendations I create three partitions.
C: for windows and some basic apps, say 10 G Apps.
D: for data
E: for clone
What size is a recommended starting point for each partition size?
i.e. I may take into account additional apps to install for the minimal
clone (Windows + my desired always present apps) when I actually set up
the partitions.
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
Any best for both:
Boot from CD to restore entire Win XP Pro + apps from external USB
clone data.
Boot from CD to restore entire Win XP Pro + apps from a clean clone
partition (E: as defined below).
A dedicated USB drive is pretty cheap but a lot slower than partition
to partition so a USB drive would be a last resort.
If it turns out that I can create a clone on a DVD, will any of the
clone tools boot, then let me put in the DVD and proceed to restore
from there? (Will Win XP Pro cloned image with minimal apps fit on
DVD? ). Or this this a exercise in futility. My laptop does not
support DL.
Several have suggested I clone to a partition on the C: drive of my
laptop and others to a USB Drive. Both sound good to me BUT ...
When I do a fresh install of Win XP Pro and all my apps, what is the
recommended size of the C: partition? (and therefore the size of my
clone partition?). My HD is 120 GBytes.
So based on recommendations I create three partitions.
C: for windows and some basic apps, say 10 G Apps.
D: for data
E: for clone
What size is a recommended starting point for each partition size?
i.e. I may take into account additional apps to install for the minimal
clone (Windows + my desired always present apps) when I actually set up
the partitions.
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
philo
Nov 23, 2012, 6:00:05 PM11/23/12
to
On 11/23/2012 04:56 PM, OldGuy wrote:
> So I now have too many clone recommendations to sort through.
> Any best for both:
> Boot from CD to restore entire Win XP Pro + apps from external USB
> clone data.
> Boot from CD to restore entire Win XP Pro + apps from a clean clone
> partition (E: as defined below).
>
> A dedicated USB drive is pretty cheap but a lot slower than partition to
> partition so a USB drive would be a last resort.
>
> If it turns out that I can create a clone on a DVD, will any of the
> clone tools boot, then let me put in the DVD and proceed to restore from
> there? (Will Win XP Pro cloned image with minimal apps fit on DVD? ).
> Or this this a exercise in futility. My laptop does not support DL.
>
> Several have suggested I clone to a partition on the C: drive of my
> laptop and others to a USB Drive. Both sound good to me BUT ...
>
> When I do a fresh install of Win XP Pro and all my apps, what is the
> recommended size of the C: partition? (and therefore the size of my
> clone partition?). My HD is 120 GBytes.
>
> So based on recommendations I create three partitions.
>
> C: for windows and some basic apps, say 10 G Apps.
> D: for data
> E: for clone
>
> What size is a recommended starting point for each partition size?
>
It's only a matter of time before your hard drive will fail.
> So I now have too many clone recommendations to sort through.
> Any best for both:
> Boot from CD to restore entire Win XP Pro + apps from external USB
> clone data.
> Boot from CD to restore entire Win XP Pro + apps from a clean clone
> partition (E: as defined below).
>
> A dedicated USB drive is pretty cheap but a lot slower than partition to
> partition so a USB drive would be a last resort.
>
> If it turns out that I can create a clone on a DVD, will any of the
> clone tools boot, then let me put in the DVD and proceed to restore from
> there? (Will Win XP Pro cloned image with minimal apps fit on DVD? ).
> Or this this a exercise in futility. My laptop does not support DL.
>
> Several have suggested I clone to a partition on the C: drive of my
> laptop and others to a USB Drive. Both sound good to me BUT ...
>
> When I do a fresh install of Win XP Pro and all my apps, what is the
> recommended size of the C: partition? (and therefore the size of my
> clone partition?). My HD is 120 GBytes.
>
> So based on recommendations I create three partitions.
>
> C: for windows and some basic apps, say 10 G Apps.
> D: for data
> E: for clone
>
> What size is a recommended starting point for each partition size?
>
It could be tomorrow or it could be 20 years from now.
My recommendation is to clone your entire drive to a totally separate
(physically) drive
Paul in Houston TX
Nov 23, 2012, 6:58:03 PM11/23/12
to
know your programs and data.
How about splitting it evenly C35/E35/D remainder?
You won't get 120 total.
A 120g hdd is probably fairly old, 4200 or 5600 rpm
with a small cache and slow xfer rate.
The usb drive is likely to be faster then partition
to partition on the same drive. C gets copied first to
ram then to E. Its a slow process.
Transfer to usb drive is likely to be faster then
partition to partition on the same drive.
usb 2.0 max is 480 mb/sec. 20 gig of data at
usb 200 mb/sec = ???
20 gig on dvd at 4 gig per dvd = ? One hour?
glee
Nov 23, 2012, 7:04:18 PM11/23/12
to
"OldGuy" <spa...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:k8ouu4$11ne$1...@adenine.netfront.net...
Do NOT make your only clone or image on the same physical hard drive as
your OS and data. Use an external hard drive connected via USB or
Firewire, or burn an image to a writable CD or DVD, or add a second
internal hard drive and use it to image your drive.
Making a cloned copy on a partition on the main drive will leave you
with nothing if the drive physically fails..... and it will one day
fail.
Most imaging/cloning utilities will burn an image to a writable CD or
DVD, and also make it bootable in the process. There is a difference
between a clone and an image, which I think someone explained in your
original thread. If you use a CD/DVD, you make an image and put it
there, you don't clone to it.
Unless your computer is so old it's USB ports are USB1.1, you should
have at least USB2.0-capable ports. Cloning or imaging to an external
USB hard drive will be faster than imaging to a CD or DVD.
--
Glen Ventura
MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
CompTIA A+
news:k8ouu4$11ne$1...@adenine.netfront.net...
your OS and data. Use an external hard drive connected via USB or
Firewire, or burn an image to a writable CD or DVD, or add a second
internal hard drive and use it to image your drive.
Making a cloned copy on a partition on the main drive will leave you
with nothing if the drive physically fails..... and it will one day
fail.
Most imaging/cloning utilities will burn an image to a writable CD or
DVD, and also make it bootable in the process. There is a difference
between a clone and an image, which I think someone explained in your
original thread. If you use a CD/DVD, you make an image and put it
there, you don't clone to it.
Unless your computer is so old it's USB ports are USB1.1, you should
have at least USB2.0-capable ports. Cloning or imaging to an external
USB hard drive will be faster than imaging to a CD or DVD.
--
Glen Ventura
MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
CompTIA A+
John Smith
Nov 23, 2012, 7:23:52 PM11/23/12
to
"OldGuy" <spa...@nospam.com> wrote in message news:k8ouu4$11ne$1...@adenine.netfront.net...
> So I now have too many clone recommendations to sort through.
> Any best for both:
> Boot from CD to restore entire Win XP Pro + apps from external USB
> clone data.
> Boot from CD to restore entire Win XP Pro + apps from a clean clone
> partition (E: as defined below).
>
> A dedicated USB drive is pretty cheap but a lot slower than partition
> to partition so a USB drive would be a last resort.
>
> If it turns out that I can create a clone on a DVD, will any of the
> clone tools boot, then let me put in the DVD and proceed to restore
> from there? (Will Win XP Pro cloned image with minimal apps fit on
> DVD? ). Or this this a exercise in futility. My laptop does not
> support DL.
>
> Several have suggested I clone to a partition on the C: drive of my
> laptop and others to a USB Drive. Both sound good to me BUT ...
>
> When I do a fresh install of Win XP Pro and all my apps, what is the
> recommended size of the C: partition? (and therefore the size of my
> clone partition?). My HD is 120 GBytes.
>
> So based on recommendations I create three partitions.
>
> C: for windows and some basic apps, say 10 G Apps.
For XP or newer 100 GB or more
> Any best for both:
> Boot from CD to restore entire Win XP Pro + apps from external USB
> clone data.
> Boot from CD to restore entire Win XP Pro + apps from a clean clone
> partition (E: as defined below).
>
> A dedicated USB drive is pretty cheap but a lot slower than partition
> to partition so a USB drive would be a last resort.
>
> If it turns out that I can create a clone on a DVD, will any of the
> clone tools boot, then let me put in the DVD and proceed to restore
> from there? (Will Win XP Pro cloned image with minimal apps fit on
> DVD? ). Or this this a exercise in futility. My laptop does not
> support DL.
>
> Several have suggested I clone to a partition on the C: drive of my
> laptop and others to a USB Drive. Both sound good to me BUT ...
>
> When I do a fresh install of Win XP Pro and all my apps, what is the
> recommended size of the C: partition? (and therefore the size of my
> clone partition?). My HD is 120 GBytes.
>
> So based on recommendations I create three partitions.
>
> C: for windows and some basic apps, say 10 G Apps.
> D: for data
20 GB for data & backup.
> E: for clone
>
Clone C & D always to a new Disk Drive for save keeping.
John Smith
Nov 23, 2012, 7:26:30 PM11/23/12
to
Mr. OldGuy
for Mr. glee is a 100% right ;)
for Mr. glee is a 100% right ;)
OldGuy
Nov 23, 2012, 10:39:28 PM11/23/12
to
Y'all missed the point.
I plan to do both: place a clone on the HD partition and on a USB
drive.
That way, if I crash I can recover without using the USB drive unless I
have to.
If I am out and about as usual, I do not want to carry the USB drive
around with me.
I plan to do both: place a clone on the HD partition and on a USB
drive.
That way, if I crash I can recover without using the USB drive unless I
have to.
If I am out and about as usual, I do not want to carry the USB drive
around with me.
Paul in Houston TX
Nov 23, 2012, 10:58:40 PM11/23/12
to
Clone is bit for bit. 108g = 108g.
Image to internal drive.
Image is compressed. My laptop: 108g = 54g image.
Most stuff is imaged, but not all.
dadiOH
Nov 24, 2012, 7:01:50 AM11/24/12
to
OldGuy wrote:
> So I now have too many clone recommendations to sort through.
> Any best for both:
> Boot from CD to restore entire Win XP Pro + apps from external USB
> clone data.
> Boot from CD to restore entire Win XP Pro + apps from a clean clone
> partition (E: as defined below).
>
> A dedicated USB drive is pretty cheap but a lot slower than partition
> to partition so a USB drive would be a last resort.
>
> If it turns out that I can create a clone on a DVD, will any of the
> clone tools boot, then let me put in the DVD and proceed to restore
> from there? (Will Win XP Pro cloned image with minimal apps fit on
> DVD? ). Or this this a exercise in futility. My laptop does not
> support DL.
Some tools, certainly, will utilize DVDs by making it bootable. I've never
> So I now have too many clone recommendations to sort through.
> Any best for both:
> Boot from CD to restore entire Win XP Pro + apps from external USB
> clone data.
> Boot from CD to restore entire Win XP Pro + apps from a clean clone
> partition (E: as defined below).
>
> A dedicated USB drive is pretty cheap but a lot slower than partition
> to partition so a USB drive would be a last resort.
>
> If it turns out that I can create a clone on a DVD, will any of the
> clone tools boot, then let me put in the DVD and proceed to restore
> from there? (Will Win XP Pro cloned image with minimal apps fit on
> DVD? ). Or this this a exercise in futility. My laptop does not
> support DL.
had the desire to do it but I suspect they will also let you use multiple
DVDs should the image file sizes exceed the capacity of one DVD.
____________________
> Several have suggested I clone to a partition on the C: drive of my
> laptop and others to a USB Drive. Both sound good to me BUT ...
>
> When I do a fresh install of Win XP Pro and all my apps, what is the
> recommended size of the C: partition? (and therefore the size of my
> clone partition?). My HD is 120 GBytes.
partition of 3.2 Gigabytes; how much larger depends upon what apps you want
on your system drive.
________________________
> So based on recommendations I create three partitions.
>
> C: for windows and some basic apps, say 10 G Apps.
> D: for data
> E: for clone
>
> What size is a recommended starting point for each partition size?
isn't necessary, you can stick them anywhere - I'd be making that partition
equal in size to my system partition. If you also intend to image your data
partition, I'd make the image partition size equal to the system partition
*plus* the data partition *plus* enough extra to allow growth in the data
partition.
If you screw up in sizing the partitions you can always resize them but that
isn't super easy and there is some peril connected with the process.
___________________
You would be well served by checking out Paragon Software. Here is a link
to free stuff, check out the not free too.
http://www.paragon-software.com/free/
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net
J. P. Gilliver (John)
Nov 26, 2012, 2:58:22 AM11/26/12
to
In message <k8p42p$hps$1...@news.mixmin.net>, John Smith
for OS, software, and those few badly-behaved prog.s that insist on
keeping stuff on C. After some years, my C: has 17.9 used, 12.0 free; my
D: 58.0 used (including some backups), 54.9 free. Everyone's M Vs,
especially in the data partition (for most people, it's mostly
influenced by how much video data you keep); I think 100G would be a bit
excessive for C: (under XP - not sure about 7; still probably a _bit_
big, but a 7 system's likely to have a huge HD anyway), but whatever.
>
>> E: for clone
>>
We all have our differing views on this; obviously an off-drive clone or
image protects against HD failure, but I'm with Oldguy in the idea of
having something on the same drive as well, for when you don't have the
external drive with you - assuming you have the means to boot. I don't
have a _partition_ as such: I use ERUNT, combined with (at ERUNT's
author's suggestion when I asked him about booting) BartPE which gives
me a boot menu. (And yes, I have checked that I can boot into it and
copy things back from one of my ERUNT saves.) But a clone partition will
allow you to make more of a backup than ERUNT does, provided you have a
way to actually use it when necessary. (I use ERUNT because ERD/ERU got
me out of scrapes more than once under '98; I haven't had to actually
use ERUNT under XP so far, though as I say have made sure I could if I
needed to.)
after some years - think I made a good decision); YMMV.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
I don't see the requirement to upset people. ... There's enough to make fun of
without offending. - Ronnie Corbett, in Radio Times 6-12 August 2011.
<som...@microsoft.com> writes:
>"OldGuy" <spa...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:k8ouu4$11ne$1...@adenine.netfront.net...
[]
>"OldGuy" <spa...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:k8ouu4$11ne$1...@adenine.netfront.net...
>> When I do a fresh install of Win XP Pro and all my apps, what is the
>>recommended size of the C: partition? (and therefore the size of my
>>clone partition?). My HD is 120 GBytes.
>> So based on recommendations I create three partitions.
>> C: for windows and some basic apps, say 10 G Apps.
>
>For XP or newer 100 GB or more
>
>> D: for data
>
>20 GB for data & backup.
>
Mine is nominally 160; I made it 30 C rest D, and have tried to keep C
>>recommended size of the C: partition? (and therefore the size of my
>>clone partition?). My HD is 120 GBytes.
>> So based on recommendations I create three partitions.
>> C: for windows and some basic apps, say 10 G Apps.
>
>For XP or newer 100 GB or more
>
>> D: for data
>
>20 GB for data & backup.
>
for OS, software, and those few badly-behaved prog.s that insist on
keeping stuff on C. After some years, my C: has 17.9 used, 12.0 free; my
D: 58.0 used (including some backups), 54.9 free. Everyone's M Vs,
especially in the data partition (for most people, it's mostly
influenced by how much video data you keep); I think 100G would be a bit
excessive for C: (under XP - not sure about 7; still probably a _bit_
big, but a 7 system's likely to have a huge HD anyway), but whatever.
>
>> E: for clone
>>
We all have our differing views on this; obviously an off-drive clone or
image protects against HD failure, but I'm with Oldguy in the idea of
having something on the same drive as well, for when you don't have the
external drive with you - assuming you have the means to boot. I don't
have a _partition_ as such: I use ERUNT, combined with (at ERUNT's
author's suggestion when I asked him about booting) BartPE which gives
me a boot menu. (And yes, I have checked that I can boot into it and
copy things back from one of my ERUNT saves.) But a clone partition will
allow you to make more of a backup than ERUNT does, provided you have a
way to actually use it when necessary. (I use ERUNT because ERD/ERU got
me out of scrapes more than once under '98; I haven't had to actually
use ERUNT under XP so far, though as I say have made sure I could if I
needed to.)
>
>Clone C & D always to a new Disk Drive for save keeping.
>
I suppose so; I'd say copying D: was sufficient, rather than cloning.
>Clone C & D always to a new Disk Drive for save keeping.
>
>
>> What size is a recommended starting point for each partition size?
>> i.e. I may take into account additional apps to install for the
>>minimal clone (Windows + my desired always present apps) when I
>>actually set up the partitions.
>
I guessed at the 30G when I started (and from the above - 17.9 used
>> What size is a recommended starting point for each partition size?
>> i.e. I may take into account additional apps to install for the
>>minimal clone (Windows + my desired always present apps) when I
>>actually set up the partitions.
>
after some years - think I made a good decision); YMMV.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
I don't see the requirement to upset people. ... There's enough to make fun of
without offending. - Ronnie Corbett, in Radio Times 6-12 August 2011.
Paul
Nov 26, 2012, 10:28:20 AM11/26/12
to
should be enough. That gives say 4GB base install, 3GB
for System Restore, 10GB for your apps, 3GB left for the
temp directory.
You can always resize partitions if you get it wrong. I use
my old copy of Partition Magic for Win2K or WinXP work,
subject to some size limits.
Only you can estimate the size of the apps. I've had some that
chewed up a lot of space. It really depends on what you're
installing. Some CAD tools and software development environments
are huge.
These are some of my installs here.
Win2K: 20GB with apps, no data. Separate 20GB data partition.
WinXP: 70GB partition, mostly data, plus the OS.
No clever restoration strategies. I image the
whole partition as a backup strategy. Have at
least a half dozen images sitting around. If it
"tipped over", I'd reinstall it.
Win7: 40GB C:, apps and OS. (26GB used.) Little data.
System Restore set to 0.5GB (i.e. don't care).
Search Index stored on another partition.
Uses System Image built-in as a backup tool, to a separate
old 80GB disk.
HTH,
Paul
John Smith
Nov 26, 2012, 11:16:22 AM11/26/12
to
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:uQEbZmPe...@soft255.demon.co.uk...
You right J.P. it's up too you,
for all of us is giving just a
and a not written in stone..
For my HP when new was:
HP_PAVION C 140GB NTFS
HP_RECOVERY D 8.49GB DOS
Virtual Memory is:14GB
for that is Total paging file size for diver,
C 140GB - VM 14GB = C 126GB
C 126GB - OS-sp3 with updates 9GB = 117GB
Now MS Office is big software and so is the .NET,
and who know all the software he put on it too..
For after I put all that needed I had 60GB free.
to day I have 20GB free out of 140GB,
so I use 120GB..
You right J.P but not a 100%..
for I not right here too,
because we do not know that Software he be running..
for all of us is giving just a
and a not written in stone..
For my HP when new was:
HP_PAVION C 140GB NTFS
HP_RECOVERY D 8.49GB DOS
Virtual Memory is:14GB
for that is Total paging file size for diver,
C 140GB - VM 14GB = C 126GB
C 126GB - OS-sp3 with updates 9GB = 117GB
Now MS Office is big software and so is the .NET,
and who know all the software he put on it too..
For after I put all that needed I had 60GB free.
to day I have 20GB free out of 140GB,
so I use 120GB..
You right J.P but not a 100%..
for I not right here too,
because we do not know that Software he be running..
Greegor
Nov 28, 2012, 3:16:10 PM11/28/12
to
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/browse_frm/thread/d144d8af6c69d720?hl=en#
I use WinXP Pro updated to SP3 with every update
and it takes up about 8.9 GB when new and expands
to 12.5 GB after a year of use, because of restore
points, uninstall files, installed programs like
Microsoft Security Essentials (virus scanner),
Adobe reader,Flash, SW Player
Java and DirectX ( Is there a DirectX newer than 9.0c? )
etc.
I use either 15 GB or 20 GB for First and Last partitions and
all of the rest is one huge DATA drive.
If somebody gets a Virus or gets infested with a browser
hack or a bad Microsoft install, it only takes 1/2 hour
for XXClone (free) to clone from Fisrt to Last or
(if you boot from Last, to clone from there) to the
first partition (C:) to re-virginize the boot.
90% of the time people reinstall or clone a boot
it is NOT because a disk drive DIED, but because
they tangled up in a virus, browser hack or
another Microsoft update disaster.
(Like an Aug 2012 MSE update which tried to
uninstall the old MSE, but the old MSE had
broken uninstall files compliments of Microsoft.)
I've been lucky though, that the last few virii
my SO downloaded did NOT infected the
Last partition though!
That CAN happen, or the drive can die of course.
(That's why you want a backup image cloned
onto a detached drive and put away. I use
one of my old drives with 20GB or more and
make it bootable as well. For "last ditch"
situations that DO arise. )
An image clone to USB may or may not be
bootable, and even if your main drive uses a
SATA interface (And SW SATA drivers) an image
of that placed onto an IDE or USB might not
be bootable because of driver differences.
The drivers for SATA / IDE / USB external / USB Flash
are not all the same and the differences can
cometimes trip you up.
Not a problem for the ( First/DATA/Last ) setup
clone operations booting, but you need to overcome
those differences to make the necessary
detached clone backup.
If you've got a SATA drive, the best (and fastest)
detacheable backup drive is another SATA drive
temporarily hooked up to the second port on the
same SATA controller.
Some computers only have one SATA hardware port.
An add-in card to get a 2nd SATA port might work for
cloning but I wouldn't guarantee it because many
add in SATA ports are NOT bootable.
I have a situation myself where the mainboards I
use have only one SATA connector actually
populated and the second SATA port is there
on the same controller chip, and the BIOS
actually supports a second SATA port/drive.
One of these days I will ( carefully! ) solder
a second SATA connector onto one main board.
Not for amateurs.
I'd rig an outside power supply and all because
an outside SATA drive on the SAME controller
chip looks like an ideal recipe for bootable clones.
A system that can boot from an eSATA
(external SATA) drive would be good for this.
I tried the image file route, I actually LIKED
Ghost back in the Win98SE days but it's
not free, and image files take a bit longer
(packing to proprietary format) and are not
bootable.
A few of the freebie image file programs I
tried were rediculously SLOW!
There is another tricky wrinkle:
Some SATA ports on computers are set so
they act like the older IDE type of drive
so that software sees them as IDE drives.
It's an old "legacy" support thing that is
fading in popularity, but meant that the
Windows system didn't need a SATA
driver because Windows sees the SATA
drive as an IDE drive. (Not as fast maybe?)
A cloned system parition is more useful than
Glen thinks it is, and it's certainly better than
no backup of the system. Most of the time you
need to "re-virginize" the boot partition, cloning
from the "Last" partition is fabulous.
Yes, the occasional "last ditch" situation means
you really should make a detached, put away
drive with a cloned partition and make sure it's bootable.
The drivers, MBR and Bootsector stuff can cause
some technical wrinkles but I hope I explained
those well enough to help.
I run 5 Dell GX-280 SDT machines with 0g8310
main boards (intentionally matched), 3.4 GHz processors,
2 Gigs of RAM and 160 GB SATA drives with
OEM WinXP Pro updated to SP3.
I got them for about $125 each "off lease" through eBay.
Dell sold tens of thousands of this make and model.
I've also got one that got bounced in shipping and
is now a parts donor, but I'll probably buy two
more to have whole systems as backups.
The bootable cloning stuff works easier
if your source and destination drives are
of the same type, not crossing from
IDE to SATA or vice versa.
What are your system specs OldGuy?
Does your main drive have a SATA or IDE
hardware interface? Is there a connector
or cable for a second SATA off the same
controller?
If I was partitioning your 200 GB I would start
by partitioning a very generous 20 Gigs for
First and Last and let the rest be a DATA partition.
In round numbers:
20000
160000
20000
Except that hard disk allocation is not
in those nice round numbers..
(Blame binary arithmetic, computer math.)
I use the install CD to partition, because
it is the "official" way to format for Windows.
Backup your Product Key and all software
and then delete all partitions or use a new
drive with none to begin with.
For the first partition type in 20000 (20 GB)
and look for the number it gets translated to
in terms of the hard disk. Not an even 20000.
Then I enter that number to do a second partition
of that exact same (translated) size.
Write down the exact digits for the remaining big chunk.
Then I delete the second partition and make
a second partition of that big size.
The remainder should be the exact same
translated size as the first one.
Don't forget to enter that to make the third (Last)
partition exactly the same size as the First.
I usually make a little tag with the translated
numbers and tape them to the drive so I don't
mark directly on the drive.
Something like:
20123
159123
20123
( but based on the translated numbers from
the method above )
And then point the installer CD to the First
partition to install to the First partition.
After it's booting OK without the CD, go into..
Start > Settings > Control Panel > Administrative Tools
> Computer Management > Disk Management
(Right click on the partition you want and select format
for the middle and Last partition.)
Label the three partitions First, DATA and Last to help
keep them straight for cloning operations.
(Makes booting on Last a whole lot less confusing
because it swaps First and Last in order to do that.)
Tinker with First until it's the way you like it then
clone from First partition to the Last partition.
In XXClone don't forget to run it again to get
access to "Cool Tools" to make the drive
fully bootable or set the system up with a menu
to be dual bootable.
It uses Microsoft's own multi boot menus.
I hope it helps!
I use WinXP Pro updated to SP3 with every update
and it takes up about 8.9 GB when new and expands
to 12.5 GB after a year of use, because of restore
points, uninstall files, installed programs like
Microsoft Security Essentials (virus scanner),
Adobe reader,Flash, SW Player
Java and DirectX ( Is there a DirectX newer than 9.0c? )
etc.
I use either 15 GB or 20 GB for First and Last partitions and
all of the rest is one huge DATA drive.
If somebody gets a Virus or gets infested with a browser
hack or a bad Microsoft install, it only takes 1/2 hour
for XXClone (free) to clone from Fisrt to Last or
(if you boot from Last, to clone from there) to the
first partition (C:) to re-virginize the boot.
90% of the time people reinstall or clone a boot
it is NOT because a disk drive DIED, but because
they tangled up in a virus, browser hack or
another Microsoft update disaster.
(Like an Aug 2012 MSE update which tried to
uninstall the old MSE, but the old MSE had
broken uninstall files compliments of Microsoft.)
I've been lucky though, that the last few virii
my SO downloaded did NOT infected the
Last partition though!
That CAN happen, or the drive can die of course.
(That's why you want a backup image cloned
onto a detached drive and put away. I use
one of my old drives with 20GB or more and
make it bootable as well. For "last ditch"
situations that DO arise. )
An image clone to USB may or may not be
bootable, and even if your main drive uses a
SATA interface (And SW SATA drivers) an image
of that placed onto an IDE or USB might not
be bootable because of driver differences.
The drivers for SATA / IDE / USB external / USB Flash
are not all the same and the differences can
cometimes trip you up.
Not a problem for the ( First/DATA/Last ) setup
clone operations booting, but you need to overcome
those differences to make the necessary
detached clone backup.
If you've got a SATA drive, the best (and fastest)
detacheable backup drive is another SATA drive
temporarily hooked up to the second port on the
same SATA controller.
Some computers only have one SATA hardware port.
An add-in card to get a 2nd SATA port might work for
cloning but I wouldn't guarantee it because many
add in SATA ports are NOT bootable.
I have a situation myself where the mainboards I
use have only one SATA connector actually
populated and the second SATA port is there
on the same controller chip, and the BIOS
actually supports a second SATA port/drive.
One of these days I will ( carefully! ) solder
a second SATA connector onto one main board.
Not for amateurs.
I'd rig an outside power supply and all because
an outside SATA drive on the SAME controller
chip looks like an ideal recipe for bootable clones.
A system that can boot from an eSATA
(external SATA) drive would be good for this.
I tried the image file route, I actually LIKED
Ghost back in the Win98SE days but it's
not free, and image files take a bit longer
(packing to proprietary format) and are not
bootable.
A few of the freebie image file programs I
tried were rediculously SLOW!
There is another tricky wrinkle:
Some SATA ports on computers are set so
they act like the older IDE type of drive
so that software sees them as IDE drives.
It's an old "legacy" support thing that is
fading in popularity, but meant that the
Windows system didn't need a SATA
driver because Windows sees the SATA
drive as an IDE drive. (Not as fast maybe?)
A cloned system parition is more useful than
Glen thinks it is, and it's certainly better than
no backup of the system. Most of the time you
need to "re-virginize" the boot partition, cloning
from the "Last" partition is fabulous.
Yes, the occasional "last ditch" situation means
you really should make a detached, put away
drive with a cloned partition and make sure it's bootable.
The drivers, MBR and Bootsector stuff can cause
some technical wrinkles but I hope I explained
those well enough to help.
I run 5 Dell GX-280 SDT machines with 0g8310
main boards (intentionally matched), 3.4 GHz processors,
2 Gigs of RAM and 160 GB SATA drives with
OEM WinXP Pro updated to SP3.
I got them for about $125 each "off lease" through eBay.
Dell sold tens of thousands of this make and model.
I've also got one that got bounced in shipping and
is now a parts donor, but I'll probably buy two
more to have whole systems as backups.
The bootable cloning stuff works easier
if your source and destination drives are
of the same type, not crossing from
IDE to SATA or vice versa.
What are your system specs OldGuy?
Does your main drive have a SATA or IDE
hardware interface? Is there a connector
or cable for a second SATA off the same
controller?
If I was partitioning your 200 GB I would start
by partitioning a very generous 20 Gigs for
First and Last and let the rest be a DATA partition.
In round numbers:
20000
160000
20000
Except that hard disk allocation is not
in those nice round numbers..
(Blame binary arithmetic, computer math.)
I use the install CD to partition, because
it is the "official" way to format for Windows.
Backup your Product Key and all software
and then delete all partitions or use a new
drive with none to begin with.
For the first partition type in 20000 (20 GB)
and look for the number it gets translated to
in terms of the hard disk. Not an even 20000.
Then I enter that number to do a second partition
of that exact same (translated) size.
Write down the exact digits for the remaining big chunk.
Then I delete the second partition and make
a second partition of that big size.
The remainder should be the exact same
translated size as the first one.
Don't forget to enter that to make the third (Last)
partition exactly the same size as the First.
I usually make a little tag with the translated
numbers and tape them to the drive so I don't
mark directly on the drive.
Something like:
20123
159123
20123
( but based on the translated numbers from
the method above )
And then point the installer CD to the First
partition to install to the First partition.
After it's booting OK without the CD, go into..
Start > Settings > Control Panel > Administrative Tools
> Computer Management > Disk Management
(Right click on the partition you want and select format
for the middle and Last partition.)
Label the three partitions First, DATA and Last to help
keep them straight for cloning operations.
(Makes booting on Last a whole lot less confusing
because it swaps First and Last in order to do that.)
Tinker with First until it's the way you like it then
clone from First partition to the Last partition.
In XXClone don't forget to run it again to get
access to "Cool Tools" to make the drive
fully bootable or set the system up with a menu
to be dual bootable.
It uses Microsoft's own multi boot menus.
I hope it helps!
OldGuy
Nov 28, 2012, 5:39:08 PM11/28/12
to
I am working with laptops.
They are SATA drives in each.
I just upgraded my laptop 120G to 320G SATA without problem and set
three partitions of ~100G each. Loaded Win XP Pro and all my apps on
C: and data on D:, reserving E: for an Image (Image also to external
USB drive).
I decided to use Macrium Reflect Free.
Why? It can create a clone or an image.
I like the image since it can go to any media easily.
This can be written to another new drive or overwrite the corrupted C:
using the Macrium Reflect Free rescue CD that I finally figured out how
to create.
The Image process was very quick. I can just copy that single image
file anywhere, like a USB drive. The image is about 70% of the
original C:.
I am not doing dual-boot on these laptops. Don't need it here.
I have dual boot on my desktop using Win 7 dual booting to Win XP Pro.
That works just fine.
Thanks for yor insights.
They are SATA drives in each.
I just upgraded my laptop 120G to 320G SATA without problem and set
three partitions of ~100G each. Loaded Win XP Pro and all my apps on
C: and data on D:, reserving E: for an Image (Image also to external
USB drive).
I decided to use Macrium Reflect Free.
Why? It can create a clone or an image.
I like the image since it can go to any media easily.
This can be written to another new drive or overwrite the corrupted C:
using the Macrium Reflect Free rescue CD that I finally figured out how
to create.
The Image process was very quick. I can just copy that single image
file anywhere, like a USB drive. The image is about 70% of the
original C:.
I am not doing dual-boot on these laptops. Don't need it here.
I have dual boot on my desktop using Win 7 dual booting to Win XP Pro.
That works just fine.
Thanks for yor insights.
Greegor
Nov 29, 2012, 9:18:24 AM11/29/12
to
100 GB for system partition is probably WAY too big!
The main reason I switched from having just one
huge partition with system and data all mixed together
was that I could not just replace just the system partition
without involving EVERYTHING stored on the drive.
Image files have the advantage that they are like
time capsules of everything on the drive yet they
can be stored as data files, even on a USB drive
or an old IDE drive.
If your boot partition gets jammed up with
registry clutter, virii or Windows updates
failing in a "grey state" then you would
need to boot from something other than
the boot partition to re-write the boot partition.
That's why they use a Rescue CD, right?
So you can boot from that and rewrite the
boot partition from an image file?
Do your laptops all identical and do they all
use the same Windows "Product Key"?
I don't mean from the sticker on the side
but if you extract it using Magic Jelly Bean
or some other Key Finder program?
(OEM computers typically only use the
COA sticker product key as a last resort
after the factory install is lost or wiped.)
So you've got to pull it from SW...
If conditions are right you might be able
to make a "master" image for each
model of laptop, instead of each individual one.
Ghost was wildly popular at one point back
on the Win98SE era of machines because
you could stash images or clone drives or partitions.
But if you clone a drive with it installed
to multiple machines, then you are
obligated to remove it from all machines
you don't legally have Ghost licenses for.
And the Ghost proprietary formats changed,
so that new versions could not retrieve
image files created two versions back.
This slowed it down considerably with IT
people who have to conform to software
copyright audits.
Macrium is copyrighted software and they
want to get paid for each machine also,
don't they?
The thing I liked about XXClone (Free) is that
I can clone the heck out of it, right
ON every drive/partition and not violate
their copyright restrictions.
Being able to actually BOOT the clones
is the ultimate integrity test for fitness.
Does Macrium's copyright allow for that?
Or do they expect you to PAY for a license
to cover every laptop you have?
The Macrium image files might be slightly
less vulnerable to virus infection but I would
certainly advise you to make the boot partition
smaller and more easily swapped right
out from under your data partition.
Again though, glad you found what works for you.
OldGuy
Nov 30, 2012, 10:11:48 AM11/30/12
to
Laptops are nearly the same and each has its own XP Pro install CD due
to slightly different drivers used. I tried swapping XP Pro install
CDs but the laptop would not boot with the wrong install; mismatch
drivers.
Macrium Reflect Free is all free $0.00 and can be used where ever; no
limitations.
Check their website for the additional features for the paid versions.
I do not need those features but would not mind paying the low price
for their software.
The Rescue disk is bootable and will allow recreating C: from a
partition or external USB drive Image.
And yes, I need to create the Image for each laptop.
BTW you are posting to multiple places and my MesNews complains about
that and will not let me post to that many places so I have to fiddle
with the Destination(Group). Your posts show up in other groups by
themselves without my posts.
to slightly different drivers used. I tried swapping XP Pro install
CDs but the laptop would not boot with the wrong install; mismatch
drivers.
Macrium Reflect Free is all free $0.00 and can be used where ever; no
limitations.
Check their website for the additional features for the paid versions.
I do not need those features but would not mind paying the low price
for their software.
The Rescue disk is bootable and will allow recreating C: from a
partition or external USB drive Image.
And yes, I need to create the Image for each laptop.
BTW you are posting to multiple places and my MesNews complains about
that and will not let me post to that many places so I have to fiddle
with the Destination(Group). Your posts show up in other groups by
themselves without my posts.
Greegor
Nov 30, 2012, 1:16:44 PM11/30/12
to
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/browse_frm/thread/d144d8af6c69d720/e24c949803d0bdf8?hl=en#e24c949803d0bdf8
On Nov 30, 9:11 am, OldGuy <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> Laptops are nearly the same and each has its own XP Pro install CD due
> to slightly different drivers used. I tried swapping XP Pro install
> CDs but the laptop would not boot with the wrong install; mismatch
> drivers.
Yup. I took great pains to avoid any mismatch among mine.
Even within one make and model you can get at least 5
different models of mainboard. I settled on one and
when I bought more the first thing I insist on is getting
the exact model of mainboard I need. Will do the same
when I pick up 2 more in the next few months.
Having to stash a whole bunch of different boot images
was a nightmare I had experienced before.
I see that Macrium Reflect Pro says it can restore
to dissimilar hardware. Now THAT would be special!
Are you going to buy the Pro version and
try out that feature?
> Macrium Reflect Free is all free $0.00 and can
> be used where ever; no limitations.
Good! Usually the freebie versions like that
restrict you to one machine. Lots of free
software are free for one machine only.
Use them in a business or more than one
system and you're supposed to pay for them.
I didn't see any limitation as to number of machines
for cloning, but I found this:
http://www.macrium.com/help/v5-free/Introduction/End_User_License_Agreement.htm
Data Protection
Macrium Reflect™ contains functionality which enables us to verify
your compliance with this License, It does so by collecting and
passing to us the identity of each Computer on which you load or
attempt to load Macrium Reflect™.
On Nov 30, 9:11 am, OldGuy <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> Laptops are nearly the same and each has its own XP Pro install CD due
> to slightly different drivers used. I tried swapping XP Pro install
> CDs but the laptop would not boot with the wrong install; mismatch
> drivers.
Even within one make and model you can get at least 5
different models of mainboard. I settled on one and
when I bought more the first thing I insist on is getting
the exact model of mainboard I need. Will do the same
when I pick up 2 more in the next few months.
Having to stash a whole bunch of different boot images
was a nightmare I had experienced before.
I see that Macrium Reflect Pro says it can restore
to dissimilar hardware. Now THAT would be special!
Are you going to buy the Pro version and
try out that feature?
> Macrium Reflect Free is all free $0.00 and can
> be used where ever; no limitations.
restrict you to one machine. Lots of free
software are free for one machine only.
Use them in a business or more than one
system and you're supposed to pay for them.
I didn't see any limitation as to number of machines
for cloning, but I found this:
http://www.macrium.com/help/v5-free/Introduction/End_User_License_Agreement.htm
Data Protection
Macrium Reflect™ contains functionality which enables us to verify
your compliance with this License, It does so by collecting and
passing to us the identity of each Computer on which you load or
attempt to load Macrium Reflect™.
0 new messages