A picture being worth 1000 words, probably a release-cycles pictures like the one used by Ubuntu here will certainly help people understand the meanings of STS and LTS:
Typically, for productive web-servers, you do not use STS, as most hosting panel software don't support them, and you don't want to upgrade too often your fine-running security-maintained LTS-based server.
On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:05:07 PM UTC+2, Steve wrote:
> Thanks for your feedback everyone.
> We'll have a go at creating some materials that say something like this:
> - Joomla 2.5 is the LTS and the recommended version for people wanting > a lot of extensions, templates etc. > - Joomla 3 is the STS. It's a great version but perhaps best suited > for developers and / or people wanting new, more straightforward sites.
> We'll make sure to distribute this materials before launch, particularly > to the dev team, to make sure they're happy with the message.
> We can then reassess after launch. When the upgrade / migration is > confirmed to be smooth, we can start to encourage people to upgrade, > whether that happens at 3.0.1 or 3.1 or 3.5.
> On Monday, July 9, 2012 9:28:18 AM UTC-4, Jen Kramer wrote:
>> Hello all--
>> The marketing group has been discussing the Joomla 3 rollout, but we are >> realizing we need information about the plans about the updater.
>> We are still working on the message, but we think that this is the story >> behind what we'll advise people for migrating:
>> - If you're on Joomla 2.5, stay on Joomla 2.5 until Joomla 3.5 comes out, >> and migrate then.
>> - If you're building a new site, build in 2.5 for stability (and migrate >> to 3.5 when it's ready) or build in 3.x for the cutting-edge features. Be >> sure to keep up with updates if you take this path (3.0, 3.1, 3.5).
>> Note that this marketing message assumes much on the development end. So >> the next question is whether our assumptions are true, and whether the >> development vision is coinciding with the marketing message.
>> a. There is an easy migration path (hopefully "one click") from Joomla >> 2.5 to Joomla 3.5.
>> b. If I'm running a Joomla 2.5 site, I'm getting notifications about >> Joomla 2.5 updates. Hopefully I'm not even seeing notifications about >> Joomla 3.x updates until Joomla 3.5.0 is released.
>> What we'd like to avoid as a community is this (think about clients for >> the most part):
>> - My Joomla 2.5 site tells me 3.0 is available. I click the one click >> update. The interface is radically different, and my extensions break. >> Surprise!
>> - I just paid to have my 1.5 site moved to 2.5, and now 3.0 is available? >> Quick, move me to XYZ CMS so I don't have to deal with these crazy Joomla >> updates anymore!
>> I think the best solution is that 2.5 updates are delivered via the >> Joomla Updater to 2.5 sites, unless an option is changed. Think going into >> Options and toggling a button to show the next release cycle or something >> similar.
One typical real-life scenario could be something like this:
1. Company X is starting a new big site that will take some time to
develop and get going. They choose version 3.0 figuring that it will
actually be 3.1 or maybe even 3.5 by they time the site is deployed.
They want to be on a current version when the site is deployed, or
maybe they need some 3.x functionality.
2. Once 3.5 is available, they upgrade to that and then stay on the
LTS version going forward, since they are happy with the functionality
they have.
3. They upgrade from 3.5 to 4.5, 4.5 to 5.5, etc.
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 6:26 AM, Beat <beat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A picture being worth 1000 words, probably a release-cycles pictures like
> the one used by Ubuntu here will certainly help people understand the
> meanings of STS and LTS:
> Typically, for productive web-servers, you do not use STS, as most hosting
> panel software don't support them, and you don't want to upgrade too often
> your fine-running security-maintained LTS-based server.
> On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:05:07 PM UTC+2, Steve wrote:
>> Thanks for your feedback everyone.
>> We'll have a go at creating some materials that say something like this:
>> Joomla 2.5 is the LTS and the recommended version for people wanting a lot
>> of extensions, templates etc.
>> Joomla 3 is the STS. It's a great version but perhaps best suited for
>> developers and / or people wanting new, more straightforward sites.
>> We'll make sure to distribute this materials before launch, particularly
>> to the dev team, to make sure they're happy with the message.
>> We can then reassess after launch. When the upgrade / migration is
>> confirmed to be smooth, we can start to encourage people to upgrade, whether
>> that happens at 3.0.1 or 3.1 or 3.5.
>> On Monday, July 9, 2012 9:28:18 AM UTC-4, Jen Kramer wrote:
>>> Hello all--
>>> The marketing group has been discussing the Joomla 3 rollout, but we are
>>> realizing we need information about the plans about the updater.
>>> We are still working on the message, but we think that this is the story
>>> behind what we'll advise people for migrating:
>>> - If you're on Joomla 2.5, stay on Joomla 2.5 until Joomla 3.5 comes out,
>>> and migrate then.
>>> - If you're building a new site, build in 2.5 for stability (and migrate
>>> to 3.5 when it's ready) or build in 3.x for the cutting-edge features. Be
>>> sure to keep up with updates if you take this path (3.0, 3.1, 3.5).
>>> Note that this marketing message assumes much on the development end. So
>>> the next question is whether our assumptions are true, and whether the
>>> development vision is coinciding with the marketing message.
>>> a. There is an easy migration path (hopefully "one click") from Joomla
>>> 2.5 to Joomla 3.5.
>>> b. If I'm running a Joomla 2.5 site, I'm getting notifications about
>>> Joomla 2.5 updates. Hopefully I'm not even seeing notifications about Joomla
>>> 3.x updates until Joomla 3.5.0 is released.
>>> What we'd like to avoid as a community is this (think about clients for
>>> the most part):
>>> - My Joomla 2.5 site tells me 3.0 is available. I click the one click
>>> update. The interface is radically different, and my extensions break.
>>> Surprise!
>>> - I just paid to have my 1.5 site moved to 2.5, and now 3.0 is available?
>>> Quick, move me to XYZ CMS so I don't have to deal with these crazy Joomla
>>> updates anymore!
>>> I think the best solution is that 2.5 updates are delivered via the
>>> Joomla Updater to 2.5 sites, unless an option is changed. Think going into
>>> Options and toggling a button to show the next release cycle or something
>>> similar.
> To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
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FWIW, I can add that this is a very real scenario that I experienced with a
client, and it worked out great. The only issue we had was availability of
extensions when we began.
> One typical real-life scenario could be something like this:
> 1. Company X is starting a new big site that will take some time to
> develop and get going. They choose version 3.0 figuring that it will
> actually be 3.1 or maybe even 3.5 by they time the site is deployed.
> They want to be on a current version when the site is deployed, or
> maybe they need some 3.x functionality.
> 2. Once 3.5 is available, they upgrade to that and then stay on the
> LTS version going forward, since they are happy with the functionality
> they have.
> 3. They upgrade from 3.5 to 4.5, 4.5 to 5.5, etc.
> Mark
> On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 6:26 AM, Beat <beat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > A picture being worth 1000 words, probably a release-cycles pictures like
> > the one used by Ubuntu here will certainly help people understand the
> > meanings of STS and LTS:
> > Typically, for productive web-servers, you do not use STS, as most
> hosting
> > panel software don't support them, and you don't want to upgrade too
> often
> > your fine-running security-maintained LTS-based server.
> > On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:05:07 PM UTC+2, Steve wrote:
> >> Thanks for your feedback everyone.
> >> We'll have a go at creating some materials that say something like this:
> >> Joomla 2.5 is the LTS and the recommended version for people wanting a
> lot
> >> of extensions, templates etc.
> >> Joomla 3 is the STS. It's a great version but perhaps best suited for
> >> developers and / or people wanting new, more straightforward sites.
> >> We'll make sure to distribute this materials before launch, particularly
> >> to the dev team, to make sure they're happy with the message.
> >> We can then reassess after launch. When the upgrade / migration is
> >> confirmed to be smooth, we can start to encourage people to upgrade,
> whether
> >> that happens at 3.0.1 or 3.1 or 3.5.
> >> On Monday, July 9, 2012 9:28:18 AM UTC-4, Jen Kramer wrote:
> >>> Hello all--
> >>> The marketing group has been discussing the Joomla 3 rollout, but we
> are
> >>> realizing we need information about the plans about the updater.
> >>> We are still working on the message, but we think that this is the
> story
> >>> behind what we'll advise people for migrating:
> >>> - If you're on Joomla 2.5, stay on Joomla 2.5 until Joomla 3.5 comes
> out,
> >>> and migrate then.
> >>> - If you're building a new site, build in 2.5 for stability (and
> migrate
> >>> to 3.5 when it's ready) or build in 3.x for the cutting-edge features.
> Be
> >>> sure to keep up with updates if you take this path (3.0, 3.1, 3.5).
> >>> Note that this marketing message assumes much on the development end.
> So
> >>> the next question is whether our assumptions are true, and whether the
> >>> development vision is coinciding with the marketing message.
> >>> a. There is an easy migration path (hopefully "one click") from Joomla
> >>> 2.5 to Joomla 3.5.
> >>> b. If I'm running a Joomla 2.5 site, I'm getting notifications about
> >>> Joomla 2.5 updates. Hopefully I'm not even seeing notifications about
> Joomla
> >>> 3.x updates until Joomla 3.5.0 is released.
> >>> What we'd like to avoid as a community is this (think about clients for
> >>> the most part):
> >>> - My Joomla 2.5 site tells me 3.0 is available. I click the one click
> >>> update. The interface is radically different, and my extensions break.
> >>> Surprise!
> >>> - I just paid to have my 1.5 site moved to 2.5, and now 3.0 is
> available?
> >>> Quick, move me to XYZ CMS so I don't have to deal with these crazy
> Joomla
> >>> updates anymore!
> >>> I think the best solution is that 2.5 updates are delivered via the
> >>> Joomla Updater to 2.5 sites, unless an option is changed. Think going
> into
> >>> Options and toggling a button to show the next release cycle or
> something
> >>> similar.
> > To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Joomla! CMS Development" group.
> To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
If you are only using the Joomla core it will be an upgrade.
The fact is that Bootstrap and the new core outputs are going to break many templates plus any extensions that have not done the search and replace to change the class names they extend from as needed or that use JParameter or anything else like that will not work. So yes if you have only used extensions and templates that rigorously follow the recommended practice of testing the active trunk weekly, not using deprecated code, following the development list for information on how to maintain compatibility between 2.5 and 3.0 and *follow that advice*, and as recommended here working with Kyle's branch it is going to be a migration. *And even some extensions that do follow all that advice will inevitably get blind sided by something.* As a webmaster you will have to assess the extensions you use and make the decision on when to upgrade based on that. If your extensions are not upgraded you have to wait or switch to different extensions. Personally if an extension has reasonable development activity even if they are not ready on the release date I would give them a month or so even if it was extremely important to me to update to 3.0 because the pain of switching extensions is a lot worse than that of waiting a month or two. That's my plan for my sites, but obviously everyone has their own decisions to make.
On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 4:42:33 AM UTC-4, Beat wrote:
> On Jul 10, 1:32 pm, elin <elin.war...@gmail.com> wrote: > > 3.0 is not bleeding edge and thre is already a system in place to show > lts > > updates ... since going to 3.0 is technically not an update but a > migration > > it is not going to send update notices.
> I thought that at JAB12 session of updater workgroup, it was agreed > that 3.0 should/would be an update using the built-in updater > (selecting the STS updates path in settings instead the default LTS > updates path) and not a migration.
That simply means that Joomla core and extensions developers should communicate more on what's needed to make this a as smooth as possible upgrade !
Extension developers should have the possibility to have an extension update that runs on 2.5 AND 3.0 BEFORE joomla 3.0 stable is released. At least the major extensions developers.
Right now, 3.0 is a moving target for extension developers. Branches change, a lot of things still change and are broken. Thus, 3.0 is not usable as a reference platform to develop and troubleshoot bugs in their extension.
Once 3.0 has reached beta stage (and stabilizes), it will be time to start testing.
Also in preparatory work: we need to make it possible for an extension to run on 2.5.latest AND 3.0 by bakwards or forward compatibilities. Otherwise having the core being an upgrade and extensions planed as migrations will be a nightmare for webmasters (at least for the 90+% which are not a bit savy in doing their due diligence before applying upgrades).
Maybe there is a chance to make it happen this time ?
Suggested path: 1) Review compatibility strategy of API, templates and HTML outputs and fix what needs to be fixed to make it smoother 2) When the time for testing comes, just create a forum, email all popular registered JED developers to invite them to a special testing group. Continue informing by email all JED developers as 3.0 RC maturity comes. 3) plan enough time in beta and RC (way too short in past) 4) Listen to feedbacks from extension developers and apply good suggestions
On Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:36:27 AM UTC+2, elin wrote:
> Beat,
> If you are only using the Joomla core it will be an upgrade.
> The fact is that Bootstrap and the new core outputs are going to break > many templates plus any extensions that have not done the search and > replace to change the class names they extend from as needed or that use > JParameter or anything else like that will not work. So yes if you have > only used extensions and templates that rigorously follow the recommended > practice of testing the active trunk weekly, not using deprecated code, > following the development list for information on how to > maintain compatibility between 2.5 and 3.0 and *follow that advice*, and > as recommended here working with Kyle's branch it is going to be a > migration. *And even some extensions that do follow all that advice will > inevitably get blind sided by something.* > As a webmaster you will have to assess the extensions you use and make > the decision on when to upgrade based on that. If your extensions are not > upgraded you have to wait or switch to different extensions. Personally if > an extension has reasonable development activity even if they are not ready > on the release date I would give them a month or so even if it was > extremely important to me to update to 3.0 because the pain of switching > extensions is a lot worse than that of waiting a month or two. That's my > plan for my sites, but obviously everyone has their own decisions to make.
> Elin
> On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 4:42:33 AM UTC-4, Beat wrote:
>> On Jul 10, 1:32 pm, elin <elin.war...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > 3.0 is not bleeding edge and thre is already a system in place to show >> lts >> > updates ... since going to 3.0 is technically not an update but a >> migration >> > it is not going to send update notices.
>> I thought that at JAB12 session of updater workgroup, it was agreed >> that 3.0 should/would be an update using the built-in updater >> (selecting the STS updates path in settings instead the default LTS >> updates path) and not a migration.
Beat - If the discussion started to focus on improving cooperation and information sharing with extension developers, then it would detract from the discussion on formulating a marketing message for 3.0 and differentiating target audiences for the two release cycles. Might be best to start a new thread so that this discussion can stay on topic.
Thank you Amy, but I didn't notice that this was only about Joomla upgrade/migration. And if you don't care about extensions in such an upgrade marketing text, I do understand that it is your point of view, and I respect it as such, but peacefully agree to disagree with you. :-)
I still think that when speaking ("marketingwise") about upgrade/migration of Joomla, special attention needs to be given to extensions and to its Community of webmasters of which a good part have also extensions installed.
And that certainly also implies a bit of code: E.g. checking in the auto-updater XML files of installed components IF a given Joomla release is supported BEFORE offering to upgrade Joomla itself, and thus breaking the site. At very least a warning message about components needing upgrade too (and its availability) should be displayed imho.
Regarding the important cooperation discussion you mentioned, I have already mentioned a way to start separately such a discussion, but I think that it's really the task of the Joomla PLT to do so. I have started such a discussion session at JAB12, there are a dozen persons who offered to help PLT in this regard and gave their contacts, and we are looking forward to the PLT's replies on this discussion. Definitely not the subject of this thread, fully agreed on that part (and end of discussion on that part in this thread).
On Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:56:05 PM UTC+2, Amy Stephen wrote:
> Beat - If the discussion started to focus on improving cooperation and > information sharing with extension developers, then it would detract from > the discussion on formulating a marketing message for 3.0 and > differentiating target audiences for the two release cycles. Might be best > to start a new thread so that this discussion can stay on topic.
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 7:16 AM, Beat <beat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I still think that when speaking ("marketingwise") about upgrade/migration
> of Joomla, special attention needs to be given to extensions and to its
> Community of webmasters of which a good part have also extensions installed.
> Most definitely agree.
> And that certainly also implies a bit of code: E.g. checking in the
> auto-updater XML files of installed components IF a given Joomla release is
> supported BEFORE offering to upgrade Joomla itself, and thus breaking the
> site. At very least a warning message about components needing upgrade too
> (and its availability) should be displayed imho.
That would be a nice feature, for sure. If there was something of this
nature built into the installer (and developers knew what to do to tap into
it), it certainly would be something worth noting in the marketing material
as a way to determine whether or not a user can upgrade and if their
extensions were ready. Love it.
Do you know whether or not this idea has been proposed as a feature
request? If I understand process correctly, that's the first step towards
getting something considered. Also, it always helps if code is included and
a developer stays involved and proactive with their feature requests,
responding to everyone's feedback on the tracker and sort of nudging things
along. I know you share code, so that's not a negative comment, just
encouragement. This idea has a lot of potential, for sure, and it needs a
developer to champion it.
> Regarding the important cooperation discussion you mentioned, I have
> already mentioned a way to start separately such a discussion, but I think
> that it's really the task of the Joomla PLT to do so. I have started such a
> discussion session at JAB12, there are a dozen persons who offered to help
> PLT in this regard and gave their contacts, and we are looking forward to
> the PLT's replies on this discussion. Definitely not the subject of this
> thread, fully agreed on that part (and end of discussion on that part in
> this thread).
Thanks Beat. Probably doesn't matter who kicks the discussion off, but I'll
leave that to you. Much benefit to working in this area, rebuilding
involvement, etc., look forward to seeing that move forward too.
> On Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:56:05 PM UTC+2, Amy Stephen wrote:
>> Beat - If the discussion started to focus on improving cooperation and
>> information sharing with extension developers, then it would detract from
>> the discussion on formulating a marketing message for 3.0 and
>> differentiating target audiences for the two release cycles. Might be best
>> to start a new thread so that this discussion can stay on topic.
> To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
3.0.0_Alpha1 will hopefully and likely be released today. If not, it will
be released very soon.
Alpha1 will contain only the new platform version 12.2 but not new
features. This release is targeted to third-party extension developers to
test their extensions with the new 12.2 platform.
Also, with the release of Alpha1 there will also be an announcement for
developers concerning:
1) Tentative Schedule for Joomla 3
2) What Developers Need to Know About Joomla 3
3) Ways to Contribute
Furthermore, you can join the new JTesters (
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/jtesters ) group, which is a group
for announcing Joomla test packages, release dates, and other relevant
information regarding testing pre-releases.
Hopefully all these things (as well as other up-coming activities) will
contribute to making Joomla 3 a major success for everyone! The PLT, in
collaboration with some volunteers to do *some* of the grunt work (me
being one of those grunts), is working hard on ways to get the development
community more involved and up-to-date on the late happenings with Joomla
3.
> That simply means that Joomla core and extensions developers should
> communicate more on what's needed to make this a as smooth as possible
> upgrade !
> Extension developers should have the possibility to have an extension
> update that runs on 2.5 AND 3.0 BEFORE joomla 3.0 stable is released. At
> least the major extensions developers.
> Right now, 3.0 is a moving target for extension developers. Branches
> change, a lot of things still change and are broken. Thus, 3.0 is not
> usable as a reference platform to develop and troubleshoot bugs in their
> extension.
> Once 3.0 has reached beta stage (and stabilizes), it will be time to start
> testing.
> Also in preparatory work: we need to make it possible for an extension to
> run on 2.5.latest AND 3.0 by bakwards or forward compatibilities.
> Otherwise
> having the core being an upgrade and extensions planed as migrations will
> be a nightmare for webmasters (at least for the 90+% which are not a bit
> savy in doing their due diligence before applying upgrades).
> Maybe there is a chance to make it happen this time ?
> Suggested path:
> 1) Review compatibility strategy of API, templates and HTML outputs and
> fix
> what needs to be fixed to make it smoother
> 2) When the time for testing comes, just create a forum, email all popular
> registered JED developers to invite them to a special testing group.
> Continue informing by email all JED developers as 3.0 RC maturity comes.
> 3) plan enough time in beta and RC (way too short in past)
> 4) Listen to feedbacks from extension developers and apply good
> suggestions
> On Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:36:27 AM UTC+2, elin wrote:
>> Beat,
>> If you are only using the Joomla core it will be an upgrade.
>> The fact is that Bootstrap and the new core outputs are going to break
>> many templates plus any extensions that have not done the search and
>> replace to change the class names they extend from as needed or that use
>> JParameter or anything else like that will not work. So yes if you have
>> only used extensions and templates that rigorously follow the
>> recommended
>> practice of testing the active trunk weekly, not using deprecated code,
>> following the development list for information on how to
>> maintain compatibility between 2.5 and 3.0 and *follow that advice*,
>> and
>> as recommended here working with Kyle's branch it is going to be a
>> migration. *And even some extensions that do follow all that advice will
>> inevitably get blind sided by something.*
>> As a webmaster you will have to assess the extensions you use and make
>> the decision on when to upgrade based on that. If your extensions are
>> not
>> upgraded you have to wait or switch to different extensions. Personally
>> if
>> an extension has reasonable development activity even if they are not
>> ready
>> on the release date I would give them a month or so even if it was
>> extremely important to me to update to 3.0 because the pain of switching
>> extensions is a lot worse than that of waiting a month or two. That's my
>> plan for my sites, but obviously everyone has their own decisions to
>> make.
>> Elin
>> On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 4:42:33 AM UTC-4, Beat wrote:
>>> On Jul 10, 1:32 pm, elin <elin.war...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > 3.0 is not bleeding edge and thre is already a system in place to
>>> show
>>> lts
>>> > updates ... since going to 3.0 is technically not an update but a
>>> migration
>>> > it is not going to send update notices.
>>> I thought that at JAB12 session of updater workgroup, it was agreed
>>> that 3.0 should/would be an update using the built-in updater
>>> (selecting the STS updates path in settings instead the default LTS
>>> updates path) and not a migration.
> --
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On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Nick Savov <n...@iowawebcompany.com> wrote:
> Hi Beat,
> 3.0.0_Alpha1 will hopefully and likely be released today. If not, it will
> be released very soon.
> Alpha1 will contain only the new platform version 12.2 but not new
> features. This release is targeted to third-party extension developers to
> test their extensions with the new 12.2 platform.
> Also, with the release of Alpha1 there will also be an announcement for
> developers concerning:
> 1) Tentative Schedule for Joomla 3
> 2) What Developers Need to Know About Joomla 3
> 3) Ways to Contribute
> Furthermore, you can join the new JTesters (
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/jtesters ) group, which is a group
> for announcing Joomla test packages, release dates, and other relevant
> information regarding testing pre-releases.
> Hopefully all these things (as well as other up-coming activities) will
> contribute to making Joomla 3 a major success for everyone! The PLT, in
> collaboration with some volunteers to do *some* of the grunt work (me
> being one of those grunts), is working hard on ways to get the development
> community more involved and up-to-date on the late happenings with Joomla
> 3.
> Hope this helps! :)
> Kind regards,
> Nick
> > Elin,
> > That simply means that Joomla core and extensions developers should
> > communicate more on what's needed to make this a as smooth as possible
> > upgrade !
> > Extension developers should have the possibility to have an extension
> > update that runs on 2.5 AND 3.0 BEFORE joomla 3.0 stable is released. At
> > least the major extensions developers.
> > Right now, 3.0 is a moving target for extension developers. Branches
> > change, a lot of things still change and are broken. Thus, 3.0 is not
> > usable as a reference platform to develop and troubleshoot bugs in their
> > extension.
> > Once 3.0 has reached beta stage (and stabilizes), it will be time to
> start
> > testing.
> > Also in preparatory work: we need to make it possible for an extension to
> > run on 2.5.latest AND 3.0 by bakwards or forward compatibilities.
> > Otherwise
> > having the core being an upgrade and extensions planed as migrations will
> > be a nightmare for webmasters (at least for the 90+% which are not a bit
> > savy in doing their due diligence before applying upgrades).
> > Maybe there is a chance to make it happen this time ?
> > Suggested path:
> > 1) Review compatibility strategy of API, templates and HTML outputs and
> > fix
> > what needs to be fixed to make it smoother
> > 2) When the time for testing comes, just create a forum, email all
> popular
> > registered JED developers to invite them to a special testing group.
> > Continue informing by email all JED developers as 3.0 RC maturity comes.
> > 3) plan enough time in beta and RC (way too short in past)
> > 4) Listen to feedbacks from extension developers and apply good
> > suggestions
> > On Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:36:27 AM UTC+2, elin wrote:
> >> Beat,
> >> If you are only using the Joomla core it will be an upgrade.
> >> The fact is that Bootstrap and the new core outputs are going to break
> >> many templates plus any extensions that have not done the search and
> >> replace to change the class names they extend from as needed or that use
> >> JParameter or anything else like that will not work. So yes if you have
> >> only used extensions and templates that rigorously follow the
> >> recommended
> >> practice of testing the active trunk weekly, not using deprecated code,
> >> following the development list for information on how to
> >> maintain compatibility between 2.5 and 3.0 and *follow that advice*,
> >> and
> >> as recommended here working with Kyle's branch it is going to be a
> >> migration. *And even some extensions that do follow all that advice will
> >> inevitably get blind sided by something.*
> >> As a webmaster you will have to assess the extensions you use and make
> >> the decision on when to upgrade based on that. If your extensions are
> >> not
> >> upgraded you have to wait or switch to different extensions. Personally
> >> if
> >> an extension has reasonable development activity even if they are not
> >> ready
> >> on the release date I would give them a month or so even if it was
> >> extremely important to me to update to 3.0 because the pain of switching
> >> extensions is a lot worse than that of waiting a month or two. That's my
> >> plan for my sites, but obviously everyone has their own decisions to
> >> make.
> >> Elin
> >> On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 4:42:33 AM UTC-4, Beat wrote:
> >>> On Jul 10, 1:32 pm, elin <elin.war...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> > 3.0 is not bleeding edge and thre is already a system in place to
> >>> show
> >>> lts
> >>> > updates ... since going to 3.0 is technically not an update but a
> >>> migration
> >>> > it is not going to send update notices.
> >>> I thought that at JAB12 session of updater workgroup, it was agreed
> >>> that 3.0 should/would be an update using the built-in updater
> >>> (selecting the STS updates path in settings instead the default LTS
> >>> updates path) and not a migration.
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Joomla! CMS Development" group.
> > To view this discussion on the web, visit
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/joomla-dev-cms/-/8S9gN_cbvDMJ.
> > To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Joomla! CMS Development" group.
> To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
You're welcome! It's definitely been a team effort, though, with
contributions from many people in the community. I'm extremely impressed
with how many people (both leadership and nonleadership) are eager and
willing to help out.
For example, the upcoming developer announcement was created on a Google
Doc with collaboration from probably over 30 people whether that be
writing, editing, proofreading, etc. :)
Those types of activities make it fun being a part of the Joomla community
and helping out in Joomla! :)
By the way, if anyone wants to help out with developer outreach or testing
outreach, please email me privately and I'll get you hooked up.
> Nick +1,000,000 - been really impressed with your "grunt" work. Thanks
> much.
> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Nick Savov <n...@iowawebcompany.com>
> wrote:
>> Hi Beat,
>> 3.0.0_Alpha1 will hopefully and likely be released today. If not, it
>> will
>> be released very soon.
>> Alpha1 will contain only the new platform version 12.2 but not new
>> features. This release is targeted to third-party extension developers
>> to
>> test their extensions with the new 12.2 platform.
>> Also, with the release of Alpha1 there will also be an announcement for
>> developers concerning:
>> 1) Tentative Schedule for Joomla 3
>> 2) What Developers Need to Know About Joomla 3
>> 3) Ways to Contribute
>> Furthermore, you can join the new JTesters (
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/jtesters ) group, which is a
>> group
>> for announcing Joomla test packages, release dates, and other relevant
>> information regarding testing pre-releases.
>> Hopefully all these things (as well as other up-coming activities) will
>> contribute to making Joomla 3 a major success for everyone! The PLT, in
>> collaboration with some volunteers to do *some* of the grunt work (me
>> being one of those grunts), is working hard on ways to get the
>> development
>> community more involved and up-to-date on the late happenings with
>> Joomla
>> 3.
>> Hope this helps! :)
>> Kind regards,
>> Nick
>> > Elin,
>> > That simply means that Joomla core and extensions developers should
>> > communicate more on what's needed to make this a as smooth as possible
>> > upgrade !
>> > Extension developers should have the possibility to have an extension
>> > update that runs on 2.5 AND 3.0 BEFORE joomla 3.0 stable is released.
>> At
>> > least the major extensions developers.
>> > Right now, 3.0 is a moving target for extension developers. Branches
>> > change, a lot of things still change and are broken. Thus, 3.0 is not
>> > usable as a reference platform to develop and troubleshoot bugs in
>> their
>> > extension.
>> > Once 3.0 has reached beta stage (and stabilizes), it will be time to
>> start
>> > testing.
>> > Also in preparatory work: we need to make it possible for an extension
>> to
>> > run on 2.5.latest AND 3.0 by bakwards or forward compatibilities.
>> > Otherwise
>> > having the core being an upgrade and extensions planed as migrations
>> will
>> > be a nightmare for webmasters (at least for the 90+% which are not a
>> bit
>> > savy in doing their due diligence before applying upgrades).
>> > Maybe there is a chance to make it happen this time ?
>> > Suggested path:
>> > 1) Review compatibility strategy of API, templates and HTML outputs
>> and
>> > fix
>> > what needs to be fixed to make it smoother
>> > 2) When the time for testing comes, just create a forum, email all
>> popular
>> > registered JED developers to invite them to a special testing group.
>> > Continue informing by email all JED developers as 3.0 RC maturity
>> comes.
>> > 3) plan enough time in beta and RC (way too short in past)
>> > 4) Listen to feedbacks from extension developers and apply good
>> > suggestions
>> > On Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:36:27 AM UTC+2, elin wrote:
>> >> Beat,
>> >> If you are only using the Joomla core it will be an upgrade.
>> >> The fact is that Bootstrap and the new core outputs are going to
>> break
>> >> many templates plus any extensions that have not done the search and
>> >> replace to change the class names they extend from as needed or that
>> use
>> >> JParameter or anything else like that will not work. So yes if you
>> have
>> >> only used extensions and templates that rigorously follow the
>> >> recommended
>> >> practice of testing the active trunk weekly, not using deprecated
>> code,
>> >> following the development list for information on how to
>> >> maintain compatibility between 2.5 and 3.0 and *follow that advice*,
>> >> and
>> >> as recommended here working with Kyle's branch it is going to be a
>> >> migration. *And even some extensions that do follow all that advice
>> will
>> >> inevitably get blind sided by something.*
>> >> As a webmaster you will have to assess the extensions you use and
>> make
>> >> the decision on when to upgrade based on that. If your extensions are
>> >> not
>> >> upgraded you have to wait or switch to different extensions.
>> Personally
>> >> if
>> >> an extension has reasonable development activity even if they are not
>> >> ready
>> >> on the release date I would give them a month or so even if it was
>> >> extremely important to me to update to 3.0 because the pain of
>> switching
>> >> extensions is a lot worse than that of waiting a month or two. That's
>> my
>> >> plan for my sites, but obviously everyone has their own decisions to
>> >> make.
>> >> Elin
>> >> On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 4:42:33 AM UTC-4, Beat wrote:
>> >>> On Jul 10, 1:32 pm, elin <elin.war...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> > 3.0 is not bleeding edge and thre is already a system in place to
>> >>> show
>> >>> lts
>> >>> > updates ... since going to 3.0 is technically not an update but a
>> >>> migration
>> >>> > it is not going to send update notices.
>> >>> I thought that at JAB12 session of updater workgroup, it was agreed
>> >>> that 3.0 should/would be an update using the built-in updater
>> >>> (selecting the STS updates path in settings instead the default LTS
>> >>> updates path) and not a migration.
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups
>> > "Joomla! CMS Development" group.
>> > To view this discussion on the web, visit
>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/joomla-dev-cms/-/8S9gN_cbvDMJ.
>> > To post to this group, send an email to
>> joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups
>> "Joomla! CMS Development" group.
>> To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Joomla! CMS Development" group.
> To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
Thanks for organizing the work and the heads-up. Joined the other
google group.
You should contact Andrea also, she has around a dozen business cards
of people eager to contribute to the testing/bugs/squad/tracker/
cooperation process that were in the JAB12 discussion (recorded here
http://jandbeyond.org/programme/sessions/session/session/96-should-i-... ) . Maybe she could email all of those persons with cc to you to get
this started ?
Let's continue the discussion in the other group when it's up :-)
Best Regards,
Beat
On 12 July, 15:35, "Nick Savov" <n...@iowawebcompany.com> wrote:
> You're welcome! It's definitely been a team effort, though, with
> contributions from many people in the community. I'm extremely impressed
> with how many people (both leadership and nonleadership) are eager and
> willing to help out.
> For example, the upcoming developer announcement was created on a Google
> Doc with collaboration from probably over 30 people whether that be
> writing, editing, proofreading, etc. :)
> Those types of activities make it fun being a part of the Joomla community
> and helping out in Joomla! :)
> By the way, if anyone wants to help out with developer outreach or testing
> outreach, please email me privately and I'll get you hooked up.
> Kind regards,
> Nick
> > Nick +1,000,000 - been really impressed with your "grunt" work. Thanks
> > much.
> > On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Nick Savov <n...@iowawebcompany.com>
> > wrote:
> >> Hi Beat,
> >> 3.0.0_Alpha1 will hopefully and likely be released today. If not, it
> >> will
> >> be released very soon.
> >> Alpha1 will contain only the new platform version 12.2 but not new
> >> features. This release is targeted to third-party extension developers
> >> to
> >> test their extensions with the new 12.2 platform.
> >> Also, with the release of Alpha1 there will also be an announcement for
> >> developers concerning:
> >> 1) Tentative Schedule for Joomla 3
> >> 2) What Developers Need to Know About Joomla 3
> >> 3) Ways to Contribute
> >> Furthermore, you can join the new JTesters (
> >>https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/jtesters) group, which is a
> >> group
> >> for announcing Joomla test packages, release dates, and other relevant
> >> information regarding testing pre-releases.
> >> Hopefully all these things (as well as other up-coming activities) will
> >> contribute to making Joomla 3 a major success for everyone! The PLT, in
> >> collaboration with some volunteers to do *some* of the grunt work (me
> >> being one of those grunts), is working hard on ways to get the
> >> development
> >> community more involved and up-to-date on the late happenings with
> >> Joomla
> >> 3.
> >> Hope this helps! :)
> >> Kind regards,
> >> Nick
> >> > Elin,
> >> > That simply means that Joomla core and extensions developers should
> >> > communicate more on what's needed to make this a as smooth as possible
> >> > upgrade !
> >> > Extension developers should have the possibility to have an extension
> >> > update that runs on 2.5 AND 3.0 BEFORE joomla 3.0 stable is released.
> >> At
> >> > least the major extensions developers.
> >> > Right now, 3.0 is a moving target for extension developers. Branches
> >> > change, a lot of things still change and are broken. Thus, 3.0 is not
> >> > usable as a reference platform to develop and troubleshoot bugs in
> >> their
> >> > extension.
> >> > Once 3.0 has reached beta stage (and stabilizes), it will be time to
> >> start
> >> > testing.
> >> > Also in preparatory work: we need to make it possible for an extension
> >> to
> >> > run on 2.5.latest AND 3.0 by bakwards or forward compatibilities.
> >> > Otherwise
> >> > having the core being an upgrade and extensions planed as migrations
> >> will
> >> > be a nightmare for webmasters (at least for the 90+% which are not a
> >> bit
> >> > savy in doing their due diligence before applying upgrades).
> >> > Maybe there is a chance to make it happen this time ?
> >> > Suggested path:
> >> > 1) Review compatibility strategy of API, templates and HTML outputs
> >> and
> >> > fix
> >> > what needs to be fixed to make it smoother
> >> > 2) When the time for testing comes, just create a forum, email all
> >> popular
> >> > registered JED developers to invite them to a special testing group.
> >> > Continue informing by email all JED developers as 3.0 RC maturity
> >> comes.
> >> > 3) plan enough time in beta and RC (way too short in past)
> >> > 4) Listen to feedbacks from extension developers and apply good
> >> > suggestions
> >> > On Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:36:27 AM UTC+2, elin wrote:
> >> >> Beat,
> >> >> If you are only using the Joomla core it will be an upgrade.
> >> >> The fact is that Bootstrap and the new core outputs are going to
> >> break
> >> >> many templates plus any extensions that have not done the search and
> >> >> replace to change the class names they extend from as needed or that
> >> use
> >> >> JParameter or anything else like that will not work. So yes if you
> >> have
> >> >> only used extensions and templates that rigorously follow the
> >> >> recommended
> >> >> practice of testing the active trunk weekly, not using deprecated
> >> code,
> >> >> following the development list for information on how to
> >> >> maintain compatibility between 2.5 and 3.0 and *follow that advice*,
> >> >> and
> >> >> as recommended here working with Kyle's branch it is going to be a
> >> >> migration. *And even some extensions that do follow all that advice
> >> will
> >> >> inevitably get blind sided by something.*
> >> >> As a webmaster you will have to assess the extensions you use and
> >> make
> >> >> the decision on when to upgrade based on that. If your extensions are
> >> >> not
> >> >> upgraded you have to wait or switch to different extensions.
> >> Personally
> >> >> if
> >> >> an extension has reasonable development activity even if they are not
> >> >> ready
> >> >> on the release date I would give them a month or so even if it was
> >> >> extremely important to me to update to 3.0 because the pain of
> >> switching
> >> >> extensions is a lot worse than that of waiting a month or two. That's
> >> my
> >> >> plan for my sites, but obviously everyone has their own decisions to
> >> >> make.
> >> >> Elin
> >> >> On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 4:42:33 AM UTC-4, Beat wrote:
> >> >>> On Jul 10, 1:32 pm, elin <elin.war...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>> > 3.0 is not bleeding edge and thre is already a system in place to
> >> >>> show
> >> >>> lts
> >> >>> > updates ... since going to 3.0 is technically not an update but a
> >> >>> migration
> >> >>> > it is not going to send update notices.
> >> >>> I thought that at JAB12 session of updater workgroup, it was agreed
> >> >>> that 3.0 should/would be an update using the built-in updater
> >> >>> (selecting the STS updates path in settings instead the default LTS
> >> >>> updates path) and not a migration.
> >> > --
> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >> Groups
> >> > "Joomla! CMS Development" group.
> >> > To view this discussion on the web, visit
> >> >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/joomla-dev-cms/-/8S9gN_cbvDMJ.
> >> > To post to this group, send an email to
> >> joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com.
> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> > joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> >> > For more options, visit this group at
> >> >http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >> Groups
> >> "Joomla! CMS Development" group.
> >> To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Joomla! CMS Development" group.
> > To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
I didn't forget you guys! I passed on all the email addresses to Nick last month. But I'll double check that he got them and that we email those people about the announcement directly.
> Thanks for organizing the work and the heads-up. Joined the other
> google group.
> You should contact Andrea also, she has around a dozen business cards
> of people eager to contribute to the testing/bugs/squad/tracker/
> cooperation process that were in the JAB12 discussion (recorded here
> http://jandbeyond.org/programme/sessions/session/session/96-should-i-... > ) . Maybe she could email all of those persons with cc to you to get
> this started ?
> Let's continue the discussion in the other group when it's up :-)
> Best Regards,
> Beat
> On 12 July, 15:35, "Nick Savov" <n...@iowawebcompany.com> wrote:
>> You're welcome! It's definitely been a team effort, though, with
>> contributions from many people in the community. I'm extremely impressed
>> with how many people (both leadership and nonleadership) are eager and
>> willing to help out.
>> For example, the upcoming developer announcement was created on a Google
>> Doc with collaboration from probably over 30 people whether that be
>> writing, editing, proofreading, etc. :)
>> Those types of activities make it fun being a part of the Joomla community
>> and helping out in Joomla! :)
>> By the way, if anyone wants to help out with developer outreach or testing
>> outreach, please email me privately and I'll get you hooked up.
>> Kind regards,
>> Nick
>>> Nick +1,000,000 - been really impressed with your "grunt" work. Thanks
>>> much.
>>> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Nick Savov <n...@iowawebcompany.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Hi Beat,
>>>> 3.0.0_Alpha1 will hopefully and likely be released today. If not, it
>>>> will
>>>> be released very soon.
>>>> Alpha1 will contain only the new platform version 12.2 but not new
>>>> features. This release is targeted to third-party extension developers
>>>> to
>>>> test their extensions with the new 12.2 platform.
>>>> Also, with the release of Alpha1 there will also be an announcement for
>>>> developers concerning:
>>>> 1) Tentative Schedule for Joomla 3
>>>> 2) What Developers Need to Know About Joomla 3
>>>> 3) Ways to Contribute
>>>> Furthermore, you can join the new JTesters (
>>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/jtesters) group, which is a
>>>> group
>>>> for announcing Joomla test packages, release dates, and other relevant
>>>> information regarding testing pre-releases.
>>>> Hopefully all these things (as well as other up-coming activities) will
>>>> contribute to making Joomla 3 a major success for everyone! The PLT, in
>>>> collaboration with some volunteers to do *some* of the grunt work (me
>>>> being one of those grunts), is working hard on ways to get the
>>>> development
>>>> community more involved and up-to-date on the late happenings with
>>>> Joomla
>>>> 3.
>>>> Hope this helps! :)
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>> Nick
>>>>> Elin,
>>>>> That simply means that Joomla core and extensions developers should
>>>>> communicate more on what's needed to make this a as smooth as possible
>>>>> upgrade !
>>>>> Extension developers should have the possibility to have an extension
>>>>> update that runs on 2.5 AND 3.0 BEFORE joomla 3.0 stable is released.
>>>> At
>>>>> least the major extensions developers.
>>>>> Right now, 3.0 is a moving target for extension developers. Branches
>>>>> change, a lot of things still change and are broken. Thus, 3.0 is not
>>>>> usable as a reference platform to develop and troubleshoot bugs in
>>>> their
>>>>> extension.
>>>>> Once 3.0 has reached beta stage (and stabilizes), it will be time to
>>>> start
>>>>> testing.
>>>>> Also in preparatory work: we need to make it possible for an extension
>>>> to
>>>>> run on 2.5.latest AND 3.0 by bakwards or forward compatibilities.
>>>>> Otherwise
>>>>> having the core being an upgrade and extensions planed as migrations
>>>> will
>>>>> be a nightmare for webmasters (at least for the 90+% which are not a
>>>> bit
>>>>> savy in doing their due diligence before applying upgrades).
>>>>> Maybe there is a chance to make it happen this time ?
>>>>> Suggested path:
>>>>> 1) Review compatibility strategy of API, templates and HTML outputs
>>>> and
>>>>> fix
>>>>> what needs to be fixed to make it smoother
>>>>> 2) When the time for testing comes, just create a forum, email all
>>>> popular
>>>>> registered JED developers to invite them to a special testing group.
>>>>> Continue informing by email all JED developers as 3.0 RC maturity
>>>> comes.
>>>>> 3) plan enough time in beta and RC (way too short in past)
>>>>> 4) Listen to feedbacks from extension developers and apply good
>>>>> suggestions
>>>>> On Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:36:27 AM UTC+2, elin wrote:
>>>>>> Beat,
>>>>>> If you are only using the Joomla core it will be an upgrade.
>>>>>> The fact is that Bootstrap and the new core outputs are going to
>>>> break
>>>>>> many templates plus any extensions that have not done the search and
>>>>>> replace to change the class names they extend from as needed or that
>>>> use
>>>>>> JParameter or anything else like that will not work. So yes if you
>>>> have
>>>>>> only used extensions and templates that rigorously follow the
>>>>>> recommended
>>>>>> practice of testing the active trunk weekly, not using deprecated
>>>> code,
>>>>>> following the development list for information on how to
>>>>>> maintain compatibility between 2.5 and 3.0 and *follow that advice*,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> as recommended here working with Kyle's branch it is going to be a
>>>>>> migration. *And even some extensions that do follow all that advice
>>>> will
>>>>>> inevitably get blind sided by something.*
>>>>>> As a webmaster you will have to assess the extensions you use and
>>>> make
>>>>>> the decision on when to upgrade based on that. If your extensions are
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> upgraded you have to wait or switch to different extensions.
>>>> Personally
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> an extension has reasonable development activity even if they are not
>>>>>> ready
>>>>>> on the release date I would give them a month or so even if it was
>>>>>> extremely important to me to update to 3.0 because the pain of
>>>> switching
>>>>>> extensions is a lot worse than that of waiting a month or two. That's
>>>> my
>>>>>> plan for my sites, but obviously everyone has their own decisions to
>>>>>> make.
>>>>>> Elin
>>>>>> On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 4:42:33 AM UTC-4, Beat wrote:
>>>>>>> On Jul 10, 1:32 pm, elin <elin.war...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 3.0 is not bleeding edge and thre is already a system in place to
>>>>>>> show
>>>>>>> lts
>>>>>>>> updates ... since going to 3.0 is technically not an update but a
>>>>>>> migration
>>>>>>>> it is not going to send update notices.
>>>>>>> I thought that at JAB12 session of updater workgroup, it was agreed
>>>>>>> that 3.0 should/would be an update using the built-in updater
>>>>>>> (selecting the STS updates path in settings instead the default LTS
>>>>>>> updates path) and not a migration.
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups
>>>>> "Joomla! CMS Development" group.
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/joomla-dev-cms/-/8S9gN_cbvDMJ.
>>>>> To post to this group, send an email to
>>>> joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>>> joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>>>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups
>>>> "Joomla! CMS Development" group.
>>>> To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>> joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "Joomla! CMS Development" group.
>>> To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Joomla! CMS Development" group.
> To post to this group, send an email to joomla-dev-cms@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to joomla-dev-cms+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-cms?hl=en-GB.
> Thanks for organizing the work and the heads-up. Joined the other
> google group.
> You should contact Andrea also, she has around a dozen business cards
> of people eager to contribute to the testing/bugs/squad/tracker/
> cooperation process that were in the JAB12 discussion (recorded here
> http://jandbeyond.org/programme/sessions/session/session/96-should-i-... > ) . Maybe she could email all of those persons with cc to you to get
> this started ?
> Let's continue the discussion in the other group when it's up :-)
> Best Regards,
> Beat
> On 12 July, 15:35, "Nick Savov" <n...@iowawebcompany.com> wrote:
>> You're welcome! It's definitely been a team effort, though, with
>> contributions from many people in the community. I'm extremely impressed
>> with how many people (both leadership and nonleadership) are eager and
>> willing to help out.
>> For example, the upcoming developer announcement was created on a Google
>> Doc with collaboration from probably over 30 people whether that be
>> writing, editing, proofreading, etc. :)
>> Those types of activities make it fun being a part of the Joomla
>> community
>> and helping out in Joomla! :)
>> By the way, if anyone wants to help out with developer outreach or
>> testing
>> outreach, please email me privately and I'll get you hooked up.
>> Kind regards,
>> Nick
>> > Nick +1,000,000 - been really impressed with your "grunt" work. Thanks
>> > much.
>> > On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Nick Savov <n...@iowawebcompany.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> Hi Beat,
>> >> 3.0.0_Alpha1 will hopefully and likely be released today. If not, it
>> >> will
>> >> be released very soon.
>> >> Alpha1 will contain only the new platform version 12.2 but not new
>> >> features. This release is targeted to third-party extension
>> developers
>> >> to
>> >> test their extensions with the new 12.2 platform.
>> >> Also, with the release of Alpha1 there will also be an announcement
>> for
>> >> developers concerning:
>> >> 1) Tentative Schedule for Joomla 3
>> >> 2) What Developers Need to Know About Joomla 3
>> >> 3) Ways to Contribute
>> >> Furthermore, you can join the new JTesters (
>> >>https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/jtesters) group, which is a
>> >> group
>> >> for announcing Joomla test packages, release dates, and other
>> relevant
>> >> information regarding testing pre-releases.
>> >> Hopefully all these things (as well as other up-coming activities)
>> will
>> >> contribute to making Joomla 3 a major success for everyone! The PLT,
>> in
>> >> collaboration with some volunteers to do *some* of the grunt work (me
>> >> being one of those grunts), is working hard on ways to get the
>> >> development
>> >> community more involved and up-to-date on the late happenings with
>> >> Joomla
>> >> 3.
>> >> Hope this helps! :)
>> >> Kind regards,
>> >> Nick
>> >> > Elin,
>> >> > That simply means that Joomla core and extensions developers should
>> >> > communicate more on what's needed to make this a as smooth as
>> possible
>> >> > upgrade !
>> >> > Extension developers should have the possibility to have an
>> extension
>> >> > update that runs on 2.5 AND 3.0 BEFORE joomla 3.0 stable is
>> released.
>> >> At
>> >> > least the major extensions developers.
>> >> > Right now, 3.0 is a moving target for extension developers.
>> Branches
>> >> > change, a lot of things still change and are broken. Thus, 3.0 is
>> not
>> >> > usable as a reference platform to develop and troubleshoot bugs in
>> >> their
>> >> > extension.
>> >> > Once 3.0 has reached beta stage (and stabilizes), it will be time
>> to
>> >> start
>> >> > testing.
>> >> > Also in preparatory work: we need to make it possible for an
>> extension
>> >> to
>> >> > run on 2.5.latest AND 3.0 by bakwards or forward compatibilities.
>> >> > Otherwise
>> >> > having the core being an upgrade and extensions planed as
>> migrations
>> >> will
>> >> > be a nightmare for webmasters (at least for the 90+% which are not
>> a
>> >> bit
>> >> > savy in doing their due diligence before applying upgrades).
>> >> > Maybe there is a chance to make it happen this time ?
>> >> > Suggested path:
>> >> > 1) Review compatibility strategy of API, templates and HTML outputs
>> >> and
>> >> > fix
>> >> > what needs to be fixed to make it smoother
>> >> > 2) When the time for testing comes, just create a forum, email all
>> >> popular
>> >> > registered JED developers to invite them to a special testing
>> group.
>> >> > Continue informing by email all JED developers as 3.0 RC maturity
>> >> comes.
>> >> > 3) plan enough time in beta and RC (way too short in past)
>> >> > 4) Listen to feedbacks from extension developers and apply good
>> >> > suggestions
>> >> > On Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:36:27 AM UTC+2, elin wrote:
>> >> >> Beat,
>> >> >> If you are only using the Joomla core it will be an upgrade.
>> >> >> The fact is that Bootstrap and the new core outputs are going to
>> >> break
>> >> >> many templates plus any extensions that have not done the search
>> and
>> >> >> replace to change the class names they extend from as needed or
>> that
>> >> use
>> >> >> JParameter or anything else like that will not work. So yes if
>> you
>> >> have
>> >> >> only used extensions and templates that rigorously follow the
>> >> >> recommended
>> >> >> practice of testing the active trunk weekly, not using deprecated
>> >> code,
>> >> >> following the development list for information on how to
>> >> >> maintain compatibility between 2.5 and 3.0 and *follow that
>> advice*,
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> as recommended here working with Kyle's branch it is going to be
>> a
>> >> >> migration. *And even some extensions that do follow all that
>> advice
>> >> will
>> >> >> inevitably get blind sided by something.*
>> >> >> As a webmaster you will have to assess the extensions you use and
>> >> make
>> >> >> the decision on when to upgrade based on that. If your extensions
>> are
>> >> >> not
>> >> >> upgraded you have to wait or switch to different extensions.
>> >> Personally
>> >> >> if
>> >> >> an extension has reasonable development activity even if they are
>> not
>> >> >> ready
>> >> >> on the release date I would give them a month or so even if it was
>> >> >> extremely important to me to update to 3.0 because the pain of
>> >> switching
>> >> >> extensions is a lot worse than that of waiting a month or two.
>> That's
>> >> my
>> >> >> plan for my sites, but obviously everyone has their own decisions
>> to
>> >> >> make.
>> >> >> Elin
>> >> >> On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 4:42:33 AM UTC-4, Beat wrote:
>> >> >>> On Jul 10, 1:32 pm, elin <elin.war...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> > 3.0 is not bleeding edge and thre is already a system in place
>> to
>> >> >>> show
>> >> >>> lts
>> >> >>> > updates ... since going to 3.0 is technically not an update but
>> a
>> >> >>> migration
>> >> >>> > it is not going to send update notices.
>> >> >>> I thought that at JAB12 session of updater workgroup, it was
>> agreed
>> >> >>> that 3.0 should/would be an update using the built-in updater
>> >> >>> (selecting the STS updates path in settings instead the default
>> LTS
>> >> >>> updates path) and not a migration.
>> >> > --
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