Re: [jewish-funerals] Digest for jewish-funerals@googlegroups.com - 2 updates...

[LGP...@aol.com]

Dear Israel Man

Does  tradition play  no role  at all ?  You sign off  "Rabbi"  which is a  title  of  Smicha  and a level  of  achievement-you  well know the long  history of Smicha  and by calling your self  a  Rabbi  you are availing  yourself  of a  tradition  that  you  indicate   we  should  discard  because  an individual "feels"  like it.

If  you  are an observant  Rabbi  following Rabbanic  Judaism  you  also know that  besides  tradition there  are  some  specific  halachas that  come  into play in "kovod Hamas".

Every instance  you mention below is  because its religion  or a    custom  observed  for  centuries  by  each  group.

Have  you  been  to Varnasi   in India where an hour    after the body is  put  to  flames  the elder son  takes a  staff   and bashes  in the forehead of his parent  to release  the soul.That is  their  Kovod Hamas  and they  would be horrified    to  do otherwise  because it is their  tradition and their  religion.

I  certainly  respect them   but  we  have ours  and  if  we claim to be Jewish  and  want to part of a  Jewish  community  and we  have titles that indicate  a  degree of  knowledge  and  expertise   we  should not  discard what  has  been  our  culture and  our  religious   practices     for  centuries . We should  not  throw  down  the drain  what has  been  part of  our  etiology.

Edmund  Burke one  of the major  English Statesman and  Philosophers of the 18th  century  ferociously  defends tradition  - "Approximate  Paraphrasing  " Traditions  are the backbone  and the foundation  of  virtue, morality  and a  good  society" and a  vindication  of  a natural  society. His    writings and quotes  are as  relevant  today as  they were  200  years ago 

Sincerely

isaac

 

 

 

In a message dated 6/15/2014 10:32:30 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, i_...@rocketmail.com writes:

Shalom all,

I did not follow the thread so I respond on the last post.

As a rabbi I always advocated for a proper Jewish burial because this is what I have learnt and what I was used to. In the last few years I travelled around the world, saw and studied different cultures with their different ways to treat the departed. The common denominator is that they all do it with respect to the dead. The problem is that what is respectful in one culture looks disrespectful in the other. I've seen bodies embalmed, burnt, buried in the ground, inserted in concrete cubicles, dumped in the sea, chopped up and fed to the vultures or buried on the front lawn of the house. All this made me rethink my attitude. So I ask you: Why shouldn't we leave it to the individual to decide what will be done with his/her body? What right have we as a society to invade individual privacy and dictate about a thing that, in the long run, does not matter to us. 

Respectfully

Israel Man

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 6:15 PM, 'Ilene Rubenstein' via jewish-funerals <jewish-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Thank you for challenging my knee-jerk reaction to cremation. As important as I feel it is to educate in this area, on an individual level, it would be far more appropriate to start with your simple question: "why cremate?" which recognizes that their views on, and desire for, cremation may be as deeply held and complex as my opposition to it. Which is not to say that further dialogue might not follow, but always, we should start from a position of respect. So, thank you again for reminding me of that.

And yes - this would make for an interesting research topic.

From: Me'irah <rabbi...@gmail.com>
To: "jewish-...@googlegroups.com" <jewish-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 6, 2014 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: [jewish-funerals] Digest for jewish-...@googlegroups.com - 2 updates in 2 topics

Shalom

Laurie you raise a good point: finding out the reason behind someone's choosing cremation. 

I find that some folks decided to be cremated long ago, then learned about taharah, and decided that want that, too. I don't think we educate as well about burial as we do about taharah. 

Someone told me once they can't deal with the idea of worms eating them. Some, I think are afraid of cemeteries. I'm guessing that in a way, having an urn of "ashes" may feel like a way someone can hold on to their loved one. I have a friend whose teenage son on a bicycle was killed by an intoxicated driver. She kept his ashes by her bed for a very long time. 

Let's ask people, simply out of curiosity, "why cremation?" And see what we find out. It would make a good gamliel research project. 

Blessings rabbi Me'irah

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 6, 2014, at 4:00 AM, jewish-...@googlegroups.com wrote:

  Today's topic summary

Group: http://groups.google.com/group/jewish-funerals/topics

• Digest for jewish-...@googlegroups.com - 2 updates in 1 topic [1 Update]
• About the question of Taharah in the face of Cremation [1 Update]

 Digest for jewish-...@googlegroups.com - 2 updates in 1 topic

 About the question of Taharah in the face of Cremation

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[Israel Man]

Dear Isaac,

You are right. Tradition is important to you and to me and hopefully we shall be buried according to our tradition. But as you know, there are Jews who are reasonably observant that don't agree or do not care for this burial tradition and desire another form of disposing their bodies. I don't think that I or anyone else have the right to deny them that. We, in our Chevra Kadisha, don't have to do this but if their family see to it privately it is their own business. We can only teach but we are not God's policemen.

Israel

[LGP...@aol.com]

it cant be both

either  you  live  up to the tradition you  claim is  important   to  you or " leave it  to the individual"  as  you  write below