Re: [jewish-funerals] Digest for jewish-funerals@googlegroups.com - 2 updates in 1 topic
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Me'irah
May 30, 2014, 1:00:09 AM5/30/14
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Dear Folks,
These are tough issues, and I think it important to understand that different areas of North America have different Jewish communities. Here on the West Coast, San Francisco in particular, I think, it is quite a struggle to maintain traditions. In situations like this, I think we need to take every opportunity we can to EDUCATE…that, in part, is what Gamliel is training us for. Many people simply don’t know there is another way… and to many, the compared prices of cremation and burial make a difference.
I offered a 4 part series in my congregation about caring for the sick, taharah, burial, and the first year of mourning. It was very well received, and there has been follow up interest. So, I’m jus’ saying, to mix in with our discouragement a good dollop of education…a way to be part of the solution. But I do believe it’s much greater than we can fix. I also believe, if burial was cheaper than cremation, we would have a different situation on our hands.
On May 27, 2014, at 3:59 AM, jewish-...@googlegroups.com wrote:
Group: http://groups.google.com/group/jewish-funerals/topics
- Taharah prior to cremation? [2 Updates]
"Laurie Kurs" <bu...@usa.com> May 26 07:02AM +0200
I seem to recall that the question posed was about TAHARA....just Tahara
Therefore...all the responses reflected that inquiry. But, I do have a sense that the answers given so far probably also reflect how the answers would be regarding shmira....
Nowadays...with some people expressing untraditioanl views ... including the view of doing what one feels like, regardless of, in spite of, and contrary to what has been the traditions - is what opened this discussion in the first place.
Another meaningful, helpful and sensible tradition is hitting the dust. Nowadays it is becoming almost commonplace for people to sit shalosh......if at all.
Have we Jews really evolved to such a degree that we mourn less, grieve faster and 'bounce back" that even shalosh is often considered too inconvenient aka not necessary?
For those chevre's - like mine - that hold to traditional values, minchag and halacha..... our responses to "go with the flow" will always be, a resounding, "no". It is just not for us.
If our chevre is unwilling to do a tahara...we know the FD is free to call upon a different group - thererefore, we are relieved of doing what we think is inappropriate...
We understand that chevres all over are free to do as their policies guide them. And for that reason, we can expect quite a divergence of opinion here. Answers across the whole spectrum!!!
laurie
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2014 at 9:39 PM
From: "'Ilene Rubenstein' via jewish-funerals" <jewish-...@googlegroups.com>
To: "jewish-...@googlegroups.com" <jewish-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [jewish-funerals] Taharah prior to cremation?
I have struggled with this question for several years. As a member of a chevra kadisha, it broke my heart when my father-in-law died and the family decision was to honor his wishes and have his body cremated. I was grateful for the beautiful service he was given (in our home) and that eased my pain.
I haven't completely resolved my feelings, since I see the merits in both sides as they have been presented. However, I find it curious that the discussion seems to involve an all-or-nothing proposition that focuses exclusively on tahara with no mention of shmira. I can understand why a hevra, or some individual members, might not want to do a tahara prior to cremation, but what about at least providing comfort to the soul through shmira?
-----Original Message-----
From: jeanbermanmartens <jeanberm...@gmail.com>
To: jewish-funerals <jewish-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, May 23, 2014 4:22 pm
Subject: [jewish-funerals] Taharah prior to cremation?
I am part of a long-standing community Chevra (in Portland, ME). Recently we have received two requests for Taharah prior to cremation. Our policy subcommittee is wondering what other Chevras (those who would accept this request) do in this situation. Thanks for any input. Jean Berman (formerly Martens)
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.Kerry Swartz <kerry....@gmail.com> May 26 05:56AM -0700
We are a community Chevra Kadisha that serves anyone along the Hewish
spectrum of beliefs. We are also the Jewish funeral provider with a
hearse and everything. The local Shuls run their own cemeteries but we
provide the services and and in some cases, manpower, to complete a
Minyan, fill a grave, prepare Shiva prayers, etc. When the question of
cremation comes up, we simply don't do it or assist in the preparations
for it. We can't serve our entire community (from Lubavitch to
unaffiliated/secular) if we did. Interfaith burial isn't even on the table.
But the pressure is there and the challenge to traditional approaches
will inevitably cause some sort of change, whether it's a new group or
people go elsewhere for the more liberal options being discussed. We're
just simply guided by Halacha and tradition which makes these sorts of
discussions easy for us, likely not so for those requesting it.--
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Ilene Rubenstein
May 30, 2014, 12:04:50 PM5/30/14
to jewish-...@googlegroups.com
And that's why negotiating low cost funeral plans is so important. It is possible to negotiate rates for a traditional Jewish funeral and burial that is on par with the cost of cremation. Once the financial aspect is eliminated, the attraction of cremation often is greatly decreased.
From: Me'irah <rabbi...@gmail.com>
To: jewish-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: [jewish-funerals] Digest for jewish-...@googlegroups.com - 2 updates in 1 topic
Dear Folks,
These are tough issues, and I think it important to understand that different areas of North America have different Jewish communities.
Here on the West Coast, San Francisco in particular, I think, it is quite a struggle to maintain traditions. In situations like this, I think we need to take every opportunity we can to
EDUCATE…that, in part, is what Gamliel is training us for. Many people simply don’t know there is another way… and to many, the compared prices of cremation and burial make a difference.
I offered a 4 part series in my congregation about caring for the sick, taharah, burial, and the first year of mourning. It was very well received, and there has been follow up interest. So, I’m jus’ saying, to mix in with our discouragement a good dollop of education…a way to be part of the solution. But I do believe it’s much greater than we can fix. I also believe, if burial was cheaper than cremation, we would have a different situation on our hands.
On May 27, 2014, at 3:59 AM, jewish-...@googlegroups.com wrote:
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Aptaker
May 30, 2014, 2:30:15 PM5/30/14
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No argument that education is important. But in the recent case in question (requesting tahara followed by cremation) I'm not impressed that the person lacks education, but rather the person has a thought out personal preference. If someone truly knows what tahara is, it's hard to imagine they don't also know the differences and implications between burial and cremation.
Rich Aptaker
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 7:35:58 PM
Rabbi Regina Sandler-Phillips
May 30, 2014, 6:05:15 PM5/30/14
to Jewish Funerals
The simple Jewish funeral plan that I organized a decade ago--including sh'mirah, taharah and a cemetery plot--still costs about the same as deathbed-to-crematory (a/k/a "direct cremation") at other local funeral homes.
That said, on the basis of my experience I don't really believe that cost is the driving factor for persons above a certain affluence level. Like mythologies of environmental friendliness, the cost argument contains numerous contradictory variables (such as embalming and viewing prior to cremation, and/or post-cremation memorial arrangements in which the costs are not calculated).
The Cremation Association of North America poses a number of questions for consumers to ask when choosing a crematory. From my NYC perspective, I have never known a single Jew who actually contacted a crematory directly with any of these questions. Cremation arrangements are simply left to the funeral director--whose price for "direct cremation" doesn't include the actual crematory fee, which is added as an unspecified pass-along charge.
The vast majority of people who choose cremation don't know what it involves as a *process*--and don't want to know. Media coverage colludes in this by consistently omitting basic facts, focusing instead on greenwashed discussions of "biodegradable urns" and other post-cremation products that obscure the real environmental devastation of the process itself.
It's an uphill struggle to provide consistent alternative dialogue, but I believe the results are worth it. Finding the windows of opportunity for such personal dialogue is the key--and this is facilitated by regular outreach programming.
With many blessings for Shabbat Shalom, the Festival of Revelation and beyond,
Regina
Rabbi Regina Sandler-Phillips, MSW,
MPH
Director, WAYS OF PEACE Community Resources
Join us June 3rd for Who's Robbing God? at Shavu'ot Across Brooklyn
Join us June 8th for And When I Die: The Musical!
Join us August 4th-10th for Three Legs or One Foot: Rebalancing Our Jewish Communities
"In
cities of diversity...we organize ourselves and our
money...
to
sustain the poor...and visit the sick...and bury the dead...and comfort the
bereaved...
for
these are ways of peace." (Jerusalem Talmud, Tractate
Gittin)
Laurie Kurs
Jun 5, 2014, 11:41:27 AM6/5/14
to jewish-...@googlegroups.com
Decipering the "Why" someone would choose cremation can be a crucial part of this scenario. IF the reason is solely economics....one could investigate local prices of cremation and compare to basic funeral fees. I just did, and in my neighborhood the costs are about the same. IF the reason is trying to be "GREEN", one could investigate how cremation actually impacts our air. If the "why" can be uncovered, then educated decisions will likely follow.I No judgments...just factual details.
laurie
i
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 at 1:49 PM
From: Aptaker <rapt...@comcast.net>
To: jewish-...@googlegroups.com
From: Aptaker <rapt...@comcast.net>
To: jewish-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [jewish-funerals] Digest for jewish-...@googlegroups.com - 2 updates in 1 topic
No argument that education is important. But in the recent case in question (requesting tahara followed by cremation) I'm not impressed that the person lacks education, but rather the person has a thought out personal preference. If someone truly knows what tahara is, it's hard to imagine they don't also know the differences and implications between burial and cremation.
Rich Aptaker
cil...@comcast.net
Jun 6, 2014, 2:55:19 PM6/6/14
to jewish-...@googlegroups.com
Laurie -
Good point. There may be other reasons for cremation, as well. For example, while I would never dream of having my body cremated, my sister likes the idea of being able to scatter the ashes, which seems more "freeing" to her than burying someone. Some people may want to keep the ashes with them in their home, and may choose cremation for that reason.
Susan
From: "Laurie Kurs" <bu...@usa.com>
To: jewish-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 8:53:50 PM
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