Re: Pratyatosa Confesses to Being a Wife Beater

[Pratyatosa]

Please do not quote this article out of context or change it in any way without my permission.


To whom it may concern:


INTRODUCTION

First, a message from my wife:

The abuse did not define our marriage. Overall, the majority of our dealings were of cooperation in service to Srila Prabhupada. We did a lot of service together, we had a lot of fun together, and we learned much from each other. We had shared ideals in terms of attending temple programs daily, keeping strict standards in the house, using at least half our income for the mission, and living very simply. We had a natural agreement about most of the practical aspects of our lives. The good parts were as real as the abuse, and the abuse did not negate the good for which we continue to be grateful today. (By Urmila Devi Dasi)

When we joined ISKCON, wife beating was a completely new thing to us. Neither of us had grown up in communities where such conduct was tolerated, and neither of us had fathers who ever did such a thing. It's something that we learned in ISKCON, and was quite a shock to both of us when we were told that Srila Prabhupada had prescribed it as a legitimate method for bringing a wife under the control of the husband.

The following is the chorus of song that I used to hear on the radio. During the last 5 years of me living with my wife, I would, from time to time, sing these words to our 3 children at prasadam time:

If you want to be happy for the rest of your life
never make a pretty woman your wife
So from my personal point of view
get an ugly girl to marry you!

Obviously, I didn't follow that advice because, not only did I marry a young, beautiful, intelligent woman, but she was from a rich and famous New York City family! If we had been karmis living in a wealthy neighborhood, the amount of envy that our union generated might have been minimized, but our living in and around ISKCON temples presented a few problems such as ISKCON authorities and other godbrothers/sisters criticizing me to my wife behind my back.


THE RUMORS

Here are some of the rumors that I have heard making their rounds on the Internet:

1. That I broke my wife's jaw: false.

2. That I injured her spinal column: false.

3. That my wife left me: false.

4. That my wife "kicked me out": false.

5. That my wife obtained a restraining order: false.

6. That I was committed to a mental institution: false.

7. That I was sentenced to jail time: false.

8. That I was convicted of a felony: false.


THE LAST TIME THAT I BEAT MY WIFE

20 years into the 23 years of living together, I did spend 3 days in jail awaiting trial. Why would a person such as myself, who had never had a previous conviction, except for minor traffic violations, be forced to stay in jail for slapping his wife on cheek not even hard enough to leave a mark?

Good question.

The answers are twofold:

1. A few months earlier I had been also been hauled into court for slapping my wife on the cheek, and I didn't like the way that the judge was talking to me, so I stood up, walked out of the court room, and skipped town! Sounds crazy, doesn't it? But, believe it or not, that's exactly what I did! A few months later, after "the heat was off," I returned home.  Therefore, I was now considered a "flight risk," so the judge set bail at $1000.

2. Even though I had enough money in my wallet to bail myself out, and was encouraged to do so by the police, I refused. I had two reasons for this: a) I didn't have $1000, but I did have $150, which was enough to bail myself out because a bail bondsman would have covered the balance. Trouble is, I would have lost the $150. b) I was fed up with my wife always keeping everything hush, hush. I knew that if I went to jail, everyone in the devotee community would know about it, and the "cat would be out of the bag." Maybe it was my way of reaching out to my godbrothers and godsisters for help with this, our most infamous marriage problem.

After spending the 3 days awaiting trial, I was lead into the packed courtroom in a bright orange jumpsuit in handcuffs and leg irons! To my chagrin it just happened to be the same judge whom I had insulted by standing up and walking out on previously! He looked me straight in the eye and said, "I remember you!" Then my wife surprised me by standing up and defending me by chastising the judge, exclaiming, "You treated my husband like he was a child!" I consider that a very brave and noble thing for my wife to have done, and I will be forever grateful to her. Otherwise, the judge might have thrown the book at me!

The judge proceeded to take my wife's bold chastisement in stride! This time he was very respectful, and I, following the advice of my cellmates, was very meek and humble. I can't remember the details of the trial, but in the end, the judge sentenced me to one year in prison for the 1st time offense and to another year in prison for the 2nd. My heart sank! Then he said that the two sentences could run concurrently. Then he said that he was commuting both sentences, and that I was sentenced to one year of probation, which was later reduced to a shorter period. I was also required to attend a series of free classes called "Project Change." This program was exclusively for men who had the bad habit of beating their wives, and there were approximately a dozen of us.

Well, guess what! It worked! I was cured. For the final 3 years of living with my wife before I finally took vanaprastha (retired life), I didn't lay a hand on her.

Even the jail time was good therapy for me. The jail was typically overcrowded. My half a dozen or so cellmates, all African Americans, seemed to all like me, and they were actually quite supportive. In addition to coaching me on how to act in front of the judge, they would say things like, "You shouldn't hit your wife, but her mouthing off has got to stop!"


THE FIRST TIME THAT I BEAT MY WIFE

Soon after we got married, the temple president ordered me to beat my wife! He said that it was Prabhupada's recommendation, and that it would help my wife to make more rapid spiritual advancement. He told me that I should beat her on her bare back with a leather belt, and he even supplied me with the belt!

It was common knowledge within ISKCON, at the time, that Srila Prabhupada condoned using corporal punishment to try to "tame" one's wife. Was this a misunderstanding of Srila Prabhupada on the part of the ISKCON leaders? Perhaps it was. In any case, we had no way of knowing at the time.

In any case, my wife was always free to go to the local temple authorities to complain about me at any time. I never once told her any differently.


THE YEARS IN BETWEEN AND MORE DETAILS ABOUT THE RUMORS

Like I said before, I was a wife beater for the first 20 of the 23 years that my wife and I lived together. Now, since I went for 3 years without laying a hand on her, I consider myself cured. However, even during those last 3 years, I was not an easy person to live with. Therefore, I consider my wife a saint for having put up with me all of those years. I also consider her a saint for not listening to the numerous relatives/godbrothers/godsisters who suggested, after we took vanaprastha 15 years ago, that she divorce me and remarry.

However, the rumors flying around the Internet that I broke her jaw or caused spinal column damage are false. Except for one small scar on her face as a result of my slapping her on the cheek having caused her head to bump into a wooden towel rack which, unfortunately, had sharp edges, there was no permanent bodily injury whatsoever.

The rumors that my wife left me or "kicked me out" are also untrue. When I turned 50, I told my wife that I wanted to obey Srila Prabhupada's instruction to take vanaprastha and to leave her under the protection of our oldest son, who was then age 20. She did everything in her power to prevent me from leaving, and, at the same time, I tried to convince her to let me go by, for one thing, making her life miserable! Finally, when I was almost 52, she agreed to let me go, and the rest is history.


THE ISKCON AUTHORITIES AND ANOTHER CONFESSION

During the 23 years that we lived together, I was always under the impression that I had the backing of the ISKCON authorities. I had no reason to think otherwise. Even though, as I later found out, my wife had complained to ISKCON authorities on at least 3 separate occasions, none of them ever said anything to me! I feel very badly about the fact that she was like a helpless child with nowhere to turn. One time, in New York, she even told her father that I had hit her, and he didn't say anything to me either!

That said, I wish to make another confession. Out of the 9 different temples/devotee communities that we lived in during those 23 years, there was one where things really got out of hand. I am very remorseful and embarrassed about my conduct during a significant portion of that 10 year period. I later found out that my wife had complained about it to our local GBC representative, but he simply told her "Call the police!," but he said nothing to me! Was he, out of enviousness, hoping that the abuse would escallate even further and that she would leave me? Was he hoping that I would get a felony conviction and would therefore be unable to get a decent job or live in government assisted housing for the rest of my life?

In any case, It was a very rewarding, but at the same time, a very difficult period for us. My wife was made the gurukula headmaster by our local GBC representative and she very reluctantly agreed to give it a try. As it turned out, she was very good at it, and I am proud of her success. It was also the time when she began to give some of the Sunday Feast lectures. She also, very reluctantly, began to give some of the morning Bhagavatam classes. She was incredibly good at both, and I am very proud of her for those achievements also. However, since, with my computer business I was making money head over heels (I paid $70,000 cash to purchase a bargain priced, completely legal, gurukula building), through my wife, I had almost complete control over the gurukula, and I had a young, rich, famous, intelligent, beautiful wife, is it any wonder that the ISKCON authorities and some of the other devotees in the community were a little envious of me? They were criticizing me to my wife behind my back and it was driving me crazy. In addition to sometimes getting tarred and feathered by the local ISKCON authorities, because of the demands of my computer business I was getting hassled by customers, by employees, by vendors, and by the government. Therefore, I was under a lot of pressure.

In any case, even when I was being abusive, there was another side to the story: I recall 2 or 3 times when I went to my wife sobbing like a baby, begging her to please, please forgive me. In each case, being the kind, soft-hearted woman that she is, she did seemed to forgive me, at least temporarily.


CONCLUSION

Like I told my wife a few days ago, "Krishna is the controller. 'Not a blade of grass moves....' For you and me to have received punishments which we didn't deserve is impossible." That is the law of karma. But why did Krishna put us through all of this? ISKCON's corporate culture of abuse of women and children was and still is a big problem. When I started the Turley child abuse lawsuit against ISKCON in 1999, even though the local temple authorities were using every conceivable weapon at their disposal to try to discourage me, intimidate me, threaten me, and even blackmail me, I could not be deterred. After spending 3 days in jail 6 years earlier, I wasn't the least bit intimidated by their threats and bullying.

Another thing that we can learn from the above case history is that the men who beat their wives while members of ISKCON are also victims. Why didn't the ISKCON authorities even talk to me about it when my wife complained to them? Were they cowards? Were they so envious that they were hoping that the abuse would escalate to the point that my wife left me? Were they so envious that they were hoping that I would get a felony conviction, and therefore be unable to get a decent job or live in government assisted housing for the rest my life?

It's obvious that my godsisters who were the victims of wife beating have ample grounds to get together and file a class action lawsuit against ISKCON. My advice to them is to stop going around criticizing their husbands or ex-husbands for beating them and either accept it as their karma or sue ISKCON or both! And as we can see from the above case history, my godbrothers who beat their wives, while their ISKCON authorities refused to intervene, also have ample grounds for suing ISKCON.

In fact, as you can see from <http://pratyatosa.com/?P=2l>, there are many good reasons for suing ISKCON, so now that the Turley lawsuit is finally winding to a close, another big, big class action lawsuit is a real possibility.

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Ken McLEOD]

Dear Pratyatosa Please Accept My Humble Obeisances
 
All Glories To Srila Prabhupada
 
Thanks for the honesty, it would be nice if the sensationalist saboteurs would do the same. They have no idea, no integrity, and are all irrelevant useless and immoral frauds. Cheats, Cheats, Cheats, that's all.
 
 
ys
kurma

 

---

From: praty...@gmail.com
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2011 21:56:30 -0400
Subject: [Prabhupadanuga] Re: Pratyatosa Confesses to Being a Wife Beater
To: s...@harekrsna.com; chakra...@gmail.com; edi...@dandavats.com; in...@prabhupadanugas.eu; ne...@vnn.org
CC: istag...@googlegroups.com

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[Pratyatosa]

On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 4:14 AM, Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com> wrote:

Prabhu, as I have already stated on this very same thread, I'm working on my "Pratyatosa Confesses to Being a Wife Beater" article. Please be patient. The rumors are all false. I have nothing to hide.

Here is the forum URL of my promised "Pratyatosa Confesses to Being a Wife Beater" article followed by a forwarded copy:

http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/msg/d42b4c50c91079ce

[Pratyatosa]

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 12:42 AM, Ken McLEOD <kurmano...@live.com> wrote:

Dear Pratyatosa Please Accept My Humble Obeisances
 
All Glories To Srila Prabhupada
 
Thanks for the honesty, it would be nice if the sensationalist saboteurs would do the same. They have no idea, no integrity, and are all irrelevant useless and immoral frauds. Cheats, Cheats, Cheats, that's all.
 
 
ys
kurma

Dear Kurma, Prabhu. PAMHO. AGTSP!

You are very welcome. It was not an easy thing for me to do, but I hope that it helps to clear up some of the rumors.

I also hope that it inspires some of our godsisters, who've been beaten by their husbands or ex-husbands, to get together with each other and with their former abusers and finally put the blame where the buck actually stops: with the ISKCON GBC!

They should realize that their abusers are also victims. They should get enough guts to finally do something positive: file a class-action lawsuit against ISKCON! Then it will be clear who the victims are and who the perpetrators are.

Everybody within the criminal justice system understands the cult mentality: "It's always the cult leaders who are to blame!"

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Srimukunda]

Hare Krishna,

Like I said, 

Avoid this man at all costs, rtvik or not. 

Nothing but excuses, excuses and excuses. This is no confession or apology.  Just a series of excuses.  Not a shred of remorse.  If I never hear from this man or his name again, I will a happy life.

Ys

Srimukunda dasa

From the mind of Michael Sandoval via iPhone 

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Srimukunda Prabhu, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

"Excuses?" I have no idea what you are talking about. Please be more specific.

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Srimukunda]

Hare Krishna,

Maybe you should read what you wrote, the whole article is nothing but excuses.  1 everyone was beating their wives. 2 we were told Prabhupada wants us to beat our wives 3 I didnt leave any marks. 4. She likes me...

Ive had enough,

Delete me from your life.

Srimukunda dasa

From the mind of Michael Sandoval via iPhone 

[Pratyatosa]

You sound like an agent of the ISKCON GBC. Your modus operandi is exactly the same as theirs:

1. Always speak in generalities.

2. Try to silence the victims by laying a guilt trip on them.

3. Create a straw man argument that's easy to defeat. (Calling the article an apology. When and where did I ever say that it was an apology?)

Ys, Ptd

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 11:52 PM, Srimukunda <srimu...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hare Krishna,

[Srimukunda]

Oh you are the victim?

Now I delete you from my life.  You no longer exist.

From the mind of Michael Sandoval via iPhone 

On Aug 14, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com> wrote:

From the mind of Michael Sandoval via iPhone 

You sound like an agent of the ISKCON GBC. Your modus operandi is exactly the same as theirs:

[Pratyatosa]

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 11:26 PM, Srimukunda <srimu...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Not a shred of remorse.

 

"I am very remorseful and embarrassed about my conduct during a significant portion of that 10 year period." (<http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/msg/d42b4c50c91079ce>)

Which is it, Srimukunda Prabhu?:

1. You are a liar.

2. You are senile.

3. You never even bothered to read the article that you are so vehemently criticizing.

"A fool reveals himself when he speaks."

Ys, Ptd

[Srimukunda]

You can say what you want, but you are no victim, you have nothing but excuses, go back to your cave, mr vanaprastha. 

From the mind of Michael Sandoval via iPhone 

[Pratyatosa]

Srimukunda said in reference to my <http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/msg/d42b4c50c91079ce> article: "Not a shred of remorse."

But the article itself states: "I am very remorseful and embarrassed about my conduct during a significant portion of that 10 year period."

Srimukunda Dasa, are you even capable of saying: "I made a mistake. I'm sorry. Please forgive me." ??? Have you ever in your life expressed any of these 3 statements?

Ys, Ptd

[B. Radha-Govinda Swami (ACBSP)]

Dear Pratyatosa prabhu, Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. PAMFO I hope your sadhana and bhajan are going well. Thank you for writing this. How many times I remember hearing different devotee men saying (but I never believed it was true) that Srila Prabhupada recommended beating a wife. Of course some of the men in ISKCON were so SICK, that they would beat women who were NOT their wife; women who did NOTHING to them, but due to their own SICKNESS and AGITATION, would haul off and hit the woman for whatever their "reason." Some YEARS after one "brahmacari" had beaten me - his GOOD fortune, that I tolerated it and did nothing to "reply" his battery - he sent an apology through another devotee, along with his explanation: "I was very agitated at that time because it bothered me that I knew you, despite being a woman, were able to control your senses better than me." (I was in white and shaved up at that time.) I was very physically strong then, and could have literally (accidentally) killed that devotee had I decided to hit him back a little too strongly. (I accidentally knocked one man out on a Hari Nam when he was bothering the women, after three times of telling him to stop, and his doing it a 4th time. I also accidentally knocked out a policeman in Accra when he put his hand on the female devotee who had asked me to show her how I distributed books. In my rage that this policeman dared to do that, I grabbed him by his shirt with my left hand, told him, "Get your hand off of my Godsister" - though "techinically" Kirtanananda did her whatevers - and simultaneous threw a punch to his chest with my right fist. Somehow he went down, though I don't think I hit him that hard. (Same with the other person on Hari Nam: I don't think I (back-handed) hit him very hard.)  I could have gotten into a LOT of trouble hitting that policeman, but Srila Prabhupada protected me, because there was a crowd of people who had seen everything, and Africa is a bit different in these ways than the US: Although the policeman's partner came to get me, the crowd got quite passionate in their words telling him exactly what happened, and telling him he should not do anything to me, and leave me alone, some of the people even putting their hands on him to stop him from doing anything to me, in case... So he just accepted the crowd's decision (or else they would have beaten him up). Anyway, that "brahmacari" was from one of Kirtanananda's "crowd" Kirtanananda's teaching the men that women were (in his EXACT words) "for beating and f__king." He later got married (and I hope he didn't go beating his wife). But thank you for being open enough to write this. I hope all is going well. May we be safely situated under the shelter of Srila Prabhupada's Lotus Feet, Those of our Guru Varga, the Vaisnavas, and Sri Sri Radha and Krsna. With love, Your servant, B. Radha-Govinda Hare Krsna --- On Sun, 8/14/11, Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com> wrote:

[B. Radha-Govinda Swami (ACBSP)]

Sri Mukunda prabhu,

Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. PAMFO I hope your sadhana and bhajan are going well.

You asked Pratyatosh to "delete" you from his life, then you "deleted" Pratyatosa prabhu from your life, yet you keep writing to him... From the mind of Michael Sandoval via iPhone, so it must be a product of the mind; accepting and rejecting. So maybe make up your mind. (If you really "don't want him in your life" then you can either block his emails, or ignore them, or don't write back, but you're obviously writing back...

Your servant, B. Radha-Govinda Hare Krsna

--- On Mon, 8/15/11, Srimukunda <srimu...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Srimukunda <srimu...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Pratyatosa Confesses to Being a Wife Beater

To: "Pratyatosa" <praty...@gmail.com> Cc: "Mahesh Raja" <mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk>, "Vidura Das" <vidu...@hotmail.com>, lak...@webtv.net, "Puranjana Prabhu" <ange...@yahoo.com>, in...@prabhupadanugas.eu, "yasoda nandana" <yasod...@yahoo.com>, kurmano...@live.com, urdh...@aol.com, a.kris...@hkm-group.org, agha...@hotmail.com, amey...@gmail.com, anutt...@gmail.com, "bangalore" <b...@iskconbangalore.org>, brahm...@hotmail.com, b...@hkm-group.org, chapa...@gmail.com, c...@iskconbangalore.org, dasd...@aol.com, gada...@yahoo.com, gaura...@gmail.com, gaur...@aol.com, gopal...@hotmail.com, "hasti gopal" <has...@hotmail.com>, iskconban...@gmail.com, istag...@googlegroups.com, "jaya gouranga" <jayagou...@sbcglobal.net>, "Jivadhara" <jiva...@yahoo.com>, kanhaiya...@hotmail.com, khad...@wmconnect.com, krishn...@hotmail.com, madhu...@gmail.com, "Madhusudhan" <rs.madh...@gmail.com>, mahadh...@gmail.com, mahasrn...@yahoo.com, makevr...@gmail.com, m...@iskconbanglore.org, nalin...@aol.com, nave...@windstream.net, navee...@gmail.com, "Nimai" <nimai51...@yahoo.com>, nimai...@yahoo.com, nityanan...@gmail.com, pari...@btinternet.com, prtha_d...@hotmail.com, "radha govinda dasi" <rgswa...@yahoo.com>, saks...@tpg.com.au, srim...@yahoo.com, "stella singh" <stellas...@yahoo.com>, suvy...@gmail.com, theharekris...@gmail.com, ugre...@gmail.com, upade...@googlemail.com, "vadi" <prabhu...@hotmail.com>, va...@hkm-group.org, veda...@vedaveda.com, vyas...@gmail.com, july9...@yahoo.com, gordhan...@yahoo.com, gokul...@gmail.com, das...@yahoo.com.sg Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 9:03 AM

You can say what you want, but you are no victim, you have nothing but excuses, go back to your cave, mr vanaprastha.  From the mind of Michael Sandoval via iPhone

On Aug 15, 2011, at 5:35 AM, Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 11:26 PM, Srimukunda <srimu...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Not a shred of remorse.

"I am very remorseful and embarrassed about my conduct during a significant portion of that 10 year period." (<http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/msg/d42b4c50c91079ce>) Which is it, Srimukunda Prabhu?: 1. You are a liar. 2. You are senile. 3. You never even bothered to read the article that you are so vehemently criticizing. "A fool reveals himself when he speaks." Ys, Ptd

--- On Mon, 8/15/11, Srimukunda <srimu...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Srimukunda <srimu...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Pratyatosa Confesses to Being a Wife Beater

To: "Pratyatosa" <praty...@gmail.com> Cc: "Mahesh Raja" <mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk>, "Vidura Das" <vidu...@hotmail.com>, lak...@webtv.net, "Puranjana Prabhu" <ange...@yahoo.com>, in...@prabhupadanugas.eu, "yasoda nandana" <yasod...@yahoo.com>, kurmano...@live.com, urdh...@aol.com, a.kris...@hkm-group.org, agha...@hotmail.com, amey...@gmail.com, anutt...@gmail.com, "bangalore" <b...@iskconbangalore.org>, brahm...@hotmail.com, b...@hkm-group.org, chapa...@gmail.com, c...@iskconbangalore.org, dasd...@aol.com, gada...@yahoo.com, gaura...@gmail.com, gaur...@aol.com, gopal...@hotmail.com, "hasti gopal" <has...@hotmail.com>, iskconban...@gmail.com, istag...@googlegroups.com, "jaya gouranga" <jayagou...@sbcglobal.net>, "Jivadhara" <jiva...@yahoo.com>, kanhaiya...@hotmail.com, khad...@wmconnect.com, krishn...@hotmail.com, madhu...@gmail.com, "Madhusudhan" <rs.madh...@gmail.com>, mahadh...@gmail.com, mahasrn...@yahoo.com, makevr...@gmail.com, m...@iskconbanglore.org, nalin...@aol.com, nave...@windstream.net, navee...@gmail.com, "Nimai" <nimai51...@yahoo.com>, nimai...@yahoo.com, nityanan...@gmail.com, pari...@btinternet.com, prtha_d...@hotmail.com, "radha govinda dasi" <rgswa...@yahoo.com>, saks...@tpg.com.au, srim...@yahoo.com, "stella singh" <stellas...@yahoo.com>, suvy...@gmail.com, theharekris...@gmail.com, ugre...@gmail.com, upade...@googlemail.com, "vadi" <prabhu...@hotmail.com>, va...@hkm-group.org, veda...@vedaveda.com, vyas...@gmail.com, july9...@yahoo.com, gordhan...@yahoo.com, gokul...@gmail.com, das...@yahoo.com.sg Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 1:58 AM

Oh you are the victim? Now I delete you from my life.  You no longer exist.

From the mind of Michael Sandoval via iPhone

On Aug 14, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com> wrote:

From the mind of Michael Sandoval via iPhone

You sound like an agent of the ISKCON GBC. Your modus operandi is exactly the same as theirs:

1. Always speak in generalities. 2. Try to silence the victims by laying a guilt trip on them. 3. Create a straw man argument that's easy to defeat. (Calling the article an apology. When and where did I ever say that it was an apology?) Ys, Ptd

[B. Radha-Govinda Swami (ACBSP)]

Well Pratyatosa prabhu, maybe don't take Sri Mukunda too seriously. After all, Sri Mukunda prabhu wrote (to us all) and asked you to "delete him" from your life. Then he wrote and said he "deleted" you from his life, but he continues to write to you, so what can be expected from someone with a mind like that? - as he writes that he sends things from his mind as seen below (my signature) With love,

Your servant, B. Radha-Govinda Hare Krsna

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 11:52 PM, Srimukunda<srimu...@yahoo.com> wrote: Hare Krishna, Maybe you should read what you wrote, the whole article is nothing but excuses.  1 everyone was beating their wives. 2 we were told Prabhupada wants us to beat our wives 3 I didnt leave any marks. 4. She likes me... Ive had enough, Delete me from your life. Srimukunda dasa

--- On Mon, 8/15/11, Srimukunda <srimu...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Srimukunda <srimu...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Pratyatosa Confesses to Being a Wife Beater To: "Pratyatosa" <praty...@gmail.com> Cc: "Mahesh Raja" <mahesh Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 1:58 AM

Oh you are the victim? Now I delete you from my life.  You no longer exist.

From the mind of Michael Sandoval via iPhone

--- On Mon, 8/15/11, Srimukunda <srimu...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Srimukunda <srimu...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Pratyatosa Confesses to Being a Wife Beater To: "Pratyatosa" <praty...@gmail.com> Cc: "Mahesh Raja" <mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk>, "Vidura Das" <vidu...@hotmail.com> Date: Monday, August 15, 2011, 9:03 AM

You can say what you want, but you are no victim, you have nothing but excuses, go back to your cave, mr vanaprastha.  From the mind of Michael Sandoval via iPhone

--- On Mon, 8/15/11, Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Pratyatosa Confesses to Being a Wife Beater To: "Srimukunda" <srimu...@yahoo.com> Cc: "Mahesh Raja" <mahesh...@yahoo.co.uk>, "Vidura Das" <vidu...@hotmail.com>, lak...@webtv.net, "Puranjana Prabhu" <ange...@yahoo.com>, in...@prabhupadanugas.eu, "yasoda nandana" <yasod...@yahoo.com>, kurmano...@live.com, urdh...@aol.com, a.kris...@hkm-group.org, agha...@hotmail.com, amey...@gmail.com, anutt...@gmail.com, "bangalore" <b...@iskconbangalore.org>, brahm...@hotmail.com, b...@hkm-group.org, chapa...@gmail.com, c...@iskconbangalore.org, dasd...@aol.com, gada...@yahoo.com, gaura...@gmail.com, gaur...@aol.com, gopal...@hotmail.com, "hasti gopal" <has...@hotmail.com>, iskconban...@gmail.com, istag...@googlegroups.com, "jaya gouranga" <jayagou...@sbcglobal.net>, "Jivadhara" <jiva...@yahoo.com>, kanhaiya...@hotmail.com, khad...@wmconnect.com, krishn...@hotmail.com, madhu...@gmail.com, "Madhusudhan" <rs.madh...@gmail.com>, mahadh...@gmail.com, mahasrn...@yahoo.com, makevr...@gmail.com, m...@iskconbanglore.org, nalin...@aol.com, nave...@windstream.net, navee...@gmail.com, "Nimai" <nimai51...@yahoo.com>, nimai...@yahoo.com, nityanan...@gmail.com, pari...@btinternet.com, prtha_d...@hotmail.com, "radha govinda dasi" <rgswa...@yahoo.com>, saks...@tpg.com.au, srim...@yahoo.com, "stella singh" <stellas...@yahoo.com>, suvy...@gmail.com, theharekris...@gmail.com, ugre...@gmail.com, upade...@googlemail.com, "vadi" <prabhu...@hotmail.com>, va...@hkm-group.org, veda...@vedaveda.com, vyas...@gmail.com, july9...@yahoo.com, gordhan...@yahoo.com, gokul...@gmail.com, das...@yahoo.com.sg

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Mother Radha-Govinda Prabhu, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Thank you very much for defending me against Srimukuna Dasa. He is obviously an agent of Rocana Dasa and the ISKCON GBC body, neither of whom seem to believe in the law of karma. As usual, you've hit the nail squarely on the head! :-)

Like I said before in reference to Srimukunda Dasa, "A fool reveals himself when he speaks."

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[parijata]

The first thing that came to my mind on reading this 'confession' was:  If the GBC had told him to jump off a cliff, would he have done so?  I doubt it.  Any decent person would leave an institution advocating such torture, but this did not seem to occur to him.

 

----- Original Message -----

[parijata]

I read the article through, trying to find some way of giving this guy the benefit of the doubt, but am i missing something?  Is he seriously asking us to believe that he was so under the influence of the sickos in authority that he took a leather belt to the bare back of his wife?  Did he not think to question whether Srila Prabhupada could have suggested such a thing?  Could he not even think for himself?  The only possible 'excuse' i can come up with, is that there was some mighty powerful mind-control activity going on in that 'temple' causing the men to have no choice but act as mindless robots/zombies, being forced to beat their poor wives into 'submission'.  And all in the name of Srila Prabhupada. 

----- Original Message -----

From: Srimukunda

To: Pratyatosa

Cc: Mahesh Raja ; Vidura Das ; lak...@webtv.net ; Puranjana Prabhu ; in...@prabhupadanugas.eu ; yasoda nandana ; kurmano...@live.com ; urdh...@aol.com ; a.kris...@hkm-group.org ; agha...@hotmail.com ; amey...@gmail.com ; anutt...@gmail.com ; bangalore ; brahm...@hotmail.com ; b...@hkm-group.org ; chapa...@gmail.com ; c...@iskconbangalore.org ; dasd...@aol.com ; gada...@yahoo.com ; gaura...@gmail.com ; gaur...@aol.com ; gopal...@hotmail.com ; hasti gopal ; iskconban...@gmail.com ; istag...@googlegroups.com ; jaya gouranga ; Jivadhara ; kanhaiya...@hotmail.com ; khad...@wmconnect.com ; krishn...@hotmail.com ; madhu...@gmail.com ; Madhusudhan ; mahadh...@gmail.com ; mahasrn...@yahoo.com ; makevr...@gmail.com ; m...@iskconbanglore.org ; nalin...@aol.com ; nave...@windstream.net ; navee...@gmail.com ; Nimai ; nimai...@yahoo.com ; nityanan...@gmail.com ; pari...@btinternet.com ; prtha_d...@hotmail.com ; radha govinda dasi ; saks...@tpg.com.au ; srim...@yahoo.com ; stella singh ; suvy...@gmail.com ; theharekris...@gmail.com ; ugre...@gmail.com ; upade...@googlemail.com ; vadi ; va...@hkm-group.org ; veda...@vedaveda.com ; vyas...@gmail.com ; july9...@yahoo.com ; gordhan...@yahoo.com ; gokul...@gmail.com ; das...@yahoo.com.sg

Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 2:03 PM

Subject: Re: Pratyatosa Confesses to Being a Wife Beater

[B. Radha-Govinda Swami (ACBSP)]

Dear Parijata prabhu,

Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. PAMFO I hope your sadhana and bhajan are going well.

I can't speak for Pratytosa prabhu. (He wrote what he did including his "whats" and "whys," his mentioning what he did in regards to what he said his TP at that time told him to do.) I do know that OTHER male devotees in positions of ISKCON authority were not only preaching wife beating, but were very strongly pushing it, as well as were some ("regular" - not in positions of authority)  male devotees; preaching wife beating to other male devotees, and doing it themselves. There were even "brahmacaris" preaching it. Kirtanananda was VERY STRONGLY "preaching" this.  Not only was wife beating being "preached" but so many things of this nature - anti women, anti children, even anti grhastha talk - in the various forms that such (anti women, children, etc.) "preaching" was taking, which resulted in women and children being SEVERELY!!! (and HORRIFICALLY) beaten, INCLUDING women and children who were NOT wifes or children of the person(s) beating them. One Godsister in New Vrndavan, her husband would put a GUN to her head EVERY time he wanted her to have sex with him. (Besides whatever else... she ended up pregnant nine times, having nine daughters.) I know of SOME GodsisterS who were knocked UNconscious MORE than once, by their devotee husbands. (MANY) things happened to SO MANY women on the "Women's Sankirtan Team Parties" headed up by various men - who were physically abusing these women, between beating and/or having sex with them. Then there were the "saffroners," (so-called) "brahmacaris" who were hauling off and hitting/beating women, as well as a few married men in white, who felt the "necessity" to go around beating other women who were NOT their wives. (Maybe some of these married men beat their wives as well.)  And what to speak about the ABUSE OF THE CHILDREN, WHICH ALSO INCLUDES SOME of the WOMEN IN THE GURUKULAS DOING!!! THE ABUSING!!! So, sad as it is, ISKCON has quite a record of ABUSE!!! on ALL levels. Between some very DEEP-ROOTED PSYCHOLOGICAL SICKNESS in hearts of SOME people who joined ISKCON, AS WELL AS SOME TOTALLY WARPED!!! WHACKO!!! "preaching," A LOT of this insanity went on.

May we be safely situated under the shelter of Srila Prabhupada's Lotus Feet, Those of our Guru Varga, the Vaisnavas, and Sri Sri Radha and Krsna.

With love,

Your servant, B. Radha-Govinda Hare Krsna

--- On Tue, 8/16/11, parijata <pari...@btinternet.com> wrote:

[Anuttama devi dasi]

I apologize if I didn't remove everyone who requested. 

Parijata Prabhu, on a couple of occasions I hit my daughter because, being young and unskilled at parenting, I didn't know how to get her to act the way that I wanted.  In my defense, she will admit that she was a very difficult child, and she has forgiven me--claims that she doesn't remember it happening.  However if there were a video of the event on youtube, I'd be branded the worst Mom in the world.  I hope that Krsna can forgive me, too.

If Pratyatosa Prabhu has obtained forgiveness from his wife and has really conquered the challenges that caused him to behave so poorly, I think that he is worthy of our respect as a godbrother.  The people who are worthy of our scorn are those who hide their deviousness or justify it and don't develop any humility.  And the worst crime in the universe is using the wonderful philosophy given to us by our eternal spiritual master and twisting it for the sense gratification to have followers--telling potential devotees that a conditioned soul can deliver them from the cycle of birth and death.

YS,

Anuttama

[Pratyatosa]

Please forgive me if there is anyone on this list of receivers who has asked to be taken off. I've lost track.

Dear Mother Radha-Govinda Prabhu, thank you very much for your valuable insight based upon your actual experience as an unusually aware and experienced member of ISKCON. Your honesty and fearlessness are very much appreciated.

The worst thing about the ISKCON leadership is that first they encouraged wife beating, and then they did a complete about face and tried to demonize the wife beaters!

Did they ever say, "We made a mistake to have encouraged wife beating?" NO!

Did they ever apologize for having encouraged wife beating? NO!

Did they ever say, "Please forgive us for having encouraged wife beating?" NO!

How can "the sum total of the demigods" ever admit to having made a mistake?

Instead, they, like the envious neophytes that they are, tried, and are still trying, to re-write history. They tried, and are still trying, to puff themselves up by putting down as many of their godbrothers as they possibly could/can. They also tried, and are still trying, to break up as many marriages as they possibly could/can. "Divide and conquer."

Anyone who they considered a threat to their ill gotten position of power they tried to dis-empower in anyway they possibly could, up to, and including, murder and the rape of helpless children!

Now they are receiving their just reward. ISKCON is a shambles and they are burdened with her maintenance up to their dying day. Like typical tyrants they must hang on to their positions of power up to the very end, lest they be brought to justice!

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa

[Badrinarayan Dasa]

Hare Krishna. Please drop me from this list / communciation stream. If I am not dropped, I will be obliged to put anyone who includes me in this communication stream to my "block sender" list.

 

By the way, we just finihed the LA Ratha Yatra. It was the biggest ever as far as attendance, donations received, and prasadam distributed. Over 20k books were distributed.

 

Your servant,
Badrinarayan dasa

---

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[parijata]

I agree with what you say here - certainly we have all made - and continue to make, mistakes.  Also i sometimes 'lost it' with my daughter when she was small and very rebellious and i didn't know how to deal with this.  If we were in Vedic times we would not be isolated away from our families and left alone to deal with such difficult situations.  The extended family way of life would ensure that the women of a family would together help with child-raising problems etc. and supply mutual support.

However back to the subject in question, i feel that what was going on in the movement was somewhat different, as these horrific beatings were 'pre-meditated' for a specific purpose and apparently carried out without question by the perpetrators.  I just felt that although the admission was there, no real sorrow or remorse could be detected that might begin to balance out the suffering that has been caused.  It is of course a matter between those two people who seem to have come to an amicable agreement, but unfortunately it seems that such behaviour was rife in those days and some nearly met their death by such means. 

[parijata]

Thank you for this and your other mail which describes how Srila Prabhupada dealt with abuse in the movement.  I know he was very concerned about how children were treated, saying that they would only leave the movement one day if they had bad experiences. 

As to the rest that you mention below, what can be said?  It seems that as soon as a group of people try to live in a close community they will separate into 'controllers' and the 'controlled' and some kind of abuse will soon begin.  We saw it play out on the 'Big Brother' reality-tv series in recent times.  Back in the days when i was part of the vegan circuit, several self-sufficient communities attempted to get established, but there were always problems with interpersonal relationships - all the usual stuff- and one-by-one they broke down.  I think one problem is that 'cliques' form and these are not usually formed of the most pleasant of people, then others come along, feel excluded and leave.  This then forms an increasing concentration of the 'mood' of the clique and anyone decent will soon be discouraged from staying.  Srila Prabhupada wanted us all to see and treat each other as 'masters' and ourself as a servant.  Sadly although this wonderful system would create a perfect world, as things are without true Prabhupada and Krsna-consciousness, these days the meek and humble are swiftly classed as 'weak' by the bullies and crushed underfoot by them.  Perhaps in retrospect, it would not be so likely to happen now that we have all been made more aware of these consequences.  I am very sorry that you and so many others have suffered so much over the years. 

 

----- Original Message -----

[Vidura Das]

ISKCON -  Setting records since 1977!
 

---

From: bnar...@earthlink.net
To: praty...@gmail.com; rgswa...@yahoo.com
CC: pari...@btinternet.com; vidu...@hotmail.com; lak...@webtv.net; ange...@yahoo.com; in...@prabhupadanugas.eu; yasod...@yahoo.com; kurmano...@live.com; urdh...@aol.com; a.kris...@hkm-group.org; agha...@hotmail.com; amey...@gmail.com; anutt...@gmail.com; b...@iskconbangalore.org; brahm...@hotmail.com; b...@hkm-group.org; chapa...@gmail.com; c...@iskconbangalore.org; gada...@yahoo.com; gaura...@gmail.com; gaur...@aol.com; gopal...@hotmail.com; has...@hotmail.com; iskconban...@gmail.com; istag...@googlegroups.com; jayagou...@sbcglobal.net; jiva...@yahoo.com; kanhaiya...@hotmail.com; khad...@wmconnect.com; krishn...@hotmail.com; madhu...@gmail.com; rs.madh...@gmail.com; mahadh...@gmail.com; mahasrn...@yahoo.com; makevr...@gmail.com; m...@iskconbanglore.org; nalin...@aol.com; nave...@windstream.net; navee...@gmail.com; nimai51...@yahoo.com; nimai...@yahoo.com; nityanan...@gmail.com; prtha_d...@hotmail.com; saks...@tpg.com.au; srim...@yahoo.com; stellas...@yahoo.com; suvy...@gmail.com; theharekris...@gmail.com; ugre...@gmail.com; upade...@googlemail.com; prabhu...@hotmail.com; va...@hkm-group.org; veda...@vedaveda.com; vyas...@gmail.com; july9...@yahoo.com; gordhan...@yahoo.com; gokul...@gmail.com; ravindra...@pamho.net; Badrinara...@pamho.net; urmilad...@gmail.com

Subject: Re: ISKCON's INsanity...: Pratyatosa Confesses to Being a Wife Beater

Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 14:24:32 -0700

[Pratyatosa]

Dear Badrinarayan Prabhu, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Congratulations on overseeing another highly successful LA Rathayatra! :-)

Now that we have your attention, may I remind you that you told me in a very proud and arrogant way at ISKCON Denver in 1997, "I was also told [by the ISKCON authorities] to beat my wife, but I refused!" Did this statement make you feel vastly superior to me?

Did you ever think that your situation and my situation might have been a little different?

I was the temple treasurer, had no money of my own, lived in the temple, and was completely dependent upon the temple. The temple president was my trusted friend from our brahmacari days together when he was the temple treasurer. By that time, he had a son, and several months experience as a householder. I was convinced that his understanding of the way in which Srila Prabhupada wanted his male householder disciples to behave, even though it was shocking for both me and my wife at the time, was bona fide. How was I to know otherwise?

You on the other hand, had your own little mobile home and your own independent source of income. Therefore you had a modicum of independence, and were in a much better position to disobey your ISKCON authorities.

In any case, hindsight is always 20/20. Don't you agree that the worst possible type of wife abuse is to divorce your wife? Therefore, who is the biggest wife abuser, you or me?

BTW, speaking to you as a godbrother, what do you think of my public confession to being a former wife beater:

http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/msg/d42b4c50c91079ce

Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa <http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi>, <http://causelessmercy.com/>, <http://rtvik.com/>, <http://pratyatosa.com/>, <http://feedacow.com/>, <http://llbest.com/>