Madhudvisa Lies Again!
Pratyatosa
It's been proven on our Google Group Prabhupadanuga forum:
http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi/browse_thread/thread/e5a1dc2c9049eda9/
... that Madhudvisa Dasa fits the description of a pathological liar. Now he's at it again, accusing both the ISKCONites and the Ritviks of being liars. (See forwarded email #1 below.)
He's a liar, so he thinks everyone else is a liar! To say that the Ritviks are all liars is an extremely offensive lie. So who is the real liar here, Madhudvisa Dasa or the Ritviks? The answer is obvious. Obviously, he's trying to be the "pathological liar guru." A "guru" who gave himself a ritvik initiation and who gave himself a spiritual name. Completely bogus!
He's obviously trying to puff himself up by putting everyone else down, but all that he's doing is making himself look bad. Only complete fools are going to fall for his offensive lies!
The only time that I ordered anything from him, I didn't get what was advertised. When I complained about it, he said that he would send a replacement "free of charge." (See forwarded email #2 below.) More than a year later I reminded him about his promise (See forwarded email #3 below.), but he never even bothered to reply! Now it's been more than 3 years, and still nothing!
He's probably just subconsciously trying to drum up business by creating controversy. Trying increase web traffic to his own capitalistic website so that he can make some money. Let's retaliate by boycotting his website and delete all of our links to his website! Buy from <http://www.itvproductions.net/> and/or <http://www.krishna.com/>. At least they are not ritvik bashers!
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa <http://groups.google.com/group/istagosthi>, <http://causelessmercy.com/>, <http://rtvik.com/>, <http://pratyatosa.com/>, <http://feedacow.com/>, <http://llbest.com/>
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 8:40 AM
Subject: on Guru: Everyone is lying to you...
To: hbe...@gmail.com
I know this letter may be a bit surprising but I am sending it to you because it touches on the most important aspect of spiritual life. The bona-fide guru. The greatest danger to your spiritual life is accepting someone as your guru who does not have the power to take you back home, back to Godhead. It is essential that you have a bona fide spiritual master, otherwise you are lost. Please read it and if you have any questions please post them at:
http://krishna.org/guru-everyone-is-lying-to-you/
And I will answer them there.
The “Guru Issue”. Everyone wants to be a guru. It is such a nice thing to have all those disciples worshiping you and giving you all their money… Even the greatest ritvik leader shouting out “Prabhupada is the guru”, Krishna Kant, also wants to be a guru. He has his philosophy, “The Final Order”, and wants everyone else to follow his philosophy. But, as you may know, I have defeated Krishna Kant’s philosophy way back in 1996 when he first published his paper.
“Krishna Kant has attempted to prove that Srila Prabhupada did not intend any of his disciples to become diksa [initiating] gurus, ever. This is his unique addition to the ritvik philosophy. He has attempted to prove this point by selectively quoting from Srila Prabhupada and using much word jugglery.” (from: http://krishna.org/the-final-order-a-very-misleading-paper/)
It is true, as Bhakti Vikasa Swami points out, that the main players in the ritvik field today are following the Krishna Kant “Final Order” philosophy and this philosophy has been defeated by Rocana Prabhu and also by myself many years ago.
The “Prabhupada will be the only guru for the next 10,000 years” lie is Krishna Kant’s addition and this is also presented by Yasoda-Nandana Prabhu and ISKCON Bangalore. So they are perpetuating Krishna Kant’s lie: “Prabhupada did not want his disciples to become diksa gurus EVER!!!”
If any sincere person takes the time to read Srila Prabhupada’s books and letters he will find in reality Srila Prabhupada’s desire is that all of his disciples become QUALIFIED diksa gurus and accept disciples. Of course the qualification is simple but rare. So obviously the disciples first have to become qualified, then and only then can they become bona fide gurus… So it is not that every disciple can become guru… They first have to become qualified…
It is not only the ritviks who lie about the guru issue. ISKCON is lying also… They say “Prabhupada wants all his disciples to become gurus…” Carefully omitting the “QUALIFIED”…
And what is that “qualification” for a bona-fide guru? It is very simple, only three words “srotriyam brahma nistham“. That’s all. A bona fide guru has heard from his qualified spiritual master and he is fixed in brahman (which means transcendental, liberated, no longer affected by maya). Having heard from his bona-fide guru means that he only repeats and explains what he has heard from his bona fide guru, nothing else. No speculation, nothing from any other source, and at the same time he has to be fixed on the transcendental platform.
Now all the ISKCON guru-tattva is simply for the purpose of presenting the lie that the guru does not have to be brahma-nistham, does not have to be a pure devotee, does not have to be liberated… This ‘non-liberated guru’ philosophy was introduced into ISKCON after it became painfully obvious that the 11 so-called zonal acharyas were not liberated.
So, because the ISKCON gurus are not liberated, not brahma-nistham, the whole ISKCON “guru tattva” is about “proving” that the guru does not have to be a pure devotee. But this is a lie. The guru has to be a pure devotee…
http://krishna.org/the-guru-is-a-pure-devotee/
ISKCON today is so attached to the lie that the guru does not have to be a pure devotee that if you would dare repeat any of the quotes from Srila Prabhupada in the above article you would no longer be welcome there.
So on both sides of the guru debate we find people who are lying to support their own personal sense gratification or philosophy. The ISKCON gurus lie because they know they are not pure devotees and they also know they can not fool others any more than they are pure devotees so they have to claim that it is not necessary to be brahma-nistham to be a guru.
Although they do not say it, they do not want to be srotriyam either, they do not want to be limited to simply repeating and explaining the things Srila Prabhupada presents in his books. The desire to add something new, to speculate, is very strong. And ISKCON is full of speculation and full of new ideas and things devotees have heard from sources other than Srila Prabhupada so the ISKCON ‘guru tattva‘ also avoids the srotriyam aspect of the qualifications of a guru.
So the result? The GBC simply says “All devotees should be gurus and have some disciples.” Never any mention of any qualifications for the gurus at all…
And why do the ritviks lie and say “Prabhupada did not want any of his disciples to become diksa gurus, EVER!!!” There are two reasons, one is many have been cheated by bogus ISKCON gurus and see bogus ISKCON gurus cheating more innocent devotees and this is very painful for everyone and they want to expose the bogus gurus, so lying and saying “Prabhupada did not want any of his disciples to become gurus” becomes an attractive philosophy to them. The other, more insidious motivation, is that Krishna Kant is of South Indian descent and the Indian brahmanas, particularly the South Indian brahmanas are very upset at Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON for making westerners Vaisnavas and worse still making westerners sannyasis and gurus. They want to stop this and have taken to supporting the ritvik philosophy as a way to eliminate western gurus, “Prabhupada did not want any of his disciples to become diksa gurus ever.” is an idea that the Indian caste brahmana’s like very much…
So ISKCON is lying and and the ritviks are lying. Of course there is considerable truth mixed into what both sides say. But when you mix up lies with truth the whole thing becomes useless. If you really want to know what a bona fide guru is please READ SRILA PRABHUPADA’s BOOKS!
PS: Please do not reply to this email, I will not receive it. Instead if you have questions or comments on this email you can either post them on a relevant article at:
http://krishna.org/guru-everyone-is-lying-to-you/
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
KrishnaStore.com
-- for everything you need to become Krishna conscious at home
Krishna.org
-- The Hare Krishna Community
PrabhupadaBooks.com
-- Read Srila Prabhupada's original books online
Krishna.tv
-- listen to and download all Prabhupada music and audio for free
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Madhudvisa dasa <madhu...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: Your KrishnaStore.com order: Shipped
To: "Pratyatosa Dasa (Howard Charles Best)" <praty...@gmail.com>
Dear Pratyatosa Prabhu
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
I am sorry, what is happening is there are 2 versions of "Hare Krishna in the Movies." The more recent one has the extra films from later on.
ITV are having a problem with the master of the DVD that has the new "Hare Krishna in the Movies" and the "Lou Grant Show" on it.
So we are supplying the original "Hare Krishna in the Movies" with the "Lou Grant Show" right now.
It is because I think that the Hare Krishna episode of the "Lou Grant Show" is a very significant show. Perhaps the most important television show ever produced on the Hare Krishna movement.
I will be returning to the US and to ITV in the next couple of weeks and will fix up the problem with the master for the new DVD with the new "Hare Krishna in the Movies" on it and send you one of these DVDs free of charge.
As far as I am aware there was nothing deleted from the DVD you received. I made the master for that DVD and the source of the video was the original 3/4" edited master tape. We did not delete anything.
Maybe it is on the new version, I do not know, but I will send you a new DVD as soon as possible.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
From: Pratyatosa <praty...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 3:55 AM
Subject: Re: BA Refuses to Release "Rascal Editors" Conversation
To: Madhudvisa dasa <madhu...@gmail.com>
Cc: istag...@googlegroups.com, "Eddy Gaasbeek (Ekanatha dasa)" <eka...@gmail.com>, David Shapiro <nrsimh...@gmail.com>
Dear Madhudvisa Prabhu, you don't know the difference between "early 90s" and "1999?" That's quite a stretch, wouldn't you say?
I was one of the first ones to receive the RA CD-ROMs that you were distributing. Since 2 of the files are dated October, 1999, it couldn't possibly have been any earlier than that. And that's exactly the way I remember it. I was living in one of Atreya Rsi's cabins in Beckley, WV at the time. I had good, fast, free Internet access because good old, ex-GBC, ex-guru, alcohol drinking, meat-eating Atreya owned the ISP company!
I was probably the first one to figure out how to convert the RAs into MP3s. I used a cracked, older version of StreamBox Ripper. (They got sued by Real Audio, so the newer versions didn't include Real Audio conversion.) It only took a few hours, not 2 months! Lots of devotees, at the time, asked me how to convert the RAs into MP3s. Nobody wanted RAs. Everybody wanted MP3s. It was the time of WinAmp and Napster. MP3s were all the rage! But you led a sheltered life, and had no idea what was going on in the real world! Did you even know, at the time, what the Internet was?
You are avoiding the issue, Prabhu. The issue is that <http://prabhupadabooks.com/gallery/> is just another one of your misguided boon-dongles. The reason that we can't work together is because you always think that you know everything, and you make up the most ridiculous stories just to try to avoid, at all cost, admitting that you've made a mistake. I can understand the way you were thinking in 1999. "RA is for speech and MP3 is for music." It was a common misconception at the time. So why not simply admit that you were also under that misconception? But instead, you make up a completely ridiculous story about how it takes longer to convert WAV files to MP3s than to convert them to RAs. It just ain't so. What must I do to convince you that it's all your own concocted dream-world phantasmagoria?
My oldest son, Murari, is the one who first came up with Tamal and 15 other Sanskrit diacritic fonts during the DOS days of the early 90s. He also came up with a Devanagari font. The Archives just basically copied what he'd done without ever giving him any credit, let alone any money. They sold the VedaBase for $600 a copy, and never gave him a penny for all of his hard, pioneering work. Why didn't you ask him where to get Unicode fonts? Or, do a Google search such as:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1568&bih=706&q=sanskrit+diacritics
For years, I was #1, but now I'm just #2 and #3. My son, Murari, who used to be #4 has dropped down to #6.
I asked you how you tell the difference between a search bot accessing your website and a person, but you simply ignored my question. In other words, you seem to have a secrecy policy just like the Archives. And this was when we were supposedly buddy-buddy, working on the pictures project together.
More than a year ago, I ordered the "Hare Krishna in the Movies" DVD from you. Trouble is, it wasn't a new version like you'd advertised. It was the same old version that hadn't been updated since the 80s. When I complained, you said that the new version didn't work, and that you would send me a fixed new version free of change as soon as it became available. I'm still waiting!
Therefore, how can I take anything you say seriously?
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
Prabhu I am tired of this complaining. Please don't waste any more of my time with this nonsense. We are supposed to be on the same team Prabhu, not trying to attack each other like this.
It could be 1999 for the real audio release but I think it is before then. I know I was in New York City distributing books in 2000 and it seems to me that the Real Audio project was completed quite some time before then. Because you have a CD with August of 1999 as the file creation date does not mean that is when I first created the files Prabhu. I am not sure Prabhu. I don't remember the date for sure.
But you really don't seem to realize that this was a revolutionary project to put the whole collection of Prabhuapda audio on CDs and distribute them to the devotees for very little. Those CDs contain the audio from over 1000 cassette tapes which were selling at that time for about $80 for sixteen tapes. Which meant before this Prabhu only a few had access to the complete collection of the Prabhuapda audio. And this concept really created a revolution in hearing from Prabhuapda all over ISKCON. So it is all good really but you see it as all bad...
I did the best thing I could at the time and consulted with all the devotees I could at the time and I did not know you at the time. Prabhu stop complaining.
And as far as PrabhupadaBooks.com it is a very successful site, so many devotees write with such praise and say how much it is helping them in their devotional service and how they use it every day. And it is just a half-finished prototype. I spent only about three months working on it and will go back to working on it in a month hopefully and it will develop into something much better than is currently there.
I store the information in the database the way I store it in the database for very good reasons. You may not know it is not very easy to handle multi-byte utf-8 data in php. The system I am using is very practical. I can not understand Prabhu why you have to find fault with everything?
If you want to find fault with anything there are plenty of faults everywhere. This is the material world. We should be looking for that tiny spark of Krishna consciousness and fanning that. It would be far better if you could try and find something which has some slight hint of service to Srila Prabhupada and encouraging me to push on with that rather than trying to criticize everything I have ever done, everything the archives has ever done and everything Nrsimhananda has ever done...
Please do not send me any more of these emails Prabhu and unsubscribe me from whatever is sending me these emails.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Your servant
Madhudvisa dasa
www.KrishnaStore.com
Bhakta Mark
diatribes gives me a headache, and they are all doomed once these
troubled times kick into high gear anyway.
On Jan 21, 2:50 pm, Pratyatosa <pratyat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Prabhus, Hare Krishna! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories
> to Srila Prabhupada!
>
> It's been proven on our Google Group Prabhupadanuga forum:
>
> questions please post them at:
>
> *
> And I will answer them there.
>
> The “Guru Issue”. Everyone wants to be a guru. It is such a nice thing to
> have all those disciples worshiping you and giving you all their money…
> Order”, and wants everyone else to follow his philosophy. But, as you may
> know, I have defeated Krishna Kant’s philosophy way back in 1996 when he
> first published his paper.
>
> “Krishna Kant has attempted to prove that Srila Prabhupada did not intend
> his unique addition to the *ritvik* philosophy. He has attempted to prove
> It is true, as Bhakti Vikasa Swami points out, that the main players in the
> ritvik field today are following the Krishna Kant “Final Order” philosophy
> and this philosophy has been defeated by Rocana Prabhu and also by myself
> many years ago.
>
> The “Prabhupada will be the only guru for the next 10,000 years” lie is
> Krishna Kant’s addition and this is also presented by Yasoda-Nandana Prabhu
> and ISKCON Bangalore. So they are perpetuating Krishna Kant’s lie:
> “Prabhupada did not want his disciples to become diksa gurus EVER!!!”
>
> If any sincere person takes the time to read Srila Prabhupada’s books and
> letters he will find in reality Srila Prabhupada’s desire is that all of
> first have to become qualified, then and only then can they become bona
> fide gurus… So it is not that every disciple can become guru… They first
> have to become qualified…
>
> It is not only the ritviks who lie about the guru issue. ISKCON is lying
> also… They say “Prabhupada wants all his disciples to become gurus…”
> Carefully omitting the “QUALIFIED”…
>
> And what is that “qualification” for a bona-fide guru? It is very simple,
> *maya*). Having heard from his bona-fide guru means that he only repeats
> speculation, nothing from any other source, and at the same time he has to
> be fixed on the transcendental platform.
>
> the lie that the guru does not have to be *brahma-nistham*, does not have
> guru’ philosophy was introduced into ISKCON after it became painfully
> obvious that the 11 so-called zonal acharyas were not liberated.
>
> to be a pure devotee. But this is a lie. The guru has to be a pure devotee…
>
> *
> ISKCON today is so attached to the lie that the guru does not have to be a
> pure devotee that if you would dare repeat any of the quotes from Srila
> Prabhupada in the above article you would no longer be welcome there.
>
> So on both sides of the guru debate we find people who are lying to support
> their own personal sense gratification or philosophy. The ISKCON gurus lie
> because they know they are not pure devotees and they also know they can
> not fool others any more than they are pure devotees so they have to claim
>
> Although they do not say it, they do not want to be *srotriyam* either,
> things Srila Prabhupada presents in his books. The desire to add something
> new, to speculate, is very strong. And ISKCON is full of speculation and
> full of new ideas and things devotees have heard from sources other than
> *srotriyam*aspect of the qualifications of a guru.
> So the result? The GBC simply says “All devotees should be gurus and have
> some disciples.” Never any mention of any qualifications for the gurus at
> all…
>
> And why do the ritviks lie and say “Prabhupada did not want any of his
> cheating more innocent devotees and this is very painful for everyone and
> they want to expose the bogus gurus, so lying and saying “Prabhupada did
> not want any of his disciples to become gurus” becomes an attractive
> philosophy to them. The other, more insidious motivation, is that Krishna
> the South Indian *brahmanas* are very upset at Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON
> for making westerners Vaisnavas and worse still making westerners *sannyasis
> * and gurus. They want to stop this and have taken to supporting the *ritvik
> * philosophy as a way to eliminate western gurus, “Prabhupada did not want
> any of his disciples to become *diksa* gurus ever.” is an idea that the
>
> with truth the whole thing becomes useless. If you really want to know what
> a bona fide guru is please READ SRILA PRABHUPADA’s BOOKS!
>
> PS: Please do not reply to this email, I will not receive it. Instead if
> you have questions or comments on this email you can either post them on a
> relevant article at:
>
> *
> Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
>
> Madhudvisa dasa
>
> * -- for everything you need to become Krishna conscious at home*
> Krishna.org <http://krishnaconnect.com/talk/link.php?M=28109&N=113&L=8&F=H>*--
> The Hare Krishna Community
> *
> PrabhupadaBooks.com<http://krishnaconnect.com/talk/link.php?M=28109&N=113&L=23&F=H>
> * -- Read Srila Prabhupada's original books online *
> Krishna.tv <http://krishnaconnect.com/talk/link.php?M=28109&N=113&L=170&F=H>
> * -- listen to and download all Prabhupada music and audio for free
>
> <http://krishnaconnect.com/talk/link.php?M=28109&N=113&L=172&F=H>Unsubscribe
> me from this list<http://krishnaconnect.com/talk/unsubscribe.php?M=28109&C=4a1364435f5d...>
> For years, I was #1, but now I'm just #2 and #3. My son, Murari, who used
> to be #4 has dropped down to #6.
>
> I asked you how you tell the difference between a search bot accessing your
> website and a person, but you simply ignored my question. In other words,
> you seem to have a secrecy policy just like the Archives. And this was when
> we were supposedly buddy-buddy, working on the pictures project together.
>
> More than a year ago, I ordered the "Hare Krishna in the Movies" DVD from
> you. Trouble is, it wasn't a new version like you'd advertised. It was the
> same old version that hadn't been updated since the 80s. When I complained,
> you said that the new version didn't work, and that you would send me a
> fixed new version free of change as soon as it became available. I'm still
> waiting!
>
> Therefore, how can I take anything you say seriously?
>
> Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
>
Pratyatosa
Ys, Ptd
Bhakta Mark
On Jan 25, 9:44 am, Pratyatosa <pratyat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Please note, Bhakta Mark Prabhu, that <http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/> did
> not publish my Madhudvisa Lies
Pratyatosa
http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/?p=33411
Ys, Ptd
Pratyatosa
http://www.prasadam.co.uk/articles/227-ritvik-lies-and-iskcon-lies.html
Pratyatosa
Pratyatosa
On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 8:24:16 PM UTC-4, Pratyatosa wrote:
Pratyatosa
Ys, Ptd