Re: random observations on this bagarre
jrde...@comcast.net
I'm not sure what to say here - not offended, just amused. For people who may have worried that our raucous show may have been a scarring introduction to the HG for the uneducated populace, I would put your minds at ease - despite my primitive dog technique and less than perfect tuning, response has been thoroughly positive - That is the COOLEST instrument I've ever seen! I routinely hear with "I LOVE that sound!" (yes, they are the uneducated rabble, what can I say?) They also say it's beautiful - which it is but, that's due to the maker, not myself.
As far as playing "not from the oral tradition" - err... yeah... like everyone else, we play the music that has survived from the stuff that was written down. The oral tradition didn't - everyone being dead and all.
And yes, I play medieval music on a renaissance gurdy -sorry if that's offensive. I also play middle eastern music on the same gurdy. Occassionally, I even play stuff from the rock band Queen - (try Fat Bottomed Girls on the Hg - it's really funny)
Finally, I also do "parade around on youtube" - also on myspace, facebook and CD baby. I'm afraid if you set yourself up as the arbitror of what and should not be put up on youtube - you will have a very long and thankless job ahead of you but best of luck and thanks for the input. I have to say all this controversy has drawn more attention to our litltle video than I ever thought it would.
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From: hurdy...@googlegroups.com
To: "Digest Recipients" <hurdygur...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:28:00 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [HG-new] Digest for hurdy...@googlegroups.com - 5 Messages in 2 Topics
Group: http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy/topics
- another movie [1 Update]
- Random Observations on This Bagarre [4 Updates]
- Felicia Dale <cruiks...@pintndale.com> Dec 10 11:08PM -0800
Wow, Harald, I really enjoyed that a lot! Wow. Do you mind if I
post the link to my Facebook page?
Felicia.
On Dec 10, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Harald Pettersson wrote:
- Martin Lodahl <lod...@calwisp.com> Dec 10 06:47PM -0800
There's much in this discussion that I've found interesting, at least in
part because I too am an early music veteran, and abandoned it as a way
to make a living over 30 years ago because I was so tired of fighting
the battles. I understand Bruno's viewpoint and there was a time when I
might have said much the same thing, but one reason that I never do is
the consideration that I wasn't actually there in the middle ages and
the renaissance. I can make guesses about how it might have sounded and
others can too, but we can never really know, so there are pretty sharp
limits to the judgments we can make. Many careers have been made and
lost in battles over this unprovable question. Other list members have
spoken very well indeed about suiting the performance to the venue and
about the distinction between a musical ideal and "musica practica;" at
a Shakespeare festival where I used to play there was this one couple
who came every year from several states away apparently for the express
purpose of sniping at us for using plastic reeds in our Krummhorns.
When your job is to play several shows per day in variable weather
conditions on a large number of instruments, something of a bargain has
to be made between authenticity and practicality.
What I've found truly encouraging, though, is that there's a clear
consensus in favor of civility. What Bruno said was really quite gentle
by internet standards, and the response to it has been even more so,
while making the collective shock perfectly clear. No hint of a flame
war. Nice.
- Marty
--
Martin Lodahl of Auburn, California
UNIX Pro, Musician, Motorcyclist
- Bruno Fournier <br...@estavel.org> Dec 10 09:57PM -0500
Then if you play Renaissance HG in a renaissance context, why are you
playing a piece of music, loosely based on a 13th century piece found in a
Manuscript from Alonso the Xth reign in Spain, which I doubt very much was
accessible to street musicians in the 15th century.
anyways, I think that there we cannot know in any way, what street musicians
played. We know what court musicians played in the Renaissance, based on
the manuscripts and publications ( printed music came out with Gutenberg's
printing method, and the first published lute tablatures were in 1508), but
to say that medieval and renaissance street musicians played what had been
written or published is a far fetched. Rather composers often based their
music on popular tunes from the oral tradition
In any case my initial comment was not so much an attack on the style of
music, but rather on how poorly played the instruments were and how
unmusical the piece was with that interpretation. Furthermore these
Renaissance and medieval are of nothing more than just a big bash, with no
educational value whatsoever.
I do not pretend to be a great musician, nor to be authentic, but I don't go
around parading on youtube either.
( can't wait to see the replies on my comments :-)
Bruno Cognyl-Fournier
www.estavel.org
- Bruno Fournier <br...@estavel.org> Dec 10 10:05PM -0500
Sorry but if you post a video and then send an email to the list to view it,
why should you expect everyone to like it? I initially said that I thought
the performance to be poor and pathetic. I have a right to my opinion, just
like the people who wrote back to the list in praise of
that performance. Of course taste is subjective, I like Dijon mustard,
some people don't like Dijon mustard...
If one cannot criticize a video posted on the list, then I shall abstain.
Bruno
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 9:14 PM, Sergio F. Ribnikov <
- VonH...@aol.com Dec 10 10:19PM -0500
I have done Ren Faires now for 20 years and I have to add that the original
Renaissance Faire was simply an art fair with a theme. The fairs
universally have always been more about entertainment and art than about true
re-enactment.
There are those that fit into the "as close as possible yet still
practical" category at most fairs as well. I have a period correct looking costume
and rubber soles on my shoes. What is right and wrong at Ren Faires is not
the same as what the is right or wrong at historic re-enactments. I have met
those that hand sew their entire set of clothes right down to the
underwear and they scoff because I only "look" the part. Others buy something that
velcros up the back and run around the faire getting drunk and staring at
boobs. If you fall in any of the above you are pretty much welcome at a
fair. Once again, it is not the same for true re-enactors.
As far as the HG goes, I am also the only regular HG player at the local
faire and I play French trad on my luteback. I found long ago that there are
those that prefer to remain "period correct" at all times and I applaud
them for the dedication and great work. There is a group at the fair that is a
very good early music group (who spurned me when I first brought my HG to
Faire...no word if they have decided that I can play yet) and I leave all
the early stuff to them. The truth is I don't much enjoy early music and,
although I could play it, it does not float my boat.
The debate about what is period and what is not (a never ending "you show
me your source and I will show you mine" fight) is best left out of the Ren
Faire circuit all together.
Although I enjoyed the concept of the performances as a whole I am against
anything that shines a dim light on the hurdy gurdy. I work hard to try to
get people to learn HG and I think it is always a struggle when someone
doesn't take it serious enough to play it well. So I have to say: overall
performance good. HG performance: not so good.
Lastly, you will generally find me to keep my fingers away from the
keyboard when I have something really bad to say, so know that I am not bashing
the group just saying as a dedicated HG player that I hate to see the HG
lowered in the eyes of the general public. I also understand that the
performance in general was not solely about the HG.
Scott
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