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:)
This is an older version of match-n-shift, recent versions use
autopano-sift-c directly instead of generatekeys/autopano.
..but all the useful functionality of match-n-shift (support for
bracketed stacks, control-point cleaning) is now in Hugin, so really
there is no need to ship match-n-shift.exe with a Hugin installer.
--
Bruno
It is part of Panotools::Script:
http://search.cpan.org/dist/Panotools-Script
I used to upload occasional Windows .exe of the various scripts, but
not lately. The current match-n-shift makes heavy use of Makefiles,
which, although it has been coded to be cross-platform, has had no
testing on Windows as far as I know.
--
Bruno
The matching of every photo with every other photo is 'expensive' in
computation, particularly with projects with hundreds of photos.
Worse than that, nearly all the comparisons between photos are
between pairs that don't actually overlap, even a small
false-positive rate results in enough 'bad' control points to
completely wreck a project.
The 'multirow' method only compares photos that are very likely to
overlap, so there are many fewer errors even with huge projects
(The generatekeys/autopano pair isn't ideal for this as they
exchange data via XML, which is slow, the new cpfind tool in the
Hugin default branch shouldn't have this problem).
align_image_stack is much better at matching photos with varying
exposure than autopano-sift-c. It is also fast since it assumes an
almost-aligned stack.
--
Bruno
it is IMHO probably the best default choice. Advanced users can fiddle with
other things if they want.
Yuv
and because Windows does not have a proper package management system, so it is
not possible for the installer to know what you do or don't have. The
solution would be for the installer to also install ImageMagick if it is
possible to check whether it is already present before doing so.
> As far as autopano is concerned, there is a name conflict here with
> autopano by A. Jenny and autopano by S. Nowozin, which is a different
> thing altogether. A. Jenny's is used as standalone CPG, whereas
> Nowozin's is used with existing .key files (like in conjunction with
> generatekeys), if my understanding is correct.
the name autopano has been over-used. the above two tools are unmaintained and
for all practical purpose it is better to ignore them / remove them from the
installer all together.
> And the settings for autopano-sift-c include '--projection %f,%v',
> which does not work with the autopano-sift-c.exe I took from my
> previous installation [version 2.5.2] (since the installer didn't
> actually install it).
autopano-sift-c is the only one in the "autopano" series (i.e. SIFT-based CP
detectors) worth considering, but it too has problems. 2.5.2 is broken, use
2.5.1 instead.
> I think the CPG deployment needs some finetuning ;)
That's a nice understatement. In terms of software deployment in general
Windows is a pain because of the lack of package manager. You should really
give Kubuntu a try. There is, of course, a learning curve, but I think you'll
be delighted.
Yuv
computation time is not the real issue here (unless you waste your time
waiting in front of the computer while it does the job).
false positives between non-adjacent images are the real issue.
> my experience, the false-positives aren't so much of a problem
it's very much dependent on the type of scene and the lens focal distance.
You might just not be shooting the kind of panos that do exhibit this kind of
problem.
Yuv
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On September 28, 2010 06:50:42 am Oskar Sander wrote:
> One problem i seem always have lately with the hugin kits, is the
> enblend.exe doesnt run on my XP. "The system cannot execute the specified
> command"
> this happens for both the ordinary and the openmp versions.
what processor do you have in your system?
> Funny enough, I can run enblend_GPU, which I always substitute from an old
> version.
in the GPU version, it is the video card that runs the show. So: what video
card do you have?
> Please enlighten me, is there HW differences that these programs rely on
> (naively i would expect the GPU verion being most sensitive to HW
> differences)
they are both sensitive to different parts of the hardware. I have added an
FAQ [0], [1] but even my little Atom supports SSE2 so I am "blind". Can you
please check it is correct and update if necessary?
Yuv
[0]
http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ#Enblend:_The_system_cannot_execute_the_specified_command
[1] http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ#Enblend-
Enfuse_OpenMP_SSE_GPU:_which_one_is_the_right_one_for_me.3F
it's definitely not lack of SSE2 support with an Intel Core2 Duo. Obviously I
have been away from Windows for too long and did not know about the MSVC
redistributable.
I have updated the first FAQ [0].
I have an issue with your "fixes" to the second FAQ [1], Thomas.
First of all, you have made it completely Windows-centric. The choices exist
also for other platform. For example the most current build for Debian /
Ubuntu has enblend-mp and enfuse-mp (for the OpenMP support).
Second, you made the assumption that everybody build always with GPU. Maybe
that's how you built your binaries, which I understand are on the SF download
page. But --enable-gpu-support=CHECK/yes/no ist still a build-time option and
so the category with/without GPU support is a relevant one.
Please fix
On September 29, 2010 11:53:48 am T. Modes wrote:
> Hi Yuv,
>
> > I have an issue with your "fixes" to the second FAQ [1], Thomas.
>
> I reverted the changes.
I have a different definition for "revert". I would say you "fixed", and now
we have two separate versions. you just renamed yours into another question.
But we have an inconsistency. How many categories of enblend-enfuse are
there?
> > First of all, you have made it completely Windows-centric. The choices
> > exist also for other platform. For example the most current build for
> > Debian / Ubuntu has enblend-mp and enfuse-mp (for the OpenMP support).
>
> But this was not in the FAQ. It stated only that there are 4 variants
> and which advantage/disadvantage each have.
Indeed, that FAQ was a generic, simplified description of the relevant build
options. It makes sense to put additional, platform-specific information in
separate, related questions, as you did. good start.
But I must criticize your version. It assumes that nobody built a version
without GPU support. You can control your builds; and you can control what
goes on the official website. But people download enblend-enfuse builds from
all sorts of places and so you can't assume that all builder exercise the care
that you do in selecting what they build and distribute.
> But it does not say how to
> identify a specific version or that the OpenMP version is called
> enblend_mp. Or if enblend or enblend_mp is build with GPU support.
because I don't know. If somebody know, they can add the information.
Andreas?
we have to be careful with assumptions. The advantage of Debian/Ubuntu is
that there is an official repository, so if somebody types `sudo apt-get
install enblend` I can reasonably assume that he received the packages built
by Andreas. But even on Ubuntu, somebody can download a .deb file from a
third party site and then I can no longer assume names nor features. The
default enblend-enfuse build will call those binaries enblend and enfuse, no
matter what features are selected at build time.
the right way to address this tricky situation in your FAQ is to state that
"if you downloaded a binary *from the official site*" then there are only
those three builds/categories.
> But
> this are the informations a newbie would expect/need to come to a
> decision, which version is the right for him.
Disagree. If the FAQ was for a newbie, I would write it this way:
Q: wich version of enfuse-enblend is the right one for a Windows newbie?
A: download an official version from the enblend website (put a link). there
are three versions available:
1. if you have a modern multi-core CPU, _openMP is for you
2. if you have an old CPU that does not support SSE2, _NOSSE is for you
3. if blending fails and you are using large images, try the standard/default
version.
If you downloaded your enblend version from another source, you can find out
which features it supports with `enblend -v -V`.
(1) "Extra feature: OpenMP: yes" then it is the OpenMP version
(2), **I don't even know how to identify a NOSSE version
(3) "Extra feature: image cache: yes" then it may be the normal version,
however the normal version could also be compiled without image cache
(4) another interesting piece of information to look for is "Extra feature:
GPU acceleration: yes" - official builds all have this feature enabled, but it
is possible that the version you downloaded is not GPU enabled. To use the
GPU when stitching, pass the option --gpu
see, there are four big categories with variations, not just three, even if it
makes sense to offer only three for download.
> > Second, you made the assumption that everybody build always with GPU.
> > Maybe that's how you built your binaries, which I understand are on the
> > SF download page. But --enable-gpu-support=CHECK/yes/no ist still a
> > build-time option and so the category with/without GPU support is a
> > relevant one.
>
> You are only partially correct. Even if enblend is build with gpu
> support, the gpu is not used by default for blending images. So in the
> default calling (enblend -o output input1 input2 ...) an enblend
> without and with gpu support behave the same. You need to specify the -
> g switch to use the gpu.
no, you are off-topic. the topic was "which versions of enblend are there",
not "how do I use them". that said, it makes sense to make the user aware
that they need to pass the --gpu switch (-g is a gimp related option), so I
updated the FAQ.
now please solve the inconsistency/confusion and don't mention that there are
three categories of enblend, but that the official site offers three specific
versions for download.
Yuv
On September 28, 2010 05:12:29 am thePanz wrote:
> what I mean for Mercurial Sub-Repositories is here:
> http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/Subrepositories, we could "split"
> Hugin (core) development from various installers.
Interesting. But there are a lot of caveats. We'll need some testing to see
if/how this will work on SourceForge.
> The main feature
> that I'd like to add is a CMake script to full automatic installer
> generation, unfortunately I've never used CMake :(
look at this as an opportunity to start learning CMake :-)
Yuv
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On September 30, 2010 04:03:35 am Oskar Sander wrote:
> I must admitt i am not the best in class reading READMEs.Installing that
> runtime library fixed my enblend problem.
what is Microsoft's license about distributing the runtime? If I was
building/distributing an installer with an enblend binary, I would either
bunde the runtime inside the installer or detect its presence and download it
at install time.
> Anyway, the open mp wersion use the dual cores better i suppose, right?
> Looking at the trends for the future, it seems like the Moores law for cpu
> power will continue to apply, however now by adding multiples of cores
> instead of just add sheer speed to each core. So, processes that can split
> the task may be the ones that prevail. GPUs will probably also continue to
> increase capacity, but to me it does not seem to be as a generic solution,
> right?
the GPU vs. CPU choice is more complex than that. If speed is your concern,
update to the latest video card graphics and run a quick timed test with and
without `--gpu`
Yuv
On September 30, 2010 09:22:51 am thePanz wrote:
> Ciao Yuval (I noticed now that this isn't the first time you write me
> in Italian ;) )
the image at [0] is about one hour north-west of you (Milano, right?) ;)
> You're right.. maybe you can create a new repository only for
> HuginSetup where I can commit my changes.. then we'll keep in sync or
> try to use those new Mercurial Features... what do you think?
done [1]. it's empty now, you can fill it. integration / sync keeping is not
critical (like now between bitbucket and SF) can be thought of later.
Yuv
[0] http://panospace.wordpress.com/2009/06/29/one-month-with-ubuntu/
[1] http://hugin.hg.sourceforge.net/hgweb/hugin/windowsSetup/
I used to live there, and travel very often to Italy.
> I'm trying to commit to that repo, but I got this response pushing
> changes to it:
sorry, forgot to deal with Sourceforge's quirks, had to chmod g+w the new
repository. fixed.
> Maybe I'm not allowed to push to that repository?
SF does not have fine grained control. Every project member can write to
every repository, unless, like in this case, it is not group writable. Then
only the user who owns the repo (usually the one who created it) can write.
<sarcasm>
I love SourceForge
</sarcasm>
buona domenica
Yuv
autopano-sift-c isn't part of Hugin. It sounds like you have a
snapshot of autopano-sift-c, the only version we can recommend is
the 2.5.1 release.
>2) Many problems with HDR (not panoramic) images.
> a) The images get incorrectly aligned (although the control points
>are OK).
I'm not sure, can you provide an example project?
> b) Strong distortion of images when using the "straighten" function
>in preview.
Yes the straighten function has always failed with non-panoramic
scenes (i.e. it doesn't work unless there is a spread of yaw
values). This has been the same for the last few releases, it isn't
going to change soon unless somebody gets annoyed enough to fix it.
> c) The problem mentioned here:
>http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx/browse_thread/thread/43c002b01166c7b5/8341f47694c4e61f
I tried your test photos, but they are 5EV apart. There is
basically no exposure overlap between the photos, I don't see how
you could construct usable HDR data from this (exposure fusion is ok
though).
>3) Hugin can't process images stored in path with non ASCII
>characters. Usually the problem appears when running Nona. First I
>thought it can be fixed by using a different encoding of .tmp files.
>But that didn't help. So I tried to convert the path to the short
>(DOS) names and that fixed the problem. The same problem appears if I
>try to use Autopano-SIFT-C multirow.
I'm guessing you are using Windows with a Russian codepage? Hugin
works fine with non-ascii characters on OS X, Windows and Linux, but
apparently not on Windows with Russian/Czech character sets. This
has been a known problem for a long time, but is impossible to fix
without a developer who has this particular combination.
The entire system for running external programs has been rewritten
in the current trunk/default branch. So hopefully this problem is
already fixed there, but it won't be possible to backport these
major changes to the 2010.2 branch (we would very much like you to
test this new code if you can).
So aside from the HDR issues, these are all problems that have
existed in past releases.
--
Bruno
OK, so maybe the installer should link to this older version, because
the linked 2.5.2 doesn't work. thePanz, could you fix this, please?
> > a) The images get incorrectly aligned (although the control points
> >are OK).
>
> I'm not sure, can you provide an example project?
>
As I said, it's hard to reproduce, but I'll try to get some useful
information if it happens to me again.
> Yes the straighten function has always failed with non-panoramic
> scenes (i.e. it doesn't work unless there is a spread of yaw
> values). This has been the same for the last few releases, it isn't
> going to change soon unless somebody gets annoyed enough to fix it.
OK, so could it be at least disabled in these situations when using
the assistant mode?
> > c) The problem mentioned here:
> >http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx/browse_thread/thread/43c002b...
>
> I tried your test photos, but they are 5EV apart. There is
> basically no exposure overlap between the photos, I don't see how
> you could construct usable HDR data from this (exposure fusion is ok
> though).
So I should have taken one more photo with no exposure correction,
right? I took a +2 EV and -3 EV photos. I'm quite new to HDR, so the
problem might be very likely at my side. But I got some quite good
results from Luminance HDR. It's pretty far from perfect, but it shows
it should be possible to make a HDR out of the images:
http://img338.imageshack.us/f/pokusg.jpg/ (tonemapped version).
> I'm guessing you are using Windows with a Russian codepage? Hugin
> works fine with non-ascii characters on OS X, Windows and Linux, but
> apparently not on Windows with Russian/Czech character sets. This
> has been a known problem for a long time, but is impossible to fix
> without a developer who has this particular combination.
>
> The entire system for running external programs has been rewritten
> in the current trunk/default branch. So hopefully this problem is
> already fixed there, but it won't be possible to backport these
> major changes to the 2010.2 branch (we would very much like you to
> test this new code if you can).
Czech Republic is in Central Europe, so we don't use Russian character
set. We use CP-1250 or ISO-8859-2, these are standard letters with
some added like ěščřžýáíé. The same letters are used in Poland,
Sovakia, Slovenia, Croatia and other countries. My idea for a quick
fix is to use short path (like C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/)
for image files. This should fix the problem at least for CE
languages.
If you have some other solution in the current trunk, I will be happy
to test it if somebody can provide me a compiled binary. I did some
PHP, PyQt and PyGTK coding, but I never programmed anything in C/C++.
I have absolutely no experience with compiling SW on Windows.
Thanks a lot for your replies.
Please don't change the default parameters in any installer, this is
how Hugin gets a bad name: "it doesn't work".
There are two valid ways of sending parameters to autopano-sift-c:
--maxmatches %p --projection %f,%v %o %i
--maxmatches %p %o %s
The first method is broken with some/most 2.5.2 snapshots, but is
ok with the actual released versions (2.5.0 & 2.5.1) - This is why
it is the default setting in Hugin.
The second method is broken with any release or snapshot before
2.5.1, but should get the best results because it can cope with
matching photos from different lenses.
Both methods work with autopano-sift-c 2.5.1.
So really the _only_ version of autopano-sift-c that should be
distributed is the 2.5.1 release. I understand that very recent
snapshots are ok, but I haven't done any testing myself.
--
Bruno
It needs fixing, but if there isn't a fix available and the bug
isn't any worse than with previous releases it isn't going to delay
2010.2.0.
>So I should have taken one more photo with no exposure correction,
>right? I took a +2 EV and -3 EV photos. I'm quite new to HDR, so
>the problem might be very likely at my side.
I'm the wrong person to be giving HDR advice, but my recent
experience was ok with -2, 0, +2 sets (though I still prefer
exposure fusion to tonemapped HDR).
>> I'm guessing you are using Windows with a Russian codepage?
>> Hugin works fine with non-ascii characters on OS X, Windows and
>> Linux, but apparently not on Windows with Russian/Czech character
>> sets.
>Czech Republic is in Central Europe, so we don't use Russian
>character set. We use CP-1250 or ISO-8859-2, these are standard
>letters with some added like ěščřžýáíé. The same letters are used
>in Poland, Sovakia, Slovenia, Croatia and other countries.
We don't actually know why there is a problem, Japanese is ok, but
Czech isn't. It is some weird Windows thing.
>My idea for a quick fix is to use short path (like
>C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/) for image files. This should
>fix the problem at least for CE languages.
Quick fixes can turn up all sorts of problems. Once we have
2010.2.0 out of the way I expect there will be snapshots of the
trunk where this bug can be resolved one way or another.
--
Bruno
just pay attention where you copy Autopano-SIFT-C to - it is tainted by the
SIFT patent.
Yuv
thanks. do you care for repository write access?
regarding icons and so, there is a proposal [1] from Cristian for a visual
evolution of the current Hugin logo. It has been around for more than a year
now, and no objections. I think it should be finalized and go into 2010.4 (or
2011.0, whatever comes first).
Yuv
[1] http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-
ptx/browse_thread/thread/9d6a54f871b0ae2/6595323524ac209c
Most likely yes. The new makefile lib has been integrated into 2010.3.
Sorry to read that the problem with non-ASCII characters is still there.
The bug is reported [0], however I vaguely recall somebody saying that a
solution would be to use the windows short path names and I don't find it
mentioned in the bug report. It was too late in the 2010.2 release cycle to
try, but maybe it is something you want to try for 2010.3 before we branch out
2010.4 for release?
Yuv
[0]
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3086440&group_id=77506&atid=550441>