Why do people bother with multiple names/addresses?
Michael B. Trausch
This is not a new revelation; in fact, one of the reasons I keep coming
back to it is to try to figure out just _what_ that something is.
I find myself wondering what people's purpose here is. I remember the
first time I came to this newsgroup, _years_ ago, thinking (based on the
newsgroup's name) that this would be a interesting newsgroup to be in.
And I was very quickly disappointed. The behavioral patterns weren't
all that dissimilar then than they are now.
And then it occurs to me that I don't think that people in _general_ are
capable of decent, logical, objective discussion --- or anything that
comes close to resembling it. Look at everything society is built on,
pretty much everywhere: politicians who point fingers, news media that
is anything but objective, extremists ("true believers") on both ends of
every possible spectrum who can't suspend their opinions for just a
bloody minute to listen to someone else unless they occupy the exact
same end of the spectrum, and so on and so forth.
Honestly, it surprises me that the people in this world get *anything*
done with all of the one-sided, closed-minded people that there are in
it. Perhaps I am just being overly cynical. And it surprises me even
more that "true believers" will take someone in the middle of a spectrum
and treat that person as if they are somehow "more" of an "enemy" to
them than someone who is a die-hard on the opposite end of the spectrum.
This seems utterly senseless to me.
All that rambling to get to the question in the subject line: why _do_
people bother with multiple posting identities here? What purpose is it
supposed to serve? Is it supposed to create the illusion that there are
more people in the group than there actually are? Is it supposed to
somehow employ the notion of "strength in numbers" in the hope that
people are too stupid to see through the clues and realize that an
uncommon viewpoint is more common than it really is? Do people actually
think it is an effective tactic?
And then I find myself wondering if those people suck at chess or not.
Anyway, enough rambling (from me, anyway).
--- Mike
Snit
PM:
> It seems to me that there is something very wrong with this newsgroup.
> This is not a new revelation; in fact, one of the reasons I keep coming
> back to it is to try to figure out just _what_ that something is.
>
> I find myself wondering what people's purpose here is. I remember the
> first time I came to this newsgroup, _years_ ago, thinking (based on the
> newsgroup's name) that this would be a interesting newsgroup to be in.
> And I was very quickly disappointed. The behavioral patterns weren't
> all that dissimilar then than they are now.
>
> And then it occurs to me that I don't think that people in _general_ are
> capable of decent, logical, objective discussion --- or anything that
> comes close to resembling it.
Sadly, I think you are all too often right. All too often there is name
calling, silly accusations, insisting someone believes something they do not
(and they cannot be quoted as to saying), etc.
I have a degree in psychology... only a Bachelor's, but human nature is
interesting to me. It amazes me how many times the same people can make the
same logical errors over and over again and how many times they can deny
their actions. In the extreme cases, they claim to KF people - often
claiming this against large numbers of people. It shows a strong lack of
faith in their own ability to argue their points.
> Look at everything society is built on, pretty much everywhere: politicians
> who point fingers, news media that is anything but objective, extremists
> ("true believers") on both ends of every possible spectrum who can't suspend
> their opinions for just a bloody minute to listen to someone else unless they
> occupy the exact same end of the spectrum, and so on and so forth.
Sure: but there are also people who *can* argue their points well. In the
real world I seek these people out far more than I do in Usenet. Frankly
many of the folks in Usenet would bore me too quickly in the real world...
they are the type who just stand their looking dumbly, walk off and then
later insist they knew more than the person they made silly accusations of
or whatever. In COLA, their lack of response is perfectly clear... and they
tend to brag about their lack of ability to make a reasoned counter or to
support their claims. It is just weird and fascinating.
> Honestly, it surprises me that the people in this world get *anything* done
> with all of the one-sided, closed-minded people that there are in it. Perhaps
> I am just being overly cynical. And it surprises me even more that "true
> believers" will take someone in the middle of a spectrum and treat that person
> as if they are somehow "more" of an "enemy" to them than someone who is a
> die-hard on the opposite end of the spectrum. This seems utterly senseless to
> me.
In the real world, people tend to have better and deeper debates than many
in COLA can manage. Look at those who brag about how many folks they are
running from (kill filtering): these are the folks who are all but bragging
about their lack of ability to support their ideas.
> All that rambling to get to the question in the subject line: why _do_ people
> bother with multiple posting identities here? What purpose is it supposed to
> serve?
To make it seem like a larger consensus. Look at the "quotes" HPT uses
against me based on his inability to actually quote me doing as he claims -
*many* of those are socks and forgeries. Heck, I have noted this to HPT and
he ignores it, pretending they are each different people. Likely 10 on his
list are all Steve Carroll from CSMA.
> Is it supposed to create the illusion that there are more people in
> the group than there actually are? Is it supposed to somehow employ the
> notion of "strength in numbers" in the hope that people are too stupid to see
> through the clues and realize that an uncommon viewpoint is more common than
> it really is? Do people actually think it is an effective tactic?
HPT is an example of someone who does.
> And then I find myself wondering if those people suck at chess or not.
LOL! I suspect they do. But more than that, as I have been noting
recently, they just have little faith in themselves. They put others down
as their way of trying to feel better about themselves. It, frankly, is
pathetic. But, I admit, interesting, too.
> Anyway, enough rambling (from me, anyway).
>
> --- Mike
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Chris Ahlstrom
> It seems to me that there is something very wrong with this newsgroup.
> This is not a new revelation; in fact, one of the reasons I keep coming
> back to it is to try to figure out just _what_ that something is.
It's easy. It is indundated by trolling sociopaths who, for whatever
motivation, want to drown out this newsgroup and take it over.
(And, at a 75% to 90% posting rate from people I think are useless and
annoying enough to plonk, they seem to be succeeding.)
> All that rambling to get to the question in the subject line: why _do_
> people bother with multiple posting identities here? What purpose is it
> supposed to serve? Is it supposed to create the illusion that there are
> more people in the group than there actually are? Is it supposed to
> somehow employ the notion of "strength in numbers" in the hope that
> people are too stupid to see through the clues and realize that an
> uncommon viewpoint is more common than it really is? Do people actually
> think it is an effective tactic?
>
> And then I find myself wondering if those people suck at chess or not.
They just suck. The rest of us all too often get suckered.
--
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
-- Voltaire
Snit
> Michael B. Trausch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> It seems to me that there is something very wrong with this newsgroup.
>> This is not a new revelation; in fact, one of the reasons I keep coming
>> back to it is to try to figure out just _what_ that something is.
>
> It's easy. It is indundated by trolling sociopaths who, for whatever
> motivation, want to drown out this newsgroup and take it over.
You do understand that this includes HPT and other "advocates", right?
> (And, at a 75% to 90% posting rate from people I think are useless and
> annoying enough to plonk, they seem to be succeeding.)
It is not that you think they are useless, it is that you know you have no
reasoned response to them. You are advertising your insecurity in your own
views. If you really found that much of the group to be useless, and really
had that many posts blocked, you would simply stop posting.
>> All that rambling to get to the question in the subject line: why _do_
>> people bother with multiple posting identities here? What purpose is it
>> supposed to serve? Is it supposed to create the illusion that there are
>> more people in the group than there actually are? Is it supposed to
>> somehow employ the notion of "strength in numbers" in the hope that
>> people are too stupid to see through the clues and realize that an
>> uncommon viewpoint is more common than it really is? Do people actually
>> think it is an effective tactic?
>>
>> And then I find myself wondering if those people suck at chess or not.
>
> They just suck. The rest of us all too often get suckered.
I admit I get pulled in... I am far too trusting. But I prefer that over
being too suspicious and non-trusting. Just my nature: I assume others
*also* have good intentions and are trying to be honest... sometimes even
when the evidence clearly shows this is not their pattern.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
RayLopez99
> And then I find myself wondering if those people suck at chess or not.
>
Chess? Why do you mention chess? For the record I have not changed
this ID in over 10 years, despite having people in the real world know
who I am, and I excel in chess (rated a class A player on the Elo
scale).
RL
High Plains Thumper
> Michael B. Trausch wrote this:
>
>> It seems to me that there is something very wrong with this
>> newsgroup. This is not a new revelation; in fact, one of the
>> reasons I keep coming back to it is to try to figure out just
>> _what_ that something is.
>
> whatever motivation, want to drown out this newsgroup and take it
> over.
>
> (And, at a 75% to 90% posting rate from people I think are useless
> and annoying enough to plonk, they seem to be succeeding.)
Chris, you have hit the nail on the head. Michael, your observations are
keen.
The NG has been taken over by trolls to trash it. A few of those
personas have as Chris alludes to, psychopathic personalities. They put
their spins by keying in on partial truths and bending them, such as an
advocate's use of alternate nyms years ago as chronic nymshifting (see:
http://colatrolls.blogspot.com for the oodles of nyms by one troll
called flatfish who still prolifically nymshifts),
"Lienux" makes one sexually perverted, violating personal privacy by
posting a person's personal contact information, attacking their
spouses, false accusations of software and intellectual property
thievery, using libellous language, and ad nauseum.
The only thing they understand is termination of their accounts for
abuse or engagement of law enforcement agencies.
This is nothing new. Hence this is why the authors who penned the
following from the official c.o.l.advocacy FAQ and primer found at:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/
and multiple other sites:
[quote]
7.1 Disinformation
If COLA were a physical location like a building where those who
would advocate the growth of the Linux operating systems and the Linux
community gather, the anti-Linux propagandists would be raiding that
building. They would be vandalizing the building, painting graffiti on
the walls, defecating and urinating on the floors and furniture,
breaking down the doors, setting fire to the building and physically
assaulting the resident Linux advocates and the visitors who happen to
be in the building at the time of the raid.
COLA is not a physical location, so they have had to adapt their
methods so that they can do an on-line version of what was described in
the prior paragraph. A key method used by anti-Linux propagandist to
attack Linux, its users, sysadmins, developers, advocates and those who
have come to COLA to lean about Linux. is a form of propaganda known as
disinformation. One of their favorite version of disinformation is known
as FUD.
[/quote]
One of those FUDs is that the official FAQ is not the official FAQ.
Another is that they have a right to misrepresent "Lienux", to insult
the posting community with their lies, ad hominems, spouting abusive
language that would be worthy of a fist to the mouth if done in person.
>> All that rambling to get to the question in the subject line: why
>> _do_ people bother with multiple posting identities here? What
>> purpose is it supposed to serve? Is it supposed to create the
>> illusion that there are more people in the group than there
>> actually are? Is it supposed to somehow employ the notion of
>> "strength in numbers" in the hope that people are too stupid to see
>> through the clues and realize that an uncommon viewpoint is more
>> common than it really is? Do people actually think it is an
>> effective tactic?
>>
>> And then I find myself wondering if those people suck at chess or
>> not.
>
> They just suck. The rest of us all too often get suckered.
The nymshifting is to give the false impression that there are more than
1 or 2 individuals doing it, a community in disagreement. You'll find
that in reality there are less than a half dozen of psychopathic
personalities trashing the newsgroup. The reason for their nasty
behaviours is to drown out Linux totally, as expressed in the Microsoft
Evangelism document released some 4 years ago. It states,
[quote]
In the Mopping Up phase, Evangelism's goal is to put the final nail into
the competing technology's coffin, and bury it in the burning depths of
the earth. Ideally, use of the competing technology becomes associated
with mental deficiency, as in, "he believes in Santa Claus, the Easter
Bunny, and OS/2."
Just keep rubbing it in, via the press, analysts, newsgroups, whatever.
Make the complete failure of the competition's technology part of the
mythology of the computer industry.
[/quote]
PDF page 55
Microsoft Evangelism
Comes vs. Microsoft court case
http://www.groklaw.net/pdf/Comes-3096.pdf
In essence, these trolls are confirming that the Microsoft operating
system and other software cannot compete on their own merits, but
seriously need help. Thus, rather than carry on civilised conversation,
must attack the posting community of c.o.l.advocacy and trash Linux, a
competing superior operating system in comparison.
These trolls are done in a manner to hide their intent IMHO, and to
deflect blame on the originating perpetrators. It is all done to seed
search engines, to bury "Lienux" in the depths of the earth and make it
an anthology of the industry.
If I wanted to trash a newsgroup or forum, I would delegate through a
3rd party to find the worst psychopathic troll personalities, give them
some seed money on a regular basis, and release them to do their dirty
work. This is what I believe is happening in COLA.
--
HPT
Ezekiel
"High Plains Thumper" <h...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:4da9a603$0$19798$6e1e...@read.cnntp.org...
> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> Michael B. Trausch wrote this:
>>
>>> It seems to me that there is something very wrong with this
>>> newsgroup. This is not a new revelation; in fact, one of the
>>> reasons I keep coming back to it is to try to figure out just
>>> _what_ that something is.
>>
>> It's easy. It is inundated by trolling sociopaths who, for
>> whatever motivation, want to drown out this newsgroup and take it
>> over.
>>
>> (And, at a 75% to 90% posting rate from people I think are useless
>> and annoying enough to plonk, they seem to be succeeding.)
>
> Chris, you have hit the nail on the head. Michael, your observations are
> keen.
>
>
"High Plains Thumper" is certainly an expert on nymshifting. After all, he
did it himself and was caught red-handed nymshifting. He even posted his
admission that he's posted as several different people and is an admitted
nymshifter.
This isn't an empty accusation - this is a *fact.*
<quote>
High Plains Thumper Dec 5 2006, 8:35 am
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: High Plains Thumper <h...@singlecylinderbikes.com>
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 22:35:18 +0900
Subject: Finally busted ....
Well, it looks like I'm busted.
I found out that AIOE uses an encrypted ID for posting host, but it is not
randomised by contact. It is related to the IP address that posting host
uses and is consistent.
I figured that since the trolls use AIOE to anonymise themselves, why not?
I have found out that it can be tied to a particular user. My ISP does not
change my IP address.
Live and learn ....
Anyway, I got a kick out of some of the responses as "Wendy Toiletwater",
LOL.
</quote>
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/694628805cba474e?hl=en
flatfish+++
Not to mention all the other nyms he shifts under.
That's why he uses a multitude of free servers like CNNTP, aioe,
private.org, motzarella etc.
He's a slimeball Linux dork who is still to afraid to post his music for
critique but yet loves to slam the music and programs used by others to
make music.
A real wannabe that HPT is.
--
flatfish+++
Please visit our hall of Linux idiots.
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Desktop Linux: The Dream Is Dead
"By the time Microsoft released the Windows 7 beta
in January 2009, Linux had clearly lost its chance at desktop glory."
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/207999/desktop_linux_the_dream_is_dead.html
High Plains Thumper
> Chris Ahlstrom stated:
>> Michael B. Trausch wrote this:
>>
>>> It seems to me that there is something very wrong with this newsgroup.
>>> This is not a new revelation; in fact, one of the reasons I keep
>>> coming back to it is to try to figure out just _what_ that something
>>> is.
>>
>> motivation, want to drown out this newsgroup and take it over.
>
> You do understand that this includes HPT and other "advocates", right?
FUD, right Michael Glasser? You still have yet to answer why these 151
posters have commented on the Snit Circus of Pathological lies:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/938429f72a06fb5b
Let alone this:
75- Lusotec (COLA): "You have started threads on this subject many times,
and many times it has been explained to you how X copy & paste should
work and how bugs in a application are not bugs in the system, but still
you return to this subject and post the same false statements." 09 Mar
2011
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/37032133fbe9db92
>> (And, at a 75% to 90% posting rate from people I think are useless and
>> annoying enough to plonk, they seem to be succeeding.)
>
> It is not that you think they are useless, it is that you know you have
> no reasoned response to them. You are advertising your insecurity in
> your own views. If you really found that much of the group to be
> useless, and really had that many posts blocked, you would simply stop
> posting.
This is a classic example of an ad hominem attack, a typical Snit ploy.
--
HPT
flatfish+++
> FUD, right Michael Glasser? You still have yet to answer why these 151
> posters have commented on the Snit Circus of Pathological lies:
Shouldn't you be practicing for karaoke night at the local soup kitchen,
George Hostler?
> This is a classic example of an ad hominem attack, a typical Snit ploy.
And you are a classic example of a whiner.
William Poaster
Probably because many advocates are ignoring him, & his stupid "Snit's
Circus". It's no use trying to give that idiot a "reasoned response", as
those 151 posters have found out. The moron just ignores it & carries on
with his own agenda. And on, & on, & on... "Like a circle in a spiral,
like a wheel within a wheel, Never ending or beginning on an ever spinning
reel"
GAH!
High Plains Thumper
> "High Plains Thumper" wrote...
>
>> Chris, you have hit the nail on the head. Michael, your observations
>> are keen.
>>
>> The nymshifting is to give the false impression that there are more
>> than...
>
> "High Plains Thumper" is certainly an expert on nymshifting. After all,
> he did it himself and was caught red-handed nymshifting. He even posted
> his admission that he's posted as several different people and is an
> admitted nymshifter.
>
> This isn't an empty accusation - this is a *fact.*
>
> <quote>
> High Plains Thumper Dec 5 2006, 8:35 am
I expressed the truth, something you as a troll do not understand. Also,
you have to go back 5 years, because you can't find any other dirt, right
Ezekiel? Or should I say Flatfish, as the both of you (or one) posted
within a couple minutes of my posting.
You confirm my statements, so precisely.
--
HPT
flatfish+++
> Ezekiel wrote:
>> "High Plains Thumper" wrote...
>>
>>> Chris, you have hit the nail on the head. Michael, your observations
>>> are keen.
>>>
>>> The nymshifting is to give the false impression that there are more
>>> than...
>>
>> "High Plains Thumper" is certainly an expert on nymshifting. After all,
>> he did it himself and was caught red-handed nymshifting. He even posted
>> his admission that he's posted as several different people and is an
>> admitted nymshifter.
>>
>> This isn't an empty accusation - this is a *fact.*
>>
>> <quote>
>> High Plains Thumper Dec 5 2006, 8:35 am
>
> I expressed the truth, something you as a troll do not understand.
LIEing for LIEnux is *not* the truth, George Hostler = HPT = High Plains
Thumper = Wendy Toiletwater.
> Also,
> you have to go back 5 years, because you can't find any other dirt, right
> Ezekiel? Or should I say Flatfish, as the both of you (or one) posted
> within a couple minutes of my posting.
So much for your kill files.
See that, you just got caught *lying again*, George Hostler = HPT =
High Plains Thumper = Wendy Toiletwater.
Wasn't that easy?
> You confirm my statements, so precisely.
We sure do.
It's a simple matter to catch you lying and nymshifting.
See above.
BWaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!
William Poaster
They are soo predictable. ;-)
--
I just wanted to see what Hadron would answer,
since he /complains about everything/ in Linux.
Notice no answer.
caver1 - alt.os.linux.ubuntu
Message-ID: <47fac17c$0$17354$4c36...@roadrunner.com>
Snit
8:22 AM:
> Snit wrote:
>> Chris Ahlstrom stated:
>>> Michael B. Trausch wrote this:
>>>
>>>> It seems to me that there is something very wrong with this newsgroup.
>>>> This is not a new revelation; in fact, one of the reasons I keep
>>>> coming back to it is to try to figure out just _what_ that something
>>>> is.
>>>
>>> It's easy. It is inundated by trolling sociopaths who, for whatever
>>> motivation, want to drown out this newsgroup and take it over.
>>
>> You do understand that this includes HPT and other "advocates", right?
>
> FUD, right Michael Glasser?
Nope. Thanks for asking... I guess.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Snit
4/16/11 8:29 AM:
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 15:22:32 +0000 (UTC), High Plains Thumper wrote:
>
>
>> FUD, right Michael Glasser? You still have yet to answer why these 151
>> posters have commented on the Snit Circus of Pathological lies:
>
> Shouldn't you be practicing for karaoke night at the local soup kitchen,
> George Hostler?
>
>> This is a classic example of an ad hominem attack, a typical Snit ploy.
>
> And you are a classic example of a whiner.
I note how absurd put downs say more about the speaker than the target, and
HPT calls that an ad hominem attack.
He uses the term a lot but does not understand what it means.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Snit
pan.2011.04.16....@induh-vidual.net on 4/16/11 8:29 AM:
See: *that* is an example of an ad hominem attack - one that says a lot more
about you than it does about me.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Ezekiel
>
>"High Plains Thumper" wrote in message news:ioccpi$9c8$2...@dont-email.me...
>
>Ezekiel wrote:
>> "High Plains Thumper" wrote...
>>
>>> Chris, you have hit the nail on the head. Michael, your observations
>>> are keen.
>>>
>>> The nymshifting is to give the false impression that there are more
>>> than...
>>
>> "High Plains Thumper" is certainly an expert on nymshifting. After all,
>> he did it himself and was caught red-handed nymshifting. He even posted
>> his admission that he's posted as several different people and is an
>> admitted nymshifter.
>>
>> This isn't an empty accusation - this is a *fact.*
>>
>> <quote>
>> High Plains Thumper Dec 5 2006, 8:35 am
>
>I expressed the truth, something you as a troll do not understand. Also,
>you have to go back 5 years, because you can't find any other dirt, right
>
Once a lying nymshifting idiot = always a lying nymshifting idiot. The only
"truth" here is that you're a hypocrite because you constantly accuse others
of nymshifting yet *you* are the proven nymshifter.
>Ezekiel? Or should I say Flatfish, as the both of you (or one) posted
>within a couple minutes of my posting.
>
(The hypocrite again throws out false accusations of others nymshfiting.)
Wow... two people posting within a couple of minutes. That's some solid
evidence you have there. If you actually believe that because two people
happened to post something within a couple of minutes of each other that it
somehow means they're one individual then you're far more stupid then I
thought. And to be honest - I don't consider you to be very bright. I could
write a 20 line cron job that posts your worthless "COLA faq and primer."
>You confirm my statements, so precisely.
>
Yeah... two people made a post within a couple of minutes. Detective Jackoff
Hostler cracks the case and concludes it must be nymshifting - the same way
he operates.
Michael B. Trausch
I mentioned chess because I have found (and this is by no means a
scientific figure or study) that people I engage IRL and lack the
ability to engage is a level debate tend also to lack the ability to
engage in long-term strategy in a game such as chess. The ability to
use logic to win a game (or at least come to a draw in it) and the
ability to use logic to analyze and engage in argument are not unrelated
things, at least that is the belief I presently hold.
Of course, there are some people that are excellent at the employment of
logic and strategy, and just choose to do neither because it is too much
work. Though that is a completely different issue.
I will say that reading the replies on this thread has been interesting
to me. I still don't truly understand why people thing that changing
their posting identity is useful, considering that it is often
transparent. Things like writing style and message headers (should one
choose to look at them and compare them across different messages) can
easily give it away, taking away any effectiveness that there might
otherwise be. If this were something like Freenet, I suppose it would
easily be more effective, but this forum is on Usenet, not the Freenet.
--- Mike
Snit
HPT is the guy who claims that he has proof I posted with a sock - his
"proof" being that he and Sandman do not doubt it.
Huh?
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Ezekiel
>
>"Snit" wrote in message
>news:C9CF25AE.950CA%use...@gallopinginsanity.com...
The old "if we repeat a claim enough times it must be true" form of proof.
Similar to the 'Everybody knows it's true' type of proof.
Arguments made by people who have no actual proof or evidence.
Snit
10:51 AM:
> On 04/16/2011 02:39 AM, RayLopez99 wrote:
>> On Apr 16, 3:58 am, "Michael B. Trausch" <m...@trausch.us> wrote:
>>
>>>> And then I find myself wondering if those people suck at chess or not.
>>
>> Chess? Why do you mention chess? For the record I have not changed
>> this ID in over 10 years, despite having people in the real world know
>> who I am, and I excel in chess (rated a class A player on the Elo
>> scale).
>
> I mentioned chess because I have found (and this is by no means a
> scientific figure or study) that people I engage IRL and lack the
> ability to engage is a level debate tend also to lack the ability to
> engage in long-term strategy in a game such as chess. The ability to
> use logic to win a game (or at least come to a draw in it) and the
> ability to use logic to analyze and engage in argument are not unrelated
> things, at least that is the belief I presently hold.
Hmmm, I suspect they have some correlation, but I am not sure how strong it
is.
> Of course, there are some people that are excellent at the employment of
> logic and strategy, and just choose to do neither because it is too much
> work. Though that is a completely different issue.
I used to play chess a lot at a café where there were people who were good -
very, very good. People in the top 100 of the US. I played them often and
watched many games. Out of likely hundreds of games I won *two*, and one of
those was largely because my opponent was heavily distracted. I considered
myself a pretty bad player... but then I started playing others who were not
*serious* players and found I am decent. Still would not consider myself
great - and *grossly* out of practice, but I can at least play a game
without embarrassing myself. :)
> I will say that reading the replies on this thread has been interesting
> to me. I still don't truly understand why people thing that changing
> their posting identity is useful, considering that it is often
> transparent. Things like writing style and message headers (should one
> choose to look at them and compare them across different messages) can
> easily give it away, taking away any effectiveness that there might
> otherwise be. If this were something like Freenet, I suppose it would
> easily be more effective, but this forum is on Usenet, not the Freenet.
There have been some obvious socks I have never figured out who they really
were - but mostly because I do not really care. I will say I have a pretty
sure-fire way of knowing who is using socks though - whoever accuses me of
doing so is projecting. There might be a rare, rare exception to this, but
for the most part people see others as they are. I tend to be far, far
over-trusting, to a fault. I give people chance after chance after chance,
even when logic tells me they are not likely to even *want* to be
reasonable. This is, in some ways, a weakness of mine - but it is based on
my own honesty and kind nature. While it sometimes gets me into trouble,
overall I would not want to change that. And, in the real world, far more
often than not it is a benefit.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Snit
>>> Yeah... two people made a post within a couple of minutes. Detective
>>> Jackoff
>>> Hostler cracks the case and concludes it must be nymshifting - the same
>>> way
>>> he operates.
>>>
>>>
>> HPT is the guy who claims that he has proof I posted with a sock - his
>> "proof" being that he and Sandman do not doubt it.
>>
>> Huh?
>>
>
> The old "if we repeat a claim enough times it must be true" form of proof.
> Similar to the 'Everybody knows it's true' type of proof.
>
> Arguments made by people who have no actual proof or evidence.
Exactly. Heck, HPT claims I am a liar even though he cannot find any
examples of my doing so... but since he has a list of comments stretching
back to 1995 from other people (and many, many socks and forgeries), he
insists this is "evidence".
Huh? It is not like my words are not still available in the Google archive.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
flatfish+++
>>
>>
>>"Snit" wrote in message
>>HPT is the guy who claims that he has proof I posted with a sock - his
>>"proof" being that he and Sandman do not doubt it.
>>
>>Huh?
>>
>
> The old "if we repeat a claim enough times it must be true" form of proof.
> Similar to the 'Everybody knows it's true' type of proof.
>
> Arguments made by people who have no actual proof or evidence.
That's and re-writing history is the COLA way.
Eventually, it all catches up with them though.
DFS
Time for an addition to the Dopez resume!
a self-made millionaire that didn't make any millions
a Ph.D. with no degree
a rocket scientist with no rocket and no science
a $200/hr consultant with no clients
a male model with no pics
a boss with no employees
an open mind with no mind
a three-language speaker with no home country
a hotline to executives with no hotline
a hobby coder who masters technologies
a billionaire counselor with no billionaires to counsel
a developer who delivers MSDN sample code
a rich man who buys $5 pirated software on the street
a success story who seeks a destitute mail-order bride
and now...
a Class A chess player with no class
High Plains Thumper
> "High Plains Thumper" wrote...
>>
>>> This isn't an empty accusation - this is a *fact.*
>>>
>>> <quote>
>>> High Plains Thumper Dec 5 2006, 8:35 am
>>
>> I expressed the truth, something you as a troll do not understand.
>> Also, you have to go back 5 years, because you can't find any other
>> dirt, right
>
> Once a lying nymshifting idiot = always a lying nymshifting idiot. The
> only "truth" here is that you're a hypocrite because you constantly
> accuse others of nymshifting yet *you* are the proven nymshifter.
This is called "spin".
[quote]
3. spin
To present an incident in a particularly slanted or biased manner.
Originated from the game of pool, wherein if one shoots the ball from the
side to put “spin” on the ball, it will go into the desired hole. To
properly “Spin” a story, one should employ a “Spin Doctor”.
“Spin Doctors” are frequently used by politicians to help write a
slanted, story which presents a “fact” in a far different way than most
people would see it, had it been told directly and honestly.
[/quote]
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=spin
You accuse others of hypocrisy, yet you make no mention of your trolls
buddies, for example Spin Doctor Duane Arnold The Bee, who still to this
date continually and frequently nymshifts.
Nyms used (partial list): Anti on Chicken Little(s), Anti on Linux
Sinister Chicken Littles, Brown Nosing Linonut, Chicken Little Albright,
Chris Ahlstrom (spoof of real poster), chrisv1, COLA Fish and Game, COLA
Gone Wild, COLA People Controller, COLA Gone Wild, COLA Sucks, COLO
Loons, Confused Donkey, Dan S-illy aka Barney Phife, Doctor Bee, General
Paul Montgomery, General Paul Montgomery1, General Paul Montgomery2,
General Paul Montgomery3, General Paul Montgomery4, General Paul
Montgomery5, General Paul Montgomery6, General Paul Montgomery7, Hunting
for JackA$$, Identity, Jack the Ripper, Junk Yard Dog, Kotex Queen Clear
Windows, Linonut (spoof of real poster), Linux Pimps, Linux Sucks, Little
Mad Dog, Mick Murphy (spoof of real poster), Montgumdrop, MontGumDropped1
Paul, Mr. Arnold, Paragon Falcon (he can't spell "peregrine"), Paul
MontDenturesDropped, Paul Montgomery (spoof of real poster), Paul
Montgomery 9000, Paul Montgumdrop, Pauly, Ringmonster, Roy S. Schestowitz
(spoof of real poster), Savwafare with Flare, Sorry Linux Pimps, Sudden
Impact, Tall Tales Albright, Terry Porter (spoof of real poster), Terry's
Web Server, The Bee, The Big Ticket, The Hornet, The Lone Ranger, The
Lone Ranger1, The Lone Ranger2, Triple X Killer, Van Helsing the Albright
Hunter, etc.
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/21de910944eeacf5
and Spin Doctor Smith AKA Flatfish.
Nyms used (partial list): 1.ball.willy, Abbie Diaz, achmed.jones, Aftab
Singh, alan.yunick, Alicia Hunt, Allen Cusimano, Allie Perkins,
allison_hunt1969, Allison Juergans, Amy Fisher, Ana Thema, andyschipowitz,
Anna Banger, anonymous, Archie, Archie Moss Bunker, Archie Watermann,
arkady.duntov, Attila, baaaaabaaaaboooeee, Baba Booey, Babcock Johnson,
babcock.latreen, Babu Singh, ball.cock.the.plumber, banjo.boy69, Bart,
[snip long alphabetised list for brevity]
willy watkins jr, Willy Wong, wiltons_pypes, Winnie Septos, wizard.shot,
wm_walsh, Wobbles, wylbur.horseman, Yanick Schmuley and zyklon_C.
Plus many, many, many more.
More nyms: Big Pussy, Leroy Jefferson, Juan, Charles C. DuPlessey,
M0she_, Erin Mungan, John Fuhrer, Hans Lister, Doctor Smith, Gary M.
Stewart, Sandeep Kumar, Moshe Goldfarb, waterskidoo, Singer.
http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/
Yeah, you have a leg to stand on, troll. You certainly smell of Trent
Allen Black (TAB).
--
HPT
flatfish+++
> Ezekiel wrote:
>> "High Plains Thumper" wrote...
>>> Ezekiel wrote:
>>>
>>>> This isn't an empty accusation - this is a *fact.*
>>>>
>>>> <quote>
>>>> High Plains Thumper Dec 5 2006, 8:35 am
>>>
>>> I expressed the truth, something you as a troll do not understand.
>>> Also, you have to go back 5 years, because you can't find any other
>>> dirt, right
>>
>> Once a lying nymshifting idiot = always a lying nymshifting idiot. The
>> only "truth" here is that you're a hypocrite because you constantly
>> accuse others of nymshifting yet *you* are the proven nymshifter.
>
> This is called "spin".
Yea, George Hostler.
And *you* are the one doing the spinning.
You're a Linux loser who hasn't got a life.
You use shit keyboards.
Shit software.
Karaoke machines rescued from the trash.
And you have no talent.
It's Saturday night, shouldn't you be at the local watering hole singing
"I'm Every Woman", Wendy.........
Chris Ahlstrom
> Snit wrote:
>> Chris Ahlstrom stated:
>>>
>>> It's easy. It is inundated by trolling sociopaths who, for whatever
>>> motivation, want to drown out this newsgroup and take it over.
>>
>> You do understand that this includes HPT and other "advocates", right?
No, I do not. Besides, putting "advocates" in quotes highlights clearly
Snit's motive. A motive obviously quite similar to dross like "Hadron".
> FUD, right Michael Glasser? You still have yet to answer why these 151
> posters have commented on the Snit Circus of Pathological lies:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/938429f72a06fb5b
>
>>> (And, at a 75% to 90% posting rate from people I think are useless and
>>> annoying enough to plonk, they seem to be succeeding.)
>>
>> It is not that you think they are useless, it is that you know you have
>> no reasoned response to them.
*LMAO*.
Indeed, Snit old boy, I have no reasoned response to posts like:
It does appear that Chris Arsestrom is attached to Roy's sphincter via
his tongue. Quite amazing as he used to be quite a balanced poster. Now
its just, as you say, snip and hide and giggle while not even bothering
to argue the FACTS presented to him. He rarely, if ever, reads the posts
he replies to. It's almost as if Roy kicks him up his arse and says "go
get Liarmutt, fetch!".
-- "Hadron" <ghoqsi$4j4$1...@reader.motzarella.org>
So said the fucking lying, trolling, linturd asshole POS loser Peter
Kohlkopf.
Hey krautboy, no one here gives a flyin fuck as to the crap you post!
You disgusting, stinking fuckslime.
Go and get fucked, you duff cunt.
You are every bit as braindead as "turd" chrisv.
-- Clogwog <201102011426...@smtp.cobalt.loc>
"Schestowtiz posts that 'Ballmer is a bully and defaced the poor kids
computer' and guess what.... each and every one of the 'sheeple'
advocates is lock-step in agreement with him." - trolling fsckwit
Ezekiel, lying shamelessly
You know jagoff, if I could wager my net worth against yours, and prove
it happened just like I said (I didn't capture it on video), and take
everything you own I would do it in a flash. Leave you with nothing but
some old yellow basement shag carpet to sleep on, and worn-out Yaris
tires for pillows.
-- DFS <ii2b64$fit$9...@news.eternal-september.org>
In case you don't have the time to do the proper research, here is the
Cliff Notes version of COLA.
3. Chris Ahlstrom. A pathetic little suck up. He pretends to be open
minded and reasonable but tends to snip and run when he gets on the
losing side of a debate, which is 99 percent of the time. He is a Linux
zealot by night and a Windows programmer by day.
-- flatfish++ <1f3pmi0uarito.c...@40tude.net>
>> You are advertising your insecurity in
>> your own views. If you really found that much of the group to be
>> useless, and really had that many posts blocked, you would simply stop
>> posting.
Nope. What keeps me here is honest, knowledgable, and humorous posters such
as Greg, TomB, Homer, bbgruff, Richard, RonB, and so on. Even 7, with his
zany humor. Are they perfect? No, but, as you can see by reading the small
sampling of the "quality" (in Snit's estimation, apparently) posts above,
they are head and shoulders above the pathological clots that clog
this newsgroup with vile drivel.
> This is a classic example of an ad hominem attack, a typical Snit ploy.
Snit is a troll, nothing more. A particularly articulate and devious one,
but a troll nonetheless.
--
If a 'train station' is where a train stops, what's a 'workstation'?
drs. Desederius Croeck
news:pan.2011.04.16....@induh-vidual.net...
Aaargh, just STFU, you in Kansas farming hick and tenant of manorial land
who pays rent by having homosexual sex with the landowner.
Snit
Funny how you do not include any "advocate" quotes in that... when they are
just as bad. But, sure, I do not defend such from anyone... though when you
do the things being discussed I can hardly fault people for noting it.
And also funny how you did *not* have a quote from me...
>>> You are advertising your insecurity in
>>> your own views. If you really found that much of the group to be
>>> useless, and really had that many posts blocked, you would simply stop
>>> posting.
>
> Nope. What keeps me here is honest, knowledgable, and humorous posters such
> as Greg, TomB, Homer, bbgruff, Richard, RonB, and so on. Even 7, with his
> zany humor. Are they perfect? No, but, as you can see by reading the small
> sampling of the "quality" (in Snit's estimation, apparently) posts above,
> they are head and shoulders above the pathological clots that clog
> this newsgroup with vile drivel.
How do you figure? TomB tends to have more class that that... but 7 and HPT
and Peter K and RonB... not really.
>> This is a classic example of an ad hominem attack, a typical Snit ploy.
>
> Snit is a troll, nothing more. A particularly articulate and devious one,
> but a troll nonetheless.
See: you just lash out... but you cannot show examples.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
High Plains Thumper
People like Snit are largely responsible for the decline of Usenet as a
communication medium, resulting in seeking moderated forums for posting.
For example, this conclusion on the Snit Circus, which sums it up nicely:
151- Znu: "The Snit Circus has gotten particularly bad as of late. When I
set up my filters to kill all of Snit's posts, plus direct replies to them
(which is how I'm keeping things from now on), nearly 40% of the most
recent 1000 articles in CSMA go out the window. .... In all, something
like 50% of the traffic in this group is now related to Snit insanity.
.... I killfile Edwin because I don't have a patience to have discussions
with someone who deliberately tries to waste my time. But watching *other
people* tie him knots can be entertaining. The Snit-related posts are not
like this. They are endless repetitions of the exact same material and/or
arguments dating back *years* about who said what." 20 Apr 2008
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/9244dd79c682b2d6
When you add Snit along with the other Wintrolls herein, the following is
the effect they are striving to obtain:
[quote]
Subject: 3.3 The destructive Troll
In about the year 1999 a new breed of Troll appeared who have the declared
intention of destroying a specific Target newsgroup. This is done by a
variety of posts, (see Section 4) intended to drive normal posters away
from the specific newsgroup.
When the percentage of Troll posts, including followups exceeds about 75%
of the total posts, most readers seem to just give up and unsubscribe.
Usenet, and particularly the uk.local.* hierarchy is for most users a
hobby and if that hobby ceases to be enjoyable, the obvious answer is just
to find another hobby.
Once a specific Target newsgroup has been laid waste as was
uk.local.birmingham it becomes a Old Target newsgroup, This happened in
about February 2000 it is being maintained a wasteground by crossposts
from the current Target ng.
[/quote]
Posted by Gregory Morrow - 30 Apr 2007 05:06 GMT
Author: Dave Fawthrop
Computer Hyphenation Ltd
Halifax UK
http://www.medkb.com/Uwe/Threads/Single.aspx/cancer-forum/6080
Herein is IMHO the source of the cancer that needs to be cut out:
[quote]
In the Mopping Up phase, Evangelism's goal is to put the final nail into
the competing technology's coffin, and bury it in the burning depths of
the earth. Ideally, use of the competing technology becomes associated
with mental deficiency, as in, "he believes in Santa Claus, the Easter
Bunny, and OS/2."
Just keep rubbing it in, via the press, analysts, newsgroups, whatever.
make the complete failure of the competition's technology part of the
mythology of the computer industry.
We want to place selection pressure on the companies and individuals that
show a genetic weakness for competitor's technologies, to make the
industry increasingly resistant to such unhealthy strains, over time.
[/quote]
PDF page 55
Microsoft Evangelism
Comes vs. Microsoft court case
http://www.groklaw.net/pdf/Comes-3096.pdf
--
HPT
Snit
1:17 PM:
> William Poaster wrote:
>> High Plains Thumper wrote:
>>> Snit wrote:
>>>
>>>> It is not that you think they are useless, it is that you know you
>>>> have no reasoned response to them. You are advertising your
>>>> insecurity in your own views. If you really found that much of the
>>>> group to be useless, and really had that many posts blocked, you would
>>>> simply stop posting.
>>>
>>> This is a classic example of an ad hominem attack, a typical Snit ploy.
>>
>> Probably because many advocates are ignoring him, & his stupid "Snit's
>> Circus". It's no use trying to give that idiot a "reasoned response", as
>> those 151 posters have found out. The moron just ignores it & carries on
>> with his own agenda. And on, & on, & on... "Like a circle in a spiral,
>> like a wheel within a wheel, Never ending or beginning on an ever
>> spinning reel" GAH!
>
> People like Snit are largely responsible for the decline of Usenet as a
> communication medium, resulting in seeking moderated forums for posting.
Well, I point out the lies of you and your friends... and, sure, that ruins
some of your fun. I lose no sleep over that.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
anonymous
You rearranged the quotes and hid your personal insult. Let me restore
it and show you your ad hominem attack on Chris (whom you edited right
out of your quotes):
CHRIS - "It's easy. It is indundated by trolling sociopaths who, for
whatever motivation, want to drown out this newsgroup and take it over."
SNIT - "It is not that you think they are useless, it is that you know
you have no reasoned response to them. You are advertising your
insecurity in your own views. If you really found that much of the group
to be useless, and really had that many posts blocked, you would simply
stop posting."
Chris was replying to Michael and was referring to no one by name. You
inserted yourself into that exchange and were referring to Michael
specifically.
HPT was correct. Your comment was an ad hominem attack on Chris.
Chris's comment was not (because there was no specific target).
You said HPT doesn't know what the term means, but I don't think it's him
who is confused about the meaning.
flatfish+++
HPT's day is ruined the minute he looks in the mirror at himself each
morning.
It must be quite depressing.
Snit
4/17/11 2:08 PM:
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 09:28:21 -0700, Snit wrote:
>
>> flatfish+++ stated in post 13r9oyy7294ii.1...@40tude.net on
>> 4/16/11 8:29 AM:
>>
>>> On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 15:22:32 +0000 (UTC), High Plains Thumper wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> FUD, right Michael Glasser? You still have yet to answer why these 151
>>>> posters have commented on the Snit Circus of Pathological lies:
>>>
>>> Shouldn't you be practicing for karaoke night at the local soup
>>> kitchen, George Hostler?
>>>
>>>> This is a classic example of an ad hominem attack, a typical Snit
>>>> ploy.
>>>
>>> And you are a classic example of a whiner.
>>
>> I note how absurd put downs say more about the speaker than the target,
>> and HPT calls that an ad hominem attack.
>>
>> He uses the term a lot but does not understand what it means.
>
> You rearranged the quotes and hid your personal insult. Let me restore
> it and show you your ad hominem attack on Chris (whom you edited right
> out of your quotes):
>
> CHRIS - "It's easy. It is indundated by trolling sociopaths who, for
> whatever motivation, want to drown out this newsgroup and take it over."
This is not me.
> SNIT - "It is not that you think they are useless, it is that you know
> you have no reasoned response to them. You are advertising your
> insecurity in your own views. If you really found that much of the group
> to be useless, and really had that many posts blocked, you would simply
> stop posting."
And this is not an ad hominem attack.
> Chris was replying to Michael and was referring to no one by name. You
> inserted yourself into that exchange and were referring to Michael
> specifically.
>
> HPT was correct. Your comment was an ad hominem attack on Chris.
> Chris's comment was not (because there was no specific target).
It was not an ad hominem attack. Please, learn what the concept is before
you make such an accusation.
> You said HPT doesn't know what the term means, but I don't think it's him
> who is confused about the meaning.
Why do you think that?
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
chrisv
>People like Snit are largely responsible for the decline of Usenet as a
>communication medium, resulting in seeking moderated forums for posting.
Them and those who enjoy playing their idiotic games.