Install new printer: Linux vs Windows
Homer
to Amazon UK, and picked the colour inkjet with the most customer votes,
an HP Deskjet 6940.
It arrived yesterday, and I set it up in a few minutes (the hardware,
anyway). The hardest part was inserting the cartridges (I'd heard the
retaining clips break easily if you're not careful). What follows is a
comparison of setting up this printer on both Windows and Linux:
###########
# Windows #
###########
Boot into Windows, and wait several minutes whilst seemingly every app
in the system tries to simultaneously download updates, the tonne of
mysterious "services" all start; and the AV and Spyware scanners do
their startup scans.
Once the system becomes responsive (i.e. enough time to make a cup of
coffee) insert the "HP Deskjet 6900 series" CD, then wait for Autorun
... and wait ... and wait ... then eventually give up, and right-click
on the drive's icon in "My Computer" to select "AutoPlay" ... then wait
some more. That didn't work (despite this disc definitely having an
"autorun.inf"). Oh well...
Give up on Autorun completely, and just run what I assume is the correct
file, called "Setup.exe", and wait some more. Eventually something
starts happening, and I'm greeted by a photo of an empty road
accompanying a "thank you" note and an install button. This is followed
by an install "wizard" that warns me about copyrights; international
treaties; and terrorists (or something).
The next screen is yet another warning, this time about firewalls and AV
blocking the installer (why would they do that, unless it's up to no
good?). Sure enough, hitting the "next" button jolts Outpost firewall
into panic mode, indicating that two components of Acronis Trueimage
have changed (timounter.dll and tishell.dll). WTF? Why is this installer
interfering with a totally unrelated application?
Then I get a screen asking me if I want to automatically check for
updates (oh no ... not *another* update program). At this point I'm
basically just clicking "yes" to everything. Whatever ... just install
the damned printer already.
Finally the install begins with an update check (another firewall
panic), and what the installer claims will be a four-step process. It
briefly "inspects" the system (whatever that means), then gives me a
choice of two install methods - Full or Express (recommended). The least
amount I can install is *200MB* apparently!!! WTF!!! For a *printer
driver*? Gimmie a break. Oh well, I may as well go with "full" (at some
450MB) and be done with it. Don't wanna get short changed, after all.
Then comes the obligatory license agreement, where I have to swear a
blood-oath to sacrifice my first-born to King Herod, or something.
The next bit is far more worrisome, and indeed quite shocking.
Apparently HP want to install some software on my system called "HP
Extended Capabilities", that rather ominously collects information about
*every page* I print and *sends that info to HP* for "marketing
purposes". Good God almighty!
Of course that is not explained fully by the installer (up to that
point) ... I had to go Google for "HP Extended Capabilities" to discover
the grim truth.
This is all the installer told me:
[quote]
This software can help you receive additional benefits only available to
HP customers.
Once this software is installed, you will have an opportunity to
participate in market research designed to improve HP products and
experiences. An invitation will appear on your screen in a few weeks and
you can choose whether or not to participate at that time.
Customers who do a lot of printing may also receive an invitation to
participate in programs with benefits such as special offers, awards and
enhanced technical support.
[quote]
This is what I discovered:
[quote]
More Information
The shared information is dependant upon which HP product has been
installed. In general, this information includes:
. number of pages printed
. print mode, media, and text vs. graphics
. install date
. file type and location
. ink or toner use and brand
. product serial number and IP address
. product model
. amount of memory
. additional technical information that varies by product
[...]
Participation Requirements
Participation requires Internet access and approval for HP to receive HP
usage information. This information will be sent to a HP entity that may
be located overseas and will be retained for a period of up to five
years from the date of the last information sharing session, unless you
request deletion of your data.
If approval is given, monthly sharing will occur automatically when
connected, with almost no impact to your computer and Internet
connection performance.
[/quote]
Needless to say, I responded with a definite "no". Someone should
contact HP and tell them to include a "fsck off" button too.
Next I have to decide /where/ to install the software because, unlike
real operating systems, Windows lets ordinary users install crap in
arbitrary locations all over the filesystem. I also unchecked the box
that asks me if I want to dump yet another icon on my desktop.
*Finally* it starts installing files. It looks like it's going to be a
while, so I'm tempted to go get another coffee (assuming there's any
left after all this), but just as I'm about to leave the room, the
installer asks me yet another question - "Choose how you will connect
your device to this computer".
I should also point out, that Windows installers are rather less than
optimal, and frankly just weird in their methodology. I'm looking at the
install Wizard, which has a progress bar with specific file info running
alongside, and yet during the process it still needs to pop up external
progress bars for individual components, and even a DOS box for one
component called "hpzsetup.exe". This is rather messy; not very
professional; and not exactly conducive to the user easily following
what's going on (typically these external boxes appear then disappear
too quickly to actually see what they're up to). Mostly it just reminds
me of Spyware behaviour:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5MVfOTtD6B0
I was also disturbed to notice that (once again) this Wizard wanted to
"inspect" the system, which apparently means trawling through the
registry looking at unrelated software settings. More Spyware behaviour.
Anyway, back to the show. I select connect "through the network", since
this is a so-called workgroup printer with a built-in print server, and
again my firewall yells about an attempted UDP connection to port 427,
which is some auto-discovery service called "Service Location Protocol".
Fair enough. So for the umpteenth time I hit the "whatever" button and
it finally finds the printer, and asks me if this is the "right one". I
click the "For the love of God please just install this printer" button,
and once *again* my firewall informs me that another unrelated
application's components have changed, this time "dopuslib.dll" from
Directory Opus.
At this point the Wizard's progress is still only at 9%, and that's as
far as it's going to get apparently, because it b0rks with the message
"The installation was not successful"; generates some log files; reports
the error to HP; suggests I unplug all my USB devices (I don't have any
plugged in); undoes everything it's done so far; then quits.
Oh, and apparently I still have to reboot anyway, even though it failed
to install.
Wonderful.
Take 2: This time I just *disable* the firewall, thus handily allowing
my PC to be transformed into a zombie node for a spam botnet, and begin
the process all over again, including the obligatory reboot.
This time I get past the "installing device" section, and proceed
straight to the spammy "buy lots of stuff from HP" adverts that cycle
through the Wizard, as it copies 450MB of junk to my hard drive (and
pops up some more external progress bars for good measure).
Progress is excruciatingly slow, and bear in mind this is a 3.6GHz P4
with 2GB of dual-channel memory, and a SATA RAID. I contemplate going
down the pub for an hour, but the fear of missing yet more stupid
questions from the Wizard keeps me glued to my seat. I doze off for a
few minutes, and when I wake up the installer is still only at 62%, so I
just go back to sleep.
Some time later I wake up to be greeted by a "Congratulations!" message.
Yes, they may well use an exclamation point, after all that time and effort.
I'm then greeted by the biggest spinning hour glass I've ever seen (this
thing is *huge*) and the offer to "register my product" - i.e. sign up
for lots of spam. Also, apparently signing up entitles me to 50 free
prints with an online printing service called SnapFish. Er ... why would
someone who's just bought a printer want to then waste time (and
eventually money) on an online printing service? Isn't the whole point
of having my own printer that I can do that myself??? How bizarre. Oh
well, I guess it must've seemed like a good idea at the time ... to some
marketing Dilbert.
So anyway, now I'm left with a working printer driver, 450MB of
Shovelware, and an extremely basic looking printer status utility that I
don't need anyway because I can just point any Web browser at the
printer's IP and connect to the print server's Web interface.
Total time: 35 minutes ++ (I dozed off)
Total software installed: 450MB.
So much for the /Windows/ XPerience...
#########
# Linux #
#########
From the Gnome menu: System -> Administration -> Printing
Type root password (of course, since I am changing system settings).
Click the "New Printer" button, then select the "HP JetDirect" protocol.
Type in the IP number [1] (shown in my router's "connected devices"
page), and the port number (already correctly set at 9100).
Select the printer make ("HP" is preselected) and model ("Deskjet 6940"
is also preselected).
Give it a common name, description and location (for information
purposes only).
Done.
Total time: 15 seconds.
Total software installed: zero.
Yeah ... Linux printing is so "difficult".
Note: CUPS would have found the printer automatically if I'd enabled
UPnP on the router, but I've disabled it for security reasons:
http://www.informationweek.com/news/personal_tech/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=205800419
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| 'When it comes to knowledge, "ownership" just doesn't make sense'
| ~ Cory Doctorow, The Guardian. http://tinyurl.com/22bgx8
`----
Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.23.8-63.fc8
02:13:49 up 146 days, 22:49, 5 users, load average: 0.15, 0.20, 0.18
peterwn
> My Epson printer kicked the bucket a few days ago (RIP) so I headed off
> to Amazon UK, and picked the colour inkjet with the most customer votes,
> an HP Deskjet 6940.
>
In an ideal world, the packaging would show a penguin and the words
'Linux compatible', but this would upset Bill Gates so it does not
happen. Next best thing is to check the printer you propose to buy in
the Linux compatibility lists.
Now I suspect that DFS buys printers shown to be incompatible so he
can do a moan about Linux here.
AZ Nomad
...
>So anyway, now I'm left with a working printer driver, 450MB of
>Shovelware, and an extremely basic looking printer status utility that I
>don't need anyway because I can just point any Web browser at the
It gets better. If you move your computer and plug the printer into a different
USB port, the printer has to reinstall itself and the printer driver will copy
all that crap. Where it is copying it from and where it is copying it to, I
have know idea.
Absolutely insane. I won't use HP printers with windows any more.
Their linux printing and imaging software is simple and takes about two minutes
to install. It handles everything on my hp8200 including cartridge
status and maintenance, as well as the camera card reader.
The Ghost In The Machine
<use...@slated.org>
wrote
on Fri, 16 May 2008 02:14:18 +0100
<co3vf5-...@sky.matrix>:
> My Epson printer kicked the bucket a few days ago (RIP) so I headed off
> to Amazon UK, and picked the colour inkjet with the most customer votes,
> an HP Deskjet 6940.
>
> It arrived yesterday, and I set it up in a few minutes (the hardware,
> anyway). The hardest part was inserting the cartridges (I'd heard the
> retaining clips break easily if you're not careful). What follows is a
> comparison of setting up this printer on both Windows and Linux:
>
>
> ###########
> # Windows #
> ###########
>
> Boot into Windows, and wait several minutes whilst seemingly every app
> in the system tries to simultaneously download updates, the tonne of
> mysterious "services" all start; and the AV and Spyware scanners do
> their startup scans.
>
> Once the system becomes responsive (i.e. enough time to make a cup of
> coffee) insert the "HP Deskjet 6900 series" CD, then wait for Autorun
[snip painful experience for brevity]
> Total time: 35 minutes ++ (I dozed off)
> Total software installed: 450MB.
(!!)
>
> So much for the /Windows/ XPerience...
>
>
> #########
> # Linux #
> #########
>
> From the Gnome menu: System -> Administration -> Printing
>
> Type root password (of course, since I am changing system settings).
>
> Click the "New Printer" button, then select the "HP JetDirect" protocol.
> Type in the IP number [1] (shown in my router's "connected devices"
> page), and the port number (already correctly set at 9100).
>
> Select the printer make ("HP" is preselected) and model ("Deskjet 6940"
> is also preselected).
>
> Give it a common name, description and location (for information
> purposes only).
>
> Done.
>
> Total time: 15 seconds.
> Total software installed: zero.
>
> Yeah ... Linux printing is so "difficult".
>
>
> Note: CUPS would have found the printer automatically if I'd enabled
> UPnP on the router, but I've disabled it for security reasons:
>
> http://www.informationweek.com/news/personal_tech/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=205800419
>
How ready is Linux, really? Let us count the ways...
Gods...how ready is *Windows*? :-) Or perhaps HP, which
either doesn't have a clue or is constrained by a bunch
of marketing types (or OEM contractual restrictions).
Gotta love the "yeah, I want to report my printing experience
to HP", though in all fairness that only tells them how much
one prints, as opposed to *what*. But what the heck are they
going to do with that data? What the heck were they thinking???
Do they think someone's going to print a terrorist manual or
something?
Ow, my brain hurts.
The only reason Linux isn't simpler here is presumably
because you've disabled UPnP autodetection, and that's not
a big deal in my book -- though the Gnome pulldown is new
to me (which tells you how often I print :-) ).
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
/dev/signature: Resource temporarily unavailable
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
DFS
> Now I suspect that DFS buys printers shown to be incompatible so he
> can do a moan about Linux here.
The Windows install program for my HP Photosmart 1215 sucks so bad that I
won't buy another HP printer.
Homer
> Gotta love the "yeah, I want to report my printing experience to HP",
> though in all fairness that only tells them how much one prints, as
> opposed to *what*.
Actually, it does:
[quote]
The shared information is dependant upon which HP product has been
installed. In general, this information includes:
[...]
. file type and location
[/quote]
"Location" presumably means path; one may assume the /full/ path,
including the file's name.
> But what the heck are they going to do with that data?
One minute you're printing "puppy.jpg"; the next minute you get an
"exclusive offer" for Kibbles ... or more likely Viagra from a Russian
Pharma spammer. Hey, dawgies need lovin' too.
> The only reason Linux isn't simpler here is presumably because you've
> disabled UPnP autodetection
Oh believe me, the Linux install /was/ simpler ... *far* simpler, UPnP
or no.
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| 'When it comes to knowledge, "ownership" just doesn't make sense'
| ~ Cory Doctorow, The Guardian. http://tinyurl.com/22bgx8
`----
Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.23.8-63.fc8
04:04:13 up 147 days, 40 min, 6 users, load average: 0.09, 0.23, 0.31
Andrew Halliwell
So, you're actually admitting...
Not only should the boxes have a penguin sticker on saying "linux
compatible"... But the penguin should be stamping on the windows logo with
an additional comment "We recommend linux... It's just better with this
printer"?
--
| spi...@freenet.co,uk | "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
| Andrew Halliwell BSc | |
| in | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
| Computer Science | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
Roy Schestowitz
Hash: SHA1
____/ Homer on Friday 16 May 2008 04:04 : \____
> Verily I say unto thee, that The Ghost In The Machine spake thusly:
>
>> Gotta love the "yeah, I want to report my printing experience to HP",
>> though in all fairness that only tells them how much one prints, as
>> opposed to *what*.
>
> Actually, it does:
>
> [quote]
> The shared information is dependant upon which HP product has been
> installed. In general, this information includes:
> [...]
> . file type and location
> [/quote]
>
> "Location" presumably means path; one may assume the /full/ path,
> including the file's name.
>
>> But what the heck are they going to do with that data?
>
> One minute you're printing "puppy.jpg"; the next minute you get an
> "exclusive offer" for Kibbles ... or more likely Viagra from a Russian
> Pharma spammer. Hey, dawgies need lovin' too.
>
>> The only reason Linux isn't simpler here is presumably because you've
>> disabled UPnP autodetection
>
> Oh believe me, the Linux install /was/ simpler ... *far* simpler, UPnP
> or no.
I can't comment about Windows, but setting up my scanners and printers in
GNU/Linux with GNOME and KDE has been a simple GUI thing. No need for
downloads or disks.
When people have problems doing this with Windows they just phone up some
helpdesk, so there's no trail of evidence on the Web (WinTroll in COLA like
carbon-copying online 'helpdesk logs' that are available for the public to
see, but they just re-report *incidents*, not recurring patterns or anything
whose nature is statistical).
SUSE (before the deal) made everything simple too. That was back in KDE 3.1
says (2002-3). It probably depends a lot on the vendor at the end, but I never
had any issues. The same goes for Webcams.
Had Linux not been easy, Microsoft wouldn't need to have so many Munchkins
around spreading rumours about and discrediting Linux. Or even *faking*
problems (Gary M Stewart style).
Hardware support?
Works fine for me. No problem in years.
- --
~~ Best of wishes
"It just tells you how desperate Microsoft is for a competitor that they’re
holding up a software box produced by 100 guys in the hills of North Carolina.
Who are they trying to kid?"
--Robert Young, CEO of Red Hat
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Hadron
Sure it does Roy.
FWIW, NOW it works well for me. I have had serious issues with Ubuntu
and CUPS in the past though as a result of them closing off administer
web access to CUPS. It is well documented.
--
This year with the release of XP, they are actually behind. The end days
are near for the BIOS reading inferior OS. It is inevitable.
comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they put the lunacy in advocacy
Nicola Ullman
>
> I can't comment about Windows, but setting up my scanners and printers in
> GNU/Linux with GNOME and KDE has been a simple GUI thing. No need for
> downloads or disks.
Of course you can comment on Microsoft Windows.
<quote>
* Education: 2000-2003: B.Sc. Software Engineering (1st); 2003-2006: Ph.D. Medical Biophysics.
* Employment: STARS, ISBE, Manchester Computing, Computer Science, Daniel Sorogon, Atid Computers...
* Programming Languages: C/C++, Java, Visual Basic, MATLAB, Pascal, PHP, Prolog, ML, RISC ASM.
* Operating Systems: UNIX/Linux (most variants), Windows 3x/95/98/2000/ME/NT/XP, Mac OS 9/10+, DOS, Palm OS.
</quote>
>
> When people have problems doing this with Windows they just phone up some
> helpdesk, so there's no trail of evidence on the Web (WinTroll in COLA like
> carbon-copying online 'helpdesk logs' that are available for the public to
> see, but they just re-report *incidents*, not recurring patterns or anything
> whose nature is statistical).
Let's see just /one/ example, Liar.
>
> SUSE (before the deal) made everything simple too. That was back in KDE 3.1
> says (2002-3). It probably depends a lot on the vendor at the end, but I never
> had any issues. The same goes for Webcams.
>
> Had Linux not been easy, Microsoft wouldn't need to have so many Munchkins
> around spreading rumours about and discrediting Linux. Or even *faking*
> problems (Gary M Stewart style).
>
> Hardware support?
>
> Works fine for me. No problem in years.
Not only does Linux provide great hardware support, it's secure as hell
too, right Roy?
>
>
> - --
> ~~ Best of wishes
>
> "It just tells you how desperate Microsoft is for a competitor that they’re
> holding up a software box produced by 100 guys in the hills of North Carolina.
> Who are they trying to kid?"
>
> --Robert Young, CEO of Red Hat
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Fix your sig, you whiney lying poofter.
William Poaster
> DFS <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote:
>> peterwn wrote:
>>
>>> Now I suspect that DFS buys printers shown to be incompatible so he can
>>> do a moan about Linux here.
>>
>> The Windows install program for my HP Photosmart 1215 sucks so bad that
>> I won't buy another HP printer.
>
> So, you're actually admitting...
> Not only should the boxes have a penguin sticker on saying "linux
> compatible"... But the penguin should be stamping on the windows logo with
> an additional comment "We recommend linux... It's just better with this
> printer"?
Interesting to note that DooFu$ doesn't blame Windows, but says he "won't
buy another HP printer". I wonder what he *would* have blamed, had the
hardware not worked under Linux? Oh, wait...in true wintroll fashion he
would have blamed *Linux* of *course*!
--
Mandriva 2008.1 64-bit.
This message was sent from a
computer which is guaranteed
100% free of the M$ Windoze virus.
AZ Nomad
>When people have problems doing this with Windows they just phone up some
>helpdesk, so there's no trail of evidence on the Web (WinTroll in COLA like
get connected to an incompetant overseas operator who tells them that any
but the latest of version of windows is unsupported. Then to reboot
their machine, cycle the power, and finally to reinstall the operating
system.
Hadron
Possibly you useless COLA morons do this which is why you hate Windows
so much. The more competent users do what Linux users do - get on line
somehow and find a simple solution.
Caveat : I do think that Linux is much more liable to be fixed than
Windows in some cases - but you do have to be Linux smart to do it. Only
in COLA do all these imaginary systems of doom occur. Only in COLA do
people know something that 93% of the worlds desktop users dont.
Roy Schestowitz
Hash: SHA1
Gary M Stewart wrote nonsense.
<snip>
*plonk* (all posts from motzarella.org).
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chrisv
>Oh believe me, the Linux install /was/ simpler ... *far* simpler, UPnP
>or no.
What would "Hadron" say?
--
"LOL. You are quite mad." - "True Linux advocate" Hadron Quark, in
response to the suggestion that "Linux itself /is/ ready for the
masses. In some ways more so than Windows."
Nicola Ullman
I told you to fix your sig bitch.
Moshe Goldfarb
> Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> writes:
>> Hardware support?
>>
>> Works fine for me. No problem in years.
>
> Sure it does Roy.
>
> FWIW, NOW it works well for me. I have had serious issues with Ubuntu
> and CUPS in the past though as a result of them closing off administer
> web access to CUPS. It is well documented.
Presenting facts to Roy Schestowitz is totally useless.
He can't deal with the truth so he makes up his own *truth* in an attempt
to rewrite history.
--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/
Moshe Goldfarb
Roy Schestowitz is a complete hypocrite and phony.
He is a "Van Wilder" living legend of a career student who hides behind
academia because he is afraid or unable to function in the real world.
If he was a true Linux advocate he would not be marketing his Windows
skills but like most Linux *advocates* he is a hypocrite.
The proof is right in front of the Linux loons but they refuse to see it.
BTW you can add thief and liar to the list of Roy Schestowitz's traits.
Lisa Cottmann
http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2008/01/moshe-goldfarb-troll.html
http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2007/01/flatfish-troll.html
Traits:
* Nym shifting (see below)
* Self confessed thief and proud of it
* Homophobic
* Racist
* Habitual liar
* Frequently cross posts replies to other non-Linux related newsgroups
* Frequently cross posts articles originally not posted to COLA
Linonut
> Finally the install begins with an update check (another firewall
> panic), and what the installer claims will be a four-step process. It
> briefly "inspects" the system (whatever that means), then gives me a
> choice of two install methods - Full or Express (recommended). The least
> amount I can install is *200MB* apparently!!! WTF!!! For a *printer
> driver*? Gimmie a break. Oh well, I may as well go with "full" (at some
> 450MB) and be done with it. Don't wanna get short changed, after all.
In-fscking-credible!
> [quote]
> This software can help you receive additional benefits only available to
> HP customers.
With friends like HP, who needs enemas?
> Needless to say, I responded with a definite "no". Someone should
> contact HP and tell them to include a "fsck off" button too.
> Next I have to decide /where/ to install the software because, unlike
> real operating systems, Windows lets ordinary users install crap in
> arbitrary locations all over the filesystem. I also unchecked the box
> that asks me if I want to dump yet another icon on my desktop.
I love an icon-free desktop.
> *Finally* it starts installing files. It looks like it's going to be a
> while, so I'm tempted to go get another coffee (assuming there's any
> left after all this), but just as I'm about to leave the room, the
> installer asks me yet another question - "Choose how you will connect
> your device to this computer".
What? I thought the installer had "inspected" your system! Did it
learn /nothing/ while "inspecting" your system?
> Total time: 35 minutes ++ (I dozed off)
> Total software installed: 450MB.
>
> So much for the /Windows/ XPerience...
Oh, Vista is much better.
> #########
> # Linux #
> #########
>
> From the Gnome menu: System -> Administration -> Printing
>
> Total time: 15 seconds.
> Total software installed: zero.
Well, that's not quite true, since cups installs a lot of stuff.
> Yeah ... Linux printing is so "difficult".
>
> Note: CUPS would have found the printer automatically if I'd enabled
> UPnP on the router, but I've disabled it for security reasons:
Your Windows experience is a bit unusual, even for Windows crapware,
Homer.
Anyway, my daughter's home now, using her Windows box (a piece of shit
from DELL that now has /three/ vertical colored lines in the display,
how's that for hi kwality hardware?) She's connected to our little
Linksys wireless router, and she loses her connection. I told her to
disable+enable the link, that usually fixes things. This time, it
didn't. I recommended a reboot. However, she got distracted, and later
it "came back". In the meantime, my Linux laptop had a continuous
wireless connection.
The same night, she says her boyfriends computer was "acting up". I
look at it, and, for everything he does on it, it pops up a message
saying the "feature needs the MS Office CD" for installing the feature.
Why this started popping up, who knows? Probably due to a "helpful"
Microsoft "update" to "improve" the Windows eXPerience.
So I look at the installed programs, and this system has:
Frontpage
Outlook with Client Management
MS Office 2003 Professional
MS Office 2003 Small Business
Since the last one was what caused the messages, just had him remove
that crapware.
I also learned just how cavalier the average person is about installing
unpurchased software. Here I am, worrying about once attempting to use
Partition Magic, and we have people who would rather copy Office than
try OpenOffice. (It wasn't the boyfriend, by the way, as the computer
was a "hand-me-down".)
Bill Gates had it right. Let them pirate it, and get "addicted" to it.
Even governments will succumb -- witness the OOXML debacle.
--
In this business, by the time you realize you're in trouble, it's too late
to save yourself. Unless you're running scared all the time, you're gone.
-- Bill Gates
Linonut
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 09:58:10 +0100, Andrew Halliwell wrote:
>
>> DFS <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote:
>>> peterwn wrote:
>>>
>>>> Now I suspect that DFS buys printers shown to be incompatible so he can
>>>> do a moan about Linux here.
>>>
>>> The Windows install program for my HP Photosmart 1215 sucks so bad that
>>> I won't buy another HP printer.
>>
>> So, you're actually admitting...
>> Not only should the boxes have a penguin sticker on saying "linux
>> compatible"... But the penguin should be stamping on the windows logo with
>> an additional comment "We recommend linux... It's just better with this
>> printer"?
>
> Interesting to note that DooFu$ doesn't blame Windows, but says he "won't
> buy another HP printer". I wonder what he *would* have blamed, had the
> hardware not worked under Linux? Oh, wait...in true wintroll fashion he
> would have blamed *Linux* of *course*!
DFS is here solely to propagate nonsense.
Especially since HP printers (at least the pricey ones we buy at work)
work very well, with Linux or Windows.
--
Unfortunately, many programs are so big that there is no one individual who
really knows all the pieces, and so the amount of code sharing you get isn't
as great. Also, the opportunity to go back and really rewrite something
isn't quite as great, because there's always a new set of features that
you're adding on to the same program.
-- Bill Gates
Moshe Goldfarb
> Possibly you useless COLA morons do this which is why you hate Windows
> so much. The more competent users do what Linux users do - get on line
> somehow and find a simple solution.
>
> Caveat : I do think that Linux is much more liable to be fixed than
> Windows in some cases - but you do have to be Linux smart to do it. Only
> in COLA do all these imaginary systems of doom occur. Only in COLA do
> people know something that 93% of the worlds desktop users dont.
COLA suffers from "Kelsey Syndrome".
I wouldn't let a Windows machine anywhere near these boobs.
BTW Eric Raymond had a wonderful article on the *joy* of Linux printing and
while things have improved since he wrote it, understand that the Linux
boobs have been claiming printing is easier under Linux for many years.
It is maybe in only one case, a PostScript based printer.
That one I will concede, maybe.
"I've just gone through the experience of trying to configure CUPS, the
Common Unix Printing System. It has proved a textbook lesson in why
nontechnical people run screaming from Unix. This is all the more
frustrating because the developers of CUPS have obviously tried hard to
produce an accessible system — but the best intentions and effort have led
to a system which despite its superficial pseudo-friendliness is so
undiscoverable that it might as well have been written in ancient
Sanskrit."
http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cups-horror.html
Moshe Goldfarb
I will never buy another Canon or Lexmark printer.
Samsung, Brother or HP (select models) for me.
Dana Bush
simply lisa
Linonut
It may be a good example of the relative difficulty of writing drivers
for Windows.
On top of that, it also seems to be a good example of the feature-itis
that has driven the Microsoft-driven computer industry for the last
decade-and-a-half.
Say, I wonder if Bill applies the below to his "great" software?
--
We're no longer in the days where everything is super well crafted. But at
the heart of the programs that make it to the top, you'll find that the key
internal code was done by a few people who really know what they were doing.
-- Bill Gates
Linonut
> The Liar Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>
>> I can't comment about Windows, but setting up my scanners and printers in
>> GNU/Linux with GNOME and KDE has been a simple GUI thing. No need for
>> downloads or disks.
>
> Of course you can comment on Microsoft Windows.
>
> <quote>
> * Education: 2000-2003: B.Sc. Software Engineering (1st); 2003-2006: Ph.D. Medical Biophysics.
> * Employment: STARS, ISBE, Manchester Computing, Computer Science, Daniel Sorogon, Atid Computers...
> * Programming Languages: C/C++, Java, Visual Basic, MATLAB, Pascal, PHP, Prolog, ML, RISC ASM.
> * Operating Systems: UNIX/Linux (most variants), Windows 3x/95/98/2000/ME/NT/XP, Mac OS 9/10+, DOS, Palm OS.
> </quote>
Poor "Nicola", thinks that this resume means that Roy has been
installing scanner and printers on Windows.
"Nicola" needs some logic lessons from Tim.
>> When people have problems doing this with Windows they just phone up some
>> helpdesk, so there's no trail of evidence on the Web (WinTroll in COLA like
>> carbon-copying online 'helpdesk logs' that are available for the public to
>> see, but they just re-report *incidents*, not recurring patterns or anything
>> whose nature is statistical).
>
> Let's see just /one/ example, Liar.
>
> Fix your sig, you whiney lying poofter.
Looks like Hadron is still alive and well, I see.
Poor poor Hadron. How can we help you?
--
If you show people the problems and you show people the solutions they will be
moved to act.
-- Bill Gates, At Live8 (2 July 2005) as reported in BBC News (4 July 2005)
Linonut
Who cares? Apart from some minor hardware issues and specialized
commercial applications, GNU/Linux is generally /much better/ than
Windows.
More flexible (by far).
A broader range of tools. (Even if some tools are cross-platform).
Easier installers.
Better security.
More stable, generally faster.
If software popularity were based on technical merit, Windows would be a
niche product -- the slow ponderous Lexus SUV preferred by those with
money to burn and no common sense.
--
Be nice to nerds. Chances are you'll end up working for one.
-- Bill Gates
JEDIDIAH
That's funny...
I didn't need no stinking "install program" for my Photosmart.
I just plugged it in and it "just worked". Printing was available
immediately and scanning was available as soon as I installed an
app to scan with (xsane).
--
Apple: Because a large harddrive is for power users.
|||
/ | \
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
JEDIDIAH
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 09:58:10 +0100, Andrew Halliwell wrote:
>
>> DFS <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote:
>>> peterwn wrote:
>>>
>>>> Now I suspect that DFS buys printers shown to be incompatible so he can
>>>> do a moan about Linux here.
>>>
>>> The Windows install program for my HP Photosmart 1215 sucks so bad that
>>> I won't buy another HP printer.
>>
>> So, you're actually admitting...
>> Not only should the boxes have a penguin sticker on saying "linux
>> compatible"... But the penguin should be stamping on the windows logo with
>> an additional comment "We recommend linux... It's just better with this
>> printer"?
>
> Interesting to note that DooFu$ doesn't blame Windows, but says he "won't
...yes that is interesting.
By his own admission Windows has now become the equivalent of Linux
or MacOS where you have to pre-research every hardware purchase to
make sure you won't end up with a brick (or worse).
> buy another HP printer". I wonder what he *would* have blamed, had the
> hardware not worked under Linux? Oh, wait...in true wintroll fashion he
> would have blamed *Linux* of *course*!
>
--
JEDIDIAH
> Roy Schestowitz <newsg...@schestowitz.com> writes:
>
>> ____/ Homer on Friday 16 May 2008 04:04 : \____
>>
>>> Verily I say unto thee, that The Ghost In The Machine spake thusly:
>>>
>
> Sure it does Roy.
>
> FWIW, NOW it works well for me. I have had serious issues with Ubuntu
> and CUPS in the past though as a result of them closing off administer
> web access to CUPS. It is well documented.
What exactly were you unable to do with the desktop config applet?
Shutting off the web admin console is a very sensible thing of Ubuntu
to do. And if you are smart enough to understand the implications of turning
it back on again, doing so manually in Ubuntu should not pose a problem.
Moshe Goldfarb
> Poor "Nicola", thinks that this resume means that Roy Schestowitz has been
> installing scanner and printers on Windows.
Isn't that what a toner monkey does?
Schestowitz works in the computer lab at University of Manchester so he
sounds like a toner monkey to me.
Karen Hill
Ezekiel
caught
"Anonymous Sender" <anon...@remailer.metacolo.com> wrote in message
news:835cda2bee4c40ab...@remailer.metacolo.com...
> Tattoovampire, 48 years old from Bluefield, West Virginia, USA.
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.122.250.55
> ge-0-1-ubr01.bluefield.wv.knox.comcast.net
>
>
>
> FOAD Don
>
>
Don "asshole face" Zeigler is the scumbag spammer. He accidently revealed
his identity.
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/d67f0b53980b9b8d?dmode=source
<quote>
</quote>
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Homer
> * Homer peremptorily fired off this memo:
>> Total time: 15 seconds. Total software installed: zero.
>
> Well, that's not quite true, since cups installs a lot of stuff.
Let me rephrase that ... "total *additional* software installed", and
even CUPS is only 9MB. The Deskjet PPD (essentially the "driver") clocks
in at a whopping 9.3KB. Nonetheless, at the time I connected the
printer, I did not install any software. Everything I needed was already
installed as a default part of the distribution.
> Your Windows experience is a bit unusual, even for Windows crapware,
> Homer.
I don't see it. I see nearly every Windows user I've ever met screaming
with the pain of continuous and insurmountable Windows problems,
interspersed with brief moments where things mysteriously seem to work.
Lately the screaming seems to be getting louder, and not just because
of Vista either ... XP SP3 has contributed significantly to the noise.
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| 'When it comes to knowledge, "ownership" just doesn't make sense'
| ~ Cory Doctorow, The Guardian. http://tinyurl.com/22bgx8
`----
Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.23.8-63.fc8
17:27:27 up 147 days, 14:03, 5 users, load average: 0.01, 0.12, 0.35
Homer
> On 2008-05-16, William Poaster <w...@leafnode.amd64.eu> wrote:
>> Interesting to note that DooFu$ doesn't blame Windows, but says he
>> "won't
>
> ...yes that is interesting.
>
> By his own admission Windows has now become the equivalent of Linux
> or MacOS where you have to pre-research every hardware purchase to
> make sure you won't end up with a brick (or worse).
Certainly that's true of Vista. In fact Vista is today, more or less
where Linux was a few years ago. That's "progress", Microsoft-style.
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| 'When it comes to knowledge, "ownership" just doesn't make sense'
| ~ Cory Doctorow, The Guardian. http://tinyurl.com/22bgx8
`----
Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.23.8-63.fc8
17:35:10 up 147 days, 14:11, 5 users, load average: 0.12, 0.11, 0.25
JEDIDIAH
> * William Poaster peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 09:58:10 +0100, Andrew Halliwell wrote:
>>
>>> DFS <nospam@dfs_.com> wrote:
>> buy another HP printer". I wonder what he *would* have blamed, had the
>> hardware not worked under Linux? Oh, wait...in true wintroll fashion he
>> would have blamed *Linux* of *course*!
>
> DFS is here solely to propagate nonsense.
HP has been my default choice for Linux printing since 1996.
The fact that they had a sort of "poor man's postscript" did
quite a lot to contribute for that. A lot of the other brands
that do very well with Linux do well because of support for
this standard-ish printer language.
It's like modems and the Hayes command set...
>
> Especially since HP printers (at least the pricey ones we buy at work)
> work very well, with Linux or Windows.
>
--
Truth is irrelevant as long as the predictions are good. |||
Homer
> I didn't need no stinking "install program" for my Photosmart.
>
> I just plugged it in and it "just worked". Printing was available
> immediately and scanning was available as soon as I installed an app
> to scan with (xsane).
Yes, I should have added that if I'd connected the printer via USB, then
it would also have "just worked", just like my Epson did. Nothing to
install; nothing to configure; not even a pop-up notification ... it
would just "be there" when I went to print something. However, even the
network setup was easy enough.
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| 'When it comes to knowledge, "ownership" just doesn't make sense'
| ~ Cory Doctorow, The Guardian. http://tinyurl.com/22bgx8
`----
Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.23.8-63.fc8
17:42:33 up 147 days, 14:18, 5 users, load average: 0.04, 0.13, 0.20
AZ Nomad
>Verily I say unto thee, that JEDIDIAH spake thusly:
>> On 2008-05-16, William Poaster <w...@leafnode.amd64.eu> wrote:
>>> Interesting to note that DooFu$ doesn't blame Windows, but says he
>>> "won't
>>
>> ...yes that is interesting.
>>
>> By his own admission Windows has now become the equivalent of Linux
>> or MacOS where you have to pre-research every hardware purchase to
>> make sure you won't end up with a brick (or worse).
>Certainly that's true of Vista. In fact Vista is today, more or less
>where Linux was a few years ago. That's "progress", Microsoft-style.
Linux has never required supercomputer performance just to open a fucking
desktop window.
Linux doesn't dump support for products just because they're four years old.
I still have perfect support for products that only came with windows 98
windows software, that have never run with XP, and will certainly never ever
work under vista. When I dump a product, it is my decision, not some
software vendor.
I might have problem getting linux support for a scanner I buy at walmart,
but I can certainly find superb support for superb scanners that have been
out for 2-3 years.
Homer
> Linux doesn't dump support for products just because they're four
> years old.
Just out of curiosity, I wonder if any hardware /ever/ gets dropped from
the Linux kernel?
Like you, I have some pretty ancient hardware that still just works
under Linux, in fact some of that hardware only /ever/ worked properly
under Linux.
Two examples that come to mind are an old Compelson Labs SIM card reader
(PCMCIA) and the Mk1 Catweasel controller (ISA). The former had Windows
drivers that I just could not get to work at all, and the latter only
worked reading FAT formatted drives (it was supposed to be able to read
several different formats, including Apple HFS and Amiga OFS/FFS).
I still have a Ditto Max Pro tape drive lying around somewhere too, with
its custom floppy-ide controller that I never could get working properly
in Windows (the device always has a yellow exclamation mark next to it
in the device manager). Worked fine under Linux with tar and BRU though.
On the flipside, Windows also has a problem with /new/ hardware, and
again - I'm not just talking about Vista, although it /is/ the prime
example of poor hardware support. Installing XP on an ICHx SATA RAID
system is something I never want to experience again.
--
K.
http://slated.org
.----
| 'When it comes to knowledge, "ownership" just doesn't make sense'
| ~ Cory Doctorow, The Guardian. http://tinyurl.com/22bgx8
`----
Fedora release 8 (Werewolf) on sky, running kernel 2.6.23.8-63.fc8
20:36:04 up 147 days, 17:11, 6 users, load average: 0.22, 0.19, 0.18
DFS
> DFS is here solely to propagate nonsense.
>
> Especially since HP printers (at least the pricey ones we buy at work)
> work very well, with Linux or Windows.
Learn to read, hypocrite. I didn't say the printer didn't work well - I
said the installer sucked.
Sinister Midget
> DFS is here solely to propagate nonsense.
>
> Especially since HP printers (at least the pricey ones we buy at work)
> work very well, with Linux or Windows.
If DuFuS had troubles with an HP, he really /is/ a doofus! I never even
had trouble with HP on Macs running OS 9. And that OS didn't like
anything.
--
Windows: The OS that forces you to delete things to make them work.
Roy Schestowitz
> Verily I say unto thee, that Linonut spake thusly:
>> * Homer peremptorily fired off this memo:
>
>>> Total time: 15 seconds. Total software installed: zero.
>>
>> Well, that's not quite true, since cups installs a lot of stuff.
>
> Let me rephrase that ... "total *additional* software installed", and
> even CUPS is only 9MB. The Deskjet PPD (essentially the "driver") clocks
> in at a whopping 9.3KB. Nonetheless, at the time I connected the
> printer, I did not install any software. Everything I needed was already
> installed as a default part of the distribution.
>
>> Your Windows experience is a bit unusual, even for Windows crapware,
>> Homer.
>
> I don't see it. I see nearly every Windows user I've ever met screaming
> with the pain of continuous and insurmountable Windows problems,
> interspersed with brief moments where things mysteriously seem to work.
> Lately the screaming seems to be getting louder, and not just because
> of Vista either ... XP SP3 has contributed significantly to the noise.
Not to worry. Ballmer promised a release every 2 years, so the Will Fix
Everything Release of Windows (maybe 7apourware) should be RTMed some time in
November this years. Oh wait...
http://ethics.csc.ncsu.edu/commerce/anticompetitive/vaporware/
Whao.
Ballmer: Vista Is 'a Work in Progress'
,----[ Quote ]
| As PC users clamor for Microsoft to continue to support Windows XP, company
| CEO Steve Ballmer called the Vista OS "a work in progress" at an annual
| Seattle event on Thursday.
`----
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/144773/ballmer_vista_is_a_work_in_progress.html
Whao! Hold on a second. You mean version /7avpourware/, right Ballmer? You said
7avpourware should be ready to succeed Vista within months.
Ah well... I guess disinformation is just how Microsoft does business. Later on
they wonder why people view them as scum...
--
~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | "Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder"
http://Schestowitz.com | Open Prospects | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Tasks: 154 total, 1 running, 153 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine
Hadron
Can anyone tell me what the hell Liarnut is going on about?
--
I really think XP is going to be a flop. Between the glut of hardware out
there (and slowing down of purchasing), and the fact that W2K is
sufficient for so many casual users.... I just don't see it taking off.
comp.os.linux.advocacy - where they put the lunacy in advocacy
Moshe Goldfarb
I think Liarnut is drinking again.
Hans Kimm
http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2008/01/moshe-goldfarb-troll.html
http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2007/01/flatfish-troll.html
Traits:
* Nym shifting (see below)
* Self confessed thief and proud of it
* Homophobic
* Racist
* Habitual liar
* Frequently cross posts replies to other non-Linux related newsgroups
* Frequently cross posts articles originally not posted to COLA
--
! Don Zeigler