Anonymous MSFT developer admits Linux is faster than Windows

[Chris Ahlstrom]

Or, "How Many Boxes Will It Sell?"

http://www.zdnet.com/anonymous-msft-developer-admits-linux-is-faster-than-windows-7000015236/

It's not that Windows developers don't want to improve their
operating system's performance, the problem is that Microsoft's
software development culture discourages improvements. The programmer
wrote:

Granted, occasionally one sees naive people try to make things
better. These people almost always fail. We can and do improve
performance for specific scenarios that people with the ability to
allocate resources believe impact business goals, but this work is
Sisyphean. There's no formal or informal program of systemic
performance improvement. We started caring about security because
pre-SP3 Windows XP was an existential threat to the business. Our
low performance is not an existential threat to the business.

--
The next generation of interesting software will be done on the Macintosh,
not the IBM PC.
-- Bill Gates, BusinessWeek, 26 November 1984

[GreyCloud]

On 5/12/2013 1:04 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Or, "How Many Boxes Will It Sell?"
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/anonymous-msft-developer-admits-linux-is-faster-than-windows-7000015236/
>
> It's not that Windows developers don't want to improve their
> operating system's performance, the problem is that Microsoft's
> software development culture discourages improvements. The programmer
> wrote:
>
> Granted, occasionally one sees naive people try to make things
> better. These people almost always fail. We can and do improve
> performance for specific scenarios that people with the ability to
> allocate resources believe impact business goals, but this work is
> Sisyphean. There's no formal or informal program of systemic
> performance improvement. We started caring about security because
> pre-SP3 Windows XP was an existential threat to the business. Our
> low performance is not an existential threat to the business.
>

I've never seen the screen that this website shows.
An anonymous somebody that no one knows about. This is proof??
You gotta be kidding.

[Peter Köhlmann]

Feel free to disprove what he has written

[Hadron]

Chris Ahlstrom <OFee...@teleworm.us> writes:

> Or, "How Many Boxes Will It Sell?"
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/anonymous-msft-developer-admits-linux-is-faster-than-windows-7000015236/
>
> It's not that Windows developers don't want to improve their
> operating system's performance, the problem is that Microsoft's
> software development culture discourages improvements. The programmer
> wrote:
>
> Granted, occasionally one sees naive people try to make things
> better. These people almost always fail. We can and do improve
> performance for specific scenarios that people with the ability to
> allocate resources believe impact business goals, but this work is
> Sisyphean. There's no formal or informal program of systemic
> performance improvement. We started caring about security because
> pre-SP3 Windows XP was an existential threat to the business. Our
> low performance is not an existential threat to the business.

Have you told your customers that license the closed source Windows only
SW you QA for a living yet Creepy?


--
A certain COLA "advocate" faking his user-agent in order to pretend to be a Linux
user: User-Agent: Outlook 5.5 (WinNT 5.0), User-Agent: slrn/0.9.8.0
(Linux), Message-ID: <wPGdnd3NnOM...@comcast.com>

[GreyCloud]

Feel free to prove that he is a windows developer hired by Microsoft.
From what I see, there is no proof... like what part of anonymous do
you not understand?

[Peter Köhlmann]

GreyCloud wrote:

I see that you are very willing to discount everything which is against your
beliefs. No matter how probable or improbable.

And, that you are (naturally) totally incapable to understand the article.
You simply are too stupid

[Jeff-Relf.Me]

Microsoft has lost talent, it can't maintain its code;
and it can't compete with its prior self.

Too often, so⋅called "upgrades" are really downgrades;
e.g. Visual Studio 2012 has no "macros", no VBA record and play.

While I prefer Windows 8, many SMART people prefer Windows XP.
I use Office 2007 and see no reason to "upgrade".

The article at the start of this thread is spot on.
Well done Chris⋅Ahlstrom !

[Chris Ahlstrom]

After swilling some grog, Peter Köhlmann belched this bit o' wisdom:

> GreyCloud wrote:
>
>> Feel free to prove that he is a windows developer hired by Microsoft.
>> From what I see, there is no proof... like what part of anonymous do
>> you not understand?
>
> I see that you are very willing to discount everything which is against your
> beliefs. No matter how probable or improbable.
>
> And, that you are (naturally) totally incapable to understand the article.
> You simply are too stupid

He's also ignoring the closer-to-the-source article I referenced in a
related thread. Apparently there was a hash calculation that Microsoft
developer used as "proof", but then requested that the copy of his post
redact the hash value.

In that article, he recants a bit on the sarcasm, and tries to
back-pedal a little.

Now, it is our turn to demand proof... that GreyCloud is the real
GreyCloud, and that he has a real brain.

--
If you don't know what you need Windows NT for, you don't need it.
-- Bill Gates

[Snit]

On 5/12/13 5:29 PM, in article kmpbtb$edo$1...@dont-email.me, "Chris Ahlstrom"
<OFee...@teleworm.us> wrote:

> After swilling some grog, Peter K�hlmann belched this bit o' wisdom:

>
>> GreyCloud wrote:
>>
>>> Feel free to prove that he is a windows developer hired by Microsoft.
>>> From what I see, there is no proof... like what part of anonymous do
>>> you not understand?
>>
>> I see that you are very willing to discount everything which is against your
>> beliefs. No matter how probable or improbable.
>>
>> And, that you are (naturally) totally incapable to understand the article.
>> You simply are too stupid
>
> He's also ignoring the closer-to-the-source article I referenced in a
> related thread. Apparently there was a hash calculation that Microsoft
> developer used as "proof", but then requested that the copy of his post
> redact the hash value.
>
> In that article, he recants a bit on the sarcasm, and tries to
> back-pedal a little.
>
> Now, it is our turn to demand proof... that GreyCloud is the real
> GreyCloud, and that he has a real brain.

If you are suggesting that GreyCloud is not himself it is up to you to offer
evidence. It is not up to him to prove your accusation wrong.

There is, of course, no basis for this accusation. It is simply
herd-wanking. It is useless. It is unsupportable.

But you will try to turn things around and say it is true unless he jumps
through hoops you set up for him. Insane.


--
Proof Mark Bilk's http://cosmicpenguin.com/911/ is nothing but silly
fiction: <http://bit.ly/Y741mf>.
Using Bilk's own "logic" he posts his lies because the Underground
Marshmallow People pay him to.

<http://bit.ly/19aDAxL>
"Maybe I am that way because people kept telling me I was mentally ill. But
I never was. I just saw monsters. Them." - Mark S. Bilk

[GreyCloud]

Guess logic isn't your strong trait then. Again, what part of anonymous
do you not understand? For anybody knows it could just as well be a
linux shill spreading a load of FUD.

And this is the very same argument you linturds use. So, Guffaw!!!

[GreyCloud]

At least Kohlturd has a pair of balls, something you lack.

What part of anonymous do you not understand, liar?

[GreyCloud]

On 5/12/2013 4:30 PM, Jeff-Relf.Me wrote:
> Microsoft has lost talent, it can't maintain its code;
> and it can't compete with its prior self.
>

Who says they can't maintain their code?

> Too often, so⋅called "upgrades" are really downgrades;
> e.g. Visual Studio 2012 has no "macros", no VBA record and play.
>

Maybe they have a reason to drop it? I wouldn't know.

> While I prefer Windows 8, many SMART people prefer Windows XP.
> I use Office 2007 and see no reason to "upgrade".
>
> The article at the start of this thread is spot on.
> Well done Chris⋅Ahlstrom !
>

No, the article was written by some anonymous wanker, that could very
well be a linux shill doing his usual FUD.

Now find proof that this anonymous blogger actually works for Microsoft.

[Jeff-Relf.Me]

It doesn't matter of that "anonymous blogger" works for Microsoft or not;
either way, he's damn right ! Microsoft can't compete with its prior self.

You ( GreyCloud ) don't use Visual Studio, I take it.
To see why Visual Studio 2012 isn't really an "upgrade", see:

http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio/suggestions/2650757-bring-back-macros

[GreyCloud]

On 5/12/2013 7:13 PM, Jeff-Relf.Me wrote:
> It doesn't matter of that "anonymous blogger" works for Microsoft or not;
> either way, he's damn right ! Microsoft can't compete with its prior self.
>

How do you know?
An anonymous blogger is just that ... anonymous... whoever it may be.
It could also be a linux shill spreading FUD. Could you tell the
difference?

> You ( GreyCloud ) don't use Visual Studio, I take it.

Have you forgotten already?
I do use VS2010 Pro.

> To see why Visual Studio 2012 isn't really an "upgrade", see:
>
> http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio/suggestions/2650757-bring-back-macros
>

To some it may seem to be a slide backward. Do you really use the
macros? I don't. Does OS X or linux have anything like it? No, not
that I know of.

So maybe somebody in MS figured it out and dropped a useless endeavour.
Hard to say for certain.

[Hadron]

GreyCloud <mi...@cumulus.com> writes:

> On 5/12/2013 4:30 PM, Jeff-Relf.Me wrote:
>> Microsoft has lost talent, it can't maintain its code;
>> and it can't compete with its prior self.
>>
>
> Who says they can't maintain their code?
>
>> Too often, so⋅called "upgrades" are really downgrades;
>> e.g. Visual Studio 2012 has no "macros", no VBA record and play.
>>
>
> Maybe they have a reason to drop it? I wouldn't know.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12062515/can-i-record-play-macros-in-visual-studio-2012

[Hadron]

Macros, while useful, were left out for well documented reasons.

Tell you what : stop using VS and use your linux tool chain instead like
Creepy Chris Ahlstrom dreams of doing!

I use emacs with hooks into the gnu tools. You should try it.

[Jeff-Relf.Me]

GreyCloud and Hadron don't know what I'm talking about.

The post that started the "Bring back Macros" thread
got 1,771 thumbs up ( including 3 from me ); see:

http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio/suggestions/2650757-bring-back-macros

Here's part of one recent comment ( May 6, 2013 ): ＜＜

A product whose only purpose is to write code,
that doesn't support macros? Wow! Hard to believe.

I can not think of a single respect in which VS2012 is better
than VS2010. ＞＞ −− John Cronan

Forget emacs, forget "Rad Studio"...
Microsoft can't compete with its PRIOR SELF.

Again:

Microsoft has lost talent, it can't maintain its code.

Too often, so⋅called "upgrades" are really downgrades;
e.g. Visual Studio 2012 has no "macros", no VBA record and play.

[Jeff-Relf.Me]

Oops, I accidently switched threads...

This is the start of the Chris⋅Ahlstrom thread that I agree with:

news:kmopbq$enu$1...@dont-email.me
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/95db46b4a68a101b

[Hadron]

Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> writes:

> GreyCloud and Hadron don't know what I'm talking about.

You are, yet again, wrong. I do know what you're talking about and
posted a link to a stackexchange thread discussing it.

You're an idiot.

And learn how to use your character sets properly you blithering moron.

[Jeff-Relf.Me]

Thousands of Windows programmers agree with me, not you, Hadron.

So, yes, you do NOT know what I'm talking about.

REAL email/usenet apps ( e.g. Mozilla Thunderbird, Microsoft Outlook,
Google Groups and gmail ) properly quote the UTF⋅8 in my "Subject:" line.
They detect the charset because THEY HAVE TO, they're world class.

emacs is too backwater to handle it, plain and simple.

[GreyCloud]

On 5/13/2013 1:28 AM, Hadron wrote:
> GreyCloud <mi...@cumulus.com> writes:
>
>> On 5/12/2013 4:30 PM, Jeff-Relf.Me wrote:
>>> Microsoft has lost talent, it can't maintain its code;
>>> and it can't compete with its prior self.
>>>
>>
>> Who says they can't maintain their code?
>>
>>> Too often, so⋅called "upgrades" are really downgrades;
>>> e.g. Visual Studio 2012 has no "macros", no VBA record and play.
>>>
>>
>> Maybe they have a reason to drop it? I wouldn't know.
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12062515/can-i-record-play-macros-in-visual-studio-2012
>

I sort of suspected that might have been the case.
I don't use them.

[GreyCloud]

Yet less than 1% of the developers are using the feature.
Guess it just wasn't that important.

[Peter Köhlmann]

Wrong. MS only knows about those who have enabled the "phone-home" option.
MS has absolutely no idea how widely used the Macros really were

Additionally, MS should not emulate *all* the bad traits of apple.
Especially the annoying habit to drop features or applications isn't
something to be applauded

[Chris Ahlstrom]

After swilling some grog, Peter Köhlmann belched this bit o' wisdom:

> GreyCloud wrote:
>
>> On 5/13/2013 2:49 AM, Jeff-Relf.Me wrote:
>>> GreyCloud and Hadron don't know what I'm talking about.
>>>
>>> The post that started the "Bring back Macros" thread
>>> got 1,771 thumbs up ( including 3 from me ); see:
>>>
>>> http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-
> studio/suggestions/2650757-bring-back-macros
>>>
>>> Here's part of one recent comment ( May 6, 2013 ): ＜＜
>>>
>>> A product whose only purpose is to write code,
>>> that doesn't support macros? Wow! Hard to believe.
>>>
>>> I can not think of a single respect in which VS2012 is better
>>> than VS2010. ＞＞ −− John Cronan
>>>
>>> Forget emacs, forget "Rad Studio"...
>>> Microsoft can't compete with its PRIOR SELF.
>>>
>>> Again:
>>>
>>> Microsoft has lost talent, it can't maintain its code.
>>>
>>> Too often, so⋅called "upgrades" are really downgrades;
>>> e.g. Visual Studio 2012 has no "macros", no VBA record and play.
>>>
>>> While I prefer Windows 8, many SMART people prefer Windows XP.
>>> I use Office 2007 and see no reason to "upgrade".
>>>
>>> The article at the start of this thread is spot on.
>>> Well done Chris⋅Ahlstrom !

?????

>> Yet less than 1% of the developers are using the feature.
>> Guess it just wasn't that important.

"Duh. How many boxes will it sell?"

> Wrong. MS only knows about those who have enabled the "phone-home" option.
> MS has absolutely no idea how widely used the Macros really were
>
> Additionally, MS should not emulate *all* the bad traits of apple.
> Especially the annoying habit to drop features or applications isn't
> something to be applauded

WTF does this have to do with me?

(Other than I don't really like Visual Studio and its amazing bloat)

--
What we’re really after is simply that people acquire a legal license for
Windows for each computer they own before they move on to Linux or Sun
Solaris or BSD or OS/2 or whatever.
-- Bill Gates

[Chris Ahlstrom]

After swilling some grog, Hadron belched this bit o' wisdom:

> GreyCloud <mi...@cumulus.com> writes:
>
>> On 5/12/2013 4:30 PM, Jeff-Relf.Me wrote:
>>> Microsoft has lost talent, it can't maintain its code;
>>> and it can't compete with its prior self.
>>>
>> Who says they can't maintain their code?
>>
>>> Too often, so⋅called "upgrades" are really downgrades;
>>> e.g. Visual Studio 2012 has no "macros", no VBA record and play.
>>>
>>
>> Maybe they have a reason to drop it? I wouldn't know.
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12062515/can-i-record-play-macros-in-visual-studio-2012

Cutting code out of your world class IDE to paste into Notepad++ to
record and play a simple macro is a clear Microsoft Fail. However, I
concur that this is the currently the simplest solution to this. Sad,
but true.

LOL.

--
According to the latest official figures, 43% of all statistics are
totally worthless.

[Jeff-Relf.Me]

Microsoft doesn't know if "less than 1% of the developers" use macros
because people uncheck the "Let Microsoft track your every move" box.

Again:

The post that started the "Bring back Macros" thread

got 1,771 thumbs up; see:

http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio/suggestions/2650757-bring-back-macros

People don't pay for false "upgrades", obviously.

The Chris⋅Ahlstrom post/thread that I agree with:

news:kmopbq$enu$1...@dont-email.me
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/95db46b4a68a101b

[William Poaster]

Probably nothing, seeing as it's the idiot Relf & Greyclod yakking.

--
This is Linux country. On a quiet night, you can hear NT re-boot.

Linux is the scientific community’s operating system of choice.
CERN’s Large Hadron Collider is controlled by Linux.
NASA and SpaceX ground stations use Linux.
DNA-sequencing lab technicians use Linux.
Really, for applications that require absolute stability,
which most scientific experiments are, Linux is the obvious choice.
http://tinyurl.com/d9ta82o

[GreyCloud]

Again, block head, you are wrong. If you had read the article, MS said
that only 1% used the macro recording feature, so they dropped it.

Now if people squawked to them to get it back, maybe they'll listen and
put it back in.

> Additionally, MS should not emulate *all* the bad traits of apple.
> Especially the annoying habit to drop features or applications isn't
> something to be applauded
>

I agree there, and that is what basically made me drop Apple of what
they did to Xcode by dropping too many coding templates.

[GreyCloud]

[Snit]

On 5/13/13 3:21 PM, in article 2v-dnak_u6PH-gzM...@bresnan.com,

"GreyCloud" <mi...@cumulus.com> wrote:

>>> Yet less than 1% of the developers are using the feature.
>>> Guess it just wasn't that important.
>>
>> Wrong. MS only knows about those who have enabled the "phone-home" option.
>> MS has absolutely no idea how widely used the Macros really were
>
> Again, block head, you are wrong. If you had read the article, MS said
> that only 1% used the macro recording feature, so they dropped it.

And this makes sense. There is value in allotting resources to benefit the
mass of your user base and to remove "bloat" to keep the code as simple as
you can while filling the needs of your customers.

Now this does not mean MS is being fully open about the reasons. Maybe with
Win 8 and mobile and trying to get the software to work on more types of
systems they have to cut back. Maybe they are re-doing parts of the back
end, as Apple did with Final Cut and iMovie and QuickTime and other
programs. I do not know. Neither does anyone else in COLA.

> Now if people squawked to them to get it back, maybe they'll listen and
> put it back in.

Of course. If there is enough demand to justify the cost of adding it back
in they will.

>> Additionally, MS should not emulate *all* the bad traits of apple.
>> Especially the annoying habit to drop features or applications isn't
>> something to be applauded
>
> I agree there, and that is what basically made me drop Apple of what
> they did to Xcode by dropping too many coding templates.

Apple has a number of programs that have pretty much just died: iWeb and
iDVD are completely gone and much of the rest of iLife, other than iTunes,
has not been given any real updates in far too long. Heck, iWork is a great
suite... but it is iWork '09! Really... the last major update was 2009. Come
on, Apple - keep things moving forward. There is a lot more than can be done
with each of the programs (Pages, Numbers, Keynote).

Apple has completely dropped the ball on iLife and iWork. As a Mac user I am
quite disappointed in them over this. And their pro tools are not doing much
better. They have a great desktop OS... but their focus on iOS has lead to
stagnation on the desktop.

[Snit]

On 5/13/13 4:24 PM, in article CDB6C424.1AD0B%use...@gallopinginsanity.com,

"Snit" <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

>> I agree there, and that is what basically made me drop Apple of what
>> they did to Xcode by dropping too many coding templates.
>
> Apple has a number of programs that have pretty much just died: iWeb and
> iDVD are completely gone and much of the rest of iLife, other than iTunes,
> has not been given any real updates in far too long. Heck, iWork is a great
> suite... but it is iWork '09! Really... the last major update was 2009. Come
> on, Apple - keep things moving forward. There is a lot more than can be done
> with each of the programs (Pages, Numbers, Keynote).
>
> Apple has completely dropped the ball on iLife and iWork. As a Mac user I am
> quite disappointed in them over this. And their pro tools are not doing much
> better. They have a great desktop OS... but their focus on iOS has lead to
> stagnation on the desktop.

Funny, after writing the above I saw this:

<http://bit.ly/17YuGVo>
-----
Apple job listings point to new iWork for iOS and OS X with HiDPI
graphics
...
While there has yet to be any official word on a next-gen iWork
product, the number of job listings and information therein strongly
suggest such a product is in the offing, and could be released in
the near future. The current iWork '09, which includes Pages,
Numbers and Keynote, was released in 2009, and is seen by some to be
long overdue for an upgrade.
-----

I do hope it is more than just making it work on Retina displays better and
a couple other little things... I hope it is a *real* upgrade. We shall see.

[Hadron]

Notice that blithering idiot Relf pretending to be unaware of this.

[Ezekiel]

"GreyCloud" <mi...@cumulus.com> wrote in message
news:y-CdnQg1XP7EbRLM...@bresnan.com...

> On 5/12/2013 1:04 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> Or, "How Many Boxes Will It Sell?"
>>
>

> I've never seen the screen that this website shows.
> An anonymous somebody that no one knows about. This is proof??
> You gotta be kidding.
>

Chris Ahlstrom is an idiot and a hypocrite. He's an idiot because he somehow
thinks that some anonymous posting is "proof" of something. He's a hypocrite
because a while back HPT was busted for nymshifting. The IP address showed
he was nymshifting and HPT even admitted he was nymshifting. Despite this
Chris Ahlstrom continued to argue that this wasn't proof because someone
could have hacked the newsgroup server and faked the nymshifting and
admission.

A hypocrite like Chris Ahlstrom applies one ridiculous standard of "no
amount of solid evidence is good enough" when it comes to HPT being a
nymshifter but when it comes to something that's anti-MS then he uses a
completely different standard where some anonymous post is "proof" so it
must be true.

--
"It *is* impossible to become a billionaire while competing fairly with
others. No one is that fscking great. Some unfair advantage(s) must be
obtained."

turdv, trying to rationalize why he's a complete failure in life. All
successful people must have somehow cheated in his mind.
Date: Feb 15, 2013
Message-ID: <6j7th8prfhfekq9n7...@4ax.com>

[Jeff-Relf.Me]

My Visual C++ code automates Visual Studio and Excel
using the OLE version of VBA scripts.

In Visual Studio, I hit F7 and start recording crap.
When done, I hit F7 again. To play it, I hit F8.

If I want, I can edit the recording ( i.e. the VBA script ).
Also, I write VBA scripts ( a.k.a. "macros" ) by hand; to wit:

http://Jeff-Relf.Me/Visual_Studio_Macros.TXT

These "Sub" routines are assigned to keystrokes
and toolbar "buttons". Some of them launch apps I wrote,
including apps that automate other apps.

I've been using "Macros" ever since 1983;
no way in hell would I stop now, just because Microsoft
claims Visual Studio 2012 is an "upgrade" ( it isn't ).

Again:

Forget BACKWATER emacs, forget "Rad Studio"...
Microsoft can't compete with its prior self.

The post that started the "Bring back Macros" thread

got 1,771 thumbs up; see:

http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio/suggestions/2650757-bring-back-macros

Microsoft has lost talent, it can't maintain its code.

While I prefer Windows 8, many SMART people prefer Windows XP.
I use Office 2007 and see no reason to "upgrade".

[flatfish+++]

On Sun, 12 May 2013 20:29:00 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> After swilling some grog, Peter K�hlmann belched this bit o' wisdom:

>
>> GreyCloud wrote:
>>
>>> Feel free to prove that he is a windows developer hired by Microsoft.
>>> From what I see, there is no proof... like what part of anonymous do
>>> you not understand?
>>
>> I see that you are very willing to discount everything which is against your
>> beliefs. No matter how probable or improbable.
>>
>> And, that you are (naturally) totally incapable to understand the article.
>> You simply are too stupid
>
> He's also ignoring the closer-to-the-source article I referenced in a
> related thread.

Nothing you have posted has any proof in it.
Unless I missed some of your posts in which case feel free to correct
me.
Maybe it's true.
Maybe it's not.

It will probably come out sooner or later but for now it's all just
anonymous.

I can't believe you have sunk this low.

--
flatfish+++
PLEASE VISIT OUR HALL OF LINUX IDIOTS:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

[flatfish+++]

On Sun, 12 May 2013 17:52:17 -0700, Snit wrote:

> On 5/12/13 5:29 PM, in article kmpbtb$edo$1...@dont-email.me, "Chris Ahlstrom"

> <OFee...@teleworm.us> wrote:
>
>> After swilling some grog, Peter K�hlmann belched this bit o' wisdom:
>>
>>> GreyCloud wrote:
>>>
>>>> Feel free to prove that he is a windows developer hired by Microsoft.
>>>> From what I see, there is no proof... like what part of anonymous do
>>>> you not understand?
>>>
>>> I see that you are very willing to discount everything which is against your
>>> beliefs. No matter how probable or improbable.
>>>
>>> And, that you are (naturally) totally incapable to understand the article.
>>> You simply are too stupid
>>
>> He's also ignoring the closer-to-the-source article I referenced in a

>> related thread. Apparently there was a hash calculation that Microsoft
>> developer used as "proof", but then requested that the copy of his post
>> redact the hash value.
>>
>> In that article, he recants a bit on the sarcasm, and tries to
>> back-pedal a little.
>>
>> Now, it is our turn to demand proof... that GreyCloud is the real
>> GreyCloud, and that he has a real brain.
>

> If you are suggesting that GreyCloud is not himself it is up to you to offer
> evidence. It is not up to him to prove your accusation wrong.
>
> There is, of course, no basis for this accusation. It is simply
> herd-wanking. It is useless. It is unsupportable.
>
> But you will try to turn things around and say it is true unless he jumps
> through hoops you set up for him. Insane.

Ahlstrom *demanding* something.
Now *that's* funny !

If only he had the testicular fortitude to do the same with his
domineering wife.
He might get more than $20.00 per week allowance and might be driving
something other than a Ford Fiesta.

[chrisv]

William Poaster wrote:

>Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>
>> Peter Köhlmann belched:
>>>
>>> some piece of shit wrote:

>>>>
>>>> Jeff-Relf.Me wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The article at the start of this thread is spot on.

>>>>> Well done Chris?Ahlstrom !

>>
>> ?????
>>
>>>> Yet less than 1% of the developers are using the feature.
>>>> Guess it just wasn't that important.
>>
>> "Duh. How many boxes will it sell?"
>>
>>> Wrong. MS only knows about those who have enabled the "phone-home" option.
>>> MS has absolutely no idea how widely used the Macros really were
>>>
>>> Additionally, MS should not emulate *all* the bad traits of apple.
>>> Especially the annoying habit to drop features or applications isn't
>>> something to be applauded
>>
>> WTF does this have to do with me?
>>
>> (Other than I don't really like Visual Studio and its amazing bloat)
>
>Probably nothing, seeing as it's the idiot Relf & Greyclod yakking.

In each other, they have found their mental equals. Cretins.

--
"Then why are you attacking people that may have a preference for
another operating system?" - some piece of shit that calls itself
"GreyCloud", lying shamelessly

[Snit]

On 5/14/13 5:24 AM, in article Jeff-R...@May.14{5.24.Seattle.2013},

"Jeff-Relf.Me" <@.> wrote:

> If I want, I can edit the recording ( i.e. the VBA script ).
> Also, I write VBA scripts ( a.k.a. "macros" ) by hand; to wit:
>
> http://Jeff-Relf.Me/Visual_Studio_Macros.TXT
>
> These "Sub" routines are assigned to keystrokes
> and toolbar "buttons". Some of them launch apps I wrote,
> including apps that automate other apps.
>
> I've been using "Macros" ever since 1983;
> no way in hell would I stop now, just because Microsoft
> claims Visual Studio 2012 is an "upgrade" ( it isn't ).

Apple has not taken AppleScript and Automator as far as I wish... so I get
what you are saying. Still, at least with Apple they have not taken them
*backwards*.

[JEDIDIAH]

On 2013-05-13, Chris Ahlstrom <OFee...@teleworm.us> wrote:
> After swilling some grog, Peter Köhlmann belched this bit o' wisdom:

>
>> GreyCloud wrote:
>>
>>> Feel free to prove that he is a windows developer hired by Microsoft.
>>> From what I see, there is no proof... like what part of anonymous do
>>> you not understand?
>>
>> I see that you are very willing to discount everything which is against your
>> beliefs. No matter how probable or improbable.
>>
>> And, that you are (naturally) totally incapable to understand the article.
>> You simply are too stupid
>
> He's also ignoring the closer-to-the-source article I referenced in a

The real problem is that this story rings true to anyone that has ever
worked in a large corporate computing environment. Half of Slashdot had
flashbacks when that was originally posted.

[deletia]

The story seems very plausible from the outside regardless of it's authenticity.

--

Apple: Power users are not welcome here. |||
/ | \

[GreyCloud]

Now how about notifying MS about bringing it back.
That's about the only way they'll get it back. Organize a campaign if
you feel so strongly about it. I don't use it so I won't miss it.

[Hadron]

"Ezekiel" <ze...@nosuchemail.com> writes:

> "GreyCloud" <mi...@cumulus.com> wrote in message
> news:y-CdnQg1XP7EbRLM...@bresnan.com...
>> On 5/12/2013 1:04 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>> Or, "How Many Boxes Will It Sell?"
>>>
>>
>> I've never seen the screen that this website shows.
>> An anonymous somebody that no one knows about. This is proof??
>> You gotta be kidding.
>>
>
> Chris Ahlstrom is an idiot and a hypocrite. He's an idiot because he somehow
> thinks that some anonymous posting is "proof" of something. He's a hypocrite
> because a while back HPT was busted for nymshifting. The IP address showed
> he was nymshifting and HPT even admitted he was nymshifting. Despite this
> Chris Ahlstrom continued to argue that this wasn't proof because someone
> could have hacked the newsgroup server and faked the nymshifting and
> admission.
>
> A hypocrite like Chris Ahlstrom applies one ridiculous standard of "no
> amount of solid evidence is good enough" when it comes to HPT being a
> nymshifter but when it comes to something that's anti-MS then he uses a
> completely different standard where some anonymous post is "proof" so it
> must be true.

You must remember that Creepy Chris Ahlstrom also *refused* to read
external links proving Roy Bighead was a liar. So enamoured was he with
Big Roy's shorts...

[Anonymous]

I'll tell you something as an average home computer user: when I
used to run windows I trembled in my boots whenever there was a
glitch with windows, and I bowed down to whatever the windows Gods
told me I had to do to keep my OS running.

The reason was that, like most windows users I suspect, I thought
I had nowhere else to go; I thought linux was a command-line
geeks-only OS and that if I wanted to have a home computer and do
my email and newsgroup and web-surfing stuff, I had to use windows.

When I finally got adventurous enough to try Mandriva, I was
astounded that the thing had a gui install and that you could run
firefox and opera and email and news clients!

I got rid of windows and never looked back, except for installing
Wine so that I can run one utility I like that was written for
windows.

These days I run Mint 14 and though I prefer it, I don't deeply
care if it becomes unusable for some reason, because I can install
Ubuntu or Debian and have the same programs running from my daily
/home file backups in an hour or two.

I make a full backup of the OS every few days by running re-do:
The backup takes about 4 minutes, and the re-install, which I
tested, takes about the same length.

And it is free. I forgot to mention that that is another great
motivator to move from Windows to Linux: Anything you want to do
with a computer can be done with Linux, and the programs are
available with a few clicks - no going to download.com and hunting
for the free trial version of something. Man, what a farce that is
- I mean paying for software. All part of the Windows treadmill.

If you want to do just the 'average' things: email, news, surfing,
word processing, printing, scanning, graphics, photo editing,
video editing, etc., then the gui programs are available, probably
already installed.

If you want to do more, you may or may not have a gui, and may or
may not have to edit a config file.

I am not too technical, but have managed to run a web server and
an email relay, and two surveillance cameras with motion detection
and backup of the .avi files 24 hours /day, and did it without much
trouble. And the help available at forums.linuxmint.com and
forums.ubuntu.com is excellent.

I can not tell you how good it is not to be under the thumb of
windows; and all it takes, at least for a home user, is to realize
that linux is easy to install and run.

[Gregory Shearman]

On 2013-05-17, Anonymous <anon...@foto.nl1.torservers.net> wrote:
> I'll tell you something as an average home computer user: when I
> used to run windows I trembled in my boots whenever there was a
> glitch with windows, and I bowed down to whatever the windows Gods
> told me I had to do to keep my OS running.

I started my home computing with MS-DOS 3.1 on an 80286 with a 40MB HDD
and bugger all memory. I moved on to Windows 3.11 Then 95. It was the
instability and Microsoft's proprietory prison.

My wife's nephew gave me a 5CD set of Redhat Linux 5.0 (containing the
2.0.32 kernel). I heard it was a UNIX-like operating system and I'd had
previous experience with solaris and the VAX/VMS systems. It was a
breath of fresh air. A stable, secure system requiring no anti-virus
protection software. I never looked back after the first install. I
moved onto Redhat 6.1.

I wanted to explore the basics of GNU-Linux so I went on to install
Linux From Scratch. I liked this install but it lacked the package
management system like Redhat's RPM. Then I discovered Gentoo and
gentoo's portage package management and I've been using it ever since.
My Linux experience goes back a long way.

> The reason was that, like most windows users I suspect, I thought
> I had nowhere else to go; I thought linux was a command-line
> geeks-only OS and that if I wanted to have a home computer and do
> my email and newsgroup and web-surfing stuff, I had to use windows.

Where would you have been inculcated with the notion that Linux was only
a command line system? At least since Redhat 5.0 there has always been a
GUI interface. I suppose it is the expensive Microsoft propaganda. I'd
never even heard of GNU/Linux until my wife's nephew gave me the CD set.

That's not to denigrate the Linux commandline. Since the time I saw my
first:

$

Command line I couldn't believe the richness of the command line
environment after the basic and restictive Microsoft effort. Bash
scripting could automate anything.

A geeks-only OS? No. It's for everyone, geeks included.

> When I finally got adventurous enough to try Mandriva, I was
> astounded that the thing had a gui install and that you could run
> firefox and opera and email and news clients!

firefox? I go right back to netscape navigator. Linux was the same back
then. Mandriva uses the RPM package manager as well.

> I got rid of windows and never looked back, except for installing
> Wine so that I can run one utility I like that was written for
> windows.

I've never bothered with wine. It always seems to me as introducing
something unclean, a filthy virus into something clean and beautiful.

> These days I run Mint 14 and though I prefer it, I don't deeply
> care if it becomes unusable for some reason, because I can install
> Ubuntu or Debian and have the same programs running from my daily
> /home file backups in an hour or two.

I do a main weekly backup after I sync all our computers to the gentoo
server at Swinburne University in Melbourne. I've been using this server
for as long as I've been usiyng Gentoo, If something ever goes
drastically wrong with my machine or any of the others, I can just
rollback the whole system. But of course, Gentoo Linux provides you with
the tools to fix your own system if you break it. As they say: The
beauty of Linux is that if you break your system you get to keep all the
pieces.

Gentoo really is a distro for geeks. 8-)

> I make a full backup of the OS every few days by running re-do:
> The backup takes about 4 minutes, and the re-install, which I
> tested, takes about the same length.

Mine takes a bit longer, but I do them once a week.

> And it is free. I forgot to mention that that is another great
> motivator to move from Windows to Linux: Anything you want to do
> with a computer can be done with Linux, and the programs are
> available with a few clicks - no going to download.com and hunting
> for the free trial version of something. Man, what a farce that is
> - I mean paying for software. All part of the Windows treadmill.

Windows Shareware was a really annoying part of the Microsoft world.
Annoying "nagware" screens...

> If you want to do just the 'average' things: email, news, surfing,
> word processing, printing, scanning, graphics, photo editing,
> video editing, etc., then the gui programs are available, probably
> already installed.

I just install KDE and it provides all these goodies.

> If you want to do more, you may or may not have a gui, and may or
> may not have to edit a config file.

Yep. Freedom to do things *your* way, not the lockstep marching to the
Microsoft tune.

--
Regards,
Gregory.
Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power

[flatfish+++]

Both decent examples of Linux advocacy.

[Jeff-Relf.Me]

I was writing "Unix" shell scripts in 1981,
DOS shell scripts since 1983, 30 years ago.

Windows⋅8 was HARD to configure, it took WEEKS, but I did it.
The upper left/right "hot corners" are turned off.

I never worry about "viruses", I don't run anti⋅virus crap.
I wrote/maintain my own email/browser apps, so I know what I'm doing.

My 20 watt PC/VoIP⋅phone boots to a blank Windows⋅8 desktop:

http://Jeff-Relf.Me/Start_Button.PNG
The taskbar has one "pinned" icon:

My "Start Button" ( I used Visual C++ ); to wit:

http://Jeff-Relf.Me/X.PNG

My Logitech G⋅600 mouse has almost 40 buttons; to wit:

http://Jeff-Relf.Me/G600.JPG

To add a command/app to my "Start Button" app ( X.EXE ), I edit:

http://Jeff-Relf.Me/X.HTM

Like this:

\\ App /Windows/eXplorer.EXE /n,\__
VS App /__/EXEs/Visual_Studio_2010/Common7/IDE/devEnv.EXE \__\_Source\X.SLN
FF App /__/EXEs/FireFox/Firefox.EXE
IE App "/Program Files (x86)/Internet Explorer/IExplore.EXE"
ME App /__/EXEs/FileZilla/filezilla.EXE -c 0/Me
Bac App /__/EXEs/FileZilla/filezilla.EXE -c 0/Bac
JXH App /__/EXEs/FileZilla/filezilla.EXE -c 0/JXH
ABA App /__/EXEs/FileZilla/filezilla.EXE -c 0/ABA
WinAmp App /__/EXEs/WinAMP/CLamp.EXE /Random ON /PLclear /PLadd \__\MP3\*.MP3 /Next /Play
Bria App /__/EXEs/Bria/Bria3.EXE
DOS App /__/EXEs/Console2/Console.EXE -r "/K"
Unins App Control appWiz.CPL
⏉ App /__/_Source/EXE/Games.EXE
Del App /Windows/eXplorer.EXE /n,\$Recycle.Bin\S-1-5-18
ClrPck App /__/EXEs/ColorPicker/ColorPix.EXE
RegEd App /Windows/System32/RegEdt32.EXE
Wrd App /__/EXEs/Office_2007/Office12/WinWord.EXE
╳ App @/__/X /__/Backup/X.EXE

[Snit]

On 5/17/13 2:33 PM, in article Jeff-R...@May.17{14.33.Seattle.2013},

"Jeff-Relf.Me" <@.> wrote:

> I was writing "Unix" shell scripts in 1981,
> DOS shell scripts since 1983, 30 years ago.

And yet, so many years later, you still show such basic confusion with
Usenet that you confuse it with email.

I find this a shame, but I also understand that people have different
strengths. Maybe your strengths are with music or other arts or language or
something. The fact you have a weakness when it comes to understanding
technology, even after all this time, is not something you should be ashamed
of. I hope you are not.

> Windows・8 was HARD to configure, it took WEEKS, but I did it.

And it is good that even with your weakness in the area of technology you
are willing to stick to it. I commend that.
...

--
"When making pornography involves real abuse of real children ... that does
not excuse censorship. No matter how disgusting published works might be,
censorship is more disgusting." -- Richard Stallman

[Jeff-Relf.Me]

 
You ( Mr. "Snit" ) told me: ＜＜

  And it is good that even with your weakness in the area of technology
  you are willing to stick to it. I commend that. ＞＞

Thanks, you're OK too, I think.
When I read COLA ( as I have been lately ), I read your:

  5 most⋅recent posts of the last 24 hours.
  [ i.e. My Usenet app turns your tsunami into a trickle ]
⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅
Usenet is a variant of email, they're VERY similar.
If you're having trouble reading HTML/UTF⋅8, try Mozilla Thunderbird.

Likely, you'll bitch at me, instead of learning a new app.
Most Linux apps are ultra⋅backwater, redneck.
Linux newsreaders act like HTML/UTF⋅8 doesn't exist.

[Snit]

On 5/17/13 3:18 PM, in article Jeff-R...@May.17{15.18.Seattle.2013},
"Jeff-Relf.Me" <@.> wrote:

> ?

> You ( Mr. "Snit" ) told me: ＜＜
>
> And it is good that even with your weakness in the area of technology
> you are willing to stick to it. I commend that. ＞＞
>
> Thanks, you're OK too, I think.

Thanks.

> When I read COLA ( as I have been lately ), I read your:
>
> 5 most・recent posts of the last 24 hours.
> [ i.e. My Usenet app turns your tsunami into a trickle ]
> ・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・
> Usenet is a variant of email, they're VERY similar.

Usenet is not a form or variant of email, even if they share similarities.

> If you're having trouble reading HTML/UTF・8, try Mozilla Thunderbird.
>
> Likely, you'll bitch at me, instead of learning a new app.

I am quite familiar with Thunderbird... and it is not a "new app", it has
been around for some time (without looking it up I would guess around 10
years... maybe a little less?)

> Most Linux apps are ultra・backwater, redneck.

An interesting description. I would say that many of the desktop apps are
behind the competition... though that is a *general* statement and not a
hard and fast rule.

> Linux newsreaders act like HTML/UTF・8 doesn't exist.

Thunderbird works just fine on Linux.

--
"I have never, ever cared about really anything but the Linux desktop."
-- Linus Torvalds

[Marti Van Lin]

Op 17-5-2013 23:33, schreef Jeff-Relf.Me:

> I was writing "Unix" shell scripts in 1981,
> DOS shell scripts since 1983, 30 years ago.

Just like the majority of posters in this group.

> Windows⋅8 was HARD to configure, it took WEEKS, but I did it.
> The upper left/right "hot corners" are turned off.

In my case it took a couple of hours at best. The most important part
was getting used to the new Windows 8 specific keyboard shortcuts:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/keyboard-shortcuts

The only "Configuration" I had to do, was installing the Video driver,
an updated webcam driver and the Epson Stylus AllInOne driver. My
personal settings/preferences and everything else ran out of the box.

> I never worry about "viruses", I don't run anti⋅virus crap.

Ignorance is bliss!

I use the build-in BitDefender and once a week I run SuperAntiSpyware Free.

Windows 8 is so HARD to configure that even a chimp could do it.

--
|_|0|_| Marti T. van Lin (alias de ML2MST)
|_|_|0| http://osg33x.blogspot.com
|0|0|0| Windows 8: The Future is Now!

[Jeff-Relf.Me]

 
Mozilla Thunderbird and Firefox are joined at the hip.
They're delevopled in tandom.  They're a fork of Netscape.

You ( Snit ) don't know much about Thunderbird, so it's "new" to you.
You don't know what userContent.CSS and userChrome.CSS are, for example.

Those who've spent weeks tweeking Windows 8✼, as I have, are EXPERTS.
[ ✼: My IE / Win_8 "Theme".
     Registry Settings to change font faces/sizes. ]

I wrote my first email/Usenet app ( for NeXT ) back in 1991.
I could prove to you that Usenet is a variant of email,
but I won't bother because I know you don't care that much.

emacs is backwater because it doesn't understand HTML/UTF・8.

[Snit]

On 5/17/13 4:23 PM, in article Jeff-R...@May.17{16.23.Seattle.2013},

"Jeff-Relf.Me" <@.> wrote:

> Mozilla Thunderbird and Firefox are joined at the hip.
> They're delevopled in tandom. They're a fork of Netscape.

Good to see you know this. Not sure why you bring it up. Is it "Arbitrary
Fact Week"? If so I did not get the memo. But assuming it is, I shall share
a fact with you:

Phobatrivaphobia is a fear of trivia about phobias.

> You ( Snit ) don't know much about Thunderbird, so it's "new" to you.

You are assuming what I do and do not know. Is this a hobby of yours?
Perhaps it is a game you play. I shall join:

You (Jeff) don't know much about the ampersand (&), so it's
"new" to you.

Mildly amusing. Thank you for inviting me to play!

> You don't know what userContent.CSS <http://Jeff-Relf.Me/userContent.CSS.TXT>
> and userChrome.CSS <http://Jeff-Relf.Me/userChrome.CSS.TXT> are, for example.

More assumptions about what I do and do not know. Interesting game. I shall
play, too!

You don't know what spaces between parenthesis are, for example.

While this is somewhat amusing I can see where it would get old quickly.

> Those who've spent weeks tweeking Windows 8?, as I have, are EXPERTS.

You said it took you weeks to configure Windows. That shows a sign of being
the opposite of an "expert", unless you had some rather uncommon needs for
this configuring!

> [ ?: My IE / Win_8 "Theme" <http://Jeff-Relf.Me/Jeff_Relf.Theme.TXT> .
> Registry Settings <http://Jeff-Relf.Me/Win_8_.REG.TXT> to change font

> faces/sizes. ]
>
> I wrote my first email/Usenet app ( for NeXT

> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXT> ) back in 1991.

> I could prove to you that Usenet is a variant of email,
> but I won't bother because I know you don't care that much.

Usenet is not a variant of email and thus you cannot prove that it is. But I
shall play the same game...

I could prove that Mt. Rushmore is a variant of Cacti, but I

won't bother because I know you don't care that much.

Do you find such games fun?

> emacs is backwater because it doesn't understand HTML/UTF・8.

--
Summary of cc's statistical BS: <http://tinyurl.com/7rwazxw>
Details on cc's "outliers" BS: <http://tinyurl.com/84r3ypq>
More on cc's ignorance about outliers: <http://tinyurl.com/7vyhttc>
Four method compared to cc's absurd claims: <http://tinyurl.com/7efkuzm>
Details on cc's sigma and R^2 BS: <http://tinyurl.com/7vambev>

[Jeff-Relf.Me]

 
Entourage ( Mr. "Snit"'s newsreader ) can't handle HTML/UTF-8.
[ it attempts to use "ISO-2022-JP", a big FAIL,
  and <A> tags are quoted "as is", raw HTML ]

Likewise, emacs is backwater because it doesn't understand HTML/UTF・8.

Thunderbird can because:

  Mozilla Thunderbird and Firefox are joined at the hip.
  hey're delevopled in tandom.  They're a fork of Netscape.

I've explained this to Snit, yet he continually fails to grasp it;
instead, he blames ME for his failures.

Also, I showed him ultra⋅complex modifications to Windows⋅8 and FireFox;
still, he thinks I'm a noob because it took me weeks to do it.
Is he nuts ? I think so.  Still, he's smarter than most here, sad to say.

Again:

  

My IE / Win_8 "Theme".
  Registry Settings

 to change font faces/sizes.

  Change the color of Web Pages, FireFox and (DOS) "Console 2".

  To skip the Start Screen ( Metro ), see:  WinAero.COM

My 20 watt PC/VoIP⋅phone boots to a blank Windows⋅8 desktop; Screenshot.
The taskbar has one "pinned" icon; i.e. my "Start Button"
( I used Visual C++ ); Screenshot.

My Logitech G⋅600 mouse has almost 40 buttons; Screenshot.

To add a command/app to my "Start Button" app ( X.EXE ), I edit X.HTM.

Like this:

  \\       App  /Windows/eXplorer.EXE /n,\__
  VS       App  /__/EXEs/Visual_Studio_2010/Common7/IDE/devEnv.EXE \__\_Source\X.SLN
  FF       App  /__/EXEs/FireFox/Firefox.EXE
  IE       App  "/Program Files (x86)/Internet Explorer/IExplore.EXE"
  ME       App  /__/EXEs/FileZilla/filezilla.EXE -c 0/Me
  Bac      App  /__/EXEs/FileZilla/filezilla.EXE -c 0/Bac
  JXH      App  /__/EXEs/FileZilla/filezilla.EXE -c 0/JXH
  ABA      App  /__/EXEs/FileZilla/filezilla.EXE -c 0/ABA
  WinAmp   App  /__/EXEs/WinAMP/CLamp.EXE /Random ON /PLclear /PLadd \__\MP3\*.MP3 /Next /Play
  Bria     App  /__/EXEs/Bria/Bria3.EXE
  DOS      App  /__/EXEs/Console2/Console.EXE -r "/K"
  Unins    App  Control appWiz.CPL
  ⏉       App  /__/_Source/EXE/Games.EXE
  Del      App  /Windows/eXplorer.EXE /n,\$Recycle.Bin\S-1-5-18
  ClrPck   App  /__/EXEs/ColorPicker/ColorPix.EXE
  Cntrl    App  Control
  RegEd    App  /Windows/System32/RegEdt32.EXE
  Wrd      App  /__/EXEs/Office_2007/Office12/WinWord.EXE
  ╳        App  @/__/X  /__/Backup/X.EXE

[Snit]

On 5/17/13 6:03 PM, in article Jeff-R...@May.17{18.03.Seattle.2013},
"Jeff-Relf.Me" <@.> wrote:

> ?

> Entourage ( Mr. "Snit"'s newsreader ) can't handle HTML/UTF-8.

You are incorrect. It can where appropriate, in email.

> [ it attempts to use "ISO-2022-JP", a big FAIL,
> and <A> tags are quoted "as is", raw HTML ]
>

> Likewise, emacs <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emacs> is backwater because it

> doesn't understand HTML/UTF・8.
>
> Thunderbird can because:
>
> Mozilla Thunderbird and Firefox are joined at the hip.
> hey're delevopled in tandom. They're a fork of Netscape.
>
> I've explained this to Snit, yet he continually fails to grasp it;
> instead, he blames ME for his failures.

This is incorrect. I do no such thing.

> Also, I showed him ultra・complex modifications to Windows・8 and FireFox;
> still, he thinks I'm a noob because it took me weeks to do it.
> Is he nuts ? I think so. Still, he's smarter than most here, sad to say.

You are the one who claims to think Usenet is a form of email and admitted
it took you weeks to configure a basic consumer OS.

<snip a bunch of irrelevancies>


--
"Maybe there is someone who considers it disgusting for a parrot to have sex
with a human. Or for a dolphin or tiger to have sex with a human. So what?
Others feel that all sex is disgusting." -- Richard Stallman

[Jeff-Relf.Me]

 
Mr. "Snit", I've never heard of a newsreader that ONLY handles
HTML/UTF⋅8 when it's email, not when it's Usenet.
It doesn't make sense, sorry.

Entourage ( you newsreader ) can't handle HTML/UTF⋅8.
This is a KNOWN fact; I see it, anyone can see it.

It's using the "Mac⁻ISO-2022-JP" charset, not UTF⋅8,
and it's borking the <A> tags.  That's on you, sorry.

Thunderbird has no such problems because:

  Mozilla Thunderbird and Firefox are joined at the hip.
  They're delevopled in tandom.  They're a fork of Netscape.

I could spend YEARS tweaking a "basic consumer OS", two weeks is nothing.
How fast can you write ANYTHING like the following ? :

  

[Snit]

On 5/17/13 9:46 PM, in article Jeff-R...@May.17{21.46.Seattle.2013},
"Jeff-Relf.Me" <@.> wrote:

> ?

> Mr. "Snit", I've never heard of a newsreader that ONLY handles

> HTML/UTF占쏙옙8 when it's email, not when it's Usenet.

This is in direct contradiction to your claim earlier today:
-----
Entourage ( Mr. "Snit"'s newsreader ) can't handle HTML/UTF-8.
-----

> It doesn't make sense, sorry.

What makes sense to you is not relevant.

> Entourage ( you newsreader ) can't handle HTML/UTF占쏙옙8.

> This is a KNOWN fact; I see it, anyone can see it.

<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/EntourageUTF-8.mp4>

Your "known fact" does not fit the available data.

> It's using the "Mac?ISO-2022-JP" charset, not UTF占쏙옙8,

> and it's borking the <A> tags. That's on you, sorry.

If you would like to provide evidence that the UTF-8 support in Entourage is
not working correctly I would like to see it. Clearly, however, the UTF-8
option is there. I use Entourage only for Usenet text groups, though, and do
not care about its HTML support. Does not affect me in any way.

> Thunderbird has no such problems because:
>
> Mozilla Thunderbird and Firefox are joined at the hip.
> They're delevopled in tandom. They're a fork of Netscape.

You keep repeating this as though someone is denying the relationship
between the two products. This is very odd of you.

> I could spend YEARS tweaking a "basic consumer OS", two weeks is nothing.

I have no doubt you could spend a lot of time failing to use a tool to get
work done.

> How fast can you write ANYTHING like the following ? :
>

> My IE / Win_8 "Theme" <http://Jeff-Relf.Me/Jeff_Relf.Theme.TXT> .
> Registry Settings <http://Jeff-Relf.Me/Win_8_.REG.TXT> to change font
> faces/sizes.

I have modified font settings quite quickly on my primary desktop OS. Takes
mere moments to do. Certainly not "two weeks". Here:

<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/SetFonts.png>

I feel for you with your belief that such personalization would or should
take weeks to accomplish.


I snipped the rest. I am not interested in your specific modifications. So
you know, though, I also have a programmable Logitech mouse I have
customized for different programs. If you care:

<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/MouseSettings.mp4>

Not sure what this accomplishes though. So we both customize / personalize
our systems, or at least can if we wish to. So?

I think you are working to obfuscate your incorrect claim about Usenet being
a form of email. It is not. Have you realized your error there yet?

--
> As for Stallman, he is a repulsive person by any standard of decency.
... standard of decency or hygiene.
-- Lusotec

[Minty Fresh]

On Sunday, May 12, 2013 12:04:19 PM UTC-7, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Or, "How Many Boxes Will It Sell?"
>
>
>

> http://www.zdnet.com/anonymous-msft-developer-admits-linux-is-faster-than-windows-7000015236/
>
>
>
> It's not that Windows developers don't want to improve their
>
> operating system's performance, the problem is that Microsoft's
>
> software development culture discourages improvements. The programmer
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Granted, occasionally one sees naive people try to make things
>
> better. These people almost always fail. We can and do improve
>
> performance for specific scenarios that people with the ability to
>
> allocate resources believe impact business goals, but this work is
>
> Sisyphean. There's no formal or informal program of systemic
>
> performance improvement. We started caring about security because
>
> pre-SP3 Windows XP was an existential threat to the business. Our
>
> low performance is not an existential threat to the business.
>
>
>
> --
>
> The next generation of interesting software will be done on the Macintosh,
>
> not the IBM PC.
>
> -- Bill Gates, BusinessWeek, 26 November 1984

This is perhaps the most priceless comment on the Usenet I've ever read.
An anonymous party complains about an anonymous party.

the model is broken and has been since the start..........Trig

[Jeff-Relf.Me]

 
Were you ( Snit ) smart enough to TRY Thunderbird,
you'd know what I was talking about.  Sadly, you're not.

The charset ( UTF⋅8 ) is DETECTED, it's NOT a manual setting.
Same for HTML; no manual settings required, it just works.

Try it, you'll see; Thunderbird converts "text/HTML" to "text/plain".
Entourage, on the other hand, BORKS the conversion.
This is a FACT; I see the FAIL when you quote UTF⋅8 or HTML.

Are your feelings hurt, does it make your cry ?
Were I you, I'd be saying, "Sorry Jeff Relf, I was all wrong".

Quoting me, you wrote: ＜＜

  > It's using the "Mac?ISO-2022-JP" charset, not UTF·8,
  > and it's borking the <A> tags.  That's on you, sorry.  ＞＞

That SHOULD be "Mac⁻ISO-2022-JP", not "Mac?ISO-2022-JP".
'?' is NOT the same thing as '⁻', sorry; Entourage is borked.
Now Entourage thinks UTF⋅8 is EUC⋅KR ! ?  That's full on RETARDED, sorry.

Entourage is a backwater, redneck app, sorry.

Again, it also borks the <A> tags.
To see it done properly, fire up Thunderbird, Windows Live Mail,
or even Google Groups; but, again, that's WAY beyond you.

Re: http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/SetFonts.png

That doesn't even BEGIN to compare to the tweaks that I've made; to wit:

   My tweaks

Note: it's more than just font settings.
I would give you the details,
but I know you couldn't begin to understand.

[Jeff-Relf.Me]

 
No, Mr. "Snit", I wrote: ＜＜

  To see it done properly, fire up Thunderbird, Windows Live Mail,
  or even Google Groups; but, again, that's WAY beyond you. ＞＞

Obviously, it is; otherwise you'd go to this link, Google Groups,
to see how a REAL newsreader would handle it.
[ Thunderbird is too hard for you, so I point to Google Groups ]

Entourage is a backwater, redneck app, same as emacs.

[Chris Ahlstrom]

After swilling some grog, Marti Van Lin belched this bit o' wisdom:

> Op 17-5-2013 23:33, schreef Jeff-Relf.Me:
>

Subject plonk.

--
A scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and
making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually
die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.
-- Max Planck

[Snit]

On 5/17/13 11:22 PM, in article Jeff-R...@May.17{23.22.Seattle.2013},
"Jeff-Relf.Me" <@.> wrote:

> ?

> No, Mr. "Snit", I wrote: ＜＜
>
> To see it done properly, fire up Thunderbird, Windows Live Mail,
> or even Google Groups; but, again, that's WAY beyond you. ＞＞
>
> Obviously, it is; otherwise you'd go to this link

> <http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/1f777b00a7a1d4f8> ,

> Google Groups,
> to see how a REAL newsreader would handle it.
> [ Thunderbird is too hard for you, so I point to Google Groups ]
>
> Entourage is a backwater, redneck app, same as emacs

> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emacs> .
>
You make many baseless claims. Did you know that. Your most amusing was how
you think Usenet is a form of email.

That was funny.


--
"90% of computers use Microsoft's Windows ... Macs account for 9% of the
market while the open source system Linux accounts for 0.8%."
-- Linus Torvalds

[Snit]

On 5/17/13 10:56 PM, in article Jeff-R...@May.17{22.56.Seattle.2013},

"Jeff-Relf.Me" <@.> wrote:

>  
> Were you ( Snit ) smart enough to TRY Thunderbird,
> you'd know what I was talking about. Sadly, you're not.

Again, you are making assumptions about what I know and do not know. This is
common with you. You should do more than just assume, you should strive to
understand.

> The charset ( UTF⋅8 ) is DETECTED, it's NOT a manual setting.
> Same for HTML; no manual settings required, it just works.
>
> Try it, you'll see; Thunderbird converts "text/HTML" to "text/plain".

You are again assuming I have not used Thunderbird - an assumption you have
been told is faulty. So you are repeating requests with assumptions you know
to be faulty. Or maybe you are not able to understand what you read. Either
way, your ability to hold a conversation on the topic of Usenet and Usenet
readers is very weak.

> Entourage, on the other hand, BORKS

> <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=BORK> the conversion.

> This is a FACT; I see the FAIL when you quote UTF⋅8 or HTML.

You assume that I am not purposely converting your HTML to text, which is
what I am doing given the nature of this medium. Here:
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/RespondingToBrokenPosts.mp4>

> Are your feelings hurt, does it make your cry ?
> Were I you, I'd be saying, "Sorry Jeff Relf, I was all wrong".
>
> Quoting me, you wrote: ＜＜
>
>> It's using the "Mac?ISO-2022-JP" charset, not UTF·8,
>> and it's borking the <A> tags. That's on you, sorry. ＞＞
>
> That SHOULD be "Mac⁻ISO-2022-JP", not "Mac?ISO-2022-JP".
> '?' is NOT the same thing as '⁻', sorry; Entourage is borked.

The fact you are unable to figure out how to write non-HTML messages or,
perhaps worse, are opting to write them even though you might know how to
avoid doing so, is not something I should be held accountable for.

∆§ ƒå® å§ håπ∂Ï¡πg måπÿ çhå®åç†è®§, ‡ †h¡πk ¡† ¡§ §åƒè †◊ §åÿ †hå†
∑π†®◊ú®ågè håπ∂Ïè§ †hèm ∫ú§† ƒ¡πè. ‡ åm çú®¡◊ú§ h◊w †h¡§ w¡ÏÏ "ç◊mè ßåçk" å§
ÿ◊ú qú◊†è ¡†. ¶è®håp§ ÿ◊ú® Û§èπè† ®èå∂è® w¡ÏÏ ß®èåk †h¡πg§? Måÿßè π◊†. ‡†
§håÏÏ ßè å ƒúπ †è§†.

> Now Entourage thinks UTF⋅8 is EUC⋅KR ! ? That's full on RETARDED, sorry.

Entourage is a program and does not "think". You are not a program, but your
thinking is in question as well. :)

> Entourage is a backwater, redneck app, sorry.

Oh, it is a lousy Usenet reader but not for the reasons you speak of.

> Again, it also borks the <A> tags.

A tags are a part of HTML, not standard text. Remember, this is a text
medium, not an HTML medium. You are confusing Usenet with the web.

> To see it done properly, fire up Thunderbird, Windows Live Mail,
> or even Google Groups; but, again, that's WAY beyond you.

See how you make absurd assumptions. I have used each of those (though
Windows Live Mail only briefly).

> Re: http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/SetFonts.png

You did not even quote that correctly!

> That doesn't even BEGIN to compare to the tweaks that I've made; to wit:
>
> My tweaks

> <http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/1f777b00a7a1d4f8>

What tweaks you have done are of no interest to me. I was responding to your
comment about tweaking fonts. I noted that was a trivial thing to do. You,
on the other hand, show great pride in doing things which knowledgeable
people consider trivial.

This is not bad - you present yourself as a non-technical person. I would be
proud to do something others would consider basic in a field I am not
proficient with, such as when I make improvements in a foreign language.
Foreign languages, like technology with you, do not come easy to me.

> Note: it's more than just font settings.
> I would give you the details,
> but I know you couldn't begin to understand.

You are not able to explain, which shows you likely do not understand. That
is OK. I cannot explain French verb conjugation well, either, and would not
likely try to in a public forum.



--

"Snit's so f*cking stupid he thinks the sigma lines are drawn based on
distance from the mean, not area under the curve." - Brad cc Wiggins

Fact: the first sigma is defined by the distance from the mean to the
inflection points.

[Snit]

On 5/18/13 8:15 AM, in article
1l32qaw.1rs3ahm1qicswbN%sn...@spambin.fsnet.co.uk, "Sn!pe"
<sn...@spambin.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

> Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>
>> ∆§ ƒå® å§ håπ∂Ï¡πg måπÿ çhå®åç†è®§, ‡ †h¡πk ¡† ¡§ §åƒè †◊ §åÿ †hå†
>> ∑π†®◊ú®ågè håπ∂Ïè§ †hèm ∫ú§† ƒ¡πè. ‡ åm çú®¡◊ú§ h◊w †h¡§ w¡ÏÏ "ç◊mè ßåçk" å§
>> ÿ◊ú qú◊†è ¡†. ¶è®håp§ ÿ◊ú® Û§èπè† ®èå∂è® w¡ÏÏ ß®èåk †h¡πg§? Måÿßè π◊†. ‡†
>> §håÏÏ ßè å ƒúπ †è§†.
>

> Looking good here, Snit.

But Jeff-Relf seems to believe this should not work with Entourage.

Could it be he is wrong? Is that even possible? I mean, after all, he knows
all about how Usenet is a form of email... with deep understanding of
Internet technology how could he be wrong? :)


--
"There are 'extremists' in the free software world, but that's one major
reason why I don't call what I do 'free software' any more. I don't want to
be associated with the people for whom it's about exclusion and hatred."
-- Linus Torvalds

[GreyCloud]

[GreyCloud]

It doesn't take much to entertain a freetard like yourself.

[Jeff-Relf.Me]

Entourage ( Mr. Snit's newsreader ) can't detect/quote UTF⋅8 properly;
instead, it uses inappropriate charsets and converts glyphs to '?'.
This ( above ) is a FACT, I see him misquoting me time and again.

Google Groups, Mozilla Thunderbird and Windows Live Mail,
gMail, Hotmail and Yahoo properly detect/quote UTF⋅8.

Instead of admitting it, instead of acknowledging his faults,
he harps on "Usenet is unrelated to email" to cover up his FAIL.
He might as well be using BACKWATER emacs.
⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅
HTML <A> tags are useful, I put them in my CraigsList posts.
slrn could convert them to footnotes, by the way,
instead of forcing me to abandon <A> tags when addressing slrn users.

Why hasn't John E. Davis✼ hasn't commented on this ?
[ ✼: the man who wrote/maintains slrn ]

[Snit]

On 5/18/13 3:11 PM, in article Jeff-R...@May.18{15.11.Seattle.2013},

"Jeff-Relf.Me" <@.> wrote:

> Entourage ( Mr. Snit's newsreader ) can't detect/quote UTF⋅8 properly;

While it is the Usenet reader I use, it is not mine. But if you think
Entourage does not handle UTF-8 correctly then please show the evidence.

Then explain why it matters for someone such as me who uses English-only
groups where ASCII is sufficient.

Bottom line: you will not.

You are trying to sound knowledgeable and intelligent... but you are
failing.

> instead, it uses inappropriate charsets and converts glyphs to '?'.
> This ( above ) is a FACT, I see him misquoting me time and again.

You have already been shown that I convert your poorly formatted messages to
plain text:

<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/RespondingToBrokenPosts.mp4>

> Google Groups, Mozilla Thunderbird and Windows Live Mail,
> gMail, Hotmail and Yahoo properly detect/quote UTF⋅8.
>
> Instead of admitting it, instead of acknowledging his faults,

My faults? Even if Entourage has a problem it is surely not *my* fault. And
I am not the one having the problem with it. You claim to be.

> he harps on "Usenet is unrelated to email" to cover up his FAIL.

You have yet to note my "failing"... but you are avoiding your own "fail":

Jeff-Relf:
-----
Usenet is a form of email.
-----
Most anything that can handle emails, also handles Usenet; including
HTML emails/posts.
-----

You also claimed it took you weeks to configure Windows 8, a task most users
do in much less time, and showed great pride in minor capabilities such as
configuring a mouse or setting fonts.

You simply are not technically knowledgeable. That is fine. I am poor with
foreign languages. We each have strengths and weaknesses.

> He might as well be using BACKWATER emacs.

In my UNIX command line days, I never was an emacs fan. I preferred vi for
editing and tin for Usenet.

> ⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅⋅
> HTML <A> tags are useful, I put them in my CraigsList posts.

I doubt many people would buy an A tag!

> slrn could convert them to footnotes, by the way,
> instead of forcing me to abandon <A> tags when addressing slrn users.
>
> Why hasn't John E. Davis✼ hasn't commented on this ?
> [ ✼: the man who wrote/maintains slrn ]

--
"I started Linux as a desktop operating system. And it's the only area
where Linux hasn't completely taken over. That just annoys the hell out
of me." -- Linus Torvalds

[Peter Köhlmann]

wrote:

> Entourage ( Mr. Snit's newsreader ) can't detect/quote UTF⋅8 properly;
> instead, it uses inappropriate charsets and converts glyphs to '?'.
> This ( above ) is a FACT, I see him misquoting me time and again.

You are Relf, and it shows.
Idiocy is your mode of operation

[Anonymous]

In article <kn90o5$4b9$1...@dont-email.me>

Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter-k...@t-online.de> wrote:
>
> wrote:
>

> > Entourage ( Mr. Snit's newsreader ) can't detect/quote UTF?8 properly;

> > instead, it uses inappropriate charsets and converts glyphs to '?'.
> > This ( above ) is a FACT, I see him misquoting me time and again.
>
> You are Relf, and it shows.
> Idiocy is your mode of operation

Yawn.

[Minty Fresh]

Which reminds me, I need to learn a piece of proprietary software
that is Linux/GNU/Unix based. I could wish it was free. If they
made a limited form free for practice purposes, since it marketed
to "medium sized" businesses, I think it would be used more widely
by businesses.

It's not retarded to use freeware if it does what needed.

The sales system sold this computer with Vista 32 bit, but now
it a computer with a stable 64 bit OS. I have a piece of window
software running under wine (free version) and it does run with
all the same faults it had running under Vista and earlier MS OS.
When this machine ran Vista is was crash master, blue screens of death,
finally the mouse didn't work even the one with the wire to the
box. What a mess that was. I loaded a version of Ubuntu and she
treated me nice. No crashes, the mouse and hardware thrived.
I tried assorted distros, Ubuntu changed (to something that looks
a bit like W8 before W8) so I went with Mint Mate LTS plus Libreoffice 4.0.
Which does seem to play nicely with Word by way of export. Word
less so. The MS ribbon is a bit of a waste of screen space, IMO and
I prefer menus. Granted the ribbon is passable. Looks like change
for the sake of change which is .....................<snip>

A proprietary-tard for the moment
and less so when up to speed......Trig

[GreyCloud]

Which software title?

> When this machine ran Vista is was crash master, blue screens of death,
> finally the mouse didn't work even the one with the wire to the
> box. What a mess that was. I loaded a version of Ubuntu and she
> treated me nice. No crashes, the mouse and hardware thrived.
> I tried assorted distros, Ubuntu changed (to something that looks
> a bit like W8 before W8) so I went with Mint Mate LTS plus Libreoffice 4.0.
> Which does seem to play nicely with Word by way of export. Word
> less so. The MS ribbon is a bit of a waste of screen space, IMO and
> I prefer menus. Granted the ribbon is passable. Looks like change
> for the sake of change which is .....................<snip>
>

Now just try to play your favorite dvd from a US based distro. Won't
happen.

> A proprietary-tard for the moment
> and less so when up to speed......Trig
>

I don't have the problems with win7. Before, it was OS X Snow Leopard.
And neither of them have ever crashed. You do know why BSODs happen
don't you? Or why UNIX or Linux can give you a kernel panic?
90% of the time it is bad ram.

[Minty Fresh]

> Which software title?

The one I need (should) to learn or the one I have and run in wine.
The former is Oracle's Enterprise One and the latter is well not
something I don't want to share.
Getting back to the former it runs on MS-OS, Unix, and Linux. Its
just that the company is dipping it toe into Linux as it can. Most of
it machines are still XP. New management and new ideas, more legal ideas
and practices. It is amazing some times what biz gets away with.

>
>
>
> > When this machine ran Vista is was crash master, blue screens of death,
>
> > finally the mouse didn't work even the one with the wire to the
>
> > box. What a mess that was. I loaded a version of Ubuntu and she
>
> > treated me nice. No crashes, the mouse and hardware thrived.
>
> > I tried assorted distros, Ubuntu changed (to something that looks
>
> > a bit like W8 before W8) so I went with Mint Mate LTS plus Libreoffice 4.0.
>
> > Which does seem to play nicely with Word by way of export. Word
>
> > less so. The MS ribbon is a bit of a waste of screen space, IMO and
>
> > I prefer menus. Granted the ribbon is passable. Looks like change
>
> > for the sake of change which is .....................<snip>
>
> >
>
>
>
> Now just try to play your favorite dvd from a US based distro. Won't
>
> happen.

I popped in a DVD and it runs. I suppose its a US based DVD.

>
>
>
> > A proprietary-tard for the moment
>
> > and less so when up to speed......Trig
>
> >
>
>
>
> I don't have the problems with win7. Before, it was OS X Snow Leopard.
>
> And neither of them have ever crashed. You do know why BSODs happen
>
> don't you? Or why UNIX or Linux can give you a kernel panic?
>
> 90% of the time it is bad ram.

Given that this machine has been sweet to me since the demise of its
first OS, Vista, it would seem to be in the later 10 percent.
But I take your point as machines been ever more complex the diagnosis
of problems becomes matters of guilt by association.

With OSes, I am looking for ways to less change for change sake.
Plus I love being free of software that "phones" home for
approval.
For many office functions and for just about all home functions,
I can't see using a proprietary app as it stands. But then I am
simple man.

I won't hold my breath on Linux or MS or Apple, it could all be
swept away in the not to near future by something different.

[GreyCloud]

On 5/19/2013 5:15 PM, Minty Fresh wrote:
>
>> Which software title?
>
> The one I need (should) to learn or the one I have and run in wine.
> The former is Oracle's Enterprise One and the latter is well not
> something I don't want to share.
> Getting back to the former it runs on MS-OS, Unix, and Linux. Its
> just that the company is dipping it toe into Linux as it can. Most of
> it machines are still XP. New management and new ideas, more legal ideas
> and practices. It is amazing some times what biz gets away with.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>> When this machine ran Vista is was crash master, blue screens of death,
>>
>>> finally the mouse didn't work even the one with the wire to the
>>
>>> box. What a mess that was. I loaded a version of Ubuntu and she
>>
>>> treated me nice. No crashes, the mouse and hardware thrived.
>>
>>> I tried assorted distros, Ubuntu changed (to something that looks
>>
>>> a bit like W8 before W8) so I went with Mint Mate LTS plus Libreoffice 4.0.
>>
>>> Which does seem to play nicely with Word by way of export. Word
>>
>>> less so. The MS ribbon is a bit of a waste of screen space, IMO and
>>
>>> I prefer menus. Granted the ribbon is passable. Looks like change
>>
>>> for the sake of change which is .....................<snip>
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Now just try to play your favorite dvd from a US based distro. Won't
>>
>> happen.
>
> I popped in a DVD and it runs. I suppose its a US based DVD.
>

Just that any distro downloaded from a US site, doesn't have any support
for commercial dvds (movies). I ran into the same problem in Solaris.
Reason? DRM.

>>
>>
>>
>>> A proprietary-tard for the moment
>>
>>> and less so when up to speed......Trig
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't have the problems with win7. Before, it was OS X Snow Leopard.
>>
>> And neither of them have ever crashed. You do know why BSODs happen
>>
>> don't you? Or why UNIX or Linux can give you a kernel panic?
>>
>> 90% of the time it is bad ram.
>
> Given that this machine has been sweet to me since the demise of its
> first OS, Vista, it would seem to be in the later 10 percent.
> But I take your point as machines been ever more complex the diagnosis
> of problems becomes matters of guilt by association.
>
> With OSes, I am looking for ways to less change for change sake.
> Plus I love being free of software that "phones" home for
> approval.
> For many office functions and for just about all home functions,
> I can't see using a proprietary app as it stands. But then I am
> simple man.
>
> I won't hold my breath on Linux or MS or Apple, it could all be
> swept away in the not to near future by something different.
>

I understand. The only reason I'm running Win7 is because there are far
more software titles for it. Snow Leopard was probably the leanest and
fastest os that Apple made, but they also kept dumping code templates
out of Xcode. It used to have templates for Ruby, Tk/Tcl, Java, etc.
Now it is just oriented toward Objective-C. But the real problem is
stagnation in all platforms. It used to be an exciting industry, but
the ones that made it go are now gone. (SGI, DEC, Apollo, Prime,
HoneyWell, etc.)
Even a new Amiga would be better.

[Minty Fresh]

I almost never watch DVDs and what I popped in was certainly outlier.

They've worked in the past but that was a while ago likely in Ubuntu.

I'll have to watch this more carefully. I'd rent a DVD but frankly
I don't have the spare time. My guilty pleasure is the usenet.

[chrisv]

Minty Fresh wrote:

>> Reason? DRM.
>
>I almost never watch DVDs and what I popped in was certainly outlier.

Who cares if there's a small effort to enable DVD viewing on a
freaking computer, anyway? It's like bitching that you have to
install a game before playing it.

Anyone, "some" of us have things called DVD players, televisions, even
home theaters, which are used to watch DVD's.

--
'Riiiiight. Those 100's of millions of people who bought Apple
products are all some cult. Not like the half-dozen open minded
"thinkers" here who treat Linux as if it were some sort of religion.'
- trolling fsckwit "Ezekiel"

[JEDIDIAH]

On 2013-05-20, chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Minty Fresh wrote:
>
>>> Reason? DRM.
>>
>>I almost never watch DVDs and what I popped in was certainly outlier.
>
> Who cares if there's a small effort to enable DVD viewing on a
> freaking computer, anyway? It's like bitching that you have to
> install a game before playing it.
>
> Anyone, "some" of us have things called DVD players, televisions, even
> home theaters, which are used to watch DVD's.

HTPCs are much better though. Although it gets even better once you
dispence with physical media entirely. Playing a DVD directly is really
a very quait idea that should be considered hopelessly out of date by
now.

It's a nice delivery format though. Also allows for the preservation
of personal property rights.

--

Apple: Being able to install Firefox or VLC makes you a power user. |||
/ | \

[GreyCloud]

Ah, then that explains that.
I don't know why a company like Oracle doesn't supply a good working dvd
player. One can get their complete compiler set now for free if you
download their os. Or, like I did a while back, purchase for $35 their
package of dvds that do include everything.

The one main problem I'm looking at right now with Scientific Linux is
removing all of the OpenJDK and replacing it with Oracles latest JDK.
I keep running into errors during the removal process that some package
relies on OpenJDK, so I aborted that procedure.
I may reinstall it using a different policy by not using any of the
development tools and later adding them one at a time after I get JDK
installed first. Maybe that will solve the problem.

[Sinister Midget]

On 2013-05-20, JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> claimed:

> On 2013-05-20, chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> Minty Fresh wrote:
>>
>>>> Reason? DRM.
>>>
>>>I almost never watch DVDs and what I popped in was certainly outlier.
>>
>> Who cares if there's a small effort to enable DVD viewing on a
>> freaking computer, anyway? It's like bitching that you have to
>> install a game before playing it.
>>
>> Anyone, "some" of us have things called DVD players, televisions, even
>> home theaters, which are used to watch DVD's.
>
> HTPCs are much better though. Although it gets even better once you
> dispence with physical media entirely. Playing a DVD directly is really
> a very quait idea that should be considered hopelessly out of date by
> now.

But it's "state of the art" Windopes INNOVA~1.

> It's a nice delivery format though. Also allows for the preservation
> of personal property rights.

Once I see most things once I don't care much if I see them again any
time soon. Durable preservation of movies and the like really isn't one
of my "gottas" for existence.

Nearly anything I stream can be captured and preserved. Most of what I
want doesn't need to be streamed in the first place. I stream my music
on my tablet, but I already own it at home (with backups). I only
watch movies to be entertained the first time. After that I play
movies or other things for background noise to fit my mood or help my
concentration. (/IF/ I watch any of it, that will be incidental to why
it's there.) There are gazillions of things that work for that on Hulu,
Netflix and Crackle, whether I've ever seen them before or not.

--
Unless you're the lead dog, the view never changes.

[Minty Fresh]

What the heck. Speed reading? Oracle has NOTHING to do with my DVD playing.
It has some software I love to learn. Think job/employment.

I seriously doubt my DVD software has any sort of issue. I've used
VLC in both MS and Linux/GNU. Plus if I had the time and
inclination I could proxy download the nearly everything in assorted
formats.

Fear not I have neither but I am aware if only numbly so.

>
>
>
> The one main problem I'm looking at right now with Scientific Linux is
>
> removing all of the OpenJDK and replacing it with Oracles latest JDK.
>
> I keep running into errors during the removal process that some package
>
> relies on OpenJDK, so I aborted that procedure.
>
> I may reinstall it using a different policy by not using any of the
>
> development tools and later adding them one at a time after I get JDK
>
> installed first. Maybe that will solve the problem.

This is beyond the scope of my interest though my distro uses OpenJDK
for what it worth. Scientific Linux didn't offer any extra science
so I didn't consider it beyond that point. I was reading about
the extra secure distros but I got distracted which is normal for me.

Trig

[Sinister Midget]

On 2013-05-21, Minty Fresh <trigonom...@gmail.com> claimed:

> On Monday, May 20, 2013 10:34:10 AM UTC-7, GreyCloud wrote:

>> Ah, then that explains that.
>>
>> I don't know why a company like Oracle doesn't supply a good working dvd
>>
>> player. One can get their complete compiler set now for free if you
>>
>> download their os. Or, like I did a while back, purchase for $35 their
>>
>> package of dvds that do include everything.
>
>
> What the heck. Speed reading? Oracle has NOTHING to do with my DVD playing.
> It has some software I love to learn. Think job/employment.

Greyclot has lost himself. Senility/Alzheimer's does that.

--
Freedom is just chaos with better lighting.

[Steve]

Jeff-Relf.Me <@.> wrote in news:Jeff-R...@May.18{15.11.Seattle.2013}:

> Entourage ( Mr. Snit's newsreader ) can't detect/quote UTF�<.8 properly;

> instead, it uses inappropriate charsets and converts glyphs to '?'.

So fucking what.
Get a job, or a hobby, you tedious cunt.

[GreyCloud]

I'm just showing that Linux isn't the only one suffering from the DRM.

> I seriously doubt my DVD software has any sort of issue. I've used
> VLC in both MS and Linux/GNU. Plus if I had the time and
> inclination I could proxy download the nearly everything in assorted
> formats.

A while back VLC had a one-button install on their website and loaded up
all the necessary libs and programs necessary to play dvds (movies).
It was for an older version of OpenSuse and it worked pretty good.

The latter versions for OpenSuse don't work for some reason.

>
> Fear not I have neither but I am aware if only numbly so.
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> The one main problem I'm looking at right now with Scientific Linux is
>>
>> removing all of the OpenJDK and replacing it with Oracles latest JDK.
>>
>> I keep running into errors during the removal process that some package
>>
>> relies on OpenJDK, so I aborted that procedure.
>>
>> I may reinstall it using a different policy by not using any of the
>>
>> development tools and later adding them one at a time after I get JDK
>>
>> installed first. Maybe that will solve the problem.
>
> This is beyond the scope of my interest though my distro uses OpenJDK
> for what it worth. Scientific Linux didn't offer any extra science
> so I didn't consider it beyond that point. I was reading about
> the extra secure distros but I got distracted which is normal for me.
>

I found that out as well. Not much in scientific software. But at
least it appears to be quite stable under VMWares free vm.
The secure distros are based on what NSA had done for linux. Not sure
if others trust them, but it appears to be good for now.
NSA worked on parts of the linux kernel in one of their on-line articles
and found several weaknesses and fixed them.

[GreyCloud]

[JEDIDIAH]

On 2013-05-20, Sinister Midget <fardb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2013-05-20, JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> claimed:
>> On 2013-05-20, chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>> Minty Fresh wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Reason? DRM.
>>>>
>>>>I almost never watch DVDs and what I popped in was certainly outlier.
>>>
>>> Who cares if there's a small effort to enable DVD viewing on a
>>> freaking computer, anyway? It's like bitching that you have to
>>> install a game before playing it.
>>>
>>> Anyone, "some" of us have things called DVD players, televisions, even
>>> home theaters, which are used to watch DVD's.
>>
>> HTPCs are much better though. Although it gets even better once you
>> dispence with physical media entirely. Playing a DVD directly is really
>> a very quait idea that should be considered hopelessly out of date by
>> now.
>
> But it's "state of the art" Windopes INNOVA~1.
>
>> It's a nice delivery format though. Also allows for the preservation
>> of personal property rights.
>
> Once I see most things once I don't care much if I see them again any

You only consume garbage. Got it.

[deletia]

If it's not worth watching twice, even over a long timeline, then it
probably wasn't worth watching once to begin with.

--
Apple: Because a large harddrive is for power users.
|||
/ | \

[chrisv]

JEDIDIAH wrote:

> Sinister Midget <fardb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Once I see most things once I don't care much if I see them again any
>
> You only consume garbage. Got it.
>
>[deletia]
>
> If it's not worth watching twice, even over a long timeline, then it
>probably wasn't worth watching once to begin with.

That's how I feel, too. I feel that *many* movies are worth repeat
watching, and own quite a few DVD's and BlyRay's, because of that.

--
"Have you tried Bing? I quite like it." - "True Linux advocate"
Hadron Quark

[Snit]

On 5/22/13 7:12 AM, in article slrnkppkh...@nomad.mishnet, "JEDIDIAH"
<je...@nomad.mishnet> wrote:

...

>>> It's a nice delivery format though. Also allows for the preservation
>>> of personal property rights.
>>
>> Once I see most things once I don't care much if I see them again any
>
> You only consume garbage. Got it.

What an amazing twisting of words. He did not say, suggest, or hint at that.
There is no reason to believe this.

But do not worry, your herd is unlikely to call you out on this. Since it
does not directly deal with the herd-myths I suppose they *might*. But I
doubt it.

> If it's not worth watching twice, even over a long timeline, then it
> probably wasn't worth watching once to begin with.

Or maybe you just do not share your opinion on this. I mean, really, how
absurd.


--
"[So and so] has targeted me, as psychopaths do." - Mark S. Bilk

Bilk thinks psychopaths target him... he has a bizarre sense of being
special and thinks people are out to get him. Very sad. I am sincere in my
offer to assist him in finding help in his area.

[JEDIDIAH]

On 2013-05-22, chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> JEDIDIAH wrote:
>
>> Sinister Midget <fardb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Once I see most things once I don't care much if I see them again any
>>
>> You only consume garbage. Got it.
>>
>>[deletia]
>>
>> If it's not worth watching twice, even over a long timeline, then it
>>probably wasn't worth watching once to begin with.
>
> That's how I feel, too. I feel that *many* movies are worth repeat
> watching, and own quite a few DVD's and BlyRay's, because of that.

Plus you can lend them or resell them or take advantage of the fact that
someone else can lend them or resell them. Stuff doesn't just disappear because
the publisher decided to "put it back in the vault" or "screw over Netflix".

Stuff can remain available and even experience price elasticity all because
the individual copies are personal property in the control of individuals rather
than entirely under the control of some Media Conglomerate.

[Sinister Midget]

On 2013-05-22, JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> claimed:

> On 2013-05-22, chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>>> If it's not worth watching twice, even over a long timeline, then it
>>>probably wasn't worth watching once to begin with.
>>
>> That's how I feel, too. I feel that *many* movies are worth repeat
>> watching, and own quite a few DVD's and BlyRay's, because of that.
>
> Plus you can lend them or resell them or take advantage of the fact that
> someone else can lend them or resell them. Stuff doesn't just disappear because
> the publisher decided to "put it back in the vault" or "screw over Netflix".

I'm glad we're all the same.

I watch movies more than once. But that's rare. Very rare. I generally
watch anything once and lose interest in any future viewing because I
already know all of the significant details. That knowledge causes me
to enjoy it less, often not much at all.

But since we're all the same, I guess I should start storing all of the
movies I'm not very likely to watch ever again.

That is what I was talking about before, my own preferences? I thought
it was, anyway. Here, I thought the decisons were mine. I completely
forgot about the collective.....

> Stuff can remain available and even experience price elasticity all because
> the individual copies are personal property in the control of individuals rather
> than entirely under the control of some Media Conglomerate.

Then do what you do and save them. I'll do what I do and not care about
saving them.

BTW, I never talked this over with my wife and son. But being the
observer that I am, I find they almost never watch the same thing
multiple times either. There are a few exceptions. But the exceptions
are exactly that. I concluded that they aren't altogether different in
that regard from me.

My wife is _VERY_ picky about movies she'll even bother with, except
when she's trying to humor my son or me. Plus, her music habits are
even stricter than my own. Whereas I can play things I have over and
over as background (usually paying attention only to the mood, not the
music itself), she wants to be rid of it completely after a couple of
listens.

I used to have a lot of movies. Gobs and gobs of movies. I never played
them after the first time. I might sometimes pull one out when a
friend was over. But that would be for their entertainment, not mine.
Anyway, they wasted a lot of space, so I dumped them at a Goodwill or
Salvation Army or something.

--
I failed attitude in school.

[Snit]

On 5/22/13 5:12 PM, in article 1h307a-...@dogbreath.harry.net, "Sinister

Midget" <fardb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2013-05-22, JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> claimed:
>> On 2013-05-22, chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> If it's not worth watching twice, even over a long timeline, then it
>>>> probably wasn't worth watching once to begin with.
>>>
>>> That's how I feel, too. I feel that *many* movies are worth repeat
>>> watching, and own quite a few DVD's and BlyRay's, because of that.
>>>
>> Plus you can lend them or resell them or take advantage of the fact that
>> someone else can lend them or resell them. Stuff doesn't just disappear
>> because the publisher decided to "put it back in the vault" or "screw over
>> Netflix".
>
> I'm glad we're all the same.
>
> I watch movies more than once. But that's rare. Very rare. I generally
> watch anything once and lose interest in any future viewing because I
> already know all of the significant details. That knowledge causes me
> to enjoy it less, often not much at all.
>
> But since we're all the same, I guess I should start storing all of the
> movies I'm not very likely to watch ever again.
>
> That is what I was talking about before, my own preferences? I thought
> it was, anyway. Here, I thought the decisons were mine. I completely
> forgot about the collective.....

The is COLA... where the "advocates" think we should all be the same and
share the same preferences and there should be limited if any choice.

>> Stuff can remain available and even experience price elasticity all because
>> the individual copies are personal property in the control of individuals
>> rather than entirely under the control of some Media Conglomerate.
>
> Then do what you do and save them. I'll do what I do and not care about
> saving them.
>
> BTW, I never talked this over with my wife and son. But being the
> observer that I am, I find they almost never watch the same thing
> multiple times either. There are a few exceptions. But the exceptions
> are exactly that. I concluded that they aren't altogether different in
> that regard from me.

Nor am I. Or many other people. But is it herd approved behavior?

> My wife is _VERY_ picky about movies she'll even bother with, except
> when she's trying to humor my son or me. Plus, her music habits are
> even stricter than my own. Whereas I can play things I have over and
> over as background (usually paying attention only to the mood, not the
> music itself), she wants to be rid of it completely after a couple of
> listens.
>
> I used to have a lot of movies. Gobs and gobs of movies. I never played
> them after the first time. I might sometimes pull one out when a
> friend was over. But that would be for their entertainment, not mine.
> Anyway, they wasted a lot of space, so I dumped them at a Goodwill or
> Salvation Army or something.



--

"Necrophilia would be my second choice for what should be done with my
corpse, the first being scientific or medical use." -- Richard Stallman

[JEDIDIAH]

On 2013-05-23, Sinister Midget <fardb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2013-05-22, JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> claimed:
>> On 2013-05-22, chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> If it's not worth watching twice, even over a long timeline, then it
>>>>probably wasn't worth watching once to begin with.
>>>
>>> That's how I feel, too. I feel that *many* movies are worth repeat
>>> watching, and own quite a few DVD's and BlyRay's, because of that.
>>
>> Plus you can lend them or resell them or take advantage of the fact that
>> someone else can lend them or resell them. Stuff doesn't just disappear because
>> the publisher decided to "put it back in the vault" or "screw over Netflix".
>
> I'm glad we're all the same.
>
> I watch movies more than once. But that's rare. Very rare. I generally
> watch anything once and lose interest in any future viewing because I
> already know all of the significant details. That knowledge causes me
> to enjoy it less, often not much at all.
>
> But since we're all the same,

...you can't see past the end of your own nose at this precise instant in time.

[deletia]

You can't even see your own nose a minute from now.

[Sinister Midget]

On 2013-05-23, JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> claimed:

> On 2013-05-23, Sinister Midget <fardb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2013-05-22, JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> claimed:
>>> On 2013-05-22, chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>>> If it's not worth watching twice, even over a long timeline, then it
>>>>>probably wasn't worth watching once to begin with.
>>>>
>>>> That's how I feel, too. I feel that *many* movies are worth repeat
>>>> watching, and own quite a few DVD's and BlyRay's, because of that.
>>>
>>> Plus you can lend them or resell them or take advantage of the fact that
>>> someone else can lend them or resell them. Stuff doesn't just disappear because
>>> the publisher decided to "put it back in the vault" or "screw over Netflix".
>>
>> I'm glad we're all the same.
>>
>> I watch movies more than once. But that's rare. Very rare. I generally
>> watch anything once and lose interest in any future viewing because I
>> already know all of the significant details. That knowledge causes me
>> to enjoy it less, often not much at all.
>>
>> But since we're all the same,
>
> ...you can't see past the end of your own nose at this precise instant in time.

The ol' pot and kettle applies.

> [deletia]
>
> You can't even see your own nose a minute from now.

Whatever that's supposed to mean...

(Good sigmonster!)

--
My last cow just died, so I won't need your bull anymore.

[GreyCloud]

[JEDIDIAH]

On 2013-05-23, Sinister Midget <fardb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2013-05-23, JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> claimed:
>> On 2013-05-23, Sinister Midget <fardb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 2013-05-22, JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> claimed:
>>>> On 2013-05-22, chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> If it's not worth watching twice, even over a long timeline, then it
>>>>>>probably wasn't worth watching once to begin with.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's how I feel, too. I feel that *many* movies are worth repeat
>>>>> watching, and own quite a few DVD's and BlyRay's, because of that.
>>>>
>>>> Plus you can lend them or resell them or take advantage of the fact that
>>>> someone else can lend them or resell them. Stuff doesn't just disappear because
>>>> the publisher decided to "put it back in the vault" or "screw over Netflix".
>>>
>>> I'm glad we're all the same.
>>>
>>> I watch movies more than once. But that's rare. Very rare. I generally
>>> watch anything once and lose interest in any future viewing because I
>>> already know all of the significant details. That knowledge causes me
>>> to enjoy it less, often not much at all.
>>>
>>> But since we're all the same,
>>
>> ...you can't see past the end of your own nose at this precise instant in time.
>
> The ol' pot and kettle applies.

No. You will have to do a little bit better than that sort of elementary
school grade "rubber and glue" nonsense.

[deletia]

--
Linux: Because I don't want to push pretty buttons. |||
I want the pretty buttons to push themelves. / | \

[Sinister Midget]

On 2013-05-24, JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> claimed:

> On 2013-05-23, Sinister Midget <fardb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2013-05-23, JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> claimed:
>>> On 2013-05-23, Sinister Midget <fardb...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>> But since we're all the same,
>>>
>>> ...you can't see past the end of your own nose at this precise instant in time.
>>
>> The ol' pot and kettle applies.
>
> No. You will have to do a little bit better than that sort of elementary
> school grade "rubber and glue" nonsense.

Why? Your retort wasn't any more intellectually-elevated.

--
Why did Kamikaze pilots wear helmets???

[Soupe du Jour]

On Wed, 22 May 2013 19:12:49 -0500, Sinister Midget wrote:


>
> I watch movies more than once. But that's rare. Very rare. I generally
> watch anything once and lose interest in any future viewing because I
> already know all of the significant details. That knowledge causes me
> to enjoy it less, often not much at all.

I watch things more than once, although it's often a few years before I
do so.

What I really like about owning physical media is that I can loan them to
friends. I can't count the number of times that I've done this over the
years.

[JEDIDIAH]

On 2013-06-04, Soupe du Jour <soupedu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 22 May 2013 19:12:49 -0500, Sinister Midget wrote:
>
>
>>
>> I watch movies more than once. But that's rare. Very rare. I generally
>> watch anything once and lose interest in any future viewing because I
>> already know all of the significant details. That knowledge causes me
>> to enjoy it less, often not much at all.
>
> I watch things more than once, although it's often a few years before I
> do so.

Some really cool things can be difficult to find. That's one of the
reasons that I originally signed up for Netflix in the beginning (way
before streaming). It's difficult to find a lot of things that aren't
the latest blockbuster. Being able to buy, sell, trade, rent, borrow
media enables the market to be in control of what's available rather
than the Media Mogul who can choose to "put stuff back in the vault"
any time they like.

Once I have something, it doesn't matter if it takes 10 years before
I am interested in something again. Digital media allows things to be
immortal, especially if you are the one in control.

--
Nothing quite gives you an understanding of Oracle's |||
continued popularity as does an attempt to do some / | \
simple date manipulations in postgres.