How to make Linux totally crazy
Pravda
cat /dev/console
Press RETURN. Watch as your computer goes out of its mind and becomes totally
unresponsive. Better not click that mouse button in the wrong place if you don't
want to see one billion windows being opened with no way to stop the madness.
The only way to regain control is to pull the plug.
My question to you is: is this the behavior of a serious operating system or is
this the behavior of a fucking toy?
Regards,
Pravda
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
>
> Open a terminal window. Type:
>
> cat /dev/console
cat: /dev/console: Permission denied
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Plaese porrf raed befre postng.
ray
Patient: Doc, it hurts when I do this!
Doctor: Well, don't do that!
flatfish+++
> Pravda wrote:
>>
>> Open a terminal window. Type:
>>
>> cat /dev/console
>
> cat: /dev/console: Permission denied
Not on mine.
As a user it fscks the entire system up.
Even after closing the terminal window the mouse does funny things,
windows pop up and just every weird behavior happens.
I had to shutdown to return the system to normal.
[flatfish@localhost dev]$ ls -al console
crw------- 1 flatfish root 5, 1 Sep 17 22:33 console
[flatfish@localhost dev]$
Roy Schestowitz
Pravda,
sudo rm -rf /
Or how about humping an 800-pound crocodile?
Windows: press CTRL+ALT+DELETE+DELETE+DELETE. Quicker than opening a shell
and typing in c+a+t+ +/+d+e+v+/+c+o+n+s+o+l+e
Bob Hauck
> Open a terminal window. Type:
>
> cat /dev/console
>
> Press RETURN. Watch as your computer goes out of its mind and becomes
> totally unresponsive.
bobh@bigbird:~$ cat /dev/console
cat: /dev/console: Permission denied
Oh, maybe you meant to do it as root. But, why bother with such things?
Root can always just do "rm -f /" and be done with it. Maybe you should
try that.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| A proud member of the unhinged moonbat horde.
-| http://www.haucks.org/
Freeride
> Oh, maybe you meant to do it as root. But, why bother with such things?
> Root can always just do "rm -f /" and be done with it. Maybe you should
> try that.
He is a Windows user so he does not know any better, remember many many
Windows application do requires Administator rights to work.
AZ Nomad
Even if the program can run for a limited user, they're a pain in the
ass to setup.
Set user to limited; log in as user and try app. Run into a setting that
requires user be an administrator; log out; log in as admin; change user to
an admin; log out; log in as user; make setting change; log out; log back
in as admin; set user back to limited user; log out; log back in as
limited user.
Run-as typically doesn't work as the application will run on the
administrator's settings.
![[H]omer's profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWMQWyYwHeIwxhG3nGUeGWmLQD0R8TeZrvdWDiv5-2S_z3rHg=s40-c)
[H]omer
> Pravda wrote:
>> Open a terminal window. Type:
>>
>> cat /dev/console
#] format c:
And?
> cat: /dev/console: Permission denied
Oh but Windows users have superuser privileges by default, thus making
it easier to screw up, remember.
--
K.
http://slated.org - Slated, Rated & Blogged
Beware the Penguin:
http://www.victorialodging.com/video/Never_Trust_A_Penguin.mpg
Fedora Core release 5 (Bordeaux) on sky, running kernel 2.6.16-1.2133_FC5
05:55:44 up 92 days, 6:12, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
Roy Schestowitz
> Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
>> Pravda wrote:
>>> Open a terminal window. Type:
>>>
>>> cat /dev/console
>
> #] format c:
>
> And?
>
>> cat: /dev/console: Permission denied
>
> Oh but Windows users have superuser privileges by default, thus making
> it easier to screw up, remember.
Replace "users" with "viruses" or "intruders".
Roy Schestowitz
I'll try to remember this. Worth a HOWTO. ANd they say Windows boasts ease of
use...
> Run-as typically doesn't work as the application will run on the
> administrator's settings.
C:/> Run-as
[Press tab]
C:/> Run-as-idiot
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
why'd you change the ownership to your user, from root?
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--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
Honesty may be the best policy, but insanity is a better defense.
Peter Köhlmann
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 22:39:22 -0400,
> flatfish+++ <flat...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 19:01:41 -0700, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
>>
>>> Pravda wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Open a terminal window. Type:
>>>>
>>>> cat /dev/console
>>>
>>> cat: /dev/console: Permission denied
>>
>>
>> Not on mine.
>>
>> As a user it fscks the entire system up.
>> Even after closing the terminal window the mouse does funny things,
>> windows pop up and just every weird behavior happens.
>> I had to shutdown to return the system to normal.
>>
>> [flatfish@localhost dev]$ ls -al console
>> crw------- 1 flatfish root 5, 1 Sep 17 22:33 console
>> [flatfish@localhost dev]$
>>
>>
>
> why'd you change the ownership to your user, from root?
>
Because otherwise he would not be able to screw up
Naturally he will now claim that those with correct (untampered) settings
are of the "works here" crowd. And then Hadron Quark will chime in to
assist flatfish
--
Another name for a Windows tutorial is crash course
Richard Rasker
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 01:49:25 +0000 (UTC), Pravda <pra...@xxxxxxx.net> wrote:
>
>> Open a terminal window. Type:
>>
>> cat /dev/console
>>
>> Press RETURN. Watch as your computer goes out of its mind and becomes
>> totally unresponsive.
>
> bobh@bigbird:~$ cat /dev/console
> cat: /dev/console: Permission denied
>
> Oh, maybe you meant to do it as root. But, why bother with such things?
> Root can always just do "rm -f /" and be done with it. Maybe you should
> try that.
I guess mr. Truth is a bit confused, and considers an OS "serious" if it
would contain all kinds of artificial limitations to prevent the (root)
user from doing wild ass stupid things or inflicting damage.
By his standards, those flashy, coin operated bumper cars (read: Windows)
are more "serious" vehicles than normal cars (read: any other OS).
Richard Rasker
--
Linetec Translation and Technology Services
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
the mtime is interesting too. Suggesting he's using a distro with
devfs, (most have it now) and that it was booted at that time. (devfs
creates the /dev/ tree dynamically) Now, it's possible that FF has
discovered a bug in that distro... I said it was *possible*...
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--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
"We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in
tolerance and free speech," - David Brin
Bob
Yes, I am sure that your average know-nothing computer user is VERY
likely to navigate to the delightful commandline and accidentally type
out such an obtuse command.
--
http://robertlindsay.blogspot.com/
spi...@freenet.co.uk
> Open a terminal window. Type:
> cat /dev/console
Permission denied.
> Press RETURN. Watch as your computer goes out of its mind and becomes totally
> unresponsive.
There's a reason you don't run everything as root.
It's to prevent users from doing stupid things for no good reason.
Why don't you complain that root can also delete the entire filesystem,
reformat the hard drive, wipe it clean or randomise it?
Oh, and I did try it because I didn't believe you, and I was right not to,
big deal, you lose control of a console/terminal until you close it or kill
"cat", so what? There's no purpose to catting /dev/console anyway.
> Better not click that mouse button in the wrong place if you don't
> want to see one billion windows being opened with no way to stop the madness.
> The only way to regain control is to pull the plug.
What a load of bullcrap.
> My question to you is: is this the behavior of a serious operating system or is
> this the behavior of a fucking toy?
So, windows can get screwed up without ANY user intervention at all...
And linux is bad because it's possible to people to do stupid things as
superuser? Yeah, very poor troll
0/10
Next time you google for a flaw, try one that actually works.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| spi...@freenet.co.uk | Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| in |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pravda
>Yes, I am sure that your average know-nothing computer user is VERY
>likely to navigate to the delightful commandline and accidentally type
>out such an obtuse command.
I'm not saying that it can be done accidentally. But the sad thing is that you
can screw up a system with a single command and never regain control unless you
pull the plug.
Regards,
Pravda
Pravda
>why'd you change the ownership to your user, from root?
He probably didn't: I have the exact same permission flags as Flatfish and it
came configured that way. I never changed them. I'm running Red Hat.
Peter Köhlmann
You mean root should not be allowed to do crazy things?
--
Anyone can make an omelet with eggs. The trick is to make one with
none.
Pravda
>He is a Windows user so he does not know any better, remember many many
>Windows application do requires Administator rights to work.
I'm NOT a Windows user. I'm a Mac OS X AND Linux user.
Richard Rasker
> On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 19:01:41 -0700, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
>
>> Pravda wrote:
>>>
>>> Open a terminal window. Type:
>>>
>>> cat /dev/console
>>
>> cat: /dev/console: Permission denied
>
>
> Not on mine.
Even then, what's the point? It's completely trivial on almost any
computer to find a command that'll make the machine do the equivalent of
chasing its own tail, or render it unusable in another way. Hell, one of
the first "funny" things I did on a Commodore PET was a simple BASIC
routine along the lines of 10 POKE(8192*rnd(1),255*rnd(1)); GOTO 10, and
watch the machine lose its mind.
In Windows I guess you could just open a DOS box, cd to a directory
containing thousands of JPEGs (e.g. your favourite prawn collection), type
photoshop *, and press Enter. If photoshop indeed tries to open all of
them, you're in trouble.
> As a user it fscks the entire system up.
No, fsck is something completely different. It's used to clean up the mess
you morons leave behind by pulling the plug without good reason.
The cat /dev/console command only messes up the current user's X session,
not "the entire system".
> Even after closing the terminal window the mouse does funny things,
> windows pop up and just every weird behavior happens.
> I had to shutdown to return the system to normal.
Forcibly killing & restarting X by pressing Ctrl+Alt+Backspace would have
been sufficient, I gather. In Windows, can you recover from these
situations without rebooting?
All that you trolls proved here is that you're a bunch of dumbo baboons
who happened to find a loaded gun, and now complain that it shoots holes
in things when you pull the little bent thingy.
Pravda
>Oh, maybe you meant to do it as root. But, why bother with such things?
>Root can always just do "rm -f /" and be done with it. Maybe you should
>try that.
OK, everybody who is saying I'm running the command as root: I'm not! I ran the
command as a regular user and was able to screw up the entire computer as a
user.
I also never changed the permission flags on /dev/console : my distro (Red Hat)
came configured that way.
Regards,
Pravda
Peter Köhlmann
How come I don't believe you?
--
Don't steal. Microsoft hates competition.
Pravda
>How come I don't believe you?
Your problem, not mine.
Regards,
Pravda
Pravda
>Even then, what's the point? It's completely trivial on almost any
>computer to find a command that'll make the machine do the equivalent of
>chasing its own tail, or render it unusable in another way.
Sorry but I was never able to make OS X behave this way. I can *always* regain
control on OS X, whatever I do and whatever it's doing.
>Forcibly killing & restarting X by pressing Ctrl+Alt+Backspace would have
>been sufficient, I gather.
I tried. It didn't work. Evidently, the system wasn't listening.
Regards,
Pravda
spi...@freenet.co.uk
You can screw up the system with a single command and never regain control
without REINSTALLING... on ANY operating system.
Your point?
Oh, and the dooooom laden threats that cat /dev/console renders a machine
unusable until rebooted is fake too... I tried it, as root. It didn't do
anything to X itself, only the console it was typed into went haywire,
closing that and typing killall cat was enough to stop it.
What's all this reboot nonsense?
If X did go haywire... simply KILL X! Restart the window manager and
everything will return to normal, still no reboot required.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| spi...@freenet.co.uk | "I'm alive!!! I can touch! I can taste! |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| I can SMELL!!! KRYTEN!!! Unpack Rachel and |
| in | get out the puncture repair kit!" |
| Computer Science | Arnold Judas Rimmer- Red Dwarf |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
spi...@freenet.co.uk
Red Hat what?
You couldn't be much more vague.
And you didn't "screw up the entire computer as a user", the most you did
was "screw up your user's X session"
Kill the X session, restart it, problem solved, no reboot required.
Tim Smith
wrote:
> Oh, and I did try it because I didn't believe you, and I was right not to,
> big deal, you lose control of a console/terminal until you close it or kill
> "cat", so what? There's no purpose to catting /dev/console anyway.
>
> > Better not click that mouse button in the wrong place if you don't
> > want to see one billion windows being opened with no way to stop the
> > madness.
> > The only way to regain control is to pull the plug.
>
> What a load of bullcrap.
The effects are interesting. On SuSE 10.1 in a VMWare virtual machine,
with KDE, here's what I observe, after doing "cat /dev/console" as root
in a terminal window.
1. That terminal starts printing a sequence of newlines.
2. If I have other terminal windows open, they start printing newlines
when I type in them, along with echoing, but apparently not processing,
what I type. The newlines stop after a short while, only to start again
if I try to type anything.
3. If I open a terminal window AFTER doing the "cat /dev/console", that
terminal window is fine.
4. Bringing up a menu and moving the mouse causes things to happen.
What happens seems to vary. Once it just seems to flicker a bit and the
menu closed. Another time, the screen went totally black, and I had to
control-alt-backspace out of X.
I don't exactly understand what is happening here. I can guess it has
something to do with mouse input, but I didn't realize /dev/console was
connected to that. Also, things that mess up mouse input usually lead
to erratic cursor movement, but the cursor is fine with this as far as I
can tell.
--
--Tim Smith
B Gruff
> Pravda wrote:
>
>> Jim Richardson <war...@eskimo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>why'd you change the ownership to your user, from root?
>>
>> He probably didn't: I have the exact same permission flags as Flatfish
>> and it came configured that way. I never changed them. I'm running Red
>> Hat.
>
> How come I don't believe you?
Well, *I* am tempted to believe him, Peter.
Note that:- "....the exact same permission flags as Flatfish".
Oh yes, I believe him - the *exact* same:-)
Richard Rasker
> Richard Rasker <spam...@linetec.nl> wrote:
>
>>Even then, what's the point? It's completely trivial on almost any
>>computer to find a command that'll make the machine do the equivalent of
>>chasing its own tail, or render it unusable in another way.
>
> Sorry but I was never able to make OS X behave this way. I can *always*
> regain control on OS X, whatever I do and whatever it's doing.
Fine. Great for you, you haven't found the "nuke my session" command yet
for OS X. But what's your point? That Linux is somehow inferior because
you can make your own session unresponsive with some stupid command that
no-one would normally issue? Gheez ... grow up!
>>Forcibly killing & restarting X by pressing Ctrl+Alt+Backspace would
>>have been sufficient, I gather.
>
> I tried. It didn't work. Evidently, the system wasn't listening.
OK, then it isn't. It's *your* X session. And if *you* tell the session to
go chasing after its own tail instead of listening to you, you shouldn't
complain if it does just that.
Besides: Ctrl+Alt+Backspace must be really evil in your view: not only is
it much easier to occur by accident, but it immediately kills your
session, with the loss of any unsaved data ...
Peter Köhlmann
My thoughts.
Poster from aioe.org
Wild story. Screwed up installation
Claims it was "configured that way"
Another flatfish nym, probably
--
Confucius: He who play in root, eventually kill tree.
Hadron Quark
> Op Sun, 17 Sep 2006 22:39:22 -0400, schreef flatfish+++:
>
>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 19:01:41 -0700, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
>>
>>> Pravda wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Open a terminal window. Type:
>>>>
>>>> cat /dev/console
>>>
>>> cat: /dev/console: Permission denied
>>
>>
>> Not on mine.
>
> Even then, what's the point? It's completely trivial on almost any
> computer to find a command that'll make the machine do the equivalent of
> chasing its own tail, or render it unusable in another way. Hell, one of
> the first "funny" things I did on a Commodore PET was a simple BASIC
> routine along the lines of 10 POKE(8192*rnd(1),255*rnd(1)); GOTO 10, and
> watch the machine lose its mind.
err, so what? if you choose to deliberately write all over unprotected
memory then it did what one would expect. "cat /dev/console" should not
need the system to reboot to get it back.
>
> In Windows I guess you could just open a DOS box, cd to a directory
> containing thousands of JPEGs (e.g. your favourite prawn collection), type
> photoshop *, and press Enter. If photoshop indeed tries to open all of
> them, you're in trouble.
No you're not. Not if you have swap space available.
>
>> As a user it fscks the entire system up.
>
> No, fsck is something completely different. It's used to clean up the mess
> you morons leave behind by pulling the plug without good reason.
> The cat /dev/console command only messes up the current user's X session,
> not "the entire system".
Not much good if you are unable to kill the X-Session. Did anyone try ctl-alt-backspace?
>
>> Even after closing the terminal window the mouse does funny things,
>> windows pop up and just every weird behavior happens.
>> I had to shutdown to return the system to normal.
>
> Forcibly killing & restarting X by pressing Ctrl+Alt+Backspace would have
> been sufficient, I gather. In Windows, can you recover from these
> situations without rebooting?
I love that feature. Having an ATI card its priceless.
>
> All that you trolls proved here is that you're a bunch of dumbo baboons
> who happened to find a loaded gun, and now complain that it shoots holes
> in things when you pull the little bent thingy.
Isnt that what all system failures are? Nothing specific to windows or
linux IMO.
>
> Richard Rasker
--
"If you want to travel around the world and be invited to speak at a lot
of different places, just write a Unix operating system."
(By Linus Torvalds)
Hadron Quark
Peter doesn't believe anyone. He also tells lies about anti-aliasing :
quite unbelievably he believes that anti-aliasing would not affect a
screen shot!
--
KDE == (see GayDE) Kool Desktop Environment - Make X Window look like winbloze...
What a fucking great idea! The developers of this have a mental sickness,
please avoid this product -> see GNOME.
-- Jakes on #Debian
Hadron Quark
Why would it not be the exact same? Standard enough permissions for a file.
Richard Rasker
> Bob Hauck <postm...@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
>
>>Oh, maybe you meant to do it as root. But, why bother with such things?
>>Root can always just do "rm -f /" and be done with it. Maybe you should
>>try that.
>
> OK, everybody who is saying I'm running the command as root: I'm not! I
> ran the command as a regular user and was able to screw up the entire
> computer as a user.
Indeed, on several distros (among which Mandriva) you can run the command
as a regular user. But you don't "screw up the entire computer". No data
is damaged, no settings are changed, you just lose control over your
keyboard and (partly) mouse input until X is shut down and restarted.
Remedy: don't type cat /dev/console in a terminal window.
spi...@freenet.co.uk
> I don't exactly understand what is happening here. I can guess it has
> something to do with mouse input, but I didn't realize /dev/console was
> connected to that. Also, things that mess up mouse input usually lead
> to erratic cursor movement, but the cursor is fine with this as far as I
> can tell.
It is an odd one, but then, OSes are quite complicated bundles of
interelated code blocks and modules and stuff.
Suppose /dev/console might have some influence on the mouse if gpm is
installed... but I can't see why it would affect X.
(I only got the scrolling lines terminal effect, none of the other
weirdness, maybe I didn't leave it running long enough)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| spi...@freenet.co.uk | |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't |
| in | suck is probably the day they start making |
| Computer science | vacuum cleaners" - Ernst Jan Plugge |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
chrisv
>Open a terminal window. Type:
*plonk*
Peter Köhlmann
> B Gruff <bbg...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>
>> On Monday 18 September 2006 12:19 Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>>
>>> Pravda wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jim Richardson <war...@eskimo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>why'd you change the ownership to your user, from root?
>>>>
>>>> He probably didn't: I have the exact same permission flags as Flatfish
>>>> and it came configured that way. I never changed them. I'm running Red
>>>> Hat.
>>>
>>> How come I don't believe you?
>>
>> Well, *I* am tempted to believe him, Peter.
>> Note that:- "....the exact same permission flags as Flatfish".
>> Oh yes, I believe him - the *exact* same:-)
>>
>
> Why would it not be the exact same? Standard enough permissions for a
> file.
>
not in /dev
And *owner* flatfish, but group root? Strange enough permission to be not at
all "standard"
--
Accident, n.:
A condition in which presence of mind is good, but absence of body is
better.
Roy Schestowitz
Altenative remedy: at start of session (e.g. .bashrc), add
alias 'cat /dev/console'='echo does your momma know you are doing this?'
JDS
> I'm not saying that it can be done accidentally. But the sad thing is that you
> can screw up a system with a single command and never regain control unless you
> pull the plug.
Um, windows registry anyone?
--
JDS
JDS
> I ran the
> command as a regular user and was able to screw up the entire computer as a
> user.
You are obviously retarded then. A user can rm -rf his whole directory --
is that the OS's fault?
--
JDS
Johan Lindquist
JDS was all like, "Dude,
That's not at all the same thing, tho. Pulling the plug will seldom
save you after having screwed up the registry.
--
Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. Perth ---> *
16:04:01 up 71 days, 23:33, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
Linux 2.6.16.18-xen x86_64 GNU/Linux Registered Linux user #261729
yttrx
> Bob <b...@bob.org> wrote:
>
>>Yes, I am sure that your average know-nothing computer user is VERY
>>likely to navigate to the delightful commandline and accidentally type
>>out such an obtuse command.
>
>
> can screw up a system with a single command and never regain control unless you
> pull the plug.
>
You can do that with any operating system, including the sorts of things
that run computers that cost more than your house, dipshit.
-----yttrx
flatfish+++
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 22:39:22 -0400,
> flatfish+++ <flat...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 19:01:41 -0700, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
>>
>>> Pravda wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Open a terminal window. Type:
>>>>
>>>> cat /dev/console
>>>
>>> cat: /dev/console: Permission denied
>>
>>
>> Not on mine.
>>
>> As a user it fscks the entire system up.
>> Even after closing the terminal window the mouse does funny things,
>> windows pop up and just every weird behavior happens.
>> I had to shutdown to return the system to normal.
>>
>> [flatfish@localhost dev]$ ls -al console
>> crw------- 1 flatfish root 5, 1 Sep 17 22:33 console
>> [flatfish@localhost dev]$
>>
>>
>
> why'd you change the ownership to your user, from root?
>
I didn't.
That's the default, at least on PCLinuxOS.
BTW what does the "c" mean ?
flatfish+++
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 08:27:17 +0200,
> Peter Köhlmann <peter.k...@t-online.de> wrote:
>> Jim Richardson wrote:
>>
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 22:39:22 -0400,
>>> flatfish+++ <flat...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 19:01:41 -0700, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Pravda wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Open a terminal window. Type:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> cat /dev/console
>>>>>
>>>>> cat: /dev/console: Permission denied
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not on mine.
>>>>
>>>> As a user it fscks the entire system up.
>>>> Even after closing the terminal window the mouse does funny things,
>>>> windows pop up and just every weird behavior happens.
>>>> I had to shutdown to return the system to normal.
>>>>
>>>> [flatfish@localhost dev]$ ls -al console
>>>> crw------- 1 flatfish root 5, 1 Sep 17 22:33 console
>>>> [flatfish@localhost dev]$
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> why'd you change the ownership to your user, from root?
>>>
>>
>> Because otherwise he would not be able to screw up
>>
>> Naturally he will now claim that those with correct (untampered) settings
>> are of the "works here" crowd. And then Hadron Quark will chime in to
>> assist flatfish
>
> the mtime is interesting too. Suggesting he's using a distro with
> devfs, (most have it now) and that it was booted at that time. (devfs
> creates the /dev/ tree dynamically) Now, it's possible that FF has
> discovered a bug in that distro... I said it was *possible*...
Here it is again:
[flatfish@localhost ~]$ date
Mon Sep 18 12:00:07 EDT 2006
[flatfish@localhost ~]$ cd /dev
[flatfish@localhost dev]$ ls -al console
crw------- 1 flatfish root 5, 1 Sep 17 22:33 console
[flatfish@localhost dev]$ date
Mon Sep 18 12:00:18 EDT 2006
[flatfish@localhost dev]$
Notice the date for the /dev/console file......
THAT was the time and date when I entered the cat command, AS A USER,
which screwed up the system which indicates to ME that the file is
writeable as a USER????
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFFDkcmd90bcYOAWPYRAhMAAJsHYxJDexKhcDYZfLTznzq/omDN5QCgnAIg
> 8Yx6ajZZccVL+E+cK15/NCc=
> =iFkr
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
flatfish+++
> Pravda <pra...@xxxxxxx.net> writes:
>
>> Peter =?UTF-8?B?S8O2aGxtYW5u?= <peter.k...@t-online.de> wrote:
>>
>>>How come I don't believe you?
>>
>> Your problem, not mine.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Pravda
>>
>
> Peter doesn't believe anyone. He also tells lies about anti-aliasing :
> quite unbelievably he believes that anti-aliasing would not affect a
> screen shot!
That is correct.
Here it is:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/42c20cfa7ca49dae
flatfish+++
>
> err, so what? if you choose to deliberately write all over unprotected
> memory then it did what one would expect. "cat /dev/console" should not
> need the system to reboot to get it back.
Trust me... It hoses the entire system..
At least with PCLinuxOS .93a
The mouse starts acting weird.
Windows open and close by themselves when you just move the mouse etc.
This is with kde.
spi...@freenet.co.uk
> Works as a user under PCLinuxOS.
> Hoses the entire system in fact.
No, it doesn't
It hoses X.
If you can't ctrl alt backspace, try ctrl alt f1 instead
spi...@freenet.co.uk
> [flatfish@localhost ~]$ date
> Mon Sep 18 12:00:07 EDT 2006
> [flatfish@localhost ~]$ cd /dev
> [flatfish@localhost dev]$ ls -al console
> crw------- 1 flatfish root 5, 1 Sep 17 22:33 console
> [flatfish@localhost dev]$ date
> Mon Sep 18 12:00:18 EDT 2006
> [flatfish@localhost dev]$
> Notice the date for the /dev/console file......
> THAT was the time and date when I entered the cat command, AS A USER,
> which screwed up the system which indicates to ME that the file is
> writeable as a USER????
It's not being used for writing with the cat though, is it.
And if your distro of choice sets the permissions to allow you, as user to
access it, you have to ask... why. It is only your flatfish user.
No other user can.
Just flatfish and root.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| spi...@freenet.co.uk | |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| "ARSE! GERLS!! DRINK! DRINK! DRINK!!!" |
| in | "THAT WOULD BE AN ECUMENICAL MATTER!...FECK!!!! |
| Computer Science | - Father Jack in "Father Ted" |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
spi...@freenet.co.uk
> That's the default, at least on PCLinuxOS.
> BTW what does the "c" mean ?
character device special file.
if it was b, it'd be block device.
--
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crack|
| spi...@freenet.co.uk |in the ground beneath a giant boulder, which you|
| |can't move, with no hope of rescue. |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)|Consider how lucky you are that life has been |
| in |good to you so far... |
| Computer Science | -The BOOK, Hitch-hiker's guide to the galaxy.|
flatfish+++
> __/ [ AZ Nomad ] on Monday 18 September 2006 05:04 \__
>
>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 20:49:53 -0700, Freeride <free...@maillinux.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 22:27:00 -0400, Bob Hauck wrote:
>>
>>>> Oh, maybe you meant to do it as root. But, why bother with such things?
>>>> Root can always just do "rm -f /" and be done with it. Maybe you should
>>>> try that.
>>
>>
>>>He is a Windows user so he does not know any better, remember many many
>>>Windows application do requires Administator rights to work.
>>
>> Even if the program can run for a limited user, they're a pain in the
>> ass to setup.
>>
>> Set user to limited; log in as user and try app. Run into a setting that
>> requires user be an administrator; log out; log in as admin; change user
>> to
>> an admin; log out; log in as user; make setting change; log out; log
>> back
>> in as admin; set user back to limited user; log out; log back in as
>> limited user.
>
>
> I'll try to remember this. Worth a HOWTO. ANd they say Windows boasts ease of
> use...
>
>
>> Run-as typically doesn't work as the application will run on the
>> administrator's settings.
>
>
> C:/> Run-as
>
> [Press tab]
>
> C:/> Run-as-idiot
Notice the COLA Gang tatic of hijacking the thread to what Windows does
wrong instead of trying to explain why Linux has a problem with cat
dev/console.
Gotta keep those search engines finding Windows instead of Linux faults.
flatfish+++
> Pravda <pra...@xxxxxxx.net> did eloquently scribble:
>> Open a terminal window. Type:
>
>> cat /dev/console
>
> Permission denied.
>
>> Press RETURN. Watch as your computer goes out of its mind and becomes totally
>> unresponsive.
>
> There's a reason you don't run everything as root.
You don't have to be root.....
At least not on PCLinuxOS .93a
flatfish+++
>> What a load of bullcrap.
>
> The effects are interesting. On SuSE 10.1 in a VMWare virtual machine,
> with KDE, here's what I observe, after doing "cat /dev/console" as root
> in a terminal window.
>
> 1. That terminal starts printing a sequence of newlines.
>
> 2. If I have other terminal windows open, they start printing newlines
> when I type in them, along with echoing, but apparently not processing,
> what I type. The newlines stop after a short while, only to start again
> if I try to type anything.
>
> 3. If I open a terminal window AFTER doing the "cat /dev/console", that
> terminal window is fine.
>
> 4. Bringing up a menu and moving the mouse causes things to happen.
> What happens seems to vary. Once it just seems to flicker a bit and the
> menu closed. Another time, the screen went totally black, and I had to
> control-alt-backspace out of X.
>
> I don't exactly understand what is happening here. I can guess it has
> something to do with mouse input, but I didn't realize /dev/console was
> connected to that. Also, things that mess up mouse input usually lead
> to erratic cursor movement, but the cursor is fine with this as far as I
> can tell.
Bingo!
We have a winner!
Now go and look at the /dev/console file and see if the date changed to
the date when you last executed the cat command.....
Mine did....
spi...@freenet.co.uk
> We have a winner!
> Now go and look at the /dev/console file and see if the date changed to
> the date when you last executed the cat command.....
> Mine did....
Mine is still dated 6th of september. Which was the
5:20pm up 11 days 19:01, 10 users, load average: 0.82, 0.92, 1.01
last time I rebooted.
So that observation was irrelevant, all it proves is you rebooted and
devfs/udev created the dev file during the boot process.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| spi...@freenet.co.uk | "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| |
| in | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
| Computer Science | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
spi...@freenet.co.uk
So it messes with the mouse protocol setting or confuses the mouse in some
other way, it doesn't "HOSE the ENTIRE system". It only confuses X.
Which is unconfusable by simply exiting X.
On mine, suse 9.2, I've not even seen any of the reported mouse problems,
just the odd scrolly terminal thing and the inability to type into the "run"
box. Closing the terminal it was typed into ended the cat command and thus,
the problem. (yes, I did start a root x-session specially for the test)
Pravda
>You[...]
Sorry, poopy-panties, I'm not going to discuss this specific issue with a
retarded child.
Pravda
> Um, windows registry anyone?
So what? Who cares about Windows?
Pravda
>You are obviously retarded then. A user can rm -rf his whole directory --
>is that the OS's fault?
No, whiny pants, it's not the OS's fault if the user does 'rm'.
The 'rm' command is there for REMOVING things. The 'cat' command, on the other
hand, is not there for fucking the system up.
You get the difference, idiot?
Larry Qualig
spi...@freenet.co.uk wrote:
> flatfish+++ <flat...@linuxmail.org> did eloquently scribble:
> > On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:10:27 +0200, Hadron Quark wrote:
>
> >>
> >> err, so what? if you choose to deliberately write all over unprotected
> >> memory then it did what one would expect. "cat /dev/console" should not
> >> need the system to reboot to get it back.
>
> > Trust me... It hoses the entire system..
> > At least with PCLinuxOS .93a
>
> > The mouse starts acting weird.
> > Windows open and close by themselves when you just move the mouse etc.
> > This is with kde.
>
> So it messes with the mouse protocol setting or confuses the mouse in some
> other way, it doesn't "HOSE the ENTIRE system". It only confuses X.
> Which is unconfusable by simply exiting X.
In "theory" you are correct, but in practice the entire system is
hosed. I have an HP X4000 dual-Xeon workstation which dual boots SuSE
10.0. There are times when X gets hosed and when your keyboard and
mouse no longer work there really isn't any way to "simply exit X."
Technically I could ssh or telnet in from another machine and restart
X. But since the mouse and keyboard are completely dead... for all
practical purposes the entire system is hosed.
Think of your typical home or office user. It's little consolation to
them that the "kernel is still alive" when the keyboard and mouse are
completely locked up.
Pravda
>In "theory" you are correct, but in practice the entire system is
>hosed. I have an HP X4000 dual-Xeon workstation which dual boots SuSE
>10.0. There are times when X gets hosed and when your keyboard and
>mouse no longer work there really isn't any way to "simply exit X."
That's right: exactly what happens in this case.
Regards,
Pravda
flatfish+++
> flatfish+++ <flat...@linuxmail.org> did eloquently scribble:
>> I didn't.
>> That's the default, at least on PCLinuxOS.
>
>> BTW what does the "c" mean ?
>
> character device special file.
> if it was b, it'd be block device.
Thanks..
tha...@tux.glaci.remove-this.com
>
> Um, windows registry anyone?
Ack, the registry... the single worse design decision Microsoft ever
made, IMHO. Its a fragile, single point of failure, and it makes it
that much more difficult to create portable user desktops that can
be easily backed up, restored, or moved from one system to another.
On unix/linux systems, application settings specific to a user are
stored in that user's home directory. To move the user, I simply
move the directory... done. Last I checked, Windows requires the
use of special migration tools... the File and Settings Transfer
Wizard or USMT of something. Bletch!
Thad
JDS
> No, whiny pants, it's not the OS's fault if the user does 'rm'.
>
> The 'rm' command is there for REMOVING things. The 'cat' command, on the other
> hand, is not there for fucking the system up.
>
> You get the difference, idiot?
Ha. "whiny pants". I actually laughed out loud at that.
In any case, you are obviously arguing out both sides of your ass.
bye.
--
JDS
spi...@freenet.co.uk
> spi...@freenet.co.uk wrote:
>> flatfish+++ <flat...@linuxmail.org> did eloquently scribble:
>> > On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:10:27 +0200, Hadron Quark wrote:
>>
>> >>
>> >> err, so what? if you choose to deliberately write all over unprotected
>> >> memory then it did what one would expect. "cat /dev/console" should not
>> >> need the system to reboot to get it back.
>>
>> > Trust me... It hoses the entire system..
>> > At least with PCLinuxOS .93a
>>
>> > The mouse starts acting weird.
>> > Windows open and close by themselves when you just move the mouse etc.
>> > This is with kde.
>>
>> So it messes with the mouse protocol setting or confuses the mouse in some
>> other way, it doesn't "HOSE the ENTIRE system". It only confuses X.
>> Which is unconfusable by simply exiting X.
> In "theory" you are correct, but in practice the entire system is
> hosed. I have an HP X4000 dual-Xeon workstation which dual boots SuSE
> 10.0. There are times when X gets hosed and when your keyboard and
> mouse no longer work there really isn't any way to "simply exit X."
magic sysrq to the rescue in most cases there.
think alt-sysrq-i. could be l or k, can't remember which one, but I've
escaped from a bombed X session with one of those without disturbing
none-X-based consoles.
flatfish+++
> flatfish+++ <flat...@linuxmail.org> did eloquently scribble:
>> Works as a user under PCLinuxOS.
>> Hoses the entire system in fact.
>
> No, it doesn't
> It hoses X.
> If you can't ctrl alt backspace, try ctrl alt f1 instead
All my user applications are gui based so they die along with X.
Yes you are technically correct, but for all practical purposes the system
is hosed for a single user/desktop system.
spi...@freenet.co.uk
>>You[...]
Nice to see you show your true colours so early on.
you call someone poopy panties and accuse THEM of being retarded children.
It can't get much better than this.
Hadron Quark
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 08:27:17 +0200, Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>
>> Jim Richardson wrote:
>>
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 22:39:22 -0400,
>>> flatfish+++ <flat...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 19:01:41 -0700, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Pravda wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Open a terminal window. Type:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> cat /dev/console
>>>>>
>>>>> cat: /dev/console: Permission denied
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not on mine.
>>>>
>>>> As a user it fscks the entire system up.
>>>> Even after closing the terminal window the mouse does funny things,
>>>> windows pop up and just every weird behavior happens.
>>>> I had to shutdown to return the system to normal.
>>>>
>>>> [flatfish@localhost dev]$ ls -al console
>>>> crw------- 1 flatfish root 5, 1 Sep 17 22:33 console
>>>> [flatfish@localhost dev]$
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> why'd you change the ownership to your user, from root?
>>>
>>
>> Because otherwise he would not be able to screw up
>>
>> Naturally he will now claim that those with correct (untampered) settings
>> are of the "works here" crowd. And then Hadron Quark will chime in to
>> assist flatfish
Why would I do that?
>
> It is default.
>
Not on ubuntu dapper.
That's "400 distros" for you. Invalidating 90% of googled up "how tos" out
there for the novice Linux nOOb.
But as Kohlmann says : Linux isnt for idiots......
--
Running Windows on a Pentium is like having a brand new Porsche but only
be able to drive backwards with the handbrake on.
(Unknown source)
TheLetterK
> flatfish+++ <flat...@linuxmail.org> did eloquently scribble:
>> Works as a user under PCLinuxOS.
>> Hoses the entire system in fact.
>
> No, it doesn't
> It hoses X.
> If you can't ctrl alt backspace, try ctrl alt f1 instead
>
Or Alt + SysRq + i
Hadron Quark
It's a COLA gang trait for deflecting the many issues. Lets say I was to
say "installing my nvidia card was not simply plug n play" - they would
come back and say "but my mate had a blue screen of death 5 years ago
using Windoze". Its sad that real advocates are not able to see the
weaknesses as well as the strengths of Linux.
TheLetterK
> Bob <b...@bob.org> wrote:
>
>> Yes, I am sure that your average know-nothing computer user is VERY
>> likely to navigate to the delightful commandline and accidentally type
>> out such an obtuse command.
>
>
> I'm not saying that it can be done accidentally. But the sad thing is that you
> can screw up a system with a single command and never regain control unless you
> pull the plug.
This is true for any operating system.
>
> Regards,
> Pravda
Pravda
> This is true for any operating system.
I haven't found a way to screw up OS X so badly. Not that I tried hard.
But then, I wasn't trying to screw up Linux either: I was just trying to see
what's in that file.
Regards,
Pravda
Pravda
>Nice to see you show your true colours so early on. you call someone poopy
>panties and accuse THEM of being retarded children. It can't get much better
>than this.
Looks like I just insulted your boyfriend. Oh well. Find yourself a boyfriend
who's not a retarded child.
ed
Pravda <pra...@xxxxxxx.net> wrote:
> cat /dev/console
>
> Press RETURN. Watch as your computer goes out of its mind and becomes
> totally unresponsive. Better not click that mouse button in the wrong
> place if you don't want to see one billion windows being opened with
> no way to stop the madness. The only way to regain control is to pull
> the plug.
>
> My question to you is: is this the behavior of a serious operating
> system or is this the behavior of a fucking toy?
ed@lion:~$ ls -al /dev/console
crw------- 1 root root 5, 1 2006-09-18 18:10 /dev/console
ed@lion:~$ cat /dev/console
cat: /dev/console: Permission denied
Did you not try to change console window?
If one does something as root then it has the potential to run with
better scheduling than the regular user, and thus *seems* to have locked
up.
--
Regards, Ed :: http://www.openbsdhacker.com
proud java person
Chuck Norris broke his own leg, purely for the sake of winning the
special olympics.
Rick
I guess it sucks to use PCLinuxOS....
--
Rick
spi...@freenet.co.uk
Yup, definitely showing your true colours.
Even Doofus and flatfish have a better trolling style than you.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| spi...@freenet.co.uk | Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| in |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
spi...@freenet.co.uk
If you'd known anything about linux you would've known it's not a file.
It's a device.
Hadron Quark
> Pravda <pra...@xxxxxxx.net> did eloquently scribble:
>> TheLetterK <no...@none.net> wrote:
>
>>> This is true for any operating system.
>
>> I haven't found a way to screw up OS X so badly. Not that I tried hard.
>
>> But then, I wasn't trying to screw up Linux either: I was just trying to see
>> what's in that file.
>
> If you'd known anything about linux you would've known it's not a file.
> It's a device.
Everything in Linux is a file. Whoops.
--
The nice thing about Windows is - It does not just crash, it displays a
dialog box and lets you press 'OK' first.
(Arno Schaefer's .sig)
Peter Köhlmann
> spi...@freenet.co.uk writes:
>
>> Pravda <pra...@xxxxxxx.net> did eloquently scribble:
>>> TheLetterK <no...@none.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> This is true for any operating system.
>>
>>> I haven't found a way to screw up OS X so badly. Not that I tried hard.
>>
>>> But then, I wasn't trying to screw up Linux either: I was just trying to
>>> see what's in that file.
>>
>> If you'd known anything about linux you would've known it's not a file.
>> It's a device.
>
> Everything in Linux is a file. Whoops.
>
Nope. Everything is usually accessed as a file
Apps actually don't have to handle devices, they access the file associated
with the device
--
Microsoft: The company that made email dangerous
And web browsing. And viewing pictures. And...
spi...@freenet.co.uk
> spi...@freenet.co.uk writes:
>> Pravda <pra...@xxxxxxx.net> did eloquently scribble:
>>> TheLetterK <no...@none.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> This is true for any operating system.
>>
>>> I haven't found a way to screw up OS X so badly. Not that I tried hard.
>>
>>> But then, I wasn't trying to screw up Linux either: I was just trying to see
>>> what's in that file.
>>
>> If you'd known anything about linux you would've known it's not a file.
>> It's a device.
> Everything in Linux is a file. Whoops.
For the purpose of this argument it's a filesystem HOOK onto a device, which
is not meant to be written to or read from directly without using the
correct protocols.
Peter Kai Jensen
Hash: SHA1
flatfish+++ wrote:
>> cat: /dev/console: Permission denied
>
> Not on mine.
>
> As a user it fscks the entire system up. Even after closing the
> terminal window the mouse does funny things, windows pop up and just
> every weird behavior happens. I had to shutdown to return the system
> to normal.
>
> [flatfish@localhost dev]$ ls -al console
> crw------- 1 flatfish root 5, 1 Sep 17 22:33 console
> [flatfish@localhost dev]$
It is possible that your particular version has a misconfiguration of
the console permission system of PAM. The idea was to give local login
users special permission to most of the important device files. I think
the concept has largely been obsoleted by udev and permission groups,
but there was a time when it was used. It would seem that whoever
configured your particular distro has misunderstood the purpose of
/dev/console and given the user permissions he should never have had.
At any rate, this system would only ever give permissions to local
logins, so the chances of remotely initiated fuck-up are slim. Heck, a
run-of-the-mill fork bomb would probably have better chances of working,
since most people neglect to set ulimit settings.
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=OmUL
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
PeKaJe
Any thread which begins on a serious subject will become frivolous, and
any thread which begins on a frivolous subject will become serious.
-- Rillion's Second Law
Hadron Quark
> Hadron Quark <qadro...@geemail.com> did eloquently scribble:
>> spi...@freenet.co.uk writes:
>
>>> Pravda <pra...@xxxxxxx.net> did eloquently scribble:
>>>> TheLetterK <no...@none.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> This is true for any operating system.
>>>
>>>> I haven't found a way to screw up OS X so badly. Not that I tried hard.
>>>
>>>> But then, I wasn't trying to screw up Linux either: I was just trying to see
>>>> what's in that file.
>>>
>>> If you'd known anything about linux you would've known it's not a file.
>>> It's a device.
>
>> Everything in Linux is a file. Whoops.
>
> For the purpose of this argument it's a filesystem HOOK onto a device, which
> is not meant to be written to or read from directly without using the
> correct protocols.
Its a file. Its opened with fopen.
--
QOTD:
"He's so egotistical he yells his own name when he comes."
Peter Kai Jensen
Hash: SHA1
TheLetterK wrote:
>> No, it doesn't
>> It hoses X.
>> If you can't ctrl alt backspace, try ctrl alt f1 instead
>
> Or Alt + SysRq + i
Forcibly kill every process except init? Crude, but very effective for
finally killing a runaway fork bomb. It's way overkill for this issue,
though. Use the 'k' magic key instead to only kill everything attached
to the current console (in this case X). That should be enough.
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
PeKaJe
Always code as if the guy who ends up maintaining your code will be a
violent psychopath who knows where you live. -- Martin Golding
yttrx
Looks to me, Pravda, like you've just realized what a giant fucking moron
you are, and youre regretting making that first post. Best thing to do now
would be to just back away, change your moniker, and hope everyone forgets
that you're an idiot.
-----yttrx
Pravda
>spi...@freenet.co.uk writes:
>>
>> If you'd known anything about linux you would've known it's not a file.
>> It's a device.
>
>Everything in Linux is a file. Whoops.
That's right. Poor spike...
The Ghost In The Machine
<qadro...@geemail.com>
wrote
on Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:10:47 +0200
<87psdta...@geemail.com>:
> spi...@freenet.co.uk writes:
>
>> Pravda <pra...@xxxxxxx.net> did eloquently scribble:
>>> TheLetterK <no...@none.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> This is true for any operating system.
>>
>>> I haven't found a way to screw up OS X so badly. Not that I tried hard.
>>
>>> But then, I wasn't trying to screw up Linux either: I was just trying to see
>>> what's in that file.
>>
>> If you'd known anything about linux you would've known it's not a file.
>> It's a device.
>
> Everything in Linux is a file. Whoops.
>
Actually, everything is an inode entry. Inodes can
be files, block dev, character dev, sockets, pipes,
or directories.
In essence, Unix was generally OO before there *was* an OO,
and Linux builds on that tradition. However, Unix was an
impure OO, in light of such issues as ioctl() and fcntl().
Not that Windows is much cleaner in that respect; the
handling of devices in Windows 9x systems is rather bizarre
(probably out of necessity with its DOS underpinnings).
NT is not upwardly compatible but at least one has a
chance of doing device handling somewhat sanely therein.
I'd have to look up the details at this point.
XP cleaned this up, presumably, and Vista will allow
for further consolidation in a slow but inexorable move
towards its eventual destination, whatever it might be.
Most programs do not need device access nowadays.
And of course this is one of Linux's problems -- and
possibly its successes. It can't keep up with Vista's
"innovations". (It probably doesn't want to. It
certainly doesn't really need to.)
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Windows Vista. Because it's time to refresh your hardware. Trust us.
JEDIDIAH
> spi...@freenet.co.uk writes:
>
>> Pravda <pra...@xxxxxxx.net> did eloquently scribble:
>>> TheLetterK <no...@none.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> This is true for any operating system.
>>
>>> I haven't found a way to screw up OS X so badly. Not that I tried hard.
>>
>>> But then, I wasn't trying to screw up Linux either: I was just trying to see
>>> what's in that file.
>>
>> If you'd known anything about linux you would've known it's not a file.
>> It's a device.
>
> Everything in Linux is a file. Whoops.
Doing random things as the super user is generally a bad idea.
The OS doesn't matter.
Although those device files can be quite handy when debugging drivers.
--
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your fantasies. You have to manage based on what really happens |||
rather than what you would like to happen. This is true of personal / | \
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JEDIDIAH
Hadron Quark
> On 2006-09-18, Hadron Quark <qadro...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> spi...@freenet.co.uk writes:
>>
>>> Hadron Quark <qadro...@geemail.com> did eloquently scribble:
>>>> spi...@freenet.co.uk writes:
>>>
>>>>> Pravda <pra...@xxxxxxx.net> did eloquently scribble:
>>>>>> TheLetterK <no...@none.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is true for any operating system.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I haven't found a way to screw up OS X so badly. Not that I tried hard.
>>>>>
>>>>>> But then, I wasn't trying to screw up Linux either: I was just trying to see
>>>>>> what's in that file.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you'd known anything about linux you would've known it's not a file.
>>>>> It's a device.
>>>
>>>> Everything in Linux is a file. Whoops.
>>>
>>> For the purpose of this argument it's a filesystem HOOK onto a device, which
>>> is not meant to be written to or read from directly without using the
>>> correct protocols.
>>
>> Its a file. Its opened with fopen.
>
> That doesn't contradict what he said.
Who said I was contradicting anything? Can you read and follow a thread?
You can ? Good. He said "it wasnt a file". I corrected him. He tried to
obfuscate the issue. 1-0 to me.
--
A word to the wise: a credentials dicksize war is usually a bad idea
on the net.
-- David Parsons in c.o.l.development.system, about coding in C
spi...@freenet.co.uk
> You can ? Good. He said "it wasnt a file". I corrected him. He tried to
> obfuscate the issue. 1-0 to me.
Obfuscate?
It's a file HOOK. All dev files are. Some are left "dangling" (say,
/dev/sda14 when you don't have 14 partitions configured for example).
When such a "file" is accessed, you get
No such device or address
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| spi...@freenet.co.uk | |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't |
| in | suck is probably the day they start making |
| Computer science | vacuum cleaners" - Ernst Jan Plugge |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hadron Quark
> Hadron Quark <qadro...@geemail.com> did eloquently scribble:
>> Who said I was contradicting anything? Can you read and follow a thread?
>> You can ? Good. He said "it wasnt a file". I corrected him. He tried to
>> obfuscate the issue. 1-0 to me.
>
> Obfuscate?
> It's a file HOOK. All dev files are. Some are left "dangling" (say,
> /dev/sda14 when you don't have 14 partitions configured for example).
> When such a "file" is accessed, you get
> No such device or address
Why are you making this so painful?
You said it isnt a file.
It is.
So what what hooks into it?
Really, I mean no disrespect. But you said it wasnt a "file" but it
is. All "files" have hooks into subsystems. All of them. Whether
traditional byte sequences stored on disks or char devicses mapped to
the file interface - they are all "files".
--
oral contraceptive, n.:
The word "No".
spi...@freenet.co.uk
> You said it isnt a file.
I then clarified, not, as you claimed, obfuscated.
Pravda
>Loo[...]
Hey, what's this foul smell? Oh, poopy panties is back... Ew!
The Ghost In The Machine
<pra...@xxxxxxx.net>
wrote
on Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:57:04 +0000 (UTC)
<een170$vnj$1...@emma.aioe.org>:
Indeed. How inflexible, to not have to use specialized opening routines
in order to read character or block devices. That's just so 60's.
:-P
Hadron Quark
> Hadron Quark <qadro...@geemail.com> did eloquently scribble:
>> Why are you making this so painful?
>
>> You said it isnt a file.
>
> I then clarified, not, as you claimed, obfuscated.
You didn't clarify anything. To clarify you need to say "Sorry, but you
are of course correct and it is indeed a file albeit with a different
access hook" :-;
When you stated it wasn't a file : you didn't need to clarify
anything. You needed to correct yourself.
--
What's this script do?
unzip ; touch ; finger ; mount ; gasp ; yes ; umount ; sleep
Hint for the answer: not everything is computer-oriented. Sometimes you're
in a sleeping bag, camping out with your girlfriend.
-- Contributed by Frans van der Zande
Pravda
>When you stated it wasn't a file : you didn't need to clarify
>anything. You needed to correct yourself.
Not content with stating that /dev/console is not a file, Spike - the master of
public self-embarassment - even started the sentence with "If you'd known
anything about linux..."
Poor spike.
Buford Ressup
> Pravda <pra...@xxxxxxx.net> writes:
>
>> JDS <jef...@invalid.address> wrote:
>>
>>> Um, windows registry anyone?
>>
>> So what? Who cares about Windows?
>
> It's a COLA gang trait for deflecting the many issues. Lets say I was to
> say "installing my nvidia card was not simply plug n play" - they would
> come back and say "but my mate had a blue screen of death 5 years ago
> using Windoze". Its sad that real advocates are not able to see the
> weaknesses as well as the strengths of Linux.
"Real advocates are not able to see the weaknesses as well as the
strengths of Linux."
Is that a generalization or just a troll? If it's the former, then it's
invalid. If it's the latter, then I misjudged you and will remember your
name in the future.
Pravda
>Indeed. How inflexible, to not have to use specialized opening routines in
>order to read character or block devices. That's just so 60's.
You're missing the point by a long shot. I never criticized Unix for using files
to hook into devices. I'm just laughing at Spike, who said that /dev/console is
not a file.
Regards,
Pravda