Indian Management Service

[Gopal Krishna]

I liked this idea. What's your take on this?

ref: http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_abolish-ias-says-infosys-murthy_1421753

• Murthy’s cure, besides tougher punishment, is to abolish the system of generalised administrators under the Indian Administrative Service (IAS) and replace it with specialists under a new ‘Indian Management Service’.

  The new breed of government servants would have specialised knowledge to manage projects. Their salaries must also be increased to ‘near private sector’ levels, while making 60% of their remuneration variable according to how well they are able to implement projects. “If we had kept track of the activities using a project management software, we would not be where we are,” he said, about the delays in setting up the Commonwealth Games infrastructure.

This variable-component of financial compensation, known as performance bonus, is one of the reasons what makes private sector more efficient.

When I was in college, I used to wonder at lakhs of books on so many areas of sciences & engineering. How is it possible for one person to be an expert in so many areas in today's vast spectrum of human knowledge. Simply impossible! Our bureaucrats cannot handle all problems - not even nobel laureates claim to be experts in all fields. We need specialized knowledge of a variety of experts for various areas of governance. One thing that is definitely required is to make it mandatory for all bureaucrats to get 1-year executive MBA from IIMs apart from other training before they are assigned any duty. Right now, they are too dumb in management fundas and act as "smart" which is actually act as "an ass". 

Any comments???

Thanks,

Gopal

--
Thoughtless awareness: the ultimate peace of mind - learn about it more here http://gopal4mission.wordpress.com/2007/12/29/thoughtless-awareness-faq-on-basic-concepts

[विक्की हिन्दुस्तानी]

मै आपसे सहमत हूँ ! लेकिन केवल IIM से MBA पर्याप्त नहीं है ! देशप्रेम , ईमानदारी , निस्वार्थ सेवा का पाठ पढाना जरूरी है जो दूर दूर तक नहीं नजर आता ! 

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आपका मित्र ,
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विषिस्ट सदस्य , भारत स्वाभिमान    

http://www.bharatswabhimantrust.org/bharatswa/vyavstha%20parivartan.pdf
भारत स्वाभिमान के व्यवस्था परिवर्तन का दस्तावेज देखने के लिए उपरोक्त लिंक क्लिक करें I

[Ashok Sawhney]

Dear Gopal ji,

Many thanks for that excellent article. It is the essential necessity of the day if we have to save our BHARAT from further doom. But how are we to implement the change ?

Everyone, including the IAS officers themselves, are aware of the shortcomings in the present system, but no one is ready to do anything. We cannot expect the IAS cadre to act against themselves. The change in the system by replacing the IAS with a new Indian Management Service has to be therefore brought about by the political leadership. They do not have the time, nor the will. The present system is suiting them as the inefficient bureaucracy is aiding and abetting the political leadership in amassing wealth through corruption, and by playing favourites to their kith and kin.

I hope that the people of this nation can become aware and exert enough pressure for the change to take place. The media and the private sector with leaders like Ratan Tata and Narayana Murthy have to come together with mass movement forces like the Bharat Swabhiman Andolan under Baba Ram Dev. All like minded forces have to come together openly and fearlessly, and demand a clean, fair and just society and nation, ie Bharat, and whatever reforms / changes are necessary to do that.

Om,

Ashok Sawhney

--

[Gopal Krishna]

Actually, character etc are not so easy to develop. Do you think Gandhi or JP's movements were not mass movements? Gandhi worked for more than 50 years and still his colleagues were not as selfless as they should have been. It is a very tricky problem-influencial people get lots of chamcha and if they are not alert, they promote their chamchas considering them as good-hearted persons based on their talks and some work. At least this is partly the reason how Gandhi movement failed. Most of Congress leaders used to do chamchagiri of Gandhi Ji till they needed him for the transfer of power from the British to the Indian. With JP also the same thing happened.

So, for all our reliance on Baba Ji's and Rajiv Ji' ability to bring the best out of his colleagues, we would do well to gather all those ideas like right-to-recall, IMS, etc and create mass movements for them. A system which can work well only in the presence of superman or perfected specimens of mankind is not a truly good system. And as far as the effect of Pranayam etc is cocnerned - human mind is not so easy to mold. Even Indira Gandhi used to do lots of pranayama - and she was damn corrupt and egoistic. Not even meditation (which is 1000 times more purifying than pranayama and which unfortunately has not been properly spread in the masses yet) is 100% reliable. Human ego is capable of enormous ingenuity in doing self-corruption and self-destruction. So, we need things like ego management, productivity management, corruptibility management, laziness management, etc. in our institutions also apart from reliance on yoga for character-building.    

People like Narayan Murthy cannot pioneer a public cause not because they are intellectually incapable but because pioneering a public cause require a huge amount of emotional strength and selfless devotion - and these two qualities are easy to talk about but never easy to actual develop and manifest in our own life in face of all types of hardships. But, such people are knowledgeable. So, their ideas should be considered seriously. Even enlightened sages need to learn from others if they want to succeed in a public cause - I can give many examples of organizational failures of enlightened sages like Osho and even our Vedic Rishis. Successful organizational work is the greatest challenge that any group of people faces in their public work and even Self-Realization is not a guaranteer for success in doing this. 

So, we need things like ego management, productivity management, corruptibility management (right to recall, etc.), laziness management, etc. in our institutions also apart from reliance on yoga for character-building. I am trying to develop ideas on these things, but these ideas have to be continuously refined for a long time before they get a good enough shape. A mass movement needs charismatic leaders like Gandhi Ji and Baba Ji, but at the same time they need great organizational skills of modern corporate world. These companies have leadership training and grooming next top-level executive program since very beginning. They think in terms of 20-30 years, try to develop fault-tolerant systems, do productivity and project management well etc. I wish our sentimental patriots focus on developing their management fundas, otherwise failure is the most likely outcome. Because the law of karma and not the law of dharma determines the material outcome in this world and hence, the victory belongs to the most diligent and intelligent people and not to the most morally upright people!!! If morally upright people want success in doing good to this world, they must be 100 times more diligent and intelligent than crooks!  

Thanks,

Gopal

[Gopal Krishna]

the second problem which I find in most of our political parties is - lack of internal democracy due to excessive centralization. The problem that happens due to this is great. If all important posts are hand-picked by top few leaders, it create a tradition of chamchagiri (Congress is a good example - even CMs are handpicked by high command). And once the tradition of chamchagiri takes roots in an institution, the mid-level leaders' intellectual and spiritual strengths are sapped very badly - after a certain stage of intellectual and spiritual evolution happens in a person, he/she can never do chamchagiri for the sake of gaining good image. So, the chamchagiri tradition gradually repels all really evolved people at the mid-level leadership (though some of they may still remain at the grassroots level) and thus mid-level leadership gets rotten, eventually the whole organization becomes a hypocritical organization - talking about corruption before public and condoning corruption in one's own organization. This is how Pt Nehru ruined congress - he also promoted Chamchas. And the mistake was started by Gandhi Ji itself, though it was more an unintentional mistake on his part because he was a bit unworldly and could not understand the moral weaknesses of his colleagues. Whereas people like Nehru, Indira, etc intentionally indulged in chamchagiri culture and ruined the purity of Congress.

These are some of my observations on how well-intentioned institutions decay to eventually become a shameless caricature of their original self. And I have no hesitation in expressing these observations boldly as I do not want to see the downfall of Bharat Swabhiman where not one but two Gandhis are present (Baba Ji and Rajiv Ji) and the nation would not be able to digest any organizational failures of our 21st century Gandhis as it has got too much of such failings in the past. 

Feel free to contradict it or offer comments.

[विक्की हिन्दुस्तानी]

I agree with your views.

 

So, we need things like ego management, productivity management, corruptibility management (right to recall, etc.), laziness management, etc. in our institutions also apart from reliance on yoga for character-building.

 

I dont think these aspect of management is tought in any institution in Bharat even in IIM's. Till the time these things along with personal qualities i.e. honesty, integrity,love for the nation is developed, people will use the techniques leart in IIM's for their better corruption management (by ensuring less evidences of their corruption) and personal gain.

 

U r correct that these qualities are not easy to develop. These can better developed from childhood & for developing these We need to have a RASTRAWADI education system. Our present education system is totally silent about the charater building & guiding the child / youth about the rite or wrong. It is only providing the factual knowledge (which in many instances like for history provides many false details to ensure the Bhartiya will never pround of their glorious past) & conceptual knowledge. In the absence of guidence & teahing on moral values, character,duties towards the society, environment & nation the child/ youth becomes & behaves like a machine & very easily he is misguided in this materialistic world & agree to work against the nation. There is no moral power and strength present in the individual which can counter the evils like lust for money , power etc.

 

If we can do something in this direction we can have a generation of dedicated youths who will not ever work against the interest of society & nation. Providing adequate modern management teaching to these can yield real fruits. 

 

As far as large organisation are concerned the corruption is low due to increased accountability, strong internal controls, segregation of duties, effective internal vigilence & hard outcomes to employee concerned in case of detection of such cases.

 

Modern management teaching can teach you how you can increse productivity but at last you are driven by your brain and heart which is lagely dependent on your personal ethics & moral values. 

[Sankh Das]

Shraddheya Gopal Ji

Very true observation. Actually we should work very professionally in this Bharat Swabhiman Andolan. The country needs a leader. We got Swami Ramdev Ji. The duty of ours will be to follow him without any self motive or any material expectations, not blindly, there should be positive arguments, discussions and finally consensus. There is much difference between executing orders and sycophancy. The later always blocks the growth of a mission. 

Beside that, we always keep open our mind to receive any good idea from any culture and apply it for the growth of Bharat Swabhiman. It is well proven that West has developed a good management strategy. We should assimilate these ideas keeping our root firmed in our knowledge of Scriptures to build Superpower Bharat. 

Pranam

SDas 

[Prakriti (A call to return to the nature)]

श्री गोपाल जी,

आपका कहना बिलकुल सत्य है. इन्हीं सब बातों का ध्यान रखकर भारत स्वाभिमान आन्दोलन को आगे बढ़ना हैं और एक पूर्ण स्वतंत्र, शक्तिशाली और समृद्ध भारत की नींव रखनी है.

धन्यवाद्,

राकेश चन्द्र

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Gopal Krishna <gopalkrish...@gmail.com> wrote:

--
Thanks and Regards,

Prakriti Aarogya Kendra

Specialty Store of Organic, Ayurvedic, Herbal, Natural & Swadeshi Products

Shop No. 2, Buena Vista,
Off Datta Mandir Chowk,
Near Kailas Super Market
Viman Nagar, Pune - 411014
Contact Number : 020-40038542, 9822622905, 9881308509

Website www.prakritipune.in

 

[Ganesh P Sharma]

(I  beg pardon of all readers for using English instead of HINDI because of system limitations)

Om

Bharat Swabhiman Andolan(Bharat Nirman Andolan) is the fight for complete freedom which is an unfinished agenda of our great "Shaheeds".This movement  was hijacked on 15th August 1947 by anti national elements with so perfect make up that we could identify them now with the bold disclosures of Swami Radev jee and Rajeev Jee.They used education system,judiciary system, laws,finance system/policies & Agriculture policy etc. as tools for maximum exploitation so that normal public would never have time and  capacity to  come to know their game plan.

By taking cue from previous failures we should make every movement  very professionally by taking the help of all latest and useful knowledge of our time so that maximum no.of persons are made aware of the truth and even people like ASIM JEE who is nothing but a typical product of above mentioned system.Such people who have courage to fight for their point of view are valuable for us when their fundas are made clear.

We need to undergo a great deal of transition to get rid ills of thousands of years of slavery in our behavioral aspects.This is a very painful stage but once over everything will be just right and this is only possible by adopting changes of modern days and at the same time remaining perfectly glued to our roots to make our bharat a super power.

JAI BHARAT .... VANDE MATRAM
_____________________

Ganesh P Sharma
ACC Limited,Finance Deptt.
ACC Ltd,Kymore Cement Works
PO Kymore,Dist Katni 483 880 (M P)
Phone 09993282227
ganesh...@acclimited.com
www.acclimited.com
This e-mail is confidential and intended only for the use of the above named addressee. If you have received this e-mail in error, please delete it immediately and notify us by e-mail or telephone.

From:	Sankh Das <das....@gmail.com>
To:	bharatswab...@googlegroups.com
Date:	08/13/2010 11:40 AM
Subject:	Re: [BST] Indian Management Service
Sent by:	bharatswab...@googlegroups.com

---

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Manage emails receipt at http://groups.google.com/group/bharatswabhimantrust/subscribe

[विक्की हिन्दुस्तानी]

प्रिय गणेश जी

आप निचे कि लिंक पे जाकर गूगल हिंदी डाउनलोड कर सकते हैं ! इससे MS Word, Excel, Outlook etc में आप हिंदी में टाइप कर सकते हैं वो भी ऑफलाइन रहते हुए !

http://www.google.com/ime/transliteration/help.html

[Gopal Krishna]

Continuing the discussion, but before that some fundamentals on what is meant by being a good thinker/intellectual (as that is what is the most painful weakness of our society - we produce too many blind followers/believers and too less thinkers/intellectuals):

• A great life is inspired by love and guided by wisdom. Love manifests in life with the purification of our emotions and motives. Wisdom manifests in life with both the growth of love and the growth of intellectual level. The intellectual level grows due to (a) a great learning spirit manifested through regular reading and self-analysis habits; and (b) by courageously asking questions and sincerely seeking their answers. When we say by courageously asking questions and sincerely seeking their answers, we must understand that the first person regarding whom one should ask questions is oneself. One should first question oneself, one's own beliefs and opinions and then question anyone else's beliefs and opinions. This is the central tenet of true questioning spirit and independent thinking. Otherwise the habit of questioning everyone's beliefs and opinions except one's own beliefs and opinions will always degenerate into ego-thickening intellectual retardation. So, friends! Grow in love and wisdom steadily and be a light to yourself as well as humanity. Friends! Exercise your mind to full capacity before accepting any idea irrespective of who has championed it or for how long it has been accepted by society. Reason may lead you astray some times, but blind beliefs will lead you astray most of the times. A person, who cannot say a strong "NO",  never develops the capacity of saying a strong "YES" either. Faith that is produced through sincere doubts is pure and valuable just like the gold that is produced through the fire. In this world, values are eternal, but not views even if they be the views of the wisest people. Immortality is for values and principles, but never for views and opinions. All values and principles are derived from one supreme value of universal love and from universal laws of body, mind and nature whereas all views and opinions are ideas and strategies for manifesting any value or principle in a particular context of time, place and circumstances. Due to this reason, the law of birth, growth and decay always applies to all views and opinions sooner or later. So, hold on to the values and principles espoused by the great ones, but exercise your own brain and be ready to even go against the views and opinions of the great ones if that is the bidding of your own heart and mind. 

Now, I want to share one very crucial strength of US executive which is abysmally absent in most developing countries.  

ref: http://www.thisnation.com/textbook/bureaucracy-reform.html

The USA President appoints and can remove the top twenty-percent or so of all Executive Branch employees, including Department Secretaries. The same is true at state level also. It has some very good effect as these top twenty-percent come from all strata of intelligentsia. A professor of University of Chicago can be an economic advisor, the President of Google can be in science and technology council, a professor of Harvard Medical School can become health secretary. 

As compared to this, our system is plain dumb. Even top bureaucratic positions at state and national level are filled through UPSC and State civil services cadre. Even if some of these civil servants come from technical background, their technical expertise is almost nothing over long period as compared to those continuously working in technical line. A person having MBBS and MD and then becoming a civil servant will have much less knowledge and understanding of medical science than a professor of medical colleges because the later will steadily grow his/her medical science knowledge through research and clinical work. So, even for health secretary, it will always be better to hire such professors than a civil servant even if he/she has got some MBBS and MD degree 15 or 20 years ago.  

This dysfunction is very bad. If at the level of state and central secretariats, all executive positions are filled purely based on talent and experience from all fields of academia and industry rather than the present rotten method of filling them completely from civil services, the efficiency of bureaucracy will increase a lot.  

This is the first important point.

Second, the education is all important. Ref: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story/105649/Cover%20Story/gaurav-gupta.html - He also holds a certificate in public finance management from Harvard. 

We should have proper training for our lower-level bureaucrats (assuming higher-level, namely, secretariat level bureaucrats are picked from all segments of academia and industry). Giving one-year executive MBA from IIM as their training as probationers and later on also, giving them flexibility to take some masters or even phds by taking sabbatical leave.

 

In fact, if this first rule of picking secretariat level bureaucrats from all segments of academia and industry is implemented, even lower-level bureaucrats coming through civil services will have to work much better in order to get any secretariat level position. So, there is a clear trickle-down positive effect.

Third, transparency and accountability, project management and productivity management, performance bonus, promotion based on performance plus expertise plus experience rather than plain seniority - all such management fundamentals that modern corporates apply, should be applied in bureaucracy as well.

Fourth, political system should be cleaned. If our political leaders remain corrupt, then bureaucracy will also remain corrupt. In Bihar, we saw it clearly. Under Laloo regime, no development was done. But, once Nitish became CM, the same bureaucrats created records in achieving development milestones and in tackling crimes and other law-and-order problem. This clearly proved once again how important it is to get good-hearted and intelligent people as our top political leaders. I have already started another thread of discussion on "how to tackle money-power in politics? - please participate in that thread by sharing your valuable insights and experiences.

The success of any bureaucratic reforms depends on the success of political reforms as political leaders are the ones who can do these bureaucratic reforms. And that's where we have to do lots of work. Baba, Rajiv Ji, Dr. Jai Prakash Narayana (of Lok Satta party) are in 40s and 50s. Youths from my generation has to carry forward the momentum generated by these leaders or be ready to even lead the work to success if due to some unfortunate organizational or social reasons, these leaders are unable to lead the work to full success. Due to this very reason, we should courageously ask questions and sincerely seek their answers like good thinkers/intellectuals as we are the future torch-bearers of this nation and we have to succeed in our socio-political goals, however much intelligence and diligence, we have to manifest in our lives. 

Jai Hind,

Gopal

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 5:19 AM, Prakriti (A call to return to the nature) <prakri...@gmail.com> wrote:

श्री गोपाल जी,

आपका कहना बिलकुल सत्य है. इन्हीं सब बातों का ध्यान रखकर भारत स्वाभिमान आन्दोलन को आगे बढ़ना हैं और एक पूर्ण स्वतंत्र, शक्तिशाली और समृद्ध भारत की नींव रखनी है.

[Ganesh P Sharma]

OM
JAI BHARAT
I am happy that at least one boy has come up and thinking in right direction. Let's all of us initiate this "BAL JAGRAN ABHIYAN" and make at least one BALAK or BALIKA aware of the state of affaires particularly in rural ares.

This will be the greatest ANSHDAN to this great NAVIN  INDEPENDENCE MOVEMENT.

 VANDE MATRAM.

_____________________

Ganesh P Sharma
ACC Limited,Finance Deptt.
ACC Ltd,Kymore Cement Works
PO Kymore,Dist Katni 483 880 (M P)
Phone 09993282227
ganesh...@acclimited.com
www.acclimited.com
This e-mail is confidential and intended only for the use of the above named addressee. If you have received this e-mail in error, please delete it immediately and notify us by e-mail or telephone.

From:	"Shashi Puri " <shash...@hotmail.com>
To:	"ganesh...@acclimited.com " <ganesh...@acclimited.com>
Date:	08/13/2010 07:44 PM
Subject:	RE: [BST] Indian Management Service

---

Vande Mataram

I am 20 years of age and hardly knew anything regarding the dismal condition of our motherland until I came across The BST.

It encouraged me to research about Bharat and various aspects of our Motherland which make her great.

I would like to say that I was deeply hurt by the dismal condition namely corruption, negligence , pollution, followed by an unlimited unwanted problems.

My observation has brought forward a point:

If the nation has to wake up from this longlasted dark-age sleep, there has got to be a difference in the feeling of the children of our Motherland.

Every child is like fresh clay, you may mould it into an idol of God or let it be as it is (Deformed).
We may have our children bred as either Ajmal Amir Kasab and his partners who will be hanged for their Sins or Shaheed Bhagat Singh, Shaheed Rajguru and Shaheed Sukhdev who are immortal due to their sacrifice of life for the Motherland.
Hanged in a tender age of early 20's.

Choice is ours and ours alone.

Shashipuri Pitamberpuri Goswami,
+919998970418

www.acclimited.com

Shraddheya Gopal Ji

Very true observation. Actually we should work very professionally in this Bharat Swabhiman Andolan. The country needs a leader. We got Swami Ramdev Ji. The duty of ours will be to follow him without any self motive or any material expectations, not blindly, there should be positive arguments, discussions and finally consensus. There is much difference between executing orders and sycophancy. The later always blocks the growth of a mission. 

Beside that, we always keep open our mind to receive any good idea from any culture and apply it for the growth of Bharat Swabhiman. It is well proven that West has developed a good management strategy. We should assimilate these ideas keeping our root firmed in our knowledge of Scriptures to build Superpower Bharat. 

Pranam
SDas 

--
Manage emails receipt at

http://groups.google.com/group/bharatswabhimantrust/subscribe

[Ganesh P Sharma]

OM
In my view the priorities of your and the boys of your age should be to -

1. To make best efforts in studies and excell in it.
2. To improve on Games and other activities of the school and college.
3. To practice PRANAYAM,12 YOGIC JOGGING & 12 ASANAS daily in morning and help / encourage others to do the same in nearby localities in a radius of your reach.Enroll all like thinking ones as members of BHARAT SWABHIMAN to strengthen the hands of SWAMI JI.
   You can get the enrollment form from nearby Patanjali yog samiti (PYS) or from the file attached below. Fill and submit with local PYS and work with them to serve more and more people.
   In case of any doubt Pl contact me again I will be pleased to solve any problem in my reach.The whole google group is your family every one will be happy to help you - to help others.

OM ......JAI BHARAT.................VANDE MATRAM

_____________________

Ganesh P Sharma
ACC Limited,Finance Deptt.
ACC Ltd,Kymore Cement Works
PO Kymore,Dist Katni 483 880 (M P)
Phone 09993282227
ganesh...@acclimited.com
www.acclimited.com
This e-mail is confidential and intended only for the use of the above named addressee. If you have received this e-mail in error, please delete it immediately and notify us by e-mail or telephone.

From:	"Shashi Puri " <shash...@hotmail.com>
To:	"ganesh...@acclimited.com " <ganesh...@acclimited.com>
Date:	08/14/2010 08:25 PM
Subject:	RE: [BST] Indian Management Service

---

Vande Mataram

Please tell me whatever I can do that can serve the purpose of development and welfare of our Motherland.

I live in Surat, Gujarat. I shall do anything to contribute.

www.acclimited.com

[Ganesh P Sharma]

OM

By mistake I could not attach the desired files.

Vande Mataram

_____________________

Ganesh P Sharma
ACC Limited,Finance Deptt.
ACC Ltd,Kymore Cement Works
PO Kymore,Dist Katni 483 880 (M P)
Phone 09993282227
ganesh...@acclimited.com
www.acclimited.com
This e-mail is confidential and intended only for the use of the above named addressee. If you have received this e-mail in error, please delete it immediately and notify us by e-mail or telephone.

From:	Ganesh P Sharma <ganesh...@acclimited.com>
To:

	"Shashi Puri " <shash...@hotmail.com>, bharatswab...@googlegroups.com

Date:	08/17/2010 10:15 AM
Subject:

	RE: [BST] Indian Management Service

Sent by:	bharatswab...@googlegroups.com

---

OM
In my view the priorities of your and the boys of your age should be to -

1.        To make best efforts in studies and excell in it.
2.        To improve on Games and other activities of the school and college.
3.        To practice PRANAYAM,12 YOGIC JOGGING & 12 ASANAS daily in morning and help / encourage others to do the same in nearby localities in a radius of your reach.Enroll all like thinking ones as members of BHARAT SWABHIMAN to strengthen the hands of SWAMI JI.