I’m concerned about the lack of communication from Google throughout
the ADC I process could end up turning people off to the platform and
hurting all of us in the long run. I think this lack of communication
is risking the dilution of the initial “hard core” group of about 3000
developers – the people that on the evening of April 14th cheered
“Google!” and are now wondering “Hey, Google, what’s going on?.” All
of us make choices as to what technology to learn next based on
multiple factors, but one factor is consistent – few of us will stick
with a technology or vendor where we perceive we aren’t informed of
direction and status, and are not treated professionally. All of us
want Android to succeed. A flourishing technical community will only
be beneficial – professionally and financially – to all of us. I would
like to make a few suggestions to improve the process.
First, we need a single contact point at Google – someone who is
responsible for answering questions in a timely manner. I respect Dan
Morrill’s efforts – man, this guy must be overloaded – but I think the
developer community deserves a dedicated level of support. It’s easy
for Google to throw money at the ADC, but in my experience a company
is serious about a project when it dedicates its’ most precious
resource - high quality people - to the project. The key word is
dedicated – not part time.
Second, whoever is in charge of the ADC (does anyone really know?)
should send an immediate email to every submitter giving us the
current status of the challenge, and commit to send a continuing
status at least once per week. Since none of us have heard anything
from anyone in Google management, I’m starting wonder if the ADC was a
well intentioned effort by a bunch of developers, and it became much
more popular – and too big – for them to handle, especially while
doing their day to day work.
Third, we deserve to see in concise terms what the current judging
criteria is, the qualifications of the judges (no personal info, just
skills and length of experience), how judges are actually assigned and
what process the judges go through to evaluate the applications. Not
just some sporadic posts, but a single set of terms. Since we don’t
know the evaluation sequence, many of us are on edge right now because
we don’t know if our app was spot checked or if that quick “in and
out” is the extent of the evaluation. I read a post that judges are
assigned randomly – does this mean that a game developer could be
assigned to review a client/server app, or vice versa? Since we have
had no communication, we are seeing tons of angst filled posts.
Fourth, we need an escalation process if we can prove that our
application was not evaluated fairly. We are dealing with globally-
written apps being globally evaluated – at a minimum, there are bound
to some language and cultural miscommunications.
Fifth, we need to know results of the judges review of our
application. We all worked an insane amount of hours on our apps,
it’s only fair and professional that we get to see the review. Not
only will this help us to improve our apps for ADC II, but it will
allow us to determine if we have been treated fairly. If we don’t see
the results, then many will conclude that they have been treated
unfairly. I’m not saying that is right, but it is human nature.
People need to feel that they are part of the process or they will
leave, which is that last thing any of us want.
I’m concerned about the lack of communication from Google throughout
the ADC I process could end up turning people off to the platform and
hurting all of us in the long run. I think this lack of communication
is risking the dilution of the initial “hard core” group of about 3000
developers – the people that on the evening of April 14th cheered
“Google!” and are now wondering “Hey, Google, what’s going on?.” All
of us make choices as to what technology to learn next based on
multiple factors, but one factor is consistent – few of us will stick
with a technology or vendor where we perceive we aren’t informed of
direction and status, and are not treated professionally. All of us
want Android to succeed. A flourishing technical community will only
be beneficial – professionally and financially – to all of us. I would
like to make a few suggestions to improve the process.
First, we need a single contact point at Google – someone who is
responsible for answering questions in a timely manner. I respect Dan
Morrill’s efforts – man, this guy must be overloaded – but I think the
developer community deserves a dedicated level of support. It’s easy
for Google to throw money at the ADC, but in my experience a company
is serious about a project when it dedicates its’ most precious
resource - high quality people - to the project. The key word is
dedicated – not part time.
Second, whoever is in charge of the ADC (does anyone really know?)
should send an immediate email to every submitter giving us the
current status of the challenge, and commit to send a continuing
status at least once per week. Since none of us have heard anything
from anyone in Google management, I’m starting wonder if the ADC was a
well intentioned effort by a bunch of developers, and it became much
more popular – and too big – for them to handle, especially while
doing their day to day work.
Third, we deserve to see in concise terms what the current judging
criteria is, the qualifications of the judges (no personal info, just
skills and length of experience), how judges are actually assigned and
what process the judges go through to evaluate the applications. Not
just some sporadic posts, but a single set of terms. Since we don’t
know the evaluation sequence, many of us are on edge right now because
we don’t know if our app was spot checked or if that quick “in and
out” is the extent of the evaluation. I read a post that judges are
assigned randomly – does this mean that a game developer could be
assigned to review a client/server app, or vice versa? Since we have
had no communication, we are seeing tons of angst filled posts.
Fourth, we need an escalation process if we can prove that our
application was not evaluated fairly. We are dealing with globally-
written apps being globally evaluated – at a minimum, there are bound
to some language and cultural miscommunications.
Fifth, we need to know results of the judges review of our
application. We all worked an insane amount of hours on our apps,
it’s only fair and professional that we get to see the review. Not
only will this help us to improve our apps for ADC II, but it will
allow us to determine if we have been treated fairly. If we don’t see
the results, then many will conclude that they have been treated
unfairly. I’m not saying that is right, but it is human nature.
People need to feel that they are part of the process or they will
leave, which is that last thing any of us want.
This is the far more elegant version of what I was trying to say in my eleventeen posts. I agree with this 100%.
I've said on a number of occasions. This contest exists to a large degree to get people excited about the platform and generate good will from the development community. To that end, this is the last push and its on Google's shoulders. Follow through. If there's a list of 50 "winners" on Monday (or later in the week), and that's it, we'll all feel like we wasted a whole lot of time.
My brother and I used to live in an apartment together. We'd both complain to other people how the other was a huge slob. The truth? We were both medium size slobs, but we didn't' really track who left what where. So, we both thought the other was making the mess. This culminated in a game of chicken with the dishes. As in, we both left them dirty in the sink, waiting for the other to wash them. I'll spare the details, except to say we both really lost. Point is, without some transparency, Google will think it has done a fair job of evaluating the apps and we're all complaining because we lost, and we're all going to think they barely looked at our work. Or didn't look at all.
On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 10:25 PM, Pete Zybrick <pzybr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm concerned about the lack of communication from Google throughout > the ADC I process could end up turning people off to the platform and > hurting all of us in the long run. I think this lack of communication > is risking the dilution of the initial "hard core" group of about 3000 > developers – the people that on the evening of April 14th cheered > "Google!" and are now wondering "Hey, Google, what's going on?." All > of us make choices as to what technology to learn next based on > multiple factors, but one factor is consistent – few of us will stick > with a technology or vendor where we perceive we aren't informed of > direction and status, and are not treated professionally. All of us > want Android to succeed. A flourishing technical community will only > be beneficial – professionally and financially – to all of us. I would > like to make a few suggestions to improve the process.
> First, we need a single contact point at Google – someone who is > responsible for answering questions in a timely manner. I respect Dan > Morrill's efforts – man, this guy must be overloaded – but I think the > developer community deserves a dedicated level of support. It's easy > for Google to throw money at the ADC, but in my experience a company > is serious about a project when it dedicates its' most precious > resource - high quality people - to the project. The key word is > dedicated – not part time.
> Second, whoever is in charge of the ADC (does anyone really know?) > should send an immediate email to every submitter giving us the > current status of the challenge, and commit to send a continuing > status at least once per week. Since none of us have heard anything > from anyone in Google management, I'm starting wonder if the ADC was a > well intentioned effort by a bunch of developers, and it became much > more popular – and too big – for them to handle, especially while > doing their day to day work.
> Third, we deserve to see in concise terms what the current judging > criteria is, the qualifications of the judges (no personal info, just > skills and length of experience), how judges are actually assigned and > what process the judges go through to evaluate the applications. Not > just some sporadic posts, but a single set of terms. Since we don't > know the evaluation sequence, many of us are on edge right now because > we don't know if our app was spot checked or if that quick "in and > out" is the extent of the evaluation. I read a post that judges are > assigned randomly – does this mean that a game developer could be > assigned to review a client/server app, or vice versa? Since we have > had no communication, we are seeing tons of angst filled posts.
> Fourth, we need an escalation process if we can prove that our > application was not evaluated fairly. We are dealing with globally- > written apps being globally evaluated – at a minimum, there are bound > to some language and cultural miscommunications.
> Fifth, we need to know results of the judges review of our > application. We all worked an insane amount of hours on our apps, > it's only fair and professional that we get to see the review. Not > only will this help us to improve our apps for ADC II, but it will > allow us to determine if we have been treated fairly. If we don't see > the results, then many will conclude that they have been treated > unfairly. I'm not saying that is right, but it is human nature. > People need to feel that they are part of the process or they will > leave, which is that last thing any of us want.
> Second, whoever is in charge of the ADC (does anyone really know?)
> should send an immediate email to every submitter giving us the
> current status of the challenge, and commit to send a continuing
> status at least once per week. Since none of us have heard anything
> from anyone in Google management, I’m starting wonder if the ADC was a
> well intentioned effort by a bunch of developers, and it became much
> more popular – and too big – for them to handle, especially while
> doing their day to day work.
Well, if you were a real fanatic about Android then you would already
know that this comes from the top. The mere fact that you are
suggesting that this was created by a bunch of developers shows that
you have no idea what you are talking about. Dude, they said they were
going to give us news on May 5th or around that date. It hasn't even
been three weeks. Take it easy.
> Fourth, we need an escalation process if we can prove that our
> application was not evaluated fairly. We are dealing with globally-
> written apps being globally evaluated – at a minimum, there are bound
> to some language and cultural miscommunications.
What are you? Insane? This will never happen. Seems to me like you
rather work the angles rather than win the competition like everybody
else.
One more thing, in the music business producers will only need to hear
a person for a minute or less to determine whether they like the
person or not. Same is the thing here. They do not need to spend half
an hour testing your application to determine whether they like it or
not. So if you only got a minute or so,well, I'm sorry to tell you
this but it could be that:
A) Your application stinks from the judges perspective and no matter
how much you want them to look at it the longer they look at it the
stronger the stench.
B)Your application had a problem and failed to load or work as you
expected, this would not be unusual given that these are all first
versions and have not been thoroughly tested, even if you claim you
did. Things always fail when somebody other than you tests the
application. Belive me, I have several years of experience and this is
very true.
C)The judge got confused on how to use your application (I'm being
nice here so that you can blame it on the judge, of course it is not
your application, it is perfect, a work of art, and this is the only
reason you did not win!)
On May 2, 5:25 pm, Incognito <androidf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Fourth, we need an escalation process if we can prove that our
> > application was not evaluated fairly. We are dealing with globally-
> > written apps being globally evaluated – at a minimum, there are bound
> > to some language and cultural miscommunications.
> What are you? Insane? This will never happen. Seems to me like you
> rather work the angles rather than win the competition like everybody
> else.
I forgot to include another one and the most likely one.
D) This is a conspiracy and the judges failed your application because
they have in for you. They liked your application so much that they
purposedly failed your application so they can steal it.
On May 2, 7:05 pm, Incognito <androidf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> One more thing, in the music business producers will only need to hear
> a person for a minute or less to determine whether they like the
> person or not. Same is the thing here. They do not need to spend half
> an hour testing your application to determine whether they like it or
> not. So if you only got a minute or so,well, I'm sorry to tell you
> this but it could be that:
> A) Your application stinks from the judges perspective and no matter
> how much you want them to look at it the longer they look at it the
> stronger the stench.
> B)Your application had a problem and failed to load or work as you
> expected, this would not be unusual given that these are all first
> versions and have not been thoroughly tested, even if you claim you
> did. Things always fail when somebody other than you tests the
> application. Belive me, I have several years of experience and this is
> very true.
> C)The judge got confused on how to use your application (I'm being
> nice here so that you can blame it on the judge, of course it is not
> your application, it is perfect, a work of art, and this is the only
> reason you did not win!)
> On May 2, 5:25 pm, Incognito <androidf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Fourth, we need an escalation process if we can prove that our
> > > application was not evaluated fairly. We are dealing with globally-
> > > written apps being globally evaluated – at a minimum, there are bound
> > > to some language and cultural miscommunications.
> > What are you? Insane? This will never happen. Seems to me like you
> > rather work the angles rather than win the competition like everybody
> > else.- Hide quoted text -
----- Original Message ----- From: "Incognito" <androidf...@yahoo.com> To: "Android Challenge" <android-challenge@googlegroups.com> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 3:05 PM Subject: [android-challenge] Re: Communication
One more thing, in the music business producers will only need to hear a person for a minute or less to determine whether they like the person or not. Same is the thing here. They do not need to spend half an hour testing your application to determine whether they like it or not. So if you only got a minute or so,well, I'm sorry to tell you this but it could be that:
A) Your application stinks from the judges perspective and no matter how much you want them to look at it the longer they look at it the stronger the stench. B)Your application had a problem and failed to load or work as you expected, this would not be unusual given that these are all first versions and have not been thoroughly tested, even if you claim you did. Things always fail when somebody other than you tests the application. Belive me, I have several years of experience and this is very true. C)The judge got confused on how to use your application (I'm being nice here so that you can blame it on the judge, of course it is not your application, it is perfect, a work of art, and this is the only reason you did not win!)
On May 2, 5:25 pm, Incognito <androidf...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Fourth, we need an escalation process if we can prove that our > > application was not evaluated fairly. We are dealing with globally- > > written apps being globally evaluated – at a minimum, there are bound > > to some language and cultural miscommunications.
> What are you? Insane? This will never happen. Seems to me like you > rather work the angles rather than win the competition like everybody > else.
I certainly agree with you that judges don't need a lot of time to
figure out if they like your application. If I see an application
posted here I almost always know enough when reading the description,
and certainly after viewing a few minutes of screencast. I'm not a
judge and I don't have to think about how many points I have to give,
but i suppose that the majority of the apps are almost immediately
rejected.
On 3 mei, 01:05, Incognito <androidf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> One more thing, in the music business producers will only need to hear
> a person for a minute or less to determine whether they like the
> person or not. Same is the thing here. They do not need to spend half
> an hour testing your application to determine whether they like it or
> not. So if you only got a minute or so,well, I'm sorry to tell you
> this but it could be that:
> A) Your application stinks from the judges perspective and no matter
> how much you want them to look at it the longer they look at it the
> stronger the stench.
> B)Your application had a problem and failed to load or work as you
> expected, this would not be unusual given that these are all first
> versions and have not been thoroughly tested, even if you claim you
> did. Things always fail when somebody other than you tests the
> application. Belive me, I have several years of experience and this is
> very true.
> C)The judge got confused on how to use your application (I'm being
> nice here so that you can blame it on the judge, of course it is not
> your application, it is perfect, a work of art, and this is the only
> reason you did not win!)
> On May 2, 5:25 pm, Incognito <androidf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Fourth, we need an escalation process if we can prove that our
> > > application was not evaluated fairly. We are dealing with globally-
> > > written apps being globally evaluated – at a minimum, there are bound
> > > to some language and cultural miscommunications.
> > What are you? Insane? This will never happen. Seems to me like you
> > rather work the angles rather than win the competition like everybody
> > else.- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
> I certainly agree with you that judges don't need a lot of time to
> figure out if they like your application. If I see an application
> posted here I almost always know enough when reading the description,
> and certainly after viewing a few minutes of screencast. I'm not a
> judge and I don't have to think about how many points I have to give,
> but i suppose that the majority of the apps are almost immediately
> rejected.
> On 3 mei, 01:05, Incognito <androidf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > One more thing, in the music business producers will only need to hear
> > a person for a minute or less to determine whether they like the
> > person or not. Same is the thing here. They do not need to spend half
> > an hour testing your application to determine whether they like it or
> > not. So if you only got a minute or so,well, I'm sorry to tell you
> > this but it could be that:
> > A) Your application stinks from the judges perspective and no matter
> > how much you want them to look at it the longer they look at it the
> > stronger the stench.
> > B)Your application had a problem and failed to load or work as you
> > expected, this would not be unusual given that these are all first
> > versions and have not been thoroughly tested, even if you claim you
> > did. Things always fail when somebody other than you tests the
> > application. Belive me, I have several years of experience and this is
> > very true.
> > C)The judge got confused on how to use your application (I'm being
> > nice here so that you can blame it on the judge, of course it is not
> > your application, it is perfect, a work of art, and this is the only
> > reason you did not win!)
> > On May 2, 5:25 pm, Incognito <androidf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > Fourth, we need an escalation process if we can prove that our
> > > > application was not evaluated fairly. We are dealing with globally-
> > > > written apps being globally evaluated – at a minimum, there are bound
> > > > to some language and cultural miscommunications.
> > > What are you? Insane? This will never happen. Seems to me like you
> > > rather work the angles rather than win the competition like everybody
> > > else.- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
> > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
I glossed over the "started by developers" bit. That's obviously not true.
I'm a little on the fence about the whole escalation thing. I'm sure there won't be anything like that, but I understand why people would want it. Transparency of the process would help a lot with that. The idea is that if you get 4 reviews, its a lot less likely that you'll just have "bad luck" with your scores. If your scores are bad its because your app is bad. However, at the root of this issue is that it doesn't appear to us scouring our logs that we've had 4 reviews.
So what percent is my support? Its Friday. I'm beat. No more math. 80%-ish. I guess.
On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 5:25 PM, Incognito <androidf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Fourth, we need an escalation process if we can prove that our > > application was not evaluated fairly. We are dealing with globally- > > written apps being globally evaluated – at a minimum, there are bound > > to some language and cultural miscommunications.
> What are you? Insane? This will never happen. Seems to me like you > rather work the angles rather than win the competition like everybody > else.
Guys. The point here is that the apps aren't even opened. That's the heart of the issue. Even the worst of fan-boy comp-sci 101 apps should be opened, just to make the guy feel good. You don't have to spend 30 minutes on it, true, but look at the thing.
The music analogy is awful, by the way. Dude, you watch too many movies.
On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 7:22 PM, Hielko <hie...@tweakers.net> wrote:
> I certainly agree with you that judges don't need a lot of time to > figure out if they like your application. If I see an application > posted here I almost always know enough when reading the description, > and certainly after viewing a few minutes of screencast. I'm not a > judge and I don't have to think about how many points I have to give, > but i suppose that the majority of the apps are almost immediately > rejected.
> On 3 mei, 01:05, Incognito <androidf...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > One more thing, in the music business producers will only need to hear > > a person for a minute or less to determine whether they like the > > person or not. Same is the thing here. They do not need to spend half > > an hour testing your application to determine whether they like it or > > not. So if you only got a minute or so,well, I'm sorry to tell you > > this but it could be that:
> > A) Your application stinks from the judges perspective and no matter > > how much you want them to look at it the longer they look at it the > > stronger the stench. > > B)Your application had a problem and failed to load or work as you > > expected, this would not be unusual given that these are all first > > versions and have not been thoroughly tested, even if you claim you > > did. Things always fail when somebody other than you tests the > > application. Belive me, I have several years of experience and this is > > very true. > > C)The judge got confused on how to use your application (I'm being > > nice here so that you can blame it on the judge, of course it is not > > your application, it is perfect, a work of art, and this is the only > > reason you did not win!)
> > On May 2, 5:25 pm, Incognito <androidf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > Fourth, we need an escalation process if we can prove that our > > > > application was not evaluated fairly. We are dealing with globally- > > > > written apps being globally evaluated – at a minimum, there are bound > > > > to some language and cultural miscommunications.
> > > What are you? Insane? This will never happen. Seems to me like you > > > rather work the angles rather than win the competition like everybody > > > else.- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
> > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
I also agree that the judges can probably determine a lot from the
docs and the way the app loads (or doesn't load). Initial impressions
are very compelling and can color the impression of the judge. Since
one of the categories was "polish", a judge may decide the app
deserves no additional inspection if they know the app will get a "0"
on that category.
As difficult as it may be for some people to relax, please try! :)
A friend of mine pointed out that Google didn't get to be the size and
success they are by doing things in a bone-headed way. Their process
is most likely very well planned and thought-out. It is also probably
not readily apparent to a bunch of developers eager to gain
affirmation for their work.
Be proud of your accomplishments! You tackled a new environment with a
very difficult deadline. The documentation and available samples were
sparse and the help from peers was sporadic at times because of the
competitive nature of the challenge. In a corporate development world,
you'd be among the elite! Very few development teams deliver software
on time under such conditions.
I suspect very few of the 1788 submissions were in it just for the
money. The vast majority were inspired by the diificult nature of the
challenge and the "cool" factor of being one of the few to use a new
technology. Those same folks were probably the first to adopt new
technologies on their preferred platforms, too. They are also most
likely the technical leaders in their "real jobs". According to an IT
Week article (http://www.itweek.co.uk/itweek/analysis/2171281/why- projects-fail) 90 percent of software projects are completed late.
Using that percentage, there are about 16,000 people out there that
tried and failed to deliver a working app by the deadline. Just take a
moment to reflect on your victory!
Would I like to be one of the 50? Heck yeah! The real question is why?
The money can't be the sole reason. If you work out the math, most
people probably spent between 400-500 hours working on their
submission. That's an hourly rate of about $50-$60 per hour - much
less if there was more than one person on the team. The caliber of
applications that will win the challenge will be written by folks that
can make that hourly rate and much more in their day jobs.
For me, I guess it boils down to validation. When I first looked at
the Android SDK, I wasn't sure I could adapt to the way it worked.
There was so much to learn and master. There were many times when my
frustration level was through the roof and I wasn't sure I could
complete the project on time. Completing the challenge was very
rewarding all by itself. Being recognized as one of the best would
just be icing on the cake.
For now, I'm using the time to port my app to other handheld
platforms. My ultimate vision is to have a globally marketable
application. If Google doesn't recognize its value, I'll keep pushing
until it's good enough for someone else to sponsor it to the world. I
won't blame Google for lack of vision or comprehension of my
brilliance. I think the problem will lie much closer to home.
My word of advice to people frustrated with Google is the same I've
given myself.
First, run your app through the same test you run on every website &
application you encounter everyday. If you're like me (and Incognito
& others in this post), you decide within 30 seconds whether you like
it or not and click to the next option. The judges are doing nothing
more than the average consumer. You have to do this honestly for your
own app...which is tough with our own efforts.
More importantly, look at all the other apps out there. I've
personally made a list of over 100+ applications and sorted them into
several categories...two of which are "In the top 50" & "Out of the
top 50". I've based my selection on criteria such as ingenuity of
concept, utility of app, mass appeal, visual appeal, ease of use,
possible business model, plus every factor that Google already
provided....
I only have about 30 applications in my own "Top 50" while my buckets
labeled "Nothing new here" or "Doesn't use Android's unique
capabilities" contain about 20% of all submitted applications that
I've seen. I'm confident I've seen <50% of all the applications out
there as the other 50% haven't posted anything about them.
My own app? I've personally placed my own application in a bucket
labeled "Bottom 25 of 50" because I've seen some pretty cool apps out
there.
If you do all that I described above and still feel like you've been
shorted, then post a link to your application on this Google Group and
get immediate feedback from your peers on where they think it fits in
their current Top 50 ranking. We've all seen many Android submissions
already so we're almost as knowledgeable as some of the judges in
offering our thoughts and a rating.
well put murmeister - right on. After all the whining
here lately, it is refreshing to see someone with a positive attitude!
good luck to you (which is superfluous; you'll make luck happen)
murmeister wrote:
I also agree that the judges can probably determine a lot from the
docs and the way the app loads (or doesn't load). Initial impressions
are very compelling and can color the impression of the judge. Since
one of the categories was "polish", a judge may decide the app
deserves no additional inspection if they know the app will get a "0"
on that category.
As difficult as it may be for some people to relax, please try! :)
A friend of mine pointed out that Google didn't get to be the size and
success they are by doing things in a bone-headed way. Their process
is most likely very well planned and thought-out. It is also probably
not readily apparent to a bunch of developers eager to gain
affirmation for their work.
Be proud of your accomplishments! You tackled a new environment with a
very difficult deadline. The documentation and available samples were
sparse and the help from peers was sporadic at times because of the
competitive nature of the challenge. In a corporate development world,
you'd be among the elite! Very few development teams deliver software
on time under such conditions.
I suspect very few of the 1788 submissions were in it just for the
money. The vast majority were inspired by the diificult nature of the
challenge and the "cool" factor of being one of the few to use a new
technology. Those same folks were probably the first to adopt new
technologies on their preferred platforms, too. They are also most
likely the technical leaders in their "real jobs". According to an IT
Week article (http://www.itweek.co.uk/itweek/analysis/2171281/why-
projects-fail) 90 percent of software projects are completed late.
Using that percentage, there are about 16,000 people out there that
tried and failed to deliver a working app by the deadline. Just take a
moment to reflect on your victory!
Would I like to be one of the 50? Heck yeah! The real question is why?
The money can't be the sole reason. If you work out the math, most
people probably spent between 400-500 hours working on their
submission. That's an hourly rate of about $50-$60 per hour - much
less if there was more than one person on the team. The caliber of
applications that will win the challenge will be written by folks that
can make that hourly rate and much more in their day jobs.
For me, I guess it boils down to validation. When I first looked at
the Android SDK, I wasn't sure I could adapt to the way it worked.
There was so much to learn and master. There were many times when my
frustration level was through the roof and I wasn't sure I could
complete the project on time. Completing the challenge was very
rewarding all by itself. Being recognized as one of the best would
just be icing on the cake.
For now, I'm using the time to port my app to other handheld
platforms. My ultimate vision is to have a globally marketable
application. If Google doesn't recognize its value, I'll keep pushing
until it's good enough for someone else to sponsor it to the world. I
won't blame Google for lack of vision or comprehension of my
brilliance. I think the problem will lie much closer to home.
<stepping down from soap box>
I appreciate everyones feedback. Just to clarify one point, perhaps my
wording should have been better. I think all of us are very aware that
Google Mobile is a multi-billion dollar long term strategic investment
- thats part of why we invested our time. When I stated "...I’m
starting wonder if the ADC was a
well intentioned effort by a bunch of developers...", I was just
making a logical guess at a reason why the communication for the ADC I
- only ADC I, not Google Mobile or Android - has been minimal. In
retrospect, I probably should have left that sentence out - I fell
into the "speculation trap" that is running rampant across these
posts.
Anyone can disagree with specific points, I'm ok with that, I don't
expect everyone to agree with me and I hope to improve my viewpoints
based on the feedback of others. I would prefer that some posts were
more professional, but so be it. It's easy to be negative, I'm trying
to suggest improvements that will benefit all of us. The core of what
I'm trying to say is that Google needs to improve the communication
for ADC I and II or risk losing some of the core first adopters. They
are the developers that, one year or so from now, will be working at
start-ups, consulting firms, Global 2000, etc. There are roughly 1800
entries, and the only communication has been sporadically through one
person. You can disagree with me, but that balance just doesn't seem
right.
On May 2, 10:55 pm, murmeister <murmeis...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I also agree that the judges can probably determine a lot from the
> docs and the way the app loads (or doesn't load). Initial impressions
> are very compelling and can color the impression of the judge. Since
> one of the categories was "polish", a judge may decide the app
> deserves no additional inspection if they know the app will get a "0"
> on that category.
> As difficult as it may be for some people to relax, please try! :)
> A friend of mine pointed out that Google didn't get to be the size and
> success they are by doing things in a bone-headed way. Their process
> is most likely very well planned and thought-out. It is also probably
> not readily apparent to a bunch of developers eager to gain
> affirmation for their work.
> Be proud of your accomplishments! You tackled a new environment with a
> very difficult deadline. The documentation and available samples were
> sparse and the help from peers was sporadic at times because of the
> competitive nature of the challenge. In a corporate development world,
> you'd be among the elite! Very few development teams deliver software
> on time under such conditions.
> I suspect very few of the 1788 submissions were in it just for the
> money. The vast majority were inspired by the diificult nature of the
> challenge and the "cool" factor of being one of the few to use a new
> technology. Those same folks were probably the first to adopt new
> technologies on their preferred platforms, too. They are also most
> likely the technical leaders in their "real jobs". According to an IT
> Week article (http://www.itweek.co.uk/itweek/analysis/2171281/why- > projects-fail) 90 percent of software projects are completed late.
> Using that percentage, there are about 16,000 people out there that
> tried and failed to deliver a working app by the deadline. Just take a
> moment to reflect on your victory!
> Would I like to be one of the 50? Heck yeah! The real question is why?
> The money can't be the sole reason. If you work out the math, most
> people probably spent between 400-500 hours working on their
> submission. That's an hourly rate of about $50-$60 per hour - much
> less if there was more than one person on the team. The caliber of
> applications that will win the challenge will be written by folks that
> can make that hourly rate and much more in their day jobs.
> For me, I guess it boils down to validation. When I first looked at
> the Android SDK, I wasn't sure I could adapt to the way it worked.
> There was so much to learn and master. There were many times when my
> frustration level was through the roof and I wasn't sure I could
> complete the project on time. Completing the challenge was very
> rewarding all by itself. Being recognized as one of the best would
> just be icing on the cake.
> For now, I'm using the time to port my app to other handheld
> platforms. My ultimate vision is to have a globally marketable
> application. If Google doesn't recognize its value, I'll keep pushing
> until it's good enough for someone else to sponsor it to the world. I
> won't blame Google for lack of vision or comprehension of my
> brilliance. I think the problem will lie much closer to home.
> I forgot to include another one and the most likely one.
> D) This is a conspiracy and the judges failed your application because
> they have in for you. They liked your application so much that they
> purposedly failed your application so they can steal it.
> On May 2, 7:05 pm, Incognito <androidf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > One more thing, in the music business producers will only need to hear
> > a person for a minute or less to determine whether they like the
> > person or not. Same is the thing here. They do not need to spend half
> > an hour testing your application to determine whether they like it or
> > not. So if you only got a minute or so,well, I'm sorry to tell you
> > this but it could be that:
> > A) Your application stinks from the judges perspective and no matter
> > how much you want them to look at it the longer they look at it the
> > stronger the stench.
> > B)Your application had a problem and failed to load or work as you
> > expected, this would not be unusual given that these are all first
> > versions and have not been thoroughly tested, even if you claim you
> > did. Things always fail when somebody other than you tests the
> > application. Belive me, I have several years of experience and this is
> > very true.
> > C)The judge got confused on how to use your application (I'm being
> > nice here so that you can blame it on the judge, of course it is not
> > your application, it is perfect, a work of art, and this is the only
> > reason you did not win!)
> > On May 2, 5:25 pm, Incognito <androidf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > Fourth, we need an escalation process if we can prove that our
> > > > application was not evaluated fairly. We are dealing with globally-
> > > > written apps being globally evaluated – at a minimum, there are bound
> > > > to some language and cultural miscommunications.
> > > What are you? Insane? This will never happen. Seems to me like you
> > > rather work the angles rather than win the competition like everybody
> > > else.- Hide quoted text -
I'm not calling out anyone in particular, but I do want to remind folks to keep it friendly. I remember reading a post here where someone said something like "I have been working on my app in the evenings after I put my kids to bed." Those are a dedicated and passionate sort of people that deserve better than being called "whiners" or "insane", even if they are being a little over-sensitive. People have put a lot of work into their apps, and I find it perfectly natural for them to be thirsty for information.
To those who are waiting, I will quote Morpheus: "Rest Neo. The answers are coming." ;)
On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Chris D <chris.dam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I thought about flaming after I saw all the complainers, but thanks > for doing it for me. Wow, what a bunch of whiners developers are hey?
> On May 2, 6:07 pm, Incognito <androidf...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > I forgot to include another one and the most likely one. > > D) This is a conspiracy and the judges failed your application because > > they have in for you. They liked your application so much that they > > purposedly failed your application so they can steal it.
> > On May 2, 7:05 pm, Incognito <androidf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > One more thing, in the music business producers will only need to hear > > > a person for a minute or less to determine whether they like the > > > person or not. Same is the thing here. They do not need to spend half > > > an hour testing your application to determine whether they like it or > > > not. So if you only got a minute or so,well, I'm sorry to tell you > > > this but it could be that:
> > > A) Your application stinks from the judges perspective and no matter > > > how much you want them to look at it the longer they look at it the > > > stronger the stench. > > > B)Your application had a problem and failed to load or work as you > > > expected, this would not be unusual given that these are all first > > > versions and have not been thoroughly tested, even if you claim you > > > did. Things always fail when somebody other than you tests the > > > application. Belive me, I have several years of experience and this is > > > very true. > > > C)The judge got confused on how to use your application (I'm being > > > nice here so that you can blame it on the judge, of course it is not > > > your application, it is perfect, a work of art, and this is the only > > > reason you did not win!)
> > > On May 2, 5:25 pm, Incognito <androidf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > Fourth, we need an escalation process if we can prove that our > > > > > application was not evaluated fairly. We are dealing with > globally- > > > > > written apps being globally evaluated – at a minimum, there are > bound > > > > > to some language and cultural miscommunications.
> > > > What are you? Insane? This will never happen. Seems to me like you > > > > rather work the angles rather than win the competition like everybody > > > > else.- Hide quoted text -
Just want to pass this post from Dan onto everyone that didn't already
see it...scroll down a bit to see Dan's post. It should help answer
some questions about judging/server hits/....
On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 9:32 PM, Dan Morrill <morri...@google.com> wrote: > I'm not calling out anyone in particular, but I do want to remind folks to > keep it friendly. > I remember reading a post here where someone said something like "I have > been working on my app in the evenings after I put my kids to bed." Those > are a dedicated and passionate sort of people that deserve better than being > called "whiners" or "insane", even if they are being a little > over-sensitive. People have put a lot of work into their apps, and I find > it perfectly natural for them to be thirsty for information.
> To those who are waiting, I will quote Morpheus: "Rest Neo. The answers > are coming." ;)
> - Dan
> On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Chris D <chris.dam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I thought about flaming after I saw all the complainers, but thanks > > for doing it for me. Wow, what a bunch of whiners developers are hey?
> > On May 2, 6:07 pm, Incognito <androidf...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > I forgot to include another one and the most likely one. > > > D) This is a conspiracy and the judges failed your application because > > > they have in for you. They liked your application so much that they > > > purposedly failed your application so they can steal it.
> > > On May 2, 7:05 pm, Incognito <androidf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > One more thing, in the music business producers will only need to > > hear > > > > a person for a minute or less to determine whether they like the > > > > person or not. Same is the thing here. They do not need to spend > > half > > > > an hour testing your application to determine whether they like it > > or > > > > not. So if you only got a minute or so,well, I'm sorry to tell you > > > > this but it could be that:
> > > > A) Your application stinks from the judges perspective and no matter > > > > how much you want them to look at it the longer they look at it the > > > > stronger the stench. > > > > B)Your application had a problem and failed to load or work as you > > > > expected, this would not be unusual given that these are all first > > > > versions and have not been thoroughly tested, even if you claim you > > > > did. Things always fail when somebody other than you tests the > > > > application. Belive me, I have several years of experience and this > > is > > > > very true. > > > > C)The judge got confused on how to use your application (I'm being > > > > nice here so that you can blame it on the judge, of course it is not > > > > your application, it is perfect, a work of art, and this is the only > > > > reason you did not win!)
> > > > On May 2, 5:25 pm, Incognito <androidf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Fourth, we need an escalation process if we can prove that our > > > > > > application was not evaluated fairly. We are dealing with > > globally- > > > > > > written apps being globally evaluated – at a minimum, there are > > bound > > > > > > to some language and cultural miscommunications.
> > > > > What are you? Insane? This will never happen. Seems to me like you > > > > > rather work the angles rather than win the competition like > > everybody > > > > > else.- Hide quoted text -
> Thanks Dan for the understanding. I guess all who are participating the ADC
> are anxiously waiting ...
> On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 9:32 PM, Dan Morrill <morri...@google.com> wrote:
> > I'm not calling out anyone in particular, but I do want to remind folks to
> > keep it friendly.
> > I remember reading a post here where someone said something like "I have
> > been working on my app in the evenings after I put my kids to bed." Those
> > are a dedicated and passionate sort of people that deserve better than being
> > called "whiners" or "insane", even if they are being a little
> > over-sensitive. People have put a lot of work into their apps, and I find
> > it perfectly natural for them to be thirsty for information.
> > To those who are waiting, I will quote Morpheus: "Rest Neo. The answers
> > are coming." ;)
> > - Dan
> > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Chris D <chris.dam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I thought about flaming after I saw all the complainers, but thanks
> > > for doing it for me. Wow, what a bunch of whiners developers are hey?
> > > On May 2, 6:07 pm, Incognito <androidf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > I forgot to include another one and the most likely one.
> > > > D) This is a conspiracy and the judges failed your application because
> > > > they have in for you. They liked your application so much that they
> > > > purposedly failed your application so they can steal it.
> > > > On May 2, 7:05 pm, Incognito <androidf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > One more thing, in the music business producers will only need to
> > > hear
> > > > > a person for a minute or less to determine whether they like the
> > > > > person or not. Same is the thing here. They do not need to spend
> > > half
> > > > > an hour testing your application to determine whether they like it
> > > or
> > > > > not. So if you only got a minute or so,well, I'm sorry to tell you
> > > > > this but it could be that:
> > > > > A) Your application stinks from the judges perspective and no matter
> > > > > how much you want them to look at it the longer they look at it the
> > > > > stronger the stench.
> > > > > B)Your application had a problem and failed to load or work as you
> > > > > expected, this would not be unusual given that these are all first
> > > > > versions and have not been thoroughly tested, even if you claim you
> > > > > did. Things always fail when somebody other than you tests the
> > > > > application. Belive me, I have several years of experience and this
> > > is
> > > > > very true.
> > > > > C)The judge got confused on how to use your application (I'm being
> > > > > nice here so that you can blame it on the judge, of course it is not
> > > > > your application, it is perfect, a work of art, and this is the only
> > > > > reason you did not win!)
> > > > > On May 2, 5:25 pm, Incognito <androidf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Fourth, we need an escalation process if we can prove that our
> > > > > > > application was not evaluated fairly. We are dealing with
> > > globally-
> > > > > > > written apps being globally evaluated – at a minimum, there are
> > > bound
> > > > > > > to some language and cultural miscommunications.
> > > > > > What are you? Insane? This will never happen. Seems to me like you
> > > > > > rather work the angles rather than win the competition like
> > > everybody
> > > > > > else.- Hide quoted text -
Pete, I did a reality check on that one:
"I think all of us are very aware that Google Mobile is a multi-
billion dollar long term strategic investment "
Just checked Dice. There isn't exactly a rush to market, indicated by
players trying to load up on Android talent. Not that I am looking to
quite my dayjob, I have to clarify that. Makes me wonder if there's
anybody invested in Android outside Google.
On May 4, 9:27 am, Joa <Joachim.Pfeif...@gmail.com> wrote:
Joa, i hear you, i'm not quitting my day job either, but i hope in a
year or so that Android development will be my day job. Wayne Gretzky,
The Great One, usually wasn't where the puck is - he was where it
would be next. I think mobile development in general, and Android
specifically, will be big within the next year and grow over the next
few years, and we should be there early. like many of us who are
consultants, we have to learn the next thing early or risk getting
left behind.
regardless of the outcome of the ADC, i'm in this for the long haul.
On May 4, 1:08 pm, Joa <Joachim.Pfeif...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Pete, I did a reality check on that one:
> "I think all of us are very aware that Google Mobile is a multi-
> billion dollar long term strategic investment "
> Just checked Dice. There isn't exactly a rush to market, indicated by
> players trying to load up on Android talent. Not that I am looking to
> quite my dayjob, I have to clarify that. Makes me wonder if there's
> anybody invested in Android outside Google.
> On May 4, 9:27 am, Joa <Joachim.Pfeif...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On May 3, 9:32 pm, "Dan Morrill" <morri...@google.com> wrote:
> > > To those who are waiting, I will quote Morpheus: "Rest Neo. The answers
> > > are coming." ;)
> > We stirred the pot and thank you for working Sunday, and a sign that
> > we've gotten some attention.
> > I suppose this is all we are going to get until something official
> > comes out.- Hide quoted text -
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