More "Lost" stuff from San Diego...
rwgibson13
Been a while since I made that trip, but the ComiCon seems to be "the"
place to be...
http://tv.ign.com/articles/720/720495p1.html
The most interesting part IMO...
"Asked about the fact that each season only seems to cover just a few
weeks of time, Lindelof responded with, "You're making a basic
assumption that they've been there as long as [the characters] think
they've been there," and hinted that perception may be changed in
season 3."
I'm thinking that they've got something planned with the "off island"
scenes that may make it obvious that time passes differently on
Craphole than it does in the "real world."
RWG (also liked the bit about O'Quinn wanting to get his knives back
:-)
thinbluemime
wrote:
>
> Been a while since I made that trip, but the ComiCon seems to be "the"
> place to be...
>
> http://tv.ign.com/articles/720/720495p1.html
>
> The most interesting part IMO...
>
> "Asked about the fact that each season only seems to cover just a few
> weeks of time, Lindelof responded with, "You're making a basic
> assumption that they've been there as long as [the characters] think
> they've been there," and hinted that perception may be changed in
> season 3."
>
Well, i pissed and moaned about the sun going down and up on the same
horizon very early on. TIME is determined by the SUN, so dang-it, it may
very well turn out I was right. (where is Melroseman, when ya want to rub
something in?) :)
--
http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?blogcategory_id=218
Steven L.
> Been a while since I made that trip, but the ComiCon seems to be "the"
> place to be...
>
> http://tv.ign.com/articles/720/720495p1.html
>
> The most interesting part IMO...
>
> "Asked about the fact that each season only seems to cover just a few
> weeks of time, Lindelof responded with, "You're making a basic
> assumption that they've been there as long as [the characters] think
> they've been there," and hinted that perception may be changed in
> season 3."
>
>
> I'm thinking that they've got something planned with the "off island"
> scenes that may make it obvious that time passes differently on
> Craphole than it does in the "real world."
Yes, that is consistent with Damon's other hint that Walt may not be
gone off the show forever and that his growth spurt may be dealt with.
It is also not inconsistent with my speculation that The Others may be
immensely old (by our time reckoning). For all we know, Henry built the
four-toed statue himself centuries ago. And we know Hanso was
interested in life prolongation.
By our time reckoning, Henry may be a thousand years old. By his own
local island calendar, he may only have been there a few years.
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
rwgibson13
Yeah, kinda had that "Lost Horizon" feel for a while last year too,
especially with the Locke's "destiny" talk. Reminded me a lot of
Shangri-La...all that were missing were the monks (Others?). I always
thought it was strange that the producers would throw all these other
possible sources at us ("The Third Policeman," anyone? :-) and yet I'd
never seen a single producer's mention of the obvious parallels to both
the book and filmed versions of "Lost Horizon."
RWG (and I suppose that omission could have been deliberate)
Richard DeLuca
thinbluemime <thinbl...@tbm.com> wrote:
> >
> Well, i pissed and moaned about the sun going down and up on the same
> horizon very early on. TIME is determined by the SUN, so dang-it, it may
> very well turn out I was right. (where is Melroseman, when ya want to rub
> something in?) :)
Time is simply how we measure change, and strictly a manmade construct.
And sure we use the Sun, but we also use the Moon, the cesium atom, etc.
Even the most ignorant Losties would have noticed the Sun rising and
setting in the same direction, don'tcha think?
thinbluemime
Apparently not. In an earlier thread I pointed out that with the sun
setting in the west (seemingly most of the time), that NORTH would be off
the beach waterline that the losties spend most of their time on.
Nevertheless, they continue to go in the opposite direction, when they
head north.
BTW, at this point in time, I do not think the losties are ON earth, in
the normal sense of the word "ON". This may very well account for many of
the Lost mysteries. They are in a "Bloody Snow Globe". :)
--
http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?blogcategory_id=218
thinbluemime
<ody...@stny.rr.com.invalid> wrote:
Here is a blog link that might help
http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?post_id=1004
--
http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?blogcategory_id=218
tdciago
rwgibson13 wrote:
> Yeah, kinda had that "Lost Horizon" feel for a while last year too,
> especially with the Locke's "destiny" talk. Reminded me a lot of
> Shangri-La...all that were missing were the monks (Others?). I always
> thought it was strange that the producers would throw all these other
> possible sources at us ("The Third Policeman," anyone? :-) and yet I'd
> never seen a single producer's mention of the obvious parallels to both
> the book and filmed versions of "Lost Horizon."
>
> RWG (and I suppose that omission could have been deliberate)
One of the boxes in the Beechcraft read:
Hilton Tool & Machine Company
Bronx 60 NY
I commented on 4/6/05, "I wonder if 'Hilton' could be a nod to James
Hilton's novel "Lost
Horizon" (from 1933)," and got no follow-up replies.
tdciago
tdciago wrote:
> I commented on 4/6/05, "I wonder if 'Hilton' could be a nod to James
> Hilton's novel "Lost
> Horizon" (from 1933)," and got no follow-up replies.
For a funny review of the 1973 musical version of "Lost Horizon," see
http://www.thespinningimage.co.uk/cultfilms/displaycultfilm.asp?reviewid=881
Quote: "The World is A Circle" musical number plays like a
nightmarish version of "Do Re Mi" from The Sound of Music. In this
sequence Catherine (Liv Ullman), a Shangrila teacher sings to her
students that "the world is a circle without a beginning, nobody
knows where the circle ends".
Since the original title of "Lost" was "The Circle," and we have the
"bloody snowglobe / hollow Earth" theory, some "Lost Horizon"
discussion might be in order. I think I have the book, so I guess I'll
read it and compare it to the show.
Steven L.
Well, yeah, if they had admitted that, they've effectively revealed what
the ending of the show is.
Richard DeLuca
thinbluemime <thinbl...@tbm.com> wrote:
They are in a "Bloody Snow Globe". :)
I can't even picture a bloody snow globe.......... eeech!
:-)
rwgibson13
I suppose. Then, again, they can play around with the "time" thing in a
lot of ways that would be different from the way the book and films
portrayed it - the newcomers to Shangri-La weren't affected in the
short time they were there, only those born and/or raised there were
old enough to have problems when they left. It wasn't really a "time"
thing so much as something in the air or water or whatever that
retarded the aging process IIRC.
RWG (in any case, that sort of thing isn't really unique to the Hilton
novel anymore...)
rwgibson13
tdciago wrote:
> tdciago wrote:
> > I commented on 4/6/05, "I wonder if 'Hilton' could be a nod to James
> > Hilton's novel "Lost
> > Horizon" (from 1933)," and got no follow-up replies.
>
> For a funny review of the 1973 musical version of "Lost Horizon," see
> http://www.thespinningimage.co.uk/cultfilms/displaycultfilm.asp?reviewid=881
>
> Quote: "The World is A Circle" musical number plays like a
> nightmarish version of "Do Re Mi" from The Sound of Music. In this
> sequence Catherine (Liv Ullman), a Shangrila teacher sings to her
> students that "the world is a circle without a beginning, nobody
> knows where the circle ends".
I remember seeing that remake when I was a teen and even then I knew it
stunk to high heaven. I think it almost ruined Burt Bacharach's
career... Though that rapid-aging scene gave me shivvers for a couple
nights :-)
The original copy of the Capra version was damaged and was missing good
chunks, from what I can remember. They found the entire audio track
(with that wonderful Tiomkin score) and tried their best to reconstruct
it, but I think even the best print they could come up with still had
some pieces missing...that's why you very seldom see the full version
on television.
> Since the original title of "Lost" was "The Circle," and we have the
> "bloody snowglobe / hollow Earth" theory, some "Lost Horizon"
> discussion might be in order. I think I have the book, so I guess I'll
> read it and compare it to the show.
Well, the *surface* similarities are obvious (heck, just compare the
titles :-) :
- an airplane crash (maybe planned?) with survivors, one of whom is a
con man
- a location long hidden from the world at large
- strange healing properties that have something to do with the
location
- a long-lost group of humans, with eastern philosophies
- some of the survivors want to stay, some want to get back to
civilization
RWG (but as I mentioned to Steven, many other fictions with the same
similarites have come and gone since Hilton)
thinbluemime
Very, Very cool, td. Thank you for the find and sharing with us. I feel we
are heading in the right direction.
If you do read "Lost Horizon", I would really like to hear your review and
summary, when you get time. I have already read a review and the wiki
entry, but a "Lost" comparison summary would be great. Thanks again, for
this excellent find above :)
--
http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?blogcategory_id=218
thinbluemime
LOL...ya gots to say it wit a Scottish accent, brother!
--
http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?blogcategory_id=218
thinbluemime
>
> tdciago wrote:
>> I commented on 4/6/05, "I wonder if 'Hilton' could be a nod to James
>> Hilton's novel "Lost
>> Horizon" (from 1933)," and got no follow-up replies.
>
> For a funny review of the 1973 musical version of "Lost Horizon," see
> http://www.thespinningimage.co.uk/cultfilms/displaycultfilm.asp?reviewid=881
>
Quote: "Aside Mr. Bacharah’s tunes (excluding the lyrics), elaborate set
design and the sight of the
miniature model airplane"
hmmm....LOL
--
http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?blogcategory_id=218
tdciago
thinbluemime wrote:
> Quote: "Aside Mr. Bacharah's tunes (excluding the lyrics), elaborate set
> design and the sight of the
>
> miniature model airplane"
>
> hmmm....LOL
What cracked me up was that the choregrapher was Hermes Pan.
(Okay, so his last name was originally Pangiotopolous.) :)
Ted
"Steven L." wrote:
snip
> By our time reckoning, Henry may be a thousand years old. By his own
> local island calendar, he may only have been there a few years.
So his unaccented modern English would be a result of...?
rwgibson13
The producers not wanting to give out huge honking clues like that?
:-)
Seriously, I doubt he's supposed to be anywhere near that old, but even
if he (or anyone else on Craphole, for that matter) was supposed to be,
having them speak with realistic accents would give the whole thing
away.
RWG (but, man, would Sawyer have a field day coming up with new
nicknames :-)
Ryan Robbins
"thinbluemime" <thinbl...@tbm.com> wrote in message
news:op.tc52u...@emachine-3000.belkin...
Quit promoting your blog, fer chrissakes.
WG...@webtv.net
] redbi...@verizon.net (Ryan Robbins)
]Quit promoting your blog, fer chrissakes.
Who is chris?
RevNickie
tdciago wrote:
> Quote: "The World is A Circle" musical number plays like a
> nightmarish version of "Do Re Mi" from The Sound of Music. In this
> sequence Catherine (Liv Ullman), a Shangrila teacher sings to her
> students that "the world is a circle without a beginning, nobody
> knows where the circle ends".
This might sound silly, but...
The snow globe comment immediately made me thing of the 70's TV show
"Land of the Lost." This show was written by many people who became
semi-prominent sci-fi writers later on, and contained many intriguing
sci-fi concepts.
One of them was when the dad (or possibly the uncle, if it was later on
in the show's run) stood on a high hill and looked out with binoculars.
What he saw was the back of his head. He theorized that the place they
were in was a "closed universe," a little spatial bubble.
Other parallels include the fact that there were weather and biological
experiments going on there as well.
Just a thought.
-RevNickie
Steven L.
"Brigadoon," for one.
http://www.durham.net/~neilmac/brigdoon.htm
And it doesn't have to be conscious on the part of the writers. I'm
sure they've read all kinds of fantasy stories in their lifetimes, and
some of these themes may be bubbling up from their own subconscious long
after they've forgotten the original source.
Steven L.
Decades of intense study with new arrivals to the island, and even
communication with the outside world (which we now see is possible).
We know Kelvin was in Iraq in 1991. So he got the island afterward and
could have helped bring The Others up to speed on modern events and
vernacular.
If you were going to live for 500 years, you would have the time to
study and acquire the equivalent of a dozen doctoral degrees in
different fields.
Robert
rwgibson13 wrote:
> I'm thinking that they've got something planned with the "off island"
> scenes that may make it obvious that time passes differently on
> Craphole than it does in the "real world."
Even if time passes differently on the island, I don't see how the
island could have a different number of sunrises and sunsets than
anywhere else unless it's not actually on the same planet.
Doctor J. Frink
<sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote:
>
>If you were going to live for 500 years, you would have the time to
>study and acquire the equivalent of a dozen doctoral degrees in
>different fields.
You'd also have the time to forget most of it as well IME ;0).
Frink
--
Doctor J. Frink : 'Rampant Ribald Ringtail'
See his mind here : http://www.cmp.liv.ac.uk/frink/
Annoy his mind here : pjf at cmp dot liv dot ack dot ook
"No sir, I didn't like it!" - Mr Horse
Ryan Robbins
"Steven L." <sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:gY8xg.4314$157...@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Ted wrote:
>>
>> "Steven L." wrote:
>> snip
>>> By our time reckoning, Henry may be a thousand years old. By his own
>>> local island calendar, he may only have been there a few years.
>>
>> So his unaccented modern English would be a result of...?
>
> Decades of intense study with new arrivals to the island, and even
> communication with the outside world (which we now see is possible).
Maybe I'm forgetting something, but when did we learn of communication
between the island inhabitants and the outside world?
mpc
> Even if time passes differently on the island, I don't see how the
> island could have a different number of sunrises and sunsets than
> anywhere else unless it's not actually on the same planet.
Hmmmm.. but time passing differently could explain why some scenes were
oddly "nighttime" while others were in "daytime" then became nighttime
again.. NOT only time moved differently on the island in regards to the
rest of the world, but time moved differently on the island, too. An
example could be when Jack and Kate were attracted to the light beacon
from the supply drop (nighttime or maybe dusk), while others were off
having daytime adventures in the jungle.
Could it be NOT a production error, but in fact, a planned series of a
subtle clue?
-mike, <--who can actually travel-in-time: 60 minutes in only ONE hour!
Plus, I am writing this in the present for you to read in the future,
but it will already be in the past by the time you do! :o)
rwgibson13
Or detached from the planet in some way that makes the sunrises and
sunsets as seen on Craphole fairly meaningless to the real world. If
we're working under the assumption that Craphole is somehow physically
isolated from the "real world" in such a way that there is only one set
of coordinates that will let you enter or leave, and Desmond couldn't
even use the stars as a guide, it isn't that much of a leap to me to
think that the producers might simply say that the same effect causes
time to pass differently.
It's a similar situation to the debate we've been having about the
difference between fantasy and sf or even "pseudo sf." If we're going
to buy into the fact that Desmond can't sail by the stars, why
shouldn't we make the same assumption that the sun and moon aren't
reliable indicators either? After all, it's not all that hard to tell
direction by the direction that the sun rises and sets, is it?
RWG (yet Desmond seemingly couldn't do it)
thinbluemime
>
>> Even if time passes differently on the island, I don't see how the
>> island could have a different number of sunrises and sunsets than
>> anywhere else unless it's not actually on the same planet.
>
> Hmmmm.. but time passing differently could explain why some scenes were
> oddly "nighttime" while others were in "daytime" then became nighttime
> again.. NOT only time moved differently on the island in regards to the
> rest of the world, but time moved differently on the island, too. An
> example could be when Jack and Kate were attracted to the light beacon
> from the supply drop (nighttime or maybe dusk), while others were off
> having daytime adventures in the jungle.
>
> Could it be NOT a production error, but in fact, a planned series of a
> subtle clue?
>
I think so...the "errors" were to apparent, and "in your face".
And there is also that "dejavu dance" where events seems to loop in time.
That also was brushed off by fans as an error.
http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?post_id=2160
--
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tdciago
Robert wrote:
> Even if time passes differently on the island, I don't see how the
> island could have a different number of sunrises and sunsets than
> anywhere else unless it's not actually on the same planet.
It may not be on Earth, or it may be *inside* Earth, with an interior
sun as a reference point. But the producers are limited in the time
difference they can play with by the three years (island time) that
Desmond says he's spent on the island. We know that Jack and Desmond
met in our world some years ago. One could surmise that their meeting
in the stadium was in 2001. Jack did not seem to think there was
anything amiss with Desmond's claim that he'd been on the island for
three years, having washed up there during the race for which he was
training when they met. And when Desmond met Libby in the coffee shop,
everything looked quite modern (and his drink cost $4). Can we put a
date on the model year of Widmore's car, or the date range of the boat
race from the brochure?
If one island day equals two of our days, then the stadium meeting was
around 1998. Would Jack question the difference between 3 years and 6
years? Maybe.
If one island day equals three of our days, then the stadium meeting
was around 1995. Would Jack question the difference between 3 years
and 9 years? Most likely. If Penny Widmore and the
Portuguese-speaking guys in the finale are supposed to be from 2006,
then she would have aged 11 years since seeing Desmond at the stadium.
Libby would have aged 9 years from the coffee shop to flight 815.
If one island day equals four of our days, then the stadium meeting was
around 1992. I don't think that's even possible.
So, if the Others are human, I don't think they could be a thousand
years old, or even expect to live 500 of our years on the island.
*Maybe* the island could double one's lifetime in Earth years.
rwgibson13
tdciago wrote:
> It may not be on Earth, or it may be *inside* Earth, with an interior
> sun as a reference point. But the producers are limited in the time
> difference they can play with by the three years (island time) that
> Desmond says he's spent on the island. We know that Jack and Desmond
> met in our world some years ago. One could surmise that their meeting
> in the stadium was in 2001. Jack did not seem to think there was
> anything amiss with Desmond's claim that he'd been on the island for
> three years, having washed up there during the race for which he was
> training when they met.
Of course, that's assuming that Jack figured Desmond left for his
"race" just after that meeting. If Jack thinks about that kind of thing
at all :-)
> If Penny Widmore and the
> Portuguese-speaking guys in the finale are supposed to be from 2006,
> then she would have aged 11 years since seeing Desmond at the stadium.
> Libby would have aged 9 years from the coffee shop to flight 815.
Both of those are borderline possible, given the atrocious hair they
gave Libby as a "disguise" :-) And some here openly wondered why Penny
had a bunch of make-up on the counter next to her phone in that
scene...but my thinking is that the difference is not supposed to be
that great - just enough to give us the "hint" that time is not passing
at exactly the same rate. Since they're going to have the actress that
plays Libby back for some more "flashbacks" and seem to be saying those
flashbacks are important to the overall storyline, the whole "time"
thing could be a part of that. I doubt they'd bring her back just for
more Hurley or Desmond backstory, but you never know...
> So, if the Others are human, I don't think they could be a thousand
> years old, or even expect to live 500 of our years on the island.
Well, that all assumes the "time" factor is the only factor at work
here. As in "Lost Horizon," the aging thing might be directly
connected to something in the atmosphere or surrounding area of
Craphole...like any "healing" factor...
> *Maybe* the island could double one's lifetime in Earth years.
If that. I don't think Lindelof's comment was supposed to be taken as
much more than another reminder that Craphole Island is not exactly
where/when it seems to be. Of course, it might also play into
robgood's theory that something happened to the survivors (of the
middle section, at least) between the time the plane broke apart and
the time we saw Jack wake up in the pilot episode...
RWG (but my thinking is still that they have something planned as a
disconnect between island time and "real time")
Ted
"Steven L." wrote:
>
> Ted wrote:
> >
> > "Steven L." wrote:
> > snip
> >> By our time reckoning, Henry may be a thousand years old. By his own
> >> local island calendar, he may only have been there a few years.
> >
> > So his unaccented modern English would be a result of...?
>
> Decades of intense study with new arrivals to the island, and even
> communication with the outside world (which we now see is possible).
snip
Your statement cast that his passage of time over a thousand years was
only a few years on the island; that precludes years of study.
Ted
tdciago wrote:
snip
> If one island day equals two of our days, then the stadium meeting was
> around 1998. Would Jack question the difference between 3 years and 6
> years? Maybe.
snip
The trouble with this type of thing is that the observation hatch
printout would have had significant time discrepancies.
tdciago
Ted wrote:
> The trouble with this type of thing is that the observation hatch
> printout would have had significant time discrepancies.
Yes, yet another obstacle they'd have to explain somehow if time on the
island does not equal time in our world.
tdciago
rwgibson13 wrote:
I don't think Lindelof's comment was supposed to be taken as
> much more than another reminder that Craphole Island is not exactly
> where/when it seems to be. Of course, it might also play into
> robgood's theory that something happened to the survivors (of the
> middle section, at least) between the time the plane broke apart and
> the time we saw Jack wake up in the pilot episode...
Let's look at the quote again:
"Asked about the fact that each season only seems to cover just a few
weeks of time, Lindelof responded with, "You're making a basic
assumption that they've been there as long as [the characters] think
they've been there," and hinted that perception may be changed in
season 3."
Even if there was a time lag between the plane breaking up and Jack
waking up in the jungle, that wouldn't change the number of days that
the characters think they've been on the island. So I think he must be
suggesting that island time does not equal our Earth time.
thinbluemime
Easily explained...the isle computer printout is tied to the outside world
clock.
(I know there have been several comments about the season 2 finale, and
how many losties were shown wearing watches....anybody do screen caps and
compare timepiece times? :)
--
http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?blogcategory_id=218
tdciago
thinbluemime wrote:
> Easily explained...the isle computer printout is tied to the outside world
> clock.
In that case, wouldn't Desmond have noticed that the dates on the
printout were way off from his perceived notion of the correct date?
Desmond: When did you come here?
Locke: What?
Desmond: The island... when did you come here? How long ago?
Locke 60-65 days.
Desmond: The date... what was the date?
Locke: September 22nd.
[The numbers on the printout read 92204416 and are followed by System
Failure printed over and over]
Locke: It was September 22nd.
Desmond: I think I crashed your plane.
It's the "92204" (9/22/04) that I'm referring to.
Robert
rwgibson13 wrote:
> Robert wrote:
> > Even if time passes differently on the island, I don't see how the
> > island could have a different number of sunrises and sunsets than
> > anywhere else unless it's not actually on the same planet.
>
> Or detached from the planet in some way that makes the sunrises and
> sunsets as seen on Craphole fairly meaningless to the real world.
That's certainly possible, although I'd love to hear the explanation
the producers give us if that's the way they decide to go.
> It's a similar situation to the debate we've been having about the
> difference between fantasy and sf or even "pseudo sf." If we're going
> to buy into the fact that Desmond can't sail by the stars, why
> shouldn't we make the same assumption that the sun and moon aren't
> reliable indicators either?
I don't believe the problem for Desmond is that the stars are
unreliable, I think the problem is that space is warped to the effect
that going west from the island leads him back to the island much more
quickly than normal. It'll turn out to have something to do with the
"geologically unique" anomoly with probably the words "unified field
theory" or "event horizon" thrown in.
thinbluemime
Not necessarily. Desmond was nearly mad when he left the losties in the
hopes of returning to Penny. He did not have access to any accurate time
piece or calender that I am aware of, save the chicken scratches on the
swan bunker wall. He said he had been inside the artificially lit bunker
for 3 years....but with no clock, and no sun (to see) it would be normal
for his recognition of time to be WAY off.
And then the Pearl Bunker print out is presented to him by Locke in a
rush, with a cataclysmic event just moments away......and yes the printout
had the date of the crash, but Desmond was thinking in terms of weeks at
that point, not years.
--
http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?blogcategory_id=218
Robert
tdciago wrote:
> We know that Jack and Desmond
> met in our world some years ago. One could surmise that their meeting
> in the stadium was in 2001. Jack did not seem to think there was
> anything amiss with Desmond's claim that he'd been on the island for
> three years, having washed up there during the race for which he was
> training when they met.
That meeting is tied into another event, that of the death of Shannon's
father. I don't remember whether Shannon's age or Boone's age was
specified in that episode, but Shannon was out of high school and was
probably at least 18. On the island she gives her age as 20 when Boone
takes his census. You can kinda sorta fit three years into that gap by
saying she was nearly 21, and barely 18 in the flashback, but you can't
reasonably place the event more than three years before the crash.
rwgibson13
Hmm, that's not how I interpreted the quote. Remember, he was replying
specifically to the fact that the series seems to cover just a few
weeks of time. Since the characters are judging how long they've been
there from the day the plane left the airport and crashed (remember,
Locke gave Desmond the actual date of the crash so he could look it up
on the printout and that's what gave Desmond his "aha" moment), he
could be implying that there was a considerable gap between when the
plane broke apart in flashback and when the series started - as it
applies to the "real world."
RWG (although they seem to have ruled out "time travel" in general,
this could simply be another way of fudging)
rwgibson13
Frankly, I don't know if they'll even bother to try. If we don't ever
see that printout or have it ever mentioned again, I won't be surprised
in the least...
That whole "Pearl Bunker" storyline seemed extremely contrived to me,
meant only to set up the Locke/Eko confrontation and force the end to
the Swan hatch plotline. As I've pointed out with the whole "notebook
containers dumped in the middle of nowhere" thing, the Pearl subplot in
its entirely was extremely awkward to me - kind of an example of the
producers wanting to eat their cake and have it too...
RWG (wanting to have both the "button" mean something AND have a psych
experiment at the same time)
rwgibson13
Robert wrote:
> rwgibson13 wrote:
> > Robert wrote:
>
> > > Even if time passes differently on the island, I don't see how the
> > > island could have a different number of sunrises and sunsets than
> > > anywhere else unless it's not actually on the same planet.
> >
> > Or detached from the planet in some way that makes the sunrises and
> > sunsets as seen on Craphole fairly meaningless to the real world.
>
> That's certainly possible, although I'd love to hear the explanation
> the producers give us if that's the way they decide to go.
Shouldn't be any more difficult for the audience at large to swallow
than some of the other things I think they're going to eventually have
to explain...
Such as...
>
> > It's a similar situation to the debate we've been having about the
> > difference between fantasy and sf or even "pseudo sf." If we're going
> > to buy into the fact that Desmond can't sail by the stars, why
> > shouldn't we make the same assumption that the sun and moon aren't
> > reliable indicators either?
>
> I don't believe the problem for Desmond is that the stars are
> unreliable, I think the problem is that space is warped to the effect
> that going west from the island leads him back to the island much more
> quickly than normal. It'll turn out to have something to do with the
> "geologically unique" anomoly with probably the words "unified field
> theory" or "event horizon" thrown in.
See my point now? :-) If they're going to go into that kind of
technobabble bizarreness, the general couch potato audience is not
going to be anymore "lost" than if they just pull a Rod Serling-like TZ
fantasy explanation out of their collective asses to explain why the
sun sets and rises at a different schedule on Craphole...
RWG (as if Smokey wasn't hard enough to explain "rationally" to 16+
million viewers)
thinbluemime
wrote:
The psych experiment, IMO, was just filler time to keep the "observers",
busy and occupied, AND distracted from their real purpose. The logs were
totally useless after the time the observers completed their short 60 or
so day mission, so they were rubbish, to be discarded.
The 60 days wait and observe, is the time needed for the sickness to
appear, the virus to incubate.
(Why do an ordinary experiment on a dangerous "invisible" island, with all
the risk and associated cost, when the same experiment could be done in
Sidney, or Topeka, or Cincinnati?)
The experiment was a ruse, but the 60 plus day wait was real
--
http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?blogcategory_id=218
GMAN
>
>rwgibson13 wrote:
>> Robert wrote:
>
>> > Even if time passes differently on the island, I don't see how the
>> > island could have a different number of sunrises and sunsets than
>> > anywhere else unless it's not actually on the same planet.
>>
>> Or detached from the planet in some way that makes the sunrises and
>> sunsets as seen on Craphole fairly meaningless to the real world.
>
>That's certainly possible, although I'd love to hear the explanation
>the producers give us if that's the way they decide to go.
>
Maybe they are near a black hole or something and they are suffering some
einstein theory of space/time or something.
tdciago
GMAN wrote:
> Maybe they are near a black hole or something and they are suffering some
> einstein theory of space/time or something.
That's been discussed here, and there have been certain dialogue
snippets and plot points that could be clues to a black hole or
wormhole scenario.
See, for example:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.lost/msg/57281efb0a5692ff?dmode=source
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.lost/msg/949b898ee18c7f94?dmode=source
I've thought for a while now that the bit in the pilot episode with
Boone looking for a pen could have been a very early clue about this
theory.
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole , "In physics, a
wormhole (also known as Abbreviated Space) is a hypothetical
topological feature of spacetime that is essentially a 'shortcut' or
'abbreviation' through space and time. A wormhole has at least two
mouths which are connected to a single throat. If the wormhole is
traversable, matter can 'travel' from one mouth to the other by passing
through the throat."
Boone: Maybe we should do one of those hole things. You know, stick the
pen in the throat?
Jack: Yeah, good idea, you go get me a pen.
thinbluemime
Yes, the time warp, black hole theory is a possibility and could account
for the time discrepancies. But much of the above references could also be
to the hole entrance to the hollow earth.
I lean toward the hollow earth (Hades), although at first I hated the
idea. Now I love it. It solves the whispers, the lower levels of the
island (Locke was almost pulled into), it explains the ferry, and why
there will be so many new surprises when Henry takes the losties home. It
also partially answers my questions about the Islamic-Israeli evidence I
have compiled in the blog.
Here is a prediction.............going way out on a limb.......... Some of
those rocks on the island.......are alive.....or at least talk.
So now I move from mutations to talking rocks......lol!!
--
http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?blogcategory_id=218
Ted
thinbluemime wrote:
>
> On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:35:43 -0400, tdciago <tdc...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Ted wrote:
> >> The trouble with this type of thing is that the observation hatch
> >> printout would have had significant time discrepancies.
> >
> > Yes, yet another obstacle they'd have to explain somehow if time on the
> > island does not equal time in our world.
> >
> Easily explained...the isle computer printout is tied to the outside world
> clock.
Is there a screenshot with enough resolution to show whether or not
there are significantly less than 13.3 code entries per calendar day? Or
that the period is not about 108 minutes on the printout?
How specific has Danielle been about her arrival on the island? Sayid
had an estimate of about 16 years the repeating message must have been
running; that approximates the amount of island time Danielle has had.
Her technology is certainly not much pre-World War II (any definite
later material in her stash?), so no matter what, if there is a constant
time difference it can't be more than about 3X.
See also: Kelvin was certainly not on the island for the first gulf war;
he and Desmond spent two years together on the island, and his report
seemed to be that he had been on the island for years before that;
again, more than 3X constant time difference would be impossible.
thinbluemime
Recalling from my old memory, the printouts showed an entry every 108
minutes with a Pearl printout showing the date in a numerical format like
day:month:year or similar. I do not have caps hady at moment.
To me, Sayid suggested 16 years, and Danielle just seemed to accept that
figure, although Alex seems to me to be in her twenties not her teens.
(Alex is assumed to be Danielle's kidnapped daughter, seperated shortly
after birth)
--
http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime/?blogcategory_id=218
rwgibson13
Actually, her answer to him was "Has it been that long?"
RWG (so I hardly think she's been keeping track accurately)
mpc
"outside" world, that this is a constant, relative event, i.e. time is
slower on the island. At the same rate. (one month on-island equals say
2 minutes off-island... or maybe one day on-island equals one month
off-island).
But what if, on the island, that time itself is in fluctuation.
Maybe one day you find your way off the island and it's 2006, but maybe
on another day you leave it is 1985.
What if Walt and Michael, who left the island (if they ideed left the
island) and then come back, but the Losties haven't even crashed yet?
And they won't for another year. Or they could come back in a month
and the Losties have been there for 16 years...
And then, time itself could be fluctuating differently on different
parts of the island. The central part of the island could be faster (or
slower) than the outlaying parts of the island. Atoms could be moving
or expanding at different rates... much like space travel through the
galaxies!
Yikes! My head is spinning! Does string theory exist in a sci-fi LOST
world? And what are strings made of anyway??
And, on an aside: Does a heading of 325 still even work since Locke and
Mister Eko stopped pushing the button and Desmond turned the key?
-spinning-head mike, who must say that "string is evil".