British Article Accuses Seduction Gurus of SHILLING
Ray Gordon
Key quote:
"Just as raw as the accounts of the unhappy PUAs ("pick-up artists") are the
faux-testimonies doing the same job as the shills and plants of the 1890s
snake oil market."
The Magazine's review of blogs
By Alan Connor
Seduction guides are making the leap from online to print. But British men
aren't sold on the hard sell.
"Women are strange creatures. I don't think I will ever truly understand
them. I'm not really sure I want to."
-Seductionology
It had just about died, the idea that the web was crawling with nerdy men,
milquetoasts and sad sacks.
Ahh yes, the computer. By far the best way to meet people But with the
publication of two books, both of them focussed on seducing women - and both
of them putting on to paper tips and tricks which have been exchanged
online - the old canard is back. And little wonder, given weblog posts like
the above. It goes on:
"I'm certain I've just become something or somebody new. Or maybe I always
have been. A mysoginist (spelling?). Yes, I think, part of me hates women
and who they are and how manipulative THEY can be. Yet, I still want to be
with them, and feel empty without them."
The world of seduction tips recalls the 1920s Charles Atlas adverts
targeting wimps on the beach, with the 98lb weakling replaced by an "AFC"
("average frustrated chump"), and with any sense of self-improvement
replaced with the idea of tricking women into thinking they like you, backed
up with a heady mix of needy self-help manual and credulous business bible.
WEBLOG WATCH
Weblog Watch is the BBC News Magazine's weekly review of blogs You learn a
new language, and then go out armed with a fake set of personal belongings,
an armoury of mild insults (to intrigue your prey) and the support of your
buddies - the same guys you'll be reporting back to as soon as the encounter
is over.
One of the books which has taken this into the mainstream is called The
Game: Penetrating The Secret Society Of Pickup Artists; the other is The
Layguide: The Rules of the Game. Both refer extensively to online cabals of
determinedly-single men, consolidating the old stereotypes in newspapers
sold on the idea of an internet conspiracy dedicated to divining the ancient
secrets of What Women Want.
The only problem is that these super-pullers are at best misguided and at
worst wholly fictional.
Meanwhile and undaunted, the blogosphere is filling up with accounts of the
efficacy of various of these techniques - many undoubtedly fake, but some
genuine and intrigued.
To search the blogs for terms like "neil strauss" (one of the authors) or
"meeting hot women" is to enter a world of pain. Just as raw as the accounts
of the unhappy PUAs ("pick-up artists") are the faux-testimonies doing the
same job as the shills and plants of the 1890s snake oil market.
So, with the callow falling for catchwords like THE MOST DANGEROUS MISTAKE
THERE IS WITH WOMEN!, is anyone providing a corrective?
Well, there are some. Rainy Coast gives an unromanticised depiction of the
pick-up artist, recalling that the "men are really competing with each
other" and summing it up:
"Looking back I remember very little about the bedroom. It was more the
feeling - of yes, I've gotten a woman into bed."
while Yudhisthira portrays the damaged womaniser:
"it was just immaturity, commitment phobia... and the nagging feeling i was
missing something.... and here's to finding the perfect 10....... hope
she'll be happy with a 5".
However, even this gloom can be turned into a positive for those making
money from seductionology - you should embrace the self-pity, for having
been through a phase as a predatory would-be Lothario leaves you ready for
real commitment. At least, that's the spin.
Who knows, you might actually make friends
Of course, it doesn't really matter whether any of this works, since the
real targets for a suckering aren't women at all, but the adolescents and
kidults who might buy the MP3s, literature and "seminar courses". But again,
in some parts of frontiersville, such salesmanship is to be admired, whoever
it's directed at: "the rule is simple: use gimmicks and always close."
So what does it take to puncture this new supply of hot air?
Well, as it turns out, and as it might please you to read, there's a
cynicism in the Britblogs that's resistant to this persiflage, as expressed
by Innocent Bystander: "it can be done very easily... just pick someone and
ask them, if they say 'no', lower your standards slightly and repeat and
repeat".
A tale of having scored the phone number of a Playboy Playmate is much more
likely to meet with a "chinny reckon" than a high-five on this side of the
Atlantic, and the big sell flounders when met with the sort of stoicism
exhibited by Artegall:
"I wonder how women feel about all this? Does it make them look stupid and
vulnerable? Well, I don't think these techniques work with all women, and
are obviously more likely to work in a Walkabout full of drunk young people
than a cocktail party. The point is, it's not that hard to hook up, and I
guess many people knew that anyway."
No Rock has the harshest description of the phenomenon ("the unspeakable in
pursuit of the untreatable"); perhaps women can rest easy for the moment,
confident that all these tricks - from fake holiday snaps to watered-down
neurolinguistic programming - aren't really catching on over here.
Even if it's just that we're not prepared to put our hands in our pockets,
that might be a wise response. After all, if a man tries to sell you a con
trick, the point of the con is probably to try and get your money.
--
"Google maintains the USENET." -- The Honorable R. Barclay Surrick, Eastern
District of PA Judge
From Parker v. Google, E.D.Pa. #04-cv-3918
Thrasher Remailer
In an attempt to eliminate disruption caused by this individual in the
alt.seduction.fast newsgroup, along with spam, misinformation, off-topic,
and other worthless posts, alt.seduction.fast now also has a website
and discussion forums in which this individual is prevented from posting.
The website forums have proven extremely popular and successful since
off-topic material and bad behavior is prevented there. The forums are
COMPLETELY FREE to both read and to post to. See the footer in the message
for more information.
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
New visitors to alt.seduction.fast are welcomed and directed to the main website
http://www.fastseduction.com
Most seduction discussion has been relocated to the forums on this website, which
can be accessed through your news reader just like this newsgroup, or through a
web interface. The forums were created as an alternative to the large amount of
spamming, misinformation, and offensive behavior by a high-volume poster known to
unfotunately suffer disabling mental illness, in the regular alt.seduction.fast
newsgroup.
Anyone can read forum articles but registration is required (which can be done
through an anonymous email account) in order to post articles. This effectively
prevents disruptive individuals from posting and results in a MUCH more useful and
productive forum.
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Now Im Confused
"""
Of course, it doesn't really matter whether any of this works, since
the real targets for a suckering aren't women at all, but the
adolescents and kidults who might buy the MP3s, literature and
"seminar courses". But again, in some parts of frontiersville, such
salesmanship is to be admired, whoever it's directed at: "the rule is
simple: use gimmicks and always close."
"""
I really agree with this, i don't know that it was always true, maybe
some long time readers can tell us more but it seems like the more
main stream this gets the more Keyboard Jockeys will be made. I think
more and more there will be a draw for those who will wish to become
popular in the community instead of self improvement leading to
betterment with women.
I liken it to the hacker/phreaker scene where in the begining it was
"all" about people who were into seeing how things work and then
having a little fun in the end. Soon it became cool and was all about
the style not about the life style. About bragging rights not about
know how.
--
70/3 = 23.333
Ray Gordon
> Of course, it doesn't really matter whether any of this works, since
> the real targets for a suckering aren't women at all, but the
> adolescents and kidults who might buy the MP3s, literature and
> "seminar courses". But again, in some parts of frontiersville, such
> salesmanship is to be admired, whoever it's directed at: "the rule is
> simple: use gimmicks and always close."
> """
>
> I really agree with this, i don't know that it was always true, maybe
> some long time readers can tell us more but it seems like the more
> main stream this gets the more Keyboard Jockeys will be made. I think
> more and more there will be a draw for those who will wish to become
> popular in the community instead of self improvement leading to
> betterment with women.
Actually, the goal of "game" is BETTER RESULTS WITH WOMEN, not "betterment
with women." If "betterment" is defined as being what women want, then the
guy is a supplicating AFC chump who is back where he started.
It's kind of like when the first person taught pickpocketing or even gave it
the name that everyone came to know it by. People then learned what it was
and developed countermeasures, even though a skilled pickpocket will still
be able to do his work. It's those who don't have the best skills who will
suffer the most from this, but this used to be the gurus' best market. Now
they are the most difficult to help, in part because of the gurus
themselves.
Now Im Confused
"Ray Gordon" <R...@cybersheet.com> writes:
> > """
> > Of course, it doesn't really matter whether any of this works, since
> > the real targets for a suckering aren't women at all, but the
> > adolescents and kidults who might buy the MP3s, literature and
> > "seminar courses". But again, in some parts of frontiersville, such
> > salesmanship is to be admired, whoever it's directed at: "the rule is
> > simple: use gimmicks and always close."
> > """
> >
> > I really agree with this, i don't know that it was always true, maybe
> > some long time readers can tell us more but it seems like the more
> > main stream this gets the more Keyboard Jockeys will be made. I think
> > more and more there will be a draw for those who will wish to become
> > popular in the community instead of self improvement leading to
> > betterment with women.
>
> Actually, the goal of "game" is BETTER RESULTS WITH WOMEN, not "betterment
> with women." If "betterment" is defined as being what women want, then the
> guy is a supplicating AFC chump who is back where he started.
>
I disagree, its about self discovery and betterment of oneself, women
are just a part of the whole process.
Again remember the big bright room is a place where some of sometimes
go.
--
70/3 = 23.333
Ray Gordon
>> > the real targets for a suckering aren't women at all, but the
>> > adolescents and kidults who might buy the MP3s, literature and
>> > "seminar courses". But again, in some parts of frontiersville, such
>> > salesmanship is to be admired, whoever it's directed at: "the rule is
>> > simple: use gimmicks and always close."
>> > """
>> >
>> > I really agree with this, i don't know that it was always true, maybe
>> > some long time readers can tell us more but it seems like the more
>> > main stream this gets the more Keyboard Jockeys will be made. I think
>> > more and more there will be a draw for those who will wish to become
>> > popular in the community instead of self improvement leading to
>> > betterment with women.
>>
>> Actually, the goal of "game" is BETTER RESULTS WITH WOMEN, not
>> "betterment
>> with women." If "betterment" is defined as being what women want, then
>> the
>> guy is a supplicating AFC chump who is back where he started.
>>
>
> I disagree, its about self discovery and betterment of oneself, women
> are just a part of the whole process.
The motivation is to get laid. Most guys who start out were guys who had
developed themselves just fine. The "improvement" always is geared towards
doing something likely to improve a guy's chances of getting laid.
"Better" is a subjective term, and a lot of what is "better" for the PUA
isn't "better" for his targets, hence the need for deception.
Alex
R...@cybersheet.com wrote on 4/10/06 6:54 PM:
Gordon betrays his mindset in this post.
Why would anyone pay him for advice?
Odious
"Ray Gordon" <R...@cybersheet.com> wrote in message
news:e8edncp93c0...@pghconnect.com...
>> """
>> Of course, it doesn't really matter whether any of this works, since
>> the real targets for a suckering aren't women at all, but the
>> adolescents and kidults who might buy the MP3s, literature and
>> "seminar courses". But again, in some parts of frontiersville, such
>> salesmanship is to be admired, whoever it's directed at: "the rule is
>> simple: use gimmicks and always close."
>> """
>>
>> I really agree with this, i don't know that it was always true, maybe
>> some long time readers can tell us more but it seems like the more
>> main stream this gets the more Keyboard Jockeys will be made. I think
>> more and more there will be a draw for those who will wish to become
>> popular in the community instead of self improvement leading to
>> betterment with women.
>
> Actually, the goal of "game" is BETTER RESULTS WITH WOMEN, not "betterment
> with women." If "betterment" is defined as being what women want,
This idea is very hard for ray to understand because he is incapable of
self-improvement.
When presented with the idea that improving yourself will make women want
you more, his warped mind translated that into changing yourself at the
behest of women.
When in reality what we are actually talking about is changing yourself for
yourself, and women being attracted to the result. However this is not
something that someone with gordo's mental limitations can process.
then the
> guy is a supplicating AFC chump who is back where he started.
>
> It's kind of like when the first person taught pickpocketing or even gave
> it the name that everyone came to know it by. People then learned what it
> was and developed countermeasures, even though a skilled pickpocket will
> still be able to do his work. It's those who don't have the best skills
> who will suffer the most from this,
How does someone without the best skills develop them... by learning from
someone who does have those skills, jackass.
> but this used to be the gurus' best market.
According to whom?
Your failed business proves that you have no understanding of marketing.
> Now they are the most difficult to help, in part because of the gurus
> themselves.
>
Actually they are the easiest to help... but then if you had any real
experience, you'd know that. But since you're just a fraud with no real
experience with women other than your mommy, you have nothing upon which to
base your claims other than the latest episode of oprah.
Odious
>>> > Of course, it doesn't really matter whether any of this works, since
>>> > the real targets for a suckering aren't women at all, but the
>>> > adolescents and kidults who might buy the MP3s, literature and
>>> > "seminar courses". But again, in some parts of frontiersville, such
>>> > salesmanship is to be admired, whoever it's directed at: "the rule is
>>> > simple: use gimmicks and always close."
>>> > """
>>> >
>>> > I really agree with this, i don't know that it was always true, maybe
>>> > some long time readers can tell us more but it seems like the more
>>> > main stream this gets the more Keyboard Jockeys will be made. I think
>>> > more and more there will be a draw for those who will wish to become
>>> > popular in the community instead of self improvement leading to
>>> > betterment with women.
>>>
>>> Actually, the goal of "game" is BETTER RESULTS WITH WOMEN, not
>>> "betterment
>>> with women." If "betterment" is defined as being what women want, then
>>> the
>>> guy is a supplicating AFC chump who is back where he started.
>>>
>>
>> I disagree, its about self discovery and betterment of oneself, women
>> are just a part of the whole process.
>
> The motivation is to get laid.
One of several motivations is to get laid... but again since you are a fraud
with no real experience, you wouldn't know that.
> Most guys who start out were guys who had developed themselves just fine.
Wrong... again shitstain, your lack of real experience shines through as
clear as day.
> The "improvement" always is geared towards doing something likely to
> improve a guy's chances of getting laid.
>
Poor weak little mama's boy gordo is so locked into his AFC-ness that he can
not see beyond pussy.
It is so ingrained in his widdle brain that he can not conceive of any
action taken absent the motivation of some vagina. Guess that is to be
expected from a 40 year old boy who still hides behind his mommy apron.
> "Better" is a subjective term, and a lot of what is "better" for the PUA
> isn't "better" for his targets, hence the need for deception.
Maybe in your case, since you have nothing to offer a woman but shame and
herpes. You have to lie and hide who you really are.
For a real seducer, this is not the case, as we know that women are left
better for having had experienced us.
Thrasher Remailer
In an attempt to eliminate disruption caused by this individual in the
Thrasher Remailer
In an attempt to eliminate disruption caused by this individual in the
Now Im Confused
"Ray Gordon" <R...@cybersheet.com> writes:
> > I disagree, its about self discovery and betterment of oneself, women
> > are just a part of the whole process.
>
> The motivation is to get laid. Most guys who start out were guys
> who had developed themselves just fine. The "improvement" always is
> geared towards doing something likely to improve a guy's chances of
> getting laid.
>
> "Better" is a subjective term, and a lot of what is "better" for the
> PUA isn't "better" for his targets, hence the need for deception.
>
You have a very narrow view of the community. You should try getting
into that place we called "the field" its just like a computer only
there your theory's can be put into practice.
--
70/3 = 23.333
Ray Gordon
>> who had developed themselves just fine. The "improvement" always is
>> geared towards doing something likely to improve a guy's chances of
>> getting laid.
>>
>> "Better" is a subjective term, and a lot of what is "better" for the
>> PUA isn't "better" for his targets, hence the need for deception.
>>
>
> You have a very narrow view of the community. You should try getting
> into that place we called "the field" its just like a computer only
> there your theory's can be put into practice.
Wow, another "game newbie."
The "community" you refer to was BUILT in signficant part on MY THEORY
(pivot, reverse timetable, indirect seduction, gimmicks, and even
"lifestyle" stuff that was dismissed as basic in 1998 when I wrote about
it).
I was out "in the field" for years before many "community" guys were even
BORN. Not only that, but I grew up in NYC with the world's best nightlife
literally next door to me and was able to experience it since age 15.
I'm sitting on a PILE of new theory that I've been putting into practice in
the "field" with excellent results, and at my age, with my income and
"lifestyle" that's something I'm damn proud of, but I already proved myself
last time around to the point where people stole my shit. Enough of my old
stuff still works well enough that people could even work with my free
material and likely never have to dig any further.
John Michaels
brag about.
johnebravo836
[snip]
> Wow, another "game newbie."
>
> The "community" you refer to was BUILT in signficant part on MY THEORY
> (pivot, reverse timetable, indirect seduction, gimmicks, and even
> "lifestyle" stuff that was dismissed as basic in 1998 when I wrote about
> it).
Yet another unintentionally hilarious remark from Mr. Parker. Just
priceless, really.
>
> I was out "in the field" for years before many "community" guys were even
> BORN.
Yeah, *left* field -- far, *far* out in left field.
> Not only that, but I grew up in NYC with the world's best nightlife
> literally next door to me and was able to experience it since age 15.
>
> I'm sitting on a PILE of new theory
Well, he might be sitting on a pile of *something* . . .
> that I've been putting into practice in
> the "field" with excellent results, and at my age, with my income and
> "lifestyle" that's something I'm damn proud of, but I already proved myself
> last time around to the point where people stole my shit. Enough of my old
> stuff still works well enough that people could even work with my free
> material and likely never have to dig any further.
And yet he still can't manage to post a simple photo of him with an
actual *woman* to whom he is not related. (I understand he's tried
posting fake ones at times, though, claiming it was a girlfriend . . .)
All those "excellent results" -- and not a single snapshot to prove that
there's at least one woman somewhere who could tolerate his presence for
the few moments necessary to take a picture.
It's uncanny how camera shy all of Mr. Parker's women are . . .
Thrasher Remailer
In an attempt to eliminate disruption caused by this individual in the
tjj
>The "community" you refer to was BUILT in signficant part on MY THEORY
>(pivot, reverse timetable, indirect seduction, gimmicks, and even
>"lifestyle" stuff that was dismissed as basic in 1998 when I wrote about
>it).
THIS is grp-ie's 'method', as he defends it :
>>Path: news.alt.net!anon.lcs.mit.edu!nym.alias.net!mail2news
>>Cc: cave...@nni.com
>>Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 07:58:08 -0400
>>Subject: Ray Takes FULL RESPONSIBLITY For The Michelle Mistake
>>Message-ID: <20000628.075839.-285523.10.The...@juno.com>
>>X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11
>>X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3,6-9,17-18,20-21,29-30,40-41,48-49,61-62,71-72,84-85,94-95,105-106,
>>115-116,126-127,133-134,154-155,164-165,178-179,187-188,196-199,201-202,206-207,212-213,
>>215-216,219-220,222-226,228-231,237-238,241-246,249-250,257-258,264-265,274-275,289-290,293-300
>>X-Juno-Att: 0
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>From: The Seduction Library <the______seductio...@juno.com>
>>Mail-To-News-Contact: postm...@nym.alias.net
>>Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
>>Newsgroups: alt.romance
>>Lines: 307
>>Xref: news alt.romance:246369
>>WARNING: If Oedipus, Krusty or Tusky respond to this message in any way,
>>I will return to ASF immediately. If they want me off that newsgroup
>>they can stay the hell out of my threads.
>>Read up. I post this not for myself, because I don't care what people
>>think of me. I post this for my METHOD, because it's being destroyed by
>>attacks on its creator.
>>I am going to clear the record on a few things here:
>>1. I DID wish death on Michelle's daughter Cierra. I did so in an
>>attempt to snap her back to reality after she had used others' defamation
>>of me as leverage to get me to want her. Why did I "hurt" her? I DID
>>NOT TALK TO HER. That's correct: my crime with Michelle was not falling
>>back in love with her after she had fallen in love with me for four
>>months, IMing me constantly, E-mailing me constantly, BEGGING me to love
>>her the way I "loved" "Dominique" (these two are in quotes because I
>>neither loved her nor necessarily knew her).
>>2. Wishing death on someone is not a crime. The words were spoken in
>>anger, after MONTHS of provocation
------------------------------------
>I was out "in the field" for years before many "community" guys were even
>BORN. Not only that, but I grew up in NYC with the world's best nightlife
>literally next door to me and was able to experience it since age 15.
And all you got out of it was ya abusive's mommie's BF of the hour beating
you up while she cheered him on. 15 in nite clubs? Against the law, loser.
>I'm sitting on a PILE of new theory that I've been putting into practice in
>the "field" with excellent results, and at my age, with my income and
>"lifestyle"....
and U got yer herpes, ur ace in the hole...
>.....that's something I'm damn proud of, but I already proved myself
>last time around to the point where people stole my shit. Enough of my old
>stuff still works well enough that people could even work with my free
>material and likely never have to dig any further.
..I'm sure yer world wide network of super duper lawyers who are ready to sue
"..anyone..anywhere..anytime.." to get even with all the "..cunts n whores.."
JJT
>] From: ask...@hotmail.com
>] Subject: Re: Guess what? Ray won't talk to me!!! =)
>] Date: 1998/03/19
>] Message-ID: <6esj9d$7ak$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>] Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics
>]
>] As for being her Number One Fan, I claimed that title during our
>] blowout over Bela. What's not to love about a 13 year-old with
>] the intensity of Madonna? Couldn't help it.
--------------------
>] From: ray...@hotmail.com
>] Subject: Re: Confirm it or SHUT UP!
>] Date: 1998/04/05
>] Message-ID: <6g7jat$v9s$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>] Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics
>]
>] Whether you choose to believe it or not, the story is true.
>] Dominique Moceanu really is An American Slave. To cheer her
>] gymnastics is to root for child abuse, and that is something
>] I refuse to do. To punish her for her personality that cries
>] out that she is an abused child is also a crime in my book,
>] and that is why she has my unconditional love, and why she
>] always will, whether she loves me enough to want to marry me,
>] whether she hates me enough to want to kill me, or both.
-----------------------
>] From: sotw...@mindspring.com (Ray Gordon)
>] Subject: Re: Dominique
>] Date: 1997/12/27
>] Message-ID: <34a5602a...@news.mindspring.com>#1/1
>] X-Deja-AN: 310586820
>] References: <34a43380....@news.mindspring.com>
>] <682vli$52p$1...@newsd-153.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
>] X-Server-Date: 27 Dec 1997 20:11:50 GMT
>] Organization: ICN
>] Reply-To: sotwa...@mindspring.com
>] Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics
>]
>] I talked to Dominique almost every day for SIX MONTHS, and
>] talked to her many times this week alone. Also talked with
>] her for an hour on her 16th birthday. Did you?
>]
>] Have fun with your unrequited obsession. At least Dominique
>] WANTS to talk to me sometimes...
------------------
>] From: ask...@hotmail.com
>] Subject: Re: Dominique Sends A Signal
>] Date: 1998/03/20
>] Message-ID: <6eus1p$fpf$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>#1/1
>] X-Deja-AN: 336058962
>] Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion
>] X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Mar 20 22:55:54 1998 GMT
>] Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics
>]
>] I love Dominique very much. Not sexually, not romantically,
>] don't even know if there's a category for it. She has more
>] class in one of her molecules than the rest of the world seems
>] to have in its collective bodies, minds, and souls.>
>]----------------
>According to the biography on her official website, Dominique
>Moceanu was 14 years old at the Atlanta Olympics, meaning that
>in 1997 she would have been only 15. She was 16 in 1998..
>]-------------
>]] From: Nice Guys Get Screwed Over <you___will...@juno.com>
>]] Subject: Why Lawyers Are Pathetic BOYS: Sexual Harassment And
>]] Discrimination In The Legal Profession
>]] Date: 2000/03/07
>]] Message-ID: <20000307.084625.-
>]496475.20.You__...@juno.com>
>]] X-Deja-AN: 594255687
>]] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>]] Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
>]] Mail-To-News-Contact: postm...@nym.alias.net
>]] X-Juno-Att: 0
>]] Content-Type: text/plain
>]] X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,7-8,14-15,21-28
>]] MIME version: 1.0
>]] Newsgroups: alt.lawyers.sue.sue.sue
>]] Sexual harassment and discrimination occur a lot in law because
>]] men hold the power, and women like the plush office environments
>]] and relatively easy work at high pay. Many legal secretaries were
>]] once gymnasts, dominatrixes, strippers, dancers, Hooter Girls,
>]] and other female sexual performers.
Odious
>>> The motivation is to get laid. Most guys who start out were guys
>>> who had developed themselves just fine. The "improvement" always is
>>> geared towards doing something likely to improve a guy's chances of
>>> getting laid.
>>>
>>> "Better" is a subjective term, and a lot of what is "better" for the
>>> PUA isn't "better" for his targets, hence the need for deception.
>>>
>>
>> You have a very narrow view of the community. You should try getting
>> into that place we called "the field" its just like a computer only
>> there your theory's can be put into practice.
>
> Wow, another "game newbie."
>
> The "community" you refer to was BUILT in signficant part on MY THEORY
> (pivot, reverse timetable, indirect seduction, gimmicks, and even
> "lifestyle" stuff that was dismissed as basic in 1998 when I wrote about
> it).
LOL! Ray you continue to posts these lies and I'll continue to point out
each and every one of the ideas you claim you introduced were in use prior
to you ever showing up in ASF.
____________________________________________________________________
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.seduction.fast/msg/a00c5047e41ac4af?dmode=source&hl=en
___________________________________________________________________
From: r__a_y__g___ord_...@juno.com (Outfoxing The Foxes)
Subject: Re: FOX hunt Challenge?!
Date: 1998/10/15
A lot of what I write incorporates Ross's methods. I talk about
"indirect seduction" and he calls it "running patterns."
___________________________________________________________________
"<------Yes, Odious defined what a Secret Slut is, but I gave it the
NAME. And the NAME is important."
___________________________________________________________________
> Many who post here often cite methods which I designed, but which they
> "learned" through gurus who stole them from me. They include: pivot,
Ignoring the truth won't make the truth go away, ray.
I've shown the term "pivot" being used in ASF as far back as 96 in reference
to 3-way relationships.
I also cited a newsletter from Ross that was posted to ASF way back in 96
that contains a reference to Cialdini's "weapons of automatic influence."
Which include social proof and predate your shit by 3 years.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.mindcontrol/msg/6ebd113e873e2275?d
So not only was the idea of social proof already in use , and being promoted
in ASF and the seduction community before you got here, but the term pivot
was also in use to describe the same basic idea of a guy swinging between
two girls. So you didn't even come up with the term.
You took ideas already in use in ASF and tried to take credit for inventing
them.
>reverse-timetable,
Love Tactics, McKnight/Phillips, copyright 1988, pages 40-44.
In particular, page 43:
"How do you succeed in this? By being slow to reveal your anxiousness
to see the one you want all the time. Let the person think that you
only have limited intentions of getting together again in the future
[...] As long as you keep a person believing that the relationship is
merely casual, time will be on your side."
> incorporating seduction into one's lifestyle (that's what Foxhunting is),
__________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Gordon" <r...@cybersheet.com>
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: "Lifestyle" is NOT a "seduction technique"
Message-ID: <Xodof.12038$Ys4....@twister.nyc.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:33:59 GMT
Lots of "seduction gurus" today preach the importance of LIFESTYLE in
seduction. It's a crock of shit designed to cover the fact that the advice
to improve one's "lifestyle" is in fact advice to get more MONEY with which
to BUY women.
___________________________________________________________________
Oooh my, looks like ray was attacking the idea of incorporating seduction
into your lifestyle... although when it comes to indirect seduction via
lifestyle improvments, what did gordo have to say about it...
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.seduction.fast/msg/a00c5047e41ac4af?dmode=source&hl=en
___________________________________________________________________
From: r__a_y__g___ord_...@juno.com (Outfoxing The Foxes)
Subject: Re: FOX hunt Challenge?!
Date: 1998/10/15
A lot of what I write incorporates Ross's methods. I talk about
"indirect seduction" and he calls it "running patterns."
___________________________________________________________________
No wonder gordo hates the google archives so much.
> CUPID,
The arbitrary and inaccurate rating system that determines what YOU think
women find most attractive.
The crux of which was to be rich, buff, and good looking to improve your
chances with women, which as advice goes is about as unoriginal as you can
get. That shit was covered by Ovid thousands of years ago.
> and returning fox,
Was already in ASF and called turning the tables... renaming existing ideas
does not make them your ideas.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.seduction.fast/msg/5d72beacde9bc546?dmode=source&hl=en
___________________________________________________________________
From: DrSmooth <DrSm0...@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: boyfriend destroyer
Date: 1996/09/10
Message-ID: <32351C...@ix.netcom.com>#1/1
x-netcom-date: Tue Sep 10 2:38:46 AM CDT 1996
Turning the Tables (which i chose to do, revenge motivated probably)
The best thing i used that works was a combination of techniques. First
stop sending the cards, flowers blah blah blah.... Pull away your
attention, suddenly works best. You see she is used to having you want
her and when she feels thats gone she will want it back. I dont care if
you have to take cold shower to do this but it is necessary. THe best
way is to have many options open which lets u do it naturally but
anyways will do.
Second, Start dating other girls, even let her know about it (no
obviously) that will drive her crazy! guaranteed...she will want you
more if you use that in combination with the dramatic decrease in
attention.....
Third after awhile of thise you will notice she will come after you (90
% of the time and if not screw her), and then you have to pounce, go for
it straight off...when you hook up the most important thing is not to
slip back into your old mode again...keep going with the same thing even
after you hook up. She will want you even more bad! trust me...
This worked well for me, i had the girl that was screwing with my mind
for a year in the sack no problem, begging for me to be her boyfriend.
No joke, (Thanks to the mighty jefferies of course)...i told her thanks
but no thanks and denied her, why the hell would u want to date a girl
like that?....
Remember what RS says, never make anything too important like your doing
now, or you will get your ass kicked!
Hope this helps..keep us updated...
DS
___________________________________________________________________
> to name several.
Yeah several ideas you took from ASF, renamed, and tried to claim were your
orginal creation.
> I was out "in the field" for years before many "community" guys were even
> BORN. Not only that, but I grew up in NYC with the world's best nightlife
> literally next door to me and was able to experience it since age 15.
>
Yet you've publicly stated in your whole life you've only has sex with about
20 women.
> I'm sitting on a PILE of new theory that I've been putting into practice
> in the "field" with excellent results,
Such incredible results that you still can't get a woman to take a picture
with you. LOL!
> and at my age, with my income and "lifestyle"
You mean being a bankrupt loser who lives with his mother.
> that's something I'm damn proud of, but I already proved myself last time
> around to the point where people stole my shit.
And yet, you're the one who has admitted to stealing from others.
___________________________________________________________________
From: r__a_y__g___ord_...@juno.com (Outfoxing The Foxes)
Subject: Re: FOX hunt Challenge?!
Date: 1998/10/15
A lot of what I write incorporates Ross's methods. I talk about
"indirect seduction" and he calls it "running patterns."
___________________________________________________________________
"<------Yes, Odious defined what a Secret Slut is, but I gave it the
NAME. And the NAME is important."
___________________________________________________________________
> Enough of my old stuff still works well enough that people could even work
> with my free material and likely never have to dig any further.
LOL!!!
Ray once again runs like the coward we all know him to be, when confronted
with the clear simple truth that he knows he can not refute.
I took the ideas and concepts that he claims he invented, and one by one
pointed out specific examples of those ideas and concepts being in use well
before ray's books ever came out.
And ray can't face the truth...
Odious
"tjj" <tjjt> wrote in message
news:jqru325vuo5e1eerp...@4ax.com...
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>>I was out "in the field" for years before many "community" guys were even
>>BORN. Not only that, but I grew up in NYC with the world's best nightlife
>>literally next door to me and was able to experience it since age 15.
>
> And all you got out of it was ya abusive's mommie's BF of the hour beating
> you up while she cheered him on. 15 in nite clubs? Against the law,
> loser.
>
Naaa. he's lying. He's painted himself into a corner regarding the
timeline of his life.
We know when he declared bankruptcy and we know he's spent the better part
of almost every day on usenet or trying to sue somebody for about the last
10 to 12 years. Which means the window for what point in his life he wasn't
a total loser is getting smaller and smaller.
He has to go back more and more to try and claim that he wasn't a loser for
some period in his life.
Pretty soon he'll be bragging about all the pussy he got as a zygote.
johnebravo836
Odious wrote:
[snip]
> Pretty soon he'll be bragging about all the pussy he got as a zygote.
Hey, c'mon -- he spent 9 consecutive months *buried deep inside* a pussy
-- that makes him an authority right there. ;)
tjj
>>>I was out "in the field" for years before many "community" guys were even
>>>BORN. Not only that, but I grew up in NYC with the world's best nightlife
>>>literally next door to me and was able to experience it since age 15.
>>
>> And all you got out of it was ya abusive's mommie's BF of the hour beating
>> you up while she cheered him on. 15 in nite clubs? Against the law,
>> loser.
>>
>Naaa. he's lying. He's painted himself into a corner regarding the
>timeline of his life.
>We know when he declared bankruptcy and we know he's spent the better part
>of almost every day on usenet or trying to sue somebody for about the last
>10 to 12 years. Which means the window for what point in his life he wasn't
>a total loser is getting smaller and smaller.
>He has to go back more and more to try and claim that he wasn't a loser for
>some period in his life.
>Pretty soon he'll be bragging about all the pussy he got as a zygote.
Well, the court will have cut him some slack, as now he has
to deal with people who can count, who know the records, and
can prove it by his own words. He can spew dates/times/whatever
yet can't out-run his big mouth and/or time and space.
Like shooting fish in a teacup, he has to fail..without excuse..
JJT
BUT HEY, here's an oldie but moldie:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIA
GORDON ROY PARKER, : CIVIL ACTION
a/k/a RAY GORDON, :
Plaintiff, :
:
v. :
:
JOHN DOE #1, a/k/a :
"WINTERMUTE," and :
JOHN DOES #2-100, :
Defendants. : No. 02-CV-7215
ORDER
AND NOW, this 25th day of February 2003, upon consideration
of Plaintiff Gordon Roy Parker's, a/k/a Ray Gordon ("Plaintiff")
continued and inexcusable failure to serve any defendants,
including those defendants identified by Plaintiff, in the
abovementioned case, despite this Court's several admonitions
to do so and extensions of time to effectuate service, we conclude
that Plaintiff has failed to comply with this Court's January 22,
2003 letter ordering him to file proof of service of process by
February 12, 2003. Since Plaintiff does not present an adequate
reason for his inability to serve these defendants within the
additional time this Court extended him, it is ORDERED that
pursuant to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 4(m), Plaintiff's
case is DISMISSED...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Teddybear
back in the early 80s both in the club scene and with those of us that have
been doing pickups since the 60s. Ray did not coin the term he just heard
it somewhere, also the term pivot was in common usage in the late 60's.
Originally it refered to the one in the middle when a joint was passed back
and forth, but the term was also applied to the odd person in a threesom,
and many other things. I have been using both terms for years, and long
before Ray ever stuck his head up out of the swamp.
Perhaps I'm a member of the "old guard", but none of this stuff is new,
because there is nothing much new in human relations. This all goes by to
the original pickup line, "Hi, my name is *******, what's your name?" 99%
of the time you get a name, sometimes a blush, and always it's an
icebreaker. Better have your retort ready in case she is one of the 1% that
gets flustered and is rude. Those end up in your bed 90% of the time if you
are quick thinking and neg them right. Guys have been picking up girls
since long before any of us were born. The only thing new in the world that
I can see is NLP, the rest is just new bents on old things. But whatever
works is a good thing. And what works for me, won't necessarily work for
others.
"Odious" <Odi...@cox.net.nospam> wrote in message
news:3%R%f.8992$EA3.1178@dukeread10...
*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
Odious
As I've said Ted, when I give dates for the ideas being referenced... I'm
not claiming that was the first time they were ever mentioned or used. I
simply cite them to demonstrate the ideas were in use prior to gordo
claiming to have invented them and introduced them to ASF.
"Teddybear" <tedd...@splat.net> wrote in message
news:44414e55$0$14389$6d36...@titian.nntpserver.com...
Teddybear
side, and the only thing new I see, is the NLP stuff. Everything else has
been done over the years, but the important thing is what works for the
individual. My method has changed over the years, and of course taking into
account the fact that I'm older now, and believe it or not, don't have to
work nearly as hard.
By the time they find out I'm not harmless, it's too late....LOL
"Odious" <Odi...@cox.net.nospam> wrote in message
news:EYw0g.25148$EA3.12992@dukeread10...