Liberal Fascists Targeting Religious Broadcasters
obamao.sux....@gmail.com
airways will strike hardest at religious broadcasters who stand in the
way of a liberal social revolution.
Christian broadcasters tell HUMAN EVENTS they will be targeted once
President Obama's appointees gain control of the Federal
Communications Commission (FCC) this year.
"The Left Wing, I think, will immediately start filing complaints, and
it will in short order shut Christian broadcasting down," says Warren
Kelley, president of "Point of View," the first Christian talk show to
go on the air via satellite 37 years ago. "I think it will so limit
what they say that, in essence, they will cease to be Christian
broadcasters."
A number of prominent congressional Democrats, among them House
Speaker Nancy Pelosi, want the FCC to bring back the so-called
Fairness Doctrine. Until its abolishment by President Ronald Reagan,
the doctrine gave the five-member FCC the right to demand that
broadcasters present contrasting views or risk losing their broadcast
license.
What is even more troubling to Christian talk show hosts is a left-
wing movement to use regulatory boards like the FCC to cancel
broadcast licenses and to stamp out free speech altogether. Such
government power is already being exerted in Europe and Canada, where
those at the microphone cannot criticize Islam or homosexuality
without risking a blackout.
"Our founders believed the most important liberty was religious
liberty," says Frank Pastore, whom some have dubbed the "Christian
Rush Limbaugh" for his daily radio talk show in Los Angeles. "They
enshrined that belief in the First Amendment. And now that religious
liberty is threatened. We need to just look at Canada and Europe and
see what liberals have in mind. I don't want to be France. I don't
want to be Canada. I want to continue to be America."
Says Bruce Fein, the FCC general counsel during the Reagan
administration, "The whole purpose of the Fairness Doctrine is to
force contrasting views even if it violates the broadcaster's
scruples. The overall objective is to try to make it sufficiently
expensive, so it isn't worth it so I'll say nothing at all. The
alternative is not to have more views but to have fewer."
History tells Pastore and his colleagues they have has good reason to
be concerned. Religious broadcasters were the most targeted during the
Kennedy-Johnson administration. In perhaps the most infamous case --
the FCC crackdown on Christian fundamentalist Carl McIntire and his
radio station, WXUR -- the commission leveled a series of complaints
for McIntire not presenting "contrasting views." Finally, it refused
to renew his license. McIntire, big on Christian values and anti-
communism, was off the air in 1973.
Perhaps coincidentally, Christian broadcasting has grown since the
Fairness Doctrine went away, producing some of the great conservative
voices. Men like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and James Dobson became
a major pillar within the Republican Party. Their flocks help elect a
Republican Congress in 1994 and George W. Bush in 2000.
Their association, the National Religious Broadcasters, meets in
Nashville's Opryland this weekend for an annual convention, just as
Democrats in Congress mull how to bring back a doctrine that would
stifle the family values message.
The convention features a panel of lawyers and broadcasters discussing
possible threats from the new Obama administration.
"Will hate crimes and the Fairness Doctrine now threaten the
broadcasting landscape?" the convention program states. "Where can you
expect attacks on your religious programming content. What is the
prospect for religious liberties in America.?"
One panel speaker is the host of "Janet Parshall's America," a daily
popular show on the Salem Radio Network. Some congressional Democrats
have talked of specifically targeting Salem and its 95 radio stations
by challenging its license renewals. In all, there are over 2,000
Christian radio stations in America and 100 TV stations.
"What we want to do is tell the message of Jesus," Parshalls tells
HUMAN EVENTS. "What the Fairness Doctrine would have us do is give
equal time to Buddha, Allah and [scientologist] L. Ron Hubbard."
Indeed, the issues the conventioneers tackle especially rankle the
Left. Christian broadcasters oppose same-sex marriage, abortion,
rampant illegitimacy, teen pregnancy, strict teaching of evolution and
the liberal secular movement. They promote marriage, home schooling,
prayer in school and homosexual-to-heterosexual conversion.
"These are things that would make religious broadcasters prime
targets," Fein said.
When voters in California last November approved Proposition 8, which
defines marriage as between a man and woman, religious broadcasters
may have made the difference.
"We were a large mouth piece that kept the base informed," Pastore
says.
The party holding the White House enjoys a 3-2 commission majority,
meaning the Obama FCC merely has to draw up a new Fairness Doctrine
and vote to institute it.
The Dallas-based "Point of View" is an example of a talk show that
uses the Christian world view to discuss public policy issues. A
second category of Christian broadcasting is the pastor who goes on
the air to preach the Gospel.
For both, the Fairness Doctrine "is going to have a chilling affect,"
Kelley tells HUMAN EVENTS.
The process would work this way: a Muslim group such as the Council on
American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) or a homosexual rights group such as
the American Civil Liberties Union would file a complaint with the FCC
because, for example, "Point of View" did not provide a contrasting
view.
This would spur a formal FCC investigation involving the 370 radio
stations who relay the show to an estimated two million listeners. The
commission would be empowered to force the station to present pro-gay
rights programing or lose its license. Some stations might opt to
cancel the show to avoid the controversy -- and the legal expense.
"For the teaching ministry in today's culture I think they will be
dramatically affected," Kelley says. "If you have a pastor who talks
of salvation through Jesus, then Muslim clerics will want equal time
and to force Christian broadcasters to provide time to competing world
views and religions."
"If 'Point of View' does a program that deals with the problems of
homosexuality, then any station that carries us would be forced to
give air time to homosexuals, and I think that most broadcasters,
rather than being forced into that situation, would restrict their
broadcasters in the content they would put on the air."
Pastore has doubts the Democrats and Obama will be so blatant. He
believes a Democratic-controlled FCC will turn to the concept of
"localism" to hamstring Christian broadcasters and deny license
renewals.
"We are going to take back the airways and give it back to local
ownership," is the way the Left will begin the movement, Pastore says.
Under Pastore's scenario, liberal groups will organize against certain
broadcasters under the premise that the public airways should devote
more time to local issues of importance. They then file complaints
against radio stations across the country. The FCC interprets these
complaints as a public outcry and establishes rules requiring stations
to devote more time to pressing local issues. The end result: talk
show hosts such as Pastore must relinquish air time.
"Lets get a Christian host saying something that a gay listener is
offended by," explains Pastore. "Just say that's wrong. He complaints.
You have rally cry on the Left. this will set up the case for
localism. Barack comes on and says, 'I can hear the voices of the
people.'"
Parshalls believes the FCC itself will set up panels across the
country to monitor talk shows and report to Washington that station X
if violating "localism" and needs new ownership.
"So you dilute, dilute, dilute the message of the Gospel until there
is no Gospel message left," Parshalls says. "What they want to do is
have us sell all kinds of good [but] we believe them to be false
except the Gospel of Jesus Christ."
traveler
> Democratic plans to revive government censorship of the radio and TV
> airways will strike hardest at religious broadcasters who stand in the
> way of a liberal social revolution.
Such nonsense! I live in an area where we get nothing BUT rightwing
talk radio every day, ALL DAY LONG. I've complained to the single
talk radio station's owner several times and he always hands me a load
of bull about how these shows are the only ones he can get. We hear
G. Gordon Liddy, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, and Lars Larson. Each
of these guys are always on about the slightest progressive notion
being tantamount to high treason. As a result, the people in my area
are almost exclusively highschool educated retired machinists and ex-
military without a clue. They think it's perfectly alright to poison
the hell out of their homes and yards because they don't understand
the slightest thing about the environment and don't want to know.
They think only stupid people go to college or would want to go to
college. This is what these morons have done to this country,
propagandizing an already mentally challenged populace into believing
that being dumb and ignorant is a quality rather than a major drawback
to proper citizenship. And you actually think making a first attempt
at correcting this appalling situation is a problem? Nobody cares
about the religious stations. What we care about is social and
political discussion where only the far rightwing perspective is
presented as absolute truth. Enough! These stations are supposed to
be run in the public interest, not in the Republican interest. They
must obtain licenses to broadcast. It is NOT strictly free enterprise
at stake here but the public's right to know what is going on in the
world both inside and outside the local community.
RHF
- the public's right to know what is going on in the
- world both inside and outside the local community.
What About The 'Choice' Of The Public Not To Know :
i know what 'i' know and 'i' need know no more ~ RHF
- - - For I Have Faith and I Believe [.]
-ps- oops that right you just want to force your views
on others and jam your opinion down their throats.
* Scream At Them that There Is No God
* Tell Them That They Have No Political Rights
* Teach Their Children Evolution {Only} and that
their Parents Beliefs are Ignorant {Religious}
.
.
saltyfi...@gmail.com
JA! - HEIL HITLER!
Telamon
<6fae6631-1904-49f5...@r10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
traveler <Vall...@aol.com> wrote:
Excellent propaganda. I think there is a future position on the FCC
commission for you.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
RHF
wrote:
> In article
> <6fae6631-1904-49f5-94fe-51a1eabc9...@r10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
- - world both inside and outside the local community.
- Excellent propaganda.
- I think there is a future position
- on the FCC commission for you.
-
- --
- Telamon
- Ventura, California
The "Traveler" would appear to be a 'fellow traveler'.
.
Steve Hayes
Had a drink for dry water recently?
--
Terms and conditions apply.
Steve Hayes
haye...@hotmail.com
dave
>
> Parshalls believes the FCC itself will set up panels across the
> country to monitor talk shows and report to Washington that station X
> if violating "localism" and needs new ownership.
>
I favor a rule prohibiting translators and LPFMs from being fed by any
means other than direct off-air pickup.
As far as the insane content on religious stations; that's beyond the
scope of government to correct.
dave
Ownership limits need to come way down. No company should be allowed to
own more than 24 stations. Bill Clinton really fucked-up when he
deregged broadcasting.
Brenda Ann
"dave" <da...@dave.dave> wrote in message
news:CamdnQcUGsWiqw3U...@earthlink.com...
> obamao.sux....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I favor a rule prohibiting translators and LPFMs from being fed by any
> means other than direct off-air pickup.
LPFM's are supposed to be local origination only. That was the entire point
of their creation.
Berkeley Bolshevik
Want to know what is going on in the world both inside and outside the
local community? Don't be a cheapskate and buy a newspaper. The radio
hosts you mentioned aren't news reporters, they're commentators. So
you won't get the latest breaking news from them. Want unbiased news?
Try (tic) NPR or PBS. If have this need for radio, get satellite
radio. Your choices are endless. You're online, discover all the web
sites available. You are only limited by yourself.
You have so many choices where to get your news, your bitching and
moaning is rather comical.
Berkeley Bolshevik
Commissions on the Obama administration are so old school. He is more
likely have a Ministry of Newspeak.
dave
>
> Want to know what is going on in the world both inside and outside the
> local community? Don't be a cheapskate and buy a newspaper. The radio
> hosts you mentioned aren't news reporters, they're commentators. So
> you won't get the latest breaking news from them. Want unbiased news?
> Try (tic) NPR or PBS. If have this need for radio, get satellite
> radio. Your choices are endless. You're online, discover all the web
> sites available. You are only limited by yourself.
>
> You have so many choices where to get your news, your bitching and
> moaning is rather comical.
The issue is the commons and whether one point of view dominates the
public airwaves to the detriment of others. Many people listen to
Limpballs by default, as he is on the only station they can pick up at
work, etc. How much right-wing talk is available in Dallas? How much
progressive?
dave
>
> Commissions on the Obama administration are so old school. He is more
> likely have a Ministry of Newspeak.
You are inadvertently shooting yourself in the foot.
RHF
> Berkeley Bolshevik wrote:
>
> > Commissions on the Obama administration are so old school. He is more
> > likely have a Ministry of Newspeak.
- You are inadvertently shooting yourself in the foot.
Dave as long it is your foot. ;-} ~ RHF
.
RHF
wrote:
- You are only limited by yourself.
Dave's 'self' is a great limiting factor.
- You have so many choices where to get
- your news, your bitching and moaning is
- rather comical.
Dave is after all Comic Disbelief ! ~ RHF
.
obamao.sux....@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
24! So many? Why not just 1,2, or 3? Why let anyone "own" a
broadcast station? Broadcast stations should all be government owned
and operated.
Heck, why not just farm out the entire "Progressive" brainwashing
propaganda lieing machine to Beijing, Tehran, Moscow and London? The
highest bidder! They'll be happy to run it entirely under their own
budget and we get "Progressive" G-A-R-B-A-G-E 24 x 7 for free.
Yeah, nothing but Huffington all day and all night. Democracy Now
everyday of the year.
JA !! HEIL HITLER!!!
RHF
What 'market' for Left-Wing-a-Ding-a-Ling
Talk Radio is their in Dallas, TX to begin
with ? ? ? : That NPR {PBS} do not satisfy
and fill the need of Liberal Radio Listeners ?
* "Air-America" Failed because they were trying
to compete with for Left-Wing {Liberal} Radio
Listeners who were already NPR {PBS} Radio
Listeners and very Loyal to the NPR {PBS}
Brand.
* Nation-Wide the NPR {PBS} Brand has over
2400 Radio Stations; while Limbaugh and Hannity
can only manage to get on about 500 Radio
Stations : That Better Than 4-to-1 in the the
NPR {PBS} Brand's favor.
* 23 Texas NPR Member Radio Stations
http://www.infoplease.com/ipea/A0758937.html
http://www.tpr.org/
That a pretty good 'network' to counter-balance
Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, Beck, etc and paid
for by my Tax Dollars.
* For that matter why aren't my Tax Dollars
helping to support true fairness on the Radio
and requiring NPR [PBS] to carry 33% of it's
Programming to reflect the Conservative Voice
since they are 100% Left-Wing {Liberal} with
some Moderates to do the "Me Too" act with
them in the name of so-called 'liberal' truth.
yes i said that ~ RHF
.
RHF
- - obamao.sux.donki.dix...@gmail.com wrote:
- - Parshalls believes the FCC itself will set up
- - panels across the country to monitor talk shows
- - and report to Washington that station X if violating
- - "localism" and needs new ownership.
OSDD,
Gee that would eliminate most NPR [PBS]
Radio Stations : When Do We Take Over
The 2400 Non-Local NPR Radio Stations
and fill them with the Voice of Our Local
Liberals and in all 'fairness' Conservatives.
- I favor a rule prohibiting translators and LPFMs
- from being fed by any means other than direct
- off-air pickup.
Dave,
So Over-the-Hills and into the Valleys means
that the People in the far-a-way Valleys or
behind the Hills don't get to Listen to the Radio
Station of their 'choice'.
it boggles the mind ~ RHF
- As far as the insane content on religious
- stations; that's beyond the scope of
- government to correct.
Dave -proclaims- That There Is Insane Content
On Religious Radio Stations !
Dave - Many/Most of the 'insane-content' thinkers
will try and have a Nice Thought For You. ~ RHF
.
.
RHF
> "dave" <d...@dave.dave> wrote in message
>
> news:CamdnQcUGsWiqw3U...@earthlink.com...
>
> > obamao.sux.donki.dix...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I favor a rule prohibiting translators and LPFMs from being fed by any
> > means other than direct off-air pickup.
- LPFM's are supposed to be local origination only.
- That was the entire point of their creation.
ROTFL oaoa ~ RHF
.
Telamon
Berkeley Bolshevik <Worke...@MickeyMarx.com> wrote:
Did you hear today's obomination speech? Now that was some fine Newspeak.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Telamon
dave <da...@dave.dave> wrote:
The obomination shot both his feet off today.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
Brenda Ann
<obamao.sux....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:12930468-539a-4ac8...@p36g2000prp.googlegroups.com...
> Ownership limits need to come way down. No company should be allowed to
> own more than 24 stations. Bill Clinton really fucked-up when he
> deregged broadcasting.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
24! So many? Why not just 1,2, or 3? Why let anyone "own" a
broadcast station? Broadcast stations should all be government owned
and operated.
Heck, why not just farm out the entire "Progressive" brainwashing
propaganda lieing machine to Beijing, Tehran, Moscow and London? The
highest bidder! They'll be happy to run it entirely under their own
budget and we get "Progressive" G-A-R-B-A-G-E 24 x 7 for free.
Yeah, nothing but Huffington all day and all night. Democracy Now
everyday of the year.
Hitler was a right winger.
As far as station ownership, corporate ownership was never a good idea.
There were originally limits on the number of stations a network could own
outright (5, IIRC). Deregulation was a bad thing that led to
megacorporations owning hundreds of stations (thousands in some cases). Some
cities have more than 30 stations, all or nearly all owned by just 2 or 3
corporations.
traveler
> > be run in the public interest, not in the Republican interest. They
> > must obtain licenses to broadcast. It is NOT strictly free enterprise
> > at stake here but
>
> - the public's right to know what is going on in the
> - world both inside and outside the local community.
>
> What About The 'Choice' Of The Public Not To Know :
Simple. Those who want to believe patent nonsense can listen to their
favorite dipshit programming. Those who wish to be informed will have
the opportunity to listen to programming designed for people with good
minds and a good education. Both types of programming will be
available, not just one, as is the case in many areas today.
> i know what 'i' know and 'i' need know no more ~ RHF
> - - - For I Have Faith and I Believe [.]
If God had intended for you to be an ignorant moron, he wouldn't have
given you a brain, let alone the free will to use it.
>
> -ps- oops that right you just want to force your views
> on others and jam your opinion down their throats.
No, that's YOUR bag, not mine.
> * Scream At Them that There Is No God
You're talking to the wrong fellow. If there truly is a God, as I
believe most of the time, he's just as close to me and my life as he
is to yours. In fact, for all you know, I may be closer to God than
you are.
> * Tell Them That They Have No Political Rights
> * Teach Their Children Evolution {Only}
Wrong again. The kids around here don't even know what evolution is,
anymore than you do. All they understand is creationism that they get
in church and they don't even have to take Biology in school, which
the vast majority of them know nothing about. In fact, I just
listened to a degreed student preparing for medical school tell me
that she thinks Biology is "a bunch of bullshit." She said it
conflicted with her Christian religion. I asked her how she intended
to get through medical school if she doesn't understand Biology and
she responded that she is able to "cram" the information at will
without liking it or understanding it. That doesn't sound like a
plausible plan to me. As I told her, the Theory of Evolution is only
a model for the origin and diversity of life. It never was intended
to be taken as absolute fact and anyone who thinks it was or is is
misguided and mistaken. Nevertheless, it's a good model, the best one
we've come up with so far. Problems arise when people obsess on it
and act as if it is absolute fact when it is merely a well tested
theory. Oddly, religious people such as yourself continually make the
mistake of believing that biologists consider natural selection to be
a fact, when in reality, it is merely a a set of carefully considered
and vigorously tested assumptions that are in accord with the vast
majority of our observations of the living world but that someday will
no doubt be amended or discarded for a more accurate model.
and that
> their Parents Beliefs are Ignorant {Religious
You said it
traveler
Your hero?
traveler
Thanks, but I'm not holding my breath. And it's not propaganda. It's
the truth. Living in liberal Southern California, you don't
understand what goes down in isolated parts of Arizona.
traveler
wrote:
Thanks but I'm well read and don't need your advice. The folks who
live around me certainly do, however, and they are not well-served by
the media, the local paper, or dipshits who sound like you.
The radio
> hosts you mentioned aren't news reporters, they're commentators.
You don't say. Golly gee, I didn't know that.
So
> you won't get the latest breaking news from them. Want unbiased news?
> Try (tic) NPR or PBS.
You think NPR is "unbiased?" Ha ha ha.
If have this need for radio, get satellite
> radio.
I don't have a "need for radio," dip, but when I turn it on, I'd like
to have some choice of what to hear rather than all the same bullshit
all day and all night long.
Your choices are endless. You're online, discover all the web
> sites available. You are only limited by yourself.
Jesus, talk about a condescending asshole who thoroughly misses the
point. Thanks for the advice, Jr. I'll be certain to "explore the
web" just cuz you said so. Try reading a few books, pard. That's
what I do.
>
> You have so many choices where to get your news, your bitching and
> moaning is rather comical.
Far less comical than your pathetically condescending load of
bullshit, but I'm sure you mean well.
dave
> <obamao.sux....@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:12930468-539a-4ac8...@p36g2000prp.googlegroups.com...
>> Ownership limits need to come way down. No company should be allowed to
>> own more than 24 stations. Bill Clinton really fucked-up when he
>> deregged broadcasting.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> 24! So many? Why not just 1,2, or 3? Why let anyone "own" a
> broadcast station? Broadcast stations should all be government owned
> and operated.
> Heck, why not just farm out the entire "Progressive" brainwashing
> propaganda lieing machine to Beijing, Tehran, Moscow and London? The
> highest bidder! They'll be happy to run it entirely under their own
> budget and we get "Progressive" G-A-R-B-A-G-E 24 x 7 for free.
Crazy eccentric millionaires should each own a handful of stations, like
it used to be.
Being a small L libertarian, I like to hear from all points of view. I
believe the Liberal side of things deserves as much exposure as the
Conservative, so I can have the info needed to intelligently decide
where I stand. The Right Wing Noise Machine philosophy of Citadel and
Clear Channel is to aggresively promote the politics that best pad their
coffers and to give minimal exposure to populist and/or progressive
ideas. Democracy suffers.
dave
>
> You think NPR is "unbiased?" Ha ha ha.
>
"...facts have a Liberal bias."
Telamon
dave <da...@dave.dave> wrote:
It's because of the principle of entropy where unless intelligence and
energy is applied to organizing matter it descends into the chaos of the
liberal mindset.
I'm impressed that David has picked up on that principle.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California
2/9/2009 The obominator spoke thusly to the amusement of all "Only government can save the economy"
M Peraaho
Pastors and Preachers who use the radio to reach the masses are a special
breed of human being. Piously convicted and yet very often, marginally
informed, they use the airwaves to invade the mind and draw others unto
mostly themselves. Radio preaching, or shall we just say, preaching is one
of the only places where a normal human being can loose his mind, act out
and both speak and reason in ways that would get him or her kicked out of
every other work environment in the world.
The radio preacher is on his own. He can say and do and express himself in
just about any way he chooses and we are all conditioned to tolerate the
sincere, no doubt we can hope, foolishness that assaults our senses and at
times, tickles our funny bones.
Recently a radio preacher informed his audience the reason Bathsheba, who
seduced horney King David, was named thus was because she was taking a
"Bath." Argh, Argh and Half and Argh! I wrote and asked if she had been
taking a shower, would we then call her "ShowerSheba." No response.
Also recently, I listened to a very astute, yep probably one of the most
scientifically ignorant men on the radio, make a sincere effort to convince
the audience that the story of Jonah surviving three days and three nights
in the great fish, while he got to consider whether he wanted to obey God
and become fish vomit, or disobey and become fish poop, was literally true.
It's not literally true. My sense of being swallowed by a large ocean going
predator would end in being suffocated or drown relatively soon after and
digested beyond repair rather soon after that. Pinocchio sitting on a three
legged stool at a small fire in the belly of the whale waiting for a
solution to the dilemma just seems contrived, yet also seems to have
captured the imaginations of preachers.
He cited the amazing story of a sailor named James Bartley who was swallowed
by a sperm whale off the Falkland Islands. About thirty-six hours later his
fellow sailors found him, unconscious but alive, inside the belly of the
animal. The story is bogus. It never happened and ranks as one of America's
earliest urban legends. However, in the world of radio preaching, emotional
convictions, and men who refuse to do their homework first, this pastor once
again used it to convince others of a literalism in the Bible that was never
meant to be taken as such. Ministers in general, like the writers of the New
Testament, are adept at making a scripture mean what it never meant. What
would never work in a college term paper, works just fine in many religious
writings. They called it Midrash. A critical thinker would call it dishonest
and misleading.
At any rate, I sent the information on the urban legend nature of his story
to the pastor because I just knew he'd want to know. Wrong.... After a brief
comment about him noticing an Obama ad on the article which right there
seemed to give him an out, and that the material was obviously from the
"secular web", he simply said he'd check it out but didn't like my attitude.
I'm pretty sure he'll find the confirmation for his view on the "religious
web," but I had done my part.
Radio preachers LOVE the Book of Revelation! Well they all do actually. Now
there is a money maker for them if ever there was one. Full of Vials,
Plagues, Trumpets and Trombones, it can easily be updated to fit the times
that anyone lives in. It is easy to filter out the words "to show unto my
servants (2000 years ago) the things which must SHORTLY come to pass," along
with an ending that assures the reader, "behold I come QUICKLY."
Preachers, (or was it the writers of scripture?) learned long ago that fear,
guilt and shame sell and certainly motivate and control. You can grow a
church well in the manure of hard times and fear mongering. Our day and age
is the perfect time to start your own church or grow a complacent one.
However, pious conviction, as I said, coupled with marginal information and
spread with raw emotion and threats of eternal judgement is also a great way
to breed down the road disillusionment and anger.
We can over look the fact that the Book of Revelation is an already failed
early Jewish Christian rant against the great Beast of the Roman occupiers
of Jerusalem in the early first century. Perhaps between January and
September of 70 AD to be exact. We can ignore that the False prophet against
whom these rabid Jewish Christians were raging against may well have been
the New Testament's star performer, and ardent foe of Jewish Christians, the
Apostle Paul.
It is Paul that wretched the Jewish Jesus out of all their hands and twisted
him into a Cosmic, somewhat Pagan Christ. It was Paul, most likely that
Jesus was praising the Ephesian Church in the Revelation, for taking to
task, as an Apostle of Jesus and found him wanting. After all, Paul lamented
that "all in Asia had forsaken him," and Ephesus, a Church Paul said he was
an Apostle to, is in Asia. As with most Apostles, Priests and Kings, Paul
was able to blame them for the problem and not himself. It never seems to
dawn on some that when "everyone" forsakes you, it might not be the
"everyone else" that has the problem.
The Religion of the Occident by Larson sums up the failed nature of the Book
of Revelation about as well as anyone could.
"Revelation was the swan song of Militant Jewish Christianity. When
Jerusalem was destroyed, when Rome waxed greater and more powerful, when the
False Prophet (The Apostle Paul to Jewish Christians and the one found
wanting in the letter to Ephesian Church in Revelation) gained more and more
followers, when the book itself was proved totally false within two years ,
when it became evident that the Jewish messiah-Christ would not come, the
Hebrew Christians lost their virility and their cult faded under the
combined assault of orthodox Judaism and of Gentile Christianity." (Religion
of the Occident. Larson. Page 479.)
This information about the nature, origin and ultimate failure of the Book
of Revelation to come to pass as it was meant to, due to the unexpected and
utter destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in the Fall of 70 AD is too
hot to handle for those so inclined to read the book, to this day as a
newspaper. One will not hear that the Book of Revelation is a failed first
century Jewish Christian rant against the Apostle Paul and his Gentile and
pagan views of Jesus, the Cosmic Christ, , who he never personally met in
his life, ever quoted in his writings or spoke of any real life events of
any earthly Jesus that died just a few years earlier in his hometown.
With Paul being such an ardent persecutor, as Saul, of "that way," we can
hardly imagine this Pharisee of the Pharisees would pass up a shot at
confronting the real Jesus in his own city. However, the Gospels never heard
of any Saul the Pharisee evidently.
The Jesus of Revelation, not to be confused with the Jesus of the Gospels,
summed it up rather nicely in the Letter to the Ephesian Church found in
Revelation.
Paul to the Ephesians: "I am an apostle of Jesus"
The Ephesians to Paul: "No you're not."
Jesus to the Ephesians Church in Revelation: "Well done!"
Today, whether through religion screamed, yelled, panted, wheezed or shouted
over the airwaves, or in the fundamentalist pulpits every week across the
planet, ignorance is promoted. Pious conviction with marginal information.
I'm speaking of those who feel they have the right to tell everyone how it
all is and yet have little background in the very book they claim to know so
well.
Many are mere Bible readers and able to tell the stories and proclaim their
truths very well. The how and why of Bible story origins escapes them or
does not fit into their own paradigm of what it is all about, however. This
ignorance hurts others in the long run. Actually it can hurt in the short
term as well!
Take Judaism, Islam and Christianity out of the news and world peace would
break out tomorrow. From the most silly and entertaining antics of ministers
and lone spiritual masters, to the most hideous and bizarre beliefs, demands
and practices of those who follow, religion is a long way from making human
beings better for it all. Christian soldiers just have to stop that
"marching as to war" stuff.
Religion is what others pour into your head and usually requires one to be
at certain places at certain times, hold a group belief, marginalize, attack
or kill those that don't hold that belief and, of course, give ten percent
of your income to the proper Deity. Spirituality however, is an inside job.
It requires no one yelling at your from either your radio or pulpit to bring
you inner contentment and peace. It has no demand that you show up somewhere
once or twice a week to show you are on track with the group, and it
certainly does not ask you for your money so the guy who gave you the
information can buy a big house, new car or Rolex, so he can do "the work of
God."
When assaulted by the fear, guilt and shame of radio preaching or even that
from the pulpit, always ask if this pious conviction, for which we can't
fault anyone, mixed with marginal information is true. Is it correct? Am I
being given proper information on which I am supposed to make lasting
decisions in my life? We have never lived in a time where checking out that
which is meant to motivate us to adopt the views of others can be so readily
checked out and other explanations considered. Frankly, the Internet is the
bane of most fundamentalist preachers and any 15 year old in the
congregation with a computer can give the Pastor hell over the views he
affirms are literally true and just how the Deity sees it all too. A local
fundamentalist college just down the stree here in Greenville, SC only
allows select Internet access on the college system. Looking outside the
Internet box will get you in big trouble. Sad isn't it?
Remember, if someone endeavors to convince you about the truth of Jonah by
being piously convicted that the story of Jonah just has to be literally
true, yet does it by promoting a false tale using marginal information, you
might have to ask what else in this story each week may be suspect.
Pious conviction with marginal information is not our friend.
Pete Smith
> - world both inside and outside the local community.
>
> What About The 'Choice' Of The Public Not To Know :
>
Why doesn't this "God" you speak of do something about it? Or is he
no longer returning your calls because he never existed in the first
place.
RHF
> These stations are supposed to
>
> > > be run in the public interest, not in the Republican interest. They
> > > must obtain licenses to broadcast. It is NOT strictly free enterprise
> > > at stake here but
>
> > - the public's right to know what is going on in the
> > - world both inside and outside the local community.
>
> > What About The 'Choice' Of The Public Not To Know :
- Simple. Those who want to believe patent
- nonsense can listen to their favorite dipshit
- programming.
Rush, Sean, Bill, etc are only on 500 Radio Stations
- Those who wish to be informed will have the
- opportunity to listen to programming designed
- for people with good minds and a good education.
2400 NPR Radio Stations already exist.
- Both types of programming will be available,
Both Types of Programming Are Already Available,
With Conservative Programming on 500 AM Talk
Radio Stations -and- Liberal Programming on
2400 FM Public Radio Stations.
- not just one, as is the case in many areas today.
Yeah 2400 to 500 is better than Four-to-One [4-to-1]
Which is really Weighted in Favor of the Liberals
and supported by my Tax Money.
> > i know what 'i' know and 'i' need know no more ~ RHF
> > - - - For I Have Faith and I Believe [.]
- If God had intended for you to be an
- ignorant moron, he wouldn't have given
- you a brain, let alone the free will to use it.
- - - = = = RHF's Canned Reply 'Rant' = = = - - -
[>: To Liberal Name Calling :<]
ROTFL - You Know When You Are Winning An Argument :
When a Super-Smart 'Enlightened" Liberal Starts Name Calling*.
* They Lose Their Ability To Think And Get Emotional - rotfl ~ RHF
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/318979fbe8546cfa
.
>
>
> > -ps- oops that right you just want to force your views
> > on others and jam your opinion down their throats.
>
> No, that's YOUR bag, not mine.
>
> > * Scream At Them that There Is No God
>
> You're talking to the wrong fellow. If there truly is a God, as I
> believe most of the time, he's just as close to me and my life as he
> is to yours. In fact, for all you know,
- I may be closer to God than you are.
Hopefully in "Spirit" and not in 'Body'
enjoy a long life and prosperity ~ RHF
> > * Tell Them That They Have No Political Rights
> > * Teach Their Children Evolution {Only}
>
> Wrong again. The kids around here don't even know what evolution is,
> anymore than you do. All they understand is creationism that they get
> in church and they don't even have to take Biology in school, which
> the vast majority of them know nothing about.
- In fact, I just listened to a degreed student
- preparing for medical school tell me that she
- thinks Biology is "a bunch of bullshit."
D'Oh ! - How does she explain being here ?
humm... med-skol and bio-log-gee
- She said it conflicted with her Christian religion.
- I asked her how she intended to get through
- medical school if she doesn't understand Biology
- and she responded that she is able to "cram"
- the information at will without liking it or
- understanding it. That doesn't sound like a
- plausible plan to me.
What Works for Her Works for Her as it has
taken her this far . . . so far.
- As I told her, the Theory of Evolution is only
- a model for the origin and diversity of life.
? Theory ? - To Some/Many/Most It Is Proven
Science and Thus Everything Else is Myth.
- It never was intended to be taken as absolute fact
- and anyone who thinks it was or is is misguided
and mistaken.
Misguided - To Some/Many/Most It Is Proven
Science and Thus Everything Else is Mistaken.
Mistaken - To Some/Many/Most It Is Proven
Science and Thus Everything Else is Misguided.
- Nevertheless, it's a good model, the best one
- we've come up with so far. Problems arise
- when people obsess on it and act as if it is
- absolute fact when it is merely a well tested
- theory.
Absolute Fact - To Some/Many/Most It Is Proven
Science and Thus Everything Else is Foolishness.
- Oddly, religious people such as yourself continually
- make the mistake of believing that biologists consider
- natural selection to be a fact, when in reality, it is
- merely a a set of carefully considered and vigorously
- tested assumptions that are in accord with the vast
- majority of our observations of the living world but
- that someday will no doubt be amended or discarded
- for a more accurate model.
Assumptions - To Some/Many/Most It Is Proven
Science and Thus Everything Else is for Asses.
> > and that their Parents Beliefs are Ignorant {Religious}
- You said it
Justr parroting the words of the true Believer's in
Evolutionary "Scientism" -wrt- The Beliefs of the
Parents of their Students as being Ignorant and
Religious. ~ RHF
.
.
traveler
It would be nice if NPR stuck to the facts but their liberal bias is
obvious. Of course, compared to Sean Hannity, Lars Larson, G. Gordon
Liddy, or Bill O'Reilly, they are a fount of intellectual honesty.
traveler
> http://ezinearticles.com/?Pious-Conviction-With-Marginal-Information-...
>
> Pastors and Preachers who use the radio to reach the masses are a special
> breed of human being. Piously convicted and yet very often, marginally
> informed, they use the airwaves to invade the mind and draw others unto
> mostly themselves. Radio preaching, or shall we just say, preaching is one
> of the only places where a normal human being can loose his mind, act out
> and both speak and reason in ways that would get him or her kicked out of
> every other work environment in the world.
>
> The radio preacher is on his own. He can say and do and express himself in
> just about any way he chooses and we are all conditioned to tolerate the
> sincere, no doubt we can hope, foolishness that assaults our senses and at
> times, tickles our funny bones.
>
> Recently a radio preacher informed his audience the reason Bathsheba, who
> seduced horney King David, was named thus was because she was taking a
> "Bath." Argh, Argh and Half and Argh! I wrote and asked if she had been
> taking a shower, would we then call her "ShowerSheba." No response.
-- I don't think showers had been invented yet. --
> Also recently, I listened to a very astute, yep probably one of the most
> scientifically ignorant men on the radio, make a sincere effort to convince
> the audience that the story of Jonah surviving three days and three nights
> in the great fish, while he got to consider whether he wanted to obey God
> and become fish vomit, or disobey and become fish poop, was literally true.
> It's not literally true. My sense of being swallowed by a large ocean going
> predator would end in being suffocated or drown relatively soon after and
> digested beyond repair rather soon after that. Pinocchio sitting on a three
> legged stool at a small fire in the belly of the whale waiting for a
> solution to the dilemma just seems contrived, yet also seems to have
> captured the imaginations of preachers.
-- That's probably the most obvious example of how silly it is to take
the Bible literally. I also highly doubt that Moses was able to part
the Red Sea as Hollywood has shown it, but hey, I once got high and
watched the waves crash on the shore precisely to the rhythm of the
classical music to which I was listening. I pointed it out to my old
lady and she took one look and ran away. So there IS something going
on that from time to time may suspend the usually accepted physical
laws. On the other hand, I'm one heck of a guy (don't try this at
home). --
>
> He cited the amazing story of a sailor named James Bartley who was swallowed
> by a sperm whale off the Falkland Islands. About thirty-six hours later his
> fellow sailors found him, unconscious but alive, inside the belly of the
> animal. The story is bogus. It never happened and ranks as one of America's
> earliest urban legends. However, in the world of radio preaching, emotional
> convictions, and men who refuse to do their homework first, this pastor once
> again used it to convince others of a literalism in the Bible that was never
> meant to be taken as such. Ministers in general, like the writers of the New
> Testament, are adept at making a scripture mean what it never meant. What
> would never work in a college term paper, works just fine in many religious
> writings. They called it Midrash. A critical thinker would call it dishonest
> and misleading.
-- College term papers are notorious for shoveling half-assed crap.
Bad example. --
(Book of Revelation stuff exised for brevity)
> ... Take Judaism, Islam and Christianity out of the news and world peace would
> break out tomorrow. From the most silly and entertaining antics of ministers
> and lone spiritual masters, to the most hideous and bizarre beliefs, demands
> and practices of those who follow, religion is a long way from making human
> beings better for it all. Christian soldiers just have to stop that
> "marching as to war" stuff.
>
> Religion is what others pour into your head and usually requires one to be
> at certain places at certain times, hold a group belief, marginalize, attack
> or kill those that don't hold that belief and, of course, give ten percent
> of your income to the proper Deity. Spirituality however, is an inside job.
> It requires no one yelling at your from either your radio or pulpit to bring
> you inner contentment and peace. It has no demand that you show up somewhere
> once or twice a week to show you are on track with the group, and it
> certainly does not ask you for your money so the guy who gave you the
> information can buy a big house, new car or Rolex, so he can do "the work of
> God."
Inner contentment and peace through "spirituality." Hmm, sounds like
more religion, pard. Keep on truckin'.
RHF
> traveler wrote:
>
> > You think NPR is "unbiased?" Ha ha ha.
- "...facts have a Liberal bias."
Dave has a 'DaviD' bias.
.
zzbu...@netscape.net
> Democratic plans to revive government censorship of the radio and TV
> airways will strike hardest at religious broadcasters who stand in the
> way of a liberal social revolution.
If idiots like Democrats actually knew how either radio or TV works,
people with
brains wouldn't have built digital, CD, DVD, HDTV, Optical
Computers, Adaptive AI.
GPS Digital Terrain Mapping, Drones, Cruise Missiles, Phalanx,
AUVs,
On-Line Banking, Fiber Optics, Microcomputers, Mini Harddisks,
HDTV,
GPS, parallel processing, Holograms, Holographic Memory, On-Line
Publishing,
Biodiesel, Pv Cell Energy, Cell Phones, Anti-Spam, Post Ford
Batteries,
and Post GM Robotics.
>
> Christian broadcasters tell HUMAN EVENTS they will be targeted once
> President Obama's appointees gain control of the Federal
> Communications Commission (FCC) this year.
>
> "The Left Wing, I think, will immediately start filing complaints, and
> it will in short order shut Christian broadcasting down," says Warren
> Kelley, president of "Point of View," the first Christian talk show to
> go on the air via satellite 37 years ago. "I think it will so limit
> what they say that, in essence, they will cease to be Christian
> broadcasters."
>
> A number of prominent congressional Democrats, among them House
> Speaker Nancy Pelosi, want the FCC to bring back the so-called
> Fairness Doctrine. Until its abolishment by President Ronald Reagan,
> the doctrine gave the five-member FCC the right to demand that
> broadcasters present contrasting views or risk losing their broadcast
> license.
>
> What is even more troubling to Christian talk show hosts is a left-
> wing movement to use regulatory boards like the FCC to cancel
> broadcast licenses and to stamp out free speech altogether. Such
> government power is already being exerted in Europe and Canada, where
> those at the microphone cannot criticize Islam or homosexuality
> without risking a blackout.
>
> "Our founders believed the most important liberty was religious
> liberty," says Frank Pastore, whom some have dubbed the "Christian
> Rush Limbaugh" for his daily radio talk show in Los Angeles. "They
> enshrined that belief in the First Amendment. And now that religious
> liberty is threatened. We need to just look at Canada and Europe and
> see what liberals have in mind. I don't want to be France. I don't
> want to be Canada. I want to continue to be America."
>
> Says Bruce Fein, the FCC general counsel during the Reagan
> administration, "The whole purpose of the Fairness Doctrine is to
> force contrasting views even if it violates the broadcaster's
> scruples. The overall objective is to try to make it sufficiently
> expensive, so it isn't worth it so I'll say nothing at all. The
> alternative is not to have more views but to have fewer."
>
> History tells Pastore and his colleagues they have has good reason to
> be concerned. Religious broadcasters were the most targeted during the
> Kennedy-Johnson administration. In perhaps the most infamous case --
> the FCC crackdown on Christian fundamentalist Carl McIntire and his
> radio station, WXUR -- the commission leveled a series of complaints
> for McIntire not presenting "contrasting views." Finally, it refused
> to renew his license. McIntire, big on Christian values and anti-
> communism, was off the air in 1973.
>
> Perhaps coincidentally, Christian broadcasting has grown since the
> Fairness Doctrine went away, producing some of the great conservative
> voices. Men like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and James Dobson became
> a major pillar within the Republican Party. Their flocks help elect a
> Republican Congress in 1994 and George W. Bush in 2000.
>
> Their association, the National Religious Broadcasters, meets in
> Nashville's Opryland this weekend for an annual convention, just as
> Democrats in Congress mull how to bring back a doctrine that would
> stifle the family values message.
>
> The convention features a panel of lawyers and broadcasters discussing
> possible threats from the new Obama administration.
>
> "Will hate crimes and the Fairness Doctrine now threaten the
> broadcasting landscape?" the convention program states. "Where can you
> expect attacks on your religious programming content. What is the
> prospect for religious liberties in America.?"
>
> One panel speaker is the host of "Janet Parshall's America," a daily
> popular show on the Salem Radio Network. Some congressional Democrats
> have talked of specifically targeting Salem and its 95 radio stations
> by challenging its license renewals. In all, there are over 2,000
> Christian radio stations in America and 100 TV stations.
>
> "What we want to do is tell the message of Jesus," Parshalls tells
> HUMAN EVENTS. "What the Fairness Doctrine would have us do is give
> equal time to Buddha, Allah and [scientologist] L. Ron Hubbard."
>
> Indeed, the issues the conventioneers tackle especially rankle the
> Left. Christian broadcasters oppose same-sex marriage, abortion,
> rampant illegitimacy, teen pregnancy, strict teaching of evolution and
> the liberal secular movement. They promote marriage, home schooling,
> prayer in school and homosexual-to-heterosexual conversion.
>
> "These are things that would make religious broadcasters prime
> targets," Fein said.
>
> When voters in California last November approved Proposition 8, which
> defines marriage as between a man and woman, religious broadcasters
> may have made the difference.
>
> "We were a large mouth piece that kept the base informed," Pastore
> says.
>
> The party holding the White House enjoys a 3-2 commission majority,
> meaning the Obama FCC merely has to draw up a new Fairness Doctrine
> and vote to institute it.
>
> The Dallas-based "Point of View" is an example of a talk show that
> uses the Christian world view to discuss public policy issues. A
> second category of Christian broadcasting is the pastor who goes on
> the air to preach the Gospel.
>
> For both, the Fairness Doctrine "is going to have a chilling affect,"
> Kelley tells HUMAN EVENTS.
>
> The process would work this way: a Muslim group such as the Council on
> American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) or a homosexual rights group such as
> the American Civil Liberties Union would file a complaint with the FCC
> because, for example, "Point of View" did not provide a contrasting
> view.
>
> This would spur a formal FCC investigation involving the 370 radio
> stations who relay the show to an estimated two million listeners. The
> commission would be empowered to force the station to present pro-gay
> rights programing or lose its license. Some stations might opt to
> cancel the show to avoid the controversy -- and the legal expense.
>
> "For the teaching ministry in today's culture I think they will be
> dramatically affected," Kelley says. "If you have a pastor who talks
> of salvation through Jesus, then Muslim clerics will want equal time
> and to force Christian broadcasters to provide time to competing world
> views and religions."
>
> "If 'Point of View' does a program that deals with the problems of
> homosexuality, then any station that carries us would be forced to
> give air time to homosexuals, and I think that most broadcasters,
> rather than being forced into that situation, would restrict their
> broadcasters in the content they would put on the air."
>
> Pastore has doubts the Democrats and Obama will be so blatant. He
> believes a Democratic-controlled FCC will turn to the concept of
> "localism" to hamstring Christian broadcasters and deny license
> renewals.
>
> "We are going to take back the airways and give it back to local
> ownership," is the way the Left will begin the movement, Pastore says.
>
> Under Pastore's scenario, liberal groups will organize against certain
> broadcasters under the premise that the public airways should devote
> more time to local issues of importance. They then file complaints
> against radio stations across the country. The FCC interprets these
> complaints as a public outcry and establishes rules requiring stations
> to devote more time to pressing local issues. The end result: talk
> show hosts such as Pastore must relinquish air time.
>
> "Lets get a Christian host saying something that a gay listener is
> offended by," explains Pastore. "Just say that's wrong. He complaints.
> You have rally cry on the Left. this will set up the case for
> localism. Barack comes on and says, 'I can hear the voices of the
> people.'"
>
> Parshalls believes the FCC itself will set up panels across the
> country to monitor talk shows and report to Washington that station X
> if violating "localism" and needs new ownership.
>
> "So you dilute, dilute, dilute the message of the Gospel until there
> is no Gospel message left," Parshalls says. "What they want to do is
> have us sell all kinds of good [but] we believe them to be false
> except the Gospel of Jesus Christ."
>
> http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=30580
dave
> If idiots like Democrats actually knew how either radio or TV works,
> people with
> brains wouldn't have built digital, CD, DVD, HDTV, Optical
> Computers, Adaptive AI.
> GPS Digital Terrain Mapping, Drones, Cruise Missiles, Phalanx,
> AUVs,
> On-Line Banking, Fiber Optics, Microcomputers, Mini Harddisks,
> HDTV,
> GPS, parallel processing, Holograms, Holographic Memory, On-Line
> Publishing,
> Biodiesel, Pv Cell Energy, Cell Phones, Anti-Spam, Post Ford
> Batteries,
> and Post GM Robotics.
>
That makes no fucking sense.
BCBlazysusan
****His con snipped****
Well, it sounds like you are spewing the same thing you are condeming
them for. Sounds like you're preaching "your" version.
I think I will agree with the scriptures over a no doubt intellectual
scholarly fella such as yourself. ;-)
Good try though.
Mike
>
> I think I will agree with the scriptures over a no doubt intellectual
> scholarly fella such as yourself. ;-)
>
> Good try though.
Thre problem with "the scriptures" is that humans can only understand
them through the process of perception and interpretation. Two people
reading the same scriptures often interpret the words to mean very
different things. Some interpretations are so bizarre that some silly
people believe they can be used to predict the probable outcomes of
21st century foreign policies. In other word, they start the process
of interpretation with certain personal beliefs that they will always
end up at when they finish interpretation the scriptures.
Also, the scriptures have been altered over the millenia. Books have
been added and removed - not by God, but by bureaucratic committees in
the Vatican. Translations from one language to another also inserts
more "diftage" into the holiness of the scriptures.
I've never heard a very good answer to the problems involved in
scriptural interpretation.
I know a lot of what I hear on religious radio probably would make God
sick.
dxAce
Michael W. Bryant, the dufus who once claimed to have a PhD, wrote:
> On Feb 13, 9:48�am, BCBlazysusan <gk...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > I think I will agree with the scriptures over a no doubt intellectual
> > scholarly fella such as yourself. ;-)
> >
> > Good try though.
>
> Thre problem with "the scriptures" is that humans can only understand
> them through the process of perception and interpretation. Two people
> reading the same scriptures often interpret the words to mean very
> different things. Some interpretations are so bizarre that some silly
> people believe they can be used to predict the probable outcomes of
> 21st century foreign policies. In other word, they start the process
> of interpretation with certain personal beliefs that they will always
> end up at when they finish interpretation the scriptures.
>
> Also, the scriptures have been altered over the millenia. Books have
> been added and removed - not by God, but by bureaucratic committees in
> the Vatican. Translations from one language to another also inserts
> more "diftage" into the holiness of the scriptures.
"diftage" ? Surely you meant "driftage", PhDufus.
feel...@mypacks.net
Very well said. Given the popularity of Revelations among the
"Rapture" crowd today, for example, it's worth noting Martin Luther's
opinion among others.
feel...@mypacks.net
> > Telamon
> > Ventura, California
>
> Thanks, but I'm not holding my breath. And it's not propaganda. It's
> the truth. Living in liberal Southern California, you don't
> understand what goes down in isolated parts of Arizona.
Ventura County voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004. Elton Gallegly is the
local Congressman. When descriptive terms such as "liberal" cease to
be used to accurately describe a situation, maybe it's time to seek
more accurate terms that reflect a more complex reality.