Jesus' burial site found - film claims
Mark T
New film documents discovery of Jerusalem cave containing ten caskets
believed to hold remains of Jesus, Mary, Mary Magdalene and others
Ariella Ringel-Hoffman Published: 02.23.07, 10:26 / Israel Culture
The cave in which Jesus Christ was buried has been found in Jerusalem, claim
the makers of a new documentary film.
If it proves true, the discovery, which will be revealed at a press
conference in New York Monday, could shake up the Christian world as one of
the most significant archeological finds in history.
The coffins which, according to the filmmakers held the remains of Jesus of
Nazareth, his mother Mary and Mary Magdalene will be displayed for the first
timeon Monday in New York.
Jointly produced by Emmy award-winning documentary filmmaker Simcha
Jacobovici and Oscar winning director James Cameron, the film tells the
exciting and tortuous story of the archeological discovery.
The story starts in 1980 in Jerusalem's Talpiyot neighborhood, with the
discovery of a 2,000 year old cave containing ten coffins. Six of the ten
coffins were carved with inscriptions reading the names: Jesua son of
Joseph, Mary, Mary, Matthew, Jofa (Joseph, identified as Jesus' brother),
Judah son of Jesua (Jesus' son - the filmmakers claim).
Decades of research
The findings in the cave, including the decipherment of the inscriptions,
were first revealed about ten years ago by internationally renowned Israeli
archeologist Professor Amos Kloner.
Since their discovery, the caskets were kept in the Israeli Antiquities
Authority archive in Beit Shemesh, but now two have been sent to New York
for their first public exhibition.
Although the cave was discovered nearly 30 years ago and the casket
inscriptions decoded ten years ago, the filmmakers are the first to
establish that the cave was in fact the burial site of Jesus and his family.
The film, which documents the stages of the discovery, is the result of
three years labor and research. It will be broadcast on the international
Discovery Channel, Britain's Channel 4, Canada's Vision and Israel's Channel
8, which also took part in the film's production.
According to the filmmakers, the film's claim is based on close work with
world-famous scientists, archeologists, statisticians, DNA specialists and
antiquities experts.
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Culture/10764.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--
My Blog - - my thoughts on Christianity/ song covers & pics & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
Linda Lee
wrote:
>
> My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 formathttp://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
How exciting for you. LOL. Who's DNA were they supposed to have
matched this to, seeing the Messiah had no descendants, and God is a
Spirit? Did he have this alleged son when he returned to appoint Saul
as the head of the church or before his death? Are you possibly
related to his descendant?
e
"Mark T" <moi@home9857967576474834264756985434> wrote in message news:45df9ff0$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> Jesus' burial site found - film claims
>
> New film documents discovery of Jerusalem cave containing ten caskets
> believed to hold remains of Jesus, Mary, Mary Magdalene and others
>
> Ariella Ringel-Hoffman Published: 02.23.07, 10:26 / Israel Culture
>
This is a "film" made for entertainment, and is not considered factual.
(Probably made by the frustrated enemy.)
--
There's no hurry?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrmDWn6awMA
"The best way to drive out the devil, if he will
not yield to texts of Scripture, is to jeer and
flout him, for he cannot bear scorn."
http://bibleweb.info/ftp/ftp-members-0001.html
Born once, die twice. Born twice, die once.
Wisdom of a Lifetime - Audio MP3 Collection -
http://bibleweb.info/ftp/ftp-members-0002.html
The Last (5th) Horseman
http://bibleweb.info/ftp/ftp-members-0003.html
The Facts About Jesus, the Bible & the Afterlife
http://bibleweb.info/ftp/ftp-members-0004.html
The Way - http://john-14-6.com/john-14-6.pdf
A Tribute to THE KING
http://bibleweb.info/public-a-tribute-to-the-king.pdf
My Main Collection - http://Bibleweb.Info/
^^^ Sword of Gideon
"Mark T" <moi@home9857967576474834264756985434> wrote in message
news:45df9ff0$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
Remain calm, Jesus is still ALIVE!
[I talked to him this morning]
~~~ SOG
seon ferguson
century.
"Mark T" <moi@home9857967576474834264756985434> wrote in message
news:45df9ff0$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
Zadok
"Linda Lee" <> wrote in message
> How exciting for you. LOL. Who's DNA were they supposed to have
> matched this to, seeing the Messiah had no descendants, and God is a
> Spirit? Did he have this alleged son when he returned to appoint Saul
> as the head of the church or before his death? Are you possibly
> related to his descendant?
Perhaps rather than ridicule, you should do some reading.
Start with the Gospel of Philip -
36. There were three Mariams who walked with the Lord at all times: his
mother and [his] sister and (the) Magdalene°- this one who is called his
Companion°. Thus his (trueš) Mother and Sister and Mate is (also called)
'Mariam'.
It's just possible that Jesus would have been buried with his wife!!
You should never close your mind, to what was written!!
You have to forget the fairy tales you have been told, and do some studying.
Get back to us, when you have actually studied the case!!
Smile.
Zadok
"e" <once again showing his abject ignorance> wrote in message
> > Jesus' burial site found - film claims
> >
> > New film documents discovery of Jerusalem cave containing ten caskets
> > believed to hold remains of Jesus, Mary, Mary Magdalene and others
> >
> > Ariella Ringel-Hoffman Published: 02.23.07, 10:26 / Israel Culture
> >
>
>
> This is a "film" made for entertainment, and is not considered factual.
Gospel of Philip -
Zadok
"^^^ Sword of Gideon" <again showing his abject ignorance> wrote in message
<Snip-a-dodole>
>
> Remain calm, Jesus is still ALIVE!
>
> [I talked to him this morning]
>
> ~~~ SOG
36. There were three Mariams who walked with the Lord at all times: his
mother and [his] sister and (the) Magdalene°- this one who is called his
Companion°. Thus his (trueš) Mother and Sister and Mate is (also called)
'Mariam'.
Too bad when he talks to you, he doesn't tell you the truth.
But then again, maybe it's just another demon!!
Smile.
Zadok
"seon ferguson" <> wrote in message
...
> I'll believe that when the bodies can be scientificly tested to the 1st
> century.
Then why not apply the same to all religionist stuff??
Can you scientifically test anything to the 1st century??
OOOPS!!
Guess not!!
Smile.
Qadosh Stephanos
wrote:
The Gospel of Philip is a fairy tell.
Those beasts do not use toilet paper.
Some people go to bed with dirty poo.
Jude of Alexander
coffins were discovered 27 years ago (1980)?
Jani
"Jude of Alexander" <Ca...@swamp.USA> wrote in message
news:MeYDh.40927$19.2...@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> What doesn't make any sense is why now are they saying anything if these
> coffins were discovered 27 years ago (1980)?
Quite a lot *was* said; most of it boiled down to "it's a coincidence".
This might interest you, though:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/Books/story?id=1746724&page=3
Jani
Mark T
> (Probably made by the frustrated enemy.)
As rare as a Fundamentalist who loves his enemy.
Mark T
>> Jesus' burial site found - film claims
....
> Remain calm, Jesus is still ALIVE!
SO ... if they have actually found his bones will your faith in Jesus rather
than God be able to survive?
Mark T
>> What doesn't make any sense is why now are they saying anything if these
>> coffins were discovered 27 years ago (1980)?
>
> Quite a lot *was* said; most of it boiled down to "it's a coincidence".
>
> This might interest you, though:
>
> http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/Books/story?id=1746724&page=3
I'm skeptical about the find. It looks like another hoax.
HOWEVER .... if Jesus' body WAS found, would that be the end of
Christianity?
For Fundamentalists it would be!
^^^ Sword of Gideon
"Mark T" <moi@home9857967576474834264756985434> wrote in message
> "^^^ Sore of Gideon" <So...@no.brains.noway.com> wroteth:
>
>>> Jesus' burial site found - film claims
> ....
>> thou snippeth thee]
>
> SO ... if I have actually found his bones will your faith be in me
> rather than being able to survive my constant whinning?
>
>
>
> --
> My Blog - - my thoughts are weird at best!
~~~~ LOLFOF
Mark T
>>> I TALKED TO MY IMAGINARY FRIEND THIS MORNING
>> SO ... if I have actually found his bones will your faith be in babble
>> rather than your constant bible verse vomit?
>> My Bog - - my thoughts are weird bog!
> ~~~~~LOLLIPLOP
Have you taken your medication today?
--
"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my
enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it." - Voltaire
--
^^^ Sword of Gideon
"Mark T" after several large glasses of cheap red wine
<moi@home9857967576474834264756985434> wrote in message
news:45e126c0$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> Have you taken your medication today?
>
> --
> "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make
> my
> in hell]
>
>
> --
> My Blog - - my twisted views and worthless opinions on Christianity/ song
> covers & pics & links
>
> My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
Religion and drunkeness is always a bad mix. Friends don't let friends drive
drunk, or teach either.
~~~SOG
Linda Lee
> "Linda Lee" <> wrote in message
> > How exciting for you. LOL. Who's DNA were they supposed to have
> > matched this to, seeing the Messiah had no descendants, and God is a
> > Spirit? Did he have this alleged son when he returned to appoint Saul
> > as the head of the church or before his death? Are you possibly
> > related to his descendant?
>
> Perhaps rather than ridicule, you should do some reading.
>
> Start with the Gospel of Philip -
>
> 36. There were three Mariams who walked with the Lord at all times: his
> mother and [his] sister and (the) Magdalene°- this one who is called his
> 'Mariam'.
>
> It's just possible that Jesus would have been buried with his wife!!
Then who did he first appear to when he resurrected? And when he
resurrected, did she resurrect also or was her body still laying there
all alone? Or are you saying they're both still buried?
> You should never close your mind, to what was written!!
>
> You have to forget the fairy tales you have been told, and do some studying.
Much of what you see as Christianity's pagan mysticism was previously
counterfeited truth of the future incarnation. All pagan religions
are the Devil's religions and for that reason counterfeited truth.
> Get back to us, when you have actually studied the case!!
>
> Smile.
I have studied the case of Yeshua` being 'married' to Miriam of
Magdala (also believed to be Miriam of Bethany). I have read Holy
Blood, Holy Grail and I do not believe that any offspring was produced
by Yeshua` and Miriam. The story is that she was not buried with
Yeshua`, but escaped to France with their child. Not believable as
someone would know who this child became. Yeshua` was too important
even in the first century for them to have fallen into obscurity.
Also the Gnostic texts indicate that Mary was still around following
the crucifixion, wrote the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, and companied
with the apostles.
I do believe however she was his female companion and the Apostle to
the Apostles, as the Gnostic texts indicate, because she understood
what he was saying better than anyone else. I believe it also because
this text from the KJV supports it:
At the Messiah's resurrection of Lazarus:
John 11:43-45, "And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud
voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound
hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a
napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go. Then
****many of the Jews which came to MARY, and had seen the things which
Jesus did, believed on him."****
Linda Lee
> "Jude of Alexander" <C...@swamp.USA> wrote in messagenews:MeYDh.40927$19.2...@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>
> > What doesn't make any sense is why now are they saying anything if these
> > coffins were discovered 27 years ago (1980)?
>
> Quite a lot *was* said; most of it boiled down to "it's a coincidence".
>
> This might interest you, though:
>
> http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/Books/story?id=1746724&page=3
>
> Jani
All of the names Yeshua` and the Hebrew equivalents of John, Jude,
Mary etc. were very common.
Linda Lee
wrote:
> "Mark T" <moi@home9857967576474834264756985434> wrote in message
>
> news:45e0ddc8$2...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
> > "^^^ Sore of Gideon" <S...@no.brains.noway.com> wroteth:
>
> >>> Jesus' burial site found - film claims
> >> Remain calm, Jesus is still ALIVE! I TALK TO HIM THIS MORNING [Why doth
> >> thou snippeth thee]
>
> > SO ... if I have actually found his bones will your faith be in me
> > rather than being able to survive my constant whinning?
>
> > My Blog - - my thoughts are weird at best!
>
> ~~~~ LOLFOF
:-) I don't think Mark T finds it too funny when the ridicule is on
the other foot.
Linda Lee
>
"Jani" wrote:
> > > What doesn't make any sense is why now are they saying anything if these
> > > coffins were discovered 27 years ago (1980)?
> > Quite a lot *was* said; most of it boiled down to "it's a coincidence".
> > This might interest you, though:
> > http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/Books/story?id=1746724&page=3
> I'm skeptical about the find. It looks like another hoax.
> HOWEVER .... if Jesus' body WAS found, would that be the end of Christianity?
> For Fundamentalists it would be!
How unconscionable of you to post something you admit to being a hoax.
Mark T
>> Have you taken your medication today?
>> "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make
>> my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it." - Voltaire
....
> my drunkeness (sic) is always a bad mix.
"Ah, brother," said the confessor, "don't you know that whoever calls his
brother Raca is liable to hell fire? Now you have the misfortune to lead
anyone who reads you into immediate temptation to call you Raca. ... "
(Voltaire -The Jesuit Berthia)
--
My Blog - - my thoughts on Christianity/ song covers & pics & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
Mark T
Linda Lee
wrote:
> "Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> ... whatever ...
>
> Get a life you silly little person!
>
> --
>
> My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 formathttp://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
Your whole life appears to be attempting to look ridiculous with your
constant nonsensical insults towards fundamentalists. It's a mystery
how can you be a finite man and an infinite ass at the same time.
Barry OGrady
>"Mark T" after several large glasses of cheap red wine
><moi@home9857967576474834264756985434> wrote in message
>news:45e126c0$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> > Have you taken your medication today?
Does alot mean not a lot like atheist means not a theist?
>>
>> --
>> "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my
>> enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it." - Voltaire [currently residing in hell]
Mark must be Voltaires greatest enemy.
>>
>> --
>> My Blog - - my twisted views and worthless opinions on Christianity/ song
>> covers & pics & links
>> http://www.mark.t.drinking.again.com.au/strooth/
>>
>> My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
>> http://www.falling down drunk.com/marktindall
Mark being honest for a change?
>Religion and drunkeness is always a bad mix. Friends don't let friends drive
>drunk, or teach either.
Drunk in the spirit? (97% no poof)
>~~~SOG
Barry
=====
Home page
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
"You can just stay here in the sunshine playing with a ball or you can
sit in front of your computer and do something that matters."
Cartman in Southpark WOW
Barry OGrady
Mark is a fundamentalist.
Barry OGrady
Mark is all that and a full time fundamentalist! Mark hates himself.
^^^ Sword of Gideon
"Mark T" <moi@home9857967576474834264756985434> wrote in message
news:45e1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> "Sword of Gideon" So...@no.mail.noway.com wrote
> Have you tried prayer for your addiction?
.
.
.
>>> "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord,
>>> make
>>> my medication stronger today.' And God laugh at it." - Mark Tinkell
>>> my drunkeness (sickness) is always a bad mix of booze and dope.
>
>
> --
> My Blog - - my thoughts on Christianity/ song covers & pics & links
> http://www.bad.taste.blognow.com.au/strooth/
>
> My Soundclick Page - download my original version of "Tip toe through the
> tulips" in mp3 format
> http://www.soundclick.com/tiny.tim.and.marktinkell
>
>
The mind is a terrible thing to waste, we will pray for your recovery soon.
~~~ Not sore [just bored]
^^^ Sword of Gideon
"Linda Lee" <lindag...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1172393636.8...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 24, 9:03 pm, "^^^ Sword of Gideon" <S...@no.mail.noway.com>
> wrote:
>> "Mark T" <moi@home9857967576474834264756985434> wrote in message
>>
>> news:45e0ddc8$2...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>>
>> > "^^^ Sore of Gideon" <S...@no.brains.noway.com> wroteth:
>>
>> >>> Jesus' burial site found - film claims
>> > ....
>> >> Remain calm, Jesus is still ALIVE! I TALK TO HIM THIS MORNING [Why
>> >> doth
>> >> thou snippeth thee]
>>
>> > SO ... if I have actually found his bones will your faith be in me
>>
>> > --
>> > My Blog - - my thoughts are weird at best!
>>
>> ~~~~ LOLFOF
>
> :-) I don't think Mark T finds it too funny when the ridicule is on
> the other foot.
>
Just a little friendly fire, here in usernet very few of these folk are
sincere, Mark T is one of the few.
Unfortunately he is sincerely wrong most of the time.
Jani
Mark posted the original reference, Jude said it looked like a hoax, and I
posted the Tabor article without any comment. So, which of us is supposed to
be deliberately posting a hoax?
Jani
Jude of Alexander
"Jani" <ja...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:fbSdnUSBM_X...@pipex.net...
Yes, thanks. It also had links that I was glad to find.
Linda Lee
> "Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
In the following response to your post, Mark admitted he believed it
to be a hoax. Obviously, the hypothesis was intended to freak out his
sworn enemy - fundamentalists:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/5eaa66cb910caa2f
"Jani" wrote:
>> What doesn't make any sense is why now are they saying anything if these
>> coffins were discovered 27 years ago (1980)?
> Quite a lot *was* said; most of it boiled down to "it's a coincidence".
> This might interest you, though:
> http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/Books/story?id=1746724&page=3
Mark T wrote: "I'm skeptical about the find. It looks like another
hoax. HOWEVER .... if Jesus' body WAS found, would that be the end of
Christianity? For Fundamentalists it would be!"
One flaw in the theory was that someone named Matthew was buried in
this family tomb, and Matthew was not related to Yeshua`.
Jani
He was referring to the article *I* posted, not the one *he* posted. He
didn't make any comment about that, just posted a long extract from the
article itself.
Obviously, the hypothesis was intended to freak out his
> sworn enemy - fundamentalists:
If it's not a hoax, then people will be freaked about something a lot more
important to them than who did or didn't post to Usenet about it.
Jani
Mark T
Report: Sore Of Gideon Arrested For Indecent Exposure!
Alabama - A Alabama man who authorities said was caught on videotape
repeatedly exposing themself to neighbors was being held in the Alabama
Corrections Center on Thursday.
Sore Of Gideon, faces eight counts of indecent exposure and one count of
possession of marijuana and possession of drug paraphernalia, according to
Alabama Sheriff's Office spokesman Lt. John Murphy.
For more than a week the man's neighbors -- a husband and wife and their
children -- spotted a partially clothed man in his yard masturbating outside
on the grass while they drove toward their home, Murphy said.
Mark T
WITH PICTURES!!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Report: Sore Of Gideon Has Sex With Sheep!
Alabama - Earlier Sunday evening, Sore Of Gideon, a man from Alabama was
reported to have purchased one of "Loving Lambs - Inflatable Sheep". Parents
of the man called local Mental Health Unit to report that it is very
unlikely Gideon would have done such a thing.
The last report from the Alabama Mental Health Unit is that Gideon's car was
found on the side of the highway with puddles of baby oil, semen and plastic
parts all over the back seat. Also found inside the car was an empty "Loving
Lambs - Inflatable Sheep" box.
Because of the events surrounding this incident, Police filed a missing
persons report to find Sore Of Gideon.
The man was found shortly after completely covered in baby oil shouting...
"I didn't do it! I didn't do it!"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--
"Fundamentalism is demonic, and can only be met with the sword, or at least
a very vitriolic pen." - Peter Cameron
::: vera :::
Linda Lee <lindag...@juno.com> typed:
LOL
You say it, Linda. A big mystery. And a very good analogy.
Grace and Peace,
::: vera :::
Mark T
>>> >> >http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/Books/story?id=1746724&page=3
>>> >> I'm skeptical about the find. It looks like another hoax.
>>> >> HOWEVER .... if Jesus' body WAS found, would that be the end of
>>> >> Christianity?
...
> He was referring to the article *I* posted, not the one *he* posted. He
> didn't make any comment about that, just posted a long extract from the
> article itself.
I was referring to my post of the original article that one should be
skeptical of claims UNTIL PROVEN. Not that I had made up my mind one way or
the other. However, one can still discuss aspects of a news article on a
news group. Just because I am skeptical about the claims does not mean that
the article is not worth reading.
> If it's not a hoax, then people will be freaked about something a lot more
> important to them than who did or didn't post to Usenet about it.
Exactly!
The question that I pose IF the find is true is:
"If Jesus' body WAS found, would that be the end of Christianity?"
For those who worship Jesus as God (aka Fundamentalsists) it WOULD be the
end of their faith ...... but it wouldn't be the end of my faith.
Mark T
> Your whole life appears to be attempting to look ridiculous
--
"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my
enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it." - Voltaire
Jude of Alexander
" ::: vera :::" <vera...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:54eehiF...@mid.individual.net...
She called Mark as "INFINITE ASS!" Where's your fussing at cussing now?
Linda Lee
> " ::: vera :::" <veral...@lycos.com> wrote in messagenews:54eehiF...@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
> > Innews:1172397016....@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com,
> > Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> typed:
> >> On Feb 25, 4:05 am, "Mark T" <moi@home9857967576474834264756985434>
> >> wrote:
> >>> "Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> >>> ... whatever ...
>
> >>> Get a life you silly little person!
>
> >>> --
> >>> My Blog - - my thoughts on Christianity/ song covers & pics &
> >>> linkshttp://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
>
> >>> My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3
> >>> formathttp://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
>
> >> Your whole life appears to be attempting to look ridiculous with your
> >> constant nonsensical insults towards fundamentalists. It's a mystery
> >> how can you be a finite man and an infinite ass at the same time.
>
> > LOL
>
> > You say it, Linda. A big mystery. And a very good analogy.
>
> She called Mark as "INFINITE ASS!" Where's your fussing at cussing now?
It was a play on words, i.e. Mark T's continual assertion that the
'finite' Messiah cannot be the 'infinite' God (ignoring the fact that
spirits inhabit human bodies and God is a Spirit).
I did not mean Mark T was a buttocks, the only vulgar use of the
word. An ass is a silly person and a donkey or burro, and a jackass
is a word meaning nitwit or stupid foolish person and a male donkey.
It was another way of calling Mark a "silly little person" as he did
me.
Linda Lee
wrote:
> "Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wroteth:
>
> > Your whole life appears to be attempting to look ridiculous
>
> --
> "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my
> enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it." - Voltaire
>
> --
>
> My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 formathttp://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
Mark,
You wrote: "For those who worship Jesus as God (aka Fundamentalsists)
it WOULD be the
end of their faith ...... but it wouldn't be the end of my faith."
You don't even know what a fundamentalist is. Fundamentalists are NOT
all people who are "those who worship Jesus as God (aka
Fundamentalsists)".
Fundamentalist:
"a movement in American Protestantism that arose in the early part of
the 20th century in reaction to modernism and that stresses the
infallibility of the Bible not only in matters of faith and morals but
also as a literal historical record, holding as essential to Christian
faith belief in such doctrines as the creation of the world, the
virgin birth, physical resurrection, atonement by the sacrificial
death of Christ, and the Second Coming." From dictionary.com
Many people you condemn as Fundamentalists do not believe one or more
of those concepts. In fact, belief in God incarnate as Messiah is not
one of the criteria required to be a Fundamentalist, so I'm assuming
they can believe that he was only the Son of God as you do.
So it is solely those who believe that Messiah was God incarnate that
you hate, not "Fundamentalists".
Mark T
>> She called Mark as "INFINITE ASS!" Where's your fussing at cussing now?
>
> It was a play on words, i.e. Mark T's continual assertion that the
> 'finite' Messiah cannot be the 'infinite' God (ignoring the fact that
> spirits inhabit human bodies and God is a Spirit).
Learn some basic logic!
The infinite One God can NEVER be FULLY CONTAINED in a FINITE human and THAT
is what calling Jesus "God" means! If Jesus is anything LESS than the
infinite One God then he is NOT God at all in any way.
All things exist within the infinite One God .....
"In [YAHWEH ... not YAHWEH"S ANOINTED HUMAN MESSIAH] we live and move and
have our being" - Acts 17:28 ....
HOWEVER having God indwell you because the One God is infinite does not mean
that God is FULLY CONTAINED within you. The infinite One God is EVERYWHERE!
Jesus was a FINITE Jew!
You have traded the INFINITE ONE GOD for a FINITE IDOL, you silly little
person!!!!!
NOTE: "God was IN Christ" (2 Cor. 5:19-21).
NOT "God WAS Christ"
Learn the difference between finite and infinite!
Mark T
>> "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make
>> >> my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it." - Voltaire
...
> You wrote: "For those who worship Jesus as God (aka Fundamentalsists)
> it WOULD be the end of their faith ...... but it wouldn't be the end of my
> faith."
Yep!
> You don't even know what a fundamentalist is.
Yes I do! I used to be one. YOU are a fundamentalist.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES OF A FUNDAMENTALIST
... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist:
'Firstly, a fundamentalist has a very strong emphasis on the inerrancy of
the Bible, and believes in the absence from it of any sort of error.
Two, a strong hostility to modern theology and to the method, results and
implications of modern critical study of the Bible.
And three, an assurance that those who do not share their religious
viewpoint are not really true Christians at all.'
From Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Before you answer "Peter Cameron doesn't know either" ... check out his
credentials.
> Messiah was God
Messiah CANNOT be God because Messiah is GOD's Messiah i.e. the Messiah
BELONGS to God! God anoints Messiah. God does not anoint Himself.
Silly lttle person!
"Look unto Me [YAHWEH], and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth; for I
[YAHWEH] am God, and there is none else [INCLUDING JESUS OF NAZARETH]."
Isaiah 45:21
Learn some basic logic!
The infinite One God can NEVER be FULLY CONTAINED in a FINITE human and THAT
is what calling Jesus "God" means! If Jesus is anything LESS than the
infinite One God then he is NOT God at all in any way.
All things exist within the infinite One God .....
"In [YAHWEH ... not YAHWEH"S ANOINTED HUMAN MESSIAH] we live and move and
have our being" - Acts 17:28 ....
HOWEVER having God indwell you because the One God is infinite does not mean
that God is FULLY CONTAINED within you. The infinite One God is EVERYWHERE!
Jesus was a FINITE Jew!
You have traded the INFINITE ONE GOD for a FINITE IDOL, you silly little
person!!!!!
NOTE: "God was IN Christ" (2 Cor. 5:19-21).
NOT "God WAS Christ"
Learn the difference between finite and infinite!
--
Terry Cross
wrote:
> "Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
> >> She called Mark as "INFINITE ASS!" Where's your fussing at cussing now?
>
> > It was a play on words, i.e. Mark T's continual assertion that the
> > 'finite' Messiah cannot be the 'infinite' God (ignoring the fact that
> > spirits inhabit human bodies and God is a Spirit).
>
> Learn some basic logic!
>
> The infinite One God can NEVER be FULLY CONTAINED in a FINITE human
Learn some basic literacy. No one has ever stated that God was
"contained" in Jesus.
> and THAT
> is what calling Jesus "God" means!
Of course it does not.
John 10 (King James Version)
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are
gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the
scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the
world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
> If Jesus is anything LESS than the
> infinite One God then he is NOT God at all in any way.
God took human form in the Old Testament, too. How strange you object
to the New and not the Old.
> All things exist within the infinite One God .....
> "In [YAHWEH ... not YAHWEH"S ANOINTED HUMAN MESSIAH] we live and move and
> have our being" - Acts 17:28 ....
> HOWEVER having God indwell you because the One God is infinite does not mean
> that God is FULLY CONTAINED within you. The infinite One God is EVERYWHERE!
How nice that you can contradict yourself.
> Jesus was a FINITE Jew!
God is not Jewish.
> You have traded the INFINITE ONE GOD for a FINITE IDOL, you silly little
> person!!!!!
You have traded and infinite God for a moth-eaten parchment, which
your priests kiss and worship.
TCross
::: vera :::
Linda Lee <lindag...@juno.com> typed:
I think it was a great analogy. :-) Yes, an ass is a nice animal
(donkey, that is what I have here in my dictionary - lol) that behaves
like Mark T does. :-)
I for one have printed your post out and hung it right next to the other
one by Jude Alexander with all of his assholes. :-) I guess these are
some deep caves for donkeys. ;-)
Have a wonderful Monday,
::: vera :::
Vic
"Mark T" <moi@home9857967576474834264756985434> wrote in message
> "Linda Lee" <lindag...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> >> "I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord,
make
> >> >> my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it." - Voltaire
> ...
> > You wrote: "For those who worship Jesus as God (aka Fundamentalsists)
> > it WOULD be the end of their faith ...... but it wouldn't be the end of
my
> > faith."
>
> Yep!
>
>
> > You don't even know what a fundamentalist is.
>
> Yes I do! I used to be one. YOU are a fundamentalist.
No you was not
Matt 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked
his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
Matt 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some,
Elijah; and others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.
Matt 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son
of the living God.
Matt 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, **Blessed art thou, Simon
Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father
which is in heaven.**
If your faith is based on revelation given by flesh and blood, then it is
not a living faith.
Your pathetic little god, is your puny mind.
::: vera :::
Terry Cross <tcro...@hotmail.com> typed:
> On Feb 25, 11:31 pm, "Mark T" <moi@home9857967576474834264756985434>
> wrote:
>> "Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>>>> She called Mark as "INFINITE ASS!" Where's your fussing at
>>>> cussing now?
>>
>>> It was a play on words, i.e. Mark T's continual assertion that the
>>> 'finite' Messiah cannot be the 'infinite' God (ignoring the fact
>>> that spirits inhabit human bodies and God is a Spirit).
>>
>> Learn some basic logic!
>>
>> The infinite One God can NEVER be FULLY CONTAINED in a FINITE human
>
> Learn some basic literacy. No one has ever stated that God was
> "contained" in Jesus.
Terry, please let me add...
I think Mark is lacking imagination. He thinks God must function like a
human being, and he cannot imagine there might be any other form of
existence that is above all the others and in all the others at the same
time.
He forgets that God made the natural laws, but does not have to submit
to them.
I think God does a lot of miracles when he reaches simple minds like
Mark, but - praise the Lord! - that happens all the time, too.
Grace and Peace,
::: vera :::
Mark T
>>YOU are a fundamentalist.
>
> No you was not
--
'As rare as a Fundamentalist who loves his enemy.
#################################################
... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist '... an assurance that those
who do not share their religious viewpoint are not really true Christians at
all.' - Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178
#################################################
Mark T
>> Learn some basic logic!
>> The infinite One God can NEVER be FULLY CONTAINED in a FINITE >>human
>
> Learn some basic literacy. No one has ever stated that God was
> "contained" in Jesus.
IF
you are stating that Jesus is God
THEN
you are stating that God is fully contained within Jesus
OTHERWISE
Jesus is not fully God but only contains PART of God. We ALL contain part of
God because God is infinite and God is in ALL of us. That does not mean
that every individual is God!
No finite individual can be the infinitye One God because the mass total of
all individuals is still a finite number, the individula is one from that
finite number and God is infinite
NOTE: "God was IN Christ" (2 Cor. 5:19-21).
NOT "God WAS Christ"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MATHEMATICAL PROOF 1.
IF
God is finite
THEN
God is not infinite for the sum total of all finite things is greater than
God. God becomes another THING (idol) amongst many.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MATHEMATICAL PROOF 2
infinity / 1 is infinity but 1 / infinity is close enough to 0
so
inifinite God / all the people that exit, have ever existed or will exist =
infinite God God
i.e. God is greater than the sum of all individuals (including Jesus of
Nazareth). All individulas are included in the infinite God buit the
infinite God cannot be fully contained in any one individual.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Prove otherwise!
>> If Jesus is anything LESS than the
>> infinite One God then he is NOT God at all in any way.
>
> God took human form in the Old Testament, too.
No He didn't!
>> All things exist within the infinite One God .....
>> "In [YAHWEH ... not YAHWEH"S ANOINTED HUMAN MESSIAH] we >>live and move
>> and have our being" - Acts 17:28 ....
>> HOWEVER having God indwell you because the One God is infinite does not
>> >>mean that God is FULLY CONTAINED within you. The infinite One God is
>> >>EVERYWHERE!
>
> How nice that you can contradict yourself.
QUE? Where??????
>> Jesus was a FINITE Jew!
>
> God is not Jewish.
Therefore the infiite Onbe God is NOT Jesus of Nazareth, a Jew.
You have traded the INFINITE ONE GOD for a FINITE IDOL, you silly little
person!!!!!
--
Barry OGrady
Mark must have a deep respect for you. He responds to your posts
but not to mine.
I don't know why you let Mark get to you. Mark hates everyone.
> ::: vera :::
Terry Cross
wrote:> >> The infinite One God can NEVER be FULLYCONTAINEDin a FINITE >>human
>
> > Learn some basic literacy. No one has ever stated that God was
> > "contained" in Jesus.
>
> IF
>
> you are stating that Jesus is God
>
> THEN
>
> you are stating that God is fullycontainedwithin Jesus
I have before me a glass of merlot. It is not all the merlot in the
world, but it is still merlot and very good merlot it is, too.
This drink IS merlot.
And Jesus is God.
What is your question again?
> OTHERWISE
>
> Jesus is not fully God but only contains PART of God. We ALL contain part of
> God because God is infinite and God is in ALL of us. That does not mean
> that every individual is God!
This drink is merlot. When I am finished with my wine, I shall drink
water. I shall not drink all the water in the Pacific Ocean, but it
shall be water.
> No finite individual can be the infinitye One God because the mass total of
> all individuals is still a finite number, the individula is one from that
> finite number and God is infinite
>
> NOTE: "God was IN Christ" (2 Cor. 5:19-21).
> NOT "God WAS Christ"
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> MATHEMATICAL PROOF 1.
>
> IF
>
> God is finite
>
> THEN
>
> God is not infinite for the sum total of all finite things is greater than
> God. God becomes another THING (idol) amongst many.
The first rule of mathematics is that Math is a tool of thought, and
only a man-made tool. Mathematics does not rule the motion of
planets, nor the life of electrons. Those things operate
independently of mathmatics, and we bend and shape our tools
accordingly.
In what school did you come by your profound knowledge of the
Infinite?
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> MATHEMATICAL PROOF 2
>
> infinity / 1 is infinity but 1 / infinity is close enough to 0
Exactly. And Johnny Carson is close enough to bedtime. Your
doctrines are so erudite.
> so
>
> inifinite God / all the people that exit,
Hopefully, they found the RIGHT exit - I hate to think of them lost in
some dark, smelly alley when the door slams behind them.
> have ever existed or will exist =
> infinite God God
God x 2, I suppose. Never thought of it that way. Pray, continue.
> i.e. God is greater than the sum of all individuals (including Jesus of
> Nazareth). All individulas are included in the infinite God buit the
> infinite God cannot be fullycontainedin any one individual.
You certainly have a thing about this containment problem.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Prove otherwise!
>
> >> If Jesus is anything LESS than the
> >> infinite One God then he is NOT God at all in any way.
>
> > God took human form in the Old Testament, too.
>
> No He didn't!
Jacob said God took human form. After Jacob wrestled with the
stranger, Jacob said, "for I have seen God face to face, and my life
is preserved." (Genesis 32:30, King James Version).
Moreover, in Genesis 32:28, the man with whom Jacob wrestled stated,
"Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have
struggled with God and with men and have overcome." [KJV]
I think you ought to get out of your containers more often.
TCross
Terry Cross
wrote:
> "Vic" <some...@home.co.uk> wrote:
> >>YOU are a fundamentalist.
>
> > No you was not
>
> --
> 'As rare as a Fundamentalist who loves his enemy.
Is that rarity as great as the Jew who demonstrates as much religious
tolerance to others as he demands from others for himself?
Is it that rare?
TCross
Terry Cross
wrote:
> "Jani" wrote:
> >>> >> >http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/Books/story?id=1746724&page=3
> >>> >> I'm skeptical about the find. It looks like another hoax.
> >>> >> HOWEVER .... if Jesus' body WAS found, would that be the end of
> >>> >> Christianity?
> ...
> > He was referring to the article *I* posted, not the one *he* posted. He
> > didn't make any comment about that, just posted a long extract from the
> > article itself.
>
> I was referring to my post of the original article that one should be
> skeptical of claims UNTIL PROVEN. Not that I had made up my mind one way
> or the other.
Those who sit on the fence will suffer the worst saddle sores.
TCross
Eliyahu
wrote:
> "Mark T" <moi@home9857967576474834264756985434> wrote in message
>
>
> <Snip-a-dodole>
>
> Remain calm, Jesus is still ALIVE!
>
>
> ~~~ SOG
Bs'd
Read here why JC was not God and not messiah; http://www.geocities.com/Metzad
Eliyahu
Mark T
>> >> Learn some basic logic!
>> >> The infinite One God can NEVER be FULLY CONTAINED in a FINITE
>> >> >>>>human
...
>> IF
>> you are stating that Jesus is God
>> THEN
>> you are stating that God is fully contained within Jesus
>
> I have before me a glass of merlot. It is not all the merlot in the
> world, but it is still merlot and very good merlot it is, too.
>
> This drink IS merlot.
>
> And Jesus is God.
>
> What is your question again?
I have before me a glass of merlot. It is not all the merlot in the world,
but it is still merlot and very good merlot it is, too.
This drink IS merlot BUT the glass is NOT merlot! The glass is a container
of a PART of all the merlot in the world. I cannot point to this single
glass and claim that it is ALL the merlot in the world. There are millions
of other glassess of merlot. The drink in these glasses is exactly the same
as the original glass of merlot being discussed. None of these glasses are
merlot either! Every glass has a bit of merlot in it but none of the
glasses has ALL the merlot in the world in it.
To point to a single glass and say "This is all the merlot in the world" is
ridiculous.
> Jesus is God.
Jesus like one glass of merlot amongst millions of glasses of merlot.
Mark 17:21 - 22 (MTV) "....that all of the glasses of merlot may be one, All
Merlot In The World, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also
be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given
them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one "
Obviously we (as glasses of merlot) are EACH "all the merlot in the world"
THEREFORE by your illogic WE ARE ALL GOD!!!!
>> Jesus is not fully God but only contains PART of God. We ALL contain part
>> of
>> God because God is infinite and God is in ALL of us. That does not mean
>> that every individual is God!
>
> This drink is merlot.
The SINGLE GLASS is not merlot. EVERY glass has merlot in it. No glass is
more special than another glass in that respect.
>> God is not infinite for the sum total of all finite things is greater
>> than
>> God. God becomes another THING (idol) amongst many.
>
> The first rule of mathematics is that Math is a tool of thought
Obviously you don't understand it!
One glass of merlot does not equal all the merlot in the world.
There are millions of glasses of merlot in the world!
IF
Jesus = one glass of merlot
God = all the merlot in the world
THEN
One glass of merlot DOES NOT EQUAL all the merlot in the world
All the merlot in the world cannot be contained in one ordinary glass.
SO .....
Jesus DOES NOT EQUAL God
If Jesus is anything LESS than the infinite One God then he is NOT God at
all in any way. At best he is only a MINI-god who has God within him.
"God was IN Christ" (2 Cor. 5:19-21).
NOT "God WAS Christ"
OR
"Part of all the merlot in the world was in the single wine glass which was
used for special occassions."
NOT "All the merlot in the world was fully contained in the single wine
glass."
>> i.e. God is greater than the sum of all individuals (including Jesus of
>> Nazareth). All individulas are included in the infinite God but the
>> infinite God cannot be fully contained in any one individual.
>
> You certainly have a thing about this containment problem.
You certainly are stupid in misunderstanding basic mathematics.
If Jesus is anything LESS than the infinite One God then he is NOT God at
all in any way. At best he is only a FINITE MINI-god who has part of the
INFINITE God within him.
You should also read your Bible ......
"He (THE INFINITE ONE GOD) is not a (FINITE) man, as I am" Job 9:32
"the Glory of Israel (THE INFINITE ONE GOD) will not lie nor repent; for He
(THE INFINITE ONE GOD) is not a (FINITE ) man, that He (THE INFINITE ONE
GOD) should repent." I Samuel 15:29
--
"I (THE INFINITE ONE GOD) am (THE INFINITE ) God, and not (FINITE) man"
Hosea 11:9
--
"In [THE INFINITE ONE GOD, YAHWEH ... not YAHWEH"S ANOINTED FINITE HUMAN
MESSIAH] we live and move and have our being" - Acts 17:28
###########################################################
PART OF THE INFINITE ONE GOD WAS IN THE FINITE CHRIST. (2 Cor. 5:19-21).
NOT
THE INFINITE ONE GOD WAS THE FINITE CHRIST.
############################################################
Basic Maths!
Mark T
>> >>> >> I'm skeptical about the find. It looks like another hoax.
>> >>> >> HOWEVER .... if Jesus' body WAS found, would that be the end of
>> >>> >> Christianity?
>> ...
>> > He was referring to the article *I* posted, not the one *he* posted. He
>> > didn't make any comment about that, just posted a long extract from the
>> > article itself.
>>
>> I was referring to my post of the original article that one should be
>> skeptical of claims UNTIL PROVEN. Not that I had made up my mind one >>
>> way or the other.
>
> Those who sit on the fence will suffer the worst saddle sores.
One needs to weigh all the evidence and not make rash judgements based on
partial evidence, like you.
All is not black and white in this world.
Linda Lee
wrote:
> "Terry Cross" <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>> >> I'm skeptical about the find. It looks like another hoax.
> >> >>> >> HOWEVER .... if Jesus' body WAS found, would that be the end of
> >> >>> >> Christianity?
> >> ...
> >> > He was referring to the article *I* posted, not the one *he* posted. He
> >> > didn't make any comment about that, just posted a long extract from the
> >> > article itself.
>
> >> I was referring to my post of the original article that one should be
> >> skeptical of claims UNTIL PROVEN. Not that I had made up my mind one >>
> >> way or the other.
>
> > Those who sit on the fence will suffer the worst saddle sores.
>
> One needs to weigh all the evidence and not make rash judgements based on
> partial evidence, like you.
>
> All is not black and white in this world.
>
You might consider that when you blurt out your rash judgment that the
infinite God could not inhabit a finite man. Your logic is sorely
lacking. God is a Spirit, non-corporeal; men contain a spirit. The
body is finite, the Spirit is not.
Mark T
>> One needs to weigh all the evidence and not make rash judgements based on
>> partial evidence, like you.
>> All is not black and white in this world.
>
> You might consider that when you blurt out your rash judgment that the
> infinite God could not inhabit a finite man.
Your logic is sorely lacking.
The infinite One Godf can never be fully contained in any finite human.
> God is a Spirit
... but Jesus of Nazareth is a human.
worshipping the CREATOR
- Yahweh
- Infinite One God
- Owner / Anointer of the Messiah
- Spirit
worshipping the CREATION
- Jesus of Nazareth
- Finite human
- Owned / Anointed by Yahweh (Yahweh's Messiah)
- Made from the dust of the ground
NOTE: "God was IN Christ" (2 Cor. 5:19-21).
NOT "God WAS Christ"
I have before me a glass of merlot. It is not all the merlot in the world,
but it is still merlot and very good merlot it is, too.
This drink IS merlot BUT the glass is NOT merlot! The glass is a container
of a PART of all the merlot in the world. I cannot point to this single
glass and claim that it is ALL the merlot in the world. There are millions
of other glassess of merlot. The drink in these glasses is exactly the same
as the original glass of merlot being discussed. None of these glasses are
merlot either! Every glass has a bit of merlot in it but none of the
glasses has ALL the merlot in the world in it.
To point to a single glass and say "This is all the merlot in the world" is
ridiculous.
Jesus like one glass of merlot amongst millions of glasses of merlot.
The SINGLE GLASS is not merlot. EVERY glass has merlot in it. No glass is
more special than another glass in that respect.
IF
Jesus = one glass of merlot
God = all the merlot in the world
THEN
One glass of merlot DOES NOT EQUAL all the merlot in the world
All the merlot in the world cannot be contained in one ordinary glass.
SO .....
Jesus DOES NOT EQUAL God
If Jesus is anything LESS than the infinite One God then he is NOT God at
all in any way. At best he is only a MINI-god who has God within him.
"God was IN Christ" (2 Cor. 5:19-21).
NOT "God WAS Christ"
OR
"Part of all the merlot in the world was in the single wine glass which was
used for special occassions."
NOT "All the merlot in the world was fully contained in the single wine
glass."
If Jesus is anything LESS than the infinite One God then he is NOT God at
all in any way. At best he is only a FINITE MINI-god who has part of the
INFINITE God within him.
You should also read your Bible ......
"He (THE INFINITE ONE GOD) is not a (FINITE) man, as I am" Job 9:32
"the Glory of Israel (THE INFINITE ONE GOD) will not lie nor repent; for He
(THE INFINITE ONE GOD) is not a (FINITE ) man, that He (THE INFINITE ONE
GOD) should repent." I Samuel 15:29
--
"I (THE INFINITE ONE GOD) am (THE INFINITE ) God, and not (FINITE) man"
Hosea 11:9
--
"In [THE INFINITE ONE GOD, YAHWEH ... not YAHWEH"S ANOINTED FINITE HUMAN
MESSIAH] we live and move and have our being" - Acts 17:28
###########################################################
PART OF THE INFINITE ONE GOD WAS IN THE FINITE CHRIST. (2 Cor. 5:19-21).
NOT
THE INFINITE ONE GOD WAS THE FINITE CHRIST.
############################################################
Basic Maths!
^^^ Sword of Gideon
"Mark T" <moi@home985796987678758646467764434> wrote in message
news:45e4...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> Jesus DOES NOT EQUAL God
1+1+1=14
You refuse the wittness of God's word and
stick your thumb out against our wittness.
My King is Christ, your's must be "Burger King"; have it your way.
Terry Cross
wrote:
> "Terry Cross" <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Learn some basic logic!
> >> >> The infinite One God can NEVER be FULLY CONTAINED in a FINITE
> >> >> >>>>human
> ...
> >> IF
> >> you are stating that Jesus is God
> >> THEN
> >> you are stating that God is fully contained within Jesus
>
> > I have before me a glass of merlot. It is not all the merlot in the
> > world, but it is still merlot and very good merlot it is, too.
>
> > This drink IS merlot.
>
> > And Jesus is God.
>
> > What is your question again?
>
> I have before me a glass of merlot. It is not all the merlot in the world,
> but it is still merlot and very good merlot it is, too.
>
> This drink IS merlot BUT the glass is NOT merlot!
Thanks for your concern, but I did not eat or drink the glass. I put
it into the dishwasher to use another day.
> The glass is a container
> of a PART of all the merlot in the world. I cannot point to this single
> glass and claim that it is ALL the merlot in the world. There are millions
> of other glassess of merlot. The drink in these glasses is exactly the same
> as the original glass of merlot being discussed.
Wrong you are, there. No Merlot drinker would agree with you.
> None of these glasses are
> merlot either!
Exactly. The contents of the glass was merlot. The glass itself is
not suitable for human consumption.
> Every glass has a bit of merlot in it but none of the
> glasses has ALL the merlot in the world in it.
>
> To point to a single glass and say "This is all the merlot in the world" is
> ridiculous.
It is not even correct.
> > Jesus is God.
>
> Jesus like one glass of merlot amongst millions of glasses of merlot.
Jacob wrestled with God, then stated he had wrestled with God. You
have deleted that part from the discussion.
> > This drink is merlot.
>
> The SINGLE GLASS is not merlot.
Exactly. The drink is, the glass is not.
> EVERY glass has merlot in it. No glass is
> more special than another glass in that respect.
Some have Chardonnet - a dreadful wine if ever there was.
> >> God is not infinite for the sum total of all finite things is greater
> >> than
> >> God. God becomes another THING (idol) amongst many.
>
> > The first rule of mathematics is that Math is a tool of thought
>
> Obviously you don't understand it!
I forgot you people worship mathematics and call it Kabbalah. No
wonder you object.
> One glass of merlot does not equal all the merlot in the world.
No one claims that Jesus equalled all the God that ever there was. If
that were true, Jesus would not address God, nor would Jesus suffer.
> There are millions of glasses of merlot in the world!
>
> IF
>
> Jesus = one glass of merlot
> God = all the merlot in the world
>
> THEN
>
> One glass of merlot DOES NOT EQUAL all the merlot in the world
The contents of the glass is merlot.
All the merlot in the world is merlot.
Two things equal to the same thing are equal to each other. How silly
is your mathematics when incorrectly applied. For example:
One cat has one more tail than no cat.
No cat has eight tails.
Therefore one cat has nine tails.
> All the merlot in the world cannot be contained in one ordinary
glass.
>
> SO .....
>
> Jesus DOES NOT EQUAL God
Equality is not the subject. Jesus is God.
> If Jesus is anything LESS than the infinite One God then he is NOT God at
> all in any way. At best he is only a MINI-god who has God within him.
At best you are working desperately to defend yourself from a religion
that obviously threatens you.
Now tell us about Jacob wrestling with God in Genesis 32:30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God
face to face, and my life is preserved.
TCross
Terry Cross
wrote:
> "Mark T" <moi@home985796987678758646467764434> wrote in message
>
> news:45e4...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
> > Jesus DOES NOT EQUAL God
> > Basic Maths!
Theorem: a cat has nine tails.
Proof: No cat has eight tails. A cat has one tail more than no cat.
Therefore, a cat has nine tails.
http://www.anvari.org/shortjoke/Science_Humor/68.html
TCross
Mark T
... whatever ....
BIBLE - the Fundamentalist Golden Calf which comes in a Trew Kristyun
version that you can supersize with added fries (in Hell).
Quoting the Bible is NOT quoting God.
The Bible ...[is] ... a collection of human responses to God (very human,
some of them all too human), which we are at liberty to use in the process
of formulating our own individual, unique response to God. We don't do that
by imitating these responses slavishly. I mean God, if he exists, doesn't
want innumerable clones of the apostle Paul. He wants us to respond to him,
each of us in our own unique way. And we can use the Bible to do that, but
we don't do it by obeying it slavishly and blindly. - Peter Cameron
"Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 195
--
Mark T
.... whatever ....
worshipping the CREATOR
- Yahweh
- Infinite One God
- Owner / Anointer of the Messiah
- Spirit
worshipping the CREATION
- Jesus of Nazareth
- Finite human
- Owned / Anointed by Yahweh (Yahweh's Messiah)
- Made from the dust of the ground
NOTE: "God was IN Christ" (2 Cor. 5:19-21).
NOT "God WAS Christ"
--
Mark T
>> >> >> The infinite One God can NEVER be FULLY CONTAINED in a >>>>>>FINITE
>> >> >> human
>> ...
>> >> IF
>> >> you are stating that Jesus is God
>> >> THEN
>> >> you are stating that God is fully contained within Jesus
....
> No one claims that Jesus equalled all the God that ever there was. If
> that were true, Jesus would not address God, nor would Jesus suffer.
THEN
Jesus cannot BE God!!!!
If Jesus is anything LESS than the infinite One God then he is NOT God at
all in any way. At best he is only a MINI-god who has God within him.
You should also read your Bible ......
"He (THE INFINITE ONE GOD) is not a (FINITE) man, as I am" Job 9:32
"the Glory of Israel (THE INFINITE ONE GOD) will not lie nor repent; for He
(THE INFINITE ONE GOD) is not a (FINITE ) man, that He (THE INFINITE ONE
GOD) should repent." I Samuel 15:29
--
"I (THE INFINITE ONE GOD) am (THE INFINITE ) God, and not (FINITE) man"
Hosea 11:9
--
"In [THE INFINITE ONE GOD, YAHWEH ... not YAHWEH"S ANOINTED FINITE HUMAN
MESSIAH] we live and move and have our being" - Acts 17:28
###########################################################
PART OF THE INFINITE ONE GOD WAS IN THE FINITE CHRIST. (2 Cor. 5:19-21).
NOT
THE INFINITE ONE GOD WAS THE FINITE CHRIST.
############################################################
Terry Cross
wrote:
> "Terry Cross" <tcros...@hotmail.com> wroteth:
>
> .... whatever ....
That must be Yiddish for "Not going there." Love it.
I showed your logic is weak and fallible. Now deal with it.
TCross
(: Lawrence Meckan :)
Only a fundamentalist would consider their logic infallible and beyond
question.
lawrence
Terry Cross
wrote:
Heh, heh.
TCross
Mark T
> I showed your logic is weak and fallible.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! ROTFLMAO!!!!!!
You should read your Bible ......
"He (THE INFINITE ONE GOD) is not a (FINITE) man, as I am" Job 9:32
"the Glory of Israel (THE INFINITE ONE GOD) will not lie nor repent; for He
(THE INFINITE ONE GOD) is not a (FINITE ) man, that He (THE INFINITE ONE
GOD) should repent." I Samuel 15:29
--
"I (THE INFINITE ONE GOD) am (THE INFINITE ) God, and not (FINITE) man"
Hosea 11:9
--
"In [THE INFINITE ONE GOD, YAHWEH ... not YAHWEH"S ANOINTED FINITE HUMAN
MESSIAH] we live and move and have our being" - Acts 17:28
###########################################################
PART OF THE INFINITE ONE GOD WAS IN THE FINITE CHRIST. (2 Cor. 5:19-21).
NOT
THE INFINITE ONE GOD WAS THE FINITE CHRIST.
############################################################
(: Lawrence Meckan :)
> On Feb 27, 11:26 pm, "(: Lawrence Meckan :)" <lmec...@SMEEyahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> Terry Cross wrote:
>>> On Feb 27, 9:24 pm, "Mark T" <moi@home985796987678758646467764434>
>>> wrote:
>>>> "Terry Cross" <tcros...@hotmail.com> wroteth:
>>>> .... whatever ....
>>> That must be Yiddish for "Not going there." Love it.
>>> I showed your logic is weak and fallible. Now deal with it.
>> Only a fundamentalist would consider their logic infallible and beyond
>> question.
>>
>> lawrence
>
> Heh, heh.
There's something in that for you.. in case you thought merely having
fallible logic means that person is wrong.
lawrence
Terry Cross
I know the weakness of the tools. Sometimes they are right, sometimes
wrong. Such is fallible. I did not prove Mark T wrong; I merely
showed that his tools are inadequate for the task to which he puts
them.
TCross
Mark T
> I did not prove Mark T wrong; I merely showed that his tools are
> inadequate for > the task to which he puts them.
BULLSHIT! You made multiple category mistakes.
You should read your Bible ......
"He (THE INFINITE ONE GOD) is not a (FINITE) man, as I am" Job 9:32
"the Glory of Israel (THE INFINITE ONE GOD) will not lie nor repent; for He
(THE INFINITE ONE GOD) is not a (FINITE ) man, that He (THE INFINITE ONE
GOD) should repent." I Samuel 15:29
--
"I (THE INFINITE ONE GOD) am (THE INFINITE ) God, and not (FINITE) man"
Hosea 11:9
--
"In [THE INFINITE ONE GOD, YAHWEH ... not YAHWEH"S ANOINTED FINITE HUMAN
MESSIAH] we live and move and have our being" - Acts 17:28
###########################################################
PART OF THE INFINITE ONE GOD WAS IN THE FINITE CHRIST. (2 Cor. 5:19-21).
NOT
THE INFINITE ONE GOD WAS THE FINITE CHRIST.
############################################################
Terry Cross
wrote:
> "Terry Cross" <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I did not prove Mark T wrong; I merely showed that his tools are
> > inadequate for > the task to which he puts them.
>
> BULLSHIT! You made multiple category mistakes.
>
> You should read your Bible ......
I have been told on the very best authority (by Jews, of course) that
the Bible belongs to the Jews and only they should read read it. In
fact, the Talmud says much the same:
Sanhedrin 59a:
R. Johanan said: A heathen who studies the Torah deserves death, for
it is written, Moses commanded us a law for an inheritance; it is our
inheritance, not theirs. Then why is this not included in the
Noachian laws? -- On the reading morasha [an inheritance] he steals
it; on the reading me'orasah [betrothed], he is guilty as one who
violates a betrothed maiden, who is stoned. An objection is raised:
R. Meir used to say. Whence do we know that even a heathen who
studies the Torah is as a High Priest? From the verse, [Ye shall
therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments:] which, if man do, he
shall live in them. Priests, Levites, and Israelites are not
mentioned, but men: hence thou mayest learn that even a heathen who
studies the Torah is as a High Priest! - That refers to their own
seven laws.
But as it happens, I tend to agree with them. The people who read the
Bible tend to turn out like YOU, Mark T: violent, self-righteous,
noisesome, insulting, hateful, ignorant, and intolerant.
Much like Moses, in fact. Moses was the one who wrote about all the
people he would like to see stoned, burned, poisoned, tortured, and
massacred. Moses was one dangerous character, and the damage he did
to Western Civilization cannot be measured.
TCross
Mark T
> violent, self-righteous, noisesome, insulting, hateful, ignorant, and
> intolerant.
Yes, but what are your bad characteristics?
SEE THE TERRY CROSS VIDEO!!!!!
http://terry.cross.wasarrested.com/?loc=Mississippi&gen=m&story=15
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Report: Terry Cross Caught On Video Having Sex With A Blowup Doll!
Mississippi - Earlier today, in Mississippi, it was reported that Terry
Cross was caught on video having sex with a blowup doll..
A friend from a Mississippi had come by for a friendly visit when it was
discovered that Cross was making strange noises upstairs. This man has some
serious issues according to his Mom . As reported... Terry Cross is now
single
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Abby
"(: Lawrence Meckan :)" <
> Only a fundamentalist would consider their logic infallible and beyond
> question.
>
> lawrence
You sound like Mark.
Abbs
(: Lawrence Meckan :)
Why is it so scary that *all* people recognise their fallibility, Abby ?
Is fundamentalist Christianity, as it was put in Jesus of Montreal,
simply "..just quietly waiting for death" and not recognising the
equality of all people on this earth, regardless of race, colour, creed,
sexuality, etc.. ???
lawrence
Jani
"(: Lawrence Meckan :)" <lme...@SMEEyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:45e56588$0$11550$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
If they would wait *quietly*, I wouldn't mind so much ...
Jani
::: vera :::
Terry Cross <tcro...@hotmail.com> typed:
Ha, ha, ha! Good joke.
::: vera :::
Terry Cross
wrote:
> "Terry Cross" <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > violent, self-righteous, noisesome, insulting, hateful, ignorant, and
> > intolerant.
>
> Yes, but
What a great way to start a rebuttal.
> what are your bad characteristics?
>
> SEE THE TERRY CROSS VIDEO!!!!!
>
> http://terry.cross.wasarrested.com/?loc=Mississippi&gen=m&story=15
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Report: Terry Cross Caught On Video Having Sex With A Blowup Doll!
It is amazing how many Moses followers are habitual liars obsessed
with sex and defacation. You have pulled that same gag for a dozen
other posters in the last few months, - it seems to be endlessly
amusing to you.
TCross
Terry Cross
wrote:
You are projectile reasoning again.
Equality and inequality have nothing to do with Fundy Christianity.
Only Judaism is concerned with the inherent superiority of adherents.
As the Talmud rabbis wrote:
Baba Kamma 113b:
"Where a suit arises between an Israelite and a heathen, if you
can justify the former according to the laws of Israel, justify him
and say: 'This is our law;' so also if you can justify him by the laws
of the heathens, justify him and say to the other party: 'This is your
law;' but if this cannot be done, we use subterfuges to circumvent
him."
"The Pharisees held that only Israelites are men ... Gentiles classed
not as men but as barbarians," writes the Jewish Encyclopedia in the
article on Gentiles.
http://jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=142&letter=G
TCross
Mark T
>> > violent, self-righteous, noisesome, insulting, hateful, ignorant, and
>> > intolerant.
...
>> what are your bad characteristics?
...
> obsessed with sex and defacation. ... it seems to be endlessly amusing
Oh!
--
"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my
enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it." - Voltaire
--
Abby
"(: Lawrence Meckan :)" <...
You aren't comparing apples to apples.
I really wonder where you come up with your logic Lawrence. Its so far out
there.....kind of like Sensi, except you aren't quite as metaphoric.....but
close!
Abby
Sensi
Well,if you're not comparing apples to apples and you see no
logic in comparing with metaphors then what the hell are you
talking about Abby Jeanette?
Abby
"Sensi" <>> "(: Lawrence Meckan :)" <...
It's Abby Jeannette. Even your spelling is off too.
Abby
Barry OGrady
>Abby wrote:
>> "(: Lawrence Meckan :)" <
>>> Only a fundamentalist would consider their logic infallible and beyond
>>> question.
>>>
>>> lawrence
>>
>> You sound like Mark.
>
>Why is it so scary that *all* people recognise their fallibility, Abby ?
They all recognise your fallibility.
>Is fundamentalist Christianity, as it was put in Jesus of Montreal,
>simply "..just quietly waiting for death" and not recognising the
>equality of all people on this earth, regardless of race, colour, creed,
>sexuality, etc.. ???
Fundamentalist Christianity recognises there is no equality nor justice
desired by Christianity's God.
You have rightly rejected God and constructed your own.
>lawrence
Barry
=====
Home page
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
I do not represent atheists or atheism
Barry OGrady
>"Terry Cross" <tcro...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I did not prove Mark T wrong; I merely showed that his tools are
>> inadequate for > the task to which he puts them.
>
>BULLSHIT! You made multiple category mistakes.
>
>You should read your Bible ......
... whatever ....
BIBLE - the Fundamentalist Golden Calf which comes in a Trew Kristyun
version that you can supersize with added fries (in Hell).
>"He (THE INFINITE ONE GOD) is not a (FINITE) man, as I am" Job 9:32
>
>"the Glory of Israel (THE INFINITE ONE GOD) will not lie nor repent; for He
>(THE INFINITE ONE GOD) is not a (FINITE ) man, that He (THE INFINITE ONE
>GOD) should repent." I Samuel 15:29
>
>--
>"I (THE INFINITE ONE GOD) am (THE INFINITE ) God, and not (FINITE) man"
>Hosea 11:9
>
>--
>"In [THE INFINITE ONE GOD, YAHWEH ... not YAHWEH"S ANOINTED FINITE HUMAN
>MESSIAH] we live and move and have our being" - Acts 17:28
Quoting the Bible is NOT quoting God.
Barry
Qadosh Stephanos
wrote:
>On Feb 27, 7:38 pm, "Mark T" <moi@home985796987678758646467764434>
>wrote:
>> "Terry Cross" <tcros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> >> I'm skeptical about the find. It looks like another hoax.
>> >> >>> >> HOWEVER .... if Jesus' body WAS found, would that be the end of
>> >> >>> >> Christianity?
>> >> ...
>> >> > He was referring to the article *I* posted, not the one *he* posted. He
>> >> > didn't make any comment about that, just posted a long extract from the
>> >> > article itself.
>>
>> >> I was referring to my post of the original article that one should be
>> >> skeptical of claims UNTIL PROVEN. Not that I had made up my mind one >>
>> >> way or the other.
>>
>> > Those who sit on the fence will suffer the worst saddle sores.
>>
>> One needs to weigh all the evidence and not make rash judgements based on
>> partial evidence, like you.
>>
>> All is not black and white in this world.
>>
>
>You might consider that when you blurt out your rash judgment that the
>infinite God could not inhabit a finite man. Your logic is sorely
>lacking. God is a Spirit, non-corporeal; men contain a spirit. The
>body is finite, the Spirit is not.
Mark is labeled as an liberal fanatic Christian.
He has a sour and dirty moist pussy for reality.
Mirrors don't tell what he looks to see in self.
Wrighteous Network
THE LOST TOMB OF JESUS
This Sunday the Discovery Channel will debut a made-for-TV documentary
titled "The Lost Tomb of Jesus." Filmmakers claim that a tomb in the Talpiot
neighborhood of Jerusalem is the final resting place of Jesus of Nazareth
and several members of his family. Not only does the documentary seek to
undermine the deity of Christ, it attempts to substantiate the Magdalene
Heresy made popular by Dan Brown's book The DaVinci Code.
The Talpiot tomb was originally discovered in 1980. It is a large tomb that
contained ten ossuaries (an ossuary is a chest that holds skeletal remains).
Archaeologists say there is nothing extraordinary about the tomb, but
filmmakers believe they have made a discovery that will shake the very
foundations of Christianity. They believe the tomb contained the remains of
Jesus of Nazareth, as well as his mother Mary, his father Joseph, and other
family members. They also speculate that one of the ossuaries found in the
tomb contains the remains of Mary Magdalene. According to the filmmakers,
their "discovery" supports claims that Jesus and Mary Magdalene where
married and may have had children.
A Fraud of Titanic Proportions
The writer, producer, and director of the Discovery Channel documentary is
Simcha Jacobovici and its executive producer is James Cameron, the man who
brought us the film Titanic. Jacobovici was the driving force behind the
documentary, however he is not an archaeologist and his speculations leave
many questions unanswered. In fact, most of the scholars who have reviewed
his claims - even those who are not Christians - have raised objections to
the validity of his assertions. Jacobovici lays out an impressive array of
data, including the results of DNA-testing and statistical analysis.
However, while Jacobovici does a good job of selling his speculations, he
can't actually prove any of them. Scientists and scholars around the world
have been quick to point out the many holes in his theory.
When the Talpiot tomb was originally excavated more than 26 years ago, the
ossuaries were taken to the Rockefeller Archaeological Museum outside the
Old City of Jerusalem. Joe Zias, who was the curator for anthropology and
archeology at the museum from 1972 to 1997, personally numbered the Talpiot
ossuaries. Zias has criticized on the Discovery Channel documentary saying,
"Projects like these make a mockery of the archeological profession." He
further stated that the show's producers have "no credibility whatsoever."
What's in a Name?
Of the ten ossuaries found in the tomb, six of them had inscriptions.
Although in some cases, the "inscriptions" appear to be little more than
crudely scratched names. The names archeologists found carved on ossuaries
in the Talpiot tomb were: Jesus son of Joseph, Maria, Mariamene, Matthew,
Judas son of Jesus, and Jose (a diminutive of Joseph). Producers of the
documentary believe that Mariamene (or Mary) is in fact Mary Magdalene.
However there is no evidence directly connecting Mary Magdalene to the Mary
in the tomb. Furthermore, scholars are quick to point out that these were
all very common names. The name Mary is one of the most common of all
ancient Jewish female names. In fact, during the first century, nearly 25
percent of women in Jerusalem, for example, were called Miriam or some
derivative of that name. Even the name "Jesus" was a popular name in the
first century; it has been discovered in at least 98 other tombs and on 21
other ossuaries.
The Gnostic Gospels
Much like DaVinci Code author Dan Brown, the documentary's producers relied
heavily upon the so-called "Gnostic gospels" to support their conjectures
concerning Jesus and Mary Magdalene (in particular the Gospel of Phillip).
Scholars widely agree that none of the Gnostic gospels contain historically
reliable information about the life of Jesus and that all were likely
written in the second century or later - in contrast to the contemporaneous
eyewitness accounts in the New Testament. The Gnostic gospels are not really
"gospels" at all, but rather they are filled with unverifiable claims and
were written under false pseudonyms in an attempt to gain legitimacy (i.e.
the "Gospel of Philip" was not written by Philip, nor was it even written
during his lifetime). These documents emerged during the centuries following
the ministries of the Apostles and were universally rejected by the early
church. The Gnostic gospels include The Gospel of Judas, The Gospel of
Thomas, The Gospel of Philip, The Gospel of Mary, The Gospel of Truth, and
about four dozen others.
The Ossuary of James
In addition to his other claims, Jacobovici believes that the now-infamous
ossuary of James is authentic and that it may have come from the Talpiot
tomb. (In 2003, the Israeli Antiquities Authority declared that the
inscriptions on the James ossuary were modern forgeries. To this day, the
ossuary's province of origin remains unknown. The collector who owned the
ossuary has since been convicted of forging various other ancient
artifacts.) According to Newsweek, the technique Jacobovici uses to "prove"
the match between the James ossuary and the Talpiot tomb is a technology he
calls "patina fingerprinting," which was essentially invented for the
purposes of the film.
The Truth of the Matter
Amos Kloner is the archaeologist who oversaw the work at the tomb in 1980
and who authored the official report on the dig. He says the burial cave is
not extraordinary. "It's a typical Jewish burial cave of a large size. The
names on the ossuaries are very common names or derivatives of names. There
is no likelihood that Jesus and his relatives had a family tomb. They were a
Galilee family with no ties in Jerusalem. The Talpiot tomb belonged to a
middle-class family from the first century CE." Recently he told The
Jerusalem Post that, "It makes a great story for a TV film. But it's
impossible. It's nonsense."
The conjectures presented in "The Lost Tomb of Jesus" are filled with holes.
According Amos Kloner's report the tomb was disturbed in ancient times, and
vandalized. Some of the biggest questions that remain unanswered relate to
this early break-in: who vandalized the cave, when, what did they do there
and why? Also, it is highly unlikely that Joseph, who died in Galilee, was
buried in Jerusalem (he would have most likely been buried in Nazareth or
Bethlehem). The Talipot tomb and ossuaries also clearly belonged to a rich
family. Why would Jesus' family have a tomb outside of Jerusalem if they
were from Nazareth? Why would they have a tomb if they were poor? More
importantly, there is no DNA evidence to suggest that the remains in the
Talipot tomb are that of the historical Jesus of Nazareth. There is also no
historical evidence that Jesus was ever married or had a child. Nor can the
filmmakers refute historical evidence of Jesus' resurrection. Even the Roman
centurions who were given the task of guarding the Jesus' tomb acknowledged
that it was empty. After which, Jesus appeared in the flesh before hundreds
of witnesses.
Ben Witherington, a professor at Asbury Theological Seminary, commented on
the documentary saying, "Unfortunately, this is a story full of holes,
conjectures and problems. It will make good TV and involves a bad critical
reading of history. Basically, this is old news with a new interpretation.
We have known about this tomb since it was discovered in 1980. There are all
sorts of reasons to see this as much ado about nothing."
While the Discovery Channel documentary may not be true, it does indeed make
for good television. Even more unfortunate, it makes for convincing
television. No doubt many who see it will be deceived. In times like these,
when we find ourselves amidst an ever-increasing barrage of conflicting
information, it is important to rely on God's Word for guidance and to
remember that grace and truth come by Jesus Christ.
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"Qadosh Stephanos" <qadosh.s...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:jr7ju2pl2jacpgkag...@4ax.com...
Linda Lee
wrote:
I watched the 'documentary' (docudrama) 'The Lost Tomb of Jesus' last
night, and they provided virtually NO 'evidence' apart from the names
on the coffins. Ted Koppel claimed their statistical figures
concerning the probability of this being THE Yeshua` family tomb were
way, way off and that the odds weren't nearly so high as the director,
Simcha, claimed they were.
After the showing of The Lost Tomb of Jesus, Ted Koppel held an hour-
long discussion with four people: the Director Simcha Jacobovici and
James Tabor (an author and consultant on the film) along with an
archaeologist with 40 years experience in Middle Eastern digs and
another man who was a professor of religious studies. The
archaeologist stated their "conclusions were already drawn in the
beginning" of the inquiry and that their "argument goes far beyond any
reasonable interpretation".
At first Simcha claimed to be a journalist, but when it was pointed
out to him that the reenactments of Yeshua` and Mary with their
alleged son, was not journalism, but was drama, he claimed to be a
filmmaker (and therefore apparently entitled to poetic license).
Simcha and Tabor looked like deer caught in the headlights because Ted
Koppel had letters from several people Simcha had quoted in the film
who denied making the statements attributed to them.
Simcha alleges in the film that an ossuary missing from the tomb of
'the family of Jesus' was actually the famous James ossuary (currently
being adjudicated in a court of law, believed to be the ossuary of
James the brother of Yeshua`), yet the archaeologist who was at the
original dig on the Jesus tomb denies this, and said in a letter to
Koppel that he had seen all of the ossuaries there and that the one
that later turned up missing had been unmarked, while the James
ossuary has both his name and a rosette engraved on it.
One denial was in the form of a letter from the director of the DNA
testing Lab that Simcha had used to test the DNA of two of the
ossuaries (i.e. coffins), about which Simcha falsely claimed the DNA
of the one named Yeshua` was "a match" for the remains of the James
ossuary. The Director of the lab denied ever saying they were a
match, and said he'd have to do much more comparison testing of other
tombs before he could draw any conclusions.
Simcha claimed in the film concerning the ossuaries marked Yeshua` and
'Mary'; "because the DNA did not match, the forensic archaeologist
concluded that they *must be* husband and wife". This was also untrue,
and Koppel had a letter from the forensic archaeologist who denied
saying this and in fact logically stated "you cannot genetically test
for marriage".
Simcha had previously done a 'documentary' concerning his claims to
have found all of the Lost Tribes of Israel, a sadly unconvincing
documentary as well.
I'll have to agree with the archaeologist that concerning "The Lost
Tomb of Jesus" their "argument goes far beyond any reasonable
interpretation".