Banned from the Jose Roca forum
MikeTrader
http://groups.google.es/group/comp.lang.basic.powerbasic/browse_thread/thread/e1a056169a01cb21?hl=en#
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lang.powerbasic/browse_thread/thread/e1a056169a01cb21/5395dc6c7813a94f#5395dc6c7813a94f
or
http://groups.google.es/group/comp.lang.basic.powerbasic/browse_thread/thread/e1a056169a01cb21?hl=en#
In response to Jose Roca's post:
http://www.jose.it-berater.org/smfforum/index.php?topic=3240.30
>"Un-fortunatly", I never have received a pay check from Mr. Zale.
Doing Mr Zales dirty work, does not require a paycheck, as you and
every other forum admin that placates him during his tirades know full
well. You cower like mice under at the first hint threat of loosing
favor with the owner of your pet compiler. Executing someone elses
wishes make them your boss by definition.
Now if you are going to try to assert that Mr Zale did not ask you to
ban me, then it would a huge conincidence that I received this email
from you the DAY AFTER I was banned by Mr Zale:
Friday, February 01, 2008 9:10 AM
Hi Mike,
I have been told that “Mike Trader” is a false identity for xxxx
xxxxxx, of xxxxxxx xxxxxxx.
Please change the display name in your account settings if you want to
continue to post. No need to re-register (I don’t care if you use Mike
Trader for login), just change the “Name” setting.
Click “Profile” in the top menu, and then “Account Related Settings”
in the “Modify Profile” menu.
Regards,
José Roca
>I did not know that you were using a false identity. You are a mendacious person.
I sent you four $100 payments over the years jose. The last one in
July 2007.
http://tinypic.com/r/vhclqu/6
(I have blurred your details as I am sure even you care about your
privacy)
Each payment had my full name and address.
I also remeber telling you about the phone call on Tuesday September
16th, 2005 during which Mr Zale personally granted me permission to
continue using my handle Mike Trader. That day he DEMANDED to, know my
full real name, which I reluctantly gave, and bought more product with
my Credit Card to cement the deal. Thats how Mr Zale got my
information. A busness transaction, and when he illegally passed it on
to you he broke the law.
You want to talk about mendacious? (given to lying; "an untruthful
person", intentionally untrue) Perhaps you should ask Mr Zale why he
continues to assert that I am not banned from the powerbasic forums
when I am? or why he denies granting permission to Wayne and I (and
probably many others) to use handles when he did? or why he denies
banning users and deleting threads when he does?
Newsflash.Simply asserting something doesn't make it a true statement.
>Where I live, "Pepe" is a familiar form of José, exactly the same as Joe is for Joseph
I see, so if I register as Pete Trader you think that would be ok with
Mr Zale? somehow I doubt it.
Pete sounds nothing like Mike and Pepe sounds nothing like Jose. Pepe
is handle, even if it is a cultural one.
I respected you and considered you my friend. I sent you money for
work you did for me and built a relationship of trust and friendship.
Now, riddled with guilt and shame no doubt, you refuse to even answer
my emails. I hope anyone thinking of doing business with you
understands that while you might be a COM expert, you are prone to
stab your friends and collegues in the back.
I hope you find your "relationship" with your new boss rewarding, cos
you lost all of my business and five years of help and respect in the
space of one day.
hutch--
You are flogging a dead horse here. A casual read of this newsgroup
show that you have had serious arguments with the PowerBASIC vendor
including dragging them through a legal hearing that you ended up
losing. Now the bottom line is you were not willing to adhere to the
rules of being a member of the PowerBASIC peer forum.
The line of argument taken in a clapped out old newsgroup like this is
EXACTLY THE REASON why they don't allow anonymous membership in the
peer forum, people hiding behind some bullshit name using their
anonymity as a shield to criticise other people who are not afraid to
be identified.
If you want to live in a world of anonymous venues, get used to the
dickheads who frequent them, virus writers, WAREZ suppliers and the
rest of the trash you find in places like this.
Its time to move on, the trail of damage you have left behind you is
not fixable, hit the big time in C++, learn some decent MASM
programming and you will get there. This cowards castle damages your
credibility badly, I bother because I have known you for years, much
like Wayne and I don't want to see you keep making a fool of yourself
in a place like this.
Regards,
hutch
MikeTrader
says:
"You did no make business with me. You did not sent payments but
donations. We never have had a business contract and I never have
asked you to pay me."
This is true. They were "donations" They were made after he solved a
problem for me, and we did not have a contract. Can there be any doubt
after four such transactions that my donations are for the work he did
for me? Thats for you to decide.
What is clear is that it was appreciated
Monday, March 27, 2006 7:04 AM
Hi Mike,
Many thanks for your payment. I'm thinking in investing part of it to
buy the Aurora compiler. It is yet in the alpha state, but has some
features that attract me --the same ones that I would like to see
implemented in PB--, such COM classes, and native support for low-
level COM (interface pointers). It could use it as an auxiliary tool
to make DLLs for PB. Currently I have to spend too much time making
wrappers and looking for workarounds to overcome the shortcomings of
the PB compilers regarding COM.
despite your spiteful retort by email today:
"400$ are a mere 265 euros. I pay more to the woman that cleans my
house. I only accepted them to not offend you. My mistake."
I do concede it is possible that my full name was not revealed to him
when I sent the four payments. Other vendors have addressed purchases
to me by name, but it is possible that the paypal system does not send
that information if nothing is being shipped. Since I have never know
Mr Roca to lie, I want to qualify my statement above by saying that
while he may not have known my actual name, I am certain that I told
him I was using a handle in the powerbasic forums and he activated my
account knowing that. Jose Roca forum changed its registration policy
from allowing handles to requiring full real name after I had been a
member for a long while.
Welcome, MikeTrader!
Your account has been activated manually by the admin and you can now
login and post. Your username is: MikeTrader
You may change it after you login by going to the profile page, or by
visiting this page after you login:
http://www.jose.it-berater.org/smfforum/index.php?action=profile
Regards,
The José Roca Forum Team.
However, if he says he did not know that I was using a handle then I
will accept thatt. I only make factual statements here. I do not need
to resort to lying.
So the question is, if Jose did NOT know my name from my "donations",
how did he get it? There is only ONE PLACE he could have got it from,
Mr Zale. The fact that I got an email from Mr Roca with my full name
and address, banning me from his forum the day after I was banned from
the powerbasic forum (for reasons still unknown) is absolute proof
that he was sent this information by Mr Zale.
So:
ANYONE GIVING THEIR PERSONAL INFORMATION TO MR. ZALE IS TAKING THE
CHANCE THAT IT WILL BE SENT TO THIRD PARTIES IN VIOLATION OF THE LAW
AND THE STATED PRIVACY POLICY ON THE POWERBASIC WEBSITE.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!
Let there be no mistake that I was stabbed in the back by someone I
considered a valuable resource and a friend at the behest of Mr Zale.
You have no had to ban two good people, myself and Wayne asa a result
of your allegence to Mr Zale (who by your own admission has never paid
you a penny despite all the work you did on v9 of the powerbasic
compiler). How many more? As I told you, it gives me no pleasure to
bring you into this Jose, but you lie with dogs, you get fleas.
Hutch,
Mr Zale personally allowed me and Wayne to use a handle in his forums
for years, so asserting that I was banned for not following rules is
ridiculous. Internet privacy is not only a good idea, its a multi
billion dollar business. I filed a complaint with the Better Business
Bureau because Mr Zale is breaking the law by advertising products for
sale and discriminating against certain registered users, refusing to
sell them product. Mr Zale denied all the allegations so the BBB
referred me to legal council. He also broke the law (not to mention
his own privacy policy) when he sent my personal information to Mr
Roca as proved in this thread. Those are the bottom lines.
As for moving on flogging a dead horse and making a fool, I think I
answered that here
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lang.powerbasic/browse_thread/thread/a27a4c0158e45003
but was the tabacco industry whistle blower a fool too? He was about
the most unpopular man in a billion dollar industry for years.
"Wigand paid dearly for going public. Amid lawsuits, countersuits, and
an exhaustive smear campaign orchestrated by the company, Wigand lost
his family, his privacy, and his reputation. His wife divorced him,
and their two daughters went to live with her."
Being unpopular is the price you pay for revealing an inconvenient
truth.
hutch--
Its a case of "who gives a PHUK" but in the data presented in this
clapped out old newsgroup of repeated slander against a person and
company that is known in public, he in fact has every right to publish
your fake name, real name or anything else as you have carried the
argument to him, not the other way around.
That you did not win the case against PB Inc says your repeated
slander of PB and its founder is just a case of sour grapes for losing
the case.
Now in much the same way as that inbecile who thought he had hit the
big time by posting my name, address and phone number in this
shithole, it CAN BE DONE TO YOU AS WELL. I can easily be found in the
Sydney Phone Book, my name is on the domain name register for each
site I keep and I have nothing to hide and if the person who wants to
get in contact with me needs to do so, its very easy.
You claim you have some reason to hide behind a fake name and while it
does not bother me at all as I have known you for years, you are the
free kick in here if anyone wants to publish you name, address and
phone number, just llike that PHUKING idiot thought he could do to me.
As a friend I have tried to give you some friendly advice, give up
this childish vendetta as it makes you look terrible, move on to the
VC/VS Microsoft stuff you posted in the masm forum and leave this
behind, you are not a crusader protecting the rest of the world, you
are seeking revenge for losing an argument about trying to lever
privelege that other PB peer group forum members don't have and don't
want, to be treated differently than the rest and be able to flout the
rules that everyone else abides by.
MikeTrader
cheap shot and utterly deplorable. I do not condone that behavior or
the pirating of software. I am sorry that you were subjected to that..
Basic Guy
Why are you kissing his ass?
Hutchesson came here to piss all over you and this newsgroup, because
Bob Zale told him to.
So here we go again. Get ready for another installment of the Steve
Leslie Hutchesson FAQ:
--------------------------------------------
Steve Leslie Hutchesson is Bob Zale's internet sock puppet. His purpose
is to argue against Zale's critics because Zale tried it and couldn't
handle the aftermath. So Zale enlisted his bum-buddy Steve Hutchesson
to come here and do it for him.
Steve is an Australian. He is 61 years old.
His birthdate is June 18, 1948.
Steve lives at this address:
13 chapman street
Surry Hills, New South Wales 2010
Phone: 02 93312672
Here is a google-maps link to his street address.
Click and drag the yellow "person" icon (at the top of the zoom control)
to the location marked as "A" on the map to see the streetscape around
Steve's appartment. You'll see Steve's crappy white car parked on the
street.
In case you need to contact him, try this e-mail address:
Email: hu...@masmforum.com
Steve Hutchesson frequently fantasizes about children, and usually
imagines that he is engaged in conversation with them. Perhaps this is
a carry-over from his participation in chatrooms frequented by children.
Steve is particularly fond of the concepts of corporal punishment and
adult-child imagery and interaction. He is so titillated by these
phrases that he uses them over and over again:
- mummy started smacking you poor little bottom
- dirty little pictures of little boys, CHILD PORN-
- be a man, let go of your DICK
- prevent mummy from smacking your poor little bottom even harder.
- she gets out the BIG paddle, your poor little bottom will be so sore
- little bottom will be so sore it will glow in the dark.
A psychoanalytic study of the above phrases reveal that Steve was raised
in a strict, disciplinary way by his mother. His mother was probably
distant, domineering, certainly abusive, and fault finding. The sexual
themes he mixes with ideas of maternal punishment indicates a latent and
possibly unresolved oedipus complex.
Steve was born in 1948 - a difficult, stressful and chaotic time during
the post-war recovery after world war 2. His mother's pregnancy might
have been unintentional (perhaps the result of a one-night stand) and
that might explain the harsh discipline expressed by his mother towards
him. It can be theorized that a father figure was probably absent for
most of Steve's childhood, and that he has difficulty forming personal
relationships with women. A tendency towards sadomasochism (which is
also indicated in the above themes) would not helpful in that regard.
--------------
Steve is a fan and advocate of Power Basic. He would like as many
people to use it as possible, even if they have to download it via
torrent. He recommends the following links:
PowerBasic v9.0 with firefly visual designer:
Powerbasic 8.01:
http://torrents.thepiratebay.org/3515513/PowerBasic_For_Windows_v8.01.3515513.TPB.torrent
--------------
Here are some examples of how Steve is thought of and interacts with
other members of the programming community:
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/
This page mainly serves to warn people of the treatment they can except
from Stephen Leslie Hutchesson, a.k.a. hutch--, for as little as merely
disagreeing with his point-of-view.
Below are links to threads, posts and even declassified moderation
material involving or highlighting Steve "hutch--" Hutchesson and his
abusive actions toward members of the former Win32ASM Community, now ASM
Community, along with his disrepect of fellow moderators at the time.
Feel free to read, but please form your own opinion by investigating
sources outside of these... namely search the UseNET group alt.lang.asm
and Steve's own forum at http://www.masm32.com/ for further evidence on
the continuation in this pattern of misconduct.
� WA: jeezes hutch, cut it out - An early example of how Steve exhibits
the logical fallacy called "Special Pleading" and his desires to create
an anti-American / pro-Australian medium.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030419043536.html
� allow members to delete their own threads in WA? - Steve attacks a
fellow moderator by applying the typical logical fallacy called "Ad
Hominem".
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030419051201.html
� Does the world want Bush's Republican New World Order - An example of
how Steve enjoys drawing people into flame-wars. The original poll had
two choices, "YES, we all want to grovel to Bush's superior culture" and
"NO, they can shove it up their arse".
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030419212041.html
� Who deleted the poll I started in WA ? - Illustrates Steve's animosity
towards Americans, or anyone who simply doesn't agree with him for that
matter, with a little hint of a logical fallacy called "Biased Sample".
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030420060435.html
� My most recent email of support for defending against abuse. - Example
of Steve attempting force the moderation team to swallow his rhetoric.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030420090605.html
� closing WA - In recent light of Steve's inability to control the WA
(Worldy Affairs) forum, he joins the bandwagon in getting rid of it
(again).
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030420172213.html
� Apply the axe to WA now ! - Steve becomes impatient with his recent
agreement to disban the WA (Worldy Affairs) forum and tries to press the
issue further.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030422223121.html
� what's going on here, hutch? - An attempt by the moderation team to
intervene on Steve's abuse problems, with a good touch of how Steve's
ego and head have become inflated due to the popularity of MASM32.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030424074935.html
� What's going on here Harold ? - Steve attempts to pull a classical
logical fallacy called a "Red Herring" where Steve blames the rest of
the moderation team to take the focus off of his abusive actions.
Thankfully, the "Red Herring" is quickly curtailed and the original
problem of Steve's abuse is further discussed.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030424213414.html
� Notification to team members. - Steve loses his cool with his ego
taking over completely and outright blames the rest of the moderation
team for the (then) current state of the forums instead addressing his
own personal issues. Perhaps a positive indication of elderly
senility... but insulting and uncalled for, none-the-less.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030427220137.html
� Policy change on illegal postings - More highlights of Steve using his
moderation status as leverage for executing his peronal agendas.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030429014219.html
� What's happened, has atrophy set in ? - More blatent insults toward
the moderation team on behalf of Steve, including remarks against non
native-English speakers. Arrogance++??? Also included is a bit of
information as to the true origins of Steve's animosity toward f0dder.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030430215629.html
� Forum exit link for masm32 site - Steve's abrupt exit strategy, yet he
still manages to blame someone else in the process.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030503034457.html
� I have proposed the following 2 solutions to hutch - Light discussion
about Steve and how MASM32 will be supported after his leaving.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20030503130359.html
� Hutch vs. f0dder - Steve's attempt at "remote control" of the
community he left.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20040328133832.html
� Great hutch vs f0dder war - A public example of the animosity between
Steve and f0dder.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20050505033548.html
� masm(forum) dot com - An intersting read about Steve.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20060328191710.html
� Steve (Hutch)esson - At one time, a statement to ASM Community about
Steve and where I stand in regard to his actions.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20060331023335.html
� Behind the Scenes: ASM Community - A lengthy summary of the events and
actions that lead Steve to leave this community. Recommended reading if
you have the time.
http://www.asmcommunity.net/hutch/20060616074300.html
MikeTrader
is, its about the content. Just voicing opinions is one thing, but
quoting a Zale tirade, linking to deleted threads and posting
declarations of well intentioned powerbasic users that in-advertantly
triggered a rampage of fury like Frank Cox did, is quite another.
"I originally purchased the Powerbasic compiler when it was called
Turbo Basic
1.0 around 1987 when it was first released.... I was banned from the
Powerbasic forums, in fact I was banned from the
entire website. Bob Zale and Powerbasic Inc are not a company or
individual that I care to deal
with. In my opinion, Powerbasic Inc is not operated in an ethical
manner."
http://groups.google.ca/group/comp.lang.basic.powerbasic/browse_thread/thread/448bfaa8fcb30d00/4e05a8b5dab7c36d
The point of this thread is that my personal information was sent
illegally by Zale to Jose Roca. That information was gathered at time
of sale, and makes a mockery ofinternet privcy laws let alone the
supposed powerbasic "privacy" policy stated on the website.
That is not an opinion. That is a fact that anyone can reasonably draw
a conclusion from. That is behavior that should terrify anyone with an
understanding of the expense and destruction identity theft can cause.
I wasted 6mo of my life and lost a valuable investment opportunity
when these scum got credit cards in my name. It can happen to anyone.
The point is, opinions are worthless. To say I think powerbasic is no
good is meaningless. To say you may be subjected to this and this and
this, and show credible people that have been, that's valuable,
important, socially responsible reporting, in the same way we track
child molesters in the US.
If you notice, there are no responses to these accusations (other than
we are all trouble makers hell bent on destroying the powerbasic
product for some unexplained reason) Mr Zale has nothing to say. Not
one supporting link. Nothing other than "HE'S A LIAR" over and over
and over. So if you conduct a smear campaign, you are undermining the
value of the supporting links and statements.
A smear campaign and dirty tricks is what they use. Sinking to that
level, you will never convince anyone of the validity of these
statements. It just looks like a personal vendetta.
Do you think anyone reading the last ten threads here has not got a
good sense of who Hutch is? The pair of you look like you were made
for each other. It goes nowhere. Do you think we need 25 links above
to get that again? I was bored after the first two paragraphs of the
first link. I get it. You could accomplish the same thing with one
link on one thread.
>Why are you kissing his ass?
I am agreeing with him because he is right. Posting personal
information is BS. Sending someones personal information to a third
party in the face of your own privacy policy is BS. When you post
Hutchs personal information you are in effect admitting Zale was
right. He wasn't, and you are not either.
What you are saying, is that when you get really PO'd its okay to do
the very behavior that we are complaining about. It isn't! It doesn't
matter that we do not own a business that sells a product. If its OK
for you to do it, then it makes no sense to claim he should not.
Apart from all that, who really cares where anyone lives or what car
they drive? Does any of that prove that good people are banned from
the powerbasic forum for no reason, or that the full real name rule is
hypocritical nonsense? Of course not.
I totally get how angry and frustrated you are. I have been there.
Angry tirades are what Zale does. If you want to occupy the moral high
ground, you must get beyond that and find substance not gallons of pi$
$ and vinegar.
The funny part is it's not that difficult, because Mr Zale is a
veritable factory of contradictions and hypocracy, as are most
everyone else in his disfunctional support group. (hence this thread).
They all know who he is and yet they have to play along with the
charade of supporting him. There is no need to manufacture any of
this, they churn out tons of it.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lang.powerbasic/browse_thread/thread/a97f779475040f62
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lang.powerbasic/browse_thread/thread/0232cbd61f8ed9ea
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lang.powerbasic/browse_thread/thread/3df48cc4b48df5a5
Did you notice the even Mr Roca is not using his full real name? Why
dont you start by writing a letter to Mr Zale asking him to explain
that or perhaps even ban Mr Jose Roca xxxxxx. If he gets banned one
day after this post, then I guess we will know who is responsible
won't we.
Basic Guy
> > Why are you kissing his ass?
> I am agreeing with him because he is right. Posting personal
> information is BS. Sending someones personal information to a third
> party in the face of your own privacy policy is BS. When you post
> Hutchs personal information you are in effect admitting Zale was
> right. He wasn't, and you are not either.
Hutchesson came here to this newsgroup to piss all over it because Zale
asked him to. Zale thought he had to come here to do some dammage
control and he got burned and scared away. So he had Hutchesson come
here and do it for him.
Any of Hutchesson's "personal" information that I found on the internet
was publically available to anyone who wanted to perform a few simple
searches. That's the difference.
Hutchesson posted his garbage here at his peril. He made himself open
to responses.
If all he wanted to do was to counter your side of the beef you had with
Zale, that's one thing.
But to begin a campaign to be an ass-hole and smear this newsgroup for
no apparent reason, that's bullshit and he deserves to have his
PUBLICALLY-AVAILABLE personal information blazed here as a response.
And he kept doing it! And he seemed to enjoy seeing his personal info
posted here post after post after post. He has no problem with it - so
why do you?
> What you are saying, is that when you get really PO'd its okay
> to do the very behavior that we are complaining about.
Isin't it funny that Steve Hutchesson is a rabid supporter of full-name
disclosure in forum participation, but he posts here using a handle and
not his full name?
I am not the sys-admin or moderator of this newsgroup that is forcing
you to post using your real name or preventing you from participating at
all. I am not selling you a product for which I can impose an embargo
on you for upgrades in the future if I don't like what you post. I am
therefore not performing the very behavior that you have experienced
with Zale and PowerBasic.
> It doesn't matter that we do not own a business that sells a
> product. If its OK for you to do it, then it makes no sense
> to claim he should not.
You want the freedom to post almost anything to the PowerBasic forums,
using any degree of anonymity that you wish. That is exactly what I am
doing here. I am not and have not posted information that was given to
me in confidence.
My posting of Hutchesson's publically-available personal information
does not equate to Zale passing your transactional, commercial, private
information to others.
> Does any of that prove that good people are banned from the
> powerbasic forum for no reason, or that the full real name
> rule is hypocritical nonsense? Of course not.
It was never intended to. I'm surprised you don't understand that.
> Did you notice the even Mr Roca is not using his full real
> name? Why dont you start by writing a letter to Mr Zale
> asking him to explain that or perhaps even ban Mr Jose
> Roca xxxxxx.
If Zale wants to come here and post something, then if I care to I'll
post a response (and I believe that indeed has happened). But otherwise
I've got no cause or inclination to concern myself with this Roca person
and what he's been able to get away with or how Zale might have bent his
own rules for him.
Those facts just reinforce my impression of Zale.
hutch--
You can't win a trick can you ?
Come on, come clean (not in your pants), why are you hiding behind a
bullsh*t phony name while posting links to STOLEN SOFTWARE ? Why won't
you tell us where you STOLE your copy of PB 3.5 from ?
Now come on, have a tantrum or two, jump up and down, threaten to hold
your breath, say the naughty words you have learnt and even more
people will join the PowerBASIC peer forum to escape dipsh*ts like
you.
Mike has good reason to be worried about a cockroach like you as he
wants to keep his identity secret where you have already shown what a
cockroach you are by posting details about me. The difference is it
has been done before by people a lot smarter than you will ever be and
they failed as badly as you have.
You have established the criterion of posting other peoples pesonal
details on the internet and you put people like Mike and Wayne at risk
by doing so. With a buddy like you they could do better, typhoid Mary,
Joe Stalin, Ghengis Khan etc ...
Now be a good little boy and let go of your DICK, pull your pants back
up and pretend that you have behaved yourself because if mummy catches
you being naughty again, she migh just tan your bare arse until you
capitulate, promise to behave and put your foot back in your mouth.
PS: Tread in something horrible first.
MikeTrader
>It was never intended to. I'm surprised you don't understand that.
not by his personal information. You will be judged by that act, and
it doesn't support anything that goes to Zale's treatment of
customers. Its a cheap shot like posting links to warez. We have all
had software stolen and it sucks. You won't gain the ear of anyone
doing that, so its self defeating.
>I am not and have not posted information that was given to me in confidence.
Yes thats true. Let me put it this way.
Yes it is possible to look up someones details, but posting them in
retaliation, is a cheap shot. It smacks of a smear campaign and you
look like the troublemaker they say you are. Now you are playing their
game (which is what they want) except you don't have the credibility
Zale does, so you loose. That's the point.
Zale treats his customers with contempt. Bans them, deletes threads
that ask akward questions (like why does powerbasic use the floating
point processor for dword integers) etc. He accuses these people of
"attacking" causing :"trouble", "stomping" their feet or being
"thugs'. This is a smear campaign. To respond to that, you cannot do
the same thing.
Brilliant developers like Seme Matusevsky, after 255 posts, he was
suddenly gone. Of course he was a trouble maker:
"Tom -- I understand that you are PB's employer. Meanwhile it's not a
reason to name black as white"
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/forums/Forum5/HTML/002427-2.html
"Win 8.01 doesn't see duplicate Alias"
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/forums/Forum4/HTML/011935.html
"Severe errors in assembler in 7.03"
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/forums/Forum4/HTML/010330.html
"Syntax problem"
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/forums/Forum4/HTML/001641.html
"Maximum length of ASCIIZ" (generates GPF)
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/forums/Forum4/HTML/001661.html
(disappears a part of program's text)
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/forums/Forum4/HTML/001922.html
(PB does many things incorrectly for Chr$(128-255) - UCase$ LCase$
UCode$ ACode$.)
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/forums/Forum4/HTML/008174.html
Semen was just too much of a troublemaker... he was always finding the
bugs in powerbasic and embarrassing Mr Zale.
You don't have to look that far to find outright lies that so
thoroughly undermine his credibility, that no one will believe
anything he says. In his response to my complaint to the BBB he says:
"You are not banned from the PowerBASIC Forums. You have never been
banned from the PowerBASIC Forums. - Bob Zale". He also claims he has
the right to refuse to sell me the latest upgrade.
Its ridiculous.
Some good developers make the mistake that a great aviator, Charles
Lindberg made in the 30s. Colonel Lindberg aspired to ideas like "We
can have peace and security only so long as we band together to
preserve that most priceless possession...."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Lindbergh#Racism_and_suspected_Nazi_sympathies
Sounds great doesn't it, unfortunately, it wasn't until the reality of
enforcing Hitlers "rules" (promoted as leading to that) became
apparent, did he realize he had made a mistake in supporting him.
Hitler lied, signed pacts and broke them, murdered anyone that opposed
him, and invaded countries long before the "final solution" for which
he is infamous today.
The allies fought for the freedoms we enjoy (unlike China, Iran and
North Korea, where you will be beaten and jailed for criticizing the
powers that be) The internet is front line of those freedoms, which is
why China hires an army of people to block websites. Freedom of speech
is at the core of democracy, and anyone that seeks to prevent that is
a dictator by definition.
Frank Cox suffered his fate for this thread:
http://www.archivum.info/comp.lang.basic.powerbasic/2008-02/00077/Re:_Banned_from_the_PowerBASIC_forum
because all dictators suffer from major personality disorders like:
narcissism, egomania and delusions of grandeur.
Frank Cox was "eradicated" in the name of forum "peace and security"
on Sat, 09 Feb 2008.
And where are these great developers?
Semen Matusovski - Gone
Dave Navarro - Gone
Lance Edmonds - Gone
Borje Hagsten - Gone
If you want to contribute, file a complaint with the BBB in Florida,
write your story and quote Zale, do some research and find more stuff
like this:
"Technical Writing for Bob Zale, PowerBasic;
Rewrote User Manuals for PowerBasic; Bob Zale never paid me, and I was
very dis-illusioned about him"
http://www.snowcrest.net/soza/TimeLine.htm
The people that support him do understand how far this extends, and
how vile a disservice is being perpetrated on the community. That's
the only thing that is relevant.
MikeTrader
hutch--
> Not sure why the topic keeps changing, so lets try that again.
Easy, people keep changing it.
Now the following is simply fantasy.
====================================
And where are these great developers?
Semen Matusovski - Gone
Dave Navarro - Gone
Lance Edmonds - Gone
Borje Hagsten - Gone
====================================
Simeon ran out of interest.
Dave Navarro went and worked elsewhere but kept coming back to PB for
some time after.
I think Lance just got tired of the workload.
Unfortunately I think Borje has passed away, last I heard he retired
due to serious ill health.
All you are doing here is using the names of people that you barely
ever knew to try and smear both the PB vendor and Jose Roca.
Sooner or later someone will retaliate and post all of your details on
the internet like that imbecile tried to do to me, sad to say for him
is that many others have tried it and failed.
It only takes one person who can be bothered chasing up the details of
your attack on PB at the "BBB in Florida" and all the details will be
made puiblic.
You are flogging a dead horse Mike and nothing will get it going.
hutch--
MikeTrader
This would not affect anything, and only serve to demonstrate the
depths to which powerbasic will go to try to intimidate anyone who
dares to speak out, no matter what name was on the post.
All you are doing here is using the names of people that...
Hmmm well maybe. You are right I don't know why they dissappeared but
am I the only one who finds it odd that after 350 posts Semen just
vanished on Oct 30 2006?
We all know he did not die. In fact I have been assured he is in
communication with PBrs in the community. Lance Stopped posting after
thousands of really helpful answers in Aug 2004. In fact so mysterious
was his departure a thread was started:
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/pbforums/showthread.php?p=216108
Finally he posted a carefully crafted reply, but it his sudden
unannounced departure did not go un-noticed. Don't you think its odd
that a daily fixture and staff member at powerbasic would just vanish,
no announcement, no replacement just poof gone? Perhaps I am just
imagining it...
I heard Borje was doing fine a year or so ago. But I dont know today.
Then there is the Wayne MIA thread... that was ban #??
https://www.powerbasic.com/support/pbforums/showthread.php?t=10382
This ban was categorized as:
" suspension was for a very short period of time... enough to "cool
off". "
I may be wrong, but I suspect a lot of these people got tired of being
given time to "cool off".
>and smear both the PB vendor and Jose Roca.
I've dealt with Mr Zale in some detail. My statements about his
actions are all backed with links to his own words and others
statements. Mr Roca's hands are not clean either, but since you don't
believe me, try another long time PBr:
"I then spent some time on the Jose Roca Software forum in place of
visiting PowerBasic. and learned from some personal emails from Jose
that he had been done badly by Bob with respect to code that he
produced for the new compilers, and Jose also told me of others that
had been mistreated and banned, even cheated in some cases.
But while Jose was a really contributive developer, he and another
that worked with him went through their postings and eliminated every
post I had made there, apparently because Bob turned up the heat on
them for allowing me to be a participant there. See, this stuff is
going on right and left, but as a rule, programmers and developers
want to avoid being drawn into a fray like this, and since they
themselves are not involved, it just seems better to take Bob Zale's
word on these matters, because after all, his product speaks not only
for itself, but for him as well."
"I also mentioned Jose Roca, who according to xxxxxxxx, should have
personal reason to be involved in this matter. But Jose is really
sold on PowerBasic, and wants to keep as harmonious a relationship
with Bob Zale as he can. And I heard, either from xxxxxxx or Jose,
about a particularly sour deal where someone got cheated out of their
due by Bob Zale. No real details in my head, and possibly an
incorrect version anyway, but the name and address appear in the
attached text file (which by the way comes with the product that this
person got ripped off concerning). He might have something to say in
the matter."
"Dave Navarro was a top tech with PowerBasic, but abruptly left and
apparently started his own small business. No admission that he was
gone or reasons as to why ever surfaced, but he never even ventured
back to visit the PowerBasic forums, which was quite unexpected,
because while with PowerBasic, he was a guru there."
"Then there was Lance Edmonds, also a frequent PowerBasic
representative on the forums, and did some really fine work there...
Then suddenly he wasn't there any more, and never heard from again.
There were lots of questions about where he might have gone or why,
because he was the last tech with PowerBasic that really dealt with
anyone's questions, and sorely missed. Over time though, those posts
concerning him and where he might be went away too."
Why do you defend this guy Hutch? You're a smart guy and a brilliant
developer, just like Jose. I just don't get it....
hutch--
To answer your last question first, I have a funny old fashioned sense
of fair and the endless attack on a person who I have known for years
is something I will not accept. Just be reading this clapped out old
newsgroup I pick up that much has gone down between yourself and
PowerBASIC Inc including a BBB legal action in Florida yet I know from
what has been written here that you did not win that complaint. Now I
suggest to you as a friend that you are not pursuing any sense of
justice here but are chasing some form of revenge in the form of a
vendetta against Bob Zale for having failed in the BBB action.
What you are after will never succeed but you put your arse on the
chopping block for no reasonable reason. I bothered to ask a couple of
my friends here in OZ about US law as it is different to ours and they
told me that any legal action of the type you took against PowerBASIC
Inc is now a matter of public record and anyone who is interested can
get a copy of that information and spew your guts from arsehole to
breakfast time all over UseNet, just like that PHUKING imbecile
thought he could damage me with.
Now you have seen this yourself, an idiot hiding behind his bullsh*t
name trying to apply some form of leverage against me by publishing my
name address and phone number but like every other idiot who have ever
tried it, it comes to nothing. Now you know your reason not to be
identified better than I do yet with this information publically
available it will only take one person who is pissed off enough and
you are in trouble.
I have made you the comment before, it is time to move on into your
next language, when you have posted C++ in the masm forum, it shows
that you are on the way to becoming proficient in a language that has
massive backing around the world and which should be able to do the
job for you. You can waste your life and time continuing this vendetta
against people like Bob Zale, Tom Hanlin and even Jose but you risk it
exploding in your face and revealing exactly what you don't want
others to know, your identity.
Regards,
hutch
MikeTrader
Damocles. I think you misunderstand. I only refuse to be forced to use
my full real name day after day, post after post on an internet forum
because the owner needs to feel like he can hit back at people
personally when they inevitably become "troublemakers". Mostly this is
because I don't want potential customers doing a google search and
finding all the code I posted in the source code forum, but also
because there are laws to protect peoples privacy, and US courts take
it very seriously when they are broken.
My email address is available for anyone that has a comment,
miketrader2 at gmail, that doesn't want to post here for some reason,
and many people email me with their stories and accounts. Some I can
post and some I cannot. Posting my personal information here would
just be yet another low blow in retaliation for daring to speak out.
It would accomplish nothing, other than proving beyond a shadow of a
doubt, that Mr Zale has illegally made it available. Is that what you
want to prove?
>I have a funny old fashioned sense of fair and the endless attack on a person
Fair play. That is a great topic. more in a minute.
Endless attack? well I suppose you could describe a handful of threads
over the last two years as an endless attack, but I really only
respond to others questions. This thread sprang from the thread in
Jose's forum:
I want to learn a Basic dialect (the whole picture)
http://forums.purebasic.com/english/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=40027&sid=0f1e3c545fc0bd769ee3b7e858d9046e
Which came from this thread:
I want to learn a Basic dialect
http://www.jose.it-berater.org/smfforum/index.php?topic=3177.0
As you may notice, the thread was locked. Thats not fair. Several
people wanted to say more but couldn't so here we are once again, the
only place on the internet where threads aren't locked, deleted or
banned.
Now I suspect you would argue that the forum admin has the right to do
anything he wants? Its his forum after all right?
Well leaving aside the issue of free speech (over which world wars
have been fought) if the actions of the admin were the result of his
considered opinion alone, then that would be one thing. The problem
is, the playing field is not level.
I complained that I did not understand why the thread had been closed
and was told it was "boring to read.", but also received the following
explanation:
"Why should you understand it? Do you not realize that, legally, the
owners of these forums can be held accountable for anything we post?
A thread about another programming language started innocently enough
but soon degenerated into a tirade of slanderous comments about the
author of the other language. This thread was not deleted (as back
then the board admins would not delete any thread). The author of the
other language then started legal proceedings etc.
Because of this I am surprised that Fred did not delete your thread
immediately. You seem to forget that the admins of the forums can be
held legally responsible for anything you may post and venting off
about Bob Zale will probably make Fred feel somewhat ill at ease
considering what happened previously."
See thats not fair, because no one can complain about anything without
having the thread shut down. I don't think that making slanderous
statements about anyone is acceptable, but if you can substantiate the
statement, then it's not slander. I don't call anyone gay, use bad
language, post their personal information or make racial slurs. I
post MY EXPERIENCE and the statements of others.
I certainly wouldn't call anyone "crabby"
"Open source has taken over the c and cpp development so future
compatability does not depend on a crabby old man in Florida looking
at retirement.
http://www.jose.it-berater.org/smfforum/index.php?topic=1129.15
I would post my experience with this person and paste the emails so
that the reader could conclude what adjective best describes that
person. Thats fair.
If the response to a thread is a threat of legal action against the
forum admin or disclosure of personal information, then thats not
fair, is it.
When Jose wrote to me and claimed that he had did not know my name
before Mr Zale sent it to him, I posted that in this thread, because
thats fair. I admitted that I may have been wrong. Because thats fair.
I would love to read a rebuttal from anyone to these posts, yet no one
has anything to say. Why is that?
Please tell me how I can address the issues I have raised that is more
fair than a place where ANYONE can respond? I think fair is important
too and if you have know of a more level playing field where an open
discussion can be held, please let me know.
I have made several attempts at addressing issues with Mr Zale,
including an olive branch
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.basic.powerbasic/browse_thread/thread/fc8fd730f010387a?hl=en#
He is just not interested.
"I did hear that while everyone else at PowerBasic worked at their
assigned tasks, Bob Zale sat in his office and used search tools to
find every reference to himself, the company, or to PowerBasic that
could be located on the internet. It was not his goal to leave only
the good posts in place, he wanted them all gone. The reason being,
that if there was nothing there, he didn't have to worry about it any
more. But even if a post started off favorable towards PowerBasic,
his concern was that some negatives were likely to take roost. I
mean, if someone likes something, then others may speak up about some
of the negatives. And that meant if you tried to prune away just the
bad posts, your efforts at censorship might become too apparent. See,
you have to remember that while Bob Zale acts in very negative ways,
he still has a keen programmer's mind to front for what he does. He's
not going to let something like that get by"
Does that strike you as fair play?
Since I doubt anyone is going to rebut that, let me do it; "its a
second hand exaggeration" well maybe, "It's totally and completely
untrue", possible but unlikely, "it's a smear campaign by
troublemaker" no, its an email from a banned powerbasic user who could
care less about powerbasic any more.
So if fair play is really the objection to my posts, then I still
don't understand your loyalty, because it's us users that don't get
fair play. Is it possible that you respect the product so much that
you are willing to overlook the actions of the man? I would
respectfully suggest that is a mistake and is actually perpetuating
the problem.
In WW1 Baron von Richthofen the "Red Baron" (80 confirmed air combat
victories) was shot down and killed behind enemy lines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manfred_von_Richthofen#Burial
He was given a burial by the opposing nation with full military
honors. I feel you are a brilliant ace just fighting on the wrong
side.
I appear to have said all I want to say in this thread, so unless
anyone would like to debate the substance of anything here, I am done.
hutch--
Step back and have a look at what is going on, you both refuse to
abide by their forum rules AND expect that they will change the rules
just for you. Your attack on Jose is just as badly aimed, no-one
including me will allow you to spew sh*t at Bob Zale from a venue that
they are responsible for and your attempts to use other people as a
vehicle to attack Bob Zale is unprofessional conduct.
Now as far as any threats, accusing me of the consequences of your own
actions is a mistake, it was YOU, not ME who made all of your details
available to various agencies in Florida and I have found out this
much about Florida state law, you had to make the compliants using
your real name, address and contact details so it is YOU who have made
all of your details available on the public record. I don't personally
give a flying PHUK about you not using your real name, I have been on
the internet for a long time but with your vendetta against Bob Zale,
you are putting your own arse on the chopping block for no gain apart
from a little spite for having lost these legal actions against him.
Now the best offer I can make you is you are still welcome at the MASM
forum as it has other methods around behaviour problems but be warned,
I am nothing like as tolerant or gracious as Bob Zale and if anyone
starts any nonsense, they go out the door faster than Haley's comet
because our members are generally professionals who spend what spare
time they have helping out people who are learning 32 bit assembler
and they will not suffer anyone using the place as a vehicle for their
own vendettas.
Its time for you to move on and the C++ you have been learning is a
competent tool if you make the effort to learn it and it has a very
high acceptance level around the world. We all have to keep learning
new stuff just to keep up and I fail to understand why you keep
wasting time on such a foolish copurse of action when you could put
the time into something you make a buck out of. When you get
proficient enough at C++ you can start learning Microsoft assembler
which is part of the Microsoft suite of tools and write world class
code if you need to target bottlenecks and speed critical code.
Regards and I hope you can get in front.
hutch
Happy Trails
> I am done.
Thank fucking geezuz for that!