powerbasic swallows IBasic?
MikeTrader
in a teacup, the financial ruin of a developer cannot. First the
facts:
Tom Hanlin used to work for powerbasic
In 2005 Tom Hanlin purchased IBasic
Tom Hanlin recruited others including Michael H to develop for him
Tom Hanlin mysteriously and suddenly disappeared one day leaving
developers unpaid
The IBasic user group called the police to see if he was OK ( he was)
Finally IBasic ceased to be, and the website http://www.pyxia.com/
vanished.
Some people were left unpaid and posted in community forums:
Tom has reappeared on another forum. I am only posting this because I
know there are still many of you he owes money or product to...
Brice Manuel May 16, 2008, 08:01:22 PM
http://www.codingmonkeys.com/index.php?topic=1692.0
Mr Hanlins response on May 16th, 2008, 11:44 PM was:
I do not have a company site, nor do I do distribution.
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/pbforums/showthread.php?p=285273#post285273
So It seems that powerbasic might in fact own IBasic as rumored
especially since Mr Zale went to the trouble of announcing that Mr
Hanlin has returned to powerbasic:
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/pbforums/showthread.php?t=33262
The thread proved something of an embarrassment and is now deleted it
seems, but quoted here:
http://www.allbasic.info/forum/index.php?topic=748.msg2527
along with some heavy handed attempts to suppress the mere mention of
it.
So why all the fuss?
Well it seems some good people got badly hurt, like for example
Michael H, who was upset enough to protest that Mr Hanlin will not
return messages. The powerbasic Forum Admin (Mr Zale) deleted this
thread.
This did not go un-noticed in the community and a thread was begun on
the ThinBasic forum simply titled "IBasic" that begun: "Michael, Looks
like your post has been promptly removed, however i get a copy of it
by e-mail..."
http://community.thinbasic.com/index.php?topic=2861.0
This thread was closed by the ThinBasic forum Admin Eros Olmi. In
another thread I petitioned Eros to reopen the thread arguing that the
effects of getting ripped off by un-scroupulous developers can be as
devastating as compiler bug that sinks your project. The community
should be informed and the reputation of these individuals tracked as
any online venue like ebay does.
Eros reopened the thread and I asked Michael H to clearly state what
had happened.
Re: IBasic
Reply #13 Aug 31st at 10:30:40 pm
Hi Mike,
I was talking about Tom Hanlin III. My post was on the PowerBasic
support forum but was quickly deleted by Bob Zale, like nothing
happened.
T.H. was an important part of PowerBasic I think before. I'm not sure
if he worked for them but I think he did. He bought Pyxia around 2005
when its former owner sold it. After the former owner left the PYXIA
community, T.H. asked me if I wanted to maintain and develop the 2D
game pack of IBasic Pro. We made an agreement and I was promised to be
payed for it. I did my job, enhanced the command pak by 100%,
delivered and supported it. Then out of the blue, T.H. disappeared
from the PYXIA site. Then the support forum got hacked, and we thought
it was an inside job. Never the less, some others and me did our best
to keep the PYXIA community alive in a new place now called
codingmonkeys.com , hoping T.H. would come back soon. But he didn't.
Someone even asked the police at the time to help, because we thought
something happened to him. We got told, that he was very fine, just
denied to have anything to do with PYXIA. So he dumped the whole PYXIA
stuff and he never dared to contact me or others that were helping
him. And now I saw a "Please welcome T.H. back at PYXIA" topic in the
PB forums. And there I had my say.
We were joking around before, if PB was behind PYXIA case, as it was a
competitor to PB at the time. It was just joking. But now T.H. is back
at PB, you can certainly think twice about everything. Neverless, he
didn't fullfill his part of the agreement, that's why I hate him. He
screwed me, point blank.
I'm not sure if IBasic Pro is still sold, but I heard that it is.
Btw. aren't you working for PB? I got the imagination somehow.
Michael
He went on to inform the community that he was on the verge of
personal bankruptcy, so I asked why Mr Zale delete the thread and if
he had been banned. The next day,Monday Morning Sept 1st, the thread
was gone and the forum had a new member:
[IMG]http://i32.tinypic.com/mcgfns.jpg[/IMG]
Coincidence perhaps?
Next I get a terse email from Eros informing me "we have spent a lot
of time creating this place and I cannot permit you to destroy it" and
then Michael H "I don't want to talk about this PYXIA and PB thing
anymore"!
Mr Zale, since you deleted the IBasic thread on your forum, it is
abundantly apparent that you are behind the deletion of the thread on
the ThinBasic forum and the sudden change of heart of Eros Olmi and
his friend Michael H (I hope you are not going to try to deny this)
As a member of the development community, I would expect you be as
outraged as we are, and rapidly distance yourself, and powerbasic,
from these kinds of people. Perhaps you would also care to explain WHY
you have hired someone that has such a questionable reputation and
feel compelled to go to such lengths to cover it up? How can consumers
expect fair treatment when you hire people that operate with this kind
of deception and dishonesty?
4 years ago IBasic sold for $50k:
http://www.purebasic.fr/english/viewtopic.php?p=94746&highlight=&sid=6da425f3fd3a19ac3262018b2b6363a2
an inflation adjusted figure would be around $70k, so don’t you think
you could send a little to the guys that actually did the work on this
product?
Do you screen your employees at all? Since IBasic appears to have been
swallowed by powerbasic, perhaps you should step up to the plate and
get Michael paid. That's what a responsible member of the development
community would do.
Why are you not more concerned about the actions of one of your
employees? We are left to draw our own conclusions about why you are
not concerned about being victimized yourself by such a person... and
since his actions reflect directly on the reputation of powerbasic,
perhaps you could explain why you find it necesary to delete the
IBasic thread that Michael H posted to in the powerbasic forum?
Bob Zale
others) have the right to distance ourselves from thugs. That said,
both you and Wayne are free to rejoin the PowerBASIC Forums at any
time using your real names instead of a false identity. However,
given the abundance of false information, you will be moderated
closely.
Tom Hanlin is a very honorable man. He's not given to lie and slander
such as we've heard here. We're very pleased that he has agreed to
rejoin PowerBASIC. Tom Hanlin does not owe your "Michael H" a cent.
They discussed the likelihood of a revenue sharing arrangement for an
add-on product, but none were ever sold. No sales -->> No royalties.
The IBASIC project just did not succeed. That happens in business
sometimes.
Your slander is troubling. I'll have no need for a further discussion
with you.
Bob Zale
PowerBASIC Inc.
MikeTrader
dissapears without trace leaving people feeling outraged that they
have not been paid.
>Tom Hanlin does not owe your "Michael H" a cent.
Well then he must have misunderstood the agreement? Michael H made it
very clear in the statement above, that he had worked on this product
and not been paid (as did others in the link above).
> They discussed the likelihood of a revenue sharing arrangement for an add-on product, but none were ever sold.
Oh, how convenient.
No sales -->> No royalties.
Riiiiight... I wonder how many times some poor developer go that line
instead of a check
> Tom Hanlin is a very honorable man.
Really? Do you have something to back that up other than the face
value of your statement? (which is worth exactly nothing) because
after what I have read so far, that's not the conclusion I would come
to. If this were ebay, I doubt he would not be selling much with that
kind of feedback!
>We're very pleased that he has agreed to rejoin PowerBASIC.
This is an astounding statement after the events I have detailed. If
you are so pleased, then why are you rushing around deleting posts and
threatening admins to do same when mere subject of Mr Hanlins
activities is dicussed?
> He's not given to lie and slander such as we've heard here.
Great then let's all participate in a thread on the powerbasic forum
about his activities. He can have his say and defend his actions in
front of the whole world and we'll clear this "misunderstanding" up
right away.
> Reputable Forum Managers (Jose Roca, Eros Olmi, myself, and others) have the right to distance ourselves from thugs.
Well it's interesting that you mention these Jose and Eros, who are
indeed reputable developers. Unfortunatly they lack the stomach for a
showdown at the OK corral with you because they have a lot invested in
powerbasic.
You may be able to bully them into deleting inconvenient threads and
even banning me, but you will NEVER be able to contain the truth as
you desire. Your behaviour is that of a tyrant. These Admins and all
the others that sit quitely on the sidelines, have yet to realize,
that the only way to stop a tyrant is to band together and say ENOUGH!
MikeTrader
last week, I will address this here.
I couldn't follow your logic that *I* am destroying you great work on
ThinBasic forum I'm afraid, but I hope you can follow this logic:
Where I come from, you look out for your friends. That means when they
are attacked or hurt, you come to their aid. Michael H *IS* your
friend. He has clearly demonstrated this by throwing himself under a
bus in the face of pressure from Mr Zale to sweep the Tom Hanlin
scandal under the mat.
When Michael posted his grievance in the powerbasic forum, IBasic
thread, it was deleted. Since we all know that NOTHING happens in the
powerbasic forum without the direct involvment of Mr Zale, that means
Mr Zale is protecting Mr Hanlin in his mistreatment of Michael H, and
therefore logically is *NOT* your friend.
As Powerbasic circles the wagons to try and make this scandall
dissapear, you should be jumping up and down defending your friend,
Michael H. Your forum should be a safe haven for your friend where
truth and honor prevail.
Michael H, your friend, has lost an estimated $10k. He has posted on
your forum that he is on the verge of personal bankruptcy as a result
of Tom Hanlin not paying him for work. This is the time when his
friends should support him, not dessert him. As everyone shrinks into
the woodwork while hurricane Bob strikes land, you should be out there
rallying people to his defence.
Am I making sense Eros? This is what's called a defining moment...
you either define it, or IT defines you.
Instead, on Monday morning, you delete the thread and mysteriously
Michael H suddenly reverses direction, telling me he does not want to
dicuss this matter any further! Since Mr Zale has already deleted
Michaels thread in his forum, it is obvious to anyone he has now
brought pressure to bear on you.
Your site does not need approval from Mr Zale or anyone else for that
matter. It is a great work and it stands on its own. If you have been
threatened with expulsion or being cast out of favor, you should be
circling the wagons with us to beat back the agressor, not prostrating
yourself and forcing your friends to take a bullet for you.
I didn't invent this scandal, I didn't start it, I am not even
involved in it, so making me the cause of damage to your site is more
a statement about you, especially after I wrote "out of respect to
Eros, I will not go into this here". That, and the contributions I
have made to your site are statements of friendship, not agression.
In the IBasic thread I was asking questions. When Michael H asked if I
was a powerbasic employee, I simply said er no, never. I did not
elaborate endlessly about the outrageous treatment I have endured at
the hands of Mr Zale, I did not enumerate all the times I have been
banned and had my reasonable threads regarding compiler issues and
support deleted. I did not even go into the details of how my personal
information was sent Jose Roca who then immediatly banned me from his
forum under pressure from Mr Zale at the exact moment I was banned
from the powerbasic site.
What you fail to realize, is that each time you allow this to occur
you are, by definition, ENABLING it. Fear, threats and terror are the
hallmarks of dictators like Musolini, Stalin and Saddam. In 1979
Saddam held a bath party meeting to celebrate his election as
president. During this taped meeting he denounced 66 men as traitors
(these were mostly people that may or may not have agreed with his
election). They were taken out one by one as their names were read,
while the others sat in their seats shaking with fear.
Then Saddam read list of party faithfull, the brown-nosers who's
loyalty he wanted to ensure. After he named these people, he announced
that their reward was to personally shoot the "traitors" in the head,
which they did, one by one, the next day.
This is a technique Stalin used. It's as brilliant as it is demonic
becuase it makes the party faithfull COMPLICIT in the crime of the
leader, thus ensuring their loyalty. Once you pull that trigger (read
deleted the IBasic thread) you are as guilty as the agressor who
commanded it.
Eros, there may be no one else willing to say this, but I hope you
realize, you just shot your friend in the head.
Eros
Story is a private matter between Michael H. and Tom H.
Both are adults and both know how and if to go on. They will decide by
themselves.
I respect all the opinions only when they are clearly genuine and
moved by the specific facts.
In this case you seems moved not by this specific Michael/Tom story
but it seems you are getting this story as an excuse to go on with an
old crusade you have started against who you consider a tyrant. That's
the main point and that's why I decided not to follow you "logic".
If you have this in mind, go if you like, do it, but do not try use
other's situations for your matters.
For me Michael H. is a great friend. He generously developed many
thinBasic parts for free, just moved by programming passion. He is a
really valuable programmer.
I will always try to help him if he needs. But because he is an
intelligent man, he knows that in this specific case there is no help
I can offer.
On Mr. Zale, for me he is a great man. He is fighting every day to
give all of us great products. He is fighting every day in order to
protect his product and his reputation in the big jungle of computer
programming where many many competitors died in the past leaving their
customer base alone. He did this during all those years and thanks to
this we can still benefit and use his great products. Can you imagine
how many companies would be happy if PB would close? And do you expect
Mr. Zale does not protect his house from persons attacking his garden
every day with ridiculous excuses or for little private matters?
Stop for a while instead of going on and on. Re-think and reconsider
all. Is it worth to go on?
Been able to change strategy and/or ideas is a great sign of
intelligence.
PS: this will be my last an only reply.
MikeTrader
That ACTION denotes support of Mr Hanlin. His statement in this thread
that Mr Hanlin is a "very honorable man" is yet another strong
statement of support in the face of evidence like:
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/pbforums/showthread.php?p=285273#post285273
"Since you are the one I paid, that is why I am taking it up with you.
And you were the person illegally distributing two of my software
titles. On this very forum you posted in response to questions about
your site you were selling products from, so denying it was you is
rather futile. You are the person I made the money order out to and
sent it to. I look forward to a PM from you so we can work out a
payment arrangement for you. Now that you have decided to reappear, I
am sure many of your other spurned customers will be making similar
inquiries. However, this isn't really the place for it."
Even you have expressed dislike for MR Hanlin:
"I do not know him other than reading his old posts in PB forum and I
found him always rude (at least) or too much full of himself. But I
followed his story in IBasic (I bought IBasic in that period) and I
didn't like it at all. The way he left IBasic showed no respect for
customers and user base, no respect for other's work, no respect for
people passion. Just one post in IBasic forum telling "Hey I will not
in the position to support IBasic anymore" (for whatever reason) would
be enough. But nothing, he just disappeared. Maybe we do not know full
details, maybe."
http://www.allbasic.info/forum/index.php?topic=748.msg2527
> Both are adults and both know how and if to go on. They will decide by themselves.
That's a little nieve. Practically recourse does anyone on the verge
of bankruptcy living in Europe have?
The only place that he can apply pressure is in community forums and
we should be supporting him or at the very least creating a place
where Mr Hanlin can respond and counter these charges. Mr Hanlin has
yet to utter word one on this subject anywhere on the internent. That
is very damning in and of itself. Instead Mr Zale is rushing about
intimidating Admin's and deleting threads faster than you can click.
> In this case you seems moved not by this specific Michael/Tom story
> but it seems you are getting this story as an excuse to go on with an
> old crusade you have started against who you consider a tyrant.
How long are you going to bury your head in the sand? These kinds of
actions are hurting good people who work long hours with powerbasic
only to find they have been severed from the community they rely upon
for some ridiculously trivial transgression.
> go if you like, do it, but do not try use other's situations for your matters.
I am simply reporting. If a newspaper reporter reports on the tabacco
industry spiking cigarettes with nicotene and has personally
contracted lung cancer, does that make his reporting invalid? If he
reports on others dying of lung cancer does that mean he is "using"
others stories for his own case?
The tabacco industy is guilty of spiking cigarettes and we should ALL
be concerned about this. For years this was kept secret by the
industry until a whistle blower went on national TV. (60minutes,
declined the story because the tobacco industry threatened a lawsuit
which GE (the parent company) realized could bankrupt them to defend
on appeal.) It took one brave sole to stand up and say ENOUGH to
topple the Tobacco industry.
> he knows that in this specific case there is no help I can offer.
Nonsense. You can undelete the thread and help embarras Tom Hanlin
into responding or paying Michael H what he is owed. Thats the bare
minimum. Beyond that you can write to Mr Zale and demand a full
accounting of his emplyees conduct.
>Re-think and reconsider all. Is it worth to go on?
I remain banned from the PB forum and Jose Roca's forum. Mr Zale
refuses to sell me the current upgrade despite my attempts at
resolution with third party agencies and even threads offering an
olive branch.
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.basic.powerbasic/browse_thread/thread/fc8fd730f010387a?hl=en#
I submit that it is Mr Zale who is going on and on here. Just reading
this Wikipedia nonsense you can see that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:PowerBASIC
> Mr. Zale, for me he is a great man.
Really? then why does he need to resort to intimidation, threats,
bannings and thread deletions? These are NOT the hallmarks of great
men. A great man encourages free speach not supress it. A great man
turns the other cheek and looks for ways to resolve issues not create
them. A great man does not need to ban people and cause drama to feel
powerful. A great man does send emails like:
"So be it. I hope you have some extra cash to defend litigation in
Florida. Robert S. Zale, President PowerBASIC Inc."
to try to get inconvenient material deleted.
http://www.allbasic.info/forum/index.php?topic=748.msg2527
Even you know the consequences of raising inconvenient subjects in the
PB forum:
"I will not post any comment in PB forum because not worth. I just
hope Mr. Zale knows what he his doing. We will see."
http://www.allbasic.info/forum/index.php?topic=748.msg2527
And do you expect Mr. Zale does not protect his house from persons
attacking his garden every day with ridiculous excuses or for little
private matters?
Attack? what attack is that exactly? I am asking for the truth. I have
publicly challenged Mr Zale and you to undelete those threads and let
everyone have their say INCLUDING Michael H and Tom Hanlin. That is an
attack?
Perhaps you mean the attack that Wayne described here:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lang.powerbasic/browse_thread/thread/e1a056169a01cb21#
Wayne has been "attacking" PB for 9 years with his brilliant hard work
and source code contributions.
Or perhaps you are referring to small issues with PB like its odd way
of dealing with DWORDs documented here:
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/pbforums/showthread.php?t=35407
Do you have any idea how many people have been banned for these kind
of "attacks"? Where are all the great developers I was learning from
for all these years?
Was Semen for example banned for this:
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/forums/Forum4/HTML/008174.html
(PB does many things incorrectly for Chr$(128-255) - UCase$ LCase$
UCode$ ACode$.)
Or perhaps his disputing the facts with Mr Hanlin:
"Tom -- I understand that you are PB's employer. Meanwhile it's not a
reason to name black as white"
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/forums/Forum5/HTML/002427-2.html
Either way he is gone, along with many GREAT developers for
"attacking" powerbasic. Even people that were just minding their own
business get accused of "attacking" powerbasic if the wind blows the
wrong way even you know this:
"Mr Zale, Mr Zale. I think I know what you mean. I've learned with my
skin it is better to remain in my "area". Dealing with him is a no
way
activity and every word one can tell (write) can hurt his ...
susceptibility."
- Thomas Gohel
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lang.powerbasic/browse_thread/thread/448bfaa8fcb30d00#
http://www.rhinocerus.net/forum/lang-basic-powerbasic/210983-banned-powerbasic-forum.html
- Brad and Stephane Richard
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lang.powerbasic/browse_thread/thread/f8d8f8b657f53512#
- Eric
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lang.powerbasic/browse_thread/thread/9b1e6a518f75d7e5#
- Wayne Diamond
2002 https://www.powerbasic.com/support/pbforums/showthread.php?t=10382
2009 http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lang.powerbasic/browse_thread/thread/e1a056169a01cb21#
- Lance
https://www.powerbasic.com/support/pbforums/showthread.php?t=10382
- Olav
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lang.powerbasic/browse_thread/thread/819543e242f71b6c#
- Roger Garstang
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/pbforums/showthread.php?p=321512
- Donald Darden
"I have also experienced firsthand the anger Bob unleashes if he
thiniks you have crossed him or sullied his name or product. And he
never appologizes or admits that he night have got it wrong or
misunderstood what you said."
http://www.jose.it-berater.org/smfforum/index.php?topic=1367.5%3Bwap2
- John Spikowski
- Borge Hansten
- Semen Matusevsky
- Vladimir Shulakov
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/forums/Forum7/HTML/002492.html
- Chuck Hicks
- Judson McClendon
http://www.rhinocerus.net/forum/lang-basic-powerbasic/210992-about-recent-discussions-events-i-read-here.html
- Antoni Gual
http://forum.qbasicnews.com/index.php?topic=8321.60
- Paul Dwyer
- Steven Pringels
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/forums/Forum4/HTML/014017.html
- Gene Warner
- Marc Geurd
http://www.archivum.info/comp.lang.basic.powerbasic/2008-02/00103/Re:_Banned_from_the_PowerBASIC_forum
- Frank Cox
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Comp/comp.lang.basic.powerbasic/2008-02/msg00008.html
http://www.freebasic.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=92041
The list goes on and on. Read it and weep. powerbasic may be a fine
product but that does not excuse this. Good people are getting burned
and it is all our duty to say this must STOP!
You can begin by un-deleting the IBasic thread and allowing everyone
to participate.
MikeTrader
"Tom has reappeared on another forum. I am only posting this because
I know there are still many of you he owes money or product to. Since
it is interstate (even international) commerce statute of limitations
should not apply. If you are interested, now is the time to refile
complaints with the Attorney General for his state, the FCC since this
was conducted online, and if you sent something via snail mail, the
postal inspector. Since it is interstate (even international) it is
Federal and filing complaints with the US Attorney General's office
could also help."
http://www.codingmonkeys.com/index.php?topic=1692.0
"ibasic was created by Paul Turley who sold the business to someone
called Tom Hanlin, now to keep it simple tom basically did nothing
with the business and it headed over to business heaven and upset a
lot of the community, licenses been sold for a unsupported program,
deals done with community members and not been upheld ect ect, now
tom has rejoined the powerbasic some people would like to get there
hands on him."
http://www.codingmonkeys.com/index.php?topic=1949.0
(quoted here in case yet more threads dissapear)
"Tom Hanlin is a very honorable man.... We're very pleased that he
has agreed to
rejoin PowerBASIC."
Bob Zale
PowerBASIC Inc.
A simply astounding statement. Between you guys and the software
pirates, it's hard to figure out who is worse.