Two new anti-GW hysteria articles in latest issue of Science debunk GW theories
raylopez99
that go against your dogma, eh 'tards?
The latest issue of Science (vol. 315, 9 Feb 2007) has two articles
that go against the grain of the AGW hysteria:
1. "Picoplankton Do Some Heavy Liftying" by Richard T. Barber,
explains (a paper by Richardson and Jackson, in the same issue) how
traditional models (of the kind used by AGW'er 'tard computer
simulations) ignore so called "picoplankton" as too small to
contribute to carbon sequesterization. But in fact these picoplankton
are a major way for sequestering carbon.
2. "Rapid Changes in Ice Discharge from Greenland Outlet Glaciers" by
Howat, Joughin and Scambos explain how: "Satellite measurements show
that the discharge from the two major outlet glaciers of the Greenland
Ice Sheeet doubled in 2004 but then DECREASED abruptly in
2006" (emphasis added).
Oh well, back to the hysterical drawing boards 'tards.
RL
Lloyd
> You do believe in science don't you? Even when it tells you things
> that go against your dogma, eh 'tards?
>
> The latest issue of Science (vol. 315, 9 Feb 2007) has two articles
> that go against the grain of the AGW hysteria:
>
> 1. "Picoplankton Do Some Heavy Liftying" by Richard T. Barber,
> explains (a paper by Richardson and Jackson, in the same issue) how
> traditional models (of the kind used by AGW'er 'tard computer
> simulations) ignore so called "picoplankton" as too small to
> contribute to carbon sequesterization. But in fact these picoplankton
> are a major way for sequestering carbon.
>
Then the fact that CO2 is up 36% is even more serious -- here's an
additional sink and all the sinks together still can't halt the
increase.
> 2. "Rapid Changes in Ice Discharge from Greenland Outlet Glaciers" by
> Howat, Joughin and Scambos explain how: "Satellite measurements show
> that the discharge from the two major outlet glaciers of the Greenland
> Ice Sheeet doubled in 2004 but then DECREASED abruptly in
> 2006" (emphasis added).
>
And 2 glaciers is all Greenland has, right?
raylopez99
> On Feb 20, 7:33 am, "raylopez99" <raylope...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > You do believe in science don't you? Even when it tells you things
> > that go against your dogma, eh 'tards?
>
> > The latest issue of Science (vol. 315, 9 Feb 2007) has two articles
> > that go against the grain of the AGW hysteria:
>
> > 1. "Picoplankton Do Some Heavy Liftying" by Richard T. Barber,
> > explains (a paper by Richardson and Jackson, in the same issue) how
> > traditional models (of the kind used by AGW'er 'tard computer
> > simulations) ignore so called "picoplankton" as too small to
> > contribute to carbon sequesterization. But in fact these picoplankton
> > are a major way for sequestering carbon.
>
> Then the fact that CO2 is up 36% is even more serious -- here's an
> additional sink and all the sinks together still can't halt the
> increase.
>
No, not if we learn to feed the plankton. The opposite of not feeding
the troll.
> > 2. "Rapid Changes in Ice Discharge from Greenland Outlet Glaciers" by
> > Howat, Joughin and Scambos explain how: "Satellite measurements show
> > that the discharge from the two major outlet glaciers of the Greenland
> > Ice Sheeet doubled in 2004 but then DECREASED abruptly in
> > 2006" (emphasis added).
>
> And 2 glaciers is all Greenland has, right?
>
No, but a decrease is not good for your cause.
BTW the latest Science has a special edition on GW--and to show you
how simplistic it is, the lead editorial mentions that flawed Stern
report (which as per the Cato Institute uses two different and
contradictory discount rates to value money streams--an elementary
blunder).
GW is trendy--hope you, if you are the real professor Lloyd Parker,
are getting your share of the grant gravy train.
RL
Roger Coppock
> > 2. "Rapid Changes in Ice Discharge from Greenland Outlet Glaciers" by
> > Howat, Joughin and Scambos explain how: "Satellite measurements show
> > that the discharge from the two major outlet glaciers of the Greenland
> > Ice Sheeet doubled in 2004 but then DECREASED abruptly in
That is what the ice sheeet did, but
what did the ice sheet do?
> > 2006" (emphasis added).
>
> And 2 glaciers is all Greenland has, right?
And two years is the entire history of climate
change on that mini-continent, right?
It's good that Ray is attempting to read "Science,"
but he needs to work on his analysis more. (His
spelling, too.)
raylopez99
> It's good that Ray is attempting to read "Science,"
> but he needs to work on his analysis more. (His
> spelling, too.)
Not only do I read Science Roger, but I vote too, as a member in good
standing. And I'm voting for the AGW Sceptic slate.
BTW this week's Science has a special section on alternative energy--
quite good. We need more energy as the population hopefully goes from
6 to 9 billion over the next 50 years.
RL
Carbon Criminal Polluters
We learned from 1979 through 2000 that people would install PV at 25%
growth rate, doubling the installed quantity every 3 years.
We learned the price went down 19% for PV every time we doubled the
installed base.
We learned that if we projected these trends out into the future that
PV would take over as the whole electricity supplier no later than 35
years from now, in the year 2042.
We learned that our national electric bill would be $9,106,650,000,000
just paying the same monthly bills every month for 35 years, changing
nothing, doing nothing different than we do today.
We learned that switching to PV at an accelerated pace, we could save
$5,392,521,000,000 in that 35 years by not paying monthly electric
bills.
Global Warming Has Been Cancelled by H2-PV
A 25% growth of PV per year, as happened from 1979 through 2000, until
Bush crowd took over, projected into the future shows three FREEDOM
DAYS.
A 19% price decrease every time the installed PV base doubles, as
happened from 1979 through 2000, until the Bush crowd took over, shows
the price of each FREEDOM DAY. Doubling occurs every 3 years at 25%
compounded annual growth.
Spreadsheets are online to provide the details of the increases and
decreases from any arbitrary price point chosen by changing the master
price cell.
http://hydrogentruth.info/spreadsheets/scenario_2b.html
http://hydrogentruth.info/spreadsheets/scenario_2b.sxc
http://hydrogentruth.info/spreadsheets/scenario_2b.xls
FREEDOM DAY #1 is the date that the PV watts installed equals the
whole country consumption of electricity. Other sources are still
needed for off-hours power.
FREEDOM DAY #2 is the date that the PV doubles and the extra PV goes
to storing energy at 50% round trip efficiency or better, like power
is now stored in pumped reservoirs at 50% efficiency electricity to
electricity round trip.
FREEDOM DAY #3 is the date when PV surplus is sufficient to power all
electricity and make hydrogen sufficient to fuel all 200,000,000 cars
and light trucks in America.
THE COST OF NOTHING is also computed. This is the costs of paying for
electricity at the meter forever and ever, changing NOTHING, doing
NOTHING.
http://hydrogentruth.info/page_4a2.html
Freedom Day
http://hydrogentruth.info/page_4a3.html
The Cost of Nothing
DO THE MATH
$10,667,790,000,000 Utility Bills
-$10,031,886,000,000 H2-PV
========
$635,904,000,000 H2-PV Savings
That's $635,904,000,000
(BILLION with a B)
Do it YOUR WAY, Nothing, and spend $10.668 TRILLION, just get
electricity and more bills every month forever.
Do it the H2-PV RIGHT WAY and get all your electricity and all your
car fill-ups, plus save $635 BILLION for other things. Only pay $200
per person once every 20 years thereafter for replacement PV.
http://hydrogentruth.info/Villains/Debunking_Robert_Zubri ...
Store 10,000,000,000 kilograms of Hydrogen in a nationwide pipeline
grid by just increasing the pressure one atmosphere (14.5 psi).
http://hydrogentruth.info/page_07a.html
Hydrogen Pipelines
More spreadsheets:
http://hydrogentruth.info/spreadsheets/
Eric Swanson
raylo...@yahoo.com says...
>
>On Feb 20, 11:46 am, "Roger Coppock" <rcopp...@adnc.com>
>
>
>> It's good that Ray is attempting to read "Science,"
>> but he needs to work on his analysis more. (His
>> spelling, too.)
>
>Not only do I read Science Roger, but I vote too, as a member in good
>standing. And I'm voting for the AGW Sceptic slate.
OK, Loopy Ray, give us a list of these AGW Skeptics.
>BTW this week's Science has a special section on alternative energy--
>quite good. We need more energy as the population hopefully goes from
>6 to 9 billion over the next 50 years.
Same old Loopy Ray. That was last week's issue, (9 February).
I thought there were some glaring errors in the energy discussion, like, the
focus on PV electricity instead of low temperature thermal, which is cost
competetive in today's enegy market. Then, there's that old spagetti graph
on page 797 , you know, the same one that's been around for about 30 years.
The energy flows ignore the primary component of solar energy, which is
captured by plants and produces all our agricultural output. Only the
industrially important energy sources are shown. The result is a bias toward
energy sources which can be centrally controlled by large companies....
This week's issue came out 16 February and hit my mail box today.
The paper by Howa that'st, Joughin and Scambos was posted on the SCIENCE web
site, but won't be published in SCIENCE for a while yet.
BTW, if you like people so much, I hope you will move to India so you can enjoy
the crush. I suppose Los Angeles is too sparsely populated for your tastes.
--
Eric Swanson --- E-mail address: e_swanson(at)skybest.com :-)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Lloyd
Cato vs Science... tough decision... if you're a nincompoop!
raylopez99
> In article <1172000997.877655.23...@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
> raylope...@yahoo.com says...
>
> OK, Loopy Ray, give us a list of these AGW Skeptics.
Professor Lindzen and Dr. Michells and Ross McKintock--if they run I
would vote for them in a heartbeat.
>
> >BTW this week's Science has a special section on alternative energy--
> >quite good. We need more energy as the population hopefully goes from
> >6 to 9 billion over the next 50 years.
>
> Same old Loopy Ray. That was last week's issue, (9 February).
> I thought there were some glaring errors in the energy discussion, like, the
> focus on PV electricity instead of low temperature thermal, which is cost
> competetive in today's enegy market.
Not an error so much as a lack of emphasis, no?
>Then, there's that old spagetti graph
> on page 797 , you know, the same one that's been around for about 30 years.
I thought that graph was great! THen again I'm not a specialist like
apparently you are.
> The energy flows ignore the primary component of solar energy, which is
> captured by plants and produces all our agricultural output. Only the
> industrially important energy sources are shown. The result is a bias toward
> energy sources which can be centrally controlled by large companies....
But I did like the report about breaking down lignite (sic) so the
enzimes can work on converting sugars in plants to alcohol. If they
can bio-engineer a microbe to digest radioative materials and break
them down, there's hope they'll do the same for the waxy fibres in
plants that currently prevent complete breakdown of plant matter.
>
> This week's issue came out 16 February and hit my mail box today.
> The paper by Howa that'st, Joughin and Scambos was posted on the SCIENCE web
> site, but won't be published in SCIENCE for a while yet.
I'll calendar to read that Err-Hick. I'm sure there's a good strong-
AGW reason for you to be so excited--let's see if I can poke some
holes in it.
>
> BTW, if you like people so much, I hope you will move to India so you can enjoy
> the crush. I suppose Los Angeles is too sparsely populated for your tastes.
>
>
I lived in LA for a while. What impressed me, and also discouraged
me, was the lack of a downtown for nightlife--it's all spread out over
the boulevards (Sunset, Wilshire, Santa Monica) and certain pockets
(Huntington Beach, Malibu, Santa Monica, Hollywood or, if you're into
ethnic types, inland and near the airport. But I'll never forget my
first week in LA I went out on a non-Friday weekday and the streets
were dead at 10pm--everybody was inside watching TV and getting ready
for work the next day--not like NYC which is open 24 hours--what a
bummer for a single guy. So yes, I prefer NYC because of the density
or maybe (never been there but looks good) China (Beijing?) or India
(Bombay?). All in all though, I'm really a country boy--I like
solitude. Just me and my goats up in the mountains all summer long is
fine with me (I'll be burning wood, like last year, when it gets cold
at night). Now if I can only get that satellite modem working, I can
work from my mountain cabin as well, that would be very cool.
RL
hanson
news:1172070288.2...@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I lived in LA for a while. What impressed me, and also discouraged
> me, was the lack of a downtown for nightlife--it's all spread out over
> the boulevards (Sunset, Wilshire, Santa Monica) and certain pockets
> (Huntington Beach, Malibu, Santa Monica, Hollywood or, if you're into
> ethnic types, inland and near the airport. But I'll never forget my
> first week in LA I went out on a non-Friday weekday and the streets
> were dead at 10pm--everybody was inside watching TV and getting ready
> for work the next day--not like NYC which is open 24 hours--what a
> bummer for a single guy. So yes, I prefer NYC because of the density
> or maybe (never been there but looks good) China (Beijing?) or India
> Just me and my goats up in the mountains all summer long is
> fine with me (I'll be burning wood, like last year, when it gets cold
> at night). Now if I can only get that satellite modem working, I can
> work from my mountain cabin as well, that would be very cool.
> RL
>
This spring my Pretty Woman and me may leave our home in these
lovely South Pacific Islands (Rarotonga) for the summer to join the
Bask Herders in their annual trek from Tehachapi or Lake Isabella
California to Reno Nevada along the spine of the magnificent Sierra
Nevada. Perhaps we'll meet along the way somewhere and have
great laughs... You ought to hike or scale the 14K high Mt. Whitney
before you become too old. It's a unique experience: helicopters
rescue dumbshits daily from the trail that is wide enough to get up
there in a motorized wheel chair,well, at least until after the infamous
"99-Switchbacks". All in all it's commercialized environmentalism,
complete with the obligatory permit fee, but the view and vista alone
makes it worth while. Last time I was up there I still made the 22 mile
up/down trek in a single 24 hrs stretch.... only to make a long stretch
into the desert off the highway when my breaks failed back down
into Lone Pine.... ahahahaha.... ahahahahanson
PS: India: The black monazite beaches of Kerala & the Ghats with
Ooticammund are fabulous, not too over-run yet. The Seychelles
were great but a tourist trap now. The Southern und Western part of
China (Tibet) are great too, but fuck their metropolitan cities, they
are like any other large city around the world, show cases of the
globalization in the making. -- Southern Chile and Patagonia are
"swell" too if you like "northern" cold and rainy climates.
Cleopatra_Enterprise_Institute-Queen_of-DeNile
>
> GW is trendy--hope you, if you are the real professor Lloyd Parker,
> are getting your share of the grant gravy train.
>
Ray - the rumor is that you yourself have given up all earthly riches
and are now a simple Hindu monk begging for support in Benares.
Is this true?
Is that how you achieve your marvelous dispassionate attitude
regarding AGW?
Cleopatra_Enterprise_Institute-Queen_of-DeNile
:
>
> > 1. "Picoplankton Do Some Heavy Liftying" by Richard T. Barber,
> > explains (a paper by Richardson and Jackson, in the same issue) how
> > traditional models (of the kind used by AGW'er 'tard computer
> > simulations) ignore so called "picoplankton" as too small to
> > contribute to carbon sequesterization. But in fact these picoplankton
> > are a major way for sequestering carbon.
>
> Then the fact that CO2 is up 36% is even more serious -- here's an
> additional sink and all the sinks together still can't halt the
> increase.
Lloyd - Do Richardson and Jackson say anything about how sensitive the
picoplankton are to changes in temperature and pH?
That is, assuming that this CO2 sink is important -- although as you
point out, it doesn't seem to be preventing a global CO2 buildup now
-- how long is it likely to keep functioning, as global climate change
progresses?
To put a point in for Ray, it could be that when CO2 levels rise, and
temperatures rise, and pH levels in the upper few meters of the oceans
increase (thanks to more CO2 in the water), that the picoplankton will
flourish.
But of course, they might die off in response to changing conditions,
too. Or start to shut down - thus having a negative impact on their
sequestration action.
Cleopatra_Enterprise_Institute-Queen_of-DeNile
HOW FUN!
WE'RE NOW DISCUSSING INDIA AS A TOURIST DESTINATION,
INSTEAD OF DEBATING THE ROLE OF CO2 IN CLIMATE CHANGE!
DO YOU HAVE ANY SLIDES YOU TOOK ON VACATION,
EITHER OF THE HANSON FAMILY OR THE LOPEZ FAMILY?
BECAUSE IF THERE'S ANYTHING WE NEED TO DO IN THIS GROUP,
IT"S TO SWITCH TOPICS, AWAY FROM THE LATEST IPCC CONCLUSIONS.
On Feb 21, 11:52 am, "hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote:
> "raylopez99" <raylope...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> "swell" too if you like "northern" cold and rainy climates.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Eric Swanson
>
>On Feb 20, 6:01 pm, swan...@NoScrewingAround.net (Eric Swanson) wrote:
>> In article <1172000997.877655.23...@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
>> raylope...@yahoo.com says...
>>
>> OK, Loopy Ray, give us a list of these AGW Skeptics.
>
>Professor Lindzen and Dr. Michells and Ross McKintock--if they run I
>would vote for them in a heartbeat.
I should have known...
Which section of the AAAS do you belong to?
>> >BTW this week's Science has a special section on alternative energy--
>> >quite good. We need more energy as the population hopefully goes from
>> >6 to 9 billion over the next 50 years.
>>
>> Same old Loopy Ray. That was last week's issue, (9 February).
>> I thought there were some glaring errors in the energy discussion, like, the
>> focus on PV electricity instead of low temperature thermal, which is cost
>> competetive in today's enegy market.
>
>Not an error so much as a lack of emphasis, no?
Well, the least cost alternative should be the first implemented, no?
>>Then, there's that old spagetti graph
>> on page 797 , you know, the same one that's been around for about 30 years.
>
>I thought that graph was great! THen again I'm not a specialist like
>apparently you are.
I have 2 engineering degrees and became involved with alternative energy more
than 30 years ago...
>> The energy flows ignore the primary component of solar energy, which is
>> captured by plants and produces all our agricultural output. Only the
>> industrially important energy sources are shown. The result is a bias toward
>> energy sources which can be centrally controlled by large companies....
>
>But I did like the report about breaking down lignite (sic) so the
>enzimes can work on converting sugars in plants to alcohol. If they
>can bio-engineer a microbe to digest radioative materials and break
>them down, there's hope they'll do the same for the waxy fibres in
>plants that currently prevent complete breakdown of plant matter.
That's LIGNIN and where are the microbes that "digest" radioactive materials?
I can hardly wait for the new bio-reactor which changes lead into gold.
>> This week's issue came out 16 February and hit my mail box today.
>> The paper by Howa that'st, Joughin and Scambos was posted on the SCIENCE web
>> site, but won't be published in SCIENCE for a while yet.
>
>I'll calendar to read that Err-Hick. I'm sure there's a good strong-
>AGW reason for you to be so excited--let's see if I can poke some
>holes in it.
That reference should have read: Howat, Joughin and Scambos
I'm trying to adjust to the little keyboard on this 6 year old laptop I
found on eBay for $100, plus the cost of a new hard drive. I thought you
were claiming that this report debunked AGW, so why would youwant to polk
holes in it?? You are such a funny guy!
hanson
<fernba...@yahoo.com> SCREAMED in message
news:1172079782....@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> HOW FUN!
> WE'RE NOW DISCUSSING INDIA AS A TOURIST DESTINATION,
> INSTEAD OF DEBATING THE ROLE OF CO2 IN CLIMATE CHANGE!
> DO YOU HAVE ANY SLIDES YOU TOOK ON VACATION,
> EITHER OF THE HANSON FAMILY OR THE LOPEZ FAMILY?
> BECAUSE IF THERE'S ANYTHING WE NEED TO DO IN THIS GROUP,
> IT"S TO SWITCH TOPICS, AWAY FROM THE LATEST IPCC CONCLUSIONS.
>
ahahahah... did it crank you that you must scream, Grandpa?,
or did your caplock key got stuck because of AGW since
you fart too much?...
Thanks for the laughs Grandpa and here enjoy it again.
Aren't you a nature dude too, enjoying the greater "environment"?
Shame that you are such a closeted environmentalist.
ahahaha.... ahahahansonhttp://groups.google.com/group/alt.global-warming/msg/b0c22b10a152e51b
>>
"raylopez99" <raylo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
john fernbach
"Let's change the subject and talk about Asia tourism, for a change.
"Because God forbid that we try to think clearly about AGW.
"It'll hurt my employers."
Saddam's Noose, Exxon's Neck
to him and NAMBLA Kiddie-Porn?
raylopez99
> "raylopez99" <raylope...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> This spring my Pretty Woman and me may leave our home in these
> lovely South Pacific Islands (Rarotonga) for the summer to join the
> Bask Herders in their annual trek from Tehachapi or Lake Isabella
> California to Reno Nevada along the spine of the magnificent Sierra
> Nevada. Perhaps we'll meet along the way somewhere and have
> great laughs...
Sounds good ahahahanson! Except now I'm in SE Europe (left CA last
year for good). And I didn't even get to go to Mt. Whitney, though I
did some Class 4 rapids (great fun; almost drowned, but that's par for
the course) in the American River.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rarotonga <--looks like a paradise!
> PS: India: The black monazite beaches of Kerala & the Ghats with
> Ooticammund are fabulous, not too over-run yet. The Seychelles
> were great but a tourist trap now. The Southern und Western part of
> China (Tibet) are great too, but fuck their metropolitan cities, they
> are like any other large city around the world, show cases of the
> globalization in the making. -- Southern Chile and Patagonia are
> "swell" too if you like "northern" cold and rainy climates.
I've never heard of the India sites, thanks. Calendared these areas
to ask my Indian friends next time I talk to them. Patagonia etc I am
familiar with, though haven't yet gone, since I travel to South
America for business. Done the hike to Macchu Pitchu (but taking the
train first, I was pressed for time). I like to hike, I can go
forever, and so can some of my 80 year old relatives. Hope I can keep
going when I'm their age. No wheelchair ever for me, knock on wood.
Hey ahahahanson--do you think I should marry a beautiful Eastern
European girl almost half my age? That's the "dilemma" I'm facing in
the real world!* F* GW! I've got bigger and better "problems" to
"worry about", LOL! (Green card 'scam' but it's not really a scam if
you get hot sex for several years--and like she says, who knows? She
might even stay with me after she gets her citzenship).
Hasta la vista amigo!
RL
* while checking the spelling of this term, I came across this Wiki
gem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilemma
Indeed, my Green Card model is a classic "dilemma" according to this
definition, that is, not she's not a dilemma at all.
raylopez99
<fernbach2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 20, 11:08 am, "Lloyd" <lpar...@emory.edu> wrote:
> :
>
> > > 1. "Picoplankton Do Some Heavy Liftying" by Richard T. Barber,
> > > explains (a paper by Richardson and Jackson, in the same issue) how
> > > traditional models (of the kind used by AGW'er 'tard computer
> > > simulations) ignore so called "picoplankton" as too small to
> > > contribute to carbon sequesterization. But in fact these picoplankton
> > > are a major way for sequestering carbon.
>
> > Then the fact that CO2 is up 36% is even more serious -- here's an
> > additional sink and all the sinks together still can't halt the
> > increase.
>
> Lloyd - Do Richardson and Jackson say anything about how sensitive the
> picoplankton are to changes in temperature and pH?
How the hell would he know? He didn't read the article.
>
> That is, assuming that this CO2 sink is important -- although as you
> point out, it doesn't seem to be preventing a global CO2 buildup now
> -- how long is it likely to keep functioning, as global climate change
> progresses?
>
> To put a point in for Ray, it could be that when CO2 levels rise, and
> temperatures rise, and pH levels in the upper few meters of the oceans
> increase (thanks to more CO2 in the water), that the picoplankton will
> flourish.
>
> But of course, they might die off in response to changing conditions,
> too. Or start to shut down - thus having a negative impact on their
> sequestration action.
That's a good question Queen--the picoplankton can be a source or a
sink. Further research is needed.
RL
Carbon Criminal Polluters
> Hey ahahahanson--do you think I should marry a beautiful Eastern
> European girl almost half my age?
Well Ray, since you are 22 now I would advise against it as there are
often changes in affection after a girl starts menstration
How's the Kiddie Porn Business?
raylopez99
<ExxonCro...@ScienceCop.info> wrote:
> Did Ray Lopez SUDDENLY Skip the Country because all the google links
> to him and NAMBLA Kiddie-Porn?
I travel the world, and add to GW, if you believe Al Gore's web
calculator, with all my frequent long distance flights. I'm only a
tad below average, though without the flights I'm something like a
mere 0.5 tonnes carbon a year versus the average of 2.5 to 3 tonnes.
I recall a flight earlier this year in Turkey (they use planes a lot;
it's a big country) where there were only three passengers on the
jumbo jet (they were moving it from one part of the country to the
other the stewardess said). Oh, the waste! I felt guilty for about a
millisecond...then slipped back and enjoyed the flight.
RL
Carbon Criminal Polluters
Since Roger Dewhurst has refused to answer the question, I'll ask you:
"By the way, Roger Dewhurst, how come you are ALWAYS on the same side
with Ray Lopez who has all those links about NAMBLA Kiddie Porn on
Google? Do you have part of his business or something? Just for the
record, WHAT is your position on Kiddie Porn?"
How much is Dewhurst invested in your international Kiddie Porn Ring?
Eric Swanson
raylo...@yahoo.com says...
Lots of folks think flying is great. However, they don't know that simply
adding each person and luggage requires a relatiely large jump in the energy
need to make the flight. A fully loaded jet produces about 30 seat-miles per
gallon of jet fuel. So, take all your yearly jet miles and divide by 30 to
get the rough number of gallons of fuel you consumed last year. You may want
to exclude that one trip with only 3 passengers, since that one likely used
hundreds of gallons per passenger mile. Even without that one, I'd bet your
high flying consumed much more carbon than that 0.5 tonnes you mention. The
other fact you are likely ignoring is the energy used as the result of your
stays in various hotels, eating in resturants, riding in taxis, etc.
raylopez99
wrote:
>
> >>Then, there's that old spagettigraph
> >> on page 797 , you know, the same one that's been around for about 30 years.
>
> >> The energy flows ignore the primary component of solar energy, which is
> >> captured by plants and produces all our agricultural output. Only the
> >> industrially important energy sources are shown. The result is a bias toward
> >> energy sources which can be centrally controlled by large companies....
Yes, looking again at the spagetti graph on p. 797 of the 9 Feb 2007
issue of Science, I see that it is biased towards traditional energy
sources (petroleum (40 quads), natural gas (23), coal (23), in about
the same order with about 22-40 quads of energy each), followed by
nuclear (8 quads) and the rest being almost nothing--but there's a
reason for that: the graph clearly states "energy flows in the US in
2005". So it's historical, not predictive.
The Science issue also points out the well known fact R&D is
underfunded in the energy business (I've read this before), mainly
because Big Oil found that they get what they need (until recently)
using old technology.
Geothermal gave 0.31 quads, about double wind (0.15 quads), which was
double solar (0.006 quads). So there's a way to go for the alt.energy
incumbents to catch up with Oil, Coal, Gas. Obviously "further
research (and high oil prices) are needed"
RL
hanson
Lion Kuntz aka "Awe Shit" <Carbon.Crimi...@Exxon-Turds.info>
sent in news:1172098219....@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
a coded pedo-message to unknown other recipients then are in here.
>
> On Feb 21, 2:40 pm, "raylopez99" <raylope...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Hey ahahahanson--do you think I should marry a beautiful
>> Eastern European girl almost half my age?
>
Well congrats, Ray! But, Ray do what your own heart commands.
I am not in the match-making biz but let me say on this matter:
-- If you have to ask anybody whether you should marry "her"
then do NOT. If she's the right one for you, things will happen
and come to fruition without any such questions. It's called love.
I wish you all the happiness, hermano
hanson
>
[Lion Kuntz]
> Well Ray, since you are 22 now I would advise against it as there
> are often changes in affection after a girl starts menstration
> How's the Kiddie Porn Business?
>
ahahaha... Kuntz, you just incriminated yourself, admitting with
your question in this public forum that it's YOU, Lion Kuntz, who
has interests in Kiddy Porn and nobody else here, you miserable
old swine... The machinations you are using here, employing random
names and identity theft as a cover, apparently as code to find other
like minded swine like yourself, are well known to the authorities
since criminals like you just can't help to incriminate themselves,
like you just did here...
ahahaha...Leon you swine. Your peculiar yeaning that you have
for your posted desire for your "sphincter-stretching" (see here),
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/f58dd78ba03ea218
you organ grinding homo, may be coming to you sooner than
you have hoped for ... ahahaha... Send us a postcard, Kuntz
after they move you from your current basement into another
one, ..... with bars ... ahahaha... ahahaha....ahahahanson
hanson
> On Feb 21, 8:52 am, "hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote:
>> "raylopez99" <raylope...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> [hanson]
>> This spring my Pretty Woman and me may leave our home in these
>> lovely South Pacific Islands (Rarotonga) for the summer to join the
>> Bask Herders in their annual trek from Tehachapi or Lake Isabella
>> California to Reno Nevada along the spine of the magnificent Sierra
>> Nevada. Perhaps we'll meet along the way somewhere and have
>> great laughs...
>
> Sounds good ahahahanson! Except now I'm in SE Europe (left CA last
> year for good). And I didn't even get to go to Mt. Whitney, though I
> did some Class 4 rapids (great fun; almost drowned, but that's par for
> the course) in the American River.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rarotonga <--looks like a paradise!
>
ahahaha... any and all paradises lose eventually their luster
since any and all paradises are manufactured in our minds.
The Reds found that out with their workers paradise as do
the desperate fanatics of the green paradise. Many of the top
dogs of Green organizations have found bigger & more golden
green luster by being turn-coats and went working for big
Business like Patrick Moore and others did... ahahahaha...
>
[hanson]
>> PS: India: The black monazite beaches of Kerala & the Ghats with
>> Ooticammund are fabulous, not too over-run yet. The Seychelles
>> were great but a tourist trap now. The Southern und Western part of
>> China (Tibet) are great too, but fuck their metropolitan cities, they
>> are like any other large city around the world, show cases of the
>> globalization in the making. -- Southern Chile and Patagonia are
>> "swell" too if you like "northern" cold and rainy climates.
>
> I've never heard of the India sites, thanks. Calendared these areas
> to ask my Indian friends next time I talk to them. Patagonia etc I am
> familiar with, though haven't yet gone, since I travel to South
> America for business. Done the hike to Macchu Pitchu (but taking the
> train first, I was pressed for time). I like to hike, I can go
> forever, and so can some of my 80 year old relatives. Hope I can keep
> going when I'm their age. No wheelchair ever for me, knock on wood.
>
> Hey ahahahanson--do you think I should marry a beautiful Eastern
> European girl almost half my age? That's the "dilemma" I'm facing in
> the real world!* F* GW! I've got bigger and better "problems" to
> "worry about", LOL! (Green card 'scam' but it's not really a scam if
> you get hot sex for several years--and like she says, who knows?
> She might even stay with me after she gets her citzenship).
> Hasta la vista amigo!
> RL
>
Well congrats, Ray! But Ray, do what your own heart commands.
I am not in the match-making biz but let me say on this matter:
-- If you have to ask anybody whether you should marry "her"
then do NOT. If she's the right one for you, things will happen
and come to fruition without any such questions. It's called love.
hanson
>
[Ray]
> * while checking the spelling of this term, I came across this Wiki
> gem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilemma
> Indeed, my Green Card model is a classic "dilemma" according to
> this definition, that is, not she's not a dilemma at all.
>
I have heard of scams like that for entry into the US.
Fortunately I never had to deal with such issues myself.
hanson
raylopez99
hanson wisely wrote:
> ahahaha... any and all paradises lose eventually their luster
> since any and all paradises are manufactured in our minds.
> The Reds found that out with their workers paradise as do
> the desperate fanatics of the green paradise. Many of the top
> dogs of Green organizations have found bigger & more golden
> green luster by being turn-coats and went working for big
> Business like Patrick Moore and others did... ahahahaha...
> >
Yes, interesting, thanks for the pointer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Moore_(environmentalist)
> >
> > Hey ahahahanson--do you think I should marry a beautiful Eastern
> > European girl almost half my age? That's the "dilemma" I'm facing in
> > the real world!* F* GW! I've got bigger and better "problems" to
> > "worry about", LOL! (Green card 'scam' but it's not really a scam if
> > you get hot sex for several years--and like she says, who knows?
> > She might even stay with me after she gets her citzenship).
> > Hasta la vista amigo!
> > RL
> >
> [hanson]
> Well congrats, Ray! But Ray, do what your own heart commands.
> I am not in the match-making biz but let me say on this matter:
> -- If you have to ask anybody whether you should marry "her"
> then do NOT. If she's the right one for you, things will happen
> and come to fruition without any such questions. It's called love.
> I wish you all the happiness, hermano.
Thanks for the words of wisdom mi hermano. But I haven't even met her
yet, it's still very theoretical. But we'll meet soon, and, like you
say, if there's love things will happen. Her family wants to pay me
money, just to do a commercial marriage (for the card), but I don't
need the money and don't want that grief. On the other hand, what if
she's really attractive like they say she is? Should I forgo a chance
to help a damsel in distress? LOL. We'll see, hopefully there'll be
mutual attraction and love is blind. (ahahaha!)
RL
Eric Swanson
>
>On Feb 21, 12:31 pm, swan...@NoScrewingAround.net (Eric Swanson)
>wrote:
>>
>> >>Then, there's that old spagettigraph
>> >> on page 797 , you know, the same one that's been around for about 30 years.
>>
>
>> >> The energy flows ignore the primary component of solar energy, which is
>> >> captured by plants and produces all our agricultural output. Only the
>> >> industrially important energy sources are shown. The result is a bias toward
>> >> energy sources which can be centrally controlled by large companies....
>
>Yes, looking again at the spagetti graph on p. 797 of the 9 Feb 2007
>issue of Science, I see that it is biased towards traditional energy
>sources (petroleum (40 quads), natural gas (23), coal (23), in about
>the same order with about 22-40 quads of energy each), followed by
>nuclear (8 quads) and the rest being almost nothing--but there's a
>reason for that: the graph clearly states "energy flows in the US in
>2005". So it's historical, not predictive.
>Geothermal gave 0.31 quads, about double wind (0.15 quads), which was
>double solar (0.006 quads). So there's a way to go for the alt.energy
>incumbents to catch up with Oil, Coal, Gas. Obviously "further
>research (and high oil prices) are needed"
As usual, Loopy Ray, you missed the point entirely. It's called agriculture.
Plants use solar energy and are very inefficient in producing something we
can use. The conversion efficiency is down around 1%, so the energy in the
corn, wheat, soybeans, timber, etc. which we use actually represents a very
large input of solar energy at ground level. Also, the rain water we use to
grow crops is produced by solar energy, which gives distilled water without
salts so that plants can grow. The energy graph just shows commercial energy
production/consumption. But, rather obviously, all humanity is solar powered,
as all our food is derived from plants of one sort or another. Of course,
there is a section on biomass and solar, but these are from those diversions
of solar into the highly concentrated uses that appear in commerce.
What this graph does is assume that the economy exists separate from the rest
of the world, especially the natural world. I hope we've learned by now that
we can't look at things that way that any longer if mankind is to survive.
raylopez99
> In article <1172157230.997688.320...@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>, raylope...@yahoo.com says...
> >Geothermal gave 0.31 quads, about double wind (0.15 quads), which was
> >double solar (0.006 quads). So there's a way to go for the alt.energy
> >incumbents to catch up with Oil, Coal, Gas. Obviously "further
> >research (and high oil prices) are needed"
>
> As usual, Loopy Ray, you missed the point entirely. It's called agriculture.
Ah, so.
> Plants use solar energy and are very inefficient in producing something we
> can use. The conversion efficiency is down around 1%, so the energy in the
> corn, wheat, soybeans, timber, etc. which we use actually represents a very
> large input of solar energy at ground level.
Yes, the Second Law of Thermodynamics imposes limits, but we're not
even close to the theoretical limit. Note from the spaggetti graph
how much (over half) waste heat from fossil fuel conversion.
> Also, the rain water we use to
> grow crops is produced by solar energy, which gives distilled water without
> salts so that plants can grow. The energy graph just shows commercial energy
> production/consumption.
Yes, yes, go on Err-Hick. I'm waiting for an unforced error, I feel
it coming.
> But, rather obviously, all humanity is solar powered,
> as all our food is derived from plants of one sort or another.
Yes, food takes energy to grow, go on.
> Of course,
> there is a section on biomass and solar, but these are from those diversions
> of solar into the highly concentrated uses that appear in commerce.
Uh, huh. THat's right. THat was the graph, Err-hick. Go on.
>
> What this graph does is assume that the economy exists separate from the rest
> of the world, especially the natural world. I hope we've learned by now that
> we can't look at things that way that any longer if mankind is to survive.
>
> --
Ah, for once no major mistakes, just a lot of non sequitors.
Well why not Err-hick? Why not seperate the rest? You're trained in
science, you should know the value of seperating a problem into
components.
>From the Feb Science mag we learned: they're working on more
efficient PV cells (that can be thicker and less pure, since it's the
impurities that soak up electrons, more impurities the thicker the PV
cell, yet more efficiency as well; are 'nanotubes' the answer?);
they're working on genetic engineering to produce plants with less
LIGNITE (woody waxous fibers) so they can break down faster in a
biofuel tank; they're working on getting funding for more nuclear R&D,
since nuclear engineers are a dying breed, after 3 Mile Island, and we
need more such engineers to perfect things like breeder reactors;
they're working on hydrogen fuel cells "running backwards" to seperate
hydrogen from other molecules to which it binds strongly (recall the
acid solution that already yields hydrogen when energy is input, as
pointed out by the salt-and-pepper bearded California dude featured);
we are learning more about picoplankton, so we can do things like seed
the ocean so such plankton can absorb C02 and sink to the bottom of
the ocean; we're studying how to best sequester CO2 (recall the asian
Nobelian Chin? who heads the US Govt National Lab studying this and
other energy problems), perhaps by storing it at the bottom of the sea
(as it stays liqufied and will sink, being denser, so it's stable down
there).
People are working on these problems Err-Hick, calmly, deliberately,
and with the absence of hype. Meanwhile you and Roger seem to waste
time here everyday with hysteria. Why is that? Don't point to me--
I've already said I'm a Devils Advocate and flamer who'se just here
for entertainment.
RL
Vendicar Decarian
"raylopez99" <raylo...@yahoo.com> wrote
> 1. "Picoplankton Do Some Heavy Liftying" by Richard T. Barber,
> explains (a paper by Richardson and Jackson, in the same issue) how
> traditional models (of the kind used by AGW'er 'tard computer
> simulations) ignore so called "picoplankton" as too small to
> contribute to carbon sequesterization. But in fact these picoplankton
> are a major way for sequestering carbon.
What are these picoplankton going to do tomorrow that they are not already
doing today?
Are they just sitting there dormant in the ocean waiting for some CO2
level to be exceeded before they turn on and absorb exactly and magically
all of the CO2 that man produces?
If that's what you think then you are even dumber than anyone here had
estimated.
"raylopez99" <raylo...@yahoo.com> wrote
> 2. "Rapid Changes in Ice Discharge from Greenland Outlet Glaciers" by
> Howat, Joughin and Scambos explain how: "Satellite measurements show
> that the discharge from the two major outlet glaciers of the Greenland
> Ice Sheeet doubled in 2004 but then DECREASED abruptly in
> 2006" (emphasis added).
So? What is the average rate of ice loss over the past decade?
Just 2 years ago, Denialists were claiming that the Greenland Ice sheet
was growing, when in fact it was shrinking, and even today claim that the
Antarctic ice sheet is growing when it too is rapidly shrinking.
Stupid... Corrupt... Loser... Lopez...
Vendicar Decarian
"raylopez99" <raylo...@yahoo.com> wrote
> No, not if we learn to feed the plankton. The opposite of not feeding
> the troll.
So your desire is to fuck something else up in order to give you an excuse
to continue on proflagate consumption.
Sorry, you and your brethren will hang, lifeless from trees before that
happens.
"raylopez99" <raylo...@yahoo.com> wrote
> BTW the latest Science has a special edition on GW--and to show you
> how simplistic it is, the lead editorial mentions that flawed Stern
> report (which as per the Cato Institute uses two different and
> contradictory discount rates to value money streams--an elementary
> blunder).
This is the same CATO group that for years claimed that smoking doesn't
cause cancer?
Vendicar Decarian
"Roger Coppock" <rcop...@adnc.com> wrote
> And two years is the entire history of climate
> change on that mini-continent, right?
You don't understand. 2 years of local weather, is important to Ray in
debunking the 100 years of measurements of the Global Climate, and the
thousands of years of reconstructed climate proxy records which he claims
are far, far too short to draw any conclusions.
Ahahahahahaah... Lopez is a perpetual loser, and a politically motivated
Liar.
Vendicar Decarian
"raylopez99" <raylo...@yahoo.com> wrote
> Not only do I read Science Roger, but I vote too, as a member in good
> standing. And I'm voting for the AGW Sceptic slate.
Ya, but web polls and blogs are as meaningless as you are.
Vendicar Decarian
"raylopez99" <raylo...@yahoo.com> wrote
> Professor Lindzen and Dr. Michells and Ross McKintock--if they run I
> would vote for them in a heartbeat.
Quack... Quack... Quack....
Oh, sorry. Quack... Shill... Shill..
Vendicar Decarian
"hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote Nothing but Ignorance.
Meanwhile...
American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS)
AAAS Board Statement on Climate Change
--------------------------------------
Approved by the AAAS Board of Directors
9 December 2006
For more information:
The scientific evidence is clear: global climate change caused by human
activities is occurring now, and it is a growing threat to society.
Accumulating data from across the globe reveal a wide array of effects:
rapidly melting glaciers, destabilization of major ice sheets, increases in
extreme weather, rising sea level, shifts in species ranges, and more. The
pace of change and the evidence of harm have increased markedly over the
last five years. The time to control greenhouse gas emissions is now.
The atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide, a critical greenhouse gas,
is higher than it
has been for at least 650,000 years. The average temperature of the Earth is
heading for levels not experienced for millions of years. Scientific
predictions of the impacts of increasing atmospheric concentrations of
greenhouse gases from fossil fuels and deforestation match observed changes.
As expected, intensification of droughts, heat waves, floods, wildfires, and
severe storms is occurring, with a mounting toll on vulnerable ecosystems
and societies.
These events are early warning signs of even more devastating damage to
come, some of which will be irreversible.
Delaying action to address climate change will increase the environmental
and societal consequences as well as the costs. The longer we wait to tackle
climate change, the harder and more expensive the task will be.
History provides many examples of society confronting grave threats by
mobilizing knowledge and promoting innovation. We need an aggressive
research, development and eployment effort to transform the existing and
future energy systems of the world away from technologies that emit
greenhouse gases. Developing clean energy technologies will provide economic
opportunities and ensure future energy supplies.
In addition to rapidly reducing greenhouse gas emissions, it is essential
that we develop strategies to adapt to ongoing changes and make communities
more resilient to future changes. The growing torrent of information
presents a clear message: we are already experiencing global climate change.
It is time to muster the political will for concerted action. Stronger
leadership at all levels is needed. The time is now. We must rise to the
challenge. We owe this to future generations.
The conclusions in this statement reflect the scientific consensus
represented by, for example, the intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
(www.ipcc.ch/), and the joint National Academies' statement
(http://nationalacademies. org/onpi/06072005.pdf).
Vendicar Decarian
Vendicar Decarian
"raylopez99" <raylo...@yahoo.com> wrote
> Sounds good ahahahanson! Except now I'm in SE Europe (left CA last
> year for good). And I didn't even get to go to Mt. Whitney, though I
> did some Class 4 rapids (great fun; almost drowned, but that's par for
> the course) in the American River.
Even Lopez is abandoning the Failed AmeriKKKan State.
It's a good move on his part. Get his AmeriKKKan money out of the country
and convert it to Euro's before it's worthless..
Vendicar Decarian
"raylopez99" <raylo...@yahoo.com> wrote
> Thanks for the words of wisdom mi hermano. But I haven't even met her
> yet, it's still very theoretical. But we'll meet soon, and, like you
> say, if there's love things will happen. Her family wants to pay me
> money, just to do a commercial marriage (for the card), but I don't
> need the money and don't want that grief. On the other hand, what if
> she's really attractive like they say she is? Should I forgo a chance
> to help a damsel in distress? LOL. We'll see, hopefully there'll be
> mutual attraction and love is blind. (ahahaha!)
Gee Lopez. even in Europe it's illegal to fuck an 11 year old, even when
the marriage is an arranged scam for money.
Hmmm. That would make you a prostitute wouldn't it Lopez? Fucking an 11
year old for money?
By the way, this arranged marriage is with a young girl isn't it?
I am happy that you have exposed your KKKonservative Morality for all the
world to see.
Congrats...
Vendicar Decarian
> for entertainment.
Oh. I thought you waid you were a male prostitute that fucks 11 year old
girls for pay.
Did I miss something?
Vendicar Decarian
"Cleopatra_Enterprise_Institute-Queen_of-DeNile" <fernba...@yahoo.com>
wrote
> Lloyd - Do Richardson and Jackson say anything about how sensitive the
> picoplankton are to changes in temperature and pH?
You don't expect him to have actually read the article do you? That would
be a first with Lopez.
Vendicar Decarian
"raylopez99" <raylo...@yahoo.com> wrote
> I travel the world, and add to GW,
Well at least you are out of AmeriKKKa for good, as you said earlier. The
collective IQ of that state has just increased as a result.
Praise Gawd...
By the way, how long have you been a male prostitute?
BONZ0
> "raylopez99" <raylo...@yahoo.com> wrote
>> 2. "Rapid Changes in Ice Discharge from Greenland Outlet Glaciers" by
>> Howat, Joughin and Scambos explain how: "Satellite measurements show
>> that the discharge from the two major outlet glaciers of the Greenland
>> Ice Sheeet doubled in 2004 but then DECREASED abruptly in
>> 2006" (emphasis added).
>
> So? What is the average rate of ice loss over the past decade?
>
> Just 2 years ago, Denialists were claiming that the Greenland Ice sheet was growing, when in fact it was shrinking, and even
> today claim that the Antarctic ice sheet is growing when it too is rapidly shrinking.
The Antarctic ice has been receding for 20,000 years.
IT IS A NATURAL PROCESS AS THE FOLLOWING ARTICLE EXPLAINS ...
NASA Animates 20,000 Years Of Antarctic Ice History
February 3, 1999
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/science/9902/03/antarctic.ice.sheet/
GREENBELT, Maryland (CNN) -- Scientists studying the shrinking of the Antarctic ice sheet can now watch a movie of the phenomenon.
The National Aeronautics and Space Administration has developed 3-D computer animation showing the retreat of the west Antarctic
ice sheet over 20,000 years, speeded up into a few minutes of dramatic video footage.
"The purpose of the visual is to emphasize the changes that have taken place," said Robert Bindschadler, a glaciologist at the NASA
Goddard Space Flight Center in Maryland.
"During the last 20,000 years, the west Antarctic ice sheet lost two-thirds of its mass and raised the sea level 10 meters. It
still contains enough ice to raise the sea level by another 5 meters if it were to lose the remainder of its mass,' Bindschadler
said.
During the last 30 years, scientists have become increasingly concerned about the effects global warming might have on the west
Antarctic ice sheet. Specifically, some researchers have expressed concern that rapid melting of the sheet could contribute to a
catastrophic rise in sea levels around the world.
The majority of the west Antarctic ice sheet sits atop dry land, while the east Antarctic ice sheet is grounded below sea level.
Changes in the east Antarctic sheet would have little effect on sea levels since the ice displaces water, but a complete melt of
west Antarctic ice would pour new water into the oceans.
Scientists say the ice sheet has lost two-thirds of its mass
Bindschadler said there is evidence that the west Antarctic ice sheet may have melted and reformed several times during the past 11
million years.
The computer animation begins with Antarctica at the peak of the last Ice Age about 20,000 years ago, and shows the gradual
shrinking of the west ice sheet.
"About 12,000 years ago, it began a dramatic retreat," Bindschadler said. "We're not sure if the retreat is still taking place --
that's one of the main questions we're trying to answer."
CHANGES IN GREENLAND ARE ALSO NATURAL AS THE FOLLOWING ARTICLE SHOWS ...
Twin Ice Cores From Greenland Reveal History of Climate Change, More
http://www.agu.org/sci_soc/eismayewski.html
Locked within two cores of ancient ice is evidence of unprecedented swings in Earth's climate throughout the ages. These icy
archives tell us that large, rapid, global change is more the norm for the Earth's climate than is stasis.
by R. Alley, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park; P. Mayewski, University of New Hampshire, Durham; D. Peel, British
Antarctic Survey, Cambridge, England; and B. Stauffer, University of Bern, Bern, Switzerland
Two projects conducted from 1989 to 1993 collected parallel ice cores just 30 kilometers apart from the central part of the
Greenland ice sheet. Each core is more than 3 kilometers deep and extends back 110,000 years. In short, the ice cores tell a clear
story: humans came of age agriculturally and industrially during the most stable climatic regime recorded in the cores. They also
indicate that today, Greenland is roughly 20°C warmer than it once was.
Scientists who have studied the cores agree that the Earth experienced large, rapid, regional-to-global climate oscillations
through most of the last 110,000 years, of a scale that agricultural- and industrial-age humans did not face. Though a few of these
stadial/interstadial oscillations such as the Younger Dryas event were known for decades, many more were found in the first
Greenland deep ice cores, but most of the oscillations occurred in ice from close to bedrock where flow may have disturbed the
climatic record. In the new cores, these events are recorded far enough above the bed that ice flow is unlikely to have altered the
early section of the 110,000-year climatic record. The almost perfect match back to this date between records from the two cores
should dispel any lingering doubt about the climatic origin of the events. These millennial-scale events represent large climate
deviations that probably include change in temperature of many degrees Celsius, twofold changes in snow accumulation, large changes
in how much wind-blown dust and sea salt were carried by the atmosphere, and large changes in methane concentration. Changes during
these events commonly occur over decades or less. Shifts in the patterns of atmospheric circulation could explain the rapidity and
magnitude of these events. Most recently, subtle versions of these rapid climate change events were identified through the
reconstruction of atmospheric circulation patterns in the Holocene portion of the Greenland ice record. Major climatic change events
are also recorded in the isotopic temperature record of the Vostok core from central East Antarctica, but not as clearly as in cores
from Greenland.
Ice Cores Challenge Standing Theories
Initial interpretation of the ice cores indicated that the large, rapid climate oscillations that dominate the record of the last
110,000 years also persisted through the previous warm period, the Eemian, which took place about 120,000–130,000 years ago. Both
cores also show rapid oscillations in climate during that time period, but with different timing and character. In both cores, there
is evidence of ice flow beginning at or slightly above the depth at which difference in their climate records appears—roughly 2800
m, or approximately 110,000 years ago. Ice flow disturbs the climate record by allowing ice from different layers to mix. The
amounts of gases in both cores differ from those of the Vostok, Antarctica core, where the Eemian era ice is undisturbed by ice
flow. Much remains to be learned about Eemian climate from these cores. Just as they were needed to confirm the rapid oscillations
observed in older cores, a core from a site where the Eemian is farther above the bed and thus is less subject to flow disturbance
will provide the best information. Scientists are already looking at sites in North Greenland and Antarctica capable of delivering
such records.
Measurements of gas-bubble compositions from Antarctic cores provide the best paleorecords of CO2 concentrations. Greenlandic
records indicate some unexplained "noise"—data that may be added by random processes not related to the true environmental record or
just plain high-frequency unexplained data—possibly related to chemical reactions with the more abundant carbonate dust in Greenland
ice. Scientists agree that interpreting the record of CO2 in the Greenland ice is more complex than interpreting it in the Antarctic
ice. However, the results do not question earlier findings about the increase of the atmospheric CO2 concentration at the end of the
last glaciation and a steady increase since the beginning of the industrial age.
Reconstruction of atmospheric circulation patterns and their changes over time from chemical indicators and dust sources
provides new insight into the large, rapid changes documented in the cores. Vigorous work on the air-snow transfer function for
chemicals and particulates is clarifying the significance of the paleoclimatic records. Glacier geophysics and flow modeling,
coupled with physical and electrical studies of ice cores, are leading to better understanding of the ice cores and ice-sheet
behavior, and possible contributions to sea level change. Many studies are underway to help understand the Greenland record in more
detail. Scientists expect to use the cores to learn more about changes in atmospheric acids, past extraterrestrial impacts,
humankind's influence on the chemistry of the atmosphere, and details of Holocene climate variability.
Source: Eos, May 28, 1996, p. 209
WHO ARE THE DENIERS THEN??????????
Regards
B0NZ0
"...and I think future generations are not going to blame us for anything except for being silly, for letting a few tenths of a
degree panic us"
Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT meteorology professor and member of the National Academy of Sciences
"Global warming, at least the modern nightmare version, is a myth. I am sure of it and so are a growing number of scientists. But
what is really worrying is that the world's politicians and policy-makers are not.” Dr Gareth Jones, climate researcher, Met Office
UK
BONZ0
>> This is the same CATO group that for years claimed that smoking doesn't
> cause cancer?
AND THEY WERE RIGHT!
SECOND HAND SMOKE DOES NOT CAUSE CANCER!
iT MIGHT CAUSE OTHER PROBLEMS BUT NOT CANCER.
BONZ0
> "hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote Nothing but Ignorance.
> Meanwhile...
> American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS)
> AAAS Board Statement on Climate Change
> --------------------------------------
>
> Approved by the AAAS Board of Directors
>
> 9 December 2006
>
> For more information:
>
> www.aaas.org/climate
>
> The scientific evidence is clear: global climate change caused by human activities is occurring now, and it is a growing threat to
> society.
Hey Chicken Little!
An increase in global mean temperature of a few tenths of a degree over the last 150 years is NOT CLEAR evidence of global climate
change!
IT IS NOT GROWING!
Mean temperatures have actually plateaued since 1998 and have actually dropped s litlle since then.
Saddam's Noose, Exxon's Neck, Same Reason
wrote:
> "raylopez99" <raylope...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> > No, not if we learn to feed the plankton. The opposite of not feeding
> > the troll.
>
> So your desire is to fuck something else up in order to give you an excuse
> to continue on proflagate consumption.
>
> Sorry, you and your brethren will hang, lifeless from trees before that
> happens.
>
>
> > BTW the latest Science has a special edition on GW--and to show you
> > how simplistic it is, the lead editorial mentions that flawed Stern
> > report (which as per the Cato Institute uses two different and
> > contradictory discount rates to value money streams--an elementary
> > blunder).
>
> This is the same CATO group that for years claimed that smoking doesn't
> cause cancer?
John Christy -- Associate of known TASSC science-fraud felons Patrick
J. Michaels, and Steve Milloy
http://ecosyn.us/adti/Christy/John_Christy_CEI.html
Associate of known TASSC science-fraud felons Patrick J. Michaels, and
Steve Milloy, also continuous association with felony fraud organized
crime operation APCO Associates. Court records ordered to be
publically posted online for the nation to see unequivically shows
that TASSC was conceived as a criminal fraud operation by Philip
Morris Tobacco and engaged in a years-long series of public deceptions
using compliant science-hoaxers known as "whitecoats" by the crime
masterminds and moneybags.
Christy uses the "TASSC METHOD" of inserting errors into the public
record, which when caught are reluctantly retracted, but the false
results are quoted endlessly into the future by collaborative
operators. [Background evidence passed through due process in a
Federal Court of Law establishing the criminal fraud nature of TASSC
has been ordered posted online on the internet by the judge so that
every citizen can examine this evidence of fraud for themselves. The
trial ended with $280,000,000,000 settlement by the tobacco
paymasters, so this is hardly a trial which wasn't fought tooth &
nail. This is a very partial listing of evidence. Links: 1, 2, 3, 4,
5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23,
24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, ... Fred Singer
Euro-TASSC 276, 277, 278, 279, 280, 281, 282, 283, 284, 285, 286, 287,
288, ... Heidelberg Appeal 304, 305, 306, 307, 308, 309, 310, 311, ...
Milloy TASSC 356, 357, 358, 359, 360, 361, 362, ...]
---------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Christy
Satellite temperature record
Christy became famous as early as 1993 [creation of TASSC] for
claiming the global temperature was actually decreasing based on the
"more accurate" satellite data. But others over the years have shown
errors in his interpretation of the data which has slowly and
consistently increased his results. This is in addition to the
improving accuracy of the short data set [4] (it begins in December
1978). In 1997 his testimony to the Committee on Environment and
Public Works pointed out that his (and Dr. Roy Spencer's) data
indicated a decrease in global temperature. Before the same committe
in 2001, he stated it was at an increase that was "a rate less than a
third that observed at the surface" at 0.045 C/decade and it showed
"remarkable consistency between independent measurements [by
radiosonde] of these upper air temperatures". In 2003 before the U.S.
House Committee on Resources he stated his data was "less than half of
the warming observed at the surface." In 2004 his published results
showed a 0.08 C/decade increase. A new error in his interpretation of
the data found in 2005 has now increased his results by 60% in only a
year to 0.13 C/decade but he still claims "all radiosonde comparisons
have been rerun and the agreement is still exceptionally good" [5] as
was claimed in 2001 when his results were 1/3 as high as now.
---------------
http://mediamatters.org/items/200605190003
Fri, May 19, 2006 10:35am EST
In new global warming special, Fox News interviews scientists with
industry ties, records of misinformation ---------------
Fox News employs Executive Director of TASSC, Steve Milloy.
No reputable and law-abiding organization will have any TASSC
fraudster on their payroll, or quote them, or give them a platform.
Christy's affiliation with organizations employing TASSC fraudsters is
beyond accidental coincidence.
---------------
http://timlambert.org/2005/07/spencer/comment-page-3/
Fri 1 Jul 2005
Significant errors found in global warming study
Posted by Tim Lambert under science
http://timlambert.org/2004/08/gwarming/
Thu 12 Aug 2004
"When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do,
Sir?"
Posted by Tim Lambert under science
---------------
FACTSHEET: The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition, TASSC
--- KEY PEOPLE: S. Fred Singer, Science Advisor; Patrick J. Michaels,
Science Advisor; Steven Milloy, Director/Founder of Advancement of
Sound Science Coalition; Frederick Seitz, Science Advisor.
FACTSHEET: The Advancement of Sound Science Center, Inc., TASSC
--- KEY PEOPLE: Steven Milloy, Publisher, JunkScience.con; Bonner
Cohen, Board of Directors.
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/orgfactsheet.php?id=2
FACTSHEET: Competitive Enterprise Institute, CEI
John Christy Contributing Writer
Steven Milloy Adjunct Analyst (TASSC)
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/personfactsheet.php?id=903
FACTSHEET: John Christy
ORGANIZATIONS
--- Competitive Enterprise Institute John Christy, Steven Milloy
(TASSC)
--- Cato Institute KEY PEOPLE: Patrick J. Michaels, Senior Fellow,
Environmental Studies (TASSC); S. Fred Singer, Editorial Advisory
Board (TASSC); Steven Milloy, Adjunct Scholar (TASSC); John Christy,
Conference Speaker; Robert C. Balling Jr., Conference Speaker; Richard
Lindzen, Contributing Writer, Reason Magazine.
--- Independent Institute KEY PEOPLE: David R. Legates, former
Research Fellow; Frederick Seitz, Research Fellow (TASSC); S. Fred
Singer, Research Fellow (TASSC); John Christy, Panel on Global Warming
Graphic of key relationships with John Christy and Competitive
Enterprise Institute and TASSC Fraudsters and other key operatives.
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/index.php?mapid=561
* --- John Christy contributed to a book by CEI-TASSC Fraudster
Patrick J. Michaels. http://snipurl.com/qtrm Google Results about 77
for "John Christy" Shattered Consensus : The True State of Global
Warming.
* Table of contents for Shattered consensus : the true state of
global warming / edited by Patrick J. Michaels.
* --- John Christy is used on the book cover and sales pitch for a
book published by Competitive Enterprise Institute, authored by Ronald
Bailey (CEI Adjunct Analyst), Global Warming and Other Eco Myths: How
the Environmental Movement Uses False Science to Scare Us to Death
* --- Google has 120 links to CEI.org website using John Christy's
"erroneous data", and has not corrected them or retracted them.
http://snipurl.com/qtt0 Google Results about 120 from www.cei.org for
"John Christy" "Patrick J. Michaels" | "Competitive Enterprise
Institute".
* --- John Christy is used on the book cover and sales pitch for a
book published by Cato Institute, authored by Cato-CEI-TASSC Fraudster
Patrick J. Michaels. Meltdown : The Predictable Distortion of Global
Warming by Scientists, Politicians, and the Media.
* --- TASSC operative S. Fred Singer's SEPP website has 35
webpages with Christy's erroneous data, which has never been corrected
or retracted. http://snipurl.com/qttt Google Results 1 - 35 from www.sepp.org
for "John Christy" SEPP.
* --- TASSC operative Frederick Seitz, and longtime partner with
Singer in SEPP, was president of the George C. Marshall Institute.
http://snipurl.com/qttx Google Results 7 from www.marshall.org for
"John Christy" Marshall Institute. Webpages propagating 'erroneous"
data from John Christy have never been corrected or retracted.
* --- TASSC operative Steve Milloy's Junkscience website has
Christy's Junk Science. http://snipurl.com/qtum Google Results 45 from
junkscience.com for "John Christy". Webpages propagating "erroneous"
junk science from John Christy have never been corrected or retracted.
--- Heartland Institute controlled website connects John Christy
to a known TASSC Organized Crime operation, APCO Associates --
http://www.climatesearch.com/newsDetail.cfm?nwsId=54 -- With TASSC
Singer, TASSC Michaels, and TASSC Seitz involvement. APCO created
TASSC as a fraud operation, and still maintains ties with the
operative "whitecoats".
* --- CEI-Registered website www.globalwarming.org has 40 webpages
with John Christy's "erroneous" data. http://snipurl.com/qtw6 Google
Results about 40 from www.globalwarming.org for GlobalWarming.org
"John Christy". Webpages propagating "erroneous" junk science from
John Christy have never been corrected or retracted.
* --- CEI-Registered website http://www.globalwarming.org/sitemap.htm
sitemap has two links that go off-site to TASSC-Ally Fred Seitz's old
lair at George C. Marshall Institute: Brief Synopsis of the Global
Warming Issue, and Guide to Global Warming - Questions and Answers on
Climate Change. The http://www.globalwarming.org/about.htm pretends
that "Consumer Alert" still exists, but the link is a dead parked
page. Further down the page "National Consumer Coalition" link
http://www.consumeralert.org/ncc/index.htm leads to the same dead
parked page. They are not even trying to keep up appearances of all
their phoney front operations any more. They do have a link to their
roots as tobacco fraudsters from the Good Old Days, in The Smoker's
Club website, with Competitive Enterprise Institute clearly on the
bottom of the page. Who knows how many more fly-by-night websites they
have out there posing as citizen's groups and grassroots coalitions?
Saddam's Noose, Exxon's Neck, Same Reason
wrote:
> "Roger Coppock" <rcopp...@adnc.com> wrote
John Christy -- Associate of known TASSC science-fraud felons Patrick
Saddam's Noose, Exxon's Neck, Same Reason
wrote:
> "raylopez99" <raylope...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> > Not only do I read Science Roger, but I vote too, as a member in good
> > standing. And I'm voting for the AGW Sceptic slate.
>
> Ya, but web polls and blogs are as meaningless as you are.
John Christy -- Associate of known TASSC science-fraud felons Patrick
Saddam's Noose, Exxon's Neck, Same Reason
wrote:
> "raylopez99" <raylope...@yahoo.com> wrote
John Christy -- Associate of known TASSC science-fraud felons Patrick
Saddam's Noose, Exxon's Neck, Same Reason
wrote:
John Christy -- Associate of known TASSC science-fraud felons Patrick
Saddam's Noose, Exxon's Neck, Same Reason
John Christy -- Associate of known TASSC science-fraud felons Patrick
Saddam's Noose, Exxon's Neck
wrote:
> "raylopez99" <raylope...@yahoo.com> wrote
John Christy -- Associate of known TASSC science-fraud felons Patrick
Saddam's Noose, Exxon's Neck
wrote:
> "raylopez99" <raylope...@yahoo.com> wrote
John Christy -- Associate of known TASSC science-fraud felons Patrick
Saddam's Noose, Exxon's Neck
wrote:
> "raylopez99" <raylope...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
John Christy -- Associate of known TASSC science-fraud felons Patrick
Saddam's Noose, Exxon's Neck
wrote:
> "Cleopatra_Enterprise_Institute-Queen_of-DeNile" <fernbach2...@yahoo.com>
> wrote
>
> > Lloyd - Do Richardson and Jackson say anything about how sensitive the
> > picoplankton are to changes in temperature and pH?
>
> You don't expect him to have actually read the article do you? That would
> be a first with Lopez.
John Christy -- Associate of known TASSC science-fraud felons Patrick
Saddam's Noose, Exxon's Neck
wrote:
> "raylopez99" <raylope...@yahoo.com> wrote
John Christy -- Associate of known TASSC science-fraud felons Patrick
Saddam's Noose, Exxon's Neck
Saddam's Noose, Exxon's Neck
Saddam's Noose, Exxon's Neck
Joe Fischer
>" The majority of the west Antarctic ice sheet sits atop dry land, while the east Antarctic >ice sheet is grounded below sea level.
>Changes in the east Antarctic sheet would have little effect on sea levels since the ice >displaces water, but a complete melt of
>west Antarctic ice would pour new water into the oceans."
There could be an error there, if more than one-tenth
of the East Antarctic sheet is above sea level, then the fact
that it is grounded below sea level would not mean for
certain that it melting would not raise sea level.
It would seem that a lot of it is above sea level.
Joe Fischer
Crackpot Lemmings Goosestepping Off Cliffs
Apparently you are not qualified to diagnose your own evident
sociopathy.
I conveniently provided a webpage with the most conspicuous symptoms
listed: you don't need them all -- just three is sufficient for a
positive diagnosis.
http://h2-pv.us/Bush-Hitler/Blogspot/Sociopathy.html
DSM-IV-TR Handbook of Differential Diagnosis
by Michael B. First, Allen, MD Frances, Harold Alan, MD Pincus
Paperback: 247 pages
Publisher: American Psychiatric Association; 1st edition (January,
2002)
ISBN: 1585620548
SOCIOPATHY
The DSM-IV-TR, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental disorders,
defines anti-social personality disorder as a pervasive pattern of
disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since
age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:
1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful
behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds
for arrest
2. deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases,
or conning others for personal profit or pleasure
3. impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
4. aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or
assaults
5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others
6. consistent irresponsibility
7. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or
rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another
In this case, we see symptoms #3, lack of future
planning, #2 lying, #4 aggressiveness towards those who can't stop
your
killing them from their position of vulnerability, #5 reckless,
disregard for those damaged by your words and acts, #6 no accepting
responsibility for what you are doing, #7 no remorse, and #1 is known
that you accept the criminal frauds of others and use them to your
purposes, making you a known accessory after the fact.
Did I leave anything out?
Vendicar Decarian
"Vendicar Decarian" <BushIsA...@hotmail.com> wrote
>>> This is the same CATO group that for years claimed that smoking doesn't
>> cause cancer?
"BONZ0" <bon...@optusnt.com.au> wrote
> AND THEY WERE RIGHT!
> SECOND HAND SMOKE DOES NOT CAUSE CANCER!
> iT MIGHT CAUSE OTHER PROBLEMS BUT NOT CANCER.
Because as we all know, smoke exhailed from the lungs and floating about in
the air, has been perfectly cleaned of it's cancer causing chemicals.
"Smoking doeesn't cause cancer." - Rush Limbaugh.
Vendicar Decarian
"BONZ0" <bon...@optusnt.com.au> wrote
> Hey Chicken Little!
And who is claiming that solving the global warming problem will cause
global economic disaster?
Why the Chicken Littles of the world of course. Your camp.
"BONZ0" <bon...@optusnt.com.au> wrote
> An increase in global mean temperature of a few tenths of a degree over
> the last 150 years is NOT
> CLEAR evidence of global climate change!
You are absolutely right. An increase above the observed natural
variability over the past thousand years or so shows clear evidence of
global climate change.
And that is what we have. Now a 1.1'F rise in temperature, which is a
full 50% above the natural level of variability, and a rise that is
increasing in extent and rate of change.
"BONZ0" <bon...@optusnt.com.au> wrote > IT IS NOT GROWING!
Direct measurement tells us that it is. You are a liar.
"BONZ0" <bon...@optusnt.com.au> wrote
> Mean temperatures have actually plateaued since 1998 and have actually
> dropped s litlle since then.
Nope.... Not according to the measurements. Maybe according to your
KKKonservative Political Liedeology.
GLOBAL Land-Ocean Temperature Index in .01 C
ources: GHCN 1880-01/2007 + SST:
Annual mean J-D
1981 27 ..........................
1982 5 .....
1983 26 ..........................
1984 9 .........
1985 6 ......
1986 13 .............
1987 27 ...........................
1988 31 ...............................
1989 19 ...................
1990 38 ......................................
1991 35 ...................................
1992 13 .............
1993 14 ..............
1994 24 ........................
1995 38 ......................................
1996 30 ..............................
1997 40 ........................................
1998 57 .........................................................
1999 33 .................................
2000 33 .................................
2001 48 .................................................
2002 56 ........................................................
2003 55 .......................................................
2004 49 .................................................
2005 63 ...............................................................
2006 54 ......................................................
Here is the trend line. Up, Up, Up... Not a plateau in sight.
1998 57 .....................................O...................
1999 33 ................................. O
2000 33 ................................. O
2001 48 .............................................O...
2002 56 ..................................................O.....
2003 55 .....................................................O.
2004 49 ................................................. O
2005 63 ..........................................................O....
2006 54 ...................................................... O
Vendicar Decarian
"BONZ0" <bon...@optusnt.com.au> wrote
> The Antarctic ice has been receding for 20,000 years.
> IT IS A NATURAL PROCESS AS THE FOLLOWING ARTICLE EXPLAINS ...
It has? That's odd, because your Denialist brothers have been claiming
for the last several years that the
ice caps have been expanding.
Ahahahahahaha... You people just can't make up your minds now can you?
From your own reference:
> "About 12,000 years ago, it began a dramatic retreat," Bindschadler said.
> "We're not sure if the retreat is still taking place -- that's one of the
> main questions we're trying to
> answer."
What makes you sure Denialist? That Exxon seamen in your mouth?
Lack of sea ice devastates seal populations
18:32 28 March 2007
Thousands of harp seal pups have died in eastern Canada due to a lack of
ice
floes, caused by global warming, conservationists say. An entire population
of
the seals could be wiped out if Canada’s annual seal hunt goes ahead, they
warn.
Warmer sea temperatures in the southern Gulf of St. Lawrence have led to a
lack
of ice cover. It means mother seals cannot climb onto the ice as usual and
are
instead forced to give birth at sea, where the pups drown.
Normally hunters go onto the sea ice in the Gulf in late March to club or
shoot
young seals for their pelts. They also harvest organs for Chinese medicine.
So
far, unusually, Canada’s Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO) has not
announced the number of seals hunters will be allowed to take this year,
apparently due to uncertainties caused by the lack of ice. The announcement
is
expected later this week.
“I’ve been flying over the area for two days and I’ve seen hardly any seals
where we normally see thousands,” says Sheryl Fink of the International Fund
for
Animal Welfare. “I’ve never seen so little ice. There’s none,” she told New
Scientist.
She fears all the seals in the southern Gulf might have lost their pups,
making
this the biggest abrupt die-off of mammals due to global warming yet.
Disaster looms
It could get worse. There is an area of ice in the northern Gulf, where
government scientists have reported about 15,000 seals – far fewer than
usual.
“If they let the hunt go ahead, all the hunters will go there. The seals
will be
very concentrated and easy to reach because there’s so little ice.”
That could be disastrous. In 2002, DFO estimates, 75% of pups in the Gulf
died
when there was also very little ice. Many of the seals giving birth this
year
were born then. “If we now kill off their few remaining pups, it could have
a
serious impact,” says Fink. “We could be heading for the extirpation of harp
seals in the Gulf.”
One third of Canada’s annual seal hunt takes place in the Gulf, with the
rest
further north along the coast of Newfoundland and Labrador in April. This
year,
the sea ice in those regions is reduced, but adequate, so the hunt should be
unaffected.
In 2006, Canada allowed the killing of 335,000 seals. Some scientists say
that
will reduce seal numbers, but will not, as people in the hard-hit region
hope,
revive the collapsed cod fisheries.
Vendicar Decarian
"BONZ0" <bon...@optusnt.com.au> wrote
> NASA Animates 20,000 Years Of Antarctic Ice History
Antarctic melting may be speeding up
------------------------------------
- Michael Byrnes - Fri Mar 23, 3:42 PM ET
HOBART (Reuters) - Rising sea levels and melting polar ice-sheets are at
upper
limits of projections, leaving some human population centers already unable
to
cope, top world scientists say as they analyze latest satellite data.
A United Nations report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
(IPCC) in February projected sea level gains of 18-59 centimeters (7-23
inches)
this century from temperature rises of 1.8-4.0 Celsius (3.2-7.8 Fahrenheit).
"Observations are in the very upper edge of the projections," leading
Australian
marine scientist John Church told Reuters.
"I feel that we're getting uncomfortably close to threshold," said Church,
of
Australia's CSIRO Marine and Atmospheric Research said.
Past this level, parts of the Antarctic and Greenland would approach a
virtually
irreversible melting that would produce sea level rises of meters, he said.
There has been no repeat in the Antarctic of the 2002 break-up of part of
the
Larsen ice shelf that created a 500 billion ton iceberg as big as
Luxembourg.
But the Antarctic Peninsula is warming faster than anywhere else on Earth,
and
glaciers are in massive retreat.
"There have been doomsday scenarios that west Antarctica could collapse
quite
quickly. And there's six meters of sea level in west Antarctica," says Tas
van
Ommen, a glaciologist at the Hobart-based Australian Antarctic Division.
Doomsday has not yet arrived.
But even in east Antarctica, which is insulated from global warming by
extreme
cold temperatures and high-altitudes, new information shows the height of
the
Tottenham Glacier near Australia's Casey Base has fallen by 10 meters over
15-16
years.
MELTING POLES
Scientists say massive glacier retreat at Heard Island, 1,000 km (620 miles)
north of Antarctica, is an example of how fringe areas of the polar region
are
melting.
The break-up of ice in Antarctica to create icebergs is also opening
pathways
for accelerated flows to the sea by glaciers.
Church pointed out that sea levels were 4-6 meters higher more than 100,000
years ago when temperatures were at levels expected to be reached at the end
of
this century.
Dynamic ice-flows could add 25 percent to IPCC forecasts of sea level rise,
van
Ommen said.
Australian scientist John Hunter, who has focused on historical sea level
information, said that to keep the sea water out, communities would need to
begin raising sea walls.
"There's lots of places where you can't do that and where you'll have to put
up
with actual flooding," he said.
This was already happening in the south of England, where local councils and
governments could not afford to protect all areas from sea water erosion as
land
continued to sink.
About 100 million people around the world live within a meter of the
present-day
sea level, CSIRO Marine Research senior principal research scientist Steve
Rintoul said. "Those 100 million people will need to go somewhere," he said.
Worse, every meter of sea level rise causes an inland recession of around
100
meters (300 feet) and more erosion occurs with every storm.
"You can't just say we'll just put sea walls," Hunter said.
Phil Hays
West Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS) is on land below sea level. Melting would
add to sea level as the ice is a lot thicker than the depth of the water.
East Antarctic ice sheet is on land mostly above sea level. It is rather
bigger, and more stable than WAIS.
http://www.radix.net/~bobg/faqs/sea.level.faq.html
--
Phil Hays
Vendicar Decarian
"Phil Hays" <inv...@dont.spam> wrote
> West Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS) is on land below sea level. Melting would
> add to sea level as the ice is a lot thicker than the depth of the water.
>
> East Antarctic ice sheet is on land mostly above sea level. It is rather
> bigger, and more stable than WAIS.
>
> http://www.radix.net/~bobg/faqs/sea.level.faq.html
In addition to just the rise caused by the melting ice, the ground itself
will rebound upward with the removal of the downward pressure of the now
removed ice. This will have the effect of displacing more water at the
south pole and lowering ground levels relative to the higher ocean
elsewhere.
It's a tripple negative whammy.