Bullets Don't Just Fall out of Wounds
lazu...@webtv.net
In mid-1966 Ray Marcus published a 77- page monograph entitled: "The
Bastard Bullet: A search for Legitimacy for Commission Exhibit 399". In
John Kelin's "Praise for a Future Generation" he states that "Marcus was
certain that CE 399 was not legitimate and that the single-bullet theory
was invalid.
----"The weight of the evidence, Marcus wrote, tended to prove that CE
399 was not involved in wounding Governor Connolly.
----" That the bullet might even have fallen from Connolly's thigh
raised questions. Marcus consulted six experts who between them had
examined 15,000 bullet wounds. None had ever had a case of a bullet
falling from a wound, or had ever heard of such a thing happening."
Yet like the JET (jet effect theory) this FBT (falling bullet theory ,
happening only once in history is therefore true.
Here's my take on it. The "bullet" penetrated JBC's left medial thigh
for a distance of approximately two inches in order to deposit a
fragment on the femur, which still remains in the body to this day.
In order for CE 399 to deposit any fragment here whatsoever it had to
enter the thigh base-end first. However, after a bullet enters flesh to
a depth greater than the length of the missile, the surrounding tissue
tends to close in around the bullet, not allowing it to magically worm
its way back out the way it entered and simply "fall out" of the wound.
As Harold Weisberg wondered, "How did the bullet fall
uphill?!!"------Old Laz
curtjester1
A nice point Old Laz. Of course nothing like this has ever come up
like this in any murder case of note that I know of, a bullet going
through two well-sized men with clothing, and virtually coming out
unscathed without any residue on it. Just with your point on the
fragment left in the femur and what was left from the bullet, plus
what might be left in all other parts of the two men, might even
stretch the most prejudice of imaginations.
CJ
Bud
At least not in any of the comic books you`ve read, which I`m sure
is as far as you`ve reasearched this phenomenon.
And how do you know there was no residue on the bullet when it was
found?
Bud
lazuli...@webtv.net wrote:
> In mid-1966 Ray Marcus published a 77- page monograph entitled: "The
> Bastard Bullet: A search for Legitimacy for Commission Exhibit 399". In
> John Kelin's "Praise for a Future Generation" he states that "Marcus was
> certain that CE 399 was not legitimate and that the single-bullet theory
> was invalid.
> ----"The weight of the evidence, Marcus wrote, tended to prove that CE
> 399 was not involved in wounding Governor Connolly.
> ----" That the bullet might even have fallen from Connolly's thigh
> raised questions. Marcus consulted six experts who between them had
> examined 15,000 bullet wounds. None had ever had a case of a bullet
> falling from a wound, or had ever heard of such a thing happening."
Perhaps they should learn to Google. Heres one a case I found...
"Unknown to the forensic nurse, the bullet had dislodged into the
bandages. While the projectile was later discovered in the trash, the
evidence was inadmissible because it could not be traced to the
victim."
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Forensic+nursing%3A+an+aid+to+law+enforcement-a0143342209
I also found an article entitled "Don`t destroy the Evidence" to a
medical publication by a trauma nurse named Jane M. Vick, which
contained suggested guidelines for nurses handling gunshot victims. It
contained the following...
"With gunshot victims, be alert for bullets loose in the clothing
or on the gurney. Bullets may have exited the body and been caught in
the clothing the victim was wearing."
Strange she would urge caution for something that never occurs.
Walt
Good post, Laz
I believe there is some law of nature involved in this ....... cuz it
just seems crazy that a bullet could penetrate a couple of inches into
muscle and then just fall out of the wound.
Walt
lazu...@webtv.net
Bullet."
bigdog
> Thanks Walt and Curt. I suppose that's why they call it" The Magic
> Bullet."
Maybe you should tell this to the CTs who believe CE399 only
penetrated JFK's back a few inches and then fell out. Apparently that
is possible even though a bullet striking JFK in the back would have
been much closer to traveling at muzzle velocity than a bullet
striking JBC's thigh after passing through two torsos and a wrist.
It's not that CTs don't believe in magic bullets, just not the WC's
"magic bullet" which requires no magic whatsoever.
Gil Jesus
>
> Maybe you should tell this to the CTs who believe CE399 only
> penetrated JFK's back a few inches and then fell out. Apparently that
> is possible even though a bullet striking JFK in the back would have
> been much closer to traveling at muzzle velocity than a bullet
> striking JBC's thigh after passing through two torsos and a wrist.
> It's not that CTs don't believe in magic bullets, just not the WC's
> "magic bullet" which requires no magic whatsoever.
Wrong again poochie:
A bullet that had hit the street first and ricocheted UPWARD into
JFK's back could have certainly "fallen" out of his back during heart
massage at Parkland. That wound wasn't even an inch deep and with
Kennedy on his back and the wound facing DOWNWARD, the constant moving
of the torso with the help of gravity would have made it entirely
possible.
Connally's leg wound was never massaged and it never was in position
where the wound was facing DOWNWARD. So how did the bullet fall UP ?
Besides, as I have documented time and time again, the man who found
the bullet, Darrell Tomlinson, said that the stretcher he found the
bullet on was NOT Connally's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA68-rlXVIY
So are you gonna believe what "they" said he "said", or are you going
to believe what he said ?
David Von Pein
The BBT ("Bouncing Bullet Theory")!
Yippee! Another crackpot hunk of anti-SBT lunacy from a kook!
So, Gil's now got a bullet bouncing off of the Elm pavement and then
going on to hit, by pure coincidence, THE VERY SAME PERSON FOR WHOM
THE BULLET WAS INTENDED (John F. Kennedy).
The above nuttiness is similar in nature to Jim Bishop's theory that
has JFK being peppered in the face with grains of concrete and/or
bullet fragments. Bishop has the concrete spraying ONLY the intended
victim himself--a remarkable occurrence/coincidence indeed, as nobody
else in the limo is "sprayed" by a single granule of the "concrete/
bullet shower".
And then Gil's got a separate bullet, of course, entering JFK's neck
from the front, and never exiting, with that bullet magically
disappearing (as per all unwanted, unseen 'CT' bullets in the case,
naturally).
So, via the Bouncing Bullet Theory and the Disappearing Throat Bullet
Theory, Gil ends up with a remarkable-looking wound pattern to make
the "SBT" a feasible option after the assassination. Again, just
incredible luck for those multiple shooters in Dealey Plaza who need
ONLY Lee Harvey Oswald fingered for a shooting that is evidently being
attempted by a group of idiots who decided to forge ahead with a
multi-
shooter assassination attempt, despite having just ONE single "patsy"
at their disposal in the Book Depository.
Go figure that moronic decision. I've never been able to yet. But I'll
bet the kooks have a logical and reasonable explanation for such a
loony plot being set in motion in the days, weeks, and months prior to
November 22, 1963. Right, Gil?
So, the unseen/unknown "conspirators/henchmen" got lucky (yet again),
when a bullet bounced off the street to strike Kennedy at just the
proper spot on his body in order to make it look like the SBT could
work (when coupled with that other gunman's weak-sister frontal/throat
shot, which, like the upper-back bullet, for some crazy reason never
went through JFK's body either). It must have been a 2-MPH dart, huh?
To summarize.......
The conspiracy-happy Mega-Kooks of this world will choose ANY silly
option to account for JFK's and JBC's wounds, just so long as they
don't ever have to face the Occam's-like solution called the "SBT".
The kooks would rather starve themselves to skeletons and sleep on the
benches in Dealey Plaza for the rest of their days before admitting
that the SBT is the correct shooting scenario.
No matter how stupid and retarded their theory might be, it's never
TOO stupid or retarded for the anti-SBT Mega-Kooks of planet
Earth...just as long as the letters "SBT" never have to be uttered as
a viable alternative.
This, of course, is similar in nature to the "Anybody But Oswald"
disease that many CTers suffer from. As long as LHO can escape with
his skirts tidy and clean, then the kooks are happy.
=============================================
"In the balmy and unhinged conspiracy universe, no evidence of
guilt is stronger against someone than that he isn't Lee Harvey
Oswald." -- Vince Bugliosi; Page 929 of "RH"
=============================================
muc...@gmail.com
Ben Holmes considers Gil competent and intelligent. I tend to disagree
with Ben's assessment.
justm...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
The "BBT" (Bouncing Bullet Theory) brought to you by the makers of
Silly Putty. Just add a dab of Silly Putty to the nose of your bullet
and watch it bounce along on it's merry way striking only what you
want it too. Never worry about foresnic science finding out where the
shot was fired from.
With the new "BBT" from Silly Putty even YOU can become and
assassin!!!!
(Not sold to children under the age of 5)
The only thing Jesus is competent and intelligent about is tying his
own shoes...oops forgot, he has the ones with velcro! Well DVP...he
never disappoints us, another hair brain idea from the empty head of
Gil Chico Jesus. ROFLMAO
aeffects
> On Dec 7, 4:56�am, bigdog <jecorbett1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Maybe you should tell this to the CTs who believe CE399 only
> > penetrated JFK's back a few inches and then fell out. Apparently that
> > is possible even though a bullet striking JFK in the back would have
> > been much closer to traveling at muzzle velocity than a bullet
> > striking JBC's thigh after passing through two torsos and a wrist.
> > It's not that CTs don't believe in magic bullets, just not the WC's
> > "magic bullet" which requires no magic whatsoever.
>
> Wrong again poochie:
>
> A bullet that had hit the street first and ricocheted UPWARD into
> JFK's back could have certainly "fallen" out of his back during heart
> massage at Parkland. That wound wasn't even an inch deep and with
> Kennedy on his back and the wound facing DOWNWARD, the constant moving
> of the torso with the help of gravity would have made it entirely
> possible.
>
> Connally's leg wound was never massaged and it never was in position
> where the wound was facing DOWNWARD. So how did the bullet fall UP ?
>
> Besides, as I have documented time and time again, the man who found
> the bullet, Darrell Tomlinson, said that the stretcher he found the
> bullet on was NOT Connally's.
not only THAT Gil, didn't a FBI or SS agent recently say, the bullet
Tomilson turned over to him at Parkland Hospital 11/22/63 in no way
resembles what we know today as the "pristine 6.5mm magic bullet"
robcap...@netscape.com
"Unknown to the forensic nurse, the bullet had dislodged into the
bandages. While the projectile was later discovered in the trash, the
evidence was inadmissible because it could not be traced to the
victim."
This statement should go under the word "Irony" in the dictionary as
it is just that. Finally the WC finds something inadmissible because
its origins "can not be traced to the victim." I think it is this
projectile could not be traced to the Carcano is more like it, since
they showed no worry about lack of custodianship for many other items
that made LHO look guilty.
>
> http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Forensic+nursing%3A+an+aid+to+law+enfor...
David Von Pein
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/8ce01f58c25e19d1
>>> "Finally the WC finds something inadmissible because its origins "can not be traced to the victim"." <<<
But the example Bud gave is probably not the same as the situation
that exists to irrevocably tie Bullet CE399 to John Connally and the
JFK assassination. (Although, I'll admit, I didn't study the link he
provided in depth; perhaps the details of that gunshot-victim case are
explained in the link.)
But my guess is that the bullet in Bud's example was probably never
traced to a particular weapon (probably because the weapon was never
found after the shooting incident, which is very common, of course). I
could be wrong, but if I am wrong about that, then it seems silly to
say that a bullet tied to a particular gun "cannot be traced to the
victim" (assuming, that is, that the weapon it was traced to was
connected to the gunman, which also assumes that the gunman was caught
too; lots of gaps to fill in regarding that case that Bud brought up).
But in the JFK case, CE399 can positively be "traced to the
victim" (via just common sense, if nothing else). But there's so much
more beyond just that "CS" factor as well. Such as.....
1.) CE399 is positively a bullet from Lee Harvey Oswald's C2766 MC
rifle.
2.) Oswald's C2766 rifle was positively used to fire bullets at
President Kennedy's car on 11/22/63. Bullet fragments from LHO's rifle
found in the limousine itself (CE567 and CE569) prove this fact
conclusively and beyond all possible doubt.
3.) Oswald's C2766 rifle was found in the Book Depository 52 minutes
after the shooting.
4.) CE399 was found inside the same hospital where shooting victims
JFK and JBC were taken.
5.) John Connally was shot in the upper back by one bullet.
6.) No whole bullets (and very, very few bullet fragments) were found
in JBC's body at Parkland Hospital.
7.) John Connally's stretcher was positively one of the two stretchers
that was located in the hallway at Parkland Hospital when CE399 was
found by Darrell Tomlinson sometime between 1:00 PM and 1:45 PM CST
(approx.) on November 22nd.
8.) The non-Connally stretcher in the hallway belonged to Parkland
patient Ronnie Fuller, who was definitely NOT SHOT BY ONE OF LEE
HARVEY OSWALD'S CARCANO BULLETS ON 11/22/63.
9.) JFK's stretcher was never in the area of Parkland Hospital where
the bullet was found by Tomlinson.
10.) JFK himself was never physically located in the area of Parkland
Hospital where the bullet was found by Tomlinson.
==============
Adding up #1 through #10 above = Bullet CE399, although not plucked
directly from the body of John Bowden Connally Jr. on Friday, November
the 22nd, 1963, can be "traced to the victim" (JBC) via ample amounts
of physical circumstantial evidence that ties Oswald's bullet (CE399)
to at least one of LHO's two victims (Governor Connally) beyond a
reasonable doubt.
=========================================================
WAS BULLET CE399 "PLANTED" IN PARKLAND HOSPITAL? (PART 1):
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/84689b600ce41d68
WAS BULLET CE399 "PLANTED" IN PARKLAND HOSPITAL? (PART 2):
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/bceb46435b39817f
THE ODD (BUT ALMOST CERTAINLY TRUE) JOURNEY OF BULLET CE399:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/c565d3b4c930a683
TOO MANY CE399 BULLET FRAGMENTS IN JOHN CONNALLY? HARDLY:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/7bf79593cce78406
IF BULLET CE399 DIDN'T INJURE GOVERNOR CONNALLY, WHAT BULLET DID?:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/f90802d6225a380e
=========================================================
lazu...@webtv.net
"With gunshot victims be alert for bullets loose in the clothing or on
the gurney. Bullets may have exited the body and been caught in the
clothing the victim was wearing."
Sure enough, IF "bullets have exited the body", that implies that the
bullet went on thru the body or body part, which of course does not
apply in the JBC case, wherein the "bullet" penetrated two inches of
flesh, struck bone and retreated out the wound then falling uphill, to
be later discovered in the hallway, far from the body, not caught in the
victim's clothing.
Also, you have to consider the great disparity in caliber, etc of
bullets. A small caliber may strike a part of the body where heavy bone
lies just under the skin, and that missile may not penetrate its own
length into the body, therefore the tissue will not close around it, and
it may fall out of the wound. This example also does not apply to the
JBC case, you'll have to agree.
So the argument cannot be made that an FMJ will penetrate two inches of
flesh, reverse momentum and simply pop back out of the wound, falling
uphill in the process. No expert has demonstrated this yet, and I'm
afraid you will be unable to find one.Even Lattimer didn't attempt this
feat.
But a fragment as the cause of JBC's leg wound---well, that's another
matter---and a far more plausible argument, IMHO----Old Laz
Bud
lazuli...@webtv.net wrote:
> Bud quotes an excerpt from the guidelines for trauma nurses:
>
> "With gunshot victims be alert for bullets loose in the clothing or on
> the gurney. Bullets may have exited the body and been caught in the
> clothing the victim was wearing."
>
> Sure enough, IF "bullets have exited the body", that implies that the
> bullet went on thru the body or body part, which of course does not
> apply in the JBC case, wherein the "bullet" penetrated two inches of
> flesh, struck bone and retreated out the wound then falling uphill, to
> be later discovered in the hallway, far from the body, not caught in the
> victim's clothing.
>
> Also, you have to consider the great disparity in caliber, etc of
> bullets. A small caliber may strike a part of the body where heavy bone
> lies just under the skin, and that missile may not penetrate its own
> length into the body, therefore the tissue will not close around it, and
> it may fall out of the wound. This example also does not apply to the
> JBC case, you'll have to agree.
Why? The article didn`t specify what type of exiting. And what of
the other example I gave, one where a slug worked it`s way out of a
wound?
> So the argument cannot be made that an FMJ will penetrate two inches of
> flesh, reverse momentum and simply pop back out of the wound, falling
> uphill in the process.
Just kookshit, with the only purpose to give kooks the green light
to entertain fantasy. If you don`t know when the bullet popped out,
you don`t know if it was uphill. Also, there are things under the skin
called "muscles" that when flexed could exert force on objects under
the skin against them.
bigdog
Damn, David, you beat me to this one. I could have had so much fun
with this. That's the trouble when you have satellite internet access.
A snowstorm covers my dish and I'm disconnected from the world until
it melts away.
bigdog
I wonder if Oswald called his bank shot. I can just hear him telling
Bonnie Ray Williams, "OK on this shot off the pavement, over the
trunk, right into JFK's back". BRW responds, "Five'll get you ten".