Debating The John F. Kennedy Assassination (Part 12)
David Von Pein
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SUBJECT -- The JFK Assassination: The Ongoing "Lone Assassin vs.
Conspiracy" Debate.
FEATURED TEXT -- Archived JFK Forum Messages From February 2006, March
2006, June 2006, November 2006, and March 2007.
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CTer (A CONSPIRACY THEORIST) -- {Lee Harvey} Oswald's ties with the
Soviet Union make me suspicious that they put him up to killing
Kennedy.
DVP (DAVID VON PEIN) -- And via such a plot, Oswald was just willing
to use his own rifle to murder the President, huh? And was willing to
leave that traceable weapon in the building after doing the deed?
Now, yes, I believe Oswald did do those two things -- but it ONLY
makes sense if he was acting alone, with nobody pulling his strings.
In the context of Oswald willingly going to the 6th Floor of the Texas
School Book Depository and murdering a U.S. President at the behest of
another party/entity/Government, there is no way he's going to use his
own gun in the crime.
In the "LN" scenario, however, Oswald merely used what was available
to him (which was his own traceable Mannlicher-Carcano rifle).
Via the "Soviet" scenario, you'd have to believe one of two things
occurred on 11/22/63:
1.) Oswald was dumber than the dumbest box of rocks (and willingly
stepped right on in to the Soviet Union's perfect "Patsy" plan).
-- Or: --
2.) In a Non-Patsy-Framing scenario, these crackerjack Soviet Union
behind-the-scenes assassination-planners were so impoverished and
destitute they just simply could not afford to furnish their assassin
(Oswald) with a weapon with which to shoot their U.S. adversary....and
forced Oswald, instead, to use his own 21-dollar and somewhat-shabby
bolt-action carbine to pull off the most important "hit" these Russian
bums will ever attempt in their rotten lives.
I ask -- Is either choice above within the realm of reasonable
probability?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/8845d85a86407d31
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CTer -- "The reason I knew that Oswald could not have done it, was
because I could not have done it," said former Marine sniper Craig
Roberts.
DVP -- Yeah, I love meaningless comments like that.
"Oswald couldn't do it because I couldn't."
-- or: --
"Oswald couldn't do it because he missed General Walker."
-- or: --
"Oswald couldn't do it because he was born on a Wednesday."
In other words: The conspiracy buffs choose to just ignore ALL THE
PHYSICAL EVIDENCE that leads back to one man (the man who "couldn't do
it").
I have my doubts that the New York Mets actually won the 1969 World
Series ... because they'd never won before. No way they won that
Series! Couldn't have happened! And Oswald couldn't have shot JFK
either. He'd never shot a President from 60 feet up before; so he
couldn't have done it in '63. Right?
In a word -- Horsefeathers!
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CTer -- {Tippit witnesses Virginia and Barbara Davis} did indeed call
the police first, after hearing gunfire.
DVP -- That idea stems from Virginia Davis' testimony, when she said
that a phone call to the police had already been made from her house
before the two Davis ladies saw Lee Harvey Oswald cutting across their
yard following the shooting of Officer Tippit.
Virginia seemed a bit confused as to the exact time when the police
were called from the Davis residence....but let's examine this thing
logically, step-by-step:
1.) Both Davis women heard gunshots from outside their home.
2.) A man whom both Barbara Davis and Virginia Davis later positively
identified as Lee Harvey Oswald was then seen (by both Davis women)
walking briskly through the Davis' yard as he dumped empty bullet
cartridges onto the property.
3.) The police were called from the Davis house at some point after
the women heard the gunshots.
Now, unless Oswald was crawling on his hands and knees and moving
slower than Grandma Moses on crutches, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY
(realistically) that the Davis women could have had time to call the
police PRIOR to their seeing Oswald cut across their lawn. No way.
There was simply not enough time available.
Given the fact that Oswald obviously didn't just stand around on 10th
Street for a few minutes picking lint out of his belly-button after
killing a policeman in front of multiple eyewitnesses, the phone call
to the police from the Davis abode must have occurred AFTER Oswald had
cut through the Davis' yard.
Of course, in reality, it doesn't make a solitary bit of difference
exactly when the police were phoned from the Davis residence, because
both women later IDed Oswald as the man they had seen unloading a gun
while cutting across their front and side yards on November 22, 1963.
CTers like to paint any slight inconsistency in witness testimony as
something "shady" or "conspiratorial"....even when they haven't a leg
to stand on when so doing. (Like in this totally-meaningless "When
Were The Police Called?" instance.)
Let me also add this.....
Based on each of the two Davis ladies' 11/22/63 affidavits, it's
crystal-clear that the police were called from the Davis apartment
house only AFTER the Davises had seen Oswald cut across their yard.
Let's have a look at the key portions of these two affidavits:
"I heard a shot and jumped up and heard another shot. I put on my
shoes and went to the door and I saw this man walking across my front
yard unloading a gun. A woman was standing across the street screaming
that 'he shot him, he killed him' and pointed towards a police
car. ... I ran back in the house and called the operator and reported
this to the police. ... The #2 man in a 4-man lineup was the same man
I saw in my yard, also the one that was unloading the gun." -- Signed,
Barbara Jeanette Davis; 11/22/63
~~~~~
"We heard a shot and then another shot and ran to the side door at
Patton Street. I saw the boy cutting across our yard and he was
unloading his gun. We walked outside and a woman was hollering 'he's
dead, he's dead, he's shot'. This woman told Jeanette {Barbara Davis}
to call the police; and she did. I saw the officer that had been shot
lying on Tenth Street after Jeanette had called the police. Jeanette
found {an} empty shell that the man had unloaded and gave it to the
police. ... The man that was unloading the gun was the same man I saw
tonight as number 2 man in a lineup." -- Signed, Mrs. Virginia Davis;
11/22/63
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bdavis.htm
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/vdavis.htm
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0130a.htm
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0130b.htm
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0128b.htm
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CTer -- What about the other guys who brought their rifles to work?
DVP -- And just how many of those other boys brought their rifles to
work ON THE DAY OF THE ASSASSINATION, broken down into pieces, and
wrapped in brown paper?
And how many of those warehouse boys claimed their rifles were
"curtain rods"?
Was there any reason for Oswald to tell lies about the contents of his
package if he was merely bringing his gun to work for "show-and-tell"
purposes?
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CTer -- More witnesses said the shots came from the grassy knoll than
from the TSBD.
DVP -- Totally untrue. On a simple "Front vs. Rear" basis, there were
certainly more "Rear" witnesses than "Front" ones. With "Rear", of
course, including the Book Depository.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/shots4.jpg
And one major fact that CTers will never be able to fully (and
believably) reconcile is the incredibly-low percentage of witnesses
who said they heard gunshots from BOTH the front and the rear of the
President's limousine, which is almost a non-existent percentile of
earwitnesses (which is an incredible thing indeed, if we're to believe
Oliver Stone's or Bob Groden's widely-accepted nonsense purporting 3
or 4 separate gunmen spread out all through Dealey Plaza).
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/shots.htm
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CTer -- You are describing evidence against one of the shooters, which
was found in the only building that the police happened to search.
DVP -- Well, yeah, that's correct. (I think a "Duh!" might prove
useful here as well.)
I guess CTers think the police were supposed to start searching every
inch of the Courthouse, the Dal-Tex Building, and the Trade Mart too,
even though there wasn't a single logical reason to do so...right?
Nobody claimed to hear shots from any other locations other than the
TSBD or the Grassy Knoll area; and both were searched....with the only
evidence of a gunman turning up in the Depository Building.
As lawyer Vincent Bugliosi is wont to say -- "What were the police
supposed to do....PRETEND that evidence existed elsewhere other than
where they found it and start chasing unknown, unseen killers? That's
crazy talk!" (Paraphrasing from Vince's O.J. Simpson video series; c.
1999.)
Anyhow, I have a strong feeling that even if every last square inch of
Dallas had been thoroughly searched by Sherlock Holmes himself on
11/22/63, and nothing had been found except in the TSBD, rabid CTers
would still find some convenient excuse to work their make-believe
"conspiracy" into the proceedings.
After all, what good is the truth when a conspiracy can be
manufactured from nothingness by scrutinizing to death every
microscopic detail of the crime, and then have the CT-Kooks highlight
with bold magic marker every tiny discrepancy they find (no matter how
well these discrepancies were explained at a later time in non-
conspiratorial ways)?
Some verbatim quotes from Vince Bugliosi this time:
"It couldn't be more obvious that there was no gunman at the Grassy
Knoll. No one SAW anybody with a rifle in that area. No weapon nor
expended cartridges from a weapon were found there. It didn't happen.
"Let's get into the mechanics -- who was this other gunman who, on the
day of the assassination, made his way into the Book Depository
Building, carrying a rifle....went up to the sixth floor....shot and
killed the President....made his way back down to the first
floor....and escaped without leaving a trace?
"How, in fact, if Oswald were innocent, did they GET Oswald, within
forty-five minutes of the assassination, to murder Officer Tippit? Or
was he framed for that murder too?!!
"As surely as I am standing here, as surely as night follows day, Lee
Harvey Oswald -- acting alone -- was responsible for the murder of
President John F. Kennedy." -- VB; 1986
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/b3a8181c73cfa095
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CTer -- Can you provide a shred of evidence which isolates Oswald as
the only sniper?
DVP -- This must be some kind of trick question. Gotta be. Because
nobody could be serious when asking such a lame question.
But, I guess I'll have to bite....
EVERY "shred" of PHYSICAL EVIDENCE "isolates Oswald as the only
sniper". Every piece.
To turn the tables, I'll now ask: What PHYSICAL EVIDENCE OF A
CONSPIRACY (e.g., guns, bullets, bullet shells, fingerprints, and
clothing fibers) can you provide to show that a conspiracy existed
with respect to JFK's assassination in 1963?
I'm still waiting for that first piece of "C.T. PHYSICAL EVIDENCE" to
show up. Will it arrive sometime before the 100th anniversary of the
crime in 2063?
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CTer -- You ignore the fact that many lone-gunman books do indeed
present conspiracy arguments.
DVP -- With the Warren Commission Report itself being one such
excellent example. 18.5% of the Warren Report is devoted solely to the
subject of "Investigation Of Possible Conspiracy" (164 of 888 pages,
including the 32-page "Speculations And Rumors" Appendix).
I often wonder if many (or any) CTers are aware of the above-mentioned
statistics regarding the WR?
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0134a.htm
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0331a.htm
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CTer -- What part of "occipital" don't you understand, Davey-boy?
DVP -- And what part of "somewhat" don't you understand, Mr.
Conspiracy Kook?
NONE of the autopsy doctors (in any of their official testimony) ever
placed the large JFK head (exit) wound anywhere except on the RIGHT-
FRONT-TOP area of the head. Never the "rear" or "back".
There's also, of course, the Offical JFK Autopsy Report itself (signed
by all three of the autopsists), which clearly indicates that
President Kennedy was shot only TWICE, with both shots coming from
"behind" and "above" the President.
Allow me to quote from the Autopsy Report directly (a document that
most conspiracy theorists must think is a complete fabrication from
Word One; because if it's not, then there's no doubt whatsoever that
JFK was shot only twice and only from behind).....
"It is our opinion that the deceased died as a result of two
perforating gunshot wounds inflicted by high-velocity projectiles
fired by a person or persons unknown. The projectiles were fired from
a point behind and somewhat above the level of the deceased. .... The
fatal missile entered the skull above and to the right of the external
occipital protuberance. .... A portion of the projectile made its exit
through the parietal bone on the right carrying with it portions of
cerebrum, skull and scalp." -- Via Official Autopsy Report of
Assassinated U.S. President John F. Kennedy
~~~~~
So, tell me again, Mr. CTer, how all three autopsy doctors were
rotten, lying cover-up agents? I like hearing that theory...over and
over again. It's a howl.