OSWALD'S LONE GUILT -- BALLISTICALLY-SPEAKING
David Von Pein
>>> "People get lucky, but what I am saying is that your scenario requires as many, or more, presuppositions as most CTs." <<<
DVP SAYS:
It requires NO "presuppositions" in point of fact.
Why?
Because the physical evidence left behind by the murder weapon TELLS
US that Oswald's rifle (crappy as it may have been) was the ONLY
weapon
that fired any bullets that hit anyone in JFK's car on 11/22.
Similar to the useless CT arguments re. the Tippit murder (that
argument being: Oswald couldn't have gotten to 10th St. in time to
shoot Tippit) .... a similar type of CT argument proves to be totally
useless and moot with respect to the JFK murder weapon as well (with
that invalid CT argument being: Oswald's rifle could not possibly have
been the gun used to kill JFK because it was a rusty, defective,
mis-aligned POS that only cost $21.45).
Neither of the above arguments is worth a hill of beans ... because of
OTHER HARD EVIDENCE that trumps both CT arguments 100%.
There is still, to this day, ZERO hunks of physical ballistics
evidence that indicates any weapon other than Oswald's M-C rifle hit
anyone on Nov. 22nd.
Which, therefore, still indicates to this day that if a multi-gun
conspiracy existed in Dealey Plaza (as virtually all CTers believe),
there was a wide-sweeping, comprehensive, grab-every-non-LHO-bullet
cover-up job performed by XX number of conspirators after the fact --
including the EXTRA, unexpected task of getting rid of XX number of
bullets that hit a person (JBC) other than the intended target.
And these plotters did it all just perfectly, per most CT accounts,
even though Connally and Kennedy could very well have had XX number of
missiles stuck inside them when they arrived at Parkland.*
* = And they DID have multiple NON-OSWALD bullets inside them too, per
CT accounts of events --- e.g., JFK's neck bullet, caused by some
oddball low-powered weapon....plus JFK's back-wound bullet, again
caused by a low-powered weapon evidently, since it only goes into him
a couple of inches; these wounds make NO sense from the assassins'
POV, because why on Earth would any pro assassins shoot TWO dum-dum
type of non-fatal bullets at the target; that's pure stupidity....plus
the XX number of bullets that CTers say pelted Gov. Connally, which
were all never seen by any non-plotters either.
The "hide-the-bullets-before-somebody-gets-wise" plot only gets
sillier and sillier the more any logical person thinks about it.
But the LHO/LN/3-Shot scenario fits perfectly, to a tee, right down
the line -- from the TSBD evidence (rifle/shells), to the fragments
inside
the limo, to the witness testimony, to the SBT alignment, to CE399, to
the autopsy report, and to the fact that NO OTHER BULLETS were found
anyplace that could be connected with the victims' wounds.
And to think that this amount of LHO-hanging stuff could have possibly
ALL been "faked" and/or "arranged" by evil plotters after the fact in
such a short time period is to believe in magic (literally).
To repeat a quote I've mentioned before from Larry Sturdivan's
well-done book "The JFK Myths" (and it's a quote every CTer should jot
down and stick to their refrigerator for future reference, because it
makes so much logical sense) ----
"While one of the pieces of physical evidence could conceivably have
been faked by an expert, there is no possibility that an expert, or
team of super-experts, could have fabricated the perfectly coordinated
whole, with superhuman abilities to fake physical evidence, that is in
complete agreement with all the other faked evidence." --- "The JFK
Myths"; Page 246
DVP
Feb. 2006 (Archived)
========================================
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/4d505fe064fccafb
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/4a6b3390021d657c
========================================
RICLAND
> A CTer SAID:
>
>>>> "People get lucky, but what I am saying is that your scenario requires as many, or more, presuppositions as most CTs." <<<
>
> DVP SAYS:
>
> It requires NO "presuppositions" in point of fact.
>
> Why?
>
> Because the physical evidence left behind by the murder weapon TELLS
> US
> that Oswald's rifle (crappy as it may have been) was the ONLY weapon
> that fired any bullets that hit anyone in JFK's car on 11/22.
Based on what? the pristine bullet found on a gurney used by neither
Connelly or Kennedy?
The orderly testified he found the magic bullet on a gurney in the hall.
The Warren Commission's response to this is that he was "mistaken."
The bullet was also in pristine condition.
Putting the two together the logical conclusion is that someone planted
evidence -- that is, the pristine bullet is evidence of a conspiracy,
NOT evidence that Connelly's and Kennedy's wounds were inflicted by it.
>
> Similar to the useless CT arguments re. the Tippit murder (that
> argument being: Oswald couldn't have gotten to 10th St. in time to
> shoot Tippit) .... a similar type of CT argument proves to be totally
> useless and moot with respect to the JFK murder weapon as well (with
> that invalid CT argument being: Oswald's rifle could not possibly have
> been the gun used to kill JFK because it was a rusty, defective,
> mis-aligned POS that only cost $21.45).
The above paragraph makes no sense. You start with the Tippit murder but
make no conclusion about it.
Why is the CT argument about the Tippit murder false? You don't tell us.
>
> Neither of the above arguments is worth a hill of beans ... because of
> OTHER HARD EVIDENCE that trumps both CT arguments 100%.
"Worth a hill of beans" sounds like pure Bugliosi.
The "hard evidence" you talk about was the witnesses to the Tippit
murder and the shells found. The problem with the witnesses is each
ORIGINALLY gave a description of the killer(s) that didn't fit Oswald.
This "trumps" the shells found at the scene coming from Oswald's .38.
>
> There is still, to this day, ZERO hunks of physical ballistics
> evidence
> that indicates any weapon other than Oswald's M-C rifle hit anyone on
> Nov. 22nd.
Eliminate the magic bullet found on a gurney that neither Connelly or
Kennedy used and there is no evidence any of the wounds were inflicted
by the MC.
>
> Which, therefore, still indicates to this day that if a multi-gun
> conspiracy existed in Dealey Plaza (as virtually all CTers believe),
> there was a wide-sweeping, comprehensive, grab-every-non-LHO-bullet
> cover-up job performed by XX number of conspirators after the fact --
> including the EXTRA, unexpected task of getting rid of XX number of
> bullets that hit a person (JBC) other than the intended target.
Again, eliminate the magic bullet found on a gurney that neither
Connelly or Kennedy used and there is no evidence any of the wounds were
inflicted by the MC.
The rest of your post descends to incoherence, so I'll end here.
ricland
[...David's gibberish snipped ...]
David Von Pein
That's one of the nicest things ever said to me. (Even though you
meant it as a shot in the ribs, of course.)
>>> "Based on what? The pristine bullet found on a gurney used by neither Connelly [sic] or Kennedy? The orderly testified he found the magic bullet on a gurney in the hall. The Warren Commission's response to this is that he was "mistaken"." <<<
Tomlinson wasn't sure which stretcher he found the bullet on. And if
you'd ever stop isolating evidence, even with a bit of ambiguity re.
Tomlinson's "Which Stretcher Was It?" testimony, you'd be easily able
to figure out that the bullet HAD to have come off of Connally's
stretcher. There IS no other logical, reasonable explanation
(Tomlinson's hedging notwithstanding). Here's why.....
>>> "The bullet was also in pristine condition." <<<
<yawn> Another CT myth re-visited for the 10,997th time I see.
The bullet was flattened with lead oozing at the base....perfectly
consistent with a tumbling bullet doing what CE399 is purported to
have done. It was not "pristine", per se.
BTW, where are the bullets that need to REPLACE 399...since 399 is a
"plant" per CT beliefs?
Wouldn't it be just a TAD bit better for CTers to have just ONE non-
C2766 fragment or bullet pop up in this case? Having ZERO of those
things makes your multi-gun theory seem a bit weak....don't ya think?
>>> "Putting the two together the logical conclusion is that someone planted evidence." <<<
Look up "logical" in the dictionary. It's something CTers know nothing
about.
>>> "The "hard evidence" you talk about was the witnesses to the Tippit murder and the shells found. The problem with the witnesses is each ORIGINALLY gave a description of the killer(s) that didn't fit Oswald." <<<
Bullshit. Never happened. Cite it please (with "each" witness as
well).
Truth is: multiple witnesses IDed ONLY Oswald as Tippit's killer or as
the ONE man who fled the scene. No matter what the kooks say, Oswald
will always be guilty of that murder. Always. And forever.
Ted Callaway (1986): "I could have recognized him {Oswald; in the
police line-up} even if he'd been nekkid."
Look up the testimony of Davis, Davis, Markham, Scoggins, Tatum, and
others .... they all IDed Oswald and only Oswald.
The two Davis girls even COMBINE powerful hunks of testimony -- i.e.,
they ID Oswald and watch him dump shells from a REVOLVER (not
"automatic") in their yard, with the shells that each girl recovered
being ballistically linked to the gun that was owned by THE SAME MAN
DAVIS & DAVIS IDENTIFIED.
Odds of those things "lining up" to perfection and yet still having
Oswald NOT GUILTY of killing Tippit?
Those are O.J.-type odds indeed (in favor of Oswald's guilt, that is).
[Additional Ric-authored kookshit snipped.]
RICLAND
>>>> ""Worth a hill of beans" sounds like pure Bugliosi." <<<
>
> That's one of the nicest things ever said to me. (Even though you
> meant it as a shot in the ribs, of course.)
>
>
>>>> "Based on what? The pristine bullet found on a gurney used by neither Connelly [sic] or Kennedy? The orderly testified he found the magic bullet on a gurney in the hall. The Warren Commission's response to this is that he was "mistaken"." <<<
>
> Tomlinson wasn't sure which stretcher he found the bullet on. And if
> you'd ever stop isolating evidence, even with a bit of ambiguity re.
> Tomlinson's "Which Stretcher Was It?" testimony, you'd be easily able
> to figure out that the bullet HAD to have come off of Connally's
> stretcher. There IS no other logical, reasonable explanation
> (Tomlinson's hedging notwithstanding). Here's why.....
Tomlinson was absolutely sure of where the bullet came from even 40
years later as shown in Gil's "Which Stretcher did the bullet Come from?"
In the video he steps through what happened exactly as he remembered it
, after which he says, "And that's exactly what I told the Warren
Commission.
The problem, of course, is that isn't exactly how the Warren Commission
reported his testimony.
And this speaks to the problem Sen. Richard Russell, Rep. Boggs, tens of
witnesses had with the way their testimony was treated by the Warren
Commission; that is, if it didn't fit Arlen Specter's Magic Bullet
Theory it was mangled or left out completely.
This site doesn't discuss Tomlinson.
>
>>>> "The bullet was also in pristine condition." <<<
>
> <yawn> Another CT myth re-visited for the 10,997th time I see.
>
> The bullet was flattened with lead oozing at the base....perfectly
> consistent with a tumbling bullet doing what CE399 is purported to
> have done. It was not "pristine", per se.
Anyone who's seen a photo of CE399 next to a photo of a similar bullet
fired through something as soft as boneless meat, knows there's no way
CE399 could have done the damage to Kennedy and Connelly it was supposed
to have done and remained it the near-pristine condition Tomlinson found
it in.
The bullet was an obvious plant.
>
> BTW, where are the bullets that need to REPLACE 399...since 399 is a
> "plant" per CT beliefs?
>
> Wouldn't it be just a TAD bit better for CTers to have just ONE non-
> C2766 fragment or bullet pop up in this case? Having ZERO of those
> things makes your multi-gun theory seem a bit weak....don't ya think?
Different conversation. All I'm talking about here is Tomlinson's
testimony and the near-pristine condition of the bullet he found.
>
>
>>>> "Putting the two together the logical conclusion is that someone planted evidence." <<<
>
> Look up "logical" in the dictionary. It's something CTers know nothing
> about.
>
>
>>>> "The "hard evidence" you talk about was the witnesses to the Tippit murder and the shells found. The problem with the witnesses is each ORIGINALLY gave a description of the killer(s) that didn't fit Oswald." <<<
>
> Bullshit. Never happened. Cite it please (with "each" witness as
> well).
Wrong.
But rather than address myself, I'll allow one of the more knowledgeable
posters do so.
Ricland
>
> Truth is: multiple witnesses IDed ONLY Oswald as Tippit's killer or as
> the ONE man who fled the scene. No matter what the kooks say, Oswald
> will always be guilty of that murder. Always. And forever.
>
> Ted Callaway (1986): "I could have recognized him {Oswald; in the
> police line-up} even if he'd been nekkid."
>
> Look up the testimony of Davis, Davis, Markham, Scoggins, Tatum, and
> others .... they all IDed Oswald and only Oswald.
>
> The two Davis girls even COMBINE powerful hunks of testimony -- i.e.,
> they ID Oswald and watch him dump shells from a REVOLVER (not
> "automatic") in their yard, with the shells that each girl recovered
> being ballistically linked to the gun that was owned by THE SAME MAN
> DAVIS & DAVIS IDENTIFIED.
>
> Odds of those things "lining up" to perfection and yet still having
> Oswald NOT GUILTY of killing Tippit?
>
> Those are O.J.-type odds indeed (in favor of Oswald's guilt, that is).
>
>
> [Additional Ric-authored kookshit snipped.]
>
--
Who Shot JFK?
http://tinyurl.com/2qgodj
David Von Pein
Why did the boob plotters plant the damn thing on the WRONG stretcher
then?? (Did they do that just to deliberately give you kooks a "clue"
toward solving the "conspiracy" perhaps?)
>>> "But rather than address myself, I'll allow one of the more knowledgeable posters do so." <<<
Translation: You (Ric) can't do it...because there's nothing in the
witness record that exonerates Oswald for Tippit's murder. (Save
Clemons' singular account....and even her testimony doesn't really
eliminate Oswald as a shooter. When the sum total of evidence is added
up, Oz is "guilty as ever-lovin' sin", and everybody with a brain
knows it. But let's ignore the "sum total"....right Ric?)
Pathetic.
RICLAND
>>>> "The bullet was an obvious plant." <<<
>
> Why did the boob plotters plant the damn thing on the WRONG stretcher
> then?? (Did they do that just to deliberately give you kooks a "clue"
> toward solving the "conspiracy" perhaps?)
Probably because they thought if they planted it in the right stretcher,
the Warren Commission wouldn't admit it as evidence.
>
>
>>>> "But rather than address myself, I'll allow one of the more knowledgeable posters do so." <<<
>
> Translation: You (Ric) can't do it...because there's nothing in the
> witness record that exonerates Oswald for Tippit's murder. (Save
> Clemons' singular account....and even her testimony doesn't really
> eliminate Oswald as a shooter. When the sum total of evidence is added
> up, Oz is "guilty as ever-lovin' sin", and everybody with a brain
> knows it. But let's ignore the "sum total"....right Ric?)
>
> Pathetic.
The Tippit evidence has to go down as the worst example of police work
ever. First, the original testimony of each witness was completely
different from what each later told the Warren Commission. This includes
the police officers.
For example, an experienced police officer and another cop who was a
Marine combat veteran first identified the shells found at the scene as
"automatic" .38 shells. But Oswald supposedly used a .38 revolver. In
addition, each officer wrote his initials on the found shells a process
that allowed each to read the word "automatic" on each shell.
But these were not the shells they were given to identify when they
appeared before the Warren Commission. Instead, they were given .38
Revolver shells, and told these were the shells found at the scene.
And it's my intention to take each piece of evidence from the Tippit
murder and show how it exonerates Oswald, but so as not to confuse your
Lilliputian brain, David. Let's take it one step at a time.
Are you aware of problem with the Tippit Crime Scene shells? and if so,
how to you account for it?
ricland
David Von Pein
There are many to choose from. All convincing, too. (Except if you
truly NEED Mr. Oswald to be innocent of the Tippit crime, too, for
some odd reasons all your own.)
Anyway, I'm not typing all of that Tippit stuff over again to try and
convince some CTer (or CT-Faker, still not sure which you are...you're
a strange bird indeed, via your hot-&-cold posting history) of
Oswald's plain-as-day guilt.
Here. Read.....
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/16b70728d9c8ecd4
tomnln
Opinions don't count.
HERE>>> http://www.whokilledjfk.net/tippit.htm
ONLY Official Records Count.
They Scare the Shit outta you don't they.
THAT's why you REJECT them.
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1175139356.5...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...