Let's Talk About Harold Norman.....
David Von Pein
=================================================
"I heard a shot and several seconds later I heard two more shots. I
knew that the shots had come from directly above me, and I could hear
the expended cartridges fall to the floor. I also could here the bolt
action of the rifle. I saw some dust fall from the ceiling of the
fifth
floor and I felt sure that whoever had fired the shots was directly
above me." -- Via Harold Norman's 12/04/63 Affidavit
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/norman_1.htm
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/norman.htm
=================================================
Does anyone truly think that JFK assassination witness Harold Norman
was full of shit when he claimed to hear the rifle's bolt being worked
directly over his head on 11/22/63 during the shooting....and hearing
exactly THREE shots fired from over his head...and hearing exactly
THREE spent hulls hitting the floor above him?
Mr. Norman's testimony in all of the above "three-shot" regards
provides an additional (and, IMO, very important) layer of evidence
leading toward Lee Harvey Oswald's guilt in the JFK murder (coupled
with all the other ballistics, witness, fingerprint, and fiber
evidence
that back up LHO's guilt as well).
Because if Norman was dead-wrong about everything he heard going on
directly above his 5th-Floor location within the Book Depository, it
would certainly be an incredible coincidence that he would be WRONG,
but in such a "THREE SHOTS WERE FIRED FROM THE SIXTH FLOOR"
fashion....which is a scenario that is backed up by lots of other
evidence (and witnesses), besides just Mr. Norman.
And if conspiracists want to paint Norman as yet another in a series
of
"liars" or "WC shills" after the assassination, it only adds one more
ludicrous and unproven "He Was Lying" allegation to the already-silly
length of such a list that has been created by some CTers over the
years since 1963.
And it's interesting to note in the Warren Report, that all seven
Warren Commissioners (in three separate re-creations of bullet shells
hitting the floor above Norman's position on the TSBD's 5th Floor)
were
each easily able to hear the cartridge cases hitting the floor.
In addition, there's also the test that was conducted by WC counsel
member David W. Belin. To quote Belin directly on this matter.....
"We scheduled the testimony of Harold Norman on March 24, 1964. Before
he testified, we wanted to interview him on the fifth floor of the
TSBD
Building and check whether these sounds {of the rifle shells hitting
the floor and of the rifle's bolt being worked by the gunman} could be
heard.
We had with us the equipment necessary to make the test. A Secret
Service agent with the bolt action rifle stood with Joe Ball in the
southeast corner window on the sixth floor of the TSBD Building. I
stayed with Harold Norman on the fifth floor directly below.
Before giving the signal to conduct the experiment, I waited until a
train passed on the nearby railroad overpass so there would be plenty
of street noise. In addition, at that time, several large trucks were
moving down Elm Street. I then yelled to have the test begin.
I smiled, for I really did not expect to hear anything. Then, with
remarkable clarity, I could hear the thump as a cartridge case hit the
floor. There were two more thumps as the two other cartridge cases hit
the floor above me.
The Secret Service agent then worked the bolt of the rifle back and
forth, and this too could be heard with clarity.
When we re-assembled after the re-enactment, I said to my colleague,
'Joe, if I had not heard it myself, I would never have believed it'."
-- David Belin; Pages 139-140 of Belin's 1973 book "November 22, 1963:
You Are The Jury"
~~~~~~
Now, either Harold Norman was an amazing liar, or somebody fired three
shots from just above Norman's 5th-Floor Depository position on
11/22/63 (with three shells hitting the floor too).*
* = And Norman confirmed he did hear precisely THREE shells/("hulls")
hitting the plywood floor directly above him during the shooting. He
confirmed this fact in 1986 when he was being questioned about the
matter by lawyer Vincent Bugliosi during the television Docu-Trial "On
Trial: Lee Harvey Oswald".
Here is some of the verbatim testimony given by Harold Norman at that
TV Docu-Trial in 1986:
VINCENT BUGLIOSI -- "So you heard a total of three shots?"
HAROLD NORMAN -- "Yes sir."
MR. BUGLIOSI -- "Did it sound to you like a rifle was being fired
directly above you?"
MR. NORMAN -- "Yes sir."
MR. BUGLIOSI -- "Was there any OTHER reason, in addition to the sound
of the rifle, any other reason why you believed the shots were coming
from directly above you?"
MR. NORMAN -- "Yes sir."
MR. BUGLIOSI -- "And what is that?"
MR. NORMAN -- "Because I could hear the empty hulls--that's what I
call
them--hit the floor; and I could hear the bolt action of the rifle
being pushed back and forward."
MR. BUGLIOSI -- "You're familiar with a bolt-action rifle?"
MR. NORMAN -- "Yes sir."
MR. BUGLIOSI -- "And by 'hulls', you mean cartridge casings?"
MR. NORMAN -- "Cartridges."
MR. BUGLIOSI -- "How many did you hear falling to the floor?"
MR. NORMAN -- "Three."
MR. BUGLIOSI -- "Is the sound of that bolt action, and the ejection of
the cartridge casings, and their falling to the floor something that
you're going to remember for the rest of your life?"
MR. NORMAN -- "Yes sir."
MR. BUGLIOSI -- "One more question....at any time on the morning of
the
assassination did you see any stranger or strangers in the Book
Depository Building?"
MR. NORMAN -- "No sir."
~~~~~~
Many CTers think the three shells were "planted" in the Sniper's Nest
after the shooting. But Norman heard the shells dropping to the floor
DURING THE SHOOTING, not several seconds AFTER the gunfire ceased.
Do some CTers think that the plotters had a guy standing in the SN
dropping shells to the floor IN REAL TIME during the actual 8 seconds
when the assassination was taking place on November 22nd?
"Real Time, As-It's-Happening Shell Planting"! Now THAT'S Patsy-
Framing
organization and efficiency, for damn sure! :)
So, if Norman's not a liar (and there's absolutely no reason to think
he is), then three shots WERE definitely fired from that southeast
corner window of the Book Depository's sixth floor. Period. Which is
something that very few conspiracy theorists I've ever talked to
actually believe occurred that day.
And -- Harold Norman's testimony, all by itself, makes CTer Robert
Groden's crazy "No Shots Were Likely Fired From The SN Window At All"
theory look even MORE ludicrous than it already is.
David Von Pein
July 2006
January 2007
(Re-Post)
David Von Pein
>>> "Interestingly, he {Junior Jarman, via his 11/23/63 affidavit} says *nothing* about hearing the shots immediately above him." <<<
Well, for Christ sake, Ben, Jarman never mentions the shooting AT ALL
in his entire affidavit! Of course he didn't mention where he thought
the shots came from in a document which has zero comments in it at all
regarding the shooting in question. (Why he never mentions the
shooting
in that document, I haven't a clue. Do you? Was he told by the evil
cover-uppers that he shouldn't mention anything about the actual
shooting in his affidavit? Prob'ly so, huh?)
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/jarman1.htm
>>> "He {Jarman} *does*, however, illustrate that LHO wasn't even aware that JFK was coming right in front of the TSDB [sic]." <<<
Yeah, Ben, be sure and use that hunk of evidence to help exonerate
your
hero named Lee. That information there will surely help completely
ERASE the fact that Oswald's gun, shells, and fingerprints were found
upstairs later that day.
Lee Harvey Oswald, IMO, was smarter than some people give him credit
for (on occasion anyway; his lousy escape plan notwithstanding).*
* = Although it's fairly obvious that LHO really hadn't the slightest
idea whether if he'd get a good chance to kill JFK that day or not,
right up to 12:30. In fact, he almost HAD to have had a mindset of "IF
I GET A CHANCE TO SHOOT HIM, FINE; IF NOT, THAT'S FINE, TOO".
Because there is no way in hell he shoots from that window if there's
anybody else on that 6th Floor at 12:30. That, IMO, partially explains
his crappy escape plan. Because Oswald HIMSELF really didn't believe
he'd get a chance to commit that crime.
How COULD he have thought he'd have a good chance at doing it from a
location that could have conceivably been crawling with other
employees
(which it almost was; because several employees, including Norman,
Jarman, Shelley, Lovelady, and Arce, were discussing, shortly before
12:30, the possibility of going back up to the 6th Floor to watch the
motorcade; luckily for Oswald, none of those employees decided to go
to
that floor to watch the parade).
Back to Lee Harvey's "smarts":
It was certainly smart of Lee to spout "I'm just a patsy" in the DPD
corridor (that great-big lie worked to perfection, setting the "Patsy"
wheels in motion amongst wide-eyed CT-Kooks; and those are wheels that
haven't stopped turning to this day).
And it was smart of Oswald, IMO, to play it kinda dumb on the morning
of 11/22, when he asked fellow employees questions like "What's going
on outside?"; and "Which direction will he be coming from?".
Oswald was probably playing a cute little "game" on those occasions,
IMO. And that patented Oswald smirk probably crossed his murdering
face
after he asked those seemingly-"innocent" questions prior to the
motorcade's arrival in DP on that Friday morning.
But there is absolutely NO DOUBT at all that Oswald positively KNEW
that the President was going to be in Dallas on Friday, 11/22. We know
he knew this because Ruth Paine told him (on Thursday night) that JFK
was coming to town the following day. Oswald played a little game with
Ruth on that occasion too -- as he shrugged, mumbled something
incoherent, and then brushed on by Ruth on the Paine's front lawn on
11/21 PM.
But, quite obviously, Oswald knew of Kennedy's impending 11/22 visit
PRIOR to that Ruth Paine remark on Thursday night -- because he went
to
Irving on Thursday to get his rifle out of Ruth's garage. That is a
rock-solid certainty, based on all the circumstantial evidence that
tells any reasonable person examining the case that he went there to
get that rifle.
It's quite possible, however, that one of Oswald's questions to fellow
employees was not part of his cute "game" he was playing with them
that
day -- the question about the exact streets JFK's car would be
travelling. Oswald might have simply guessed that the motorcade would
proceed through town on Main Street....but perhaps he was not aware of
the Elm St. turn.
I think he probably did read it in the paper on Wednesday (via his
habit of reading day-old newspapers while at work in the TSBD's Domino
Room). The precise routing of the motorcade was published in both
Dallas papers on Tuesday (11/19).
It really wouldn't have mattered, however. Because Oswald could still
have fairly-easily shot JFK on Main Street, if the turn onto Elm had
been eliminated.
>>> "He {Jarman} also makes it clear that Norman *DID NOT* pinpoint the sounds as you believe he did:
Mr. BALL - Did Norman say anything else that you remember?
Mr. JARMAN - He said that he was sure that the shot came from inside
the
building..." <<<
Big LOL here!
For crying out loud, Ben! Can you possibly split those hairs to a
finer
pulpy mass?!
Jarman said that Norman claimed the shots came "from inside the
building" (the TSBD), but that's not nearly good enough testimony for
Ben-Kook FROM A SECOND-HAND WITNESS WHO WAS TELLING THE WC WHAT
SOMEBODY ELSE SAID! Ben wants the whole nine yards from Jarman re.
what
another person (Norman) said.
And I guess Ben would rather search through Jarman's testimony when it
comes to what NORMAN said, instead of going to the horse's mouth to
see
what Norman HIMSELF had to say on the matter to the WC....which was
this, btw:
Mr. BALL -- "And you said you thought it came from where?"
Mr. NORMAN -- "Above where we were, above us."
Oh, yes, I forgot. ~slaps forehead~
Norman's been "coerced" by the evil bad guys! So nothing Norman says
can be trusted! It's ALL lies! Right, Ben-K?
Tell me, is Jarman's testimony about Norman's saying "the shots came
from inside the building" worth a hoot either? Or is Jarman merely a
pawn too, being manipulated every which way but loose by the evil
conspirators?
DVP
Re-Post from July 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/151ec25ab83f9730
David Von Pein
I can think of two reasons to believe you are incorrect in this
regard, Joe.
Those reasons being: The testimony of Bonnie Ray Williams and James
Jarman, who BOTH told the WC that Norman said the shots came from over
his head....and both Williams and Jarman said that Norman said this
JUST SECONDS OR MINUTES AFTER THE SHOOTING (while the men were still
on the 5th Floor). .....
BONNIE RAY WILLIAMS -- I believe he {Norman} was the first one. He
said "Man, I know it came from there {the 6th Floor}. It even shook
the building."
~~~~~~
JAMES JARMAN -- Hank said, Harold Norman, rather, said that he thought
the shots had came from above us...
Mr. BALL -- Did Norman say anything else that you remember?
Mr. JARMAN -- He said that he was sure that the shot came from inside
the building because he had been used to guns and all that, and he
said it didn't sound like it was too far off anyway. And so we ran
down to the west side of the building.
Mr. BALL -- Did Norman say anything about hearing cartridges or
ejection or anything like that, do you remember?
Mr. JARMAN -- That was after we got down to the west side of the
building.
===============
So, via the above testimony of both Williams and Jarman, either both
men are pretty adroit liars (or truth-stretchers at any rate) or, it
would appear, that even before the three men descended from the 5th
Floor of the Depository, Harold Norman was telling his account of
hearing a gunman directly above him AND hearing (per Jarman's
testimony) the shells hitting the floor AND hearing the rifle's bolt
being worked above him.
dcwi...@netscape.net
Where's Barb? She usually has something to say about this. And isn't
this a repeat? I seem to recall her asking when DVP was going to get
to Williams & Jarman (having already tackled Norman)....
dw
dcwi...@netscape.net
>
> - Show quoted text -
I should add, it's funny how they distributed the "evidence" pointing
to the 6th floor, equitably, among the three 5th-floor witnesses. At
the hearings, (1) Jarman gets to say he threw open the west-end corner
window (which action functioned as the "proof" that the three ran to
the west side & thus their view of the stairs was blocked & they
couldn't see whoever running down from the 6th floor), (2) Williams
gets to say he got hit by "debris", replacing the earlier reports of
*Norman* being rained on by dirt or dust, & (3) Norman gets to say
that he heard boomchickaboomboom from above, replacing the earlier
reports in which *he* got hit by dirt. Everybody was happy!
dw
David Von Pein
lie....when "they" (i.e., the evil, always-underhanded covert cover-up
agents) ALREADY HAVE IRONCLAD EVIDENCE of Oswald's guilt up on the 6th
Floor, in the form of physical evidence like C2766, the shells, his
prints, and the bag.
But let's get these three Negroes to lie their asses off for us
anyway.
Right, kook?
Of course it's right.
Gil Jesus
> window (which action functioned as the "proof" that the three ran to
> the west side & thus their view of the stairs was blocked & they
> couldn't see whoever running down from the 6th floor),
(2) Williams gets to say he got hit by "debris", replacing the
earlier reports of
> *Norman* being rained on by dirt or dust, &
(3) Norman gets to say that he heard boomchickaboomboom from above,
replacing the earlier reports in which *he* got hit by dirt.
Everybody was happy!
-----------------------------------------------
Don, I agree with you that anyone who believes that the striking of a
shell on the floor could cause "debris" to fall on the heads of people
the next floor down is a brainless idiot. Do they even realize the
type of impact a shell would have to make on the floor to crack the
ceiling below it ? Maybe they should try an experiment and fire a
rifle from a warehouse and let's see if the shell hits the floor hard
enough to cause "debris" on the floor below it.
Total jackasses, as usual.
dcwi...@netscape.net
> Yeah, let's make N,J,&W tell lie after needless, superfluous
> lie....when "they" (i.e., the evil, always-underhanded covert cover-up
> agents) ALREADY HAVE IRONCLAD EVIDENCE of Oswald's guilt up on the 6th
> Floor, in the form of physical evidence like C2766, the shells
Why the fuck do you keep bringing up the shells?--two deputy sheriffs
saw Fritz pick them up or handed them before they could be
photographed. If that's your "ironclad", it's pretty thin....
dw
dcwi...@netscape.net
> (1) Jarman gets to say he threw open the west-end corner
>
> > window (which action functioned as the "proof" that the three ran to
> > the west side & thus their view of the stairs was blocked & they
> > couldn't see whoever running down from the 6th floor),
>
> (2) Williams gets to say he got hit by "debris", replacing the
> earlier reports of
>
> > *Norman* being rained on by dirt or dust, &
>
> replacing the earlier reports in which *he* got hit by dirt.
> Everybody was happy!
> -----------------------------------------------
> Don, I agree with you that anyone who believes that the striking of a
> shell on the floor could cause "debris" to fall on the heads of people
> the next floor down is a brainless idiot. Do they even realize the
> type of impact a shell would have to make on the floor to crack the
> ceiling below it ? Maybe they should try an experiment and fire a
> rifle from a warehouse and let's see if the shell hits the floor hard
> enough to cause "debris" on the floor below it.
>
> Total jackasses, as usual.
Also, as I believe Barb has pointed out, & I think I did too, the
"debris" changed, from dirt or dust *outside* the window, to stuff
*inside*.... The "debris" did whatever the trio's handlers wanted it
to do....
dw
David Von Pein
Bullshit. Never happened. .....
==================
"What perhaps is the strongest evidence against {Deputy Sheriff Luke}
Mooney's contention that Fritz moved the shells...is that he {Mooney}
said that once he discovered the shells he put his head out the window
"and called down to Sheriff Decker and Captain Fritz...to send up the
crime lab." So Fritz wasn't even there on the sixth floor at the
time. ....
"When {DPD photographer Robert Studebaker} arrived on the sixth floor
"they hadn't found anything" yet {per Studebaker's WC testimony}.
Studebaker went on to say that as soon as they found the shells, "we
went over there and took photographs," which we can assume would have
been at least a few minutes before Captain Fritz even arrived on the
sixth floor." -- "Reclaiming History"; Pages 417-418 of Endnotes
===================
tomnln
Alyea.doc
Do your homework.
http://www.jfk-online.com/alyea.html
Tom Alyea, "Facts and Photos"
From Connie Kritzberg's
Secrets from the Sixth Floor Window, pp.
39-46
I was the
first newsman into the building and the only newsman
to accompany the search
team as they went from floor to floor searching
for the person who fired the
shots. At this time, we did not know the
president had been hit. I rushed in
with a group of plain clothesmen and
a few uniformed officers. . .
.
I [followed] the
search team that was on its way to the rear
elevator, to start the floor by
floor search. We searched every floor,
all the way to the roof. The gunman
could have still been in the
building. Finding nothing, they started back
down. After approximately
18 minutes, they were joined by Captain Fritz, who
had first gone to
Parkland Hospital.
The barricade on the sixth floor ran parallel to the windows,
extending in
an "L" shape that ended against the front wall between the
first and second
twin windows. The height of the stack of boxes was a
minimum of 5 ft. I
looked over the barricade and saw three shell casings
laying on the floor in
front of the second window in the two window
casement. They were scattered
in an area that could be covered by a
bushel basket. They were located about
half way between the inside of
the barricade. I set my lens focus at the
estimated distance from the
camera to the floor and held the camera over the
top of the barricade
and filmed them before anybody went into the enclosure.
I could not
position my eye to the camera's view finder to get the shot.
After
filming the casings with my wide angle lens, from a height of 5 ft., I
asked Captain Fritz, who was standing at my side, if I could go behind
the barricade and get a close-up shot of the casings. He told me that it
would be better if I got my shots from outside the barricade. He then
rounded the pile of boxes and entered the enclosure. This was the first
time anybody walked between the barricade and the
windows.
Fritz then
walked to the casings, picked them up and held them
in his hand over the top
of the boxes for me to get a close-up shot of
the evidence. I filmed about
eight seconds of a close-up shot of the
shell casings in Captain Fritz's
hand. I stopped filming, and thanked
him. I do not recall if he placed them
in his pocket or returned them
back to the floor, because I was preoccupied
with recording other views
of the crime scene. I have been asked many times
if I thought it was
peculiar that the Captain of Homicide picked up evidence
with his hands.
Actually, that was the first thought that came to me when he
did it, but
I rationalized that he was the homicide expert and no prints
could be
taken from spent shell casings. Therefore, any photograph of shell
casings taken after this, is staged and not correct. It is highly
doubtful that the shell casings that appear in Dallas police photos of
the crime scene are the same casings that were found originally. The
originals by this time were probably in a plastic bag at police
headquarters. Why? Probably this was a missing link in the report the
police department had to send to the FBI and they had to stage it and
the barricade box placement to complete their report and photo
records.
The position of
the barricade, while difficult to follow for
one who was not there, is
important because of the difference in
photographs seen
today.
There are four
different box positions.
1) There was one box in the barricade stack that was
considerably higher
than the others. This box is the one that can be
seen in the photos taken
from outside the window by Tom Dillard, because
it was high enough to catch
the sunlight and still be seen from the
ground below. It is not to be
confused with the second box set at an
angle in the window sill, that was
used as a brace for the assassin's
rifle.
2) A portion of
this box can also be seen in these same photos
taken by Tom Dillard. It
shows up in the lower right hand corner of the
picture.
3) Two
boxes were stacked on the floor, inside the window, to
give arm support to
the assassin. The top box was one of the two boxes
from which the crime lab
lifted palm prints.
4)
The fourth box of importance was on the floor behind the
sniper location.
Officers also lifted palm prints from this box. It is
suspected that the
sniper sat on this box while he waited for the
motorcade to
pass.
The positioning of
boxes 2,
3, and 4 were recorded by the
police crime lab. They are the only boxes
involved in the crime
scene.
The actual
positioning of the barricade was never photographed
by the police. It s
actual positioning is only on my movie footage,
which was taken before the
police started dismantling the
arrangement.
We all
looked over the barricade to see if the half open window
with three boxes
piled to form a shooting rest for a gunman. One box was
actually on the
window sill, tilted at an angle. There was a reason for
this that I cover in
my JFK Facts newsletter. The shooting location
consists of two windows set
together to form one single window. (The
police photo showing the shell
casings laying next to the brick wall was
staged later by crime lab people
who did not see the original
positioning because they were not called upon
the scene until after the
rifle was found nearly an hour later.) . .
.
Only recently I saw a
picture of Lt. Day with a news still
cameraman on the 6th floor. Day was
shown pointing to the location where
the rifle was found. This was nearly
3:30 or after. It was my
understanding that Day and Studebaker had taken the
prints, rifle and
homemade sack back to police headquarters. I personally
would like to
know what they were doing back at the scene unless it was to
reconstruct
shots they had failed to take during the primary investigation.
But this
evidence had been destroyed and they were forced to create their
own
version. The photo I have seen of the barricade wasn't even close. I
have also seen recently a police photo of the assassin's lair taken from
a high angle which indicates that it was shot before the barricade box
arrangement was destroyed, but it did not show the barricade itself.
This has no bearing on the case other than the public has never seen the
original placement. . .
.
Police officers who
claim they were on the 6th floor when the
assassin's window was found have
reported that they saw chicken bones at
or near the site. One officer
reported that he saw chicken bones on the
floor near the location. Another
said he saw chicken bones on the
barricade boxes, while another reported
that he saw chicken bones on the
box which was laying across the window
sill. Some of these officers have
given testimony as to the location of the
shell casings. Their testimony
differs and none of it is true. I have no
idea why they are clinging to
these statements. They must have a reason.
Perhaps it is because they
put it in a report and they must stick to
it.
One officer stated
that he found the assassin's location at the
6th floor window. He went on to
say that as he and his fellow officers
were leaving the building, he passed
Captain Fritz coming in. He said he
stopped briefly to tell Captain Fritz
that he had found the assassin's
lair at the 6th floor window. This seems
highly unlikely because Captain
Fritz joined us on the 5th floor and aided
in the search. The chances
are great that this, or these officers heard the
report, that stemmed
from WFAA-TV's incorrect announcement that the chicken
bones were found
on the 6th floor. This officer or officers perhaps used
this information
to formulate their presence at the scene. There were no
chicken bones
found on the 6th floor. We covered every inch of it and I
filmed
everything that could possibly be suspected as evidence. There
definitely were no chicken bones were no chicken bones on or near the
barricade or boxes at the window. I shot close-up shots of the entire
area. The most outstanding puzzle as to why these officers are sticking
to this story is the fact they claim to have found the sniper's
location, then left the building, as they said to join the investigators
at the Tippit shooting location. I have never seen a report that
indicates they attempted to use any telephone in the building in an
attempt to notify other investigators. They just left the scene to check
another assignment, and by chance ran into Capt. Fritz coming in the
front door. They claim to have placed a detective at the location but
they did not relay their finding to any other officer before they left
the building. I presume that the alleged detective they allegedly left
at the scene was instructed to stand there until someone else stumbled
upon the scene, or they found time to report it after investigating the
Tippit scene. Sorry, it doesn't
wash.
I do however know
that Officer Mooney was present when the
rifle was found because I took film
of him at the scene. He is shown
talking to another detective, but this was
nearly an hour after the
sniper's location was found at the window. I have
no idea when he
arrived. We ended up with more men than when we started. As
they joined
us during the search the latecomers would bring us the latest
news of
the president's condition. When Captain Fritz arrived 18 minutes
after
we started, he brought news that both Governor Connally and the
president had been hit but by the time he left, the seriousness of their
wounds was unknown. Fritz left the hospital almost immediately when he
was notified that a search was underway in the Texas School Book
Depository for the sniper. We in the search team had no phones, radios
or TV sets. As I recall, we learned that the president was dead about
the time we found the rifle. I don't know who brought us this word.
Several officers arrived while we were waiting for Lt. Day. One of them
was Roger Craig, who is responsible for giving much misinformation to
the press. None of us were prepared to hear that the president's wound
was a fatal one. We thought perhaps it was a minor thing or possibly a
flesh wound. It was a stunning shock, and our attitude [towards] the
rifle had suddenly changed. We stared at the small portion of the butt
as it lay under the overhang boxes while we waited for Lt. Day to arrive
and recover the weapon that killed our president. . .
.
We finished combing
the 6th floor, looking for the assassin or
any other evidence. Finding
nothing more at this time Captain Fritz
ordered all of us to the elevator
and we started searching the 7th floor
and from there we went to the
roof.
Nothing in the way
of evidence was found so we retraced our
search back down, floor by floor.
Shortly after we arrived back on the
6th floor, Deputy Eugene Boone located
the assassin's rifle almost
completely hidden by some overhanging boxes near
the stairwell. I filmed
it as it was found. In my shot, the figure of
Captain Fritz is standing
within the enclosure next to the rifle. He knew
then that the
possibility of a fire fight with the sniper had greatly
diminished. He
dispatched one of his men to go down and call for the crime
lab. About
fifteen minutes later, Lt. Day and Studebaker arrived. Still
pictures
were taken of the positioning of the rifle, then Lt. Day slid it
out
from its hiding place and held it up for all of us to see. The world has
seen my shot of this many times. Lt. Day immediately turned toward the
window behind him and started dusting the weapon for fingerprints. Day
was still within the enclosure formed by the surrounding boxes. I filmed
him lifting prints from the rifle. He lifted them off with scotch tape
and placed them on little white cards. When he had finished, he handed
the rifle to Captain Fritz. Fritz pulled the bolt back and a live round
ejected and landed on the boxes below. Fritz put the cartridge in his
pocket. I did not see Fritz pick up anything other than the live round.
. . .
I filmed
Captain Fritz talking with associates in this
dismantled area [the "sniper's
nest"], along with Studebaker, who was
dusting the Dr. Pepper bottle which
had been brought up to him from the
5th floor. This is all recorded on my
film. I never learned if prints
were lifted from the pop bottle. I'm not
sure if anybody ever
asked.
I took the film
from my camera, placed it back into its metal
can, wrapped the tape around
it, and tossed it to our News Editor, A. J.
L'Hoste, who was waiting outside
with the other newsmen who were not
allowed in the building. A. J. raced it
to the television station which
was about three blocks away. About fifteen
minutes later the world saw
the murder weapon, where it was found and
pictures of the crime lab
people dusting it for fingerprints, and the shell
casings that once
housed those bullets. They also saw how the assassin
prepared for his
ambush and the view he had of the killing
zone.
Addendum
#1
A correspondent asked Tom Alyea about the
accuracy of the above
material and forwarded Alyea's
response:
Thanks for
sending me the material from Connie Kritzberg's
"Secrets from The Sixth
Floor." I never read the book. Many years ago
she interviewed me about what
I saw during the search. I gave her some
pictures to use in her story. This
is the first time I have seen the
story. I regret to say that there are some
inaccuracies, which is to be
expected in an interview. You must remember
that she was not on the
sixth floor. She was at her desk in the city room at
the Dallas Times
Herald newspaper. It is disjointed and out of sequence,
which makes it
difficult to follow. This is often the case when the
interviewer asks
the questions and was not at the scene. Connie is a friend
of mine, and
a good reporter, but I did not see the final draft before it
went to
press. There is always the possibility that I failed to make my
answers
clear, and she derived a different meaning. Please remember that
these
short statements contained little detail and circumstances behind the
situation.
I shall
make a few corrections that I feel are necessary to
maintain
accuracy:
Corrections:
The average
height of the barricade (Barricade #1) was four and
a half feet. I don't
know how high this would be in the Metric
scale.
My shot of the
shell casings in Capt. Fritz's hand was between
three and four
seconds.
(Important
correction:) Take out the sentence that starts with,
"It is highly
doubtful…"
My statement
was that after Capt. Fritz held the casing over
the barricade for me to
film, he turned to examine the shooting support
boxes on the windowsill. I
couldn't see the captain put the casings in
his coat pocket because his coat
pocket was below the top of the
barricade. He did not return them to the
floor and he did not have them
in his hand when he was examining the
shooting support boxes. Over
thirty minutes later, after the rifle was
discovered and the crime lab
arrived, Capt. Fritz reached into his pocket
and handed the casings to
Det. Studebaker to include in the photographs he
would take of the
sniper's nest crime scene. We stayed at the rifle site to
watch Lt. Day
dust the rifle. You have seen my footage of this. Studebaker
never saw
the original placement of the casings so he tossed them on the
floor and
photographed them. Det. Studebaker was alone at this site until
after
Lt. Day left the building with the rifle. We in the search team went
to
the sniper's site. Studebaker had already photographed the casings on
the floor and was busy dusting the pop bottle when we arrived. The
casings were no longer on the floor. I never saw them again. The
barricade had been completely dismantled and the boxes from the West
side of the barricade had been removed and placed in various locations
around the site. We did not realize at the time that Studebaker had not
recorded on film the original placement of the boxes in the barricade.
He also had removed the shooting support boxes on the window ledge and
stacked them one on top of the other on the floor inside. He took a
picture of this reconstructed arrangement. This is the view researchers
have of the shooting support boxes that were originally on the brick
window ledge. The corner of the outside box was positioned over the
lower window channel that tilted the box at an
angle.
(Important
correction)…Take out the sentence that starts with,
"I have also seen
recently…"
This high
angle photograph was taken after the crime lab
returned to the sixth floor
three days later 'Monday, November,
twenty-five. Capt. Fritz had seen the
photographs and had directed the
crime lab to correct the shots of the
window boxes and the casings on
the floor. He had seen the original
placement and ordered the crime lab
to correct it. Neither Lt. Day nor Det.
Studebaker had seen the original
placement, so they procured my film from
the TV station to get it right.
The high angle shot (shots) were made to
show the original placement.
Their reconstruction was close, but not exact.
However, they did not
bring the casings with them so they did not make the
correction of the
original placement of the shell
casings.
(Important
correction) Take out the sentence that starts with
:" I do however know that
Officer Mooney…"
Mooney
was a Sheriff's Deputy, not a police officer. He did not
arrive on the sixth
floor until after the rifle was found and the search
was
over.
(Important
correction) Take out the sentence that starts with,
"He dispatched one of
his men…"
Capt. Fritz
did this after the shooting site was discovered,
with the instructions to
have the crime lab men wait on the first floor
when they arrived. We were
still looking for an armed gunman. We had
only found his shooting location.
After the rifle was found, Capt. Fritz
sent one of his detectives down in
the elevator to bring up the crime
lab, because it was obvious that the
sniper had escaped and the threat
of a firefight was unlikely. The crime lab
is never called to a scene
that has not been secured. I hope you researcher
friends will realize
this when the read the police testimonies where they
place Lt. Day at
the shooting site crime scene while we in the search team
were still
searching for an armed sniper on the same floor. They had a noble
reason
for giving this false testimony. They wanted to protect their boss,
Capt. Fritz from possible censure for picking up the casings before the
crime lab arrived and processed them. The easiest way was to place Lt.
Day at the scene before Capt. Fritz arrived. All this is detailed in my
report.
Addendum
#2
From: Dale Myers
(dmy...@rust.net)
Subject: Re: Tom
Alyea on the sixth floor
evidence
Newsgroups:
alt.conspiracy.jfk
Date:
1999/07/04
As we all
know, time alters recollections. Case in point:
compare Tom Alyea's more
recent statements (posted by Dave Reitzes) with
his statement from December
19, 1963:
------------------------------[quote
on]
"...I ran on
upstairs with the Secret Service men. Then other
units came in - the Riot
Squad. I thought I was going to film a gun
fight. They ran to the 4th floor
and I went with them. Some of the other
units went to the top of the
building. They were conducting a systematic
search. It boiled down to the
sixth floor. After awhile it was obvious
that the assassin was not in the
building. They looked for the gun. I
filmed 400 ft. of film of the Secret
Service men looking for the
assassin, climbing over boxes, over the rafters,
and the actual finding
of the gun. At the time it was suspected that the
assassin had stayed
quite a time there. There was a stack with a stack of
chicken bones on
it. There was a Dr. Pepper bottle which they dusted for
fingerprints.
The fingerprints were not Oswald's. You know how he piled the
boxes up?
The gun was found across the length of the room from where he
fired. It
was stashed between boxes. I had difficulty in filming. They did
not
want me closeto the window or to the gun. I asked permission to go to
the window to film. A Secret Service man said, 'You are close enough.' I
asked the Secret Service man to take pictures of the stashed gun. I set
the camera but he wiggled the camera. I got a picture of them taking the
gun from the hiding place and dusting it for fingerprints. After this
the Crime Lab man, Captain Will Fritz - and I have footage of this -
pulled the bolt back and a live round came out. They dusted the gun for
fingerprints. This was my third camera. They wouldn't let me out of the
building and they wouldn't let anyone else in. I never saw my film on
the air because I had to get the film to someone outside. This was the
first film from there. We had Mal Couch's film of the crowd but not of
the President being hit. [How did you get the film out?] There's a story
for you. I actually handed it out through the door but it had been
publicized over the air and established everywhere that I had thrown it
out of the building through a window. I hesitate to tell you the real
story. I started to throw it out of the building but being so close and
knowing that we had the other film, I wanted our station to be the first
to show a film of the assassination. A A.J. L'Hoste was under the
window. I yelled out to him. In actuality I tossed the film out the
front door to Ron Reiland who had gotten back from covering the
apprehension of Oswald at the Texas Theater. This was another ABC
exclusive. There were 2 policemen at the Depository door. They were not
sure that I should get things outside. Ron was outside and I was inside.
One of the policemen there called a Lieutenant and while they were
calling him, I threw the film
out....."
------------------------------[quote off]
David Von Pein
moved. Alyea said that {DPD Captain Will} Fritz picked up all three
shells and held them in his hand while Alyea filmed them. But this
part of the film Alyea claims he shot has never surfaced--a highly
unusual circumstance considering that much of Alyea's film was
broadcast UNEDITED over WFAA. .... In any event, if he in fact saw
Fritz pick up the shells it probably was AFTER the crime scene photos
had been taken." -- V.B.; "RH"
tomnln
http://www.jfk-online.com/alyea.html
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1184045758....@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
Gil Jesus
In any event, if he in fact saw
> Fritz pick up the shells it probably was AFTER the crime scene photos
> had been taken." -- V.B.; "RH"
He in fact saw it and it was BEFORE the crime scene photos were taken.
Alyea arrived with Fritz on the sixth floor.
Take your 'probably' and stick it up your ass. You're misleading
people again, as usual.
David Von Pein
Here's something you can stick up your kooky ass......
Even if Fritz did pick up those shells before they were officially
photographed -- HOW DOES THAT ACTIVITY MAKE THOSE SAME SHELLS CEASE
BEING SHELLS FROM RIFLE C2766?
The ONLY way your argument about Fritz picking up the shells would
have any merit at all is if you can prove the shells being handled
(either before or after they were photographed) ARE NOT THE C2766
SHELLS THAT ARE NOW IN EVIDENCE.
In other words -- Did Fritz, et al, just HAPPEN to have some extra
C2766 spent shells to sprinkle around the crime scene on November
22nd?
If you can't prove the shells in the Nest were "fakes" or
"plants" .... then SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT IT!
A similar "shell" scenario existed on Tenth Street too; i.e.:
Were the Tippit bullet shells from Oswald's revolver photographed by
the DPD before they were picked up by Benavides, Davis, and Davis?
Answer: No.
Yes, I realize that those three witnesses were merely civilians and
not cops or crime-scene investigators, therefore they can't be placed
in quite the same basket as Capt. J. Will Fritz of the DPD (who should
certainly have known better, if he did, in fact, pick up the shells
before Studebaker or Day could take pictures of them).
But the same exact situation regarding the PHYSICAL SHELLS THEMSELVES
really does apply to the shells picked up (and not photographed on the
ground) at Tenth Street, too.
In short, there is NO reason at all to believe that Capt. Fritz (or
anyone else) switched any bullet shells in the Sniper's Nest on
11/22/63, regardless of exactly when the shells were photographed.
Nor, in point of actual fact (and common sense), could there really
have been any OPPORTUNITY for any "switching" or "planting" of bullet
shells to have taken place.
If conspiracy-loving kooks think that such an opportunity did exist on
the afternoon of November 22....then tell us where the cops got the
spent bullet hulls to plant? Where did they come from? And who did the
planting/switching?
Sheer speculation doesn't count. Sorry.
dcwi...@netscape.net
report:
Capt. Fritz, Sims & Boyd went to the SE window on the 6th floor & saw
3 empty rifle hulls on the floor near the window. The empty hulls
were found about 1:15pm. Mooney said he found them & left them lay as
they were. We stayed there with the empty hulls to preserve the scene
& a methodical search was started by other officers. About 1;20PM, LT
Day & Det Studebaker arrived on the 6th floor.
So much for Bugliosi's assumption....
And isn't it odd that none of the dozens of cameramen got a picture of
Mooney leaning out the window...?
David Von Pein
LOL.
And nobody got a picture of Oswald walking out the front door of the
TSBD either....and yet we know he walked out that door with lots of
cameras snapping away three minutes after 12:30.
Go figure.
dcwi...@netscape.net
No comment on the Boyd/Sims report which contradicts VB's quotes from
Studebaker & co.?? Again, inadequate research on his part....
dw
dcwi...@netscape.net
OK, then. The Boyd/Sims report stands--Bugliosi flops again!
dw
dcwi...@netscape.net
Let's hear if for the Boyd/Sims report! Discredits Studebaker,
Mooney, & Vincent "Half the Facts" Bugliosi!
dw
jfkdis...@gmail.com
in the following affidavit he even states an obvious untruth, quote, "About 12:15 P.M. on this same date, after I had eaten my lunch, I went to the fifth floor of the building to watch the parade of the President pass the building. Bonnie Ray Williams and James Jarman, who also worked at this building went with me. We took a position in the south-east corner of the building on the fifth floor and I was looking out the window which is closest to the east end of the building overlooking Elm Street."
On the contrary, Mr. Norman, Bonnie Ray Williams' sworn account is he joined you and Jarman *afterwards*, so, let's backtrack shall we on the notion, quote, Bonnie Ray Williams went anywhere with him, even going as far as saying he spent until 12:20PM one floor higher than Norman's position, but ventured down only after feeling like no one else was coming up to view the procession from the sixth floor as he had been told others would just as they all broke for lunch (his words, not mine).
We are left to wonder, What else did Mr. Norman lie about??
At least he didn't wear dress shoes to lay down some new flooring on the 6th floor for fours like this fellow ---> http://jfk.fanforum.co/post/whos-on-first-7486858
Jack Kennedy
In fact, I dare anyone try to duplicate firing the same rifle and producing the same results.
The moment anyone steps into the "official" sniper's nest, especially if they are a right-handed shooter, it becomes crystal clear that dog don't hunt...
This may in fact be the very reason it has been cordon off... http://jfk.fanforum.co/
donald willis
>
> Mr. Norman indeed sounds coached...
>
> in the following affidavit he even states an obvious untruth, quote, "About 12:15 P.M. on this same date, after I had eaten my lunch, I went to the fifth floor of the building to watch the parade of the President pass the building. Bonnie Ray Williams and James Jarman, who also worked at this building went with me. We took a position in the south-east corner of the building on the fifth floor and I was looking out the window which is closest to the east end of the building overlooking Elm Street."
>
> On the contrary, Mr. Norman, Bonnie Ray Williams' sworn account is he joined you and Jarman *afterwards*,
dcw