My Research Into Birch Society and Related Topics
ernie1241
is based primarily upon first-time released FBI files and documents
may be seen at:
JBS Report Chapters 1 thru 4: http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/jbs-1
(1) FBI Evaluations of Robert Welch and the John Birch Society
including a brief introduction to the controversy over Robert Welch's
book-length "private letter" entitled The Politician.
(2) FBI vs JBS on Internal Security Status of U.S.
(3) FBI vs JBS on Communist Infiltration of Clergy and Religious
Institutions
(4) FBI vs JBS on Communists in the Department of Health, Education,
Welfare
JBS Report, Chapter 5: http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/jbs-2
(5) FBI vs JBS on Dr. Harry A. Overstreet as an alleged Communist
Sympathizer or Dupe
JBS Report, Chapters 6-7: http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/jbs-3
(6) FBI vs. JBS on Civil Rights Movement -- including Alan Stang's
1965 book, It's Very Simple, and, Highlander Folk School as an alleged
"Communist Training School"
(7) FBI vs JBS on Persons JBS Claims To Be "Experts" on Communism
(includes discussion of Dan Smoot, W. Cleon Skousen, David Gumaer,
Julia Brown, Lola Belle Holmes, among others
SEE ALSO:
Details re: MY RESEARCH here - updated 5/16/08:
http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/home
my January 2008 26-page report on former FBI Special Agent Dan Smoot
at:
http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/smoot
Aside from mis-representing his FBI background, Smoot's observations
and conclusions about the civil rights movement and organizations like
NAACP (which are identical to those circulated by the John Birch
Society) are contradicted by sources both he and the Birch Society
recommended as authoritative and reliable--including former CPUSA
members who were FBI informants and whom subsequently became paid
speakers for the John Birch Society! See my Smoot report for
details.
My May 2008 9-page report on Edgar C. Bundy (Church League of America)
at:
http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/bundy-1
My May 2008 21-page report on Martin Luther King Jr. and the
"Communist Training School" at:
http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/HFS-1
my 20-page bibliography concerning anti-CFR and anti-Illuminati books,
pamphlets, and articles since the beginning of the 20th century (copy
available upon request)
my 57-page bibliography of academic theses and doctoral dissertations
pertaining to the right-wing in the United States (copy available upon
request)
my December 2007 13-page article entitled "Purpose of Conspiracy
Theories" at:
http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/conspiracytheories
Questions, criticisms, and comments may be directed to me at:
Erni...@aol.com
curtjester1
Tell us what you think about the Birchers and the assassination of
JFK. I would be most interested in what is thought of H.L Hunt
(richest man in the U.S.) and holder of JBS meetings in his home.
CJ
Mike Russell
summary of the major points.
ernie1241
that he even supported the JBS. However, his son, Nelson Bunker Hunt,
is on the JBS National Council.
I've seen no credible data regarding any JBS connection (as an
organization) to the assassination of JFK.
However, some individual members/sympathizers of the JBS were involved
in preparing and publishing the nasty "Wanted For Treason" flyer that
appeared in Dallas and Robert Alan Surrey and Joseph Grinnan (JBS
members) were involved in the famous anti-JFK newspaper ad "Welcome
Mr. Kennedy" that was published in the Dallas Morning News on the day
of JFK's assassination.
A lot of false or highly suspect data about this matter has been
circulated by Harry J. Dean who claims he was an FBI "undercover
agent" or informant within the Birch Society. However, Dean's
assertions about his background are fabrications.
Recently, I received an FBI document which pertains to an inquiry
about a column by James Horwitz published on page 2 of the 3/16/77
issue of the Las Virgenes (CA) Independent Valley News.
The column reported on their "exclusive interview" with Harry Dean
during which he repeated his claims about his alleged association with
the FBI as an undercover operative or informant from 1960-1965.
The Assistant Director in Charge of the FBI's Los Angeles field office
(Robert E. Gebhardt) responded to an inquiry about Dean's assertions
and he forwarded a copy of his 4/1/77 reply to James K. Coffin, the
Publisher of the Las Virgenes Independent Valley News. You may obtain
a copy of the column, the inquiry, and the reply by requesting FBI Los
Angeles field office file 100-59001, serial #1258.
Here is the pertinent excerpt of Gebhardt's reply:
"In the interest of accuracy, I must advise you that Harry Dean has
never been an undercover operative of the Federal Bureau of
Investigation, has never been an informant of this Bureau, and has
never been instructed to perform any act on behalf of the Federal
Bureau of Investigation. Furthermore, I can tell you that the FBI has
never investigated the John Birch Society. I am bringing the above
information your attention. You might consider furnishing this
information to the readers of your column."
On May 16, 10:54�pm, curtjester1 <curtjest...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> CJ- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Gil Jesus
the FBI would never lie.
the FBI would never ignore witnesses.
the FBI would never alter affidavits.
the FBI would never intimidate witnesses.
the FBI would never suppress evidence.
the FBI would never tamper with evidence.
Let's look at the right-wing nuts in Dallas from 1961 to 1963 -- Billy
James Hargis, General Walker, Robert Welch among them:
curtjester1
> Curt: I'm not aware that H.L. Hunt "held JBS meetings in his home" or
> that he even supported the JBS. However, his son, Nelson Bunker Hunt,
> is on the JBS National Council.
>
> I've seen no credible data regarding any JBS connection (as an
> organization) to the assassination of JFK.
>
LBJ's mistress, who knew him and hobnobbed with him. Jack Ruby had
his literature on him when he was arrested for killing LHO. Ruby
provided girls, gambling, and drugs to H.L. H.L was known by his top
aide, Curington, to have seen Ruby, Oswald, Oswald's handler,
DeMorenshildt, and H.L together on "various occasions." Here is a
chapter on H.L. from a book that goes for about $40 on ebay.
http://www.voxfux.com/kennedy/farewell/farewell11.html
Lots of people are FBI informants. Jack Ruby was because he didn't
want other people coming in to his mob territory of illegal
activities, and snitched them off.
JEH probably didn't care about the JBS because he already had an 'anti-
communist' aura over him. He went after all those gremlins while the
Mob ran roughshod over him. Basically Hoover only went after people
that he could use, like President's, and people with lots of money
like the Murchison's of Dallas who owned the Cowboys, and vacationed
at his resort in California every year. I just did a piece where JEH
was ordered to close down the anti-Cuba camps in Lake Ponchartrain, LA
where they were making and practicing invasion plans against Castro
and Cuba. JEH out of hatred and defiance just had one of the six
camps closed. And as Gil is alluding to, hated the Kennedy's so much
and had everything to lose by them, that he helped the conspirators
not only kill him by complicity, also helped protect the conspirators
by maneuvering the investigation through the top of his office to
'overlook' the evidence and the people that were under him, to make
sure there was only one man guilty in the American Public's eye, LHO.
CJ
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
ernie1241
from my city's airport. It's "possible" that as I type this reply to
you, a Boeing 737 may crash into my home---but I don't operate on that
assumption---nor do my neighbors.
The FBI is an institution. It has employed something like 50,000
people over the course of the past 50 years. It has MILLIONS of
documents that are serialized not only in FBI files but also in the
files of other Justice Department units as well as other government
agencies. It is very hard to conceive of how someone (even if they
wanted to) could comb through every document ever produced at the
Bureau (and, moreover, cross-referenced in numerous separate files and
discussed in other documents also filed/serialized somewhere) in an
attempt to what? Edit the documents?
Much of YOUR knowledge about FBI illegal activity comes from
meticulous research into FBI archives (i.e. those millions of
documents you think may have been altered or "suppressed"?) as well as
interviews with former FBI Assistant Directors and Section Chiefs and
Supervisors. Why didn't they "suppress" all the embarrassing stuff
which indisputably proves their illegal behavior and which became the
basis of the Church Committee hearings and report?
Most parents know that they can't even get their kids to do what
they're told. One wonders how a person controls the behavior of 6000+
FBI employees not to mention the employees at all the other agencies
which received FBI reports and documents --- without anybody ever
knowing?
You can FABRICATE any "possible" scenario you want...but it doesn't
make it true or even plausible. Stick to verifiable FACTS. Otherwise
you are a FICTION writer. We all love well-constructed stories about
villains -- but, at some point, we must distinguish between factual
and unsubstantiated assertions.
Finally: if your comments have any relation to my report on Harry
Dean, I'd merely point out that a lot of Dean's remarks are self-
evidently false as can be demonstrated by even the most cursory
research into his own writings.
ernie1241
statements upon. Have you investigated her supporting documentation?
H.L. Hunt did enjoy gambling and he had a "health" fetish interest in
unorthodox remedies-- but I've never seen any data suggesting that he
was ever taking drugs -- by which I presume you mean illegal drugs?
Yes -- "lots of people" were FBI "informants" but many times, people
who CLAIMED to have been an FBI "undercover agent" or "informant" were
lying. I document this in my JBS report -- chapter 7 and also in my
new report on Edgar Bundy (Church League of America).
Legitimate FBI informants were rated in terms of their reliability.
Initially, they were on probationary status in order weed out those
whose information was useless or non-credible. There are ways to
establish who GENUINELY was an FBI informant -- and I suspect that
someone like Harry Dean has never been rigorously questioned about his
claims.
Your comments about J. Edgar Hoover and the JBS are not supported by
any evidence I have seen. I have acquired more than 30,000 pages of
FBI HQ and field office files on the JBS and its prominent members and
sympathizers. In fact, in many instances, I am the ONLY person who
has ever requested and received those documents --- so I can't imagine
what your statements are based on. I suggest you read my JBS Report
(65 pages). You will discover the attitude of senior FBI officials
(including Hoover) about Robert Welch and the JBS. I cite numerous
direct quotations from FBI reports and memos.
On May 17, 4:22 pm, curtjester1 <curtjest...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 17, 10:35 am,ernie1241<ernie1...@gmail.com> wrote:> Curt: I'm not aware that H.L. Hunt "held JBS meetings in his home" or
curtjester1
> Curt: I have no idea who Madeleine Brown is or what she bases her
> statements upon. Have you investigated her supporting documentation?
>
shut-down, discredit, because as they say she was too much of a
smoking gun. This pattern existed all throughout the investigation of
JFK especially when the public didn't buy it and the real research and
investigation began. As far as JBS, it wouldn't be very hard to
fathom since his sons would likely be following in H.L's footsteps. I
hope you got a chance to peruse the chapter I gave you to the extent
of his radio and literature he put out and how powerful he actually
was. Here is a few things Madeleine put out....after most of the
conspirators were dead and gone.
Robert Gaylon Ross 81 Minute Interview with Madeleine Brown
http://hubpages.com/hub/Madeleine_Duncan_Brown
Subject: JFK Mistress Speaks Out --- Prisonplanet.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79lOKs0Kr_Y
The Murchison Party (M. Brown, May Newman)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awGbwIIIYug&feature=related
J. Edgar Hoover, Oil Friends, and 'Non-Existant' Mafia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fqMA9YV3ks&feature=related
> H.L. Hunt did enjoy gambling and he had a "health" fetish interest in
> unorthodox remedies-- but I've never seen any data suggesting that he
> was ever taking drugs -- by which I presume you mean illegal drugs?
>
I will try to look it up. Jack Ruby was the biggest heroin dealer
(via FBI informancy) in Dallas via Havana. He made a lot of flights
to Havana and was not the 'two-bit strip joint owner' that is
portrayed by WC defenders. If I remember right, H.L had a penchant
for coke. H.L. basically was an untouchable in all the JFK mess
because most of his doings were by money, especially his gung ho
attitude of overthrowing Castro and financing a lot of the stuff going
on in Lake Ponchartrain. A lot of right-wingers were behind that too,
like the Luce's of Time-Life.
> Yes -- "lots of people" were FBI "informants" but many times, people
> who CLAIMED to have been an FBI "undercover agent" or "informant" were
> lying. I document this in my JBS report -- chapter 7 and also in my
> new report on Edgar Bundy (Church League of America).
>
Here's a fact. In 1971 the American Communist Party was down to 2,800
people from the 1940's when it was up to 80,000. In 1971 it was
estimated that over half of the FBI informants were Communists. Pg.
216 of Crossfire..Jim Marrs.
> Legitimate FBI informants were rated in terms of their reliability.
> Initially, they were on probationary status in order weed out those
> whose information was useless or non-credible. There are ways to
> establish who GENUINELY was an FBI informant -- and I suspect that
> someone like Harry Dean has never been rigorously questioned about his
> claims.
>
Whether it's bona fide or not,....his claims of infiltration must
stand on their own merits.
> Your comments about J. Edgar Hoover and the JBS are not supported by
> any evidence I have seen. I have acquired more than 30,000 pages of
> FBI HQ and field office files on the JBS and its prominent members and
> sympathizers. In fact, in many instances, I am the ONLY person who
> has ever requested and received those documents --- so I can't imagine
> what your statements are based on. I suggest you read my JBS Report
> (65 pages). You will discover the attitude of senior FBI officials
> (including Hoover) about Robert Welch and the JBS. I cite numerous
> direct quotations from FBI reports and memos.
>
I can only say what I think. At the time the Mafia was taking a
stronghold in America, JEH only had 4 agents doing a desk job on
them. JEH went after people that were non-threatening. I think he
thought of the JBS as eccentric. I am one to go along with some of
the stuff they say, like what they would agree on in Gary Allen's None
Dare Call It Conspiracy (an online read). I do think the JBS has
people like H.L. Hunt who think the commies are out to steal his
money...and are duped by those who know in those circles that
capitalism is what gave Marx and the Bolsheviks their source for
propaganda and power via Wall Street. Anyway, that's why I asked to
draw out what you know instead of going through 65 pages of not-so-
easy to read documents and stuff. As far as agents and suppressing,
as far as the JFK assassination, you just have to look at the
bumbling's. Their closely moniotring of LHO (who was an FBI informant
by many) - only to say they knew nothing when they took him into
custody. The teletypes that were received by agents in Dallas
disappearing...and most of all the evidence gathered by the Dallas
Police and photographed..confiscated by Hoover and the FBI..to be
returned 4 days later with half the evidence gone to redacted, to all
the things they had to do. Someone had to come up with the idea that
one man was guilty and it came from that office within an hour after
the shooting, and publicly a few days later by memo (without any real
evidence). You can find much of that stuff online in Harvey and Lee
for specifics. If you want to know the man Hoover and how he handled
or manhandled his agents...I might suggest an Anthony Summers
book..like The Secret and Confidential Life of J.Edgar Hoover.
CJ
Gil Jesus
were the ones who put Ronald Reagan in the governor's mansion. In
addition, the 1960's saw a growing number of Birchers among the ranks
of law enforement officers.
"...the John Birch Society has enlisted, according to publicity chief
( U.S. Rep. John ) Rousellot, a 'growing number of police and
personnel in sheriff's departments throughout the country.' Such
recruitment has been pressed vigorously; in many cities its success,
and the possibilities of police-Birch alliances, have become matters
of deep concern." ( 1 )
"Commenting on police membership in the John Birch Society, Mayor
James H.J. Tate of Philadelphia remarked:
'This is the way the Nazi party began'" ( 2 )
Would such a recruitment in Bircher membership and philosophy among
those charged with protecting a President who they saw as an enemy
affect the level of protection they afforded him ?
Well, what do YOU think ?
From:
1. The Radical Right; Report on the John Birch Society and Its Allies
by Benjamin R. Epstein and Arnold Forster, Random House 1966,1967. pg.
177
2. ibid pg. 184
Gil Jesus
> CJ, also the Birchers were very strong in California in the 60's. They
> were the ones who put Ronald Reagan in the governor's mansion. In
> addition, the 1960's saw a growing number of Birchers among the ranks
> of law enforement officers.
>
> "...the John Birch Society has enlisted, according to publicity chief
> ( U.S. Rep. John ) Rousellot, a 'growing number of police and
> personnel in sheriff's departments throughout the country.' Such
> recruitment has been pressed vigorously; in many cities its success,
> and the possibilities of police-Birch alliances, have become matters
> of deep concern." ( 1 )
>
> "Commenting on police membership in the John Birch Society, Mayor
> James H.J. Tate of Philadelphia remarked:
>
> 'This is the way the Nazi party began'" ( 2 )
>
> Would such a recruitment in Bircher membership and philosophy among
> those charged with protecting a President who they saw as an enemy
> affect the level of protection they afforded him ?
>
> Well, what do YOU think ?
Let's expound on this a little more:
The Dallas Police controlled the manpower allotments, the crime
scenes, the "evidence", the lineups, the custody and safety of all
witnesses and suspects, the protection of the prisoner's family and
all aspects of the preliminary investigation.
"No crime scene involved in the assassination was ever truly sealed.
They (DPD) rushed to the grassy knoll, yet stayed only long enough to
take a cursory look and sniff gunpowder, to which they either attached
no significance or chose to ignore.
There is a pervasive pattern of NOT taking names and addresses of
witnesses. Certain witnesses were totally ignored. " (1)
And although they knew Oswald was missing from the TSBD, no all-points
bulletin ( to surrounding counties and states ) was ever broadcast for
any suspect, EVEN OSWALD.
"The press was allowed to overrun police headquarters. Evidence was
faked, altered, or suppressed. Ridiculous lineups were held at which
witnesses, after seeing Oswald's picture all over the newspapers, were
asked to identify him amid teenagers, and an overweight Mexican."
(2)
And despite threats against Oswald's life, meager security was
afforded the Oswald transfer and Oswald was executed in front of 75
armed policemen by "policeophile" Jack Ruby.''
Now, who says that the Birchers were not involved in the Kennedy
assassination ?
1. Treachery In Dallas, Walt Brown, Carroll & Graf, 1st edition, 1995
pg. 125.
2. ibid. pg. 126
curtjester1
>
> - Show quoted text -
Good stuff, Gil. Do you know if the Minutemen were associated or were
on off-shoot of the JBS, of which a lot of DPD force had membership
in?
CJ
Gil Jesus
After Oswald's murder, a warning letter was allegedly sent out to
every member of the Minutemen organization with expediency and also
with secrecy. A copy of the letter surfaced thanks to an undercover
agent who had infiltrated the group and was on their mailing list.
I posted that letter some time ago and it can be found at this link :
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/42d27df8603e15e4
Gil Jesus
<curtj...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Good stuff, Gil. Do you know if the Minutemen were associated or were
>on off-shoot of the JBS, of which a lot of DPD force had membership
>in?
>
>CJ
Robert De Pugh, founder of the Minutemen, was himself a member of the
John Birch Society before being drummed out when he started his own
group.
Another member of the Minutemen, Richard Lauchli, was the arms
provider for the training camp outside Lake Ponchartrain near New
Orleans.
This is the same camp where Oswald visited on July 24, 1963 and was
"raided" by the FBI seven days later.
A few days after the "raid", Oswald was on a New Orleans street corner
passing out "Fair Play for Cuba" pamphlets.
It's pretty obvious to me that Oswald was the informant for the raid
on that Minuteman camp. When they found out that he rolled over on
them, he was sent out by the Minuteman Bannister to create " a phony"
persona of a pro-Castro "peacenik", advocating the normalization of
relations between the US and Cuba.
Exactly what JFK was looking into during 1963.
Oswald was video taped by an associate of General Walker from St.
Paul, Minnesota on the day he was confronted by the Cubans and a
scuffle broke out.
Now ask yourself this question, CJ:
How would Walker (in Dallas) have known that Oswald was going to be on
that street corner in New Orleans ( to send this guy to video tape it)
if Oswald WASN'T being set up ?
curtjester1
> On Sun, 18 May 2008 10:29:21 -0700 (PDT), curtjester1
>
> >Good stuff, Gil. Do you know if the Minutemen were associated or were
> >on off-shoot of the JBS, of which a lot of DPD force had membership
> >in?
>
> >CJ
>
> Robert De Pugh, founder of the Minutemen, was himself a member of the
> John Birch Society before being drummed out when he started his own
> group.
>
> Another member of the Minutemen, Richard Lauchli, was the arms
> provider for the training camp outside Lake Ponchartrain near New
> Orleans.
>
> This is the same camp where Oswald visited on July 24, 1963 and was
> "raided" by the FBI seven days later.
>
> A few days after the "raid", Oswald was on a New Orleans street corner
> passing out "Fair Play for Cuba" pamphlets.
>
> It's pretty obvious to me that Oswald was the informant for the raid
> on that Minuteman camp. When they found out that he rolled over on
> them, he was sent out by the Minuteman Bannister to create " a phony"
> persona of a pro-Castro "peacenik", advocating the normalization of
> relations between the US and Cuba.
>
about the camps. Robert Kennedy even knew McLaney. There were plenty
of anti-Castro folk that weren't quite as militant as the likes of
Banister, and those pushing the camps. I believe they are the ones
that spurred JFK to close the camps. And like Hoover the way he was,
'cooperated' by only closing one of the six, to thumb his nose.
> Exactly what JFK was looking into during 1963.
>
> Oswald was video taped by an associate of General Walker from St.
> Paul, Minnesota on the day he was confronted by the Cubans and a
> scuffle broke out.
>
> Now ask yourself this question, CJ:
>
> How would Walker (in Dallas) have known that Oswald was going to be on
> that street corner in New Orleans ( to send this guy to video tape it)
> if Oswald WASN'T being set up ?
Trouble is, a lot of folks down there were capable and probably doing
the setting up. It was a hub, Banister's office, CIA offices, the
DA's office.....but you do make your case. Walker didn't obviously
care for JFK and H.L Hunt didn't because of all the money he was going
to lose in oil profits....and it has been suggested that they both
might have gone down to Mexico City right after the JFK shooting to
possibly let thing's cool off.
CJ
ernie1241
Well, Curt, to begin at the end of your comments:
(1) Anthony Summers is a British journalist and musician -- not an
historian. He has no record whatsoever of serious research into FBI
history. His book (which I have read) is full of 50-year-old rumors
and gossip that has been discredited by virtually all of our nation's
top scholars on Hoover and the FBI---even those (like Dr. Athan
Theoharis) who are severe critics of Hoover and the Bureau. In fact,
much of what YOU think you know about illegal or unethical conduct by
the FBI, is the result of meticulous research by scholars like
Theoharis who have uncovered previously unknown material in FBI files
-- including what remains of Hoover's "personal and confidential"
files as well as his Associate Director, Clyde Tolson.
(2) As far as the beginning of your message is concerned regarding
"suppress" and "shut down" etc. I'd be interested in learning how
you went about verifying her accusations or statements? Did Brown
provide any bibliographic references you could check for accuracy?
Was she quoting from PRIMARY sources or secondary sources? or what?
(3) With respect to your comment re: sons following in father's
footsteps: Again, this is more of an ASSUMPTION than anything
provable. I tend to stay away from assumptions. It makes factual
discussion easier. Plus, as I am sure you know, many times the "sons"
rebel against their fathers -- the builders of the empire than gave
them their inherited wealth -- and that includes their political
views.
(4) With respect to your comments regarding CPUSA membership: Your
comments really don't have much substantive meaning because the most
important aspect of ANY organization is NOT the formal membership but
the state-of-mind "members" who may never join but who may contribute
money, or express their support, and repeat the allegations and
distribute the propaganda of the group(s) which they are NOT members
of. The FBI estimated that there were at least 10 "fellow-travelers"
or "sympathizers" for every CP member. That's probably fairly
accurate for most groups --- including the JBS. Incidentally, I have
the FBI file on CPUSA membership. The Bureau's "top informants"
within the CPUSA was Morris Childs and his brother Jack. Morris gave
the FBI copies of CPUSA documents, mailing lists, list of
contributors, subscription lists, etc.
Jim Marr's comment about the number of FBI "informants" within the
CPUSA is not shared by most knowledgeable scholars. He may be
conflating "sources" with "informants". A "source" may report
pertinent information about some matter (based upon information in his/
her possession which he/she may not have verified for accuracy or info
which is limited to a particular time and place) whereas the
"informant" is often actually INSIDE the targeted organization. ALL
informants provide RAW INFORMATION which has to be evaluated, weighed,
and compared to other RAW INFORMATION being received---including from
other informants. So, there's nothing particularly magical about
claiming to be an "FBI informant" -- particularly when many of them
were regarded as "unreliable" or "of unknown reliability".
(5) I don't understand your comment in reply to mine about Harry
Dean. If, as the FBI Agent in Charge of Los Angeles field office
stated, Harry Dean was never an FBI informant nor was he connected in
any way to the FBI nor did he "infiltrate" the JBS for the FBI ---
then one has to ask the obvious question: why is Dean lying? As I
said previously, there are ways to establish whether or not someone
was genuinely an informant for the FBI. I have read a lot of Dean's
comments on "Education Forum" and he clearly doesn't know what he is
talking about in many cases. BUT -- if you feel his remarks are
credible --- so be it. Just don't be surprised when you get egg on
your face when someone comes along and disproves Dean's assertions.
(6) Your comment about my 65-page report being "hard to read"
intrigues me. It is written in plain English and quotes numerous FBI
documents. What's hard to understand? And if you can't make it
through 65 pages of material with reams of supporting bibliographic
references so you can check the accuracy for yourself --- then how do
you expect me to believe that you are capable of understanding and
analyzing more COMPLEX information --- especially if two or more
sources you trust CONTRADICT each other or even their own statements
(at different times)? How do you determine what is accurate and
truthful? Your methodology would be interesting to discuss.
ernie1241
elsewhere where the "Birchers as Police" controversy was most heated
-- was focused upon how JBS police might be affected by the JBS
position on the civil rights movement and civil rights leaders/
activists.
Mayor Tate's comment ("this is the way the Nazi Party began") is so
absurd (but understandable given the temper of the times) that it
doesn't even require much comment. Demagogues in our country tend to
equate anything right-of-center with "fascism" or "Hitler" or
"nazism". Last year, the Des Moines Register tried to link the JBS
with the KKK and the American Nazi Party in an editorial --- which
certainly amused the Jewish members of the JBS (including David
Eisenberg who is on the JBS National Council and other Jews who have
been among the Birch Society's most prolific writers and endorsers
including a Rabbi whose name escapes me at the moment.)
Despite all of the fevered rhetoric, however, there never was any
evidence that JBS policemen didn't perform their job properly. Even
Bill Buckley Jr. whose "National Review" articles on the JBS were the
most potent anti-JBS articles ever written -- defended the JBS on the
police issue. The most serious situation occurred in Santa Ana
California where a group of Bircher police attempted to undermine the
authority of the Police Chief.
I've never seen anything to establish that any member of the Secret
Service was sympathetic to JBS views. In fact, because of the
background checks done on Secret Service (and FBI), it is very
unlikely that such people would ever be employed.
----
On May 18, 5:11�am, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
> CJ, also the Birchers were very strong in California in the 60's. They
> were the ones who put Ronald Reagan in the governor's mansion. In
> addition, the 1960's saw a growing number of Birchers among the ranks
> of law enforement officers.
>
> "...the JohnBirchSocietyhas enlisted, according to publicity chief
> ( U.S. Rep. John ) Rousellot, a 'growing number of police and
> personnel in sheriff's departments throughout the country.' Such
> recruitment has been pressed vigorously; in many cities its success,
> and the possibilities of police-Birchalliances, have become matters
> of deep concern." ( 1 )
>
> "Commenting on police membership in the JohnBirchSociety, Mayor
> James H.J. Tate of Philadelphia remarked:
>
> 'This is the way the Nazi party began'" ( 2 )
>
> Would such a recruitment in Bircher membership and philosophy among
> those charged with protecting a President who they saw as an enemy
> affect the level of protection they afforded him ?
>
> Well, what do YOU think ?
>
> From:
>
> 1. The Radical Right; Report on the JohnBirchSocietyand Its Allies