Debating The John F. Kennedy Assassination (Part 21)
David Von Pein
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SUBJECT -- The JFK Assassination: The Ongoing "Lone Assassin vs.
Conspiracy" Debate.
FEATURED TEXT -- Archived JFK Forum Messages From April 2006, May
2006, June 2006, and March 2007.
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CTer (A CONSPIRACY THEORIST) -- Oswald's fingerprints were not located
on the rifle.
DVP (DAVID VON PEIN) -- I'm not quite sure if you're now scolding me
for merely a "semantics" issue, because I said "fingerprints" instead
of the more-technically-accurate "palmprint" (singular)....or if
you've set up residence in the proverbial "Everything Was Faked" camp
occupied by so many CTers of the world.
Anyway....
Do you think perhaps Lee Harvey Oswald's palmprint was "placed" on his
rifle by the FBI? Is that it? But you must know darn well that J.C.
Day of the Dallas Police lifted that print off the rifle on 11/22/63,
right?.....
J.C. DAY -- "On the bottom side of the barrel which was covered by the
wood, I found traces of a palmprint. I dusted these and tried lifting
them, the prints, with scotch tape in the usual manner. A faint
palmprint came off. I could still see traces of the print under the
barrel and was going to try to use photography to bring off or bring
out a better print. About this time I received instructions from the
chief's office to go no further with the processing, it was to be
released to the FBI for them to complete."
And then there's print expert Sebastian Latona's confirmation as to
whose palmprint was taken off of CE139 (Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano
rifle).....
MR. LATONA -- "The palmprint which appears on the lift was identified
by me as the right palmprint of Lee Harvey Oswald."
Given the above conclusion by Latona....and given the fact that J.C.
Day dusted the box in question with powder and developed the palmprint
ON NOVEMBER 22ND....what more needs to be said?
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/day1.htm
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/latona.htm
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CTer -- The pattern didn't look like one bullet going through two
bodies. The Warren Commission was forced to make it so appear. You're
stuck with a zig-zagging bullet.
DVP -- And, naturally, Dale K. Myers is a scheming, rotten liar too,
with nothing on his mind other than putting forth the lies of the WC
and the Single-Bullet Theory...even though when he began his computer
animation project he was a CTer himself. Right?
CTers would be better off trying a Mark Fuhrman-like SBT dodge, and
then assume the bullet somehow bounced off of something wholly unknown
after exiting JFK's throat. (Kind of like skipping rocks off a pond I
guess; even though there's no water in JFK's pond; so how it managed
an upward tilt upon exiting Kennedy's neck, only Mr. Fuhrman seems to
know.)
But at least Fuhrman's craziness is only one-third as crazy as a CT-
Kook's anti-SBT version of 3 bullets and 3 assassins responsible for
the SBT wounds.
http://jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/concl.htm
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CTer -- The FBI was there to re-write history if needed; as they did
with any number of eyewitness accounts.
DVP -- And if Lee Oswald had wandered outside and gotten himself
photographed and filmed by, say, Phil Willis, Abraham Zapruder, Tina
Towner, Wilma Bond, and Dave Wiegman --- just exactly how was the FBI
going to "re-write history" then? Of course, many conspiracists still
do, indeed, think Oswald WAS photographed at exactly 12:30 PM....by
Jim Altgens.
Was the FBI prepared to delete Oswald's image out of every potential
film and photo he appeared in after he might have decided to walk
outside....even though (per the can't-miss plan of these ace
conspirators) Oswald was needed on the 6th Floor at 12:30?
CTers do realize how stupid such a "We'll Just Let Oswald Wander
Around Aimlessly At 12:30" Patsy plot sounds when examined with just
an ounce of common sense, don't they? I wonder.
But, never let common sense get in the way of a good after-the-fact
hunk of pro-conspiracy story-telling. That's always been a kook's
motto. Why change now, right?
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/51b89da58d3e6489
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/9bce073792dae800
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CTer -- You are surely quite aware that the pattern of injuries did
NOT force authorities to develop the SBT...it was Tague's injury.
DVP -- Nonsense. Go read page #117 of the Warren Report. On that page,
the WC expressly states its belief that James Tague's injury might
very well have been caused by a fragment from the bullet that hit JFK
in the head.
Therefore, the Warren Commission wasn't boxing itself in to "needing"
the SBT at all costs. You must think the WC added in those comments
re. Tague on page 117 to cover their rear ends, right?
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0071a.htm
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CTer -- {Dale} Myers is a chronic liar and a phony.
DVP -- Oh, naturally. Any LNer who exhibits some common sense is
always regarded as a "liar" and/or a "phony" by a conspiracy kook.
Nothing new there.
And why you think Mr. Myers just "created" (from whole cloth) the
angle from the sniper's window to the limousine (and through the
victims) is something I can't figure out. But Dale's work is all laid
out on his website. The angle through the victims and back up to the
point of origin IS what it IS.....period. And it just happens to trace
back to the Oswald window.
http://jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/concl2b.htm
I wonder if CTers would question Mr. Myers' credibility if he would
have come up with a computer model that, say, produced a trajectory
cone that centered on a lower Dal-Tex floor? Or a floor in the Records
Building?
Would he be a "chronic liar" if he would have "created" those pro-CT
trajectory cones? Probably not, huh? But since he's an LNer who
supports the SBT from the 6th Floor of the Book Depository, he's a
"liar" and a "phony", right?
CTer logic belongs on the moon. (The dark side of it.)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2kEh3Kgwhk0
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CTer -- The starting data (at the level of accuracy needed) simply
doesn't exist {to prove the validity of the SBT}.
DVP -- Yeah, let's make this shooting WAY more complicated than it
needs to be. And let's make it as "impossible to solve" as humanly
possible so that the CTers can cling to their silly belief structure
for a few more decades.
I don't deny for a second that the EXACT positions of the victims in
the limo are (to a certain degree) "unknown" factors. In fact, I've
ALWAYS said this....and have stressed this limitation many times in
previous posts on JFK forums.
But many of the "starting" points and data surrounding the double-man
wounding of John Kennedy and John Connally ARE certainly there to work
with; and common sense all by itself should tell anyone examining the
overall evidence that the Single-Bullet Theory is more than mere
theory....it's almost certainly a "fact".
The "starting data" fully supports the SBT (approximated though some
of it is inevitably going to be). But CTers must "approximate" things
too, it must be remembered. They don't have a RULER TO CONSPIRACY in
this case; and to think they do have one is pure folly.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/2312ff64751f6733
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CTer -- The crime was quite simple to solve until someone dreamed up
the SBT.
DVP -- Oh sure....with this non-SBT "simplicity" involving multiple
disappearing bullets from multiple unseen killers and "creating" a
wound path that looks remarkably similar to an SBT wound path. Not to
mention the "We Got Lucky Again!" factor of having the bullet go into
Connally kinda sideways...making it look even BETTER for that silly
ol' SBT scenario. Right?
Yeah, that's MUCH simpler than the Warren Commission's theory which
involves just one bullet (that was actually found and ballistically
traced to a weapon owned by the man who murdered a policeman less than
an hour after JFK was shot).
~eyeroll~
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CTer -- Crimes are solved through VERY specific and detailed analysis,
David; not through sweeping and often unproven generalities.
DVP -- Sure, but does that mean common sense has to be tossed aside?
In the JFK case, there are various angles and trajectories that cannot
ever be determined right down to the Nth degree or inch; such as the
exact position of JFK in relation to JBC in the car; or the exact
position of JFK when he was struck by the SBT shot, because he was not
in view of Zapruder's lens at all. Nor can the exact location of the
limo be determined when the first shot struck. It's a "best guess" all
the way around.
Even CTers must admit that Dale Myers' computer-animation model is not
skewed to the point of utter lunacy re. the angles, positions of the
men, etc.
If they do believe it is skewed crazily out-of-whack like that, those
CTers are severely in need of a mental tune-up. Because the model
WORKS for the SBT, and the angles are representative of the likely
trajectory path through both victims, and the bullet's flight path
that would take it back up to the Sniper's Perch in the Book
Depository Building.
http://www.jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/concl1.htm
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CTer -- When is the last time you admitted to the possibility that
multiple snipers were involved in the attack?
DVP -- I think, if memory serves, it was Saturday, February 28, 1981
(at approx. 3:44 PM EST) -- while reading some loony-toon book written
by David S. Lifton, all about a nutsville plot about body-altering
surgery and casket-switching. That book was enough for me to KNOW that
the "Lone Nut" premise just might be a much better starting point to
begin my JFK research. ;)
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CTer -- You are aware that Lifton's book was nominated for a Pulitzer
Prize?
DVP -- Just goes to show what kind of tripe can pass for thorough,
objective journalism during some calendar years, huh?
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CTer -- When did you admit the possibility that the SBT shot (assuming
there was one) might very well have been fired from a different
location?
DVP -- Never. Why should I admit to such a highly-unlikely
possibility? Three rifle shells were found in the building from where
the SBT path lines up....Oswald's rifle was found in that same
building....and that same building featured the only person who was
seen firing a weapon at the President.
But if CTers feel there is some crime-solving advantage to be gained
by PRETENDING that another shooting location existed on 11/22/63, then
by all means...they should indulge themselves (and, of course, they
have, big-time -- placing imaginary assassins in just about every
building and Knoll and sewer lining Dealey Plaza).
We should never let the PHYSICAL EVIDENCE of "three shots only from
the TSBD" get in the way of a good-looking, movie-theater-filling,
kook-filled conspiracy theory. (That's always been my motto.) ;)
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/7448f602cc9b26e3
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/43e50295440e48b0
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CTer -- When did you admit to the enormous evidence and testimony
which indicates that a single assassin could not have fired all the
shots alone?
DVP -- Never (of course). Because there's an even MORE ENORMOUS wealth
of overall evidence (of all types) indicating that only ONE single
shooter was involved in the crime.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/4dd73f8e676a5db8
"The evidence of {Oswald's} guilt is so monumental, that he could have
just as well gone around with a large sign on his back declaring in
bold letters 'I Just Murdered President John F. Kennedy'!!! ....
There's not one tiny grain of evidence, not one microscopic speck of
evidence that ANYONE, other than Lee Harvey Oswald, was responsible
for the assassination of John F. Kennedy. .... As surely as I am
standing here, as surely as night follows day, Lee Harvey Oswald,
acting alone, was responsible for the murder of President John F.
Kennedy." -- Vincent T. Bugliosi; 1986
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CTer -- David, you wouldn't even admit to the visible damage at the
rear of Kennedy's head in the Zapruder film.
DVP -- That's because I see no "visible damage" at the rear of
Kennedy's head in the Zapruder Film. That's probably why I haven't
admitted to it. It just simply doesn't exist, as can easily be seen
via the slo-mo clip from the Z-Film provided below. .....
http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/images/Headshot-large.gif
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/9f9db2052413d59d