Does Anyone Have More Detail On This?
robcap...@netscape.com
his book "Act of Treason" (1991) and I came to a curious note for
11/5/63.
It states David Ferrie purchased a .38 caliber revolver (HSCA X, p.
112) and I'm wondering why this was mentioned but no detail given of
why he needed this gun. Since it matches the type used to shoot JDT,
it is quite intereting to find out more about it. Does anyone know
more about this pistol and what Ferrie used it for?
Todd W. Vaughan
wrote:
It does not "match" the "type used to shoot JDT", unless it has an
oversized barrel.
Does it have an oversized barrel, Rob?
Bud
rob has previously argued that Tippit was killed by an automatic.
He is the typical kook, flexible in his suspicions, eager to travel
down any road they think leads away from Oz.
Todd W. Vaughan
>
> - Show quoted text -
LOL!
An automatic?
Doe she know that Barbara Davis saw thegunman, OSWALD, emptying a gun
(you don't empty a automatic):
Mr. BALL. And what did you see the man doing?
Mrs. DAVIS. Well, first off she went to screaming before I had paid
too much attention to him, and pointing at him, and he was, what I
thought, was emptying the gun.
Mr. BALL. He had a gun in his hand?
Mrs. DAVIS. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And he was emptying it?
Mrs. DAVIS. It was open and he had his hands cocked like he was
emptying it.
Mr. DULLES. Which hand did he have it?
343
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mrs. DAVIS. Right hand.
Mr. BALL. To his left palm?
Mrs. DAVIS. Yes.
David Von Pein
>>> "Does he [Rob The Mega-Kook] know that Barbara Davis saw the gunman, OSWALD, emptying a gun? (You don't empty a automatic.)" <<<
Rob The Kook chooses to completely ignore the testimony of ALL THREE
eyewitnesses at the Tippit murder scene (B. Davis, V. Davis, and D.
Benavides) who EACH recovered shells on the ground and who EACH
watched with their own (individual) pairs of eyes as the killer dumped
shells from the Tippit murder weapon onto the ground on Tenth Street.
Here's an exchange I had with Robcap about this very issue on November
2, 2007:
======================================================
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/a4c6818d6cdc7c89
ROB SAID:
>>> "Which witness said they saw the killer shaking out bullets? It could appear to be that way from a distance to a terrified witness as the bullets automatically eject, thus the term automatic." <<<
DVP SAID:
Good God...you really ARE clueless re. the evidence, aren't you? (And
yet you're so POSITIVE that "LHO shot no one" on November 22nd. You're
Super-Pathetic!)
Virginia Davis AND Barbara Davis saw Lee Oswald (UP CLOSE, within just
a few feet of their own bodies), and both Davis girls saw Oswald
dumping shells out of his gun as LHO cut across their yard.
In both of the Davises' 11/22 affidavits, they mention the fact that
they saw a man crossing their yard "unloading his gun":
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bdavis.htm
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/vdavis.htm
~~~~~
BARBARA DAVIS -- "I heard a shot and jumped up and heard another shot.
I put on my shoes and went to the door and I saw this man walking
across my front yard unloading a gun. .... When the police arrived, I
showed one of them where I saw this man emptying his gun and we found
a shell."
VIRGINIA DAVIS -- "We heard a shot and then another shot and ran to
the side door at Patton Street. I saw the boy cutting across our yard
and he was unloading his gun. .... Jeanette {Barbara Davis} found a
[sic] empty shell that the man had unloaded and gave it to the police.
After the police had left, I found a [sic] empty shell in our yard."
~~~~~
BTW, Domingo Benavides saw the killer (whom he later stated on CBS-TV
was positively LHO) dumping shells from his gun too. .....
BENAVIDES (Via his WC session) -- "Then I seen the man turn and walk
back to the sidewalk and go on the sidewalk and he walked maybe five
foot and then kind of stalled. He didn't exactly stop. And he threw
one shell and must have took five or six more steps and threw the
other shell up, and then he kind of stepped up to a pretty good trot
going around the corner."
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/benavide.htm
ROB SAID:
>>> "12 {Tippit witnesses} initially became two, and then one, as Benevides [sic] was very hesitant and never gave a firm, definitive ID." <<<
DVP SAID:
Yes he did. Very definitively too (in front of an audience of millions
in June 1967):
EDDIE BARKER -- "Is there any doubt in your mind that Oswald was the
man you had seen shoot Tippit?"
DOMINGO BENAVIDES -- "No, sir; there was no doubt at all. Period. I
could even tell you how he combed his hair and the clothes he wore and
what-have-you and the details....and if he'd had a scar on his face, I
could have probably told you about it. You don't forget things like
that."
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/6b2a00b13bdc81ae
ROB SAID:
>>> "You got nothing {as far as "Tippit witnesses" go}." <<<
DVP SAID:
Yeah, I've only got:
1.) Helen Markham
2.) Domingo Benavides
3.) Jack Tatum
4.) William Scoggins
5.) Ted Callaway
6.) Barbara J. Davis
7.) Virginia Davis
8.) Warren Reynolds
9.) B.M. "Pat" Patterson
10.) L.J. Lewis
11.) Harold Russell
12.) B.D. Searcy
13.) Sam Guinyard
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/1bdb7e56f0427853
A couple of the above Tippit-murder witnesses don't fall into the
"Positive I.D. Of Oswald" category....but every one of them saw an
"Oswald-like" person with a gun either on 10th Street or on Patton
Avenue (approaching Jefferson Blvd.) on 11/22/63.
And the above-mentioned "baker's dozen" doesn't even count the Brocks
(Mary and Robert), who saw an Oz-like man passing through the Texaco
Station just after Tippit was shot, with Mary Brock positively
identifying the man she saw as Lee Harvey Oswald (via a January 1964
FBI Report re. Mary Brock's Nov. 22 observations, linked below):
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/brock_m.htm
So, as you can see, I've practically got "nothing"....right Mr. Kook?
ROB SAID:
>>> "Let's see some links on the verification of the gun being the {Tippit} murder weapon." <<<
DVP SAID:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/nicol.htm
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/cunningham2.htm
MR. EISENBERG -- "Now, for the record, these cartridge cases were
earlier identified as having been fired by the FBI in Commission
Exhibit No. 143, the revolver believed to have been used to kill
Officer Tippit. Also for the record, I obtained these cartridge cases,
both Exhibit 595, which are test cases, and Exhibit 594, which are
cases from the murder scene, from the FBI, and transmitted them
directly to Mr. Nicol for his examination. Mr. Nicol, did you examine
the cartridge cases in Exhibit 594 to determine whether they bad been
fired from the weapon in which the cartridge cases in Exhibit 595 had
been fired?"
JOSEPH D. NICOL (Independent Firearms Expert from Illinois) -- "Yes,
sir; I did."
MR. EISENBERG -- "And can you give us your conclusions?"
MR. NICOL -- "It is my opinion, based upon the similarity of class and
individual characteristics, that the four cartridge cases in 594 were
fired in the same weapon as produced the cartridge cases in 595."
[Re. the bullets recovered from Tippit's body...]
MR. NICOL -- "On specimen 602--I'm sorry--603, which I have designated
as Q-502, I found sufficient individual characteristics to lead me to
the conclusion that that projectile was fired in the same weapon
{CE143, Oswald's revolver} that fired the projectiles in 606."
MR. EISENBERG -- "That is to the exclusion of all other weapons?"
MR. NICOL -- "Yes, sir."
MR. EISENBERG -- "By the way, on the cartridge cases, that was also to
the exclusion of all other weapons?"
MR. NICOL -- "Correct."
~~~~~~~~~~
CORTLANDT CUNNINGHAM (FBI) -- "As a result of my examination, it is my
opinion that those four cartridge eases, Commission Exhibit 594, were
fired in the revolver, Commission Exhibit 143, to the exclusion of all
other weapons."
ROB SAID:
>>> "We know they substitued the casings, since they lacked the officer's initials he put there at the crime scene." <<<
DVP SAID:
Prove that the officer (Poe) put his initials on them at the crime
scene. You can't. Even Officer Poe HIMSELF said he couldn't be sure he
marked them. Why isn't HIS OWN WORD good enough for you kooks?
ROB SAID:
>>> "I want those reports by those cops." <<<
DVP SAID:
You're the one who wants to believe that Poe initialed some
"automatic" shells....YOU find the "reports" saying so. It's not up to
me to prove your make-believe case.
I've provided Poe's WC testimony above. And there's no mention of
"automatic" shells within that testimony. Obviously, you don't want to
believe anything put forth by the evil "Government", though, right?
Anyway, the facts are still the facts...and those FACTS do not include
ANY "automatic" bullet shells. None.
Sergeant Gerald Hill, who initially (incorrectly) thought the Tippit
shells were from an automatic weapon, tried to clear up the confusion
when he said this in 1986:
"I assumed that it was an automatic simply because we had found
all the hulls in one little general area. .... If you find a cluster
of shells, you have to assume that they were fired from an automatic."
-- Quote by Gerald Hill (Taken from Dale Myers' book, "With Malice";
Pages 260-261)
ROB SAID:
>>> "...but I'm sure the money you make to push the official theory will make it a tough assignment." <<<
DVP SAID:
Yeah, the evil Government hasn't got anything better to spend their
money on, so they hired a few of us "clueless" LNers to type
meaningless messages into a Google Groups JFK Assassination database,
to be seen by a whopping dozen or so people per day (at best).
For this I make $49,000 a year (dental insurance included too).
==========================================================
robcap...@netscape.com
Well since the WC could NEVER prove the pistol found on LHO was the
murder weapon (simple problem of the bullets in the deceased NOT
matching LHO's revolver) you question as no validity.
"Does it have an oversized barrel, Rob?"
Who knows, that was the whole point of asking if anyone had more
information on this revolver since the WC and the HSCA didn't find it
necessary to tell us.
robcap...@netscape.com
I have simply pointed out what two officers on the scene said, they
described a .32 automatic and a .38 automatic. I am simply wondering
what Ferrie needed with this pistol, and why the HSCA mentioned it but
did not offer any details.
YoHarvey
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Right. The HSCA is now guilty of coverup by exclusion. To these mega-
kooks, it's sinister because they didn't offer details. God help
America.
robcap...@netscape.com
> >>> "Does he [Rob The Mega-Kook] know that Barbara Davis saw the gunman, OSWALD, emptying a gun? (You don't empty a automatic.)" <<<
"Rob The Kook chooses to completely ignore the testimony of ALL THREE
eyewitnesses at the Tippit murder scene (B. Davis, V. Davis, and D.
Benavides) who EACH recovered shells on the ground and who EACH
watched with their own (individual) pairs of eyes as the killer dumped
shells from the Tippit murder weapon onto the ground on Tenth Street."
I choose to ignore them as they prove nothing in tying LHO to the
crime. Also, all three of these people would fail to ID the shells
they turned in when presented them at WC testimony.
"Here's an exchange I had with Robcap about this very issue on
November 2, 2007:
======================================================
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/a4c6818d6cdc7c89
> ROB SAID:
>
> >>> "Which witness said they saw the killer shaking out bullets? It could appear to be that way from a distance to a terrified witness as the bullets automatically eject, thus the term automatic." <<<
"DVP SAID:
Good God...you really ARE clueless re. the evidence, aren't you? (And
yet you're so POSITIVE that "LHO shot no one" on November 22nd. You're
Super-Pathetic!)"
Clueless, I'm not clueless of anything. For example I know Benavides,
and both Davis ladies did NOT ID the shells they turned in when shown
them at their testimony. How come? I know Poe and Barnes failed to
see their marks on them also, how come? I know a woman that was
forced to wake from a nap and had on obstructed view thought she saw a
man emptying a gun, but she is not sure. I know he shells found by
the Davis ladies are quite a ways away from where the man would have
emptied the revolver and were not found for hours after the shooting.
The only pathetic person is you as you believe things with no proof.
"Virginia Davis AND Barbara Davis saw Lee Oswald (UP CLOSE, within
just a few feet of their own bodies), and both Davis girls saw Oswald
dumping shells out of his gun as LHO cut across their yard."
If they saw him up close why did they say he had a black jacket on?
They also were not up close as there was a column in the way from
where they stood at the doorway.
"In both of the Davises' 11/22 affidavits, they mention the fact that
they saw a man crossing their yard "unloading his gun":"
This proves nothing as the shells found and ID'd as automatic were
near the body, not way over where the Davis ladies were.
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/bdavis.htm
>
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/vdavis.htm
>
> ~~~~~
>
> BARBARA DAVIS -- "I heard a shot and jumped up and heard another shot.
> I put on my shoes and went to the door and I saw this man walking
> across my front yard unloading a gun. .... When the police arrived, I
> showed one of them where I saw this man emptying his gun and we found
> a shell."
>
> VIRGINIA DAVIS -- "We heard a shot and then another shot and ran to
> the side door at Patton Street. I saw the boy cutting across our yard
> and he was unloading his gun. .... Jeanette {Barbara Davis} found a
> [sic] empty shell that the man had unloaded and gave it to the police.
> After the police had left, I found a [sic] empty shell in our yard."
I see no mention of LHO by name, and both ladies described his
clothing in a different way from what LHO was actually wearing.
> ~~~~~
"BTW, Domingo Benavides saw the killer (whom he later stated on CBS-TV
was positively LHO) dumping shells from his gun too. ....."
And he refused to ID LHO so what does that say?
> BENAVIDES (Via his WC session) -- "Then I seen the man turn and walk
> back to the sidewalk and go on the sidewalk and he walked maybe five
> foot and then kind of stalled. He didn't exactly stop. And he threw
> one shell and must have took five or six more steps and threw the
> other shell up, and then he kind of stepped up to a pretty good trot
> going around the corner."
None of this proves LHO was the shooter and that an automatic was not
used.
> ROB SAID:
>
> >>> "12 {Tippit witnesses} initially became two, and then one, as Benevides [sic] was very hesitant and never gave a firm, definitive ID." <<<
"DVP SAID:
Yes he did. Very definitively too (in front of an audience of millions
in June 1967):"
A day late and a dollar short. When it mattered most, he refused to
ID LHO.
I like how Dave doesn't add how I showed none of them were really
witnesses, how come?
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/1bdb7e56f0427853
"A couple of the above Tippit-murder witnesses don't fall into the
"Positive I.D. Of Oswald" category....but every one of them saw an
"Oswald-like" person with a gun either on 10th Street or on Patton
Avenue (approaching Jefferson Blvd.) on 11/22/63."
A couple? How about all of them?
"And the above-mentioned "baker's dozen" doesn't even count the Brocks
(Mary and Robert), who saw an Oz-like man passing through the Texaco
Station just after Tippit was shot, with Mary Brock positively
identifying the man she saw as Lee Harvey Oswald (via a January 1964
FBI Report re. Mary Brock's Nov. 22 observations, linked below):"
I love how Dave believes in eyewitnesses so much when he ignores 2/3s
of them in DP who said the shots came from the Grassy Knoll (of those
acutally asked this simple question). The final and most definitive
proof is the bullets in JDT did NOT match LHO's revolver. Game over.
Oh and by they way, none of the witness at the scene of JDT shooting
acutally positively ID'd LHO either. She saw an "Oz-like" man, big
deal, many people saw "Oz-like" men in the weeks leading up to the
assassination.
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/brock_m.htm
>
> So, as you can see, I've practically got "nothing"....right Mr. Kook?
>
> ROB SAID:
>
> >>> "Let's see some links on the verification of the gun being the {Tippit} murder weapon." <<<
>
> DVP SAID:
>
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/nicol.htm
>
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/cunningham2.htm
>
> MR. EISENBERG -- "Now, for the record, these cartridge cases were
> earlier identified as having been fired by the FBI in Commission
> Exhibit No. 143, the revolver believed to have been used to kill
> Officer Tippit. Also for the record, I obtained these cartridge cases,
> both Exhibit 595, which are test cases, and Exhibit 594, which are
> cases from the murder scene, from the FBI, and transmitted them
> directly to Mr. Nicol for his examination. Mr. Nicol, did you examine
> the cartridge cases in Exhibit 594 to determine whether they bad been
> fired from the weapon in which the cartridge cases in Exhibit 595 had
> been fired?"
>
> JOSEPH D. NICOL (Independent Firearms Expert from Illinois) -- "Yes,
> sir; I did."
>
> MR. EISENBERG -- "And can you give us your conclusions?"
>
> MR. NICOL -- "It is my opinion, based upon the similarity of class and
> individual characteristics, that the four cartridge cases in 594 were
> fired in the same weapon as produced the cartridge cases in 595."
>
"[Re. the bullets recovered from Tippit's body...]"
This is an out and out lie Dave, he is discussing cartridge cases, NOT
BULLETS! You are making the assumption about bullets. The cases could
have been left to frame LHO, but the bullets in JDT speak volumes and
they were NEVER TIED TO LHO'S REVOLVER!
> MR. NICOL -- "On specimen 602--I'm sorry--603, which I have designated
> as Q-502, I found sufficient individual characteristics to lead me to
> the conclusion that that projectile was fired in the same weapon
> {CE143, Oswald's revolver} that fired the projectiles in 606."
This is baloney too as this is all suspect. Initially the DPD said 602
(notice the slip) was the only bullet the DPD had from JDT, then when
Cunningham made a trip to Dallas he came back with three more
bullets. Where did they come from?
> MR. EISENBERG -- "That is to the exclusion of all other weapons?"
>
> MR. NICOL -- "Yes, sir."
>
> MR. EISENBERG -- "By the way, on the cartridge cases, that was also to
> the exclusion of all other weapons?"
>
> MR. NICOL -- "Correct."
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~
"CORTLANDT CUNNINGHAM (FBI) -- "As a result of my examination, it is
my opinion that those four cartridge eases, Commission Exhibit 594,
were fired in the revolver, Commission Exhibit 143, to the exclusion
of all other weapons.""
Only in Dave's twisted world does empty cartridge cases mean anything
when the bullets themselves CANNOT be proven to come from the same
revolver.
> ROB SAID:
>
> >>> "We know they substitued the casings, since they lacked the officer's initials he put there at the crime scene." <<<
>
> DVP SAID:
"Prove that the officer (Poe) put his initials on them at the crime
scene. You can't. Even Officer Poe HIMSELF said he couldn't be sure he
marked them. Why isn't HIS OWN WORD good enough for you kooks?"
I have proved this when he told FBI agent Odum two months after
testifying "he recalled marking these cases with a 'JMP'. Why would he
make this up? Take your own advice, listen to him.
> ROB SAID:
>
> >>> "I want those reports by those cops." <<<
>
"DVP SAID:
You're the one who wants to believe that Poe initialed some
"automatic" shells....YOU find the "reports" saying so. It's not up to
me to prove your make-believe case."
He initialed them with 'JMP' and and Barnes put a 'B' on them. They
have said this many times.
"I've provided Poe's WC testimony above. And there's no mention of
"automatic" shells within that testimony. Obviously, you don't want to
believe anything put forth by the evil "Government", though, right?"
And you are suprised by this? He told them what they wanted to hear,
he had a job to protect.
"Anyway, the facts are still the facts...and those FACTS do not
include ANY "automatic" bullet shells. None."
They were disposed of, but it doesn't explain why two officers
mentioned an automatic pistol being the murder weapon.
"Sergeant Gerald Hill, who initially (incorrectly) thought the Tippit
shells were from an automatic weapon, tried to clear up the confusion
when he said this in 1986:"
Sure Sgt. Hill with many years of police and military experience
couldn't tell a revolver shell from an automatic shell. I have a
bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you. I know you know NOTHING about
firearms so I'll let you in on this - they look very differently. It
would be impossible for anyone with years of experience to confuse the
two.
"I assumed that it was an automatic simply because we had found
all the hulls in one little general area. .... If you find a cluster
of shells, you have to assume that they were fired from an automatic."
-- Quote by Gerald Hill (Taken from Dale Myers' book, "With Malice";
Pages 260-261)"
This just shows the pressure he was under to lie, as he is making a
total fool of himself here. You go by the look of the shell casing,
not just how they are laying when you arrive. Pure crap.
I notice how DVP never mentions the other officer who said it was an
automatic pistol, you know the one who describes a man wearing very
different clothes than LHO. Here it is:
"Just minutes after a citizen first reported the murder on Tippit's
radio. Patrolman H.W. Summers in Dallas police unit number 221 (the
designation for the squad car) reported that an "eyeball witness to
the getaway man" had been located. The suspect was described as having
black wavy hair, wearing an Eisenhower jacket of light color, with
dark trousers and a white shirt. He was "apparently armed with a .32,
dark finish, automatic pistol," which he had in his right hand."
This sure doesn't sound like LHO to me, but a whacko like Dave is used
to believing in things with NO proof behind them.
> ROB SAID:
>
> >>> "...but I'm sure the money you make to push the official theory will make it a tough assignment." <<<
"DVP SAID:
Yeah, the evil Government hasn't got anything better to spend their
money on, so they hired a few of us "clueless" LNers to type
meaningless messages into a Google Groups JFK Assassination database,
to be seen by a whopping dozen or so people per day (at best). For
this I make $49,000 a year (dental insurance included too)."
Dave, I'm kidding with you, certainly they could find better people to
make their case. You are very bad at it and it obvious you are
distorting the truth all of the time. I would like to know what you
do to earn the $49,000 a year though.
robcap...@netscape.com
mega-kooks, it's sinister because they didn't offer details. God help
America."
You are the paranoid one, I am simply looking for more information.
You have taken a simple question and turned it into a giant sinister
plot. How deranged you are.
David Von Pein
>>> "This is an out and out lie Dave, he [Joseph D. Nicol] is discussing cartridge cases, NOT BULLETS!" <<<
Better look again, Mr. Moron. CE602-605 are the BULLETS, not the
shells, that were plucked from Tippit.
Why can't you get anything right? Even simple stuff like this:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0148b.htm
Nicol found one BULLET that he said could be linked positively to
Oswald's .38 revolver. (Not to mention the fact that all four shell
casings were linked to Oz's gun by Cunningham, Killion, Frazier, AND
Nicol too.)
Kooks who want Oswald to be innocent of Tippit's murder are the lowest
kind of evidence-skewing idiots. I have nothing but contempt for them.
robcap...@netscape.com
> >>> "This is an out and out lie Dave, he [Joseph D. Nicol] is discussing cartridge cases, NOT BULLETS!" <<<
"Better look again, Mr. Moron. CE602-605 are the BULLETS, not the
shells, that were plucked from Tippit."
Just did moron, and where does this paragraph, you know the one I was
responding to, menton 602-605?
> MR. NICOL -- "It is my opinion, based upon the similarity of class and
> individual characteristics, that the four cartridge cases in 594 were
> fired in the same weapon as produced the cartridge cases in 595."
Don't see it, and also the are discussing "cartridge cases" NOT
bullets. Learn the difference "Mr. Firearms Impaired."
"Why can't you get anything right?"
My question exactly, I would be outraged if the government used my tax
money on a wannabe like you. Then again, they pay a bunch for toilet
seats too.
"Even simple stuff like this:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0..."
Dave, I know what 602-605 are (one real bullet fragment and three
planted ones) but again I ask, where in the paragraph I responded to,
are these bullets mentioned? I think perhaps the issue is I read the
part in {} with the wrong paragraph. I thought it went with the one I
posted up top, but I think you meant it to lead into the next
paragraph. If so, my apologies.
"Nicol found one BULLET that he said could be linked positively to
Oswald's .38 revolver. (Not to mention the fact that all four shell
casings were linked to Oz's gun by Cunningham, Killion, Frazier, AND
Nicol too.)"
What did Frazier say about this one bullet?
"Kooks who want Oswald to be innocent of Tippit's murder are the
lowest kind of evidence-skewing idiots. I have nothing but contempt
for them."
Kooks who want Oswald to be guilty and refuse to admit there is NO
real evidence (meaning evidence that can be shown to have a real chain
of evidence) in the case against Oswald are the lowest idiots on the
planet. They degrade the principle of all things American, where each
citizen is supposed to think for themselves and question their
goverment. I have nothing but contempt for these robots.
David Von Pein
>>> "Dave, I know what 602-605 are (one real bullet fragment and three planted ones)..." <<<
Goodie! A kook is making shit up again! Wonderful to see!
Now, the kook thinks there is one "real" bullet and three "planted"
bullets.
I.E., a "planted" allegation that doesn't have a granule of proof to
support it, nor a molecule of actual evidence to back it up.
Gotta love them kooks. If they don't like the evidence....just say
it's been "planted", and all CT wishes come true.
Pathetic.
>>> "Where in the paragraph I responded to, are these bullets mentioned? I think perhaps the issue is I read the part in {} with the wrong paragraph. I thought it went with the one I posted up top, but I think you meant it to lead into the next paragraph. If so, my apologies." <<<
Hey, you got something right for once.
Apology accepted.
>>> "Kooks who want Oswald to be guilty and refuse to admit there is NO real evidence (meaning evidence that can be shown to have a real chain of evidence) in the case against Oswald are the lowest idiots on the planet." <<<
After getting one thing in a row correct, Rob's now back to getting
things wrong again and acting like an idiot. ~sigh~
>>> "They [the non-kooks of LN-ville] degrade the principle of all things American, where each citizen is supposed to think for themselves and question their government." <<<
In which of your CT Kookbooks is the above rule (or "principle")
spelled out?
>>> "I have nothing but contempt for these robots." <<<
Well, at least we have one thing in common -- utter contempt for one
another.
BTW, have you found any of those statements from Connally and the
"witnesses close by" saying that John Connally was hit "twice" (as you
claimed)?
robcap...@netscape.com
> >>> "Dave, I know what 602-605 are (one real bullet fragment and three planted ones)..." <<<
"Goodie! A kook is making shit up again! Wonderful to see!
Now, the kook thinks there is one "real" bullet and three "planted"
bullets.
I.E., a "planted" allegation that doesn't have a granule of proof to
support it, nor a molecule of actual evidence to back it up.
Gotta love them kooks. If they don't like the evidence....just say
it's been "planted", and all CT wishes come true."
Hey, I'm not the one that said they only had one bullet (602) from
JDT. That was the DPD that said that. I'm not the one who went on a
trip to Dallas and "found" three more bullets for testing. That was
Cunningham. You are totally delusional if you think this would have
been admitted as there is NO chain of evidence for these bullets.
"Pathetic."
It sure is, as our 35th President deserved better.
> >>> "Where in the paragraph I responded to, are these bullets mentioned? I think perhaps the issue is I read the part in {} with the wrong paragraph. I thought it went with the one I posted up top, but I think you meant it to lead into the next paragraph. If so, my apologies." <<<
>Hey, you got something right for once.
>
> Apology accepted.
> >>> "Kooks who want Oswald to be guilty and refuse to admit there is NO real evidence (meaning evidence that can be shown to have a real chain of evidence) in the case against Oswald are the lowest idiots on the planet." <<<
"After getting one thing in a row correct, Rob's now back to getting
things wrong again and acting like an idiot. ~sigh~"
Sorry, there had to be a clear chain of evidence to allow evidence
into court. That is the way it setup to prevent people from planting
or embellishing their case. It is too bad this didn't go to trial,
but I guess the conspirators knew this was going to be the case, so
they had LHO done in.
> >>> "They [the non-kooks of LN-ville] degrade the principle of all things American, where each citizen is supposed to think for themselves and question their government." <<<
"In which of your CT Kookbooks is the above rule (or "principle")
spelled out?"
I didn't learn this in a CT book, I learned it in my American history
classes in junior and regular high school. It is too bad you slept
through these classes.
> >>> "I have nothing but contempt for these robots." <<<
"Well, at least we have one thing in common -- utter contempt for one
another.
BTW, have you found any of those statements from Connally and the
"witnesses close by" saying that John Connally was hit "twice" (as you
claimed)?"
Dave, the SBT is impossible by every law of physics and gravity,
therefore, it is only common sense that JBC was hit by more than one
bullet. He did not say this publicly, but he did say he was NOT hit
by the same bullet as JFK. No wonder bullet, you have to have two
bullets that caused the chest and lung wounds, and one that broke his
wrist.
Time for sleep. Have a good night.
David Von Pein
>>> "Dave, the SBT is impossible by every law of physics and gravity, therefore, it is only common sense that JBC was hit by more than one bullet." <<<
Whether the SBT is true or untrue has nothing whatever to do with
whether JBC was hit by 1 or 2 (or 52) bullets. Why are you linking the
two things? They don't go together.
>>> "He [JBC] did not say this publicly, but he did say he was NOT hit by the same bullet as JFK." <<<
Which, as we all know, is pretty much worthless and meaningless
testimony coming from a man (John Connally) who wasn't even looking at
JFK when JFK was hit by bullet CE399. You're really reaching now.
>>> "...You have to have two bullets that caused [Connally's] chest and lung wounds, and one that broke his wrist." <<<
Goodie! The kook is making shit up again. Will he EVER stop doing this
(i.e., making shit up)? Knowing how these nutcases like Rob operate,
the answer to that is very likely "No".
Anyway, two bullets are certainly not required to account for all of
Connally's wounds. Rob, of course, probably realizes this fact too. He
just won't admit it.
Dr. Robert Shaw, on 11/22/63, said on Live TV (after describing all of
Governor Connally's injuries) that it was his opinion that all of
Connally's wounds were caused by "one" single bullet.
The WC determined that JBC was hit by just one bullet (CE399).
The HSCA (re)-determined that JBC was hit by just one bullet (CE399).
But "Robcap" knows better. He's got BETTER evidence than what the
liar-
filled and/or ignorant WC and HSCA relied on.
Right, Robert?
As I've said before, you are an LNer's dream come true. You are so
full
of make-believe evidence and never-could-have-happened garbage
relating to the murders of JFK and J.D. Tippit, you epitomize the
"Anybody But Oswald" Kook Brigade. You are a caricature. A joke.
And furthermore, you ought to be ashamed and embarrassed to put into
electronic print the unsupportable nonsense you ejaculate here
regularly.
But Rob's not embarrassed in the slightest. He's probably proud of the
"ABO" stance he supports. He's doing the righteous thing by mangling
and/or tossing out every last piece of evidence in BOTH the Kennedy
and Tippit murder cases.
What he's left with is the sound of his own voice reverberating in an
arena where NO EVIDENCE AT ALL remains with which to "solve" the case.
Or, to quote my favorite author once again (which never gets tiring,
due to the large amounts of common sense that come from the man's
yellow pad and pencil):
"The dreadful illogic and superficiality of the conspiracy
theorists' modus operandi has inevitably resulted in the following
situation: Though they have dedicated their existence to trying to
poke holes in the Warren Commission's findings, they have failed
abysmally to tell us (if the Warren Commission was wrong) what
actually did happen.
"In other words, other than blithely tossing out names, they
have failed to offer any credible evidence of who, if not Oswald,
killed Kennedy. Nor have they offered any credible evidence at all of
who the conspirators behind the assassination were.
"So after more than forty years, if we were to rely on these
silly people, we'd have an assassination without an assassin (since,
they assure us, Oswald didn't kill Kennedy), and a conspiracy without
conspirators. Not a simple achievement." -- Vincent T. Bugliosi; Page
982 of "Reclaiming History" (c.2007)
muc...@gmail.com
He-he, good post. The double standard is almost too obvious. When
inculpatory evidence (against LHO) is put forward, Rob always want to
invoke legal standards, but when it comes to exculpatory evidence, no
standard seems too low. The poor sap claims to have a degree in
history, btw.
robcap...@netscape.com
> >>> "Dave, the SBT is impossible by every law of physics and gravity, therefore, it is only common sense that JBC was hit by more than one bullet." <<<
"Whether the SBT is true or untrue has nothing whatever to do with
whether JBC was hit by 1 or 2 (or 52) bullets. Why are you linking the
two things? They don't go together."
Dave, my internet pen-pal, it has everything to do with it. IF the
SBT is not true, and anyone invoking CS&L knows it is not, then he has
to be hit with two bullets at the least simply because there is no
other bullet that was claimed to have gone into both men. They do go
together, as NO SBT equals two bullets, that is why they invented the
theory in the first place since they only had one bullet left to do
the 7 wounds.
> >>> "He [JBC] did not say this publicly, but he did say he was NOT hit by the same bullet as JFK." <<<
"Which, as we all know, is pretty much worthless and meaningless
testimony coming from a man (John Connally) who wasn't even looking at
JFK when JFK was hit by bullet CE399. You're really reaching now."
He heard a shot, turned to look, he thought JFK was hit, and he was
not hit himself. This is what he said. Sounds pretty convincing to
me.
> >>> "...You have to have two bullets that caused [Connally's] chest and lung wounds, and one that broke his wrist." <<<
"Goodie! The kook is making shit up again. Will he EVER stop doing
this (i.e., making shit up)? Knowing how these nutcases like Rob
operate, the answer to that is very likely "No"."
The only people who 'made things up' were on the Warren Commission and
it is called the Single Bullet Theory. It is amazing as a man who
believes this nonesense is so skeptical of things that are not
absurd.
"Anyway, two bullets are certainly not required to account for all of
Connally's wounds. Rob, of course, probably realizes this fact too. He
just won't admit it."
I realize no such thing since there is NO documented case of any other
bullet in all of history (from the time of gunpowder on) that behaved
like the "magic bullet", therefore, there is no proof the SBT is valid
in the least (there are many other reasons why too).
"Dr. Robert Shaw, on 11/22/63, said on Live TV (after describing all
of Governor Connally's injuries) that it was his opinion that all of
Connally's wounds were caused by "one" single bullet."
I discussed this earlier, NONE of the doctors treating JBC saw CE 399
until they had started their testimony so they were not aware this was
the bullet that was being claimed to have caused all the wounds. They
began to hedge and would NOT give firm opinions anymore that one
bullet caused all the wounds.
"The WC determined that JBC was hit by just one bullet (CE399). The
HSCA (re)-determined that JBC was hit by just one bullet (CE399)."
But "Robcap" knows better. He's got BETTER evidence than what the liar-
filled and/or ignorant WC and HSCA relied on.
Right, Robert?"
Not right as I said JBC said it was more than one bullet that hit him
in his descriptions of the event. Don't pin it on me. Who would know
better than the man hit?
"As I've said before, you are an LNer's dream come true. You are so
full of make-believe evidence and never-could-have-happened garbage
relating to the murders of JFK and J.D. Tippit, you epitomize the
"Anybody But Oswald" Kook Brigade. You are a caricature. A joke."
And as I have said before I am not an "Anbody but Oswald" person as I
have no interest in him being innocent or not, but I do have an
interest in what the physical evidence says. This evidence says LHO
shot no one on 11/22/63. You just can't deal with it, or more to the
point, you get satisfaction out of playing devil's advocate. You can
call me names all you want, it WON'T change the evidence to show LHO
was guilty. You have to learn to live with that or you'll have ulcers
in addition to a weak bladder.
"And furthermore, you ought to be ashamed and embarrassed to put into
electronic print the unsupportable nonsense you ejaculate here
regularly."
Why? I speak the truth, you are the one lying about all of the events
that took the life of our 35th President. You should be ashamed of
that and for NOT serving your country in anyway, including the truth
about JFK's death.
"But Rob's not embarrassed in the slightest. He's probably proud of
the "ABO" stance he supports. He's doing the righteous thing by
mangling and/or tossing out every last piece of evidence in BOTH the
Kennedy and Tippit murder cases."
Telling the truth often makes me proud.
"What he's left with is the sound of his own voice reverberating in an
arena where NO EVIDENCE AT ALL remains with which to "solve" the
case."
Wrong! NO "official" evidence remains, but there is plenty of other
evidence that does remain to solve the case with.
"Or, to quote my favorite author once again (which never gets tiring,
due to the large amounts of common sense that come from the man's
yellow pad and pencil):
"The dreadful illogic and superficiality of the conspiracy
theorists' modus operandi has inevitably resulted in the following
situation: Though they have dedicated their existence to trying to
poke holes in the Warren Commission's findings, they have failed
abysmally to tell us (if the Warren Commission was wrong) what
actually did happen."
One man's common sense is another man's lies. He is a liar
extraodinaire!
"In other words, other than blithely tossing out names, they
have failed to offer any credible evidence of who, if not Oswald,
killed Kennedy. Nor have they offered any credible evidence at all of
who the conspirators behind the assassination were."
Why doesn't he put forth real evidence instead of these ramblings?
"So after more than forty years, if we were to rely on these
silly people, we'd have an assassination without an assassin (since,
they assure us, Oswald didn't kill Kennedy), and a conspiracy without
conspirators. Not a simple achievement." -- Vincent T. Bugliosi; Page
982 of "Reclaiming History" (c.2007)"
The only silly people are those that support a theory with NO real
evidence and proof behind it.
David Von Pein
DVP SAID:
>>> "Whether the SBT is true or untrue has nothing whatever to do with whether JBC was hit by 1 or 2 (or 52) bullets. Why are you linking the two things? They don't go together." <<<
ROB THEN SAID (INCREDIBLY):
>>> "It has everything to do with it. IF the SBT is not true...then he [John Connally] has to be hit with two bullets at the least simply because there is no other bullet that was claimed to have gone into both men." <<<
DVP NOW SAYS:
All I can do at this point is stand here, mouth agape, and stare in
blank dismay at what was just written by this kook named Robert C.
Unbelievable.
ROB SAID:
>>> "They do go together, as NO SBT equals two bullets..." <<<
DVP SAYS:
But not necessarily TWO bullets that go into JBC.
Are you REALLY this ignorant?
robcap...@netscape.com
> DVP SAID:
>
> >>> "Whether the SBT is true or untrue has nothing whatever to do with whether JBC was hit by 1 or 2 (or 52) bullets. Why are you linking the two things? They don't go together." <<<
>
> ROB THEN SAID (INCREDIBLY):
>
> >>> "It has everything to do with it. IF the SBT is not true...then he [John Connally] has to be hit with two bullets at the least simply because there is no other bullet that was claimed to have gone into both men." <<<
>
"DVP NOW SAYS:
All I can do at this point is stand here, mouth agape, and stare in
blank dismay at what was just written by this kook named Robert C."
Of course this is all you can do as you have NO real evidence to
support your ridiculous theory.
"Unbelievable."
The SBT was "unbelievable" the day it was invented by Arlen Specter.
> ROB SAID:
>
> >>> "They do go together, as NO SBT equals two bullets..." <<<
"DVP SAYS:
But not necessarily TWO bullets that go into JBC.
Are you REALLY this ignorant?"
Dave, quite playing games. You have an UNPROVEN theory in the SBT so
quit acting like it is written in stone. JBC has described two
different events for his wounds.
David Von Pein
>>> "JBC has described two different events for his wounds." <<<
But never two different BULLETS having caused his wounds.
As usual, you're nuts.
robcap...@netscape.com
> >>> "JBC has described two different events for his wounds." <<<
"But never two different BULLETS having caused his wounds."
He sure did, as he NEVER said the bullet left his right nipple and HIT
him in the wrist did he? I don't think he did, at least not before
the WC and HSCA. Therefore, he had to be hit by a separate bullet in
the wrist. Just accept the truth Dave, it will help your bladder.
"As usual, you're nuts."
This coming from a man who actually BELIEVES the SBT to be true!!!
Priceless!! LOL!!
David Von Pein
>>> "This coming from a man who actually BELIEVES the SBT to be true!!!" <<<
It is true. Obviously so.
As VB has said (and he's right) --- "The [single-bullet] theory was so
obvious that a child could author it."
Allow me to once again "spoon-feed" (to borrow another term often
utilized by VB) an idiot (Rob) the facts regarding the SBT. A person
who has (supposedly) studied these basic facts surrounding the
shooting who still comes to the conclusion that the SBT is utterly
"impossible" is a complete moron. Simple as that:
RE-POST FROM MARCH 2007:
=================
Based on the official evidence in the John F. Kennedy murder case, all
of the following things are true:
1.) President John F. Kennedy and Texas Governor John B. Connally were
shot by rifle bullets in Dallas' Dealey Plaza on Friday, November 22,
1963.
2.) Lee Harvey Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle (Serial Number C2766)
was located inside a building which overlooked the assassination site
(the Texas School Book Depository) when JFK and JBC were being wounded
by gunfire.
3.) A nearly-whole bullet (Warren Commission Exhibit #399) was found
inside the hospital where JFK and JBC were taken after the shooting.
And CE399 was found in a location within the hospital where President
Kennedy was never located prior to the bullet being found by Darrell
Tomlinson. (Nor was JFK's stretcher ever in the area of the hospital
where Tomlinson discovered the bullet.)
4.) Bullet CE399 was positively fired from Lee Harvey Oswald's rifle.
5.) Bullet CE399, based on the above points in total, HAD to have been
inside Governor Connally's body on 11/22/63.
6.) A man who looked like Lee Harvey Oswald was seen firing a rifle at
the President's limousine from a southeast corner window on the 6th
Floor of the Book Depository Building. No other gunmen were seen
firing any weapons in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd.
7.) No bullets (or large bullet fragments) were found in the upper
back or neck of John Kennedy's body. And no significant damage was
found inside these areas of JFK's body either.
8.) No bullets (or large bullet fragments) were found inside the body
of Governor Connally after the shooting. The only bullet, anywhere,
that can possibly be connected with Connally's wounds is Bullet CE399.
9.) Given the point in time when both JFK and JBC were first hit by
rifle fire (based on the Abraham Zapruder Film), and given the known
location of Governor Connally's back (entrance) wound, and also taking
into account the individual points made above -- Bullet CE399 had no
choice but to have gone through the body of President Kennedy prior to
entering the back of John B. Connally.
===========================
#1 through #9 above add up to a logical, common-sense short
explanation to the events in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd, 1963
(excluding the head shot that killed President Kennedy).
The nine points above, in my common-sense view, make the Single-Bullet
Theory more than just a "theory" -- it's almost certainly the only
conceivable way that President John F. Kennedy and Texas Governor John
Connally were wounded on Elm Street in Dallas in 1963.
Any alternative theory that must replace the SBT would be a theory
that is replete with far more guesswork and unexplainable occurrences
than the Single-Bullet Theory possesses.
Such an alternative theory must include multiple disappearing bullets,
plus several "SBT"-like coincidences at the same time. Is that very
likely? Or logical? I say it is not.
The Single-Bullet Theory is based on the EVIDENCE in the actual John
F. Kennedy murder case, as investigated by the Commission assigned to
look into the assassination by President Lyndon Johnson.
And the SBT, in addition to being grounded in the known evidence
surrounding the case, is also based on a whole lot of regular,
ordinary common sense as well.
No "Anti-SBT" scenario has ever come close to matching the Warren
Commission's Single-Bullet Conclusion in the "Evidence" department.
Nor has any alternate theory come close to equalling the SBT in the
"Reasonable", "Workable", "Believable", and "Common Sense" categories
as well.
The Single-Bullet Theory FITS.
The Single-Bullet Theory WORKS.
The Single-Bullet Theory is RIGHT.
David Von Pein
March 2007
=====================================================
"Several factors make it clear that Kennedy and Connally WERE struck
by the same bullet. There's absolutely no evidence of the existence of
any separate bullet hitting Connally." -- Vincent T. Bugliosi; 1986
~~~~~~~~~~
"It's a straight line....it {the SBT} is the only way it COULD have
happened." -- Dale K. Myers; 2004
~~~~~~~~~~
"You call it the theory; I call it the conclusion; it was a theory
until we found the facts; that's why I refer to it as the Single-
Bullet Conclusion." -- Arlen Specter; 1965
=====================================================
ADDITIONAL "SBT"-RELATED ARTICLES AND INFORMATION:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/e06a29392572c072
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/8ee3ea6cfa4a58c9
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/b966c737213c07cd
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/bf3ae3c6c0993e13
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/bed05a055b2f4133
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/bb22792c022c5a2e
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/ed5fddebf5867baa
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0071a.htm
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/html/WH_Vol18_0055b.htm
http://jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/intro.htm
http://jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/models.htm
http://jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/concl.htm
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2kEh3Kgwhk0
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/sbt.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_bullet_theory
http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/Issues_and_evidence/Single-Bullet_theory/The_SBT.html
=====================================================
David Von Pein
REPLAY:
>>> "This coming from a man who actually BELIEVES the SBT to be true!!! Priceless!! LOL!!" <<<
========================================
"The Great Zapruder Film Hoax" -- TWENTY DOLLARS.
"Reclaiming History" -- THIRTY-TWO DOLLARS.
Watching a Kennedy conspiracy theorist fumble the ball time after time
-- PRICELESS.
-- David Von Pein; May 5, 2007
========================================
robcap...@netscape.com
> >>> "This coming from a man who actually BELIEVES the SBT to be true!!!" <<<
"It is true. Obviously so."
You are loony. To be true it has to be proven to be possible, and we
all know it is impossible to prove this theory is possible. You have
nothing.
"As VB has said (and he's right) --- "The [single-bullet] theory was
so obvious that a child could author it.""
One did, his name is Arlen Specter. Also "children" like Bugliosi and
Von Pein believe it.
"Allow me to once again "spoon-feed" (to borrow another term often
utilized by VB) an idiot (Rob) the facts regarding the SBT. A person
who has (supposedly) studied these basic facts surrounding the
shooting who still comes to the conclusion that the SBT is utterly
"impossible" is a complete moron."
I have studied them, that is why I say the SBT is totally impossible.
That and gool 'ole CS&L. Also, there are NO facts surrounding the SBT
as it is just a theory, it was NEVER proven to be accurate.
"Simple as that:
RE-POST FROM MARCH 2007:
=================
Based on the official evidence in the John F. Kennedy murder case, all
of the following things are true:"
Sure they are. Let's look and see if they really are "true" or not,
of course everyone has to decide for themself.
"1.) President John F. Kennedy and Texas Governor John B. Connally
were shot by rifle bullets in Dallas' Dealey Plaza on Friday, November
22, 1963."
So far, so good.
"2.) Lee Harvey Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle (Serial Number
C2766) was located inside a building which overlooked the
assassination site (the Texas School Book Depository) when JFK and JBC
were being wounded by gunfire."
Oh well, he is off track already. See it was NEVER PROVEN LHO ever
ordered, owned or fired the rifle found in the TSBD on 11/22/63
(C2766). True the rifle was discovered in the building, but it was
NOT PROVEN LHO brought the rifle into the building or that he ever
touched it. It was also NEVER tested to see if it had been fired
before.
"3.) A nearly-whole bullet (Warren Commission Exhibit #399) was found
inside the hospital where JFK and JBC were taken after the shooting.
And CE399 was found in a location within the hospital where President
Kennedy was never located prior to the bullet being found by Darrell
Tomlinson. (Nor was JFK's stretcher ever in the area of the hospital
where Tomlinson discovered the bullet.)"
This is all bogus. The bullet found by Tomlinson was very different
from the one presented to be the magic bullet later on. NONE of the
folks that viewed the bullet that was found said the one in the
National Archives was that bullet. Furthermore, Hoover, FBI agents
O'Neill and Siebert and Dr. Humes all thought the bullet found was
from JFK as he received cardiac massage and his back wound only
penetrated for an inch or two. Tomlinson NEVER said the bullet found
was on JBC's stretcher and JFK's could have been moved into the hall
in time for it to be the source. In all honesty, this has not been
thoroughly explored to know one way or another, but it is possible.
"4.) Bullet CE399 was positively fired from Lee Harvey Oswald's
rifle."
So what? CE399 was NEVER PROVEN to be inside JFK or JBC and it has NO
chain of evidence so it probably would NOT have been allowed to be
presented in court. Also, the bullet presented as CE399 is NOT the
bullet that was found by Tomlinson. Finally, there is NO proof LHO
ever owned a rifle let alone fired one on 11/22/63.
"5.) Bullet CE399, based on the above points in total, HAD to have
been inside Governor Connally's body on 11/22/63."
Wishful thinking? Too bad you CAN'T PROVE IT WAS INSIDE JBC or JFK,
huh?
"6.) A man who looked like Lee Harvey Oswald was seen firing a rifle
at the President's limousine from a southeast corner window on the 6th
Floor of the Book Depository Building. No other gunmen were seen
firing any weapons in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd."
No man who looked like LHO was seen by anyone. Another fabrication by
Dave. Other rifles were seen at the Grassy Knoll and the west window
of the TSBD.
"7.) No bullets (or large bullet fragments) were found in the upper
back or neck of John Kennedy's body. And no significant damage was
found inside these areas of JFK's body either."
How do you know? Because the autopsy report said so, that doesn't
mean fragments weren't found. I like how Dave doesn't mention that
JFK's back wound was too low and to the right to line up for the SBT,
and the small fact it DID NOT transverse his body (i.e. exit).
"8.) No bullets (or large bullet fragments) were found inside the body
of Governor Connally after the shooting. The only bullet, anywhere,
that can possibly be connected with Connally's wounds is Bullet
CE399."
How convenient, huh? How about the real bullet found by Tomlinson?
"9.) Given the point in time when both JFK and JBC were first hit by
rifle fire (based on the Abraham Zapruder Film), and given the known
location of Governor Connally's back (entrance) wound, and also taking
into account the individual points made above -- Bullet CE399 had no
choice but to have gone through the body of President Kennedy prior to
entering the back of John B. Connally."
This is total malarky. JFK's back wound had to be moved by Gerald
Ford up from the T-3 area to the T-1 area and moved to the left to
place it at the base of the neck. And the small detail of the real
wound NOT transversing the body (i.e. exiting) was NO problem for Ford
or Specter either as presto the NEW wound now had an exit point. We
also have Connally's testimony until he died saying he WAS NOT hit by
the same bullet as JFK, and the simple issue that he never said the
bullet exiting his right nipple ever hit his wrist. The bullet that
hit JBC in the back had such force it doubled the Gov. over, yet the M-
C was a low-to-medium velocity rifle, and it supposedly had gone
through JFK and broke his spine BEFORE hitting JBC (of course the WC
would alledge this bullet went through the neck and NEVER hit the
spine which is virtually impossible).
> ===========================
"#1 through #9 above add up to a logical, common-sense short
explanation to the events in Dealey Plaza on November 22nd, 1963
(excluding the head shot that killed President Kennedy)."
Too bad ONLY #1 is correct.
"The nine points above, in my common-sense view, make the Single-
Bullet Theory more than just a "theory" -- it's almost certainly the
only conceivable way that President John F. Kennedy and Texas Governor
John Connally were wounded on Elm Street in Dallas in 1963."
I guess "common sense" is Dave's code for falsehoods, huh? Sure, it
is so much more difficult to believe separate bullets hit JFK and
JBC. Your theory is full of crap and can NEVER be proven to be true.
"Any alternative theory that must replace the SBT would be a theory
that is replete with far more guesswork and unexplainable occurrences
than the Single-Bullet Theory possesses."
Sure, multiple gunmen and multiple bullets is so far-fetched when
compared to magic bullets, right? This bullet (WC's CE399) was really
magical as it was NOT the bullet found at Parkland Hospital on
11/22/63, but it just "poof" took the place of the one that was found.
Now that is some magic.
"Such an alternative theory must include multiple disappearing
bullets, plus several "SBT"-like coincidences at the same time. Is
that very likely? Or logical? I say it is not."
Who said they disappeared? We know of several as they were found and
tested and they did NOT match a Mannlicher-Carcano. This guy thinks a
multiple shooter scenario is so out of the question, but a bullet that
substitutes itself for the one actually found, that defies gravity and
all laws of physics, and refuses to give in to three bones it broke is
so believable. This is just some priceless stuff by Dave.
"The Single-Bullet Theory is based on the EVIDENCE in the actual John
F. Kennedy murder case, as investigated by the Commission assigned to
look into the assassination by President Lyndon Johnson."
What evidence is this again? Why do you have to move wounds and lie
about them transversing when they did NOT if it is based on evidence
and facts?
"And the SBT, in addition to being grounded in the known evidence
surrounding the case, is also based on a whole lot of regular,
ordinary common sense as well."
Remember reader, "common sense" equals falsehood in Dave's vernacular.
"No "Anti-SBT" scenario has ever come close to matching the Warren
Commission's Single-Bullet Conclusion in the "Evidence" department.
Nor has any alternate theory come close to equalling the SBT in the
"Reasonable", "Workable",
"Believable", and "Common Sense" categories as well."
Sure, multiple gunmen to kill a president is so out of the question.
Why make it too easy when we can use a guy who is horrible at shooting
a rifle (poor hand-eye coordination) in the first place, and then give
him one with a loose scope and a rusty firing pin, and then put him in
a location with severe angles, a heavy bolt to work, and just in case
he overcomes all of this, let's make sure a HUGE tree is in his line
of sight. Perfect. Let's do it.
"The Single-Bullet Theory FITS."
It fits most trash cans, that is where this crap belongs.
"The Single-Bullet Theory WORKS."
Only in fertile imaginations, in the real world it has NEVER been
duplicated or matched in all of history (since the introduction of
firearms) that I know of.
"The Single-Bullet Theory is RIGHT."
Only if you want to support a lie foisted on the American people by
the WC. In all other ways it is a TOTAL falsehood.
> =====================================================
""Several factors make it clear that Kennedy and Connally WERE struck
by the same bullet. There's absolutely no evidence of the existence of
any separate bullet hitting Connally." -- Vincent T. Bugliosi; 1986"
More reverse psychology here. Perhaps there is no proof of any other
bullet hitting JBC because they either didn't look for it, or
destroyed it when they found it.
> ~~~~~~~~~~
""It's a straight line....it {the SBT} is the only way it COULD have
happened." -- Dale K. Myers; 2004"
Hardly, the most logical way if for multiple gunmen as this is how the
military goes about killing important targets.
> ~~~~~~~~~~
" "You call it the theory; I call it the conclusion; it was a theory
until we found the facts; that's why I refer to it as the Single-
Bullet Conclusion." --
Arlen Specter; 1965"
What facts are these again Arlen? I love how this idiot is more
worried about the Patriots cheating then how the 35th President died.
More priceless stuff. When did he PROVE this theory again?
David Von Pein
>>> "Why do you have to move wounds and lie about them transversing when they did NOT if it is based on evidence and facts?" <<<
No wound was ever "moved", Mr. Idiotstick.
And nobody "lied" about Bullet CE399 "traversing" JFK's body either.
Hence, we have the following words being printed right there in JFK's
Nov. 1963 autopsy report (making the three autopsists who signed the
report, H,B,&F, the people who actually started the ball rolling
toward the obviously-true SBT):
"The missile contused the strap muscles of the right side of the
neck, damaged the trachea and made its exit through the anterior
surface of the neck. As far as can be ascertained this missile struck
no bony structures in its path through the body."
www.jfklancer.com/autopsyrpt.html
REPRISE:
>>> "Why do you have to move wounds..." <<<
Just one look at the photo below (CE903) demonstrates how big of a nut
"Robcap" truly is regarding the above remark about wounds being
"moved" (or even NEEDING to be "moved" to support the SBT; when, in
fact, "moving" the back wound UP TO THE NECK actually TOTALLY DESTROYS
any "SBT" trajectory; for some reason the kooks like Rob refuse to
recognize this obvious fact):
===================================
GERALD FORD AND THE SBT:
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/bf3ae3c6c0993e13
THE "SBT PERFECTION" OF CE903:
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/c65419db537d4abf
===================================
tomnln
No wonder you refuse to address evidence/testimony.
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:e85818d5-4749-4892...@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
David Von Pein
DVP SAID:
>>> "As VB has said (and he's right) --- "The [single-bullet] theory was so obvious that a child could author it"." <<<
ROB THE MEGA-KOOK THEN STATED:
>>> "One did, his name is Arlen Specter." <<<
DVP NOW SAYS TO THE KOOK:
Robby gets another one wrong. What a surprise. Specter wasn't the lone
"author" of the Single-Bullet Theory. .....
Via "Reclaiming History: The Assassination Of President John F.
Kennedy":
========================
"From the first moment that I heard that [Arlen] Specter had
come up with the single-bullet theory, it made very little sense to me
since the theory was so obvious that a child could author it.
"Since [the members of the WC staff] all knew that the bullet,
fired from Kennedy's right rear, had passed through soft tissue in
Kennedy's body on a straight line, and that Connally was seated to the
president's left front, the bullet, after emerging from Kennedy's
body, would have had to go on and hit Connally for the simple reason
it had nowhere else to go. How could it be that among many bright
lawyers earnestly focusing their minds on this issue, only Specter saw
it? ....
"When I asked [Norman Redlich on September 6, 2005] if, indeed,
Arlen Specter was the sole author of the single-bullet theory, his
exact words were, "No, we all came to this conclusion simultaneously."
When I asked him whom he meant by "we," he said, "Arlen, myself,
Howard Willens, David Belin, and Mel Eisenberg." ....
"I don't know about you folks, but I'm inclined to take what
Redlich told me to the bank. My sense is that Redlich, who by almost
all accounts worked harder on the case than anyone else, was a team
player only interested in doing his job well. ....
"If I have done a disservice to Specter in what I have written
above, I apologize to him. But I did give him an opportunity to
respond to this issue [via a letter sent to Specter on June 24, 2005],
and he declined." -- Vincent Bugliosi; Pages 302-304 of "RH" Endnotes
(c.2007)
========================
www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/3200858-post.html
www.google.com/group/Reclaiming-History/topics
========================
robcap...@netscape.com
> >>> "Why do you have to move wounds and lie about them transversing when they did NOT if it is based on evidence and facts?" <<<
"No wound was ever "moved", Mr. Idiotstick."
Really? Why did the death certificate list his back wound at the T-3
thoracic level and the autopsy moved it up to the T-1 level? Why did
Ford admit he made adjustments before he died?
"And nobody "lied" about Bullet CE399 "traversing" JFK's body either.
Hence, we have the following words being printed right there in JFK's
Nov. 1963 autopsy report (making the three autopsists who signed the
report, H,B,&F, the people who actually started the ball rolling
toward the obviously-true SBT):"
Of course they lied as they took a wound that did not transverse the
body, and was located down and to the right of the wound they claimed
was on JFK's body (at the base of the neck) and created a new one that
was higher, more to the left and did transverse the body. If this is
"not lying" I'd like to know what is then.
"The missile contused the strap muscles of the right side of the
neck, damaged the trachea and made its exit through the anterior
surface of the neck. As far as can be ascertained this missile struck
no bony structures in its path through the body."
An out and out lie as all who saw JFK's body said there was NO wound
at the base of the neck. It was lower and to the right of the back
and did NOT go in more than an inch or two. The autopsy report did
not agree with either set of doctors (Parkland Hospital and
prosectors) in many cases.
> www.jfklancer.com/autopsyrpt.html
"REPRISE:
> >>> "Why do you have to move wounds..." <<<
Just one look at the photo below (CE903) demonstrates how big of a nut
"Robcap" truly is regarding the above remark about wounds being
"moved" (or even NEEDING to be "moved" to support the SBT; when, in
fact, "moving" the back wound UP TO THE NECK actually TOTALLY DESTROYS
any "SBT" trajectory; for some reason the kooks like Rob refuse to
recognize this obvious fact):"
So EVERY person who actually saw JFK's body is completely wrong in
your mind because some photo (which is probably not even genuine)
shows something different? We are also supposed to disregard Ford's
clearing of the conscious when he admitted that he moved the wound
before his death too, right?
robcap...@netscape.com
> DVP SAID:
>
> >>> "As VB has said (and he's right) --- "The [single-bullet] theory was so obvious that a child could author it"." <<<
>
> ROB THE MEGA-KOOK THEN STATED:
>
> >>> "One did, his name is Arlen Specter." <<<
>
"DVP NOW SAYS TO THE KOOK:
Robby gets another one wrong. What a surprise. Specter wasn't the lone
"author" of the Single-Bullet Theory. ....."
He has been given credit for it for many years. He went from a lousy
junior lawyer to a lousy State Senator due to it. (I'm from
Pennsylvania originally so I would know)
So this is the great stuff that converted Palamara, huh? Vince has
discovere the loser Specter did NOT invent a phony and ridiculous
thoery all by himself!! Amazing work Bugman. Priceless!!!!