www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/93f44...

TONY MARSH SAID:

Bullshit.

About the only thing wrong with Bugliosi's 3D diagram depicting the
Single-Bullet Theory is that he's got JFK turned a little to his right
when Bullet CE399 hit Kennedy in the back...which I don't think is the
correct posture for President Kennedy at that time. And Dale Myers
doesn't think it's the correct position to have Kennedy in when he's
shot by the SBT bullet either, per Dale's third picture from the top
here:

http://jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/concl2b.htm

Bugliosi has JFK turned a little to the right, which is making the
bullet enter his upper back slightly too far to the RIGHT of its
actual entry location. But if we were to "straighten out" Kennedy in
VB's chart and make his shoulders almost perfectly parallel with the
back seat (which is the exact "parallel to the back seat" position
Dale Myers has used for his 3D animation, which, of course, is KEYED
to the Zapruder Film itself, making Dale's version the most accurate
version we could possibly hope for here in the real world), then the
bullet would strike Kennedy in the upper back in exactly the correct
location (IMO):

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc151/David_Von_Pein/MISCELLANEOUS...

Addendum regarding Bugliosi's SBT chart and VB's general SBT timeline
(taken from my review of "Reclaiming History"):

      "Mr. Bugliosi's Single-Bullet Theory timeline has me puzzled a
little bit. The artist rendering pictured below appears in the photo
section of VB's book, and shows the path of the "SBT" bullet from an
overhead viewpoint. And while I believe that Vince is 100% correct
about the SBT being an ironclad fact (as opposed to a mere "theory"),
this illustration must also be viewed with a grain of salt, given the
fact that VB is of the opinion that the SBT bullet struck the two
victims "somewhere between Z frames 210 and 222" of the Zapruder Film,
which is a 13-frame span on the film when both victims are completely
hidden from Zapruder's camera lens by a freeway sign on Elm Street
(except for frame 222, when Connally [but not Kennedy] can be seen
just after emerging from behind the sign).

Therefore, we can't possibly know for sure the exact positions that
President Kennedy and Governor Connally were in at Frame 210 (or even
in the following dozen or so frames that follow 210, for that matter),
because the darn sign is in the way.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc151/David_Von_Pein/MISCELLANEOUS...

Any specific Zapruder Film-based speculation about the SBT shot
occurring at (or just after) Z210 is also strange in another way too,
because frames 208 through 211 don't even exist on any high-quality
versions of the Zapruder Film, due to the fact that those four frames
were damaged by Life Magazine and removed from the film. Only poor-
quality first-generation copies include frames 208-211.

I, myself, believe beyond all reasonable doubt that the specific "SBT"
point-of-impact Zapruder Film frame can be established....and that
frame is almost certainly Z224 (and not "somewhere between Z frames
210 and 222", as Bugliosi says in his book on page 463).

Although, VB says in an endnote (on page 25 of the notes) that the SBT
shot occurs at "Z223-224"; so I'm not quite sure which exact Z-Film
frame Vince totally endorses, if any.

Plus, on pages 325 to 327 of the CD's endnotes, Bugliosi acknowledges
the very real possibility (via Dr. John Lattimer's 1994 "lapel bulge"
tests) that a single bullet could have passed through both Kennedy and
Connally at Z224.

Vince actually mentions a 3-frame range of Zapruder frames in this
"lapel" regard, which seems a little strange to me; but at least VB
admits the possibility of the bullet striking at the correct frame
(IMO) of Z224, when he says this on endnote page 325: "A bulging of
the right lapel of the governor's suit coat may pinpoint the moment
Governor Connally is hit to be at Z222–224".

Another oddity is that even though Vince supports a "Z223-Z224" and/or
a "Z222-Z224" SBT hit at various stages in the book's endnotes, in
other portions of the main text he also seems to be endorsing the
notion that Connally was reacting to already having been hit by a
gunshot as early as Z222, which I totally disagree with.

I can't detect any such Connally "reaction" at Z222 at all. The first
firm "reaction" on Connally's behalf comes later, at Z225, just after
having been struck at Z224. Again, that's in my own personal opinion
on the matter.

However, there's another indication in the book that VB advocates the
exact same frame for the SBT that I, too, endorse (Z224). That occurs
on page 40, when Vince says the second shot (the SBT shot) occurs "3.5
seconds" after the first shot which missed the limousine, a first shot
which, elsewhere in the book, VB says comes at Z-Film frame 160.*

And the only frame that is precisely "3.5" seconds after Z160 is Z224
(given the "round-off" mathematics that VB is utilizing on pages 40
and 41 and Zapruder's camera speed of 18.3 frames-per-second).

* = A "First-Shot Footnote" -- I completely agree with VB's "Z160
first shot" timing. However, I disagree with him on the exact scenario
of how bystander James Tague was wounded by this first bullet.

Vince thinks the probability is high that the Z160 missed shot hit the
concrete on Elm Street and then the bullet (or a portion thereof) went
on to strike yet another hunk of street pavement over on Main Street,
which resulted in a bullet fragment or concrete fragment slightly
injuring Tague's cheek. (See page 471.)

I just cannot quite believe such a scenario myself. I think it's much
more likely that Oswald's first shot struck a portion of the nearby
oak tree, with the bullet then probably fragmenting (at least
partially), sending the majority of the lead portion of the bullet out
to Main Street, resulting in Tague's wounding, while the metal jacket
of the missile possibly struck the pavement on Elm near JFK's car,
resulting in the "sparks" that a few witnesses reported observing.

But, of course, realistically, the only thing that can be done with
respect to any "missed" shot is to simply guess about what happened,
since no physical bullet was recovered with regard to the shot that
missed the limousine's victims.

Another possibility concerning Tague's injury is that he was struck by
a fragment of the bullet that hit JFK in the head. I, however, don't
like that theory much either, since that bullet would have probably
been pretty much spent and out of gas by the time it travelled the
many additional yards from the limousine to Main Street to meet
Tague. ....

Obviously, Bugliosi is simply placing on the table all potential "SBT"
possibilities throughout his immense publication. I, however, would
have preferred more consistency in this book with regard to the timing
of the SBT bullet strike.

But VB evidently feels that the precise "impact" frame cannot be
definitively established on the Zapruder Film for the SBT shot. But I
believe it can be established on the film, via the downward and
forward movement of Connally's right shoulder at exactly Z224. ....

But even with a bit of ambiguity in his SBT timeline, at least Mr.
Bugliosi knows (as do I) that a "Single-Bullet Theory" Z-Film frame
positively DOES exist somewhere within Zapruder's 26-second home
movie. ....

The exact moment when the controversial "SBT" bullet struck Kennedy
and Connally has been debated for many years, of course. Even the two
major inquiries into the assassination had differing views on this
matter, with the Warren Commission offering up a 15-frame range of Z-
Film frames when they said the single bullet struck the victims (Z210-
Z225).

But the HSCA placed the SBT at approx. Z190, which, by the way, is the
timing that was seemingly endorsed by Bugliosi at the TV Docu-Trial in
which he served as prosecutor in 1986; although I strongly suspect
that the reason for such a VB endorsement in '86 was due to the fact
that Bugliosi's main "SBT" witness/expert at the London trial (Cecil
Kirk) was a member of the HSCA, which itself endorsed the absurdly-
early Z190 SBT timeline.

So, as we can see from the pages of this book ["Reclaiming History:
The Assassination Of President John F. Kennedy"], VB has gotten closer
to the Z224 SBT hit in the intervening years.

Another thing that is worth mentioning here is the false accusation
made by various people over the years concerning Warren Commission
member Gerald Ford. Many conspiracists seem to think that Ford
attempted to "move" JFK's back wound up into the "neck" in order to
better accommodate the flight path of the SBT bullet.

But a person need only look at the picture shown below (CE903) to
easily see that any "moving" of JFK's upper-back wound up into the
"neck" would only serve to DESTROY the path and trajectory of the SBT.

Such a move certainly would not enhance the SBT's path at all, because
moving the wound up to the neck would result in the bullet exiting the
front of JFK's body in much too high of a location (rather than at the
tie knot, where the bullet did exit).

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc151/David_Von_Pein/MISCELLANEOUS...

.... It turns out that I disagree (for the most part) with Vince
Bugliosi with respect to the exact timing of the SBT, but certainly
not by very much; so I'm not inclined to call a 0.77-second difference
of opinion (the time interval between Z210 and Z224) a major or all-
important disagreement.

And, as I mentioned, there are references in this book that seem to
indicate VB's possible belief in a "Z223-Z224-Z225" SBT hit too (which
will no doubt have conspiracists attacking Bugliosi's credibility and
lack of consistency throughout the book on this "SBT timing" point,
which, indeed, appears to be warranted criticism when you read the
whole tome, plus the endnotes).

However, in my opinion, as stated previously, the most important point
is the fact that Bugliosi supports the SBT, regardless of exactly when
on the Z-Film the SBT is occurring. And this SBT support is due in
large part to plain common sense....because the sum total of all the
evidence in this case makes the Single-Bullet Theory a virtual
certainty.

Or, to use VB's own words (from page 482 of this book) -- "The
overwhelming evidence is that whenever Kennedy and Connally were hit,
or first reacted to being hit, they were both struck by the same
bullet"."

www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/3200860-post.html

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      "Regardless of what exact Z-Film frame the SBT equates to, the
point is: There IS a Z-Frame (somewhere on that film) that DOES equate
perfectly to the "SBT". There is no way there's NOT such a Z-Frame
given the totality of the evidence with respect to the initial
wounding of both victims." -- David Von Pein; May 23, 2005

www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/7360799fec7f549d

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