Debating The John F. Kennedy Assassination (Part 24)
David Von Pein
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SUBJECT -- The JFK Assassination: The Ongoing "Lone Assassin vs.
Conspiracy" Debate.
FEATURED TEXT -- Archived JFK Forum Messages From December 2005, May
2006, June 2006, October 2006, and November 2006.
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CTer (A CONSPIRACY THEORIST) -- You mean the paper bag which was not
photographed? You mean the paper bag which did not come from TSBD
paper? You mean the paper bag which was too short to hold a MC rifle?
You mean the paper bag which had no rifle indentations? You mean the
paper bag which had no oil residue?
DVP (DAVID VON PEIN) -- Pretty doggone sloppy of the "Let's Frame Lee
Harvey Oswald" crew, wasn't it? To be THAT careless with an important
piece of LHO-incriminating evidence like the brown paper bag.
"They" (i.e., the proverbial forever-unseen and always-unidentified
"plotters"/"henchmen"/"silly bumbling boobs") need to have that paper
bag linked to Oswald and his rifle, so they do all they can to make
sure it can NEVER be linked to LHO??? Is that what you're saying here?
Kinda sounds like it. A smart plan indeed, wasn't it?
But back here in the world of reality --- The prints on the bag (in
EXACTLY the places that perfectly corroborate Buell Wesley Frazier's
testimony of how Oswald carried a very similar-looking package into
the Book Depository on 11/22/63) provide ample proof that the bag was
Oswald's and that Oswald handled it that very same day.
Only a rabid CTer would add up the paper-bag evidence and come to the
conclusion that Oswald did NOT take a bag up to that sixth floor on
November 22nd.
But then, per the CTers, everything that could have POSSIBLY been
"faked" by the cops WAS positively faked (naturally). I'm still
wondering, though, if the bag was supposedly "planted", how the DPD
managed to get Oswald's prints on that bag? And in the PERFECT places
on the bag to match Wes Frazier's "it was cupped in his right hand"
testimony to boot.
Those plotters were amazing. They could fake anything it seems. But it
should make a CTer wonder why "they" failed to make the bag the right
size though....per CT beliefs, that is....not by the REAL
measurements, which reveal that the rifle (34.8 inches at its
lengthiest when broken down) could easily fit inside the bag (38
inches).
Conspiracy math must somehow have 38 being a SMALLER number than 34.8
I guess. Go figure. .....
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0255b.htm
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/bag.jpg
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/rifle.jpg
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/f5b95bb50b412e61
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CTer -- Multiple shooters from multiple positions, firing in-synch,
would cause confusion as to where shots were coming from, and
ultimately make it seem plausible they came from wherever would be
convenient.
DVP -- And just exactly WHY would the assassins want to "confuse"
everybody about the shot direction? Especially when they COULD fire
shots from ONLY the place where their patsy is supposed to be located
(the TSBD), thereby creating sounds from the only place they WANT or
NEED to have shots heard by witnesses?
Why needlessly complicate and "confuse"....when they could just DO IT
RIGHT to start with?
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CTer -- The limo was washed right after it arrived at Parkland. You
don't assume the bullets plus fragments could have been made to
"disappear" right there?
DVP -- Another level of CTer ignorance has been reached with the post
above. For, in order to believe in what this CTer is saying here
(i.e., all of the bullets that "replace" the SBT got swept up by the
"limo clean-up/cover-up" crew), we'd necessarily have to believe that
BOTH of the bullets that struck JFK in the neck and back (per the "2
bullets hit him but never went through him" scenario) just happened to
fall out of Kennedy while he was still in the limousine during the 5-
minute ride to the hospital...and then were conveniently picked up by
some conspirator. (Did Jackie dig two bullets out of her husband's
body during the ride to Parkland? Is she "in" on the cover-up too?)
Plus, of course, we'd also have to believe that the separate (CT)
bullet that struck Governor Connally (or maybe even two bullets, per
some theorists who think JBC was struck twice instead of just once)
also just happened to fall out of him too and into the limo to be
snatched up by a plotter.
Mighty, mighty convenient, wasn't it, to have EVERY bullet magically
fall out of the bodies, right there in the limo, in order to be easily
seen and recovered by only evil henchmen just after the shooting?
These conspirators who pulled off this plot/cover-up/Patsy scheme
should definitely have won the 1963 Academy Award for "Best Special
Effects In A Fictional Drama" -- because they certainly earned that
distinction.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/dd7ec49b344e2c13
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CTer -- Nobody saw LHO bring the rifle to work, appear on the sixth
floor, and shoot JFK.
DVP -- Would you really expect a person (who wants to kill a President
from his workplace) to waltz right on in to the building, fully-
assembled rifle in hand, and shout from the lunchroom -- "Hey guys,
lookie here, see this rifle? I'm gonna use it at noontime to shoot
JFK. Just wanted you to know. See ya."?
~LOL!~
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CTer -- The shell casings from the Tippit killing got changed. An
officer wrote his initials on them. Where did they go?
DVP -- That CTer KNOWS the shells "got changed" somehow. Amazing. And
just HOW did this "change" take place, I ponder? It was the DPD right?
They substituted the "real shells" with ones from Oswald's
revolver...right?
Did the DPD, prior to the Tippit murder, just happen to have a few
spent shells to use as the phony evidence here? Or did they fire four
shots from Oswald's gun after LHO was apprehended? Which way was it?
A definitive answer would be nice, since you're accusing the Dallas
Police Department of a rather heinous criminal act here of framing an
innocent man for first-degree murder. So something other than just
"They Got Changed" would be useful, don't you agree?
The truth of the matter is that the DPD policeman in question (J.M.
Poe) probably never did mark the Tippit bullet shells. He told
Detective James Leavelle he didn't recall marking them.
On pages 263 and 265 of Dale Myers' superb book on the J.D. Tippit
murder ("With Malice"), we find this information:
"Poe did not mark them {the two spent bullet shells}", Detective James
Leavelle said. "There was no reason to mark them. There is an evidence
bag that is marked with the offense number along with your initials.
The evidence goes to the crime lab where it is checked and returned to
the bag and kept there until trial. I have run hundreds through that
way with no trouble and have never been contested on it", says
Leavelle.
Leavelle continues: "I talked to Poe. He said he didn't remember
marking them. But, that is something we didn't do back then."
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/4d1790303e6fcc19
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CTer -- CE399 could have indeed come from near the top of the Dal-Tex
building.
DVP -- Sure, it could have (but only in a conspiracy-oriented world
that ignores these little facts):
1.) Bullet CE399 was traced to Oswald's rifle, which is a rifle that
was found in the TSBD very shortly after the assassination, not the
Dal-Tex.
2.) Three spent shells from Oswald's rifle were found in the TSBD, not
the Dal-Tex.
3.) Oswald was physically seen firing a rifle from the TSBD, not from
the Dal-Tex.
4.) Most of the witnesses heard shots from the TSBD, not the Dal-Tex.
5.) Police Officer Marrion Baker immediately ran into the TSBD, not
the Dal-Tex. (As far as I'm aware, not a single policeman or witness
or anyone ran into the Dal-Tex Building, expecting to find a shooter
there.)
6.) Jarman, Norman, and Williams heard the shooting taking place
directly above their fifth-floor window in the TSBD, not the Dal-Tex.
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CTer -- John Connally saw the President "slump" out of the corner of
his eye before he felt any impact.
DVP -- And then John Connally evidently lied about this ultra-
important fact for the rest of his life. Right?
Or: He simply FORGOT that he saw the President "slump" when he gave
his official testimony later to the WC and the HSCA? Is that correct?
And he also forgot about the "slump" remark whenever he talked about
his vivid recollections of the event on various JFK documentaries and
in TV interviews over the years. Right?
How on Earth could he NOT include this very critical "I Saw JFK
Slumping" remark in EVERY ONE of the many interviews he gave if it
were, in fact, true? Including in his under-oath statements to the WC,
where he is as clear as a bell regarding this point of seeing JFK vs.
not seeing him.....
"This almost sounds incredible, I am sure, since we were in the car
with them. But again I will repeat very briefly when what I believe to
be the shot first occurred. I turned to my right, which was away from
both of them, of course, and looked out and could see neither {JFK &
Jackie}, and then as I was turning to look into the back seat where I
would have seen both of them, I was hit, so I never completed the turn
at all, and I never saw either one of them after the firing started."
-- John B. Connally; 1964
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_j.htm
So....Governor Connally is either a liar, or he simply misspoke during
the bedside interview in late 1963 when he said "the President had
slumped". That latter option is much more likely to be true.
The "slump" remark was probably a combination of his own version of
what he saw mixed in with a little of his wife Nellie's version of
events. Because there's no way (no how) that he's going to forget
something as important as that....especially when you factor in his
detailed, NEVER-CHANGING testimony with respect to OTHER portions of
his account of the shooting. Such as:
"I was not hit by shot #1; then I was hit; I heard but was not hit by
the third shot; it felt like a balled-up fist hit me in the back; I
looked down and could immediately see that I was covered with blood; I
did not hear the shot that hit me; They're going to kill us all; Blood
and brain tissue from the head shot fell on us; I didn't notice
anything unusual in the crowd, just the general activity of people
waving". (Paraphrasing.)
All of the above comments were repeated (nearly verbatim) every time I
ever heard Governor Connally talk about the assassination. But the "he
slumped" remark was never repeated. Ever wonder why?
Was JBC a liar? Or was he merely ASSUMING (perhaps) the President had
"slumped", because he was of the OPINION that President Kennedy had
been struck by that first shot?
Food for thought.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/741a872f58796bfe
