The most recent edition of my 65-page John Birch Society Report which is based primarily upon first-time released FBI files and documents may be seen at:
(1) FBI Evaluations of Robert Welch and the John Birch Society including a brief introduction to the controversy over Robert Welch's book-length "private letter" entitled The Politician.
(2) FBI vs JBS on Internal Security Status of U.S.
(3) FBI vs JBS on Communist Infiltration of Clergy and Religious Institutions
(4) FBI vs JBS on Communists in the Department of Health, Education, Welfare
(6) FBI vs. JBS on Civil Rights Movement -- including Alan Stang's 1965 book, It's Very Simple, and, Highlander Folk School as an alleged "Communist Training School"
(7) FBI vs JBS on Persons JBS Claims To Be "Experts" on Communism
(includes discussion of Dan Smoot, W. Cleon Skousen, David Gumaer, Julia Brown, Lola Belle Holmes, among others
Aside from mis-representing his FBI background, Smoot's observations and conclusions about the civil rights movement and organizations like NAACP (which are identical to those circulated by the John Birch Society) are contradicted by sources both he and the Birch Society recommended as authoritative and reliable--including former CPUSA members who were FBI informants and whom subsequently became paid speakers for the John Birch Society! See my Smoot report for details.
my 20-page bibliography concerning anti-CFR and anti-Illuminati books, pamphlets, and articles since the beginning of the 20th century (copy available upon request)
my 57-page bibliography of academic theses and doctoral dissertations pertaining to the right-wing in the United States (copy available upon request)
> The most recent edition of my 65-page John Birch Society Report which > is based primarily upon first-time released FBI files and documents > may be seen at:
> (1) FBI Evaluations of Robert Welch and the John Birch Society > including a brief introduction to the controversy over Robert Welch's > book-length "private letter" entitled The Politician.
> (2) FBI vs JBS on Internal Security Status of U.S.
> (3) FBI vs JBS on Communist Infiltration of Clergy and Religious > Institutions
> (4) FBI vs JBS on Communists in the Department of Health, Education, > Welfare
> (6) FBI vs. JBS on Civil Rights Movement -- including Alan Stang's > 1965 book, It's Very Simple, and, Highlander Folk School as an alleged > "Communist Training School"
> (7) FBI vs JBS on Persons JBS Claims To Be "Experts" on Communism
> (includes discussion of Dan Smoot, W. Cleon Skousen, David Gumaer, > Julia Brown, Lola Belle Holmes, among others
> Aside from mis-representing his FBI background, Smoot's observations > and conclusions about the civil rights movement and organizations like > NAACP (which are identical to those circulated by the John Birch > Society) are contradicted by sources both he and the Birch Society > recommended as authoritative and reliable--including former CPUSA > members who were FBI informants and whom subsequently became paid > speakers for the John Birch Society! See my Smoot report for > details.
> my 20-page bibliography concerning anti-CFR and anti-Illuminati books, > pamphlets, and articles since the beginning of the 20th century (copy > available upon request)
> my 57-page bibliography of academic theses and doctoral dissertations > pertaining to the right-wing in the United States (copy available upon > request)
> Questions, criticisms, and comments may be directed to me at: > Ernie1...@aol.com
Tell us what you think about the Birchers and the assassination of JFK. I would be most interested in what is thought of H.L Hunt (richest man in the U.S.) and holder of JBS meetings in his home.
Curt: I'm not aware that H.L. Hunt "held JBS meetings in his home" or that he even supported the JBS. However, his son, Nelson Bunker Hunt, is on the JBS National Council.
I've seen no credible data regarding any JBS connection (as an organization) to the assassination of JFK.
However, some individual members/sympathizers of the JBS were involved in preparing and publishing the nasty "Wanted For Treason" flyer that appeared in Dallas and Robert Alan Surrey and Joseph Grinnan (JBS members) were involved in the famous anti-JFK newspaper ad "Welcome Mr. Kennedy" that was published in the Dallas Morning News on the day of JFK's assassination.
A lot of false or highly suspect data about this matter has been circulated by Harry J. Dean who claims he was an FBI "undercover agent" or informant within the Birch Society. However, Dean's assertions about his background are fabrications.
Recently, I received an FBI document which pertains to an inquiry about a column by James Horwitz published on page 2 of the 3/16/77 issue of the Las Virgenes (CA) Independent Valley News.
The column reported on their "exclusive interview" with Harry Dean during which he repeated his claims about his alleged association with the FBI as an undercover operative or informant from 1960-1965.
The Assistant Director in Charge of the FBI's Los Angeles field office (Robert E. Gebhardt) responded to an inquiry about Dean's assertions and he forwarded a copy of his 4/1/77 reply to James K. Coffin, the Publisher of the Las Virgenes Independent Valley News. You may obtain a copy of the column, the inquiry, and the reply by requesting FBI Los Angeles field office file 100-59001, serial #1258.
Here is the pertinent excerpt of Gebhardt's reply:
"In the interest of accuracy, I must advise you that Harry Dean has never been an undercover operative of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, has never been an informant of this Bureau, and has never been instructed to perform any act on behalf of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Furthermore, I can tell you that the FBI has never investigated the John Birch Society. I am bringing the above information your attention. You might consider furnishing this information to the readers of your column."
On May 16, 10:54 pm, curtjester1 <curtjest...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 16, 3:16 pm,ernie1241<ernie1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The most recent edition of my 65-page John Birch Society Report which > > is based primarily upon first-time released FBI files and documents > > may be seen at:
> > (1) FBI Evaluations of Robert Welch and the John Birch Society > > including a brief introduction to the controversy over Robert Welch's > > book-length "private letter" entitled The Politician.
> > (2) FBI vs JBS on Internal Security Status of U.S.
> > (3) FBI vs JBS on Communist Infiltration of Clergy and Religious > > Institutions
> > (4) FBI vs JBS on Communists in the Department of Health, Education, > > Welfare
> > (6) FBI vs. JBS on Civil Rights Movement -- including Alan Stang's > > 1965 book, It's Very Simple, and, Highlander Folk School as an alleged > > "Communist Training School"
> > (7) FBI vs JBS on Persons JBS Claims To Be "Experts" on Communism
> > (includes discussion of Dan Smoot, W. Cleon Skousen, David Gumaer, > > Julia Brown, Lola Belle Holmes, among others
> > Aside from mis-representing his FBI background, Smoot's observations > > and conclusions about the civil rights movement and organizations like > > NAACP (which are identical to those circulated by the John Birch > > Society) are contradicted by sources both he and the Birch Society > > recommended as authoritative and reliable--including former CPUSA > > members who were FBI informants and whom subsequently became paid > > speakers for the John Birch Society! See my Smoot report for > > details.
> > my 20-page bibliography concerning anti-CFR and anti-Illuminati books, > > pamphlets, and articles since the beginning of the 20th century (copy > > available upon request)
> > my 57-page bibliography of academic theses and doctoral dissertations > > pertaining to the right-wing in the United States (copy available upon > > request)
> > Questions, criticisms, and comments may be directed to me at: > > Ernie1...@aol.com
> Tell us what you think about the Birchers and the assassination of > JFK. I would be most interested in what is thought of H.L Hunt > (richest man in the U.S.) and holder of JBS meetings in his home.
On May 17, 10:35 am, ernie1241 <ernie1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Curt: I'm not aware that H.L. Hunt "held JBS meetings in his home" or > that he even supported the JBS. However, his son, Nelson Bunker Hunt, > is on the JBS National Council.
> I've seen no credible data regarding any JBS connection (as an > organization) to the assassination of JFK.
I believe you can receive corroboration from Madeleine Brown's book, LBJ's mistress, who knew him and hobnobbed with him. Jack Ruby had his literature on him when he was arrested for killing LHO. Ruby provided girls, gambling, and drugs to H.L. H.L was known by his top aide, Curington, to have seen Ruby, Oswald, Oswald's handler, DeMorenshildt, and H.L together on "various occasions." Here is a chapter on H.L. from a book that goes for about $40 on ebay.
> However, some individual members/sympathizers of the JBS were involved > in preparing and publishing the nasty "Wanted For Treason" flyer that > appeared in Dallas and Robert Alan Surrey and Joseph Grinnan (JBS > members) were involved in the famous anti-JFK newspaper ad "Welcome > Mr. Kennedy" that was published in the Dallas Morning News on the day > of JFK's assassination.
> A lot of false or highly suspect data about this matter has been > circulated by Harry J. Dean who claims he was an FBI "undercover > agent" or informant within the Birch Society. However, Dean's > assertions about his background are fabrications.
> Recently, I received an FBI document which pertains to an inquiry > about a column by James Horwitz published on page 2 of the 3/16/77 > issue of the Las Virgenes (CA) Independent Valley News.
> The column reported on their "exclusive interview" with Harry Dean > during which he repeated his claims about his alleged association with > the FBI as an undercover operative or informant from 1960-1965.
> The Assistant Director in Charge of the FBI's Los Angeles field office > (Robert E. Gebhardt) responded to an inquiry about Dean's assertions > and he forwarded a copy of his 4/1/77 reply to James K. Coffin, the > Publisher of the Las Virgenes Independent Valley News. You may obtain > a copy of the column, the inquiry, and the reply by requesting FBI Los > Angeles field office file 100-59001, serial #1258.
> Here is the pertinent excerpt of Gebhardt's reply:
> "In the interest of accuracy, I must advise you that Harry Dean has > never been an undercover operative of the Federal Bureau of > Investigation, has never been an informant of this Bureau, and has > never been instructed to perform any act on behalf of the Federal > Bureau of Investigation. Furthermore, I can tell you that the FBI has > never investigated the John Birch Society. I am bringing the above > information your attention. You might consider furnishing this > information to the readers of your column."
> On May 16, 10:54 pm, curtjester1 <curtjest...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Lots of people are FBI informants. Jack Ruby was because he didn't want other people coming in to his mob territory of illegal activities, and snitched them off.
JEH probably didn't care about the JBS because he already had an 'anti- communist' aura over him. He went after all those gremlins while the Mob ran roughshod over him. Basically Hoover only went after people that he could use, like President's, and people with lots of money like the Murchison's of Dallas who owned the Cowboys, and vacationed at his resort in California every year. I just did a piece where JEH was ordered to close down the anti-Cuba camps in Lake Ponchartrain, LA where they were making and practicing invasion plans against Castro and Cuba. JEH out of hatred and defiance just had one of the six camps closed. And as Gil is alluding to, hated the Kennedy's so much and had everything to lose by them, that he helped the conspirators not only kill him by complicity, also helped protect the conspirators by maneuvering the investigation through the top of his office to 'overlook' the evidence and the people that were under him, to make sure there was only one man guilty in the American Public's eye, LHO.
> > On May 16, 3:16 pm,ernie1241<ernie1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > The most recent edition of my 65-page John Birch Society Report which > > > is based primarily upon first-time released FBI files and documents > > > may be seen at:
> > > (1) FBI Evaluations of Robert Welch and the John Birch Society > > > including a brief introduction to the controversy over Robert Welch's > > > book-length "private letter" entitled The Politician.
> > > (2) FBI vs JBS on Internal Security Status of U.S.
> > > (3) FBI vs JBS on Communist Infiltration of Clergy and Religious > > > Institutions
> > > (4) FBI vs JBS on Communists in the Department of Health, Education, > > > Welfare
> > > (6) FBI vs. JBS on Civil Rights Movement -- including Alan Stang's > > > 1965 book, It's Very Simple, and, Highlander Folk School as an alleged > > > "Communist Training School"
> > > (7) FBI vs JBS on Persons JBS Claims To Be "Experts" on Communism
> > > (includes discussion of Dan Smoot, W. Cleon Skousen, David Gumaer, > > > Julia Brown, Lola Belle Holmes, among others
> > > Aside from mis-representing his FBI background, Smoot's observations > > > and conclusions about the civil rights movement and organizations like > > > NAACP (which are identical to those circulated by the John Birch > > > Society) are contradicted by sources both he and the Birch Society > > > recommended as authoritative and reliable--including former CPUSA > > > members who were FBI informants and whom subsequently became paid > > > speakers for the John Birch Society! See my Smoot report for > > > details.
> > > my 20-page bibliography concerning anti-CFR and anti-Illuminati books, > > > pamphlets, and articles since the beginning of the 20th century (copy > > > available upon request)
> > > my 57-page bibliography of academic theses and doctoral dissertations > > > pertaining to the right-wing in the United States (copy available upon > > > request)
> > > Questions, criticisms, and comments may be directed to me at: > > > Ernie1...@aol.com
> > Tell us what you think about the Birchers and the assassination of > > JFK. I would be most interested in what is thought of H.L Hunt > > (richest man in the U.S.) and holder of JBS meetings in his home.
Of course anything is "possible"...For example, I live about a mile from my city's airport. It's "possible" that as I type this reply to you, a Boeing 737 may crash into my home---but I don't operate on that assumption---nor do my neighbors.
The FBI is an institution. It has employed something like 50,000 people over the course of the past 50 years. It has MILLIONS of documents that are serialized not only in FBI files but also in the files of other Justice Department units as well as other government agencies. It is very hard to conceive of how someone (even if they wanted to) could comb through every document ever produced at the Bureau (and, moreover, cross-referenced in numerous separate files and discussed in other documents also filed/serialized somewhere) in an attempt to what? Edit the documents?
Much of YOUR knowledge about FBI illegal activity comes from meticulous research into FBI archives (i.e. those millions of documents you think may have been altered or "suppressed"?) as well as interviews with former FBI Assistant Directors and Section Chiefs and Supervisors. Why didn't they "suppress" all the embarrassing stuff which indisputably proves their illegal behavior and which became the basis of the Church Committee hearings and report?
Most parents know that they can't even get their kids to do what they're told. One wonders how a person controls the behavior of 6000+ FBI employees not to mention the employees at all the other agencies which received FBI reports and documents --- without anybody ever knowing?
You can FABRICATE any "possible" scenario you want...but it doesn't make it true or even plausible. Stick to verifiable FACTS. Otherwise you are a FICTION writer. We all love well-constructed stories about villains -- but, at some point, we must distinguish between factual and unsubstantiated assertions.
Finally: if your comments have any relation to my report on Harry Dean, I'd merely point out that a lot of Dean's remarks are self- evidently false as can be demonstrated by even the most cursory research into his own writings.
On May 17, 12:34 pm, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
Curt: I have no idea who Madeleine Brown is or what she bases her statements upon. Have you investigated her supporting documentation?
H.L. Hunt did enjoy gambling and he had a "health" fetish interest in unorthodox remedies-- but I've never seen any data suggesting that he was ever taking drugs -- by which I presume you mean illegal drugs?
Yes -- "lots of people" were FBI "informants" but many times, people who CLAIMED to have been an FBI "undercover agent" or "informant" were lying. I document this in my JBS report -- chapter 7 and also in my new report on Edgar Bundy (Church League of America).
Legitimate FBI informants were rated in terms of their reliability. Initially, they were on probationary status in order weed out those whose information was useless or non-credible. There are ways to establish who GENUINELY was an FBI informant -- and I suspect that someone like Harry Dean has never been rigorously questioned about his claims.
Your comments about J. Edgar Hoover and the JBS are not supported by any evidence I have seen. I have acquired more than 30,000 pages of FBI HQ and field office files on the JBS and its prominent members and sympathizers. In fact, in many instances, I am the ONLY person who has ever requested and received those documents --- so I can't imagine what your statements are based on. I suggest you read my JBS Report (65 pages). You will discover the attitude of senior FBI officials (including Hoover) about Robert Welch and the JBS. I cite numerous direct quotations from FBI reports and memos.
On May 17, 4:22 pm, curtjester1 <curtjest...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On May 17, 10:35 am,ernie1241<ernie1...@gmail.com> wrote:> Curt: I'm not aware that H.L. Hunt "held JBS meetings in his home" or > > that he even supported the JBS. However, his son, Nelson Bunker Hunt, > > is on the JBS National Council.
> > I've seen no credible data regarding any JBS connection (as an > > organization) to the assassination of JFK.
> I believe you can receive corroboration from Madeleine Brown's book, > LBJ's mistress, who knew him and hobnobbed with him. Jack Ruby had > his literature on him when he was arrested for killing LHO. Ruby > provided girls, gambling, and drugs to H.L. H.L was known by his top > aide, Curington, to have seen Ruby, Oswald, Oswald's handler, > DeMorenshildt, and H.L together on "various occasions." Here is a > chapter on H.L. from a book that goes for about $40 on ebay.
> > However, some individual members/sympathizers of the JBS were involved > > in preparing and publishing the nasty "Wanted For Treason" flyer that > > appeared in Dallas and Robert Alan Surrey and Joseph Grinnan (JBS > > members) were involved in the famous anti-JFK newspaper ad "Welcome > > Mr. Kennedy" that was published in the Dallas Morning News on the day > > of JFK's assassination.
> > A lot of false or highly suspect data about this matter has been > > circulated by Harry J. Dean who claims he was an FBI "undercover > > agent" or informant within the Birch Society. However, Dean's > > assertions about his background are fabrications.
> > Recently, I received an FBI document which pertains to an inquiry > > about a column by James Horwitz published on page 2 of the 3/16/77 > > issue of the Las Virgenes (CA) Independent Valley News.
> > The column reported on their "exclusive interview" with Harry Dean > > during which he repeated his claims about his alleged association with > > the FBI as an undercover operative or informant from 1960-1965.
> > The Assistant Director in Charge of the FBI's Los Angeles field office > > (Robert E. Gebhardt) responded to an inquiry about Dean's assertions > > and he forwarded a copy of his 4/1/77 reply to James K. Coffin, the > > Publisher of the Las Virgenes Independent Valley News. You may obtain > > a copy of the column, the inquiry, and the reply by requesting FBI Los > > Angeles field office file 100-59001, serial #1258.
> > Here is the pertinent excerpt of Gebhardt's reply:
> > "In the interest of accuracy, I must advise you that Harry Dean has > > never been an undercover operative of the Federal Bureau of > > Investigation, has never been an informant of this Bureau, and has > > never been instructed to perform any act on behalf of the Federal > > Bureau of Investigation. Furthermore, I can tell you that the FBI has > > never investigated the John Birch Society. I am bringing the above > > information your attention. You might consider furnishing this > > information to the readers of your column."
> > On May 16, 10:54 pm, curtjester1 <curtjest...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Lots of people are FBI informants. Jack Ruby was because he didn't > want other people coming in to his mob territory of illegal > activities, and snitched them off.
> JEH probably didn't care about the JBS because he already had an 'anti- > communist' aura over him. He went after all those gremlins while the > Mob ran roughshod over him. Basically Hoover only went after people > that he could use, like President's, and people with lots of money > like the Murchison's of Dallas who owned the Cowboys, and vacationed > at his resort in California every year. I just did a piece where JEH > was ordered to close down the anti-Cuba camps in Lake Ponchartrain, LA > where they were making and practicing invasion plans against Castro > and Cuba. JEH out of hatred and defiance just had one of the six > camps closed. And as Gil is alluding to, hated the Kennedy's so much > and had everything to lose by them, that he helped the conspirators > not only kill him by complicity, also helped protect the conspirators > by maneuvering the investigation through the top of his office to > 'overlook' the evidence and the people that were under him, to make > sure there was only one man guilty in the American Public's eye, LHO.
> CJ
> > > On May 16, 3:16 pm,ernie1241<ernie1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > The most recent edition of my 65-page John Birch Society Report which > > > > is based primarily upon first-time released FBI files and documents > > > > may be seen at:
> > > > (1) FBI Evaluations of Robert Welch and the John Birch Society > > > > including a brief introduction to the controversy over Robert Welch's > > > > book-length "private letter" entitled The Politician.
> > > > (2) FBI vs JBS on Internal Security Status of U.S.
> > > > (3) FBI vs JBS on Communist Infiltration of Clergy and Religious > > > > Institutions
> > > > (4) FBI vs JBS on Communists in the Department of Health, Education, > > > > Welfare
> > > > (6) FBI vs. JBS on Civil Rights Movement -- including Alan Stang's > > > > 1965 book, It's Very Simple, and, Highlander Folk School as an alleged > > > > "Communist Training School"
> > > > (7) FBI vs JBS on Persons JBS Claims To Be "Experts" on Communism
> > > > (includes discussion of Dan Smoot, W. Cleon Skousen, David Gumaer, > > > > Julia Brown, Lola Belle Holmes, among others
> > > > Aside from mis-representing his FBI background, Smoot's observations > > > > and conclusions about the civil rights movement and organizations like > > > > NAACP (which are identical to those circulated by the John Birch > > > > Society) are contradicted by sources both he and the Birch Society > > > > recommended as authoritative and reliable--including former CPUSA > > > > members who were FBI informants and whom subsequently became paid > > > > speakers for the John Birch Society! See my Smoot report for > > > > details.
> > > > my 20-page bibliography concerning anti-CFR and anti-Illuminati books, > > > > pamphlets, and articles since the beginning of the 20th century (copy > > > > available upon request)
> > > > my 57-page bibliography of academic theses and doctoral dissertations > > > > pertaining to the right-wing in the United States (copy available upon > > > > request)
> > > > Questions, criticisms, and comments may be directed to me at: > > > > Ernie1...@aol.com
> > > Tell us what you think about the Birchers and the assassination of > > > JFK. I would be most interested in what is thought of H.L Hunt > > > (richest man in the U.S.) and holder of JBS meetings in his home.
